Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Sagar Cements call to discuss the acquisition on sort of the recent acquisition announcement on Andhra Cements Limited. Please note that this conference is being recorded. On this call we have Mr. Sreekanth Reddy, our Joint Managing Director, Mr. K. Prasann, the Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Rajesh Singh, Chief Marketing Officer, and Mr. R. Sridharan, Company Secretary. We will begin this call with a brief opening remark from Mr. Sreekanth Reddy, following which we will have the session open for an interactive Q&A session. Before we begin, I would like to point out that some of the statements made in today's call discussions may be forward-looking in nature, and a note to that effect was stated in the CONCALL invite sent to you earlier.
I would now like to hand over to Mr. Reddy for his opening remarks. Over to you, Sreekanth.
Thank you, Gavin. Good morning, everyone. We are happy to inform that the National Company Law Tribunal, NCLT, has since approved the resolution plan submitted by us for acquisition of Andhra Cements Limited on February 16th, 2023. This acquisition is aligned with our strategy of consolidating our presence in established markets to better service our customers in a cost-efficient and a timely manner. Furthermore, the acquisition will also help us meet our objective of reaching 10 million ton capacity by 2025. We believe the acquisition cost of $56 per ton, including the upgradation, is competitive and will help us create value for all our stakeholders in the coming years. We propose to spend INR 762 crore for acquisition, restart CapEx of INR 85 crore and an additional INR 75 crore as working capital and other costs.
Barring unforeseen circumstances, we expect to start commercial operations by end of Q1 FY 2024. Our board has approved an additional CapEx capital outlay of INR 468 crore for enhancement of the clinker capacity to 2.3 million ton from existing 1.65 million ton, and the cement capacity to 3 million ton from 1.8 million ton at Dachepalli Cement Works of Andhra Cements Limited. We are hopeful that the enhanced capacities will be commissioned during the second half of FY 2025. We are contemplating discontinuing the operations of the Vizag Cement Works of Andhra Cements due to the constraints resulting from the plant's proximity to the Vizag city. Our efforts are now directed towards operating these assets at optimal level to enable us to serve our customers better and create value for all our stakeholders.
This concludes my opening remarks. We would now be glad to take any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Thank you, Sreekanth. If, we'd be happy to take questions now. Those who have questions could please either raise your hand or enter your questions in the chat box. Preferably if you could raise hand and we could take questions. Yeah, Mangesh, please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, sir, and congratulations on closing the deal.
Thank you.
Sir, my question is, just if you can give more details on this acquisition cost of INR 768 crore in terms of how much was the haircut that was taken on the debt. I know you mentioned that Andhra Cement would continue to remain listed with 95% stake being with Sagar Cement. So if you can explain the equity as well as the debt component of it.
Yeah. Good morning, Mangesh. Thank you, Mangesh. As mentioned, it is INR 762 crore is the acquisition cost. This not only includes the purchase of the debt, but also includes the CIRP cost and the settlement cost that, for the other liabilities. The debt liability has been acquired at... Sorry, what is the cost of, for debt? The total debt is at INR 1,316 crore. That has been settled for-
725.
INR 725 crores. The balance, between INR 725-INR 762, yeah, is the CIRP cost, the legal cost, and the other liability settlement cost, Mr. Mangesh. I hope, that addresses the first part of your question.
Right. Second one on the equity, sir.
The equity what we, the Sagar Cements board has decided to do is to keep Andhra Cement listed so that we are aligned with taking care of the minority shareholders interest. The entire existing promoter equity would be extinguished. The current public shareholders holding would get reduced to 5%. What it translates is from the current paid-up capital of INR 293.52 crores would get reduced to INR 9.15 crores. What it translates is the public equity holders from 45 lakhs, 79,750 shares. From 9 crore, 15 lakh, 94,086 shares, they would get reduced to 45 lakhs, 79,704 shares.
We, the paid-up capital from INR 293.52, as I mentioned, would get reduced to INR 9.15. Which again, of this 95% would translate to 8 crores 70 lakhs 14,382 shares would be owned by Sagar. 45 lakhs 79,704 shares would be given by... Yeah, 1 minute, sir. Would be given to the existing shareholders, which would translate to 5%. All in all, let me also explain. For people who would own more than 100 shares would get 5 shares. For people who would own 20 and below, they would actually get 1 share each. I would again repeat, for every person who would own 100 shares and above-
Per share.
For each 100 shares, they would get 5 shares. For people who would own 20 shares and below, yeah, they would get 1 share. Person who would own 20 shares also would own 1 share. A person who would also own 1 share would also continue to own that 1 single share.
That's right.
Yeah, this is as per the plan, Mr. Mangesh. I hope I could clarify the question that you have had.
Yes, sir.
