Q2 20/21

Nov 4, 2020

Good day, and welcome to the Indian Hotels Company Limited Q2 FY 'twenty one Earnings Call being hosted by Mr. Puneet Chattwal, Managing Director and CEO, IHCL and Mr. Girithar Sanjeevi, EVP and CFO, IHCL. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Puneet Chathwal. Please go ahead, sir. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Q2 twenty twenty one results presentation this evening. Let me begin first on a good note, The icon of Delhi, the Taj Man Singh or the Taj Mahal Hotel Delhi as we popularly call it, is now open. And the lobby is fully renovated with the Emperor's Lounge and the Machan with which a lot of Delhiites have grown up with, dating back to 1978, is open and running and has been restored to its old glory. I think this is a very, very important hotel for us, and we are very proud that we were able to retain this in our portfolio. Now let me move to a little bit on the macroeconomic circumstances. As we are all aware, we hear it in the news. We read it in the newspapers. There is a contraction in the global GDP by more than 4%. And within the global distress that is there, tourism and hospitality has been hit the worst. It is a $5,500,000,000,000 estimated loss in this in this segment and approximately 200,000,000 in jobs. And when it comes to India, the latest IMF projection was a bit north of minus 10% on GDP. And I'll come to the figures of the loss of revenues in India and also on the loss possible loss in in jobs in a minute. I think it is time that we took stock of where we are coming from. If we go back into this year, March 11, I remember very well that the visas were canceled, and March 13, the OCI travel was also canceled. Then we had a national lockdown, which was announced two days post the the Janata curfew on the March 22. And then twenty fourth midnight onwards, we had to lockdown initially till April 15, but which kept getting extended till almost September in certain states even in October. The flights then on a domestic front started resuming around the May, that's the May 25. We had the first unlock one on June 8, followed by a very important state for us, Maharashtra, allowing 33% of hotel rooms to open and not food and beverage as of July 8. And then we started international flights under air bubble on the July 17. In August, the hotel started opening up in Delhi, and Maharashtra then announced in September the opening of the hotels. Of course, the restaurants in Maharashtra with limited food and beverage activity followed on the October 5. Well, when coming to India, it's of course, it's an unprecedented downturn for the Indian hospitality sector. The branded hotel seem to have lost more than 31,000 crores in revenue. And if we have the unbranded also, then it comes to 1 lakh 11,000 plus crores. Hotel occupancies when compared to last year April versus this year April fell from 75% to just 7%, and there was a 55 to 60% drop in average rates, which is an expectation not for April, but for the calendar year 2020. That means from January till December. And and these figures are based on estimates provided by Hotel Evade Research, And therefore, a total loss in hotel revenues from Jan to December is estimated at 1 lakh 42,000 or 1 lakh 43,000 crores. Now having said that, there are certain clear trends that are emerging in travel patterns and guest behaviors. Some of these are short term, some of these are midterm, and some are there to stay forever. However, what we are witnessing is that the consumers are gravitating towards trusted brands as safety is the highest priority. There is an increase in the last couple of months in domestic and regional travel. However, the booking windows are shorter, and there is a willingness to pay premium for flexibility. This, we had not seen pre COVID that people pay premium. There was usually a bargain. There is a shift in the purpose of travel. And if there is any travel at all in business, it is always linked to leisure, which we which we popularly call it leisure segment. There is a change in type of travel. It's more staycations, more drivecations, even though you have to drive for ten or eleven hours. There is a multigenerational travel happening. That means grandfather, father, and the grandchild may be traveling together, which was not seen that often before, and mostly to remote locations. There is a surge in new products, vacation rentals, home delivery business, car rentals, and home stays. Having said that, I think what we announced in the last quarter when we came up with the results was our strategy, our five pronged strategy, which we call reset 2020. And just as a reminder, which, you know, the reset stands for revenue growth, excellence in our operations, spent optimization, effective asset management, and being swift and financially prudent. I would now like to walk you through some of the revenue initiatives that we have introduced under the reset 2020. The first one, obviously, is human, which is our home delivery business in the first half of this year, and although it was launched towards the month of June of 10 crores in enterprise revenue. More than 34,000 orders till date, I can even tell, in October. Despite Sharath and the last time, we've had a good October. So this revenue is increasing. We've just opened in a soft opening phase our first cumin shop, a gourmet shop at the hotel president in Mumbai. And in the month of December, that means as of next month, we'll be launching our cumin food truck business, and three trucks are expected to go live. Hospitality at home, we started very early in the lockdown phase, almost to towards the April. That's also done around 14 crores in business. That is, you know, delivery of hampers and different kinds of hampers. We have come up with three different possibilities, which was very well accepted. And with the festive season round the corner, we're seeing a lot of surge in that kind of sales. Very proudly, our first announcement on our platform that we have with AB InBev, we just launched the Seven River BluePop in Bangalore. And in forty days, it's already done 60 lakhs plus in revenue. So some of these it is not all the SMB innovations, but I think these are the most significant and relevant ones which we wanted to share with you. With that, I move to how we went about unlocking the potential of domestic business. We had introduced our four d strategy, a four d marketing initiative, which was your dream, you drive, you discover, and you delight yourself. This contributed more than 27 crores to our h one enterprise revenue, but I'm also happy to report that this was also launched around June. And since then, it has picked up significant momentum, and we expect this to be a very large contributor to our revenue by March. Another important factor which we did not stop doing in this phase is lose sight on our growth. We have signed eight new hotels in the first half of the year. Obviously, our focus, as you will hear a little bit later in the presentation, was stronger on asset management instead of just signing new contracts. But some of the good opportunities, we did focus on, and we signed eight contracts, added them to our pipeline, totaling around 750 keys. A snapshot of few new openings that are coming in this month, we will open the Tad skyline in Ahmedabad. It's a large property. It's on a management contract. Then we'll open the Vivanta in Trivandrum or to Vanta to Vanta Purim, followed by the Taj Wellington Museum in Chennai. This will be the first property in India that will be run by ladies or associates only, whether in engineering or as general manager or as a chef or in the housekeeping area. And finally, the Tatshia Kootee and Darshley. So we are we are quite hopeful that in the next ninety days, we would have opened these four, but we expect to open around 10 hotels by by thirty first of of March. And one important opening that is not mentioned here is as expected around the November 10 is the Connaught in Delhi. On the excellence initiatives on the excellence initiatives, we have remained very focused. As you would all know, we lost as one of the very first companies, Tajness, the commitment re strengthened. Why re strengthened? Because Tajness was always there. Our care to safety and security of our guests was always there. However, we have restrained and it with the new norms of WHO and the Ministry of Health. Our NPS net promoter score has grown consistently even during this corona phase. And and as you would have all