Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Gufic Biosciences Limited Investor Call for Q1 2025-2026. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thank you so much. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Ms. Ami Shah, Company Secretary. Welcome you all to Gufic Biosciences Limited's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter of FY 2025-2026. We have with us today for the call Mr. Pranav Choksi, CEO and Director, Mr. Devkinandan Roonghta, CFO, and Mr. Avik Das from the Investor Relations Team, to give the highlights of the business and financial performance of the company. Before we begin, I would like to say that some of the statements will be forward-looking, and today's discussion may include projections or estimates about future events. These estimates reflect management's current expectations about the future performance of the company, and these estimates involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from what is expressed or implied.
Gufic does not take any obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether because of new information, future events, or otherwise. I hope you all have received the investor presentation that we have posted on the Stock Exchange website and on the company's website. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Avik for sharing the business highlights. Thank you.
Thank you, Ami, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for joining our call. I've already started with a quick overview of all our business units and divisions, and even before that, I'll bring you all to see our developments at Indore. Over the past year, a significant portion of our efforts has been invested in bringing the Indore facility from build to this year's benchmark facility today. This facility is one of our most advanced in terms of lyophilized injectable capability. It's been designed to meet WHO, GMP, EU, ANVISA and MHRA, as well as the US FDA standards. Since October 2024, our focus has been on our delivery stepwise qualification process, starting with equipment qualifications and, subsequently, even our utilities qualification, performance qualifications with multiple container formats. We've done a full aseptic process simulation across all four lines.
These stages were critical to ensure sterility validation and long-term compliance readiness. On the product side, we have secured almost 145 state FDA approvals to date with additional products in the pipeline. On the tech transfer from Navsari side, which is well underway, we've already completed nine lyophilized injectable products, three liquid products, and three antimicrobial products. Another eight are in the process as we speak. This shift is also freeing up capacity at unit two for exports, while the Indore site takes over our domestic CMO work and begins to build its own commercial momentum. In terms of vendor audits from leading Indian pharma majors, we've completed 15. We have some more lined up in this quarter. This, of course, will be an ongoing process. We've also explained in a timeline of how we see the Indore plant shaping up in the coming quarters and years.
One of the key milestones will be the global regulatory audit, which we hope to receive from the EU sides and EU and UK MHRA sides by Q1 of FY 2027. US FDA, of course, will be triggered by client timelines as Gufic is a proud CDMO partner for the US foray. Looking ahead, our roadmap is very clear. We reached 30% capacity utilization in FY 2026, which is the current year. A breakeven on EBITDA for Indore in the same position. Indore has a margin equator asset from FY 2027 onwards. The focus will remain on discipline scale-up, ensuring every stage of qualification, tech transfer, and audit readiness is completed to global standards before accelerating volumes. Now I'll take you all through the key updates in our divisions, our corporate Critical Care division.
In Critical Care, our direction remains focused on deepening our position as a trusted hospital partner through scientific engagement and therapy leadership. This quarter, we've used various national scientific platforms, not just for presence, but to shape clinical discussions, especially in invasive fungal diseases, antimicrobial resistance, and sepsis management. The intent has been to strengthen our reputation in the high science, high dependence segment. On the portfolio side, we've begun refreshing the anti-infective baskets with differentiated combination launched immediately post patent expiry of the innovator. This particular product is targeting resistant pathogens, while also promoting rational antibiotic use. The emphasis is on strategic lead-based introductions of new products that add value to clinicians rather than volume-driven launches. On Sparsh, Sparsh is undergoing a strategic shift under the new leadership to drive deeper penetration in hospital accounts and widen the breadth of high science offerings.
While near-term growth will come from proven products like dual chamber bags, the medium-term strategy is anchored around entering new hospital categories, such as contrast media, and coming up with next-generation Critical Care injectables like albumin. We are going through the development and regulatory approval process for these, and testing for these products. The division is also investing in building a stronger corporate positioning with larger corporate groups by bringing certain changes in our distribution methodology. This will shorten sales cycles and improve customer retention. On the entire Ferticare Cluster , under strengthened leadership and with an upgraded portfolio, Ferticare is now focusing on proper scientific positioning, improving seed productivity, and very selectively introducing differentiated therapies in reproductive medicine. A key highlight this quarter was the launch and scale-up of our immune therapy for recurrent implantation failure.