We'll be happy to share the numbers because these are all bunched up numbers, so we would be very happy to share those numbers if you could require them.
Okay, sir. Sir, any covenants to this deal or any liability for operational creditors that would be pending after this?
See, as per the plan, the current liabilities for the operational creditors has been adjusted at 5% to their, overall kind of, outstanding liabilities they have. They have been adjusted for 5%, sir.
Okay. Okay. Sir, last question on the Visakhapatnam grinding unit. You mentioned that you may discontinue the operations there. You would be selling the land there to basically cover some of the cost?
Yeah. Mr. Mangesh, at this point of time, as I mentioned, the Vizag asset of Ambuja Cement has become part of the city. There is a restriction in terms of both inward and outward movement of heavy trucks.
Mm-hmm.
They are restricted between only night 9 and morning 6. I'm sure you are aware that it may not be a feasible option for us to run a cement plant with that kind of restriction.
Right.
Secondly, the asset is reasonably old. These are with ball mills. You know the slag mill, Vizag is more a slag market.
Right.
Running slag cement with ball mills, we believe that it's not a feasible option. Having a reasonably modern and a big asset in the close proximity, we thought we will make use of the existing asset of Bayyavaram of Sagar Cements for managing the additional incremental volumes that we need to service from Andhra. This is that. At this point of time, the land monetization and all those issues, we would probably come back in some time. At this point of time, the decision has been made to shut the operations. On a medium term, for sure we would like to monetize the real estate, what exists in that particular location, Mangesh.
You'd be able to use the plants there or no? You said it is because it is old ball mill, it may not.
These are ball mill, though it's of a very good quality asset, but these are ball mills, so they are not as efficient as the new vertical mills or the roll presses. The idea is not to make use of that. Though we might still cannibalize some of the equipment wherever it is required for some portion of it. As such, that asset probably we may not put to use, Mr. Mangesh.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks a lot.
Okay.
Congratulations once again.
Thank you, Mr. Mangesh.
Thanks, Mangesh. Manish, would you like to ask a question?
Yeah. Thank you. Sir, my question is, firstly on the limestone availability at the parent plant. What kind of reserves are we looking here? Is there an opportunity to add another line or, obviously you are extending this clinker line. What is the growth opportunity there? Second question is, actually relating to Vizag. What is the current land value that you would be having? As you mentioned in the presentation, it's about 107 acres of land in Vizag city. Thank you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Manish. Manish, the limestone resources that are available in the Rajapelly unit of Ambuja Cement is around 180 acres and of a very good quality. For expansion, definitely is available because we could, we could develop for at least one year deposit line, we could comfortably double it up. That probably addresses the first question that you have had. The next part is the land value at Vizag. As you rightly mentioned, and which we have made part of the presentation is there is 107 acres of land at Vizag. That land, the government value, because the, the government value itself is at INR 4 crore per acre. I'm translating because it's an industrial land.
This industrial land, the government rate is given as per square yard.
Yard.
Yeah, the square yard. It's roughly translating to around INR 4 crores per acre. It's part of the city, there is lot of apartments and everything all around. The ongoing market rate looks to be much, much higher. We are yet to do that exercise, we would be very happy to revert as and when we come to some understanding about this particular thing of converting this into multi-use or whatever, what could be the potential value. As such, the government rate is roughly INR 4 crores per acre. Mr. Manish.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side. I'll come back in.
Thank you. We take the next, we'll take the next question from Ramesh Behera.
Hi, Sreekanth sir. First of all, very congratulation, the way we have, like, you know, acquired this deal. Secondly, it's really honor and grateful that, probably we are the second time, like, after Tatas, like, we protected minor shareholders. I heard, like, Bhushan Steel, they have protected minor shareholders, and now Sagar Cement protecting the minor shareholder of Andhra Cement. That's really appreciate and grateful to you. My question here is, sir, like, when can we expect the Andhra Cement will be start trading and with new shareholding pattern? What exactly would be the total debt for the consolidated debt for the Sagar Cement after this acquisition? What exactly the roadmap to decrease this debt?
Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Ramesh. As mentioned, we are taking care of the minority shareholders interest in-
Really grateful, sir. To be honest, like, probably many people or many across India retailer invested in Sagar and Andhra Cement, and they're really thankful from the bottom of heart that you have protected their interest and their family, maybe their savings. We're really grateful that we are associated with you, sir.
Mr. Ramesh, we did present the overall consolidated debt that includes even Andhra Cement acquisition in our investor presentation. Just for the comfort, the gross debt inclusive of the acquisition and everything would be at INR 1,644 crores. The net debt would remain much, much lower. We have also indicated the principal and as well as the interest payouts spread over next five-six years at a consort level. The net debt would be somewhere around INR 1,432 crores. We believe over next four-five years, we should become net of debt also. I mean, we probably should remain in cash by FY 2028.
