Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Indian Hotels Company Limited earnings conference call for quarter 3, FY 2023–2024. On the call, we have with us Mr. Puneet Chhatwal, Managing Director and CEO, IHCL, and Mr. Giridhar Sanjeevi, EVP and CFO, IHCL. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then Zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Puneet Chhatwal. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our global conference call for Q3 2023-24. Indian Hotels delivers best-ever Q3. We are pleased to share that our record performance has continued in Q3, making this the seventh consecutive quarter of best ever performance for IHCL. Our standalone revenue grew 22% year-over-year to INR 1,323 crore. EBITDA grew 30% year-over-year to INR 601 crore, yielding EBITDA margin expansion of 290 basis points to 45.4%. Our consolidated revenue showcased a growth of 15% year-over-year to INR 2,004 crore and an EBITDA growth of 18% year-over-year to INR 772 crore. This resulted in EBITDA margin expansion of 100 basis points to 38.5%.
This further translated to an 18% growth in our bottom line to INR 452 crore at a PAT margin of 22.6% in the quarter. For nine months, 2023–2024, we achieved a milestone of INR 5,000 crore consolidated revenue. We continue to command a premium over the industry across all operating metrics and delivered robust performance across our brands with a demonstrated RevPAR growth year-on-year in the range of 12%–15%. We expect our double-digit revenue growth to continue in the next financial year as well, driven by three key dimensions of growth, namely: growth in our portfolio, growth in our new brands and businesses, and growth in our traditional business, enabled by effective asset management. Let me begin first with the portfolio growth.
We continue to demonstrate industry-leading growth with 28 hotels signed and 16 hotels opened on a year-to-date basis. This takes our pipeline to 85 hotels in all. This year also marks the momentous occasion of our reaching the 200 operating hotel milestone, which we recently opened in Jaisalmer in the state of Rajasthan. Our flagship Ginger Mumbai Airport is now open and had a stellar debut with an average occupancy of 80% and an average rate of over INR 6,500. The hotel has also been PBT positive from the very first month of operation. We will maintain this pace and are well placed to open at least 20 hotels in the current financial year, 2023-2024. We've already opened 16, so we expect to open 4 more in the months of February and March.
This is in line with the guidance that we had provided. In fact, going forward, in 2024, 2025, with 85 hotels in pipeline, the pace of openings is only going to increase. We target to open on an average 2 hotels every month or even higher. Our growth continues to be majorly asset-light, contributing to doubling of our management fee income from pre-COVID levels to stand at INR 319 crore for the first nine months of the fiscal year. This means mathematically, we could end very close to INR 450 crore of management fee income for the current financial year. Our strong footprint across 130+ locations makes us very well placed to capitalize on the sustained demand upcycle that the sector is witnessing. Number two, new and reimagined businesses.
We have been always communicating about new businesses that we started, as well as the reimagined businesses which were relaunched, like, the Ginger brand or TajSATS. With these businesses, as well as our asset-light growth, we have embarked on a journey of the diversification of our top line. Our new and reimagined brands, which include Ginger, Qmin, amã Stays & Trails, The Chambers, the TajSATS, together showcase a growth of 34% over the previous year in the last nine months. This stood at twice the pace of that of our traditional business, which also grew at 17% in the same period. We expect this growth to only accelerate, and our new businesses, as well as reimagined businesses, will continue to deliver 30% year-on-year growth going forward.
Ginger continues to showcase strong growth and profitability enabled by its Lean Luxe transformation at two-thirds of its portfolio under Lean Luxe today. Ginger should achieve a milestone of over INR 600 crore in brand revenues in the next financial year. amã Stays & Trails has continued to grow also and is well poised to reach a portfolio of 150 bungalows, including 100 in operation, by the end of the current financial year, and amã brand revenues are expected to also double in the next fiscal. Qmin will also achieve a milestone of INR 100 crore in its GMV in the current year, supported by its expansion to 34 Ginger hotels till date.
As we have mentioned in the previous calls, in the previous quarters, this is what we call the Qminization of Ginger, that the all-day dining of all Ginger hotels will be supported by the Qmin brand, in its dining facilities. TajSATS has continued its record performance with industry-leading revenues, industry-leading margins, and market share in this segment, and is well poised to cross INR 1,000 crore in revenue in the next financial year. We are committed to investing in our new brands and businesses across product, service, and digital innovations. In addition, we are working on and expect to launch two brands in the next six months.
This is also in line with the guidance we have given over the years, that once we achieve critical mass of at least 100 hotel portfolio in two of our brands, we will consider either reimagining some of our brands that we have had in the past or launching absolutely new. So with Taj at 105 and Ginger almost getting to 90 hotels, we are getting there, and we will share that information as and when we are ready to do so. Our new brands and businesses will help to support our asset-light initiatives, will help to support our margin expansion, and make us less volatile to the cyclicality of the business.
Moving on to the third important factor, that is effective asset management, which has been a key pillar of our strategy, and we continue to invest in our assets, which result in not like-for-like growth. Asset management has enabled significant growth in our big machines, and reinvesting smartly in our products has helped to drive premiums and to unlock value. In the past six years, we have invested close to INR 2,500 crore in capital expenditure on a cumulative basis. Our iconic Taj brand marked its 120 years of legacy this quarter, and Taj continues to be our backbone and the key revenue and EBITDA driver for us. The hotels which we invested in to upgrade from Vivanta to Taj are contributing positively to the brand's performance. The total contribution of these 24 hotels exceeded INR 1,200 crores in this fiscal.
A clear success story of effective asset management is that of the iconic Taj Mahal Hotel, New Delhi. A lot of us also know it more as Taj Mansingh, where we have completed completely renovated the hotel and results are viable in the, are visible, and the whole financial model has become viable, and it is all visible in its, in its financial performance. Moving on to the other three factors besides these success factors, is our strong balance sheet. Our strong balance sheet enables us further from a growth and resilience perspective. Our free cash flows continue to be healthy, and gross cash reserves at over INR 1,800 crore enables us to invest in RoCE accretive opportunities and will help us to shape our future. The second important factor here is customer loyalty and customer centricity.
Our journey on the Tata Neu loyalty platform continues to deliver results, with 24% of our enterprise revenues coming from loyalty members. Our loyalty base has continued to expand and stands at over 5.1 million members today. Till Tata Neu was launched, we had a base of 2.2, so we more than doubled in the last 20 months with the support of Tata Neu. This allows us not only to reach more customers and direct, directly engage with them, but also helps us to do tactical marketing campaigns in the shoulder periods. Our NPS scores have been on a continuous rise over the years, and our brands and hotels continue to be recognized at the global stage, most recently by Condé Nast and Travel and Leisure. Finally, Paathya, our ESG plus initiative.
