Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to JB Pharma's Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call as on the seventh of February, 2024. As a reminder, all participant clients will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jason D'Souza, Executive Vice President, JB Pharma. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Rayo. Welcome to the earnings call of JB Pharma. We have with us today, Nikhil Chopra, CEO and Whole Time Director, Kunal Khanna, President, Operations at JB Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited. Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statement in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve certain risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available in the Q3 FY 2024 results presentation that has been sent to you earlier. I would like to hand over the floor to Mr. Nikhil Chopra to begin the proceedings of the call and for his opening comments. Over to you.
Thank you, Jason, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today on JB Pharma's earnings discussion for Q3 and nine-month FY 2024. During today's interaction, I shall cover progress made by the business during the quarter, the imperatives that lie ahead and underline the strategy for the growth. I will commence with Q3 results, where yet again, our domestic business has stood ahead of the market in terms of performance. Let me bring up highlights of Q3 FY 2024 results. We reported revenues of INR 845 crores, up 12% year-over-year. The overall revenue growth was impacted by strategic choices made in international business, especially South Africa. Excluding South Africa business, our revenue grow by 10% in Q3 FY 2024 and 14% in nine months, FY 2024.
However, while the strategic decision impacted our top line, it boosted operating margins for overall business. Further, given our cost optimization efforts and favorable product mix, we also saw a marked improvement in gross margins by 53 basis points in Q3 FY 2024 versus Q3 FY 2023. We reported considerable gains in operating EBITDA margins, which stood at 27.8% in Q3 FY 2024. Turning the attention towards domestic business, we saw a handsome growth of 14% to INR 462 crore in Q3 FY 2024, which was on the back of continued traction in the chronic segment and recovery in acute business. JB Pharma stood as the fastest-growing company within top 25 IPM, as per IQVIA MAT, December 2023 data, growing at 16% versus 10% IPM growth.
With focus on chronic therapies and lifecycle management, we have further enhanced our market rankings for our all key brands, which has been shared in the investor presentation deck. The acquired portfolio is also showing a traction, and we are already looking at Sporlac as one of the big brand to be in INR 100 crore brand club. It, too, has jumped 30 ranks year-over-year, standing today at 331 rank as per IQVIA MAT, December 2023 data. If one looks at Sporlac franchise in its GI and in totality, this is now INR 121 crore portfolio as reported in IQVIA MAT, December 2023 data. In keeping with our strategy of having leading brands within our offering, we entered the ophthalmology segment via our agreements with Novartis.
We will now rank among the top four players in the covered market in ophthalmology segment. We have a strong portfolio of leadership brands in this segment, with five of the brands being at number one position and another four in top three in their respective molecule market segments. We remain excited about this portfolio because the ophthalmology segment is expected to outpace IPM growth consistently. The deal is in line with our thesis of entering into high-growth, progressive portfolio segments with high market share in the IPM. Over here, I would like to emphasize that in past three years, we have managed to transition the India domestic business from operating in stable, less growth segments to now operating majorly in progressive segments.
If you notice, our CVM is growing at 12%, that is covered market for JB is growing at 12%, and JB domestic business within that CVM is growing at 16%. The covered market growing at 12% is 200 basis points higher than IPM, indicating the progressive nature of India business. This will ensure sustainability of India business growth for a longer period of time. The addition of ophthalmic portfolio will only increase our CVM growth opportunity. All this points to a progressive portfolio for India market, which I emphasized upon joining the organization 3 years ago. Moving on to the international business, we reported a revenue of INR 383 crore in quarter three, FY 2024. This includes South Africa, which when we exclude the business, has reported a modest growth in quarter three.
CDMO, moreover, has seen a minor dip during the period, owing to base effect of quarter three last year, historically being the slow season for the business. However, I'm happy to share that the order book for the forthcoming quarters for CDMO looks very healthy.... The export branded business, export branded generic business is doing very well and remain optimistic about that part of the business in international markets. I will share key pointers for our nine-month performance now. The nine-month FY 2024 revenues rose by 10% to INR 2,622 crores. This comprised domestic revenue of INR 1,432 crores, up 14%, given impactful execution of our strategies. The international business saw formulation growth of 6% to INR 802 crores during nine months of FY 2024. On the backing of strong exports in ROW market.