This is without considering any of the monetization or a potential kind of dilution which we have to do, which is mandated from a regulation perspective. From the current 95% shareholding, within 12 months we need to reduce it to 90%, and within 36 months, we need to reduce it to 75%. Historically, we have never encashed on our stake holding. We believe that all these resources will be put to use to ensure that the stakeholders would get maximum value.
Yes.
Given that scenario.
Sreekanth sir, adding to these questions, like when we can expect the new company will it be the same ISIN number?
I think Mr. Ramesh, the current work in progress. We believe it should take 90- 100 days for us to fulfill all the requirements as per as the re-regulatory requirement is concerned. It's not only SEBI. We need to fulfill quite a few steps. Internally, from what has been discussed and what we have understood, it should take anywhere between 90- 120 days, Mr. Ramesh.
Once again, congratulations, sir, for this achievement.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ramesh. I'd just request if anybody has further questions, please raise your hand and we could maybe voice, we take those questions. The next in line we've got Sumangal Nevatia. Sumangal?
Yeah, thank you, sir, and many congratulations for this great strategic deal. Just one clarification for this Vizag land: Is it our endeavor to monetize it or any, I mean, joint development or some other something which we can explore, number one? What is the rough timeline we are looking at?
Mr. Sumangal, as indicated, the whole idea is to monetize. We are not into the real estate. At this point of time, we would start evaluating all the options. Our intention is to monetize. The work that we need to do, we roughly have estimated, but it's not in its complete shape. From whatever little work that we have done in that regard, it should take anywhere between 18-24 months is what our team has indicated. We would do whatever it takes to get the maximum value out of it. That's what I would like to highlight at this point of time.
Yeah. Thank you, sir, and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you, Sumangal. Management, I just voice a text that has been made by Mr. Deshpande, by M. Deshpande, before taking the next question. He says, "It would be helpful if a presentation could be made on NSE and BSE mentioning the broad numbers of the deal since this is material information or working about the reduction in number of shares for public shareholders of Andhra Cement can be uploaded on the BSE, NSE, and that would help in price discovery post-acquisition. Andhra Cement is currently listed in IRP 1 in BSE, scheduled to take this out of IRP 1 group. That would help as well."
Yeah.
Wait.
Yeah. Noted the observation, sir. At this point of time, it's work in progress, so we would be extremely happy to come back and upload the stakeholders of both Sagar as well as Andhra Cements. What the overall kind of shareholding pattern and the specifics of those would be uploaded. I did address in the earlier query about what we have given to the resolution plan. We would. I would be extremely happy to repeat just for the benefit of it. From the current INR 293.54 crores of paid-up capital, which has roughly 69% promoters holding would be annulled.
The balance public shareholding, which is close to 9 crore 15 lakh 94,086 shares would be compressed to 5%, which would again be adjusted to the current paid-up capital adjustments from INR 293 crore. It would be adjusted to INR 9 crore 15 lakh 94,086. The public shareholding from INR 9 crore 15 lakh 94,086 would get reduced to INR 45 lakh 79,704, which would constitute 5% of the adjusted paid-up capital. The balance would be owned by Sagar Cements. Sagar Cements is infusing INR 322.2 crore of equity with INR 10 plus INR 27 as premium. every 100 shares and above, shareholders would be getting 5 shares. Hundred and...
For every 100 shares that public shareholders would own, they would be given 5 shares. Any person with 20 shares and below, he would get 1 share, sir. This is what I did make the presentation. We would wait for some more clarity before we would upload, and we would be very happy uploading this also onto the both exchanges, that is NSE and BSE. We would be happy doing it. Hope that addresses the queries that you have. Thank you.
Thank you. Before I just take Parth, any further questions, please raise hands. The next question from Parth Bhavsar. Parth, please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on closing the deal. Just one clarity. Firstly, I wanted to know that this Durga Cement works, Lachapalli plant, it has limestone reserves of 188 million tons, you said, right?
INR 198.
198. Okay. 198. Sir, we've already announced this CapEx at the plant, and what is the brownfield optionality like over and above this that we've announced?
I did mention that we could comfortably double for a minimum 50-year deposit life, Mr. Parth.
Okay. You can double the capacity from 3 million ton, right?
Yeah, from three to six. From INR 3 million.
Okay. Perfect.
We can comfortably go for 6 million for a minimum 50-year kind of a deposit life.
Okay. Sir, once we, you know, start operations at this unit by maybe Q1, Q2 FY 2024, what kind of, you know, profitability are we looking from this unit and what, at what utilization will it operate?
Now, Mr. Parth, at this point of time, it will be a challenge for me to go into very specifics of this because.
Right.
Yeah, it's work in progress. We believe that it should get aligned with the other operating units in the region which are in the range of around 55%-60%, Mr. Parth.
