Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call of Gufic Biosciences Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star plus zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah, Company Secretary, Gufic Biosciences Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thank you, Steve. Good evening, everyone. I am Ami Shah, Company Secretary, welcome you all to Gufic Biosciences Limited earnings conference call for the fourth quarter of FY 2024-2025. We have with us today Mr. Pranav Choksi, CEO and Director; Mr. Devkinandan Roonghta, CFO; and Mr. Avik Das from Investor Relations team to give the highlights of the business and financial performance of the company. Before we begin, I would like to say that some of the statements that will be made in today's discussion may include certain forward-looking statements which are projections or estimates about future events. These estimates reflect management's current expectations about future performance of the company. These estimates involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from what is expressed or implied.
Gufic does not undertake any obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statement, whether because of new information, future events, or otherwise. We will now begin the call with the opening remarks from Mr. Avik, followed by a financial overview from Mr. Roonghta. Thereafter, we will have our forum open for the interactive Q&A session. Over to you, Avik.
Good evening, and thank you for joining. I'll provide a concise update on the quarter, focusing on why we took certain actions and how they position us. I'll start with critical tech cluster. We shifted our sales teams to concentrate on hospitals with greatest prescribing potential. This right-sizing ensures that each call delivers maximum impact, strengthening relationships in ICU and emergency settings where timely antibiotic access is critical. We conducted over 125 engagements that reached almost 1,500 consultants on antimicrobial stewardship and sepsis control. By anchoring our message in real-world evidence and hosting a national KOL board advisory, we refined our product support programs so clinicians see our offerings as both reliable and cutting-edge. Our World Sepsis Day initiative engaged almost 3,000 SCBs to spotlight thymosin alpha's role, and we launched Eclin and IVIG in phases using market surveys to guide broader rollouts.
These steps reinforce our science-first image and open doors for formulary placements. Kavin now leads the sepsurgery and IV vacuum segment in 195 centers, and we hold top positions in antifungals such as the Caspor Fungins and Mycophungin range. These shared gains validate our focus and create a springboard for new critical care introductions in the coming year. I'll touch upon our Sparsh cluster, which is the direct-to-hospital segment. We tested our contrast media offerings with key hospitals to gather early feedback. This entry strategy allowed us to confirm product reliability before scaling. This will be an essential product line given the shortages in this product segment from time to time. By initiating internal trials and independent comparative studies for contrast media, we are gathering data that will convince procurement teams to switch from incumbents. This evidence-led approach addresses clinician concerns head-on and accelerates future adoption.
Looking ahead, the full launch of our in-house contrast media range will further boost Sparsh profile and drive incremental volume. I'll come to our facility cluster now. Dr. Radhi Vaggaswal joined us to leverage his decade-long IVF experience. His mandate is to sharpen our scientific positioning, particularly for gonadotropins. Having a recognized leader elevates our credibility in a highly relationship-driven specialty that the IVF segment is. We deepened collaboration with reproductive medicine communities to highlight Guficin Alpha's novel approach for recurrent implantation failure. Simultaneously, multi-centric trials for Guficin Alpha and Superdraft, which is India's furthest HMG, are underway. This data will solidify our claim against established fears and drive formulary access. As we complete these trials, our plan is to broaden IVF practitioner engagement using robust clinical evidence to convert the initial interest into prescriptions. This puts us in a strong position to capture share in rapidly expanding fertility markets.
Now coming to Astroderm, Mr. Vijay Kumar with extensive Galderma pedigree now leads Astroderm. Our flagship, Sonox, which is India's first domestically produced botulinum toxin type A, has treated 50,000 patients since launch, demonstrating strong practitioner and patient trust. In the quarter that went by, we held almost 112 training sessions and upskilled 608 doctors, ensuring consistent application and optimal outcomes. We also launched local clinical studies to generate Indian patient data, crucial for building conviction in a market where real-world evidence drives adoption. This dual focus on training and evidence means practitioners feel confident prescribing Sonox, which will accelerate adoption. As we scale, we expect to expand share in a fragmented aesthetic market that values quality, affordability, and outcomes. Now coming to neuro care, we are 100% dedicated to expanding botulinum toxin use in neurology, covering chronic migraine, spasticity, dystonia, and new areas like neurosurgery and pain.