noticed, we have been winning hearts and getting a lot of accolades, recognitions on on various platforms, whether it is whether it is Rambak being rated as the top hotel in India or among the 15 best in the world, or it is our properties, the pier in New York from Fondernest or the Maldives Resort, the Taj Bell Palace in Toggle in Mumbai for three years in a row as the best hotel in the world from Trust You, the Lake Palace in Udaipur, the best resort, a Taj Exotica in Goa. And and this goes on. I think we have a lot of iconic assets, and they do win hearts and minds and souls of people handing out these awards. When we move on to our spend optimization initiatives, in q two, we had the same result as you see in q one. We had a 51% reduction in the cost. In q one, the main reduction came from the variable cost and marginal reduction from the fixed cost. But as you see in q two, that number in the on the fixed cost reduction increased by 30%. And as, obviously, the business grows, the revenues grows, the variable cost reduction becomes lesser. But in all, we were able to maintain a minus 51% control on the cost. And as management, we are very pleased with that number. When we move forward on the on on where these costs optimization, which heads it came from, It's, of course, the raw material costs as the revenues have dropped to such a significant level. But also on the admin expenses, on heat, light, and power expenses, these are semi variable costs. We we had good success in controlling them. Our fixed lease cost, which we'll talk about a bit more in detail, and as I alluded to you on the asset management focus of our development team and our operations and finance has helped us a lot in the fixed lease cost reduction as well as manpower cost by almost 40%. When we move further into effective asset management, and here it comes to how we secure significant lease waivers. And at the IFC level, it is 31 crores. On subsidiary level, it was 37 crores. On group companies, 24 crores. So totaling 92 crores of reduction in this cost, and the benefit received in h one twenty twenty one for ICL and subsidiaries amounts to 42 crores. Moving on to the to the drift and financial prudence, I think on this, we did quite well. We saved 43 crores versus last year same time in the first half of the year, and we achieved this by exercising prudence in all corporate expenditure and especially redeployment and restructuring. When I say redeployments, it is because of our growth. We have an opportunity to redeploy our associates in new properties that are opening up. We also have an opportunity to redeploy some of our people in other companies within the group that are growing despite the pandemic. And so we are very, very content to have had that opportunity and have done successfully. And we feel that this number would only go higher because the redeployment did not happen in the month of April or May. It took time for it to kick start. So most of the amounts that you see, they are really an impact of June till till September for the first half of this year. Then further on the liquidity, we have taken multiple steps. You know, we have grown brought down an ICL on seven fifty core of long term debt from April to September. We have secured additional lines for any further requirement. We are exploring on a daily basis monetization opportunities. It was part of our aspiration 2022 strategy. It's a part of our reset strategy, and we have deferred any non essential CapEx and renovations that could have been could have been reworked. So, therefore, if we were to summarize on the revenue growth initiatives, we had 135 crores, which would be a not like for like revenue versus last year same time. That means the source of this revenue is the new revenue initiatives and not what we had last year. We had spend optimization with control on cost of another 149 crores in first half. Then on effective asset management, around 46 crores and 43 crores of corporate overhead reduction. With that, we move on to some of the performance highlights in terms of how our portfolio of brands have performed. Now these are figures based on all brands. If we look at the RevPAR on the on the domestic hotel spaces, you know, we see some early signs of recovery. As I mentioned in April, from 75% occupancy last year, we went down to seven. Of course, the RevPAR dropped to 340 approximately, and it is up to 1,340. So 1,000 rupees have been gained on the RevPAR. And now this is on all portfolio, whether the hotels were operational or not operational. When it comes to operational portfolio, the drop cost was 700 in April, which is more than doubled from April till September. So if we look at it this way, there is also a four x growth from April to September if we looked at throughout the entire portfolio. But on the operational portfolio, it's more than doubled. In terms of our performance to the industry, ICL had in q one a RevPAR of 513, which grew to 1,061 September. That is 2.1 x. The industry RevPAR based on STR global that we have received was at four sixty five, which went to seven ninety six, so 1.7 x. And we are seeing a large growth, especially in q two, on our portfolio. And this is really for two reasons. I think one is because we do have a lot more resort assets, so which helps because the demand is really domestic and is leisure driven. But the second reason is also the trust, which I alluded to. There's a trust in the brand, especially Taj, as one of our brands is benefiting significantly from the trust and the love and the emotion of the people. And and it is currently outperforming its competitors in almost all markets with the exception of one. Going forward, I think it's very interesting to see the slide on Ginger. As you will see, Ginger also came down from, you know, very high occupancy to low occupancy in the crisis, but it was the first one to recover. And in September, it already went north of 50%. I can also inform you that even October, it finished north of 50%, and it's and it's RevPAR index grew from, you know, 0.7 approximately in April to almost doubled or more than doubled at 1.48 in September. And we are very pleased with this also because Ginger as a brand has already achieved for the first half of this year 53% of last year's revenue. Now as we all know, most of the companies struggled in q one, and most of the brands struggle, I mean, almost all. But I think Ginger has shown a lot of resilience, and we thought this slide is worth sharing with all of you. Another thing when we move forward, you see the the decline in revenue was as dramatic as we are seeing the the increase in numbers on a month by month basis. So as we hit a low in April, going down to as much as 35 crores, in September, it almost went close to $1.50 crores. And then we move on to the EBITDA, which was negative in April at 100 crores, has actually turned positive in September, and the trend continues that way. That the losses are getting narrowed on the p b t level and on the p a d level, and the EBITDA is turning positive. And and we see no reason why this trend should not continue in q three with similar kind of increases in all these four segments of revenue, EBITDA, PBT, and PAD. That's a kind of a without giving a number to it, a kind of a guidance in terms of trends. Coming to our consolidated performance, in q two, we had a total revenue of 324 crores. That's increased in over q one by 150 almost. We narrowed the EBITDA loss from two thirty four to 83. That's an improvement on of 151. I think more important is that although there was an increase in revenue of 149, the EBITDA improved to a 151. So the flow through that the management team has been working on has been quite positive. We have also narrowed the losses of PBT level at $2.63 versus $3.36 in q one and back from two eighty going down to a negative of two thirty, which is another improvement of 50 crores. With that, I would like to hand over to my colleague, mister Giridhar Sanjeevi, to take you through the details of the financial performance. Yeah. Thank you. Moving on to the consolidated financial performance, the details. I think as we can see, the q two revenue was $3.24 crores, which we represented as compared to last year's decline of 69%, but represented a significant improvement from the first quarter number of 175 crores. In terms of expenditure, as was highlighted earlier, we continue to maintain total expenditure in the 52% as compared to last year in Q2, which was the same levels for the