Utilization.
Yes.
Perfect. Like, So this would be over a period of time or like it, starting from Q1 itself?
Yeah. Mr. Parth, I think middle of Q1 is what we are expected to go live. We are getting into this off-season in terms of Q2, I'm sure as and when the season would come, I think we should get aligned with this.
Okay. Sir, any plans-
We are going to have Sagar brand itself, so it should not take big time is what we think for the ramp-up.
Right.
Mr. Parth.
Right. Any plans to put up any WHRS?
Yes, sir. I think it's something which we definitely would want to do it, but we would want to first get the plant operational before we start optimizing on those waste heat recovery and the associated things, Mr. Parth.
Perfect, sir. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you.
Thanks, Parth. The next question we take is from Nishant Bagrecha.
Thank you so much, sir, and again, many congratulations for this deal. I have one question post this acquisition now, you will surpass the objective of reaching 10 million ton capacity by FY 2025. Now you'll be 11 million ton capacity company. Again, sir, your objective is to double the capacity every 10 years. Any change in the timeline post this acquisition now you got the approval from the NCLT also. Any change in the timeline for doubling the capacity or your focus will remain on to deliver the balance sheet?
No, I think, Mr. Nishant, every 10 years we double. I think that would not change. Would it happen in 2035? Would it happen in 2033 or 2035 is a question, but I think the stated objective is to double every 10 years. I think that's what we are focused on, and we will continue to focus on that. The deleveraging issue, let me assure you, sir, if you look at debt per every million, I think we are around close to INR 145 crores-INR 150 crores. I don't think we would be crossing that number at any given point of time.
Growth as well as the leverage sticking to as balanced kind of a leverage is something which we will always remain, and we would remain focused on those aspects, Mr. Nishant.
Thank you so much, sir, for your approach.
Thank you.
Thank you, Nishant. The next question we take is from Sanjay Nandi. Sanjay, please go ahead. Sanjay, if you could unmute yourself and go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, congrats on the deal, sir. Sir, can you please clarify on the price difference between Sagar and Andhra Cement, like at what price they used to sell, and once we change our brand from Andhra to Sagar, so what would be the incremental price difference we can get from that?
Yeah.
Thanks, sir.
Mr. Sanjay, I think, let us not get into the part because Andhra Cement had always multiple brands over a period of time. Initially they were Durga brand, then it became Duncan, then it became JP. For last more than 3.5 years, we have not seen the JP brand coming out of this particular asset. There is no point in discussing the potential kind of this thing. Whatever cement that would come out of Andhra would be sold as other cements which would be aligned with the current brand positions and the markets that we have always dealt with.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Sanjay. If there are any further questions, request you to raise your hand. From Manish Valecha. Manish, you have a further question, could you?
Yes, sir. Just a follow-up, sir. On the debt side, sir, how do we see the debt going forward and also the high cost debt, what is the plan for that going forward, sir?
Yeah, Manish, I think the high cost debt which was taken for this for the transaction would get closed before the end of this current financial year. It would be rolled over into the term debt at Andhra Cement level. That's a straightforward rollover. We did indicate in terms of for our next five years how the debt movement is happening on a quarter-to-quarter, Mr. Manish. It is presented part of the analyst presentation that we have done for the acquisition. Specific to this acquisition, we have made a presentation to the exchange as well as we did share. We did indicate the reduction of the pattern of the debt. Let me again update.
With the acquisition, yeah, the gross debt would be hitting around INR 1,644 crores. This includes working capital of INR 272 and a term loan of INR 1,372. From next year onwards, we believe that it should start slowly sliding down because we do have some moratorium for some of the debts that we have taken in the past.
I'll call you back in five minutes.
If you look at the net debt movement, the current net debt is at around INR 1,432 crores. We do believe that it would strongly come down over the next two- three years to become net cash by FY 2028.
Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Manish.
Next question is from Amit Srivastava. Amit?
Yeah, congratulations on the deal. Really remarkable deal for you and for us also. Sir, my question is related to the plant operation, basically. As we have guided that we will operate at a 55% or 50% kind of utilization, and what we understand that the plant is closed or shut down right now. Basically the markets are same, and now we are converting into the brand of Sagar only. How easy or tough it would be to ramp it up to 1 million ton incremental sales? Because we already have that much of capacity to ramp it up in the past, but this is how we are strategy-wise, how we are looking at. Second, we have a good track record of turning around the assets.
What are the levers we have in this asset to make it efficiency-wise? What is your sense once it will be upgraded, the plant's efficiency versus our existing plant, how it will be on operational side?
Thank you, Amit. The first question is pertaining to the ramp up.
Yeah.