This singular focus of this division simplifies messaging and maximizes specialist engagements. Our dedicated team now covers new major regions such as Lucknow, Chennai, Cochin, Pune, and has expanded their outreach in states of Gujarat, Punjab, Jharkhand, and Uttarakhand. This broader presence underpins our 17% market share, which is up by 10 percentage points on a year-on-year basis. Through hands-on training, PG programs, and speaker sessions at key scientific meetups, we ensure that neurologists, neurosurgeons, and pain specialists understand both the clinical protocols and patient selection criteria. We intend to drive growth for neuro care through upgradation of knowledge as well as skill of the existing practitioners. Now coming to the Genova division, we merged Spark and Cella to eliminate overlap, rationalize territories, and concentrate resources on our highest margin brands. This ensures that each sales call is more productive and each territory is fully optimized.
Rationalizing low-yield headquarters and reallocating manpower led to lower overheads without sacrificing coverage. We now have a very specialized field force focused on Fresh Milk, Dihydrophilic, Guanabase, and QF3, which are our top contributors in this combined division. In healthcare division, we concentrate on high-incidence, under-served categories like cervical spondylosis, osteoarthritis, and gout, while extending into wound healing through our brand WH5 Gel and GI Health through our molecule launch of Movona Prazon. This alignment directs resources towards segments with clear demand and differentiated needs. We ran almost 475 targeted screening camps, identifying 3,200 at-risk patients. By converting these referrals into UPSPON and BarrelDx prescriptions, we accelerate patient uptake and reinforce our therapy protocols at the ground level. We also patented WH5 Gel, making our first movers in Ayurvedic wound healing, and our next-gen anti-arthritic oil is all set for a pilot launch in the coming quarter.
Now I'll move to our international marketing division. Appointing Dr. Raj Shakhar as President of international business brings his two decades of MNC expertise to accelerate a push into regulated and emerging markets. We signed a landmark distribution agreement that now covers almost 17 LATAM countries. This will enable us to rapidly launch our products in those markets. We secured seven product approvals in Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and Cambodia. The Thai FDA GMP extension for Unit 2 underscores our manufacturing quality, and we hope it will unlock new registration opportunities in the future. Winning the Sri Lankan tender for two complex injectable products demonstrates our competitive pricing and reliability. We are also setting up rep offices in Vietnam and evaluating a presence in the Philippines that will lay the groundwork for deeper local engagement in the future.
To conclude, across every division, our guiding principle has been targeted execution backed by evidence. We've realigned sales forces, strengthened our KOL partnerships, built scientific credibility through trials, and expanded in key geographies, both domestic and international. These moves are designed to convert our near-term investments into durable market leadership and better realizations in the coming quarters. I'd like to update you all on the Indoor facility and its near-term impact on our profitability. As we have communicated in our earlier calls, in order to ensure full compliance with evolving export market requirements, we extended certain media-fill and aseptic process validations. This broadened our validation scope to include additional worst-case simulations, more extensive documentation, and deeper site qualification steps. While it pushed our commercial start by a few months, it definitely de-risked future audits and customer approvals. The plan was capitalized in Q3 2025.
In this quarter, we are absorbing higher fixed costs of salaries, utilities, depreciation, and interest. As a result, Indoor adds roughly INR 80 million of incremental depreciation and interest in Q4. We expect EBITDA break-even from Indoor in FY 2026, when incremental interest and depreciation will total around INR 360 million for the full year. To accelerate ramp-up, we've made some initiatives. We've booked 16 major customer audits for our CMO business. We've notified five global regulatory inspections, with mock inspections already underway. We've initiated technology transfers for 33 SKUs from Navsari and 18 site transfers from other CMO partners. We are also in advanced stages of completing our development of 15 new products at our Indoor R&D center. Our immediate focus is on completing all domestic customer audits and initiating stability batches for each product, while simultaneously finalizing dossier filings for international markets to trigger global audits.
We have headroom to accept additional domestic orders today, where excessive production could increase wear and tear during this critical regulatory audit phase. Thus, we'll ramp up to approximately 30% capacity, achieving EBITDA break-even this year, while prioritizing asset integrity ahead of global inspection. This measured approach ensures Indoor transitions into a bottom-line accredited facility by fiscal year 2027, backed by both domestic and international approvals. With that, I'll hand over the call to Mr. Roonghta, our CFO, for update on the financials.