This is the first such therapy in India addressing a highly specific and challenging patient segment in IVF. On our core brands, they are progressing well. Puregraf, which is our classic gonadotropin offering, is on track towards an INR 25 crores annual run rate. Cetrocare is moving into the top three in its category. Supergraf, which is positioned directly against an innovator product, is targeting INR 150 crores within two years of its launch. Guficin Alpha is on course for INR 10 crores annually. Our legacy brands like Dydrofic and Lomocare continue to post steady growth. Over the coming quarters, our focus will remain on deepening our relationships with IVF specialists, scaling first-to-market therapy offerings, and expanding the portfolio to capture a greater share of clinicians' spend. Now I'll come on our toxin segment. I'll start with Aesthaderm .
We are building on our strong base in the therapeutic and aesthetic botulinum toxin by broadening into a more complete aesthetic portfolio, including fillers, skin boosters, and biostimulators, which was a key gap in our product portfolio in that segment. This approach expands our clinician reach, engaging practitioners who may not currently use toxins and creating a progressive pathway towards adoption of toxins. The result is a larger, more diverse customer base and long-term product category growth potential. We made efforts to accomplish this in the first quarter. We've advanced in licensing discussions for one of the world's top fillers and biostimulator brands to accelerate market entry and enhance our portfolio in India. Stunnox continues its sustained growth momentum. We're already number two in India, only second to the innovator of the product.
We are also strengthening our footprint in Tier 1 and Tier 2 aesthetic markets for a very targeted clinician network expansion. On the neurocare division, neurocare continues to focus on expanding the therapeutic botulinum toxin usage beyond the core urology into neurosurgery, urology, ophthalmology, and pain management. The emphasis is on category building, driving adoption through still scaling presence in various scientific initiatives and targeted specialty outreach. The aim is to gradually increase the user base familiar with therapeutic toxin application, leading to, we hope, a very sustained prescription retention. Now coming to our mass market specialties, I'll start with the healthcare division. In healthcare, our strategy blends the leadership in established segments with differentiated innovations. Sallaki and its extensions remain the leader in joint care, positioned as a pure pathway rather than just symptomatic relief. We all continue to grow in the antidiarrheal category.
The Ayurveda++ approach, which is combining traditional formulations with modern evidence, underpins launches like Gufican Oil, Gufispon in very niche markets. In [Shendan's], we also have a good wound healing product in this portfolio. Here we've added vonoprazan as well, and we are seeing good early traction with this molecule as well. We hope with this entire portfolio, the target market is pretty big and pretty niche, and we hope to gradually make inroads into that. Coming to Zenova, Zenova's focus is on strengthening engagement at the point of care in gynecology and expanding a high science women's health portfolio. The patient support programs are also designed to build trust in the prescriber-patient interface, which is the clinics. Upcoming differentiated launches in pain management and fertility-related antioxidants will broaden our relevance in reproductive health.
The intent is to sustain the kind of growth that we've seen, while gradually rebalancing the portfolio mix towards higher margin segments, which is visible in our Rx-to-injections ratio now moving favorably towards Rx in this division. Lastly, I'll update on the international business. In our slides, we have presented the current market size of select molecules in which we have complete dose readiness. These are products, of course, developed and already approved and being sold to some of these markets from Navsari Unit 2. Indore will add its own set of products to this as well in time to come. We are targeting a three to five-year horizon to capture 5%- 10% market share across these high-potential molecules in the identified market, as shown in the presentation. The total addressable market is about $824 million.
Current manufacturing for these molecules is undertaken at our EU GMP-approved Unit 2 at Navsari, with subsequent options to manufacture these at Indore facility as well. The Indore plant will not only de-boxyloid capacity at Unit 2 Navsari, but also expand this basket with additional products, which will add to the addressable market in the future. Export momentum is already visible, supported by opening up of Unit 2 capacity at Navsari through tech transfer to Indore, and gradual relocation of domestic CMO business to Indore. Early wins reinforce our execution capability of this strategy. Something that I'll highlight here is the U.K. NHS tender award, which has already been serviced from Unit 2 Navsari in the current financial year. With that, I wrap up the business updates for Q1 and now hand over the call to Mr. Roonghta for update on the financials.
Thank you, Avik.