See, we are not expecting any challenge as far as the market is concerned for the Andhra, because Sagar as a brand did hit Sagar plus potential kind of Andhra volumes historically in the past. These are not something which is new to us. We did sell Sagar plus Andhra kind of potential volumes couple of times even in the past few years. We don't see that as a big challenge for us in terms of the ramp up. Fortunately, we could not have better timed the acquisition than now, because the next couple of years it is likely that the demand in the regions that we are servicing or would potentially service are likely to grow at a much faster pace than what it has grown in the past.
Given that scenario, we are not seeing any of the challenges trying to put these incremental kind of volumes that are likely to happen from Andhra as Sagar brand into those markets. We are not expecting any major issues. Practically and pragmatically, what we have also done is we are not hoping to have 100% capacity utilization. We would, we would be happy to do that, but our internal estimation is that, you know, there could be an average capacity utilization of anywhere between 55%-60%. The overall acquisition, the overall, you know, the financial planning, the financial model is based that the market would offer 55%-60% average capacity utilization is what has been planned. Knowing the realization potential itself, it is planned.
At a $56 acquisition plus upgrade, we strongly believe that this asset would significantly contribute to its stakeholders, Amit. That part is given. Now, the question is, the asset was stopped very well, and I would like to assure you that asset is of a very good quality. The preheater is slightly of a older generation. It is a 4-stage preheater with a separate line 5-stage calciner line. Part of our plan is to make it into a double string 6-stage preheater for the upgrade.
When we conclude the upgradation, it will be one among the best assets in the market, leave alone with the current assets that we have, because we are going to adopt the newer technology coming from the best of the technology providers, so we are opting for a six-stage, twin string, inline calciner preheater that itself should significantly make it that much more efficient. Coming to the raw mill and the cement mills, yeah, these are new generation ones, which are already there. Some amount of optimization is what we need to do. We do plan for a waste heat recovery, and also the alternate fuel firing up in due course of time.
Given these issues, we strongly think over next 18 months to 24 months as the asset would be upgraded, it should get aligned with the best in the business. That should also help us save on the cost and we on the ESG front align with whatever we have disclosed in the past. The overall alignment we expect over two years' time to happen at Andhra with the current assets that we have, Amit. Hope that I could clarify the question that you have asked.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's really helpful. This plant has, sir, Singareni coal mines linkages also?
See, I think, there is a very small linkage that was there much before the asset was closed down. As it stands, there was a couple of bank guarantees that were issued which got encashed. Part of the NCLT resolution, we did request the court to give the direction. The NCLT court at this point of time said that we have to, on those specific thing, we need to go back to Singareni Collieries with a request to get it revived. As it stands, it doesn't have the FSA, Amit.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. That's it. Thank you.
Okay.
I'll just take a couple of chat questions before taking the next raised hand. Another question from Mayank Deshpande. Given the limestone reserves and land availability, what could be the peak capacity Andhra Cement can be expanded to? At the peak capacity, what could be EBITDA per ton? By when do you plan to expand Andhra Cement's capacity to peak capacity?
Noted, Gavin. The objective is to first, on a short to medium term, the idea is to stabilize. The plant, as I mentioned earlier, we believe plant can be expanded as many times, but what is very important is how long you want to keep the deposit. Our internal philosophy is that we would always have a comfort of minimum. 50 years deposit life is a minimum requirement for us internally. Given that scenario, we don't see a big challenge for it to double. That is from the current or the intended 3 million, it could easily double to 6 million. We would limit it to that, given the minimum deposit requirement that we internally have put for ourself. We could comfortably double. Yeah. Now, when we would double?
Yeah, the current status that we have always followed in the southern market is that we do not want to add any greenfield or brownfield at least for next 3 years, given the supply scenario. We are happy to acquire because that would not add any new additional volume pressure into the market. That's what we have done here. As such, we are also planning to expand, Upgrade the current capacity from a 1.8 million at the current location to 3 million. I think that's what we would like to stick to for next at least 3-4 years' time, before we're taking a call for the further expansion. Thank you, Gavin. I hope I understood the question that you.
Yeah. Just a related question on working capital. Can you ask about the working capital infusion? The indicated amount of INR 75 crores seems less.
Sir, I think that is what has been estimated. Yeah, as the ramp-up would happen, I think the requirement for working capital also is likely to go up. It's a situation where it's very situational. That working capital would definitely be expanded as the requirement would arise. We would be very happy if the working capital requirement goes up. That means we are in a very, very good operating ramp-up, and we should not hesitate to increase the working capital. This has been estimated with the current ramp-up requirement, Gavin.
The next question, Sreekanth, we can take from Naveen Sahadev. Naveen? Yeah, Naveen, please go ahead. Naveen, you're not audible.
Can you hear me? Hello?
Yes. Yeah. We can hear you. Yes, please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, Sreekanth, Sir, heartiest congratulations on the deal.