Thank you, Avik. I will going to highlight the financial result of Q4 of 2025 versus Q4 of 2024 and full financial result of 2024 versus the financial year of 2023-2024. Total revenue for the Q4 of 2025 is INR 205 crore, compared to Q4 of 2024 was INR 195 crore. EBITDA for the current Q4 is INR 27 crore, compared to INR 5.1 crore.
There is a downfall because of the basically Indoor absorbing of fixed cost of interest, depreciation, and salary basis. The EBITDA margin for current Q4 is 13.16%, 17%, compared to Q4 of 18%. The profit before tax for the Q4 is INR 7.8 crore, compared to INR 27.1 crore of Q4 of last year. The PAT margin has been 5.27% for Q4 of 2024-2025 versus Q4 of 2023-2024 was 13.9%. The profit after tax for Q4 is INR 8 crore, compared to Q4 of last year, 20%. The PAT margin for Q4 is 3.90%, compared to Q4 of 2024, 10.26%. Now I highlight the financial result of whole year 2024-2025 versus 2023-2024. Total revenue from the operation is INR 819.8 crore, compared to INR 806.7 crore. EBITDA for the whole year is INR 138.6 crore, compared to last year, INR 148 crore. EBITDA margin for current financial year 2024-2025 is 16.91%, compared to 18.35% last year.
The profit before tax for current financial year 2024-2025 is INR 94.4 crore, compared to last year, 115.7%. The PAT margin for current financial year is 11.52%, compared to 14.34% last year. The profit after tax for current year is INR 69.9 crore, compared to last year, INR 86.2 crore. Profit after tax percentage for current financial year is 8.53%, compared to last year, 10.69%. This major drop in the Q4 result as well as the financial result 2024-2025 versus 2023-2024 is mainly because of the annual capacity capitalization, where we have absorbed additional costs towards fixed costs towards salary basis, other manufacturing expenses, as well as interest and depreciation. Thank you.
Steve, we can connect for Q&A sessions now.
Yes, ma'am. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone.
If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants who wish to ask a question to the management may press star and one at this time. The first question is from the line of Vishal Mehta from Oakland Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hello.
Yes, sir, you're audible. Please go ahead.
Just had two questions. One is, could you talk about the scale of the botulinum toxin as of late, as in what are the revenues and what are the profit numbers for FY 2024 and 2025? We spent a lot of time trying to set up the market itself. How do you see this scale up over the next two to three years? Yeah.
If I have time for you. Just to understand your question, Vishal Mehta, what is the total market size and how much have you penetrated, and what do you see the market size expanding in the next two to three years? Is that the question?
Actually, I was asking more of Gufic's scale. I mean, if you could help us with the market size also, it would be beneficial. What is the scale in terms of manufacturing or penetration? Revenue and profit. Revenue and profit today. Where do you see that in the next couple of years? I'll just start with the market also. The market, that will help you to understand our scale and what is our penetration and knowledge available. The market is divided into two parts. One is the aesthetic, and the next is the neurological.
Even though globally it is a much higher market, India for a population of our size, the market is still around close to 70,000-75,000 vials per year for aesthetics, and around 55,000-60,000 vials for neurology. We have already reached 9% market share in terms of aesthetics, and in neurology or therapeutic indication, we have reached approximately 15%-16% market share. That normally contributes to approximately, I would say, a little bit less than around 3% of our revenue today. 3%-4% of our revenue of Gufic is here. The gross margins on the product, of course, are much higher in terms of 80%-85%. The amount which we spend on clinical trials, on marketing spends, and others, which are still close to around 40%-45% of our annual revenue, apart from salary and expense and distribution and other overhead.
That's how the thing is. We grow by almost 50%-55%. I mean, maybe if you see year- on- year, this year we must have grown at around 50%-55%. The year before was around 70%-72% because the scale is quite small. That is our overall presence in the market. Now with Vijay Bhai coming in from Galderma and along with Dr. Jyoti and other team members, we want to first reach 20%-22% market share this year in aesthetics. In neurology, we hope to come to at least 25%-26% market penetration. We feel the market itself is growing by only 22%, and that is where we need to put on a little bit more effort in terms of expansion. Two things are there.