Strategic decisions regarding South Africa business continue to impact the international revenues, excluding which the growth was in double digits. Our operating EBITDA, excluding ESOP charge in nine-month period, came in at INR 729 crore, while the margin stood for at 27.8% for the nine-month FY 2024. Going forward, execution is going to be the key in such a volatile environment, and we are in position to respond with agility in terms of portfolio and business mix decisions. JB Pharma will continue to pursue growth in domestic market, led by its chronic strategy. You have seen the momentum of our brands, brand focus approach, both on organic and acquired portfolio basis. Along with the domestic business, our CDMO business will also remain the area of focus, as mentioned earlier.
Looking forward, we would like to continue focusing on strengthening our brands in domestic market and making them bigger, while focusing on the recently acquired portfolio. Internationally, we are ramping up our CDMO business, where we have seen a good traction of our innovative offerings, and also have identified opportunities in our ROW markets. We run a healthy balance sheet, and our cash flow position continues to be strong. With this, I would also like to inform that we have appointed our new CFO, Mr. Narayan Saraf, effective from February 23, 2024. Mr. Saraf is a qualified chartered accountant and cost accountant, and has two decades of work experience in the field of finance and accounts, working with companies like ONGC, Hindustan Unilever, Cipla and Thermo Fisher India Private Limited.
With this, I'll conclude my opening remarks and wish to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you all for patience, hearing.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue settles. To ask questions, please press star and one. The first question is from the line of Rashmi Shetty from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on good set of number. Sir, on your Ophthal portfolio, if you can give more color on it, that you know, since it is an in-licensed drug, you know, it's what impact it will have on the, GCs that is gross margin, on annual basis from the current levels, and also, your other expenses or employee cost, is expected to go up because of this portfolio, in terms of promotion, marketing, and you have also hired 75-80 MRs. So if you can give more picture on, you know, how the EBITDA margin could look like, you know, FY 2025, 2026, and also, this will be reflecting in quarter 4. So, is your EBITDA margin excluding this drop of 25%-27%, intact in FY 2024?
In case of ophthalmology portfolio, and this is for the group, we would like to reserve our comments, but what I can speak right now, it's a starting point. We would like to wet our feet, get to understand the business better in first 100 days, that is quarter four, starting quarter four, and it has been 15-20 days of operation. It's as reported in IMS, it's a INR 200 crore business, and the portfolio that we are present in is more in the world of glaucoma, NSAIDs, anti-allergics, that is where we stand. Overall, from a guidance perspective, including our ophthalmology portfolio, which we have got in, our guidance continue to be remain 25%-27% for the coming year also.
More color on ophthalmology, once we get to know the market better, we'll be able to talk about it post our quarter four results.
Sir, and this 25%-27%, you're talking about the operating margin, right? Including this.
Yes, yes. Right now, what I spoke about 27.8%, the guidance remains same.
Okay. And related to your international formulation business, in South Africa-
Yeah.
you know, this rationalization activity will take how long, whether it will be continued in FY 25 also? If you can give, that picture. Also, currently in South Africa business, what is the mix now after rationalization, of the ratio between your private as well as, the tender business? Because earlier it was around 50/50.
Earlier it was 40/60. 40 was private and 60 was public.
Okay.
This rationalization will continue till end of quarter one. Next couple of quarters, you should see that impact. I'm happy to share that this $25 million-$30 million business that we are doing in South Africa this year, the contribution has reversed. Now, today, private is contributing around 60% and public is contributing around 40%. That is where we stand, and we are looking at more and more opportunities. How do we improve our share in private market? How do we get into some consumer business? We have launched some of our own lozenges in South Africa market. Once all those things starts doing, start contributing, we'll be sharing more color on that.