whole, the entire H1 as well. This is driven by all around focus on all the lines of cost, corporate overheads, employee benefits and all of the lines of cost section. On finance costs, the finance costs were steady at around 97 crores and H1 was at about 185 crores. We had an exceptional of 20 crores due to some exchange gain loss and old derivatives. We ended the quarter with a loss of $2.30 crores and the total half yearly loss is $5.10 crores. Moving to the next slide. This is just some details of exceptional items. Think in the current quarter lease conditions comes as part of the top line. And we have revalued some of our liabilities in relation to the purchase of the CDOT shares and that gives us a gain of about 23 crores. I think those are the two exceptions worth noting this time. Move on please. In terms of the standalone reported revenue, we reported a revenue of $2.15 crores. Expenditure was at $2.53 crores, which was minus 47% as compared to the previous year. It is at the similar levels even for the entire H1 at minus 46 crores. Finance cost was at 69 crores. There was some marginal exceptional gains in this quarter, loss of about 16 crores or so, giving a net loss after tax of 142 crores. And for the H1 the net loss was about $3.50 crores for standalone. Moving to the standalone exceptional numbers, I think as you know, we do provide for The U. S. Losses and that was about 29 gross in the quarter. Move on please. In terms of some standalone revenue metrics, essentially what you see in H2, in Q2 from July to September is that between August and September, clearly you see a steady improvement in occupancy. You see a significant jump in ARR from 4,500 to 5,000 to 6,500. That's a significant jump in ARR. And RevPAR also going up from 1,400 to 1,500 to 2,200, a 50% jump plus in terms of RevPAR. And there was definitely a shift in business. Post August we saw the quarantine business come down and the regular FIT business coming up actually, and those are reflected in the numbers of Q2 and September actually. Similarly on the domestic revenue, the network business we see the same impact where the occupancy does go up by 6% or so from twenty six point eight to thirty two point four. Era, there is a significant jump of about 10% from 3645 to April. And RevPAR of course you see a significant jump of nearly 50% in RevPAR. So that is reflected in the domestic network metrics as well. In terms of the debt position, I think we continue to be prudent in terms of drawing down on debt. We have held managed for, we have held position for liquidity. Our net debt in standalone as of September 30 was 2,100 crores and consolidated was 2,900 crores. Weighted average cost of debt continues to be well managed at 7.8% for standalone. Net debt to equity is still comfortable at point five or so, And net debt to EBITDA on a twelve month trading clearly has gone up to 4.97. Consolidated numbers similarly are 6.7% for debt. Net debt to equity has been about point six eight. And net debt to trading EBITDA has been about 7.54. So overall liquidity position remains comfortable. I think before I end, I just wanted to highlight some trends which are relevant for ICF. I think these are external trends and those which are relevant within the circle of influence. From an external macro trends perspective, very clearly in India we are seeing that the COVID cases are going down. There's a thirty percent drop in new infections and that augurs well. I think that has allowed the government also to reopen all the hotels and allow restaurants and all the parts of the hotel operation to open. Domestic aircraft is definitely going up, 40% improvement in September versus August, and steadily we have been seeing, if you look at the airline results, you're seeing that the air traffic numbers are going up. Domestic tourism is definitely going up, and it is almost like a revenge travel in terms of especially in the leisure destinations that you're seeing a lot of domestic tourism and leisure travel rebounding. And some of our destinations like Rajasthan, Rishikesh, and other leisure destinations are doing very well actually. And as was described earlier, Raj as a trusted brand tends to gain more and people are willing to pay a premium for all their travels actually. And that is something which is important for us actually. And within IFC's control of influence, very clearly we are focused on revenue, including the new lines of revenue through our research initiatives, and there's a visible increase in revenue month on month, and we hope that will continue. And we are in the season at this point of time, and with the unlock down and being in the middle of the season, we do believe that this quarter and the next quarter we will see the momentum in terms of revenues. Very strict cost control and spend optimization is there. You'll see it in the 52% cost savings during this quarter. We have outperformed the competition in key leisure markets like Goa and other key metros. Ginger Hotels has exhibited very strong performance, exceeded and sustaining 50% plus occupancy levels. And we continue on our growth momentum in terms of opening hotels which have largely which are asset light except for one property actually. So I think so we continue to sort of watch the external environment and do all that we can in terms of optimizing revenues, managing costs and managing balance sheet and liquidity. With that, I kind of open it up for questions. Thank you, We will now take our first question. Hi. This is Achal from HSBC. So I wanted to understand a few things. So first of all, if you could please talk a bit more about your new revenue initiative. So you have given crores of number as in it's a new revenue from the initiative. How much of it flew through to your bottom line? So what I wanted to understand is that if you could talk about the profit margins you earned in your different revenue initiatives like human and all, that would be very helpful, please. Okay. Should I should I take it, Puneet? Yeah. You can. I will add. Yeah. Yeah. No. I think I think if you look at businesses like human, I do not know if you have experienced human in terms of the FNB. I think the average ticket for two people is approximately 3,500 to 4,000, and then you sell at the same prices as the restaurants. The margin of this business is very high because we are not discounting these. These are not squiggy type of revenues. Hospitality at home also, these revenues are all at a full pricing actually. So some of these initiatives like human and hospitality at now are completely at full pricing. The four d initiatives which are in terms of taking advantage of the leisure destinations and maximizing those, the 27 crores that was pointed out, these are also at significantly good ARR levels. So therefore I think there is no compromise at all in terms of the margins on some of these initiatives. Sandeep, do you want to add to that? Yeah. I think there is just to add to this, a lot of these businesses are incremental. So the costs are incremental and so is the revenue. So for example, cumin is the same kitchens. It's the same chefs, cooks who are preparing it. The incremental cost is really the raw material cost and the cost of delivery. We are also not using a third party provider, so that makes the margins even larger. And we're looking at margins, you know, on most of these businesses, I would say, as a hybrid north of 50%. And why north of 50%? As I said, this is not where we have deployed capital in building a space. It's using the existing spaces and using the existing facilities, existing manpower, the cost we would which we would have had anyways. Also, I think the same same thing on hampers or the hospitality at home, the same on the four d initiative. And and I think there is a lot of wellness retreats that we have launched, staycations that we have launched, temporary office working that we have launched. And you will see more and more of this coming because partly we have to adjust our business model to the new reality, and we have to try to find, you know, latent demand that did not exist before and try to capitalize on it. But, yes, one line answer is all these businesses are very high margin business because we cannot be on one hand saying, we will not be doing any CapEx and actually reducing and deferring any planned CapEx, and that's how it makes the model very, very asset light. Right. So so so is it fair to assume that out of the total new revenue of 135 crores, almost like $60.65 crores or more or slightly more would have grown to the bottom line. Right? Absolutely. It's it's fair to assume that. Perfect. Even a little higher number. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. No. By the way, I use cost of cummin, and it's a great initiative. It's it's a great thing to be to be fair. The other thing also I wanted to understand about the cost evolution. How so so, of course, you're a 50% cost decline. How do you see it going forward as as the business picks up as as you go open more hotels? So I think some of your employees' cost will come back and all those sorts things. How should we expect your cost would evolve over the next two quarters at least? And then probably, if you can talk about a bit more in the next year? Sure. I would I would go first, and then maybe, Gideon, if you want, you can add something. If you see, this is a historic opportunity also. As bad as this COVID news has been, it has been an eye opener for the global hotel industry to, you know, check every cost that we had. And not that we were not looking at cost before, but when your revenues come down to almost a zero level and the hotels are shut, then you have all the time to keep looking at every possible cost 10 times a day than you did when it's business as usual. My personal opinion for the industry and especially for IHCL, I would say, let let me limit it to our own company is that we came up with this reset strategy, and that means it's also a reset on the cost base going forward. This is not a temporary thing. We don't do those temporary things. We have not furloughed any any staff. We have not taken employment away from anyone. Our salary contributions that we have done, we have created parts for families supporting staff who have lost jobs because they were not directly employed by us rather by one of our partners or something. So so that way, I think we do see this as an opportunity to come up with new operating business models, and we are doing that. We are we are going to redefine our business class rooms proposition, our business, you know, touch club lounge proposition. Everything will be reset for the time coming ahead of us and going forward. Gideon, if you want to add something to it. No. That that is right. And I think what you saw, Achin, in the first quarter was reduction, which is more in context of variable costs. And as we go forward in Q2, we have seen that the cost savings are more of the fixed costs and you will see much more fixed cost reductions coming through. In fact, if you see the Q1 fixed cost number last year, it was about 156 crores. It came down to 123 crores per month. And in Q2 that came down from 157 to 112. So therefore, think there's a lot of focus in terms of trying to drive down the fixed cost. And as Puneet said, is all, you know, changes in operating model and trying to make fundamental changes in the way they're working. Starting with the corporate office to everywhere else actually. So there's a very strong focus on improving the cost base. Great. Okay. So basically, I'm assuming that these cost efficiencies would continue even once even if you're even if the full business pick up the original scale and that will benefit, right? That is right. That is what we want to do. In fact, one of the things we talk about is that in the previous year, we needed 4,500 crores of top line to generate say 1,000 crores of EBITDA. I think the attempt is to say that can we do it at a much lower expense, similar EBITDAs at much lower levels of top line. So therefore I think the focus is very clearly there in terms of bringing down the cost base to a different level, absolutely. Right, right. Fair enough. Other thing I also wanted to understand more about the change in customer mix. So until recent quarter or the September probably, you would have had many, many people saying I mean, so most of traffic would have been driven by the COVID, the medical staff and then quarantined people and also and then that must have been changed, or that must have been replaced by the normal leisure demand. So I just wanted to understand if you could talk a bit more about, you know, what kind of change are you noticing now from from your traffic, in in the quarter to September, to to now this starting December? And and Yeah. I think I mean, what I can say is that with the change in the with the reduction in the quarantine flights, what we are now seeing as we had predicted earlier, the leisure luxury business picking up, the weddings picking up, and therefore, and what we are seeing in terms of some of the destinations like Goa and Pakistan and other destinations, we are definitely seeing people willing to pay and kind of take their and stay in all these hotels. So therefore I think it's more of hiking, it's more domestic tourism related, no international tourists are clearly coming. But the effort people are willing to pay. And that is really the change here. So it looks like the participant line has been removed from the Q and A section. We'll take our next question. Line is open. Please go ahead, sir. Sorry, am I audible? Yes, sir. Sorry. I think I I think my line was had some problem. So, Gideon, sorry. Just continuing that question. I mean, so the destinations which you just talked about are more of a sort of a leisure destination. So probably that highlight that is some recovering the leisure demand. But how about because if you see air travel, there is a lot of recovery in leisure demand, but I'm sorry, there is a slow recovery in the leisure demand, but more of a MSMEs travel, which is taking place. So if that is the case, how kind of what kind of traffic recovery you are looking at in terms of business destination like Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi and all? Business travel clearly is slow. You're right, the MSME business has picked up in terms of travel. And that is one of the reasons why you see the incrementing occupancies also coming through in places like Ginger, where the occupancies have gone up above 50%. So Ginger clearly benefits with that segment. As far as the premium hotels are concerned, I think it is more leisure luxury than the snack. Right, right. Last question from my side. I'm really sorry for a bit of a long list. In terms of liquidity, so if you could please guide us on what kind of cash burn now happening on a per month basis that would be helpful. No, think between cash and lines we are more than INR1000 crores. And I think we have been very prudent in terms of expenditures actually. And I think the good news in this business is that as the revenues pick up, as they have started doing the requirements of cash drop, so we believe that we are well protected for now in terms of liquidity. But how the cash burn has improved versus the last quarter? I think cash burn has definitely improved. I think in the initial months, it was INR400 crores a month in terms of cash burns. But I think operating cash burn now has come to less than 50 crores or so. Of course, there's always other things which come up. But and this as it goes forward, hopefully should drop, but but we need to keep a close track of it. Okay. But you could be fair to say that we should be sorry. It would be fair to say, given the current business on books and whatever we know, we should be cash positive as of November. Because we have the wedding season which is kicking in, we have the festive season which is kicking in, we have no Sharads, we have no Navratzas, you know, which was there in October. And October also ended up in a similar trend as September was over August, October was over September. So if November goes that way, then I don't see that we would have need of cash burn. But that's all if and but what we can see today for the next three weeks, it does look that the jumps would be similar. Right, right. Perfect. Thank you so much and wish you good luck. Thank you. We will now take our next question. Hello. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first of all, during your opening statement, you have talked about this is Vikas from Antique. So during your opening statement, you have talked about that you have deployed the employees in other group companies. And clearly, one of your group companies hiring pretty strongly. Is it possible to quantify what percent of the total employees we are transferring to the other group group company? See, it is not it is not just transferring people. I think the strategy that we announced three years ago was the three r strategy of reimagine, restructure, and reengineer. Right? When we reimagined our brand's cape, we needed certain skill sets, so we hired certain kinds of people. In order to reengineer our margins, we started changing the business model. And restructuring is as per the needs of today. So there are different examples at corporate level, and I did mention that we have the ability to redeploy because of the needs and wants of business are different. So as an example, when we opened the Connaught in Delhi, almost 100% of the employees there are from other group, you know, properties. So whether they are from Taj Mahal, Delhi or they're from Taj Mahal, or from the one Taj worker or from Taj even from Taj Wellington News in Mumbai. So it provides the growth provides a normal progression for the employees, and we are able to, you know, become more efficient in the operations. And that's one kind of redeployment. The other redeployment is, as an example, if we club the functions of of a couple of departments. So recently, we aligned our revenue management and finance into one function. And that way, we don't need to because one person retired, so the other one could take over two jobs because it's both numbers driven. And and that's another example. The third is there is a possibility as one of the group companies, as you said rightly, is expanding, and we would be working with them very closely. We are on the human app, for example. It's good for them to have some people from our own system because it help them in doing a super app and addressing the needs and wants of our business. So that's how we have been very, you know, step by step mindful our also midterm and long term needs because, you know, just redeployment is not what we do. We have to address in a very smart way the talent that is needed to take the company where we wanted to take it to, where we were 80% there on the pre COVID level, and how we are going to get to the hundred and ten percent there in the next few years. So so I don't think that kind of a quantification would be you will see the results in our corporate overhead quarter on quarter basis, if that's a way to answer it. But we cannot quantify these kind of numbers. Did you want to say something on this? No. No. I think that's that's fine. Had nothing else to add from the text. Yeah. Okay. My my my bad. I thought the the move is more to do with, you know, managing the employee cost in the near term. Secondly, second, my question is on the corporate side, how the demand is shaping up? And I'm looking for this answers more from a medium term perspective and not near term because clearly most of the tech and consulting companies are talking about medium term saving coming from travel and work from home with the use of collaborative platforms and all. And the dichotomy is when we look at the smart money, private equity players especially, they are they continue to invest in commercial space. So just want your view on this and what you're hearing from your corporate clients. Do you think the mix between leisure and corporate travel will change meaningfully? And, you know, I I maybe from three to five years perspective, if you can, you know, throw some light on it, not yet. Well, I I am a firm believer that corporate travel will be back and will be back very strongly. And it's a matter of a few more months at the most when there is a vaccine. But also, the work from home for the tech companies is there to stay. It's not as as said in the presentation, some of the changes are short term, some are medium term, and some will be there forever. It's like getting through security at the airports. Before one could go in the airport, now you cannot go unless you have a boarding pass. You could enter hotels and leave them without going through the the the baggage check and, you know, putting your mobile away and the scanning, etcetera. So some of these things are there to stay forever, but if anyone believes that now business can only be done on Zoom or, like, what we are doing now, And we will never have a a investor meet in our Crystal Ballroom. I don't think that is true. It is just if it's not three months and it is six months, and if it's not six months at at the most, it is nine months that we will be meeting you in person and doing these investor meets. So so I I've already I have been traveling. I went to I've been to all major metros. I've been to Hyderabad. I've been to Bangalore. I've been to Delhi. I've even traveled abroad, and I'm going again at the end of this week, some private, some on business. And I can tell you I've seen empty airports in July, and I've hardly seen flights. And now I see almost a lot of activity. And if you look at the latest statistics prepared by, I think, MakeMyTrip, and it was on a on a CNBC channel. The growth in September over August was 40% in their traffic. And as per also the minister of civil aviation, a lot of traffic is back to pre COVID level, and all of that is not leisure. Some is also corporate. So I think it will keep increasing as time goes by and as numbers keep coming down in terms of infections. However, and having said that, if there would be another second wave, which nobody believes in India, like there has been one in UK or in the other parts of Europe, then it's a question mark whether it's a nine month story or a one year story or or longer. But the way things have moved in the last sixty, ninety days, I can tell you not a projection, but based on my personal experience of traveling to these cities that there has been a marked improvement versus when I first came, after my first trip maybe in July or something, and it was like you end up in a haunted airport. There was hardly anybody around in Mumbai. And it was also very carefully opened in Mumbai. It took much longer. Delhi had started, but Mumbai had a lot of breaks on, and corporate travel has or corporate business has a direct correlation to corporate travel. And most of the corporate travel does not happen on dry vacation, you know. You don't drive to destinations unless you're at the ginger level customer. They're usually flying from one destination to the other. Sure. This is very helpful. I just have one last question. Firstly, it's good to see, you know, me turning a bit positive in September. My last question is how is the overall booking for come coming up for the holiday season? And any early signs you are seeing would be helpful if you can share, if possible, to also quantify booking for the holiday bookings, you know, compared to the last year where we stand if if you have that and any kind of a rough estimate around it, sir. That that's that's all in this. See, the thing is that there is a lot of pickup is become very short term. If you had asked this question three weeks ago, I would have said it's slow. But in the last three weeks, we have picked up a disproportionate amount of business, and especially for these three months, October, November, December. Because when I said three weeks ago, it included the remainder of October. So last ten days of October for us and going forward November, December, I've seen a significant pickup. But as your question the previous question rightly pointed out, the and also of the previous person who had raised questions from HSBC, Most of these pickups that we are seeing is on leisure, and obviously, all of it is domestic. We'll see what happens once international travel opens up. And on leisure, definitely, Rajasthan is leading the way. Goa is leading the way. Kurk and areas around Kurga are leading the way. Shimla, Rishikesh, you know, these are destinations that are doing very, very well. And if somebody's going to Shimla, then they're also stopping a night in in Chandigarh. So a lot of those kind of travel is happening, and there is a lot of pickup on that. Definitely, Christmas, New Year, we are seeing a surge in bookings. And the destinations I I I just mentioned, I can tell you, they might even be performing better than last year. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We take our next question. Yeah. Hi. This is Costa from Rare Enterprises. So I just wanted to understand what did you exactly mean by you've turned EBITDA positive in the month of September? Did you mean for your standalone business or the Consult business as a whole? And also could you just go a little bit more into detail in this as to how we have achieved this and the key components to this? Yes, sure. I think we did see that both in standalone as well as in consolidated. I think in terms of general EBITDA positivity, what we're now seeing is that with the pickup of business, we are slowly seeing the increase in the number of hotels which could potentially break even on EBITDA actually. And I think that is definitely now the language has changed. I would not use the language in the first quarter, but as the second quarter progressed and the unlocked bonus happened, we are gradually seeing that hotels will start becoming EBITDA breakeven, hitting EBITDA breakevens actually. So that is definitely a trend. And therefore, we are looking forward to Q3 in terms of business to see how many of the hotels get to EBITDA breakeven and what does it do at the network level. As far as September month is concerned, I think it was aided not just by operational incomes, but it was also aided by the nonoperational incomes which resulted in the EBITDA positivity in the month of September. And I think one of the things I want to emphasize both operational and nonoperational is that these are extraordinary times anyway. And therefore I think what is very important for us, Costco, is that it is nice to see a marker which is every time positive, which we have been wanting to see for a long time. So I think frankly it doesn't matter whether it comes through operation or non operation sector, we will definitely aided a little bit by that. But the bigger picture as I said, is that as the performance improves, I think you will see cities like Goa, cities like Delhi, cities like Bombay slowly start getting to EBITDA breakeven. I think that is what is the more important thing and that's why this quarter Q3 is important for us to see the pickup in business and achieve those milestones actually. Okay. Could you just what was your occupancy rate in September on a standalone basis for the domestic business? Yes, I understand. Just trying to relate EBITDA positive to your occupancy rate. Then the remaining would be nonoperational, that's why. So as you saw in the presentation, the occupancy in September was about 34.5%. That was the occupancy in the current year in standalone for the month of September. And there was, as compared to 30% in the month of August, the ARR definitely jumped, that's the other thing, it was not just an improvement in occupancy from 30 to 34.5. The ARR jumped from thousand and 87 to 6,500, which is nearly a 30% jump in ARR. So I think the quality of business, because as I said, the quarter time price came down and the and the FIT businesses picked up. So I think it's a combination of occupancy increase as well as rating, which is where we saw the transaction. Okay, great. And lastly, when you speak about non operational income, which aided EBITDA turning positive, could you speak a little bit about this? Do you mean the foodservice business? What else do you mean by non No, no, positive. Think if you see the stand alone exceptionals that we have just highlighted in our presentation. So we had a couple of standalone exceptionals. Like for instance, number one was the lease rental concessions under IAS comes as, what do you say, in the top line. But to be honest, even it is taken as expenditure, the EBITDA positive would have still occurred actually. We had a fair valuation of one of our financial liabilities which gave us about 20 odd crores in the exceptionals. So that is the only thing which came in which is I would say nonoperational. There was a small data flat which gave us three quarters or so. That's all. Okay. And any progress on our monetization strategy, simplification of organizational structure, anything from last quarter which is moving towards the right direction? I think as we have always discussed, monetization is something we are progressing on one or two of the monetizations. Are work in progress. I think some diligences are going on. So hence I think my sense is that in the next three months or so we should be able to announce the first of the significant monetizations actually. As far as the restructuring, if I remember you're right about restructuring in terms of structures, I think that will take some time. That will take some time. Okay. Thank you so much. Yes. Thanks, Kastur. Thank you. We'll take our next question. Hi, Sumant here from Motil Agarwal. So my question is particularly for the international business performance. So can you give more update on that? Yeah. Sure. So once you have some mixed bag, I'll just give a little overview and then let Gideon give the details. Dubai, because of IPL, is doing very well. The the hotels in The US and Cape Town have just opened in October, so they are not included in first half performance because, you know, there was a lockdown out there and especially in the state of California. When it comes to Maldives, it's picking up quite well. Sri Lanka had started and it went into a lockdown, so it's completely shut down. Bhutan, for us, is also shut down. So I think London, which we were expected to do much better, has gone down into a lockdown as of today or tomorrow for for for a month. But the the positive on this London and US is there have been a lot of packages given by the government, which reduce your both fixed cost and variable cost, which is in our control. So the so the impact on profitability is pretty much marginal versus last year, I would say, in the same time last year. Would is that fair, Gilly, to say? I think London. Yes. London, I think what has happened is that significant savings in London. Very clearly, absolutely. Yes. That is it. Okay. And what about The US? Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. No. No. I think you I think The US businesses were certainly down. Expenditure, there was significant expenditure control because as I've explained, Simant, earlier, about 85% of the urinary staff, we were able to do a temporary layoff for six months or so. And that resulted in the significant manpower savings. We were also able to follow and make some changes to the permanent staff there. I think that definitely helped. We also as you know renegotiated lease rentals, these discussions with seven ninety five corporations. All of those have definitely helped in terms of reducing the cost there. And you also see, of course, however, with US there are cash losses because of, you know, the nature of the operation and you have seen it in the standalone exceptionals and we had a 29 crore loss that we sort of reported in the standalone, which is reflected under exceptional system. Yes. Can you discuss more about the overall key customer mix changes in the key markets like Mumbai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore? And from where the demand is coming, like wedding or station and any other? See, the the the demand, Sumant, is different in different places. When Mumbaikers want to drive to go out, take a flight to Goa, or to go to Nasik, or to go to, you know, our newly opened Amma, homestay in Donabala or Mud Island. That's one way of getting the business. The other what we are seeing in Mumbai is a lot of staycation. It's people who live in hotels for a few days or nights because they have either bored or fed up of staying at home. So a lot of that is is is happening. And the rest is, you know, some you have some airline crews that stay with you. You have some other regular wedding business. You know, they're very famous wedding that recently happened happened at Taj Mahal Palace And Tower. So it brings in, you know, some some business. Doesn't bring in anymore, you know, hundred, two hundred rooms because so many are not allowed. But it does bring in business, and especially in the wedding season, we are seeing a lot of this occupancy coming in through that source. Limited corporate travel, more leisure. Okay. And and so this is really glad. We are seeing we are seeing some of those of people coming from places like Gujarat and Pune to Mumbai and stay in Taj Mahal, Pakistan. That also we are seeing more in more in Taj Lands' End. And how is the the IT companies staff were staying or pharma industry staff were staying? So this kind of customer is still there? Or It's pharma is yes. The answer is yes. But IT is no because the people who are best to work from home is IT. Right? So we have seen the short term reduction or fall in that IT source of business where it was coming from IT companies. And and there may be for the hotel business, the recovery for the next three, four months will be slower. But what will not be slow is, as I said before, the festivals, the weddings, the celebrations, and the normal corporate travel, it will come. It's already coming in slowly, but it's coming. So how is how is the inquiries for December and January for the waiting for the year end and new year? We already answered that some destinations are even expected to do better than last year, and some are not doing as well. I think what we what we are waiting for is for the big metros to kick in. Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore. If they kick in stronger in the next few weeks, then, you know, we can take that offline. You can give us a call in a few weeks time. We are expecting that, but we have not yet seen it. However, as I said, leisure destinations of Rajasthan, Goa, South Of India, even fishermen's cove outside of Chennai. These are doing very well on the weekends. Look. Can you give us $1.35 per order, the sales from new initiatives, Vekha? Which which segment coming more apart from human and all? Can we give a can we discuss that offline so that we can give you that second set of questions? Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Victor, we'll take our next question. Yes. Hi. Sorry, this is Achal from HSBC again. I had one follow-up question. So just wanna understand, basically, as we are we are finding that the leisure travel is leisure demand is picking up. And then, of course, we are entering the most busiest quarter, that is quarter number. But then what happens as we enter into the next quarter? Because then the leisure demand anyway will decline. Usually, there's no leisure and the corporate travel demand is slow. So how do you see following this quarter, how would the business take place? I mean, how the demand will happen? So if you could please talk about that. Well, we are seeing, as we mentioned before, a recovery in demand. Leisure is strong, but hopefully, the other segments start coming in too. You're right. Right after January 15, leisure will slow down. But in such a historic circumstances that we are all, you know, are are shocked and surprised with, you know, when revenues also hit to zero or as I said, they were as good as nothing was there. Then you see those jumps. And at some point of time, we started getting one day Bharat and we had the medical staff, and then they got replaced by higher paying people as Gilly just now mentioned. And the rate changed, but not the occupancy to that extent because a lower paying business replaced. Now when did our industry ever do one day Bharat or medical staff? So something or the other comes up and will come up going forward as the impact of lockdown is beginning to get diluted on all fronts. I think you all see it on the roads. You know, three months ago, there was not a person on the road. Or after every two or three minutes, a car used to pass by. Now suddenly, you know, if you go to better roads or party, whatever marine drive, they're full. If you go to Delhi, it's the same. You try to go from airport into the city, and you get a lot of traffic. So I think similarly traffic and normal business will keep coming back as has happened with the human civilization for thousands of years. So at some point, there will be an end to this also. It's not going to stay there forever. And when it ends, people will start traveling. Right. No. Fair enough. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you. We now take our next question. Hello. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. My first question was, can you give some breakup between business and tourist locations, hotel and inventory? What would be the difference between tourist and business and tourist locations in terms of occupancy, if you can give some light on that? And can you tell what can we do to improve the performance in hotels and business locations? In some of the business location or a city like Delhi, Bombay, where we would have multiple hotels. So can you give your thoughts on that? Yeah. I am Himanshu from PGIM Mutual Fund. This was the first question. See, the the I can tell you the trend is like this that for us, Goa is operating at almost in in the last six weeks or so or the four weeks or so. And going forward, we're expecting around 80% occupancy in, let's say, the established properties that we have under the Taj umbrella. And the business hotel that are at around 40 in the in the cities you mentioned. With the exception, one hotel in the city could be at 60 and another one is at 40. But, yes, there are there is one hotel in Delhi which does 60 for us. So so what can we do? We are doing and putting a lot of initiatives that I said in place. Up till now, you've seen a lot driven by wellness, by staycation, by the four d, you know, which which are, you know, more linked to driving to a destination. And now you will see us rolling out more and more corporate packages, and and and we think that we will be able to stimulate demand. But there is no point, you know, launching corporate packages when a lot of companies aren't saying that their people should not travel or avoid travel. Right? So that's a wrong time to launch a package. I think that is slowly subsiding, and lot of people are traveling now. Okay. And, yeah, second question was, what type of trends in booking you are seeing in the winter vacation period? What would be our plans to have good occupancy at that period of time when a lot of foreign tourists used to come for a long holiday season? Can we expect to get more domestic tourists to fill that space as much lesser people from India will move out? And any specific thought process or work we have started for preparing for those longer winter vacation period? Some thoughts of yours on those trends and how you the most profitable period We are seeing good yeah. We are seeing good demand for for holiday season. That's not a problem. There is there are foreign tourists not coming in. There are also 24,000,000 Indians who used to travel abroad who are also not going because it's not allowed to go. So that is your captive clientele. Definitely, there is a segment that used to pay a big premium from coming from abroad on our palaces, which are seven to eight palaces that we have in our portfolio that that used to attract a huge premium from from people of specialty, you know, foreign origin. That segment is missing, and we are working hard to compensate for it. But that's limited to seven, eight, or maybe 10 hotels in our portfolio. So we have more than 160 hotels in operation. Okay. But looking at the trends, do we expect the occupancy in the winter vacation period we can reach back because of Indians or the inquiry levels what you are seeing? Can we reach those levels back in this winter season? Or how you would See, as I said at the outset of the presentation in April, this year, we went to 7% versus 75%. Then I just know my colleague, Gideon, mentioned that on stand alone, your previous speaker had asked that question. We were at, like, thirty four, thirty five percent in standalone in the month of September. Right? Now that seven went to 35, which is five times more than five months. And we are experiencing similar kind of trends in on a on a month on month basis, the jumps are higher because you're coming from such a low base. So the no matter how high the jump is, it will be difficult to get to the same level as November, December of last year. Why is that? Because also the calendar last year was a bit different. And November, December were the two best November, December that one has seen in in several years. So so last year, the November, December figures were very high. It's difficult to get to the same level for us. That is not only difficult. I don't think that will happen. If we get to 75 or 60% of that level, we would be very happy because we are coming from, as I said, 7%, 10%, fifteen, twenty, 25, and we presented that Ginger is back to 53% of the revenue of of last year for the first half. Right? So so that is that is something we have to very closely monitor, but everything moves in the positive direction and on the way up. Yeah. Okay. And, yeah, one very interesting slide on and data on Ginger Hotels. Okay? Can you please tell what would be the reason for such good occupancy and performance for Ginger Hotels? And secondly, can we replicate some of those things at Veevanta, which is a business order, but at a premium to Ginger? And would it be right to say we remove the occupancy of Ginger Hotels from domestic network, the occupancy would be in twenties in that case? So these on Ginger Hotels. And one more, which