In neurology or therapeutic conditions, the insurance still doesn't cover this botulinum toxin use in therapy. That is where we have been trying to talk to some insurance companies and others to take it forward. The aesthetic market will definitely evolve much faster because the headwinds of the doctors pushing the patients also and our awareness and other things we are also investing on in terms of creating more awareness via social media also and via whatever mediums where we are permitted as per law to create more awareness via doctors. However, for therapy, it might still take more time because there it might be more inclusive when the insurance starts taking care of it. Affordability can be also an aspect.
But I still feel we hope that we can reach an INR 1 billion figure in terms of revenue in the next three years max for toxin as a whole.
Great. That's very encouraging. Also, we've got some good growth in the international business. Where do you see that stabilizing in the next two, three years? I mean, what are the targets you set for that?
For toxin, you're saying, or overall you're saying?
No, no. Overall. Aesthetic?
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Because right now, for toxin, we are not focusing on the international market. It requires a separate manufacturing infrastructure, which we have not considered in the near term in the next three years at least. Coming to the other products, yes, definitely.
If you see the numbers also, even though you see a flat top line this year, because we had limited capacity in terms of lyophilized injectables and injection manufacturing Indoor starting a little bit late, international business is something which we feel should gradually move from that 16%-18% revenue share to close to 25% revenue share in the next two to three years. Also, I'm assuming as a company, when I mean 16%-18% of INR 8 billion, we hope that in the next two years, when we go for the growth of at least 15%-20% year- over- year of total revenue, 25% of the revenue should be international business itself aided by Navsari and Indoor.
So I foresee that at least the international, I mean, the export business would be at least close to 1.5x to 2x in the next three to five years.
Thank you so much. I'll just get back in the queue. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sreekanth Bharat from Prudent Investment. Please go ahead.
My book. Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, I just want to understand what was the, I joined late, so what was the reason for a shrinkage in the margin in this particular quarter, or this is a one-time effect, or this will be dependent on the other factors?
Yeah. I request Roonghta Sir to please reply to this, sir. You can talk to him about the quarter and overall going forward also, sir.
Please go ahead.
Basically, if you see the contribution, GC margin has been jumped by 2%, but because of the fixed cost of Indoor and also increasing in the fixed cost of the Navsari plants, the salary wages have been for existing Navsari plants, we were given annual increment. The salary wages have been raised. In case of Indoor plants, there was a capacity utilization was not there. And Indoor plants, we have incurred the salary wages cost, interest cost, as well as depreciation. If you see, gross margin has been increased, but because of the fixed cost, the profit has been come down. This pressure will be continued for the next two to three quarters, looking to the capacity utilization of the Indoor plant because fixed cost, cost of interest and depreciation, that is accounting to be around INR 360 million as a whole year.
Every quarter, we have to incur around INR 90 million. That is going to be a pressure on the margin, and it will continue the pressure on the margin for at least the next two quarters .
Okay. Are we seeing, I mean, particularly if we talk about the Indoor facility, are we seeing a kind of a breakeven in that by 2025-2026?
Yeah. 2025-2026. 2025-2026, already Avik has mentioned to you that we are expected to have an EBITDA positive. EBITDA will be positive, but because of the interest and depreciation, there will be losses at the net profit level from the Indoor plant.
Okay. That was all my side. I will get back to you in a few. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vithit Shah from Spark Capital.
Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Firstly, I just wanted some clarification on the revenue breakup that you've provided on slide six of your presentation. If you could give us numbers for the domestic, international, CMO, Bharta's business for FY 2025 along with Sciatica and infertility, would be great.
Yeah. If you broadly see, 52%-53% of our revenue comes from a domestic space this year. That is the domestic revenue. I'll further take you down division-wise in terms of percentage. Around close to 18%—sorry, close to, yeah, 16%-18% comes from international markets. The remaining around 25% comes from our CMO business. The remaining would be APIs. This is a broad breakup of percentage-wise revenues of overall Gufic as a strategic business unit, what we call.