We have achieved significant milestones so far in our core ethos of doing business the responsible way. We are on track to deliver our 2030 ESG targets. We recently inaugurated, like this week, on Monday, our 32nd Skill Training Center in Ekta Nagar, located in close proximity to the famed Statue of Unity. The center will offer courses in food and beverage service and front office with on-the-job training. Post-course completion, learners will be provided assistance for employment in the sector. In summary and in conclusion, we continue to focus on delivering robust performance on the back of healthy fundamentals and are well on track to achieve our Ahvaan 2025 targets. Thank you so much for your attention. We now open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles... The first question is from the line of Binay from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, team. Congratulations for very good set of numbers. My first question is on the double-digit revenue guidance that we've given for next year. In that, we do see that the new brands and Ginger are going to grow ahead of the core business. Could you tell us a little bit about the core business, and how are you looking at that in terms of ARR versus occupancy? Like, how much occupancy scope do you see in the double digit? Similarly, if you could also talk a little bit about the cost side. You know, ideally, this business has very high leverage. Is there any major cost items where you see inflationary pressures coming up?
Lastly, if you could just give a number for investments for next year, in terms of on the hotel side that you're looking at? Thanks.
Hi, Binay. Good morning, good morning. Thank you for your questions. I think, you're right. I think we have guided an overall revenue growth of double-digit next year. This is based on both the core business and the new businesses. I think the question that you're asking is that what is likely to be the RevPAR increase, actually. I think the way we look at RevPAR increases is that, number one, I think the macro tailwinds are very strong in terms of the whole demand supply. We have seen, there's no new capacity coming in all the key markets actually. We continue to focus on micromarket leadership in all these markets.
Secondly, if you look at our customer mix, actually 58% of our customer mix is from transient, actually, and these are the non-negotiated customers, which is where the maximum ability to charge revenues are there. So my own view is that, you know, you should wait for a specific guidance on RevPAR in the next couple of months, but nevertheless, I think it will be strong. And we will make sure that between the two, we will kind of drive double-digit growth. And the other point to note is that when you talk of RevPAR guidance, please bear in mind that that represents only about 45% of our business, actually. The rest of the business is all coming through F&B and all the new businesses.
Hence, I think when you look at, when you look at all of those, I think, I think we have every opportunity to sort of maximize. Our occupancies are strong. I think 76% is on standalone, even the consolidated, I mean, is also very strong, occupancy growth. So with these kind of occupancies, I think we'll continue to focus on maintaining our ARR position, because that flows through to the bottom.
Thanks for that, Giri. Also on the cost side, you know, if you could comment, because ideally there should be a lot of operating leverage, right, in the business now at these levels.
Yeah. We don't see any significant challenges in cost, actually. We had a bump up post the pandemic when some of those wage settlements and all happened. But otherwise, if you look at the cost increases, I think they're broadly in line with our expectations. We will continue to, of course, invest as part of these cost initiatives on digitization and on the new businesses, actually. But other than that, I don't see any particular challenge in relation to cost, Binay. We don't see anything, so therefore, the leverage will continue.
Lastly, just on the CapEx for next year, any number to give?
I think CapEx for next year, I think our guidance, guiding principle is that as far as renovation is concerned, we will be in line with our depreciation numbers, and on greenfield and there'll be greenfields on top. Between the two, I think it will probably be in the range of around INR 750–INR 800 gross.
Great. Great. Thanks for that. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumant Kumar from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, Puneet Chhatwal. Can you talk about the January month? How is the demand and in the key cities and for the Indian Hotels, and how is demand for February month and for March month?
So, Sumant, good morning. The demand continues to outpace supply. The January trend is very much in line with what we are seeing in Q3 in terms of top line growth. Business on the books is also strong, and the pickup that we are seeing is also equally good for the month of February. So that leaves us with March. The booking window has now increased. You know, the booking windows had become very short, but now we have a bit more visibility. So, to answer your question, till March, we are looking good. Before, we could only give guidance on, you know, like maximum a month or six weeks. But at the moment, all looks good. We also have IPL in, you know, end of March till May again this year.
So I think, all in all, the demand is very strong, supply remains constrained, and our, our portfolio, the investments that Giri just now spoke about, which is approximately 4%–5% of our top line in the existing plus, you know, that selective investments we do, like we have done for Ginger Santa Cruz, keeps us always very well positioned to capitalize on all possible opportunities. So, as an example, we recently invested in 4 villas in, amã in Goa. So on one hand, we upgraded the assets as those buildings were there. On the other hand, we strengthened the amã brand, and we'll continue to take these initiatives, and you will continue to see the reflection of those initiatives in the results that we deliver.
Okay. And in PPT, we have mentioned launch of new hotel brands for Tier Two, Tier Three cities. So is Ginger is not sufficient, or Ginger brand is not is not sufficient for Tier Two, Tier Three cities?
... Ginger brand is very good for every district capital of India, so we are going to accelerate the pace of growth in Ginger. But we want to maintain our brandscape as very pure. So a Ginger hotel cannot do a lot of banqueting and, you know, weddings, et cetera. So also in tier two, tier three cities, you need more like a full-service brand, and Taj, with the capital cost of Taj, is not ideal for every possible market. That's why we went from Taj to a multi-brand strategy and because of the heterogeneous nature of Indian market. And we feel now that we need a full-service brand and also in other segments. As India's story changes, as India has embarked on such a strategic GDP growth, there will be new needs and new wants that arise.
Now, instead of being reactive, we will be proactive and work so that we are rightly positioned to take advantage of the changes that will happen in the marketplace over the next three, four, five years, maybe.
This is going to be done in couple of years? What is the target, or how many hotels we are focusing on tier two, tier three cities, and what are the price points we are looking for?
So we are, Sumant, already present in a lot of tier two, tier three, tertiary markets, et cetera, depending on the brand. Our growth is almost, you know, we are signing, as we've signed this year already, 28 hotels in nine months. Last year, we had 36 hotels for the full year that we added to the pipeline. We see no change in the speed of growth. It's only the quality of growth that also changed from asset-heavy we went to asset-light. 76% of our portfolio is totally asset-light, and if we take the heavy part and take Ginger out of it, because we consciously took the decision to do operating leases for Ginger, so only 6% of our portfolio is on the company-owned side. So that kind of journey will continue further.