Okay, sir. Excluding South Africa in the international formulation business, is you know you're getting any prospect from the U.S. because there you know price erosion seems to be softening and overall improvement in the market dynamics. So is the U.S. business becoming sizable or it is the same?
No, our U.S. business is close to around $30 million.
Mm.
And earlier also, what we have mentioned in our, in our earlier commentary is, we conceptually the model is, is a cost plus model, where we have-- we as a company own 15 ANDAs, and we have been, we have been filing 4-5 ANDAs every year. Eventually, in a couple of years, 2-3 years, you should see this business from $30 million going to $50 million. No plans in terms of getting directly representation in U.S. business, and this is where we stand. Our aspirations are not that big for the U.S. business.
Got it, sir. And one last question: you have given a CVM growth of 12% in the domestic business. Can you give the CVM market share also?
Market share, we will.
We can come back to you.
We can come back to you.
On that figure.
But it's a good opportunity size, CVM presence that we have got. But offline, we'll be more than happy to share that with you in the coming time.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Yeah.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from the line of Tauseef Shaikh from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is on the ophthalmology segment. Say, existing brands doesn't have any product for dry eye segment, and which I believe is one of the largest segment in the total eye care market, if I see. And in the previous comment, you have said the existing agreement doesn't stop you from launching any new products. So any comments on those scenes? Do you have any near-term plans to launch dry eye products?
Which products?
Uh-
Dry eye.
Dry eye. Dry eye, yeah, in dry eye category.
So earlier, I think what I shared, please, I think you should. You will have to excuse us for comments coming into the ophthalmology opportunity. What I shared earlier, let us get to understand, we are using this time period to understand the market better. And post our Quarter Four results, probably in our Quarter Four commentary results, we'll be happy to share more details in the coming time.
Okay. And second question on our M&A strategy now. We saw with Novartis agreement during 2027, I think it's clear from now. What is the M&A strategy for FY 25? Are you still looking for assets to be acquired?
Yeah, yeah. We are looking at, we are looking at opportunities. As and when tomorrow, we have a team, M&A team, who continue to evaluate assets. So as and when there's any opportunity, we 100% are looking at it. And as and when anything comes, substantial comes, we'll be more than happy to share with you.
Okay, thanks.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Alka Katiyar from Baroda BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Hi. Sir, if you can comment on your order book visibility for CDMO?
So our CDMO business average is around INR 100 crore a quarter, and I think there was a minor dip in quarter 3. That is, that happens every year, so that is not a worry. Probably, I think quarter 4, we should be close to INR 100 crore. And the way we have planned our business, getting into new geographies, which is a combination of Mexico, Brazil, some parts of Europe, getting into new therapeutic segments, more partners. This business, the guidance that we have given for this business in the coming time, which is around close to $50 million, 3-5 years, you should see this business going to $100 million.
Fair enough. Thank you, sir. Just now, if you can, like, you know, we have seen a QOQ gross margin expansion above about 140 basis points. So what were the major key drivers?
So as we had mentioned during the last call, you know, some softening of rates which have happened around Q1, the actual benefit of that, we would be realizing later in Q2 and majorly in Q3. So that's the key driver for improvement in gross margin profile.
Okay. Fair enough. That's all from my side. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dheeresh Pathak from White Oak. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. So what is the organic growth this quarter in domestic business?
Pretty much what we see, everything is organic, you know, and inorganic combined because all our acquisitions are in the base right now.
But maybe I have a wrong understanding. This, Glenmark, they will put full year. This was not in the baseline.
That's not making much of a difference to our overall, you know, growth numbers.
But that will be INR 15 crore particular rate, right? It adds 4 percentage points to the growth.
No, no, no, but then there is no, there is an impact of Azmarda, so I think that's what Kunal was trying to mention more from the-
...Net net, what we are trying to share with you-
What did you say?
Net, net, what we are trying to share with you that everything that we are counting is a part of no organic growth. That is, that is what you should take as a commentary.