Further, in the domestic space, which contributes to 52%, almost more than 50% revenue comes from critical care. Critical care, I'm also including Sparsh right now for discussion purposes because it's all having the life-saving injectable space. The next 30% odd would be in infertility or a dynec range, followed by a mass marketing range of healthcare, where the nutraceutical and the ayurvedic products would be there. Those would be another close to, I think, around 20%. The remaining, like I said, would be the neurological as well as the aesthetic, that is the botulinum toxin business as such.
Okay. Understood. From the domestic business, about 50% is critical care, 30% is infertility.
Yeah. Infertility would be around 25% to be precise. Another 16%-17% would be mass marketing, and remaining would be toxin.
Okay. Understood.
This quarter, we obviously saw an increase in fixed cost from the Indoor facility. In your presentation, you have said that at 30% utilization we should break even. Assuming this facility does about INR 750 crore-INR 800 crore of peak revenue, given the INR 300 crore spent, is that to assume that we can do INR 250 crore of revenue runway in FY 2026?
Not exactly. You have to understand now the peak per knower has been achieved from Navsari. Whatever major increase in revenue you will see this year will be from Indoor. The way we have done the product selection, we feel at least EBITDA breakeven should happen this year. What you rightly said in terms of even managing the interest and the depreciation, we should be breaking even next year. That is how we would say it.
When we say 30%, it is when we are committing on even the interest and the depreciation also to be taken care of on a monthly basis. That would happen next year only. This year, only the EBITDA we would be breakeven and a little bit positive.
Okay. Understood. In terms of revenue, we've seen fairly flat revenues over all the quarters this year, despite Indoor coming up in the third quarter. I understand there were some pricing pressures from 3Q onwards. If you could help explain what's causing, is it that volumes are also not growing because Navsari is chockablocked, or are we likely to see any revenue growth in FY 2026 besides the Indoor commission?
Yeah. Very frankly, if you see, Navsari is chockablocked. Only wave of growth has been tenants and toxin where we have capacity.
That is where the actual growth has happened. There has been a quantity increase also from Navsari in spite of Indoor being contributing in their own way for the last two quarters. If you see the 800 number of last year and 800 number of this year, there has been almost 25% of our revenue contributed by around 10-12 molecules, where the erosion of the pricing of those molecules is almost happening from 0-30 or 0-40 or 0-50. I would name them also: meropenem, then human chorionic gonadotropin, then even enoxaparin, and like that, there are around 10-12 molecules which contribute to that 25%. All of them have eroded in terms of the API pricing itself, where the benefits have to be passed on to the market also.
Even our Ceftazidime Avivactim, Kavin brand, even though being a market leader, has gone from a selling rate of almost INR 1,200 to an average rate of around INR 680-INR 700. This is also somewhere where even though the margin percentage is intact, the rupee value margins have got suffered in all these products because of the price erosion which has happened, which we feel should be the bottoming out. This actually bottoming out happened last September to December 2024. We fall after that, we have not seen any further drop of prices happening in the last three to four, I mean, four to five months. We hope that's the most bottom out.
Whatever numbers we predict now in this year with the volumes also going up and no further erosion of prices, we have seen the, I would say, the bottom fit last year, and we should see this revenue increase. You will see the benefit of Indoor coming in. Plus, of course, you will see the benefit of penem block volumes, even toxin volumes, and the natural progressive growth of a little bit of CMO moving to an upgraded export business of U.K. and Europe. With all that, you will see some help in revenue numbers this year. That is why we are confident that even though Indoor not being at 30% this year or even at 40% this year, we should still see an EBITDA breakeven at Indoor.
Okay. Understood.
Just the last one on the phase rollout of the Eclin and the IVIG launches, how big is the market opportunity for Gufic out there?
Eclin is basically an add-on to an existing brand, which was having a patent protection where Supla was the only one who got the patent from BNS. We feel that there will be more entrants also. Since we have taken the early mover advantage, we feel as a size for us, we are hoping that we can create at least an INR 20-INR 22 crore brand from this going forward for Eclin. For IVIG, very frankly, it is not only complementing us in terms of our high-endness, but especially in the neuro space, where we have botulinum toxin only. Right now, when my neuro care team goes and talks to experts about toxin, we are a single product division.