When we launch any brand, we will look at getting to a minimum of 50 hotels in that brand in a very short period of time. Otherwise, with 10, 15, 20 hotels in a brand, we will not launch. And whenever we launch a brand, the starting will be a minimum of a double-digit number before we launch.
Price point?
Price point will be somewhere close to a Vivanta, so I think we're looking at more like INR 8,000-9,000 average achieved rate positioning. So just below, just a little below the INR 10,000. Higher than Ginger, but lower than Taj. Somewhere in between, but a full-service price. See, Vivanta is upscale, more we want, stylish, you know, vibrant, and again, not something that caters to mass market. So we need a brand alongside Vivanta, which will help us cater to the mass market of 400-500 million Indians who are also not in metros, but in tier two and tier three cities.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Kumar from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Morning, gentlemen. Morning, Puneet Chhatwal. So first of all, going back to ARRs, so, I mean, ARRs are already very high, and you said that demand-supply is one positive factor-
I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. I would request you to kindly use your handset. Your audio is not clear.
Okay. Is it better now?
Thank you, sir.
Yes.
Yeah. Hi. Morning, morning, Puneet. Morning, Giri. So first question is around the ARRs. You know, just want to understand about the sustainability of ARRs. Of course, you know, demand-supply equation is favorable, but ARR is already very high. So, I mean, how do you see ARRs going forward? Do you think these ARR levels are sustainable, or do you see further growth in ARRs? And if ARRs stay at these levels, do you think the further growth will come in the occupancy levels? So how do you see the overall combination of ARRs plus occupancy?
See, I think someone asked me this question yesterday, and I think what has happened is that the sector has seen a reset in terms of rates. Rates did not move a lot for last 7, 8, 10 years. So if you took where the rates were 15 years ago and where they are today, then it's a marginal increase only. And you know, when you say that rates are already very high, I don't think that is in line with the STR reports and presentations. Yesterday, we saw one at an event at the Taj in Vikhroli, STR was presenting. You know, even Mumbai and Delhi are still very low compared to other cities in Asia-Pacific region. So, and not even at like, you know, anywhere close, not even at 70%-80% of what those comparable cities would be achieving.
With the Bharat Mandapam, with the Yashobhoomi in Delhi, with the addition of Jio, with very limited supply increase in Mumbai, I do not see any reason why the ability to charge would not be even higher than what you have seen till now. So not just inflation, but rather even a premium. And we also feel that we are able to charge more because of our effective asset management initiatives that we have been putting in place for last 5, 6 years, the INR 2,500 crore investment that I spoke about. So our ARRs in Taj Mansingh or Taj Mahal, Delhi, have more or less doubled.
It's not just because of G20, it's because of the comprehensive brand management initiatives that we undertook, the room sizes that we increased, the number of room count that we brought down, the new facilities that we added, all that also leads to the premiumization of the product. The Lean Luxe Ginger, when we say two-thirds of the portfolio has become Lean Luxe, it starts showing in the ARR. So all that investment that is going in, also the all-day dining, getting streamlined with Qmin, increases your ability to charge. So I think we still have a long way to go, especially as demand will continue to outpace supply. Supply growth cannot come in suddenly. There is a reality of a marketplace.
It takes time to build hotels, and all that was under construction is getting completed, but not new supply is going to get added at the speed that it got added, let's say, in, you know, 2010– 2015 or 2016.
Right. And then, about your revenue growth guidance, you said the double-digit revenue growth. So basically, would you mind breaking this growth, please? Because, I mean, I can see that room inventory itself is growing by about 10% next year, in the next financial year. So, this top line growth, would it be more mainly driven from ARRs or occupancy levels, or how do you see? I mean, if you could please help to understand that.
Yeah, as Giri mentioned, so firstly, it's a very good observation that 10% may just come in the terms of inventory. But that cannot be consolidated on the top line because most of it is coming through management fee business. So only the management fees get consolidated. So it has to be driven by ARR, occupancy, and as Giri mentioned, 50%+ is non-rooms revenue. And how we optimize the potential through asset management on those spaces also will play a very important role. So you would see in the presentation what has happened in Taj Mahal Delhi, how the top line has grown. It has been relaunched. Now we are going to relaunch in the next few weeks, we have opened, but not officially launched, the Usha Kiran in Gwalior.
We are also, you know, launching officially the Ginger Mumbai, Santa Cruz on the eighth of February, which is less than a week from now. So all these activities and many other operating leases that will be opening will help support the growth. And towards the end of the year, we'll also be opening an airport hotel in Cochin. That is our own property. So all this will add up to not like for like growth and through management contracts and the normal increase in food and beverage driven business as well as through the rates and occupancy. So it's in all metrics, we expect growth. I don't expect any metric to slow down.
Right. Right. On the cost side, your employee costs, I mean, just want to understand, you have so—you have shown a significant efficiency gains. I mean, you know, in the last, in the third quarter last year, your employee cost was about 25.2% of your sales, and which has come down to 23.9. So almost 1.3 point gain. Do we see—as we grow, do we see further efficiency gains in your employee costs, or was there any, was there anything one-off in this time?
There is no one-off. I think it's what you're saying is that as Q3 is the strongest quarter, there, some of the percentages look more efficient than they look in Q2, for example. So sequentially, the picture would look different, but, I think, we are at a very good optimized level, in terms of the costs, whether it's employees or it's raw material or it's other costs. And in fact, as we have guided in the last quarter, we are spending more money, and also Giri mentioned just now, on our new businesses, newly reimagined business-
I'm sorry, sir, your audio is not audible on the management's line. Ladies and gentlemen, the management's line has been disconnected. Kindly stay connected while we try to reconnect them. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding. The management's line has been connected. Over to you, sir.
Sorry, there was some technical glitch, but outside the control of Indian Hotels. No, I think the costs show an optimized level in quarter three being the best quarter. In quarter two, they don't look as good. But if you take an averaging through the year, I think costs at all levels have been optimized. They will always be depending on revenue, at what level of revenue we are. There could be a further marginal decrease, but generally speaking, we have been very focused on all our cost initiatives from pre-COVID, when we had announced the Aspiration 2022. So I think we are standing at a good level, at a healthy level, given the kind of brands we have, with Taj still being the real backbone and a luxury brand, it has a different kind of a cost structure.
Right. Finally, my last question, I'm referring to slide number 63, which is actually very interesting, where you have shown the occupancy levels and the performance versus previous year for different brands. I think in that, just want to understand a bit, you know, that under Taj brand, you know, occupancy levels for the overall business and leisure was up, Palaces was flat. And I assume that Palaces will have a significant contribution from inbound international tourism. So how do you see the performance of Palaces in the context of the recovery in inbound international tourism? And similarly, in Vivanta, you're showing 4% decline in your leisure occupancy levels.