Thank you.
My question was on the debt front. Just to reconfirm some of these numbers. As at the end of Q3, your net debt was about INR 1,078 crore, which we are saying, post this acquisition, goes to more like INR 1,432 crore. Is that correct? All in, this debt, net debt from INR 1,078 crore will go to INR 1,432 crore. Is that a correct understanding?
Yes, sir. Yes, Mr. Naveen. I think your understanding is correct.
Correct. Then for next year, we are saying this goes down to, let's say, more like, INR 1,273 crore. I'm just trying to understand what net debt to EBITDA, as in, because we obviously will have FY 2024 as the first full year of Andhra volumes coming to us, and also our own volume growth that we'll see at Sagar, the original company. Overall, what is the comfort net debt to EBITDA you have in mind, is what my broader question was. Thanks.
Mr. Naveen, we did state in the past, let me repeat once again. We would not cross more than 4 times on a short term, slightly short term to medium term. We would not be very comfortable crossing that number to be net debt to EBITDA to be more than 4. At 3.5 itself we internally panic. We believe that it should be less than 3.5. To 4, we would not cross either way, Mr. Naveen. We would limit ourself to that extent.
Understood. That's helpful. Thank you very much and all the very best, sir.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Naveen. If there are any further questions, please raise your hand. Naveen, do you have anything else? Your hand is raised. One second. Oh, wait, there's a question from a name called Redmi. If you could identify yourself, please, and ask your question. Redmi? Yeah.
Yeah. I am Sushil Agarwal calling from Abu Dhabi. My only point was because other producers like the Shalimar Cement and all, they are increasing their capacities very fast. Maybe we need to review this doubling the capacity in 10 years. Maybe we need to review this one.
Yeah. Appreciate Sushil of your comment. Mr. Sushil , of your advice. We would definitely be cautious of your. We would definitely mull on that. The fact is that this is a large CapEx-driven sector. We are very aware of our bandwidth in terms of financially as well as that. We generally don't want to leverage. At the same time, we do not want to compromise on the market position. The number that we have kept itself is very, very ambitious, sir. We do not want to follow somebody just because he's going aggressive. It doesn't mean that we have to. We would definitely not let down the stakeholders wherever...
whenever there is an opportunity, without compromising the core aspects of, you know, not over-leveraging and not compromising on what we need to do to reach to that point in terms of efficiency. We would be more than happy doing it at a faster pace, Mr. Sushil.
maybe we can start, this, next 10 years from now, means like, 23-.
Noted, sir. I think every 10 years when we mentioned, I think, yeah, as I mentioned even in my earlier comment, instead of 2035, because earlier intent was to be at 10 million by 2025. Since we could save 2 years' time, I think same thing also could be applicable internally, we could definitely target. The next immediate target is to look at 50. We would be very happy to revert back to you, noting your comment. If, we would be happy to come back to you with, when we would like to achieve 50 million.
Yeah. Very, very congratulations. I find Means very, very, very managed very well. Means specifically in finance side, I find, it is managed very well. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate your comments on that.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from Abhisar Jain. Abhisar, you may go ahead, please.
Sir, many congratulations for closing the deal. Thank you so much for giving out all the details as you had promised that when you close the deal, you'll give the details. The disclosures seem quite good, sir. Sir, I just wanted to pick up on your comment about the land that we have at the Vizag unit, and which you said that you would like to maximize over the next 18-24 months and monetize it. Now, sir, the cash flows that we may get from there could be substantial, okay? I just wanted to understand that since we are already expanding Andhra from 1.8 to 3, and we are also ramping up our other capacities.
Once you receive that cash, would you want to plow it back into the business for further expansions, or would you balance out and look to deleverage first? I think for the next 2 years, we do have enough capacity in hand.
Yeah, Mr. Abhisar, as I mentioned, I think our leverage position is not bad, sir. I'm sure some people would have had comments on the leverage position. I think we are fairly comfortable on the leverage side. Of course, we once we monetize and we exactly know the contours of the likely receipt, two things we would want to do. One, we do have a waste recovery plan in mind, and whatever would be the surplus amount, we would ideally like to reduce the debt burden. This is the plan that we have in mind. We would be extremely happy to come back to all the stakeholders at the right time as and when we get more specific details onto any of these issues, Mr. Abhisar.
Okay. Sir, waste recovery plant at Andhra Cement you're saying, right?
Yes. Yes, sir.
Any ballpark, sir, would you have for this kind of 3 million capacity that you would want to set up?
Yeah. Typically it is 35 kWh per each ton of thing, sir. We believe that it should be anywhere between 7.5 to 9 MW is a possibility for that 3 million. I think that's what is a possibility even in Andhra.
Yeah. Sir, again, that will be, really small investment in that sense. The cash flow I'm just coming from the point, sir.
It is close to INR 150 crores, sir. We might want to look at some amount of optimization and all. Yeah. Mr. Abhisar, I mentioned to you. We will be very happy to revert as and when we know the contour of all the overall investment that is required. We would be extremely happy putting it to use once we know the exact numbers of the requirement and what would come in, Mr. Abhisar.
Got it. Sir, just last thing, now for the volume, you know, volume expectation for FY 2024, earlier in Q3 call you had mentioned around, say, INR 5.5 million from our existing asset, and you have indicated 50% utilization for Andhra now for FY 2024. Can we assume right around INR 6.5 million for the whole company that we'll target for next year?
I would not disagree with you on that number, Mr. Abhisar.
Okay. Understood. Thank you so much, sir, and best wishes.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question we have is from Vaibhav Kapoor. Vaibhav?
Congratulations. My question is with respect to the ramp up. What I understand is that out of the 2.6 million capacity of Andhra Cements currently, the 0.8 is not going to be... I mean, it's gonna be scrapped. The remaining is 1.8 million, which just to the previous participant, you indicated that there would be a 50% capacity utilization in FY 2024. Could you just give some clarity on the timelines and when this 1.8 would become 2.6 and then 3? If you could give some more clarity.
Yeah. Let me clarify. It's a 2.6 million with a 1.8 million at the Tachapally works and a 0.8 million at Vizag. As you rightly pointed out, 0.8 at Vizag would not be put to use. This 1.8 million, we strongly believe that should give 1 million ton for the coming year, that is the coming financial year. We don't see that as a challenge. Over next 18-24 months, we strongly believe that the upgrade plan, you know, at the existing location itself, from a current 1.65 million ton clinker capacity will be upgraded to 2.3 million, and the current 1.8 million ton grinding will be upgraded to 3 million over the next 18-24 months.
That is by FY 2025, middle of FY 2025. We are more than hopeful that these upgrade plants will be fully commissioned.
Okay. Okay. Just so that I've got it correctly, what I understand is that in the next six months to a year, this 1.8 million tons, you'll get approximately a 50% capacity.
For the next financial year, as I mentioned.
Yeah.
For FY 2024
Yeah.
We should produce 1 million ton is what we have indicated, sir.
Yeah.
We would want to stick to that.
Then in the next 24 months you'll ramp it up to the total 3?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
All right. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you, Mr. Vaibhav.
Thank you, Vaibhav. We have the next question, which is from, Vishal Periwal. Vishal, could you unmute yourself and go ahead, please?
Yes. Thanks a lot for the opportunity and congratulations on this deal. Just a clarification on the land part. Is there any upside or any amount that are we supposed to share with the creator whenever the transaction happens or the amount comes straight away to us?
Sorry. It's a clean transaction. There is nothing that we have to do with the outgoing financial creditors at all. It's a unencumbered and a free title is what we have inherited, sir.
Okay. Just maybe like, you know, trying to be a little critical. Sir, I mean, if you just do working of like 100 odd acres that you have and the government rate that you mentioned, and then, if you just do the working, then probably the acquisition cost comes to like, you know, pretty low rate. The deal is little amount on the good side is lucrative. Is there anything that we are missing out here or that you'd like to highlight?
Vishal, I don't know what you felt less in this way. Close to 2.6 million ton asset, even with an upgrade, it is costing us $56 without monetizing any of the land, sir. Do you think that anything more competent was done?
No, I'm saying on a positive side. It's like, too good to be true types.
Sir, I missed on that. Can you repeat, Mr. Vishal?
No. I... What I was trying to say is that, you know, if you just, I mean, like, you know, 100 odd acres and the rate that you mentioned, government rate of whatever you mentioned, and if you just do the working of it, then like, you know, the acquisition cost of INR 700 crores plus and eventually, like, you know, we are getting this deal at around INR 300 or maybe like, you know, plus some bit of CapEx.
Yeah, Mr. Vishal.
deal is too good.
No, no, Mr. Vishal, you should understand everything has its time, function of time with an assumption. Yeah. We took a call without having the land value into the system. I think that's what most of the industries would look at it. See, the encashment opportunity is a function of time. Yeah. If it gets more, yeah, we all look like heroes. Yeah. If it doesn't, then people would be critical. We are industrial players. We are not into the real estate. Our industry is not on the land. It's incidental. Let us look these two issues very, very separately. Yeah. We would be extremely happy for ourself and all our stakeholders, it becomes true and we could encash more, the deal itself could become free.
At this point of time, the transaction is happening with almost close to INR 1,400 crore kind of a contour for a 3 million ton. That includes the acquisition as well as the upgradation. Being in this scenario, we never wanted to miss on that opportunity. That's the reason why, though South region perceived to be slightly challenging, but at 50%-60% capacity utilization with this kind of value without monetizing on the land, it looked lucrative for us. Now, why others did not see, why We too did not see the land value at all, sir. So we specifically looked at what value this asset was coming purely as an industrial kind of a thing. Rest everything is only incidental, sir.
Only time will tell, how well we could turn it around from a stakeholder's perspective in terms of monetizing plus the overall kind of a structure, Mr. Vishal.
Okay, okay. No, that thanks for the clarification, sir, and congratulations once again. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate your input. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll have the next question from Ramesh Mehra. Ramesh, please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Once again, sorry for that. My question, sir, after this acquisition, is there any long-term debt remain with Andhra Cement, or it's finally closing with the amount you have mentioned in the presentation?
Sir, I think it is a complete, the balance sheet itself is cleaned and it is presented there, sir. We are not carrying forward any existing financial creditors. This is afresh, sir.
Okay. It's a kind of fresh investment for us and.
It's a clean transaction. It's a brand-new balance sheet is what we can safely assume, Mr. Ramesh.
Yeah. Sir, with this new capacity, like, are you taking any initiative like to promote our brand in other part of the area rather than sticking with Telangana, Andhra and Tamil Nadu?
Sir, I think we typically have indicated even in the past, Mr. Ramesh, about the lead distance approach. We would aggressively pursuing the same similar strategy when it comes to the lead distance. We would not be very different from what we have been so far. It doesn't make compelling reason for us to go far. We would consolidate the positions where, which are in the footprint area of each of the asset, Mr. Ramesh.
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. Yeah, let me assure that the captive area is itself, very much available for us, as far as the volumes are concerned. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Sreekanth. Thank you, Ramesh. If there are no further questions, Ramesh, do you have a further question? Your hand is raised.
No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. I missed that could be.
We have one more question from, we have another question from Ritesh. Ritesh, could you go ahead, please? Ritesh.
Yeah, hi. Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, a simple question. How should we look at the capital structure of the acquired entity? I presume it will remain listed. If I'm a minority sitting in that particular entity, how should we look at the capital structure?
Yeah. Mr. Ritesh, let me again repeat once again. Yeah, from a INR 290, INR 293 odd crore of paid up, we are reducing it to INR 9 crore of INR 91 crores of paid up, Mr. Ritesh. That itself would give lot more comfort because for this size of an asset, INR 292 crore look big and heavy. Secondly, Sagar itself then had an option to infuse a part, but Sagar preferred to infuse at INR 10 plus INR 27 as a premium so as to ensure that the minority shareholders would have a good return on a medium to long term as the asset would turn around. From a INR 293 crore, we have reduced it to INR 91 odd crores in terms of the paid up.
That is the first part. The second part is the absolute minority shareholders, less than 20 shareholders, though might believe that they are getting 1 share, but even a 1 shareholder would remain as 1 single shareholder. That has been kept in mind, and we have taken care of it. For every 100 shares, the above 100 shares, every individual whoever is owning it, he will get 5 shares for his 100 shares of he owning those shares, Mr. Ritesh. That's the structure. We strongly believe that the minority shareholders have been kept in our mind in the overall kind of restructuring of the capital is concerned, Mr. Ritesh.
Sure. Sir, how should we look at the effective tax rate of that particular entity?
I think we should be in MAT for at least couple more years because there is an accumulated losses of more than INR 1,000 crores, Mr. Ritesh.
Sure. Sir, last question. Will we look to simplify the structure going forward, say, three years out, five years out?
I, my, at this point of time, it is too soon. We would for next three years, we know we would want to stick to what we have clearly stated. Before we would turn around, we would be happy to come back. At this point of time, since it's just coming to the fold, yeah, this is the plan that we have.
Sure. Thank you so much, sir. I wish you good luck. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ritesh.
Thank you. We got a couple of questions from the chat. Is there any plan to merge Andhra Cement with Sagar Cements over the next two to three years? Or would Andhra Cement continue to remain a separately listed entity in the long term?
Yeah. The, for this question, I just addressed.
Yes, you have.
Let me repeat once again. Yeah. The plan at this point of time is to stick to what we have indicated, that we would want to keep it listed. Yeah, we need to reduce it to 90% in the first 12 months, before the end of 12 month. Before the end of 36 month, we need to dilute it to 75%. When we reach to that point, we would want to take the call, but for such time, we would want to.
Thank you.
We would want to stick to this plan.
Thank you, Sreekanth. Since we do not have any further questions, we could close the call. Sreekanth, would you like to make some final comments?
Yeah. Thank you, Gavin. We would like to once again thank each one of you for joining the call. I hope you got all the answers that you were looking for. Please feel free to connect our team at Sagar or CDR should you need any further information or you have any further queries, and we'll be more than happy to discuss them with you. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you.