Their IVIG is also one product which we can actually space to get that TCPM high and get some cost taken care of. With the product basket expansion, keeping in mind to take care of overheads. That also, we feel with the numbers, should at least help us for that INR 10 crore mark going forward in that neuro care division. Okay. What's the TCPM that we're doing at Sparsh right now? Sparsh, we are doing anything around, I think, statewide, but it's around INR 900,000-INR 1,000,000 per month. Per month. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you so much. I'll get back in. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nayan Kapadia, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible? Hello.
Yes, sir, you're audible. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My question is actually it is answered. So I will not take any question.
I don't have any further questions.
Okay, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sheha Gandhi from Kothari Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is regarding the revenue potential from indoor facilities which are expecting FY 2026 at 30% utilization.
Yeah. So we hope to touch close to 20%-25% for sure. 30% is, of course, where the efforts are ongoing because we are running out of capacity. We don't have capacity since last year in Navsari. Again, using the same logic, assuming that the total potential of Indoor is at least same as Navsari. That is where we look at anything around INR 700 crore-INR 900 crore. Let's say on an average INR 800 crore mark is the capacity of revenue which can be extracted from Indoor.
We hope that anything around INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore, bare minimum, we need to extract from Indoor this year.
Okay. And the peak revenue which you are saying, close to INR 800 crore-INR 900 crore? Yeah. That will be, again, that product mix and all that. Yes, let's see the average price of a vial, what we achieve in Navsari. I'm just using that as a projection and keeping that INR 800 crore, around plus or minus INR 50 crore, as the revenue projected. This will be achieved in 2028 or 2027, the peak revenue? I think 2028 is a better bet because we have a lot of, I would say, registrations and processes. International market, what we are mostly trying to cater from Indoor would be the regulated market.
That is why we hope that 2028 should be a good time where we can see at least majority reaching to at least close to 70%-75%. Yeah. Or more. This is mainly because after the USFDA approval of FY 2028? Even U.S., EU, the product line also, plus we always have seen in certain markets, there are always like what we saw last year in terms of the pricing, API pricing, and intermediate pricing going up and down. I would not link everything. As a safety forward-looking statement, I would say that 2028, we can achieve 70%-75% of that revenue, even keeping in mind all these parameters, factors which might not be in our control. That is how we normally work. Of course, internal numbers are much more aggressive.
Just to talk to investors, we normally say that, yeah, 2028 would be at scale, 70%-75%. Yeah.
Got it. My second question is regarding debt repayment. Are we looking for debt repayment with the EBITDA breakeven for Indoor plant?
Yeah. I think already I will request Roonghta Sir to talk about because already repayment of debt has started from last year. To be more precise, I think Roonghta Sir is the best person to answer. Let's go ahead. Yeah.
Basically, we have taken a loan of INR 160 crore for Indoor plant. That is INR 100 crore we have taken from Saraswat Bank and INR 60 crore we have taken from L&T Finance. There is a two-year monitoring period. The loan has started repayment from 1st April 2024. Already 12 months, 12 and 16 months repayment has already been done.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shriikant Parakh from Prudent Investment. Please go ahead.
Just one question on the Indoor plant itself. Being fully utilized at FY 2027, 2026 and 2027, what would be the top line which we are expecting from it in a general sense, in a normal situation?
You just answered, the last gentleman asked the same question. Just to again tell you, but no problem. I don't mind answering once again for you so there's no ambiguity. We hope that by 2028, we can reach to 70%-75% of capacity utilization. Always there will be challenges of environment and other regulation and all that.
Like I said, we foresee the max revenue from, I will not say max, the most optimum max revenue should be around INR 800 crore, which we hope that in the next four to five years, we can achieve that because this requires a regulatory maturity also of the plant, the registrations of the products. Every country like the U.S., Europe, others take at least 18-24 months to take it. A country like South Africa takes almost 30 months sometimes. Keeping all these factors in mind, all that work has started from October 2024. We already have got WHO-GMP. We already got two, three countries like from Middle East who have approved us. Now we are hoping for Saudi audits this year. We are hoping for EU audit by the end of this year, U.S. audits next year, and then the filing of dossiers.