I am going to highlight the financial performance for Q1 of 2025-2026 versus Q4 of 2024-2025. I'm not able to compare the Q1 of 2024-2025 versus Q1 of 2025-2026 because of the, sorry, Q4 of 2024-2025. I'm making a comparison of financial results of Q1 of 2025-2026 versus Q4 of 2024-2025. The total revenue from the operation from Q4 of 2024-2025 was INR 205 crore. Q1 of 2025-2026 is INR 226.96 crore. It is basically because of the startup of the Indore facility. The EBITDA in Q4 of 2024-2025 was INR 27 crore. In Q1 of 2025-2026 was INR 33.2 crore. The EBITDA margin in Q4 of 2024-2025 was 30.13%. It has improved in Q1 2025-2026 to 14.63%. The profit before tax Q4 of 2024-2025 was INR 10.8 crore. Q1 of 2025-2026 was INR 16.3 crore. The price margin in Q4 2024-2025 was 5.21%. In Q1 for 2025-2026 is 7.8%.
The profit before tax, the Q4 of 2024-2025 was INR 8 crore, whereas the Q1 of 2025-2026 was INR 12.1 crore. The price margin in Q4 of 2024-2025 was 3.9%, whereas Q1 2025-2026 is 5.33%. Thank you.
Staff, if we can now begin with the Q&A session.
Agreed. Thank you. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and then two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register for a question, you may press star and then one. Our first question comes from the line of Bhavya Sonawala from Samaasa Capitals. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. Is it possible to give kind of a number on what kind of revenues have come in this quarter from the Indore plant?
Yeah. If you see, again, last time also in the last call, I think Navsari was more or less saturated in the entire year last year in terms of unblocking any revenue there. Whatever increase you see around close to INR 25 crore- INR 26 crore is mostly at the benefit of Indore.
Okay. Where I was coming from is just wanted to understand, has there been any, you know, you've been spoken about Critical Care having some products having price erosion. Has that continued or have we seen some kind of, what timelines have we seen for the whole thing to be completed, and when can we see some revenue starting from those transfers? I think the plan is for Navsari to start exports because we are already up existing products. If you can just throw some light on that.
Yeah. Basically, the tech transfer will be an ongoing thing. As Avik had mentioned, there are more than 15 markets here. Some of them have been completed, some are ongoing, and there will be more and more tech transfers happening of products where we know for a fact the competitive constraints are there. More importantly, the products which we are seeking for tech transfer as of now are two things. One, which we know for a fact will have a global emphasis on a higher batch size. When we export abroad, there is a QP release cost. When the batch size is around 40,000 per batch in Navsari, you are in Indore, you're getting 100,000 batch size.
Those are the candidates which we have taken for our tech transfer in phase I , followed by those products which are relevant in the domestic market in terms of CMO as well as a Critical Care and a critical space. Those products are also being considered for tech transfer. Down the line, once the products are done, there are also tech transfers which will be done by both the R&Ds of Indore and Navsari also directly to Indore because of less products like daptomycin and, you know, propofols and the depo injections. Those also will be continued. The process of tech transfer will be ongoing, but there will be new and new molecules coming in. Answering your second question and answering your fourth question in terms of when do we unblock the exports, we already have lined up.
We already have done the application of our EU GMP as two different, I would say, geographies. We are hoping at the slot either by the end of the year or early next year. Once the EU gets approved, hopefully by Q1 2027, as we have mentioned in the presentation, we'll be immediately starting the exports from that. Apart from EU, of course, other markets like, you know, Southeast Asia or, you know, even for that matter, Africa countries' ongoing audits start in the next three to six months. I'm hoping strictly by December or by early next year, we should see exports also being initiated from Indore.
Got it. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Kumar Saurabh from Scientific Investing. Please go ahead.
Yes, hello. Hope I'm audible.
Yes, sir, please go ahead.
Hello? Audible?
Yeah.
Okay. Sir, this year as well, 2026, we have planned for 20% capacity utilization. Correct me, our assumption is in the next four years, this whole plant and INR 800 crore of additional revenue would be possible in four years. That is one. The other question is, when do you see operating leverage playing out in favor? Because right now we don't have expenses at employment level and other expenses level. It is also visible in the current quarter as well. What is the capacity utilization level at which you can expect the margins to reverse or apogee?
Yeah. I'll comment about the capacity utilization, and then I'll request Roonghta to comment upon the margins. I think he already has mentioned about being EBITDA per capita by the end of the year, but I'll ask him to elaborate on that further. In terms of capacity utilization, we already are around 18%- 20% in Q1. We foresee that, and I'm talking, of course, about the level of utilization capacity. Liquid and antimicrobial, we hope that by spring, by around October or November, we should be close to 20%- 25%. By the end of the year or maybe by November and the third quarter of this financial year, we should be around 30% and maybe beyond also. That is where we foresee that the capacity consumption will happen. Based on that, we have a prediction that we should be taking even in EBITDA this year.