Do you see a kind of a change in the consumer behavior, where people are actually moving to Taj, taking a notch up? Because Taj leisure occupancy level is 5% up. So basically, just want, just want to understand this slide a bit. If you could please help.
It's a good observation, but don't only look at occupancy. Go a little to the right, and you'll see there is a 24% increase in rate, right? So it has gone to INR 55,000, is the average achieved rate, so in the third quarter. And, occupancy levels obviously will improve further as the foreign tourist arrivals increase and go back to the pre-COVID level. But Palaces, we have to maintain. We don't take any and every kind of business in a palace proposition, because maintenance of Palaces could be very expensive, right? So in order to offer that world-class experience, which nobody else in the world has the capability to offer, we cannot just look at the occupancy level. That's number one.
Number 2, this chart is a proof of what I was saying, that we upgraded 24 hotels from Vivanta branding to Taj. So there, some of the leisure properties have been repositioned, and that's why it is showing a marginal decline, because some of the trophy assets over the years have moved back up to the Taj positioning. We see no change. Actually, the leisure demand is on the up. It's going to rise further. And also when you see in SeleQtions, it is really the Taj Ciudad Goa, which you know, the part was the convention center, which we have rebranded as Horizon, and the old part is rebranded as Taj Heritage. So that has moved from SeleQtions to also Taj, and to better yield, as Taj is the strongest brand that we have.
The owners were justified in asking for Taj, as the property had been fully renovated. So these things will keep happening. Important is that Taj produced an average rate close to INR 18,000, and at a 75% occupancy. That is the key messaging, as long as our focus is very clear that it has been always making Taj more pure and more significant, and not just our crown, but the crown of the nation.
But then, sorry, going to ask you, I mean, where you have shown SeleQtions, I can see that-
I am sorry to interrupt, sir. I would request you to kindly rejoin the queue for follow-up questions.
Sure, sure, sure.
Thank you so much, sir. The next question is from the line of Prateek from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, everyone. So my first question is on your number of hotels. So we talked about, like, going to 300 hotels, soon. So how do you see this presence theoretically in terms of number of large cities in India where you want your presence, in terms of number of hotels across brands? I mean, these 300 hotels can theoretically grow to, like, what number, maybe 10 years down the line?
Good question, Prateek. This number will keep growing. This is not that it's 300, and it's the end of the story. That was the guidance we gave for the current business plan. When we have the next capital market day, we'll give the further guidance. We should achieve the 300 number at least one year in advance of our 2025-26. But especially the growth with the Ginger brand and other brands, Vivanta, SeleQtions, and whatever new we will launch, should put us on a growth mode in perpetuity. So if we say 85 hotels are in the pipeline, and even if we were opening 2 hotels a month, so next 4 years, without signing any new properties, the next 3.5 years we could go on for opening 2+ hotels every month.
There will be some conversion opportunities that will come. There will be some other inorganic growth opportunities that will come, and there are obviously new signings that will come. I think that will keep taking this portfolio further up, and we will provide that guidance. We have very ambitious targets, especially with the Ginger brand and the success that we have seen with the first two months of the operation of Ginger Santa Cruz.
Given the size of India, Prateek, I think the opportunities are immense. You know, you know, we have gone to Tawang as an example. You know, these are all virgin territories we have gone to. New itineraries have been created. All these have happened because, one, the growth of India, infrastructure development and our presence everywhere. So I think given the size of India, I think, the opportunities for growth cannot be constrained.
... Sure. My second question is on your timelines for launch in like the recently talked about popular destinations like Lakshadweep and Ayodhya. You have two in Lakshadweep and three in Ayodhya now. So what are the timelines for launch of hotels in these locations?
Ayodhya will, the first hotel should open in less than 12 months. It's a brownfield site where the third floor construction is already finished. We are also looking at homestay opportunities, large homestay opportunities in Ayodhya. The Vivanta and Ginger combo hotel will take another 20 months to open. That is also well underway in terms of development. Lakshadweep will take longer because of the nature of the development. It's not just building a hotel, it's developing two islands, the islands of Suheli and Kadmat. So that would take anything between 3–5 years, depending on when we get the planning permission, the access, the weather, the, you know, all the things that are beyond our control. So depending on all that, our ambition and aspiration would be to do it in 3 years time.
But islands like this, which are remotely connected, could easily take longer than we think.
On your Sea Rock, so you have given, like, INR 700-800 crore CapEx guidance. So, do you expect any CapEx going into Sea Rock also next year? As you said, like some improv,
Pratik, as we have guided, we will try to get a strategic partner, and everybody's knocking at our doors. Whether we have that from within the group or outside, we will not be... We'll keep the majority, but we have no intention of spending further INR 800 crore of our own, from our own cash reserves. But definitely we want to make this as the icon of India, as the, as the second gateway after the Gateway in Colaba.
On pricing on Ginger Airport Hotel, you talked about INR 6,500. It seems lower than what, like we anticipated, like INR 7,000 range. So,
Prateek, it's the first two months it's a launch. We expect it to be 7,500 also. So it's a-- give it 100 days. The first 100 days, we cannot have full hotel fully occupied and the rate also at the full. This would be, you know, it's just we have to tread it carefully, get the base right, and then get to the stabilized rate that we have aspired for.
And lastly, on a manpower per room, that number seems to be creeping up every quarter, like, probably is like near pre-COVID levels, across brands. So, while the, and because of very high revenues, the percentage basis, it is looking better, but, the manpower per room seems to have, like, normalized now. Is that right reading?
See, I think Prateek, Puneet had to step out for an interview, but I think the point to note is that the increase in prices has to be justified with the asset management initiatives on CapEx, as well as the service quality levels, actually. All of these have to come together to make sure it's a combined proposition. Yes, it is, we have to say palaces, for instance, has come near to the 3.14 as an example. But I think we will continue to watch this. It, you know, I think we will. Our overall efficiency, look at the increase in revenues, 43% increase in revenues, and yet the manpower ratios are just about there, slightly lower than the pre-pandemic level. So hence, I think that, that's more than fair, Prateek, actually.
Sure. Thank you, Satya. Those are my questions.
We'll continue to invest in digitization and other initiatives which are anyway ongoing. So I think, so that will continue. Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Karan Khanna from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, given the swift pickup in occupancy at Ginger Mumbai, do you have plans of adding more rooms or coming up with another hotel nearby? And as a follow-up, your new businesses continue to do exceedingly well, so what would your expectation of revenue and EBITDA share for these businesses be, say, in FY 2026?