The maturation and the entire maturation time is almost two to three years, and then we can start getting commercial revenue. I still feel 2028, 2029 is where you should see the actual peak from there.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Giresh Shah from Gloucester LLP. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yes, sir, you're audible. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My question is again pertaining to Indoor facility only. I would like to know, okay, Navsari is already fully utilized. And in your presentation, you said that you are doing some validation for future. I would like to know, isn't it possible to devote some pipeline production to help out the growth and take out the expenses also? Or is it that the whole plant has to go for validation without revenue?
Can you explain this in a bit more detail?
Yeah. I think I'll just tell you where the confusion is. The revenue generation has already started from Indoor. It's not that it's working on a zero revenue model as of now. From October to December 2024 quarter, the production had started. December was the first month of some revenue, I mean, and then we saw in March some more revenue. Right now, as you rightly said, the first process was that we are doing tech transfers, which started from October onwards. Even before that, for that matter, validation and qualification were happening, where we took—we have four lines in Indoor: lyophilization, two lines of lyophilization, one line of ampoule, and one line of vial, where we started validation of multiple products.
Like Avik also mentioned in his chart and his mention on the presentation also, 33 product tech transfer had been initiated. Out of that, 18 have been successfully done, or 15, I believe, 15 or 18 have been successfully done. The revenue, it's not that we are running without revenue. Even this year, we will definitely see at least a minimum INR 100 crore to a maximum INR 150 crore revenue coming out of Indoor, which might be either some capacity which is not being done in Navsari will be pushed there, plus some new, I would say, organic business completely, completely something from Indoor for some of our clients. A mix of both. Yes, one thing for sure, most of the revenue this year will be domestic market-centric. International market revenue would start coming by the end of this financial year and majority of next financial year.
So that is how we would look at that.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yohan Keswani from Mithil Analytics. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So Pranavji, I have one question on your fertility segment. Last phone call, you had mentioned about two of our products, Guficin Alpha and SupraGraph. And we had mentioned about the clinical trials that we are doing in one of these products, and we had enlisted several patients. Could you just help us, give us more updates on the progress of these two products? Hello? Am I audible, sir?
Yes, sir, you're audible.
Should I repeat my question?
Yes, sir, please.
I just got disconnected. My mistake. I got your question. Your question, if I'm not mistaken, was SupraGraph and was it Guficin Alpha?
Yes. Yes, sir.
Yeah.
The Eupotrophin Alpha is basically a recombinant FSH, which we will be initiating the clinical trials for DCGI or the CDSCO first. We hope to get approvals next year. It normally takes two years to get the approval. That process is already on. Those clinical trials will be done purely for registration and against the innovator for getting in India. There will be no commercial revenue seen for that product till end of next year. However, for SupraGraph, of course, the trials have been initiated, plus not only at one center, we have done two different sets of trials. We are very happy that one of the big centers of India also has agreed to take the product on trial against their standard of care, which is again an imported innovative product.
We hope that these trials will happen side by side, and we should have some results by the end of this year for SupraGraph. In spite of the trials happening, a lot of doctors are using the product already because it is already being currently sold in the market. We are seeing good response, and we see that division also of 40 max. It is a part of the infertility segment, but it is a separate division which has 33 people. They are almost growing by around 10-15% month over month. This is also doing quite well. At least in the last three or four months, we saw that delta. We hope that at least there will be a good enough jump of SupraGraph this year itself in the revenue.
Okay.
Sir, in terms of any commercial numbers that you can share with us on the potential of Eupotin Alpha, which might come in one or two years down the line, and similarly, what would be the contribution for SupraGraph?
Now this third question, Eupotin Alpha is a third product, which is an immunomodulator for recurrent implantation failure, for which, and also for endometriosis, where we have ongoing trial with DCGI. That third product, we hope that the market itself has to be created because right now there are other standards of care of recurrent implantation failure. We also are going to the government and asking them for approved indications so we can, because we need to do some trials before that. That is the third trial which we are doing for that third different product.
We still feel that it's a concept which is being established. However, at least if we can reach close to INR 80 million-INR 90 million mark in this year, it would be great for Eupotin Alpha as such. That is also with the same 33 people team. This 33 people team of 40 max sells Eupotin Alpha and SupraGraph. There we see Eupotin should contribute to come to INR 80 million-INR 90 million bare minimum this year.