Roonghta, you want to add anything on this, sir?
Yeah, I'm just adding, sir.
Yes.
Up to now, I has already mentioned that capacity utilization is to 18%- 20%, but there are factors of capacity which has been utilization for validation of the price. Capacity utilization is depending upon how much we sell to the market. It also includes the validation. Once the capacity utilization reaches around 25% only for sales, at that moment of time, we are expecting the EBITDA will be very very low. If we reach the capacity utilization around 35%, at that moment of time, we will be able to recover the interest and deficiency cost.
Got it, sir.
Four years, is it a fair estimate? I mean, given that you are uncertain, four years, is it a reasonable estimate?
It's too early to comment on this because we are in the process of how much time validation batch is going to take, how much time the U.S. FDA is going to take the permission. It's too early to comment. I'm not in a position to say that after four years, we will be able to reach INR 800 crore per month.
Okay. The second question is on the cash flows. Ultimately, the cash flow to cash flow conversion has not been great. I'm sorry, I'm new to the company. I'm still studying. One of the reasons has been the first project. My understanding was because it helps us with direct connected to hospitals, it should help us even to better the operating cash flow. If you can explain a little bit on why EBITDA to cash flow in the last years has not been like how we used to do in history? Is first project having any impact on that? What is the future plan on that to improve EBITDA to cash flow conversion?
I think, Roonghta, I'll answer just about the Sparsh program, and then you can definitely comment on the cash flow and EBITDA.
Call will be recorded.
Hello, yeah, sorry.
This call is no longer being recorded.
Can I continue, or is there some issue?
You are audible, sir.
Yeah, okay. Sparsh, I think, like we clearly mentioned, was a clear-cut division launch to increase the margins which we have. If you see overall, the margins which were there of the 6,000 years ago were close to around 48%- 50%. Now, at least we have been able to increase it to around 54%- 55% year-over-year in spite of the erosion of pricing happening. Sparsh was done that we, of course, try to go to the there are two purposes. It's not only for margin improvement, but also that we have a control of our predictive business in terms of the primary, secondary, as well as tertiary hospitals. We know actually what is the buying patterns, what molecules work in what geography, and what hospitals are interested in what products, specifically keeping in mind that particular area and geography as well as economic background.
That is where the thing was, and we expected more of margin improvement. As you know, whenever we try to go or go for the direct approach, the hospitals in India, unfortunately, have a habit of paying almost after 120, 150, or sometimes even 180 days. That is something which we were recalculating. There might be an approach change down the line, maybe in the next three to six months. That's why there has been a leadership change also in Sparsh that even though numbers and still were happening, the cash flow was a little bit, of course, stressed, especially keeping the textures in mind and also the inventories also.
We would be maybe going back in the next three to six months back to the CNS model where we again get the, what do you call, the distributors in place where at least our collection and our, I would say, outstanding, which is currently around 120-1 50 days in that division, comes back to that 45-day average. It will take time, but it's worth exploring. That will be my comment on Sparsh. I think, Roonghta, you can comment about the EBITDA and the cash flow.
Basically, if you see the cash flow has been basically our inventory has almost maintained around INR 215 crore. There has been increasing in the data because of the after COVID, the general generally previously before COVID, we are getting the payment average in 90 days.
After COVID, the payment cycle has been increased by almost all the people from 90 days to 120 days. That is one of the major change in the payment cycle time. Second thing, because of the increasing in the sale of Indore plants, we expect there will be an additional requirement of the working capital. The working capital requirement will be under pressure from this current event because of the Indore picking up.
Got it, sir. Okay. That's it from my side. Sir, I really have gone through the previous conference. I really like the disclosures and the transparency with which you know you update the perspective of something good, bad, positive, negative. Really looking forward to our next quarter. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press star and then one to ask a question. Our next question comes from the line of Nitya Shah from KamayaKya Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible? Hello?
Yes, sir. You're audible. Please go ahead.
Yes. My question was, now I've been a shareholder for quite a few years. I've seen that the revenues have largely ranged between, say, the INR 190 crore- INR 200 crore range. Now we've shown a 10% growth. Looking at the various segments, there's a lot of innovation and interesting, exciting segments in the company. Why has the top line not been reflecting all these changes? Is it that you surveyed around 8,000 hospitals? There's lots of interesting feedback, as was seen in the presentation. Why is it not flowing into the revenue numbers? When are we first seeing strong growth of, say, 20% year on year? Now we've reached 10%. Could you throw some light on, other than the Indore products, all your other therapies, what's exactly happening there? When can we see material change in the numbers due to that?