Yeah. So I think as far as Ginger Mumbai is concerned, yes, the occupancies have gone up, but the full inventory is not yet up. It should open up for the next, a few days, actually. It goes up to 271 rooms. I think as opposed to, I think, about 260 or so, which is in operation at this point of time. I think, it's been a great story there in terms of, a fantastic proposition, great value, new age banquets, and all of those are working. And the beauty of this launch is that it has come without any cannibalization from our neighboring properties, whether it is Taj Santacruz or whether it is neighboring Gingers, actually. It just shows the power of a good launch as well as the strength of the catchment, actually.
I think, are we planning new hotels in that area? At this point of time, nothing else, actually. But really speaking, I think airport properties seems to be a very strong value proposition, so therefore our plans in terms of, you know, Cochin and Bombay and other places will continue. As far as the new business is concerned, it is growing at 30%+. So that's what we have guided, actually. So Ginger, for instance, we have said next year could be INR 600 crores+. I think amã and Qmin, what is happening with amã and Qmin is that the Qmin is getting integrated into the brand top line itself. And amãs are yet building up now.
At this point of time, we only collect the fees, as you know, except for the four amã, four, six amã that we have, which are on our own balance sheet, and that is expected to go up to 15 or so. In terms of other new businesses, TajSATS will do well. I think next year we have guided to about INR 1,000 crore plus, actually. So that should do well, actually. So I think, I think it will... You know, if you see, if you see what has happened in terms of the revenue share contribution and the EBITDA contribution of these of the new businesses, that's gone up already significantly. I think it's gone up, I think the EBITDA share has gone up to some 24%....
I think, from 16% in 2020, and the revenue share has gone up from 10%– 17%, actually. I think, these are very significant numbers, and this will go up, actually. This will 100% go up as we, as we continue to do this and we launch new brand, brands as well, actually.
Sure. So, Giri, just my second question and something that I spoke with Puneet yesterday at the Horwath yesterday event as well. So given the continued record performance that we're seeing across our most hoteliers, this is likely to induce more supply and competition in the industry as per typical capital cycles. So how do you see the performance of the industry 3-5 years out, where FY 25 is, cannot be disputed, but say 26–28, and more supply starts kicking in? And just a follow-up to that, if you look at the domestic air passenger traffic data, that's already crossed pre-COVID numbers. Now, our hotel occupancy are still not moving in tandem with this.
Now, if you look at the Horwath data that was shared yesterday, the supply is expected to grow at 8% CAGR in the next 4 years. And if I look at the air passenger traffic, also predicted to grow at, say, 10% over the next 5– 7 years. How should one think of hoteliers' ability to continue driving double-digit growth rates over, say, FY 2026– 2028, 2029?
Yeah, I think, I think you should look at it a little differently. I think, number one, in India, hospitality is a very underpenetrated market, actually. Which means that the number of branded rooms are 165,000, expected to go to some 220,000 rooms, which is nothing. Smaller than, say, New York or any of these bigger cities in the world, actually. And where is the new supply coming also, you should see? Key micro-market new supply is very minimal, to be honest, actually. And that you can see reports like Hotelivate report, which kind of actually analyzed the key micro-market kind of growth, actually.
So the where is the supply coming up is actually in the beyond the key metros, which is great, because these are if there is a certain density of branded rooms in the key metros, it's even lower in the non-metro markets, actually. And that is playing to the growth of the economy, the infrastructure development, the new religious destinations, the new smart cities, and all of that is playing to, actually. So from that perspective, if you look at it, the macro picture is really driving this. And hence, I think the industry will grow in line with that, actually. Industry will grow in line with that, and even the government has now realized the importance of the tourism industry.
Earlier, it was seen as a luxury thing, and today they're talking about employment and GST and all of those are recognized. Even yesterday, the budget announcement had strong statements in terms of giving interest-free loans to states to build tourism infrastructure and all of that. So I think the way you should look at it is that while supply is coming back, which is good, because ultimately, I think in India, bear in mind, supply is not driven by institutional ownership. It is still driven by individual ownership, actually. Then come the real estate players who have mixed-use development, and finally, the institutional players like Brookfield and all who are there, actually. I think given it's grown by individual or family ownership of properties, I think it's great that new supply is coming.
So, I think there should be no problem. The whole hospitality industry should benefit as a result of this, actually.
Sure. Lastly, on your international portfolio, we've continued to see, U.S. and overseas, that has continued to lag over last few quarters. I've seen, St. James' Court in London has seen significant improvement. So what are your expectations from the two businesses in terms of growth and margins?
No, I think as far as the U.K. is concerned, doing very, very well. First of all, I think at a total international level, I think, the hotels which matter to us in terms of consolidation are U.S., U.K. and South Africa. There, and then beyond it, it's all satellite growth, and of course, Frankfurt will be the least, which will open sometime in 2025 or so. I think at a total international level, our portfolio is certainly profitable. That's number one. Number two is that U.K., and South Africa are all very profitable, extremely... In fact, U.K. and all, exceptionally strong market actually. As far as U.S. is concerned, currently, there is a challenge. I think The Pierre, we have focused a lot in terms of controlling the costs, and I think, this year, the New York market has been a challenge.
There are, of course, specific challenges with the property itself. And, and therefore, there is... So what happens with the U.S. is that, our efforts in terms of improving the Pierre will hopefully present an opportunity to go back to lower losses. If you see the history of Pierre itself, I think the losses were higher. We brought it down. I think because of the recovery from pandemic has not happened, the losses increased, and there have been some specific challenges, but these are opportunities that we're working on. San Francisco, I think we see more as a temporary problem, which is driven by the city of San Francisco, actually. And it's a small property as well, actually. So San Francisco should come back, we feel, in the next 12-18 months, actually. So hence, I think, I think...
U.S. is a very important market. New York is a very important market for us. You know, you can't. It's the biggest lodging market, actually. I think, and any multi-store portfolio, Karan, I think, there'll always be some property which kind of has, a, a small drag, actually. I think as long as, that is manageable, I think we're fine with our presence. The presence in U.S. is giving us strong marketing and, what do you say? Network benefits, actually. So that's the way to look at it, actually.