would be the last. If you can reply to this, it would be helpful. In Ginger, the number of rooms is much smaller than the rest. So it will not go into the twenties. It will still get closer to to 30 and above. So that is not I don't I don't think that's the answer, but Ginger as a brand has been significantly repositioned in the last couple of years. So what we call the Ginger entered the LeanLux segment, and 10 of its properties were already repurposed, repositioned, plus the new ones that have been opening. The second thing is in many other locations, it has benefited because it's got a strong footprint in secondary and tertiary market. So it was not having so much of competition for, let's say, a ginger in Agartala was taking all the demand that was there in Agartala. Newly opened Ginger in Patna was doing very well. A newly opened Ginger in Kalinga, another is doing well. In Patna, it was doing well because there is Bihar elections. In Kalinga, another is doing very well because there was nothing else in in in the state of what he signed in this town. So a lot of Ginger benefited from that, but also Ginger benefited in places like Mumbai because Ginger was also hosting the medical staff. So so Ginger and Hairy, Teligalli or and Ginger and Hairy, Mark Ali did exceptionally well. Ginger and Malcro and Goa did very well. Ginger and Pantgin did quite well. So there are there are different markets, different dynamics, and we think this brand will continue to do well as as time goes by. This is I've said it in various interviews and various conversations. It's a brand to watch, but it's still small. It has 75 hotels in portfolio. Of which, there are 51 in operation, but these are small properties. Now we will be doing big boxes or or bigger properties, larger properties, and then you will see more and more an iron iron impact as and when they open. Okay. Okay. Very interesting insights. And one last question, once the business revise of hotel occupancies and dine in restaurants, let's say six months to one year down the line, how would we look at these new initiatives like QMIN? And do you think at some point of time, we'll need to invest in these businesses which we are seeding now? Or what would be our thought process? Because what seems these are interesting ventures. But just once the occupancies come up, how will we look at these new initiatives, what we are seeding currently? Just some thought process behind that. See, yes. This is not a short term initiative for us. We talked through this, and that is why we developed our own app also for it. So human is now live in 12 cities. We would be going to 20 plus cities, and we'll be doing several human shops. The second one will come at the ambassador in Delhi. The third one will be at the Kannot in Delhi. The fourth one in Mumbai, but outside the hotel. So so all these plans are already in place. And as I said, this is not that now pandemic is over. This is over. We would like to capitalize on this and take it to a professional level, as this line of business. We never thought the need for it because the people waiting outside the restaurants was so so many. So there was no need. And that they say that sometimes you reinvent yourself when there is a need, and this is how this line of business came. But this was a very large business even before the COVID. It was always there to home deliveries. Only hotel companies were not participating in it. And now hotel companies have come and become a disruptor for those who were doing it in this business just like OTS came and became the disruptors for hotel reservation systems. So lastly, you would like to invest in this business if it is required. That is very clear at some point of time when you're down the line. See, we don't we don't see any significant investment in this because we have the kitchen that I said before. We have the staff. We have the connect to the guest. We have the various our own list of guests and our platforms where we have access to those people, whether they come through chambers, which is our proposition, or they come through Taj Inner Circle, or they come through our strategic partners like American Express or HDFC or it's HSBC or, you know, I would say the entire banking world, or they come through any other source of, you know, various startup group companies. So we have a very large base that that is there. And as I said, we want to Mitch get to a mature phase of this business and to grow it further. We have no reason to now stop. Okay. Thanks, and best of luck for the future. Yeah. You. From my side. Thank you. We take the next call. Sir. Yeah. Please go ahead. No. No. I was just saying, I I I think we have about five more minutes, I think. Just wanted to be conscious. Okay. We have one last question, Can we go ahead and take it? Yes, please. Okay. Thank you, sir. Hi. This is Archana from IDVA Capital. I have three questions. Firstly, on the corporate account side, what kind of discounting we should expect if at all when it will come for renewal soon? No, I think historically our corporate business has been about 15% of top line. It's never been a very significant number in terms of corporate business. And I think and being in the segment that we are, I think you should expect that we are not going to unnecessarily discount because we do get leadership and we've always maintained leadership. So hence, I think, yes, there will be some impact from pricing, but but I think we will maintain leadership and it's not ever been a very significant part of this. Sure, sir. That's helpful. Secondly, is there any change in our collaboration with the OTAs, considering current crisis size in terms of revenue sharing? And also, you can give us a mix between our, you know, customer coming from, OTAs and our own portal? Yeah. You know, maybe, Gideon, I can answer. This is this is we have gone the other way around. And, if you would look at it, we have with one or the other OTA launched a strong partnership and campaign because the crisis is a time for collaboration and not to keep diverting businesses and going into those kind of strategies. That's when you're already at an optimized level of 80% occupancy, and then you want to get the last 10 through your own sources. Right? Here, if you're coming from a base of 15 or 20, and you're in the middle of a crisis, you have to synergize as an industry and come together. And I can tell you that the industry has come together very well in in the last six, seven months and has worked jointly, whether it is OTAs or it's airlines or it is hotel businesses. And I don't see any change in that trend going forward. Over to you, Gideon. No. I think that's right. And I think I think absolutely these collaborations are working. And as you know, I think the OTA share is definitely going up as a result and it will continue to grow. So nothing more to add for myself. Sure. And tell you on the debt transfer, how we should look at this number for FY 2021 and how are you planning to bring it down, let's say, three years down the line? Think one of the things you know is that we are following an asset light strategy and therefore I think the future CapEx is in terms of investments are definitely coming down. Clearly the future, I mean it's very difficult for me to talk about what happens in the next two, three years, but definitely it will be a combination of continuing to pursue a satellite monetizations that we spoke about. We need to see how the business picks up in the next, what do you say, few quarters as they go forward. So all of these should help. But and if you see our net debt to EBITDA, I think it's still at around point five or so. It is not as if that we have reached a lagging proportion. We continue to keep track and continue to remain focused on that. At this stage, I think that's probably the best answer I can give in terms of making sure that we keep a close track on that and tracking it almost on a monthly basis actually. Sure, sir. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. You, Vitapir. There are no further questions at this time. Mr. Giridhar, I would like to turn the conference back to you for additional or closing remarks. Thank you so much for participating in today's conference. While we are closing the conference now, of course, please do reach out to me and we will and for any further questions And we will continue some of our investor dialogues in any case post today. Thank you very much. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.