Okay. Sir, sorry, I was a little confused. When I asked the question, I was asking for Eupotin Alpha and SupraGraph only, but I think
that's what I thought. I think Eupotropin is our future product. That's why even I was confusing. No problem. Anyway, you got your answer for all three of them. Anything else you'd like to know?
Yes, sir.
One question on the contrast media side. We've mentioned that we have made a soft launch. If you could just talk a bit about this soft launch, how is the progress, and what is our expectation from this? This product, have we launched from the Indoor facility or from Navsari?
Yeah, exactly. Right now, the first few batches, of course, were small batch sizes. We took it from Navsari last year. When I mean last year, I mean in November, December 2024. We had got these samples made to be given to certain high-end, I would say, imaging centers around India for getting the feedback, because most of them use GE's product, which is an imported product. They always had issues with some other products available in the Indian market.
That's why a lot of people have been asking us for a product which has a quality compared to GE. We are quite happy with the results we got. We did the final batch of trials in April 2025. The last report, I think, was received by 16th May 2025. Now we'll officially be launching this product in the month of June 2025. They will be made in Navsari till this last batch. From July onwards, they'll be shifted to Indoor. Indoor already has our other batches being tech plans, and every technology transfer takes time. Indoor will normally start when the batch size goes to minimum 15,000-20,000 per batch. Right now, for 5,000-5,000 batches, we are sticking it in Navsari only. In Navsari, at least for liquid filling, we don't have capacity constraints.
Lyophilization is where our major capacity constraints are there.
Okay. Sir, in terms of revenue potential and margin of this, if you could talk a bit?
Margin would be like a critical care thing. Gross margins would be around anything around 50%-55%, not more. Because they are iodine-based products where the iodine pricing are very, I would say, erratic depending on the supply which comes from South America. However, in terms of volume, it has a good market space, even though it's not captured in IQ yet. Based on the import data and what we could see, we hope that as a contrast media basket should at least become a 5%-6% contributor in our entire critical care segment thing around the land in the next two to three years. That is what it is.
So anything around INR 15-INR 20 crore is something we minimum feel for the iodine products. Also in the future, we'll be launching some Gado-based products also and the basket will expand. So there'll be more revenue uptrends seen after we launch those products also.
Got it, sir. That's it from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shivani Giri from Centrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, sir. Am I audible? Hello?
Yes, you are.
Yeah. I mean, in your facility, first of all, thanks for taking my question. I mean, your Indoor facility is, I think, 2x the size of your existing Navsari facility. And I think you mentioned the peak revenues would be similar to what you're doing right now where Navsari is at peak.
I mean, if you can extend that, because I thought that revenue potential would be much higher from there, I mean, for the Indoor facility.
Actually, it is 1.3x-1.5 x Navsari. That is totally with Navsari and this being added. Of course, I'm not counting the Penems and the toxins and the hormones. If you see, Navsari also has Penems, toxins, and hormones also contributing, which is not part of that. If I minus the Penems, toxins, and hormones out of Navsari, there's an X revenue. Out of that X revenue, we are looking at 1.5 x that X revenue of Navsari, which we say is around INR 800-900 crore.
If you see the total revenue, what you see right now of Gufic also includes the Belgam facility where there is nutraceuticals, the PENEM line, the hormone line of HCG, HMG, FSH, and also the, what do you call, the toxin, whatever, even though it's a very small amount, maybe 5%-7% of the revenue. All this is part of Navsari. When we just remove all that and we do, then it will be one and a half time, which comes roughly around INR 800-INR 900 crore.
Okay. Understood. The Belgam facility, is it fully utilized? Is that also fully utilized or is it?
Yeah, that's fully for self-consumption for our Salaki Newcatoy range of products. Still, it is working on one shift as of now. If required, we can go to two to three shifts.
That is mostly for in-house consumption only for tablet, capsule, neutrophil, and ayurvedic products.
Okay. Across your divisions, I mean, domestic, international, and CMO, can you give us a rank of the margins? Like which one is higher margin and lower margin?
Yeah, it will be international first, second would be domestic, and third would be CMO.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah for closing comments.
Thank you very much. I appreciate all of you joining us today.
If any of your questions remains unanswered, you can get back to our investor relations team, and we'll be happy to assist you. With that, we conclude today's call. Take care. Thank you.
On behalf of Gufic Biosciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.