Sure. Thank you, Giri. This is useful. Thank you, and all the best.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nihal Mahesh Jham from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning, Mr. Giri, and congratulations on the strong performance. My first question was, while we compare our RevPAR performance versus industry, even if I look at our standalone RevPAR performance versus the domestic network, and I know domestic network would have some element of mix change, there is still a significant difference that we are seeing over the last few quarters. Is it that the marquee properties that we own in our standalone is managing to experience much higher pricing power? And what is, you know, the reasons, according to you, beyond, say, the renovations that we have, we may have taken over the last 12-18 months?
... No, I think, I think that's a great question, Nihal, because I think one of the points that we always emphasize is that the outperformance of properties is also driven by the way we manage our properties, actually. Asset management initiatives in a place like Lalit is a great story, actually. There have been days when, say, the occupancy in Lalit have been 95%, and the comparable micro market occupancies maybe have been 65%, actually. And that is fundamentally a factor of the, what we are doing at the hotel level, actually. So hence, I think, especially in standalone, since you refer to standalone, which are where the big boxes are, the amount of effort that we are putting in terms of making sure we are continuously updated, make sure that we do the investment, is very, very strong, actually.
So hence, I think, yeah. Hence, I think from that perspective, the standalone will continue to do well. Enterprise, of course, you know, it's a bunch of new properties also, actually. And I think to the earlier question also, Ginger, 6,500, what happens? I think these all will build up, to be honest, actually. But the important point to note is that our asset management initiatives are exceptionally strong, actually. And that plays, you know, you do better banquets, you get room revenue. I know, I think as an example, you know, you add other propositions like the club floor, the club lounges, the revamped Chambers. You know, the offering just improves dramatically.
Now, weekend occupancies in Lalit have dramatically improved after all the efforts that the hotel has taken in terms of creating like an urban resort, actually. So I think these are great ways in which, you know, the attractiveness of the property goes up, actually. And that's a big differentiating factor, actually.
Sure, that is clear. Secondly, just a clarification that, if I look at the F&B revenue growth, again, slightly lower than room revenue, while this was a robust wedding season. So just, any specific aspects there?
No, I think overall, we do see, you know, F&B at an aggregate level is still very strong. F&B for us is in two parts, as you can see. Number one is the restaurant revenues, and the second is, of course, the banquet revenues, actually.
Sure.
I think banquet revenues are in two parts. One is the weddings, which are specific to these higher dates, which are there. And beyond the weddings, it's all the corporate MICE and all of that, actually. I think, I think we are doing well. I think, we, we manage it well across the different properties, actually. But overall, you're right that when we look at our overall portfolio and say that the room revenue growth is 27% and, and, and 22%, I think, in the quarter, if I'm not mistaken, 22, 23%, and the F&B growth is, is less than that. I think we do see longer term opportunity in driving F&B even further, actually. So we see F&B as an increasing opportunity going forward, actually. You know, and we are doing some very interesting things.
You know, example, we cater to the IPL. You know, now Cricket World Cup, we have catered, you know, to the... There was a big event that the Prime Minister did, is there are around 11,000 people. You know, we are catering. So some of these very, very interesting outdoor catering opportunities are emerging, and we are demonstrating increasing ability. So you will find that F&B is an area where significant growth can come, actually.
Understood that. Thank you so much. I wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajiv Bharti from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. So thanks for the opportunity. So with regard to TajSATS, I mean, you just reported close to 40+% YoY growth in this. Is this largely due to Air India or some capacity which is getting utilized? Because next year you are shooting for something like 14%-15% growth.
Yeah. No, I think, see, TajSATS has been evolving very strongly. I think, number one, number one is the efforts that were taken, within TajSATS itself in terms of, what do you say? The growth opportunities are significant. One is that from an insti- non-institutional catering perspective, whether it is Starbucks and others, they are growing very strongly. Air India is still not yet a very big factor. In fact, we have added international airlines, to our, catering, actually, so that helps as well, actually. So I think it's a combination of international catering, domestic airline capacities and, domestic airline servicing, and the third, of course, is institutional catering. And, and the beauty of this growth in TajSATS is that we're doing it without any significant CapEx, just remodeling, reengineering the capacities.
You know, Delhi, as an example, capacities have gone up three times with practically nil, CapEx, actually. So I think it's a very efficiently, we're managing that business. And the longer term opportunities are very significant, with the doubling in the number of airports from 75 to 150. And, and, and the overall growth, you know, in terms of airline passenger traffic. I think all that augurs well, actually. All that augurs well. In fact, I think the supply of planes to India is still kind of muted. In fact, people are saying that the supply of planes, to India will take time to grow. So hence, I think, TajSATS is on very strong wicket at this point in time.
Sure. And so with regard to Goa, specifically, do you have any asset which is under renovation this quarter? Because of which the ARR growth number is muted.
No, I think there is no particular property which is under renovation. We have. We continue to do the renovations, actually. I think, there's nothing which is specific in this quarter. Leisure market, I think, what we saw was, you know, you saw the performance where... Yeah, exactly. I think one is the very high base. Goa is already on a very high base, and it's now becoming around the year market, actually, not necessarily seasonal, actually. And we have continued to kind of balance between occupancy and ARR in any case, actually. So I think that's what you see, and that's what you see, actually.
So why I'm asking is, if you look at the, I mean, last year's presentation, same quarter, the number which we have reported is, I think, 21,000 plus, which you have revised it to 18,000 now. So I was wondering, because it's a like-for-like comparison, something is missing here, and that's why the number has come down?
... No, I think, Goa, yeah. What is coming down? No, I think he was saying, what, what is—is the ARRs coming down in Goa? No, it's not coming down in Goa.
Nothing is coming down. Everything is only going up and expected to go up further. You know, I think, we need to get used to seeing strong average rate numbers because we are coming from such a low base. We understand that there is a feeling that way, but given our engagement with other fellow hoteliers and companies, et cetera, we expect that as long as demand continues to outpace supply, as long as there is more and more travel happening, as, you know, 50 new airports, so many new aircrafts ordered by India, is going to propel a kind of a growth in travel that we have not seen. So, and the government's focus, this is the second year in a row that tourism got a mention in the budget presentation of the Honorable FM.
Also, we have got industry status in several states in India now. That makes it a little bit more cost efficient. But all this drive in using or leveraging tourism as an opportunity to contribute to GDP growth, as well as create direct and indirect jobs, is ultimately going to make the base or the foundation of occupancy and rates pretty solid in the short and medium term.
Sure. Just one thing, I missed out the CapEx number. Did you call out, because you have already done INR 470 crores this year. For this year remaining and for the, let's say, for the next year, what is the number we're shooting for? For INR 600 crores.