No, sir, this is not very clear, because if you can just explain whether it was part of the base or not part of the base.
Part of December billing-
Part of the base, not part of the base, Ex of Razel, what is the growth?
Part of Razel billing was already included because it was acquired in the month of December. There was some billing which was included, right? What you have to neutralize is overall impact of close to INR 6.5-7 crores.
7 crore. Okay. So almost close to 2 percentage point goes away, so that 12% would be the growth, right?
Yeah, you can take, you can take that.
Just on that, the point which was added was there was value erosion of Azmarda also, so net impact pretty much remains the same. That's, that's the overall, you know, theme which we were coming to.
Understood. Okay.
Okay, sir, thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir, for taking my question. Sir, on the CDMO business, we were doing an expansion of the packaging line, and we had acquired a land parcel as well last quarter. So can you comment in terms of this capacity expansion progress on the CDMO business, and have we able... And any traction in terms of adding either new clients or new product, new products to this business?
So on the capacity expansion part, we currently have manufacturing and packaging capacity for 18 crore lozenges, which by end of Q2 was pegged at 13-14 crore lozenges. So that capacity expansion has already happened, and as mentioned in the last call, we would be ready with the you know actual throughput capacity of 18 crore by end of December. That's been executed as per the plan. On the customer addition part, there was one anchor client which was added last year, and there have been a couple of more added this year, but beyond that, we would not be able to comment anything at this stage.
Sure, sir. And on the margin guidance, which we have been given of 25%-27%. Now, if we look at our operating margins on a nine-month basis this year have been around 28%, and with the growth which we are talking about in the domestic business and the CDMO business, and the fact that incremental growth in India for us is being driven by chronic, don't you think that FY 2025 margins for- will potentially be higher than the range which we are talking about, given that this year itself we are closer to a 20% kind of a margin?
So, Rahul, this is Nikhil here. If you look at overall the business dynamics, overall what you... Everybody knows in terms of what is happening in the world of Red Sea, the freight costs have started escalating. There are some of the major APIs costs, which are also being on the higher side. And the way we are looking at business, fortunately, touch wood, we have been on the higher side of the guidance, but I think the guidance which we are comfortable is ranging between 25%-27%, which conceptually the teams at JB are confident to deliver.
Sure, sir. Apart from, let's say, any external shocks, be it in terms of increasing trade costs, do you think that we will continue to see a steady margin improvement going forward, or are we more focused in terms of deploying back some of this profitability to drive higher growth in the domestic business?
Sorry, Rahul, could you repeat the last second part of your question?
Whether this incremental profitability you want to invest back into the domestic business, either in terms of rep expansion to drive higher growth?
I think if there is no uncertainty and volatility, we should be maintaining, you know, the margins which we currently have, right? Because we don't necessarily have to invest significantly in part of our existing domestic business. We should remain closer to the margin profile which we have.
Sure, sir. Lastly, on the export business, now this year obviously has been a bit muted because of rationalization of the South Africa business. Do you see any other parts or in your export business which you can further rationalize in terms of any thoughts on rationalizing the Russia business, given that is also a low-margin business for us?
Russia, Russia business is not low-margin business for us. For us, it is a high gross margin, and we are into branded market, formulation marketing. There is nothing as that tomorrow we'll be rationalizing. This also, South Africa, the rationalization only has happened in the world of public market. So there is no point of rationalizing any other part of the business.
Okay, sure, sir. So, so you are saying that even the... I, I was asking about our own Russia business, X of the, the CMO supplies, which we-
Our own, our own business, yeah. So Rahul, the consolidated profitability because of the gross margin profile works in our favor. Whatever cost optimization initiatives need to be taken, we are looking at that. But as Nikhil mentioned, further opportunity for portfolio rationalization to improve, you know, the product margin mix, not specifically for Russia or CIS.
Sure, sir. That's it from me. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. You know, just a question on Azmarda. You know, given, in the last year, it seems like, you know, Azmarda isn't performing as well as we would have expected. Is that the case? Yeah, you know, how is it panning versus your initial expectations of the product, you know, post, the competition that has come in? And, you know, what do we need to improve the performance of, Azmarda from here?