Yeah, Nitya sir, as you know, 50% of our revenue comes from the domestic market and then from CMO and then from exports. These are the major three parts. Further, if I go below after 50%, almost 50% comes from Critical Care, which comprises of Critical Care, Sparsh, and overall setup , and then 30% from infertility, and the remaining would be from mass marketing. If you see the numbers which have evolved from, I think, INR 690 crores, INR 800 crores, INR 800 crores, and then whatever comes this year, especially last that INR 690 crores to INR 800 crores was one jump, and then INR 800 crores became flagged at INR 800 crores because of two reasons, as I mentioned last time. One was, of course, the erosion of prices, which was to the tune of INR 120 crores to. More importantly, the capacity was the biggest concern which we faced.
Because almost the Indore project was delayed by six to eight months, almost nine months, we had, because of the introduction of the new validation, the revenues almost got pushed ahead. At the same time, there was a heavy order book which just got bloated in the meanwhile. Unfortunately, in pharma, as you are aware, we cannot just start a plant and start manufacturing immediately. There is a process of three batches, tech transfer, analytical method transfer, the validation, then stabilities. Once the stability is okay, then you know your QA allows to take the batches ongoing. This process, which was actually started by October 2024, is showing some light. That's why you have seen a 10% sort of an uptrend in revenues in Q1.
We hope that this 10% should further definitely increase in the quarters to come because more and more capacity will be unlocked from Navsari to Indore. At the same time, I mentioned that there is no further erosion of prices which is happening in our major category, that is CMO as well as Critical Care and Sparsh. There also we see that we have bottomed out last year in terms of price erosion. We foresee that there would be no other impact of that coming in this year. The natural progression, the natural growth of those divisions coupled with the capacity unlocking from Navsari to Indore would help us achieve the numbers you desire, but in a step-by-step manner.
Understood. Currently, your branded business, Sparsh, where you're selling your own medicine, what part of revenue has that become around about?
It is around INR 55 crores-INR 56 crores annually. That is Sparsh. Critical Care is also the highest one, which is around INR 22 crore- INR 20 crore.
Where do you envision Sparsh reaching in, say, the next two to three years? You're at, say, INR 50-odd crores annually. What's like the internal target?
Internal target would be close to INR 100 crores.
Okay, in the next two to three years?
Two to three years, yes.
Okay. Would you give a guess from thought that, say, FY 2026, you've got around INR 1,000 crore of revenue looking at the capacity utilization and increase and other headroom?
I would love to put a number on it, but yeah, efforts are putting on to reach that magical figure as soon as possible.
Okay. Understood. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Anything from the information? As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah for closing comments.
Sir, thank you very much for joining us.
Ami, I have one question. If you want, we can take it.
Sure. We have the last-minute registration coming from the line of Shubham Selvadia from Tikri Investments. Please go ahead.
Congratulations, sir, on a good checkup number. Sir, I just wanted to know the volume growth which we have earned during the quarter.
If I understand your question right, volume growth would be the total number of vials and capsules and tablets?
No, sir. In percentage terms, like what last during quarter four of FY 2025 and quarter one of FY 2026. What is the volume growth?
Sorry. It will be very difficult for me to comment on that. Normally, we've taken molecule by molecule. We take division by division. Overall, as a company, I will not be able to give you any molecule growth. Anyway, I can just add that our mostly facility in Navsari was saturated. Indore is the additional volume which we have obtained, like I mentioned, 18%. Around, I would say, 18% of 18,000 vials, including ampoules, is the capacity which we have unblocked in the last three months. That would be additional, I think, from April to June. Again, it's a good question. Sorry, I'm not able to give you the exact number. I'll get back to you. I'll take your details, and I think it'll be for me to get back to you with these details specifically.
Okay. Sure. In terms of what percentage of the revenue is coming from export?
I think according to me, export would be around 20%, 20% - 22% of the increasing this year. Roonghta, is that the right understanding?
Yeah, yeah. If out of INR 800 crore of sale, INR 820 crore, INR 160 crore was revenue from last year's 2024-2025, which is around 20%. In Q1, also INR 53 crore out of total is around 20%.
Yeah, right. I think around 20% - 22% is the export revenue.
Okay. Sir, what is the revenue breakdown? It comes from each division?
I just put the.
Sorry, go ahead.
You can see that our segment is only one segment. We will not be actually liable to give any information in the interest of the competitor to give us the breakup of segment-wise details of all the sectors. It's just broadly said to you that total our business is 50% is domestic sale, 20% is export, 20% -2 5% is CMO sale, and remaining is API sale.