About 600, but it is also quite possible that this is only showing the spend. You know, we decided to invest in certain properties, but it is not yet showing any exit. At some point, we will go for a sale and lease back, if needed. So let's say we are building the 2 hotels in Ekta Nagar, the Vivanta and the Ginger, near the Statue of Unity. It's not a big expense, but definitely we don't plan to own it for perpetuity. So at some point, you know, this CapEx will get adjusted. Today, we are using it because we are generating enough internal cash flows to be able to support this growth without taking on any debt. So we are doing that, but at some point of time, we will not want to keep owning assets.
Sure. This Ginger-
In non-metro markets where, you know, the pricing of the asset is not expected to go through the roof.
Sure. The Ginger Santa Cruz 100 crore target is for FY 2026. Is it reasonable? Ginger is Santa Cruz FY 2025.
Yeah.
Okay. 25. Sure. Great. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaustubh Pawaskar from Sharekhan by BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, sir. Thanks for giving me the opportunity and congrats for good set of numbers. So I just have one question. In the initial comment, you mentioned that more than 50% of your revenues is coming from non-room, you know, part of a business. And this particular business is expected to grow because your emerging business or new businesses are growing, will grow in the upwards of 30%. You have strong focus on F&B. So in that context, you know, where can we see, you know, margin accretion in the coming years? You know, which part of business, you know, will add substantially to the margins growth?
We have always said that the new businesses will do margins about 35%+. So that's what we've been saying, and I think we are on track with that, actually. And I know this question keeps coming in terms of, will our 33% margin guidance go up? I think the way we have to look at it is that the 33%, the margin percentage now is an outcome rather than necessarily a target, actually.
And I think, I think the way we are much, you know, we will continue to grow, as Puneet said, and if we can grow double-digit top line, with a strong leverage, maybe 17%-18% growth in EBITDA, maybe 20%+ in terms of PAT, I think that's the way to look at it, rather than get fixated on whether the margin percentage itself will be 33% or 34%. I think look at it in terms of the overall growth in business, actually.
Okay. Okay, thanks.
Also, I would add, because this is very important what Giri said. You know, we have. Our base is becoming every year larger. So to keep growing 15%, 18%, 20%, 25% on different metrics is a strong hurdle. But we feel confident of continuing that kind of pace that we have had because of what we have in the pipeline and because of the investments in our new and reimagined businesses, without losing sight of our backbone that is Taj.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jay Shah from Ohm Portfolio Equi Research. Please go ahead.
Hi, Jay.
Hi, Giri and Puneet. Congratulations for the great results. I have some broad questions. Number one is, international business still seems to be a blip when you look at overall consolidated profit. I understand the importance of the international business. When do you think it will have a meaningful contribution that it should deserve? I'm not asking for any target guidance, but let's say within three years, five years, will this part of, say, our 130, where at least international business one can expect to be at, say, around 15%–20% of overall profits.
It should. Actually, it's the way accounting is done. You know, the international business, the management fees are accounted in IHCL directly. So I think what we can do is offline, we can share with you the expectation. If we were to add those fees back, then the international business looks very different. That's one. Second, you very rightly said is, it's not looking as good as it should look for two reasons. One is U.S., U.S. market is underperforming, and what has happened in San Francisco, nobody knows it better than you know, the investor community. But San Francisco is now beginning to stabilize, and we think that by the end of this calendar year, it will start going back to where it used to be.
But the last two years have been very tough for that city, and a lot of hotels even shut down there. And also New York is still not come back to pre-COVID level, so that's an opportunity. At some point, both these cities will come back, and both of them are very important for us, as, we either have a leasehold interest or we own fully the San Francisco property. The other opportunity is U.K. U.K., we are doing very well. We make profits. It's not-- But we can make much more. But, London also for a lot of reasons, as you all know and have been reading, has not been as strong, let's say, as Paris is. The three top lodging markets of the world is New York, London, Paris. Now, see where Paris stands today versus where London is.
Now, that will also change in some time, and we have been continuously investing in our London asset. We opened The Chambers there. We opened the, you know, the Chinese restaurant, the House of Ming there. We renovated the spa there. We are doing another 70 rooms, so I think that will drive further premiums. But the management fee income from most of the other destinations like Dubai, et cetera, they don't reflect in the way we present the financials based on the accounting policy.
Right. Thanks. That's helpful. My second question is, you know, as an investor, I am very surprised because the ARR room rates and all have exceeded our expectations and so has occupancy. But as a consumer, I do realize that travel and hotels are getting costly, and it is having an impact on the overall travel budget. Now, even if you consider capital market segment as kind of, you know, price-insensitive, and, you know, we can continue to travel, but at some stage there will be an affordability issue which becomes the cap for the average hotel stay, because the hotel or even the restaurant, kids size is getting better for most of the consumers. In this context, where do you see this at this stage, while I know you keep comparing with the APAC countries, and the other cities?
As we mentioned, at the start of the call, actually, we are still operating at 60% of the foreign tourist arrivals, and, if you convert, you know, the Taj brand achieving in Q3, which is the best quarter, INR 17,700 is less than $200. I think there is still some room to, to grow. This is, the way the rate structures have changed globally. It's not something only in India that has changed. The way the rates are today, in all important lodging markets of the world, we are still at a very, very low end. And, if India keeps growing the way it is, the GDP, the per capita income, we do believe that the rates, and the rate increase is sustainable.
Just building on it, Jayesh, I think, see, business continues to be about 70-75% of the business, the total top line, actually. So that is number one.
Right.
I think, and on the business side, I think the right comparison is what is the cost in India versus cost in Asia-Pac? You know, there is still opportunity, because as a business traveler who comes to India, people will still say, you know, the rates are far cheaper than what is there in Singapore or other places. And people don't say, "I go to Singapore because costs in India." No, "I come to India for business," actually. On the leisure side, I think it is the leisure is growing. I think people are taking shorter holidays. Shorter holidays, which means people take 2, 3-day holidays, more frequent holidays. And if you look at shorter holidays of 2, 3 days, which is going up, then I think the absolute cost of the travel is not significant, actually.
Thirdly, if you look at the Goldman Sachs affluence report, the base of affluence is also going up, actually. When you combine all that, now, I think, I don't think the current rate should cause any huge concern, actually. Of course, there will be people who kind of go out, like, for instance, the, the outbound Indian traffic. People used to ask us, "What happens if people go, which was not happening?" Now, outbound travel from India has reached the pre-pandemic level, 99%, and yet you see very strong performance in India, actually. Like the inbound foreign tourist has not come, but yet you see palaces, the rates going up, actually. Hence, I think the domestic ability to spend is still very, very strong, is what I would say.
I don't think rate itself should be a dampener at any critical level, actually.
... hypothetically, a 10%-15% upside in ARR next year will not surprise you, is it?
Jayesh-
I'm just thinking of the thought process. I'm not asking you to commit on the ARR growth. That's it. Yeah.
No, it should not surprise us. I do believe that India remains a very strong destination with all the events that are planned and the change in infrastructure, you know. When you have 50 new airports coming, you have centers like Bharat Mandapam, Yashobhoomi, you have the Jio in Mumbai, you know, it's just beginning to change. The ability to have an event for 2,000–3,000 people never existed.
Correct.
If you get only one event every quarter, entire city of Delhi is sold out. You get one event every month in Jio, a 5-kilometer radius around Jio is all sold out.
Yes.
So when the area is sold out, you can also charge more. So I think, there is a massive change in infrastructure and the kind of roads and highways. I was on, on Monday, evening or Tuesday morning, I was in Delhi on the new highway, which is connecting, Gurugram and, to Mumbai. People have stopped using the other one to go to Jaipur and are using this one because it's like two-hour journey. So, you know, somehow all these places have also become more accessible, and, and that makes it what Giri was saying, going for a little longer weekend, driving yourself. Things like this was there, but with a very limited percentage of population.
Yeah.
That base is increasing every day, and that is helping. So if, if there is only like 10 million more people traveling on an extended weekend for 5 nights a year, then it is 50 million room nights.
Yeah.
The number of rooms are not increasing at the same pace. I think that is... There is a fundamental shift out there.
And the other point is also our own way, our portfolios. Our portfolio is across every price point, actually. You know-
Right.
Ultimately, when you look at us, you should. That also helps, actually. That also helps because when you are present at every price point, you have an opportunity to service the customer at whatever price point he wants, actually. So that also helps.
Yeah. So Ginger, Vivanta, ARR can actually be, but perhaps not so much, you know, at the top level. But maybe that's, that's where I'm coming from.
We'll watch this space, Jayesh.
Thanks. Thanks. I would love to be wrong.
Are you happily satisfied or as investors, you said as consumer, you are not, or you are worried?
No.
No, you didn't say dissatisfied. You are concerned, right?
Correct. Correct. The way I would put it is we are, we are definitely very surprised as investors, very happily surprised, not at all anxious at all. But as consumer, yes, I'm looking at a share of wallet. That's it. That, you know, there is an X amount that one would spend on a travel budget, and a higher proportion goes for international travel. And then the domestic travel keeps getting expensive, plus the airlines and everything keeps getting expensive. So at some stage, does it really become affordability issue? Basically, Indians are value for money.
Yeah, but equally, equally, Jay Shah, you look at the demographics, and this we have discussed, Jay Shah, before. It's not just the youngsters who are spending, who are taking the shorter holidays.
Right.
It's also the baby boomers are spending. You know, I think what is not really recognized-
Yeah.
is the spend of the Baby Boomers, actually.
Right.
I think people are recognizing more their spend in healthcare and all that, but baby boomers' ability to spend is very significant, actually.
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And midweek.
And midweek.
People, they can spend midweek because they're retired, actually.
Right. You got me there.
Exactly.
One, the last question is, how many iconic hotels one could expect over the next five years? Or is this something that you would reveal at, say, Ahvaan thirty? I'm saying you have a Taj Mansingh, you have Bombay, you have Land's End and maybe Goa, but would you have more iconic hotels besides Sea Rock coming up in your five-year plans?
Anything between 7–10 is realistic. We have very nice hotels in pipeline. So, even the latest renovation of Usha Kiran Palace in Gwalior is world-class, and really worth visiting, because we are used to only going to Rambagh and, you know, Lake Palace and Falaknuma. We are building a very iconic hotel with a partner in Chennai. We have just opened a very iconic hotel in Gangtok, the Taj Guras Kutir, following the success of Taj Chia Kutir in Darjeeling, which has been a runaway success. So there are lots of such properties that are coming. The Taj Puri will be in Jagannath Puri, will be a very nice property also.
So I think, all in all, you can expect every year, let's say, 1.5-2 real iconic Taj assets getting added, as have been in the past. Taj Rishikesh, as an example, is also very iconic and same was when we did the whole development of 500+ rooms with the convention center in Goa. So unfortunately, it opened at the time of COVID, but the largest convention center of Goa and the largest capacity of 500+ rooms is with the Taj brand. So I think this will keep happening. Thank you very much, and best wishes. That's all.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you.
Can we take one more question, please?
Yes, sir.
Just one more question. Yeah.
Noted, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this will be the last question for today, which is from the line of Saurabh Patwa from Quest Investment Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thanks for taking the question. I think the question is related to F&B and TajSATS combined, and also in link with the new brand which we are trying to open in the, which you plan to open in tier two, tier three cities. I think in parts you answered this question, but just wanted more clarity on when you also highlighted that, like, one of the reasons why you would look to for a mass kind of a hotel in the smaller cities is also the banqueting opportunity there.
So, what's the thought process, sir, how much you expect, what kind of strategy you would operate around the F&B opportunity in the newer brand which you're planning? And, will Taj actually a key pillar for that?
Not TajSATS. TajSATS obviously has a different strategy on non-aviation business. We try to get to 15% of total TajSATS revenue to come from non-aviation driven businesses. Having said that, the new brand will be a full service upscale brand, and we are in the process of finalizing all the details, but it will be something that serves the needs of mass market, but higher than a Ginger positioning. So Ginger is a 20-22 square meter room. This will have 26, 27, 28 square meter room. It will have a couple of restaurants. It will have large banqueting spaces, which can accommodate weddings of 300-500 people easily. So, and at an affordable price, it will not be in the same pricing segment as a Taj brand would be.
Somewhere in between, between Ginger and Taj, I would say upper mid-scale, upscale, that is, the positioning we are aiming at, because the target market size, as I mentioned earlier, is around 500 million.
Understood, sir. And so F&B, how important F&B is to you in these kind of hotels?
F&B, the second and third tier market is going up because of the weddings, you know, a lot of weddings. In fact, I think that is why, you know, we are saying that, the format of some of these properties will be a little different. It may be increased F&B banqueting spaces and all of that. Yeah.
Understood, sir. Thanks a lot, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Puneet Chhatwal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you for joining the call, and thank you for all your questions. We will look forward to the full year results in April with you, and hope to deliver, continue to deliver on our promise. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day and a great weekend ahead.
Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of The Indian Hotels Company Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.