So, you know, there are two parts to the Azmarda story. One is, how the market is growing, and, the second is, you know, how we are being able to kind of protect, you know, our market share in this growing opportunity. First of all, it's a growing and progressive market. Yes, as per our initial estimates, we would have, we thought that, you know, the market would grow by 2.5 times. It's not grown by 2.5 times, so it's grown by 2 times still, and it will continue to grow because it's a progressive category, right? We would not kind of state that, you know, we have underperformed in this market.
Yes, we had some higher expectations in terms of volumes increase, and the price is, you know, the competition is much more intensified because of some of the generics entry. But, that is no cause for panic because we continue to, you know, protect our market share. We continue to drive the therapy with the cardiologist. You know, the strategy execution is pretty much as per plan. Whether on month and month sequential basis, we should have been, probably 8%-10% higher. Based on our initial estimates, yes, we could have been higher, but we are on the right path, so we don't see really any reason to kind of be worried about how this, how the brand is progressing.
What do you think takes the, you know, our growth higher? It is just the category growth, that alone, is enough to improve the growth, or are we trying to do anything else differently?
The category growth in alone on a standalone basis will kind of ensure that we are growing in this market as well. So it's quite progressive, and Azmarda is one of the top three brands. So, you know, the category growth alone will ensure that we are progressing. Whether we want to, you know, Yes, we want to do more to increase our market share. Those efforts will always be, you know, undertaken by us.
Understood. And my second question, I know you did mention that, you know, you continue to expect that US over time will ramp up, but your model there isn't changing. But in terms of our filing strategy, you know, has that- is that changing versus what we have mentioned previously, or it's the same?
No, no, no change in our filing strategy. It's basically, you know, 3-4 filings per year. That is the run rate which we will maintain, and it will not be any specialty or complex products. We pretty much work with our oral solid dosage forms in the U.S. market, with the key differentiator being our osmotic release platform.
Understood. Sorry, one other question, a follow-up, if I may. Within the domestic market, you know, is there any therapy area we would like to launch more products, you know, in terms of white spaces in the focus areas that we're looking at it, you know, from a covered market perspective? You know, case in point being, let's say, Resp or pediatric, would you... I mean, is, are those areas where you want to do more, launch more products, expand your share?
We continue to launch 4-5 products every year. We would be more than happy to launch products in the world of GI, pediatrics, respiratory, cardiology. So that you will continue to see our new product contribution continues to be around 3%-4% every year. And I think we have got enough now portfolio in hand in terms of how do you leverage that and make the best use of what you have got in hand.
Understood. So we don't necessarily need to expand the portfolio to grow this segment?
So we will continue to. What I said earlier, we will continue to do lifecycle management in terms of where we are. You should see us launching in next quarter, pediatric version of Sporidex. You should continue to see versions of, better versions of products in the GI portfolio. Pediatric, you should see one or two product launch. So you should see four to six launches every year from our end.
Understood. Thank you so much for taking my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Utsav Jaipuria from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on gross margins. Over the last three, four quarters, there's been a very strong scale-up in the gross margin number. How much further headroom do you think you have on this account? Do you think we can get to, like, a 70-71% number?
You know, right now, this is the base which we want to work with. There are 2 key value levers for us, which has helped us scale up our gross margin profile over the last 6-8 months. One is the overall increasing mix of chronic, you know, within the domestic business, and the fact that, you know, our products, Razel and all, significantly started contributing to our overall portfolio mix. That is one reason, and there were a lot of cost improvement initiatives which were underway. So we are seeing the benefits of that. This is the base we should be working with. There are always efforts to improve, you know, whatever we can, and those efforts will always be pursued.
Okay, sir. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sayantan Maj i from UBS. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So just continuing on the previous question. So, within chronic, you know, what products or what product families would have, you know, significantly driven the improvement in gross margin?
For us, yeah. For us, essentially, the Cilacar franchise, the Razel franchise, the Nicardia franchise, and also we saw improvement in gross margins from Azmarda.
Okay, got it. And in Brazil, is the current run rate, you know, say, meaningfully higher than the pre-acquisition run rate of INR 50 crore? So, can you give some idea as to how that portfolio is doing for us?
We would not want to specifically comment on the internal numbers, but the market reflection is good enough for you to understand, you know, how the run rate has improved, pre-acquisition and post-acquisition. We are certainly seeing a significant, significant improvement in the uptake of this brand.
Okay, got it. And, also, there was a comment that other expenses, you know, were higher by 8% year-on-year because of, you know, some increase in, you know, freight costs. So, but if I look at it on a sequential basis or even if I look at, you know, versus 1Q, it has pretty much remained the same. So isn't that the impact of higher freight costs has still not come in, and do you anticipate, you know, some impact going ahead?
Sorry, could you just completely repeat the question? The freight cost was in future anticipation. Yeah.
Yeah. So other expenses, if I see, versus 1Q or 2Q, it has pretty much... I mean, it has been flattish, while there is a year-on-year increase, but sequentially it has been pretty much flattish. So do you expect these freight costs to impact in the future quarters?
There will be some very, you know, some level of impact, which will continue in Q4, based on what we have seen in November, December.
Okay, got it. And my final question is on CDMO. So in CDMO, I remember, you know, there was a guidance that, you know, you expect this business to contribute to 15%-20% of the total business in the near term, and $100 million from the current run rate of $50 million. So is it, is it really coming from the contribution from the new launches? You were working on some new disease areas. So is it mainly coming from there, or will it come from, you know, entering new geographies or adding new clients? So what will be the single most important driver of, you know, of growth of this business in the next one or two years?
There are three, three levers, which I have earlier explained. One is newer geographies, which we are trying to get into, and those geographies are a mix of Europe, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil. New partners, which I can't share right now. And third is new therapeutic segments. And probably second half of FY 2024-25, you should start seeing some of the new launches, seeing the daylight, which may be a combination of lozenges in the area of pain, in the area of sleep disorders, oral thrush, immunity, wellness, those sort of things are in the anvil. So it's a combination of new partners, new geographies and new therapeutic areas. And our guidance remains same, $50-$100 million in three to five years.
Okay, got it. Okay, thank you so much for taking the question.
Yeah.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants to please press Star and One to join the question queue. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask questions, please press Star and One. The next question is from Neelam Punjabi from Perpetuity. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations on some good set of numbers. My first question is on the domestic business. So, excluding the acquired ophthalmic portfolio, what's the growth rate that we are targeting for this business in the next fiscal year?
The growth, the Indian pharma market should grow at around, Neelam, around 10%. That is what, the way I see Indian pharma market growing. We should be growing at around 2-3, and it is better than the market.
Got it. Okay, and what's the growth rate that we're targeting for our international formulation business next fiscal?
Close to 10%.
Okay. My final question is on the ESOP expenses. This has gone up sequentially as compared to last quarter. What's the reason behind it?
There are some allocations based on the fair value, you know, which has been kind of adjusted, and that's why, you know, you see on a sequential basis, some level of increase. But from a, you know, going forward perspective, what you see as a quarterly ESOP charge, that's how it will remain, right? So you don't... You shouldn't expect any further increase.
Got it. So for the next fiscal year, what would be the ESOP expense, if you can help me understand that?
It should be close to 45-48.
Full year.
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press Star and One. The next question is from Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
... Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. Can you please comment in terms of what is our existing cash balance right now?
So we are basically, from a cash balance perspective, close to INR 136 CR net positive. Our operating cash flows are closer to INR 614 CR. So which is almost 84% of the YTD operating EBITDA, you know, as reported.
Sure. This is for nine months?
Yes. Yes.
Sure, sir. Sir, just on this comment which you made about the growth expectation for your India businesses-
Yeah.
Obviously, your covered market is growing at a 12% kind of a rate, then ideally, on an organic basis, our India business growth should be closer to 14%-15%, instead of, let's say, when you commented, you commented versus IPM.
Rahul, we have been always in line with IPM. The way IPM behaves, and you have seen over the last so many quarters, that is, we have beaten the IPM performance. What guidance I've been telling, if market is growing at around 8%-10%, we should be 2%-3%, and it is better than the market.
No, no. Sir, sir, I'm asking that, you also referred to the fact that the covered market in which you are present is growing at a faster rate, and within that, you are even beating the covered market growth. Then the growth expectation, which you have for the domestic business next year, should ideally be some sort of outperformance versus the covered market growth instead of the IPM growth. So, so, so am I missing something there?
Rahul, just to simplify things right out here, what Nikhil mentioned was total IPM growth, right, is going to be 10%. Now, at this stage, you know, we have not kind of clearly pinpointing what's the covered market growth. We have always maintained that we will be 200-300 basis points higher than the overall IPM growth. In our case, we pretty much drive the covered market growth because the molecules where we are present, we have the dominant position. So, you know, you have to think that way, that, you know, if the covered market is also growing higher, it's basically because we have dominant 50-60% market share in the categories which we play in, and that is what we are driving, right? We will also be, of course, more than the covered market growth. That's the way to look at it.
The only other clarification which we can give at this stage is 200-300 basis points higher. Actually, the reported growth will be, you know, will be also higher because you add to that the Ophthal portfolio.
Yeah, sure, sir. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. The next question is from Nitin Agarwal, from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my question, sir. On your comment regarding the gross margin, sort of, basing out around this current level of 68%, you know, when you look through the next 2-3 years, even what would be the drivers for incremental operating level, for incremental EBITDA margin improvement from here on? Or do we see EBITDA margins sort of stabilizing around the 25%-27% mark, you know, from here on?
So Nitin, as of now, the guidance that we are giving is 25%-27%. Overall, over a period of time, as our contribution from chronic therapy improves and CDMO improves, as and when that has a substantial effect, we will revise our guidance at that time.
Okay. And sir, on the export part of it, I mean, honestly, next 3-5-year period, do you see the exports growing faster than the domestic business for you?
Domestic, see, earlier, what we have been seeing within, if you look at our investor deck, the ambition is India, which is contributing today 53% to overall revenue, should contribute 60%, and CDMO, which is contributing 12%, should contribute 20%. So between India and CDMO, the contribution should be close to 80%. That is the guidance that we have kept for ourselves, and that is what we have been commenting for last now 3, 4 quarters.
Right. You know, I mean, just sort of pushing the point, if you take India growth as a 12%-13% base, and it's going to be growing faster than... You expect it to grow faster than the overall business for you?
Yes.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone.
We have a question on the chat. Basically, the question is on: How has the Sanzyme franchise been performing, and in particular, how has Sporlac been doing?
We have certainly delivered very strong performance on Sporlac over the last 4-5 quarters, and we maintain that we are going to continue you know looking at market-beating growth in the overall probiotic franchise. As Nikhil mentioned earlier also, some of our you know new launches under the same brand umbrella you know are also doing well. So we have some new strains which have been launched, specifically focusing towards pediatric. There'll be one more SKU launched towards pediatric division, and that will certainly help boost the overall franchise further.
Yeah, that's it from the chat box.
Thank you very much. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.
So let me thank all the participants for joining the conference today. I think nine months for the year. Overall, it has been a fair performance, what we have delivered, with close to 10% growth and around 20%+ EBITDA growth, and that will be the guidance for the current year. For the coming year, the business should grow at around 12%-14%. Top line, EBITDA, should grow at 16%-18%. Then hypothesis at JB remains that how do we invest to grow? The journey continues to be only upwards and onwards. That is what we can comment. With what we can do with our existing portfolio, making big brands bigger, making our new launches successful, and do justice to the acquired portfolio. Thank you all for patient hearing.
We will stay in touch with you. Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of JB Pharma, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.