Okay.
The number we will not be able to share because of the competitive issue.
If you just understand and just in addition to what Roonghta said in the last two conversations just right five to seven minutes ago, I've given a broad percentage of the domestic mass marketing IVF and Critical Care also. I think you'll get the detail there. Yeah.
Okay, sir. Okay. Thanks for your answers, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Akshada Deo from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Sir, we've been following your company in progress for a while. This quarter, we're seeing a good amount of margin stability, and margins have started to come back to a little bit of the normalization. Can we expect that this would be maintained going forward now that the Indore plant has started to accrue revenues as well?
I mean, as you're mostly talking about gross margins, right?
No, I'm talking EBITDA actually.
EBITDA. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Roonghta rightly replied. I think the issue would be just encapsulating on the asset which we just suggested, you rightly said. Once Indore, because you know there's no further erosion happening in pricing. Once Indore, of course, comes and takes the load off of the company, we hope that these margins should improve. Yes.
Is it right understanding now that the Navsari plant would also start to get more sales because the tech transfers keep on happening? More of the sales will start to happen from the Indore plant. Navsari would also be bottlenecked that was happening in terms of validations, etc. If we just say, you know, a lot of the sales will stop also. That capacity would also start to accrue to sales?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay. Okay. That way, it is not just the new Indore plant. Navsari would also start contributing more because the utilization would be towards sales.
Yeah, I think so. There would be some domestic business and CMO business moving to Indore, and that would help us to open up certain, you know, export opportunities from Navsari, where, of course, the margins also would be driven. It would, yeah, you rightly said, it's both the factories, more importantly, contributing to our growth going forward by amortization of capacities. Yeah.
For the Navsari plant, how much we can see as of now that's being utilized for the tech transfers? I don't think the tech transfers will necessarily stop the business, but if you know, just keep it healthy from what I can understand. I remember you had like 80%- 90% capacity already there, even more because validation batches were also ongoing for various products. Now what would be the free up that has happened from there?
There's actually no free up because the more and more, just like I said, the order booking, I mean, the order thing is still there. The order book is still there, bloated. We are trying to get all those things done. I hope we never reach a level where, you know, we've seen Navsari is now 20, 30% free. We hope it continues at that 80, 90%. Of course, Indore starts paying more with this amortization also. That is the thought process going forward.
Okay.
Just to answer that, as a comment. It is not that, you know, that Navsari, the bottleneck caused underutilization of capacity. It's just that the product mix and the market mix will evolve from Navsari, even though the output may remain the same, which could have some positive delta subject to more price erosions in API. Just to clarify another understanding.
No, no, no. Please feel free to clarify whatever Amit needs. I mean, you mentioned after that we are also, we've added more products, right? Are there any solar boosters and biostimulators or something that you've added along with Stunnox to build a more holistic portfolio?
No.
Can they expand on more?
No, no. I think what Avik meant was we are in the process of licensing an international big brand who has, of course, fillers and biostimulators as well as other cosmetic options, which further render, I mean, which render them fortify our basket surrounding Stunnox. We hope that with that tier, maybe in Q3 or by Q4, let's be more realistic, maybe by Q4, we should get an additional benefit of sending Stunnox further with the help of the fillers and, you know, other products also. That's what I think he meant in the question.
Where are our aspirations for this? Because, as you rightly said, the turnaround that's happening, especially due to just awareness of these procedures, and they're becoming more and more available even in tier two, tier three cities. Where are we with the marketing side? How deep have I reached them? How have we grown here?
If I answer this question, I'll end up with a question for you also, and you can maybe tell me your feedback also. We in India always feel that the consumption is increasing, and that's why you see that our numbers of the toxins are increasing, and the acceptance and awareness are there. We are still waiting for that hockey stick figure. That is where the actual consumption and the actual expenditure of all the people in India is free. We feel that, let's say, an out-of-pocket expense of an average Indian consumer, both male or female, on an ascertained cosmetic space, would be around maybe INR 8,000 - INR 5,000. I'm saying average. I'm not going to all across the economic strata. I'm saying the ones who are relevant and who pay for that.
Even if that goes from INR 3,000 -INR 5,000 to INR 7,000 -INR 9,000, that's still not good enough. The thing would come when the average Indian consumer, even if you look at that strata, comes to an average of around INR 18,000- INR 25,000 per month expenditure. That is when the hockey stick will come in. We still, as a society in India, have to evolve. Of course, we are growing, and we see the number. If you expect the ones like, you know, forget the U.S. and the Koreas and all that of the world, but even if you expect Turkey and Thailand and even Poland and Russia, where we compare, you know, we have, I would say, adoption of cosmetic procedures as to India, we are still lagging far behind. Of course, we hope that we make a difference.
We try to bring the awareness to all. I mean, all the entire cosmetic pharmaceutical as well as aesthetic industries try to make it more. Like I said, I would like to ask you as a consumer, how do you feel your, you know, delta has evolved in the last three years? Have you started spending five times or even three times what you used to spend or still not?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it hurts my pockets sometimes. It's not just these fillers. There are so many laser procedures as well that are now in the market taking more and more utility. Even if I spend, they're getting cost-effective as well. When I compare, for example, one of the most popular procedures that used to be there was laser hair reduction. That used to be, what, INR 10,000, INR 12,000 per session. Now the packages have come to INR 25,000, INR 30,000 for 12 sessions. The cost there has also reduced. If we see the volume, overall volume that I'm like, even I'm from Surat. Even when I see in a city like Surat, the amount of upstairs that's happening is absolutely crazy. When I am talking to, like I've seen clinics rapidly expand just to gain more of this market share.
Fillers as well as botulinum toxin I feel because this is more restrictive for metro cities, this has started to now come here as well, especially with the brighter side of things getting more and more popular.
Absolutely. I think as a shareholder, please start using the word Stunnox now instead of Botox. That really helps us.
That's true. That's exactly true. That is exactly the time.
Thank you. Thank you for calling us. I really appreciate it. If you have any more questions, feel free to reach out to Avik and we'll give you the information.
Thank you. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Yash Tanna from ithoughtpms . Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, team. I hope I've ordered it.
Yes.
Yeah. The products that I had discussed on the new product launches that we have had in the presentation, I was mentioning them to call, so everything's Critical Care. Like, which are the big products that we are betting on? Like we had avibactam, for example, which I think was a fairly successful product for us. Some new products that could be similar to the size of avibactam and, you know, if you can give some indication of the market size for these molecules.
Yeah. ceftazidime and avibactam was, of course, launched in 2022, I believe, and that has seen, or sorry, 2023. That has seen the roadmap being closed to the INR 25 crore mark, which we have. Going further in Critical Care, there are some combination products which are right now with DCG, like aztreonam, avibactam, or others which could come in, which has that, I would say, roadmap going forward. There are two, three more, one once a week antifungal. I think if you refer to slide two post-Indore where we have a pipeline mentioned. In terms of Sparsh, as a focus, we are focusing on the dual chamber bag where we have the supplier to NPPA for a meropenem price increase of almost 30%. I think we have got an intermission of it would be around 15% - 20%, around 15%.
That would help us for the dual chamber bag development front in Sparsh along with teicoplanin, and then followed by contrast media and the end of the year, hopefully by total parenteral nutrition. That would be the roadmap in Sparsh. These are anti-infective, would be mostly the Critical Care lineup. Here in Sparsh would be the dual chamber batch followed by contrast media and then the parenteral nutrition by the end of the year.
Got it. Thanks for that. You mentioned like with Indore coming in on Navsari capacity, you know, becomes free. You also mentioned about the UK tender that you have. What sort of an export visibility do we have that you can cater to from the scale of capacity from, you know, Indore?
I bought the factories you're asking, right?
I'm just trying to understand the visibility that we have in terms of export.
I think Avik has made a wonderful slide. I think it's the last slide of our presentation about the market address because only of eight molecules of us. The eight molecules where we have already our dose already and we have filed from Navsari and hopefully we are filing from Indore also. These are common molecules which can be made on either of the sites. Just to give an example, there are molecules beyond that, but just to show the work that we're having in the background, there is an $824 million, I would say, addressable market which is possible for those molecules where we are trying to easily swap out percent to a little bit to 8% - 10% in the next three to five years. Those are the work happening beyond in the background to give you just an indication.
Like that, there are around every quarter, three to four molecules where those are being formed in ampoules, liquids, and alliole, which we are trying to take it forward. Let's say, step by step, we are trying to level to unlock the Navsari and Indore with that sort of a roadmap.
Sure. Fair to assume that the scale-up of this INR 800 million opportunity will happen over the next time. We don't have the orders currently, but obviously over two to three years, we'll try to scale that opportunity.
Some of the orders, like I said, already have been coming to us from Brazil, Canada, UK, Europe, Portugal, for that matter, and other countries. Some of them we call, we need more of them. Those already have been unlocked from Navsari. As and when more and more capacity is being shifted to Indore as a CMO as well as a domestic space, domestic one brand, we are hoping that we can cater to that. Already the process has started in terms of numbers also. What you have seen, assuming Navsari will contribute more this year in terms of export. Hopefully from next year goal, Navsari and Indore start contributing in exports.
Got it, sir. Very clear. The last question was, I mean, on BOTOX , I'm sorry, on botulinum toxins.
Yeah, right.
You spoke about the hockey stick growth, the accelerating the hockey stick growth in this product. I wanted to understand, and we have discussed this in the past, your plans for the international foray with this product. Maybe that could be the hockey stick growth that we are looking for. Any plans you've formed up for this product in the international market since it's well accepted and there's already market for it?
Very frankly, if you see now, beyond Stunnox, also there's a lot to do with the Indore and Navsari and our domestic business team. Right now, we are very clear and very focused that Stunnox's work has to be in the home ground, that is India. There is enough, I would say, opportunity available here where you can make it. Unfortunately, even though being in a very exciting and a very, you know, cool world of Stunnox, still it contributes only a small percentage of our total business. The other business also has a lot of, you know, a higher roadmap and a higher ceiling still to be achieved. Our focus is in the domestic market to focus and bring in the premium. That's why we are enlightening these other, I would say, multinational brands to be part of Stunnox's basket also.
However, maybe after two, three years, once we are a little bit better leveraged in terms of technology policies to take the international route, till then we feel that there's enough work to be done in India. I think also you have to remember it's not the question only of money and resources. It's the bandwidth of the people. The bandwidth would be better suited to first, you know, exploit Indore, exploit Navsari, exploit our domestic business, CMO business, as well as export of our main business, and take Stunnox and the basket in India and make it at least close to, you know, elegance, presence, all. Already we are number two. Number two, by having only 12% market share is not good enough. Increase the market share to at least 30%- 40% and create a good, I would say, executive year in India first and then take it abroad.
Got it. Very clear. If one last question, if I may, I wanted to know plans on debt repayment and utilization of the cash at the equity that you raised from institutional investor.
You're talking about the 2023 inflow, right, of Motilal Oswal .
Right.
The driver of Motilal as well. I mean, what's the plan on debt repayment?
Yeah. I think Roonghta will be a better person to answer that. However, I'll just talk about the utilization of the inflow. Some part was used for, of course, debt repayment, which was already existing there of Navsari or before of the Penem factory. We used almost 30%- 40% in our further, actually, 40%- 45% in our those years and other, I would say, finishing off. The remaining was used, of course, as a part of our working capital to fortify Indore further. I think Roonghta, maybe you can make it more precise and give a better reply than me. Yeah.
Basically, for the year 2025-2026, the cash flow will be under pressure because the Indore facility will require additional working capital. When the sale will be good to pick up, we feel there will be no surplus cash at least for 2027. After 2027, the cash flow will start generating the cash. We feel we utilize it to repay the term loan as early as possible. The remaining will be kept to repay the working capital loan. I think the company will become debt-free by 2029.
All right, got it. Thanks a lot, and best of luck.
Thank you. Our next follow-up question comes from the line of Nitya Shah from KamayaKya Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. I also remember that a fellow friend of mine visited Arisia Bombay gave me some excellent reviews that you run the world-class clinic. I just wanted to ask that, have you opened any other clinics in the country, or is this the only one here?
Yes. Again, I think our main focus is to make Stunnox and the entire basket big. Opening multiple clinics is not our first, and it's not our interest, you know, because we opened Arisia as an experience center, as a training center where we can actually fortify the skills and the, what do you call, the application of doctors in India. We know we have excellent doctors, but sometimes there are new techniques coming from abroad where we use Arisia as an interface to not only train them, develop them, but also to give knowledge to other doctors. As of now, our focus would be to increase the Stunnox brand name and the basket aesthetic revenue purely. Clinics would not be a focus right now. Our core competency is different. It's more about branding, about market penetration.
Arisia will continue and flourish because as a training center, we are getting a lot of positive feedback. Thanks to you also for your positive feedback. There are a lot of doctors who are visiting. Maybe some doctors don't have a facility or they don't have anything. They come and use Arisia for their own practice. There's a lot of collaboration happening there. That is where the focus would be.
Just a suggestion. I know your focus is not on the clinics, but in my view, like you have noticed as per market trend that, you know, Delhi, Chandigarh have a lot of demand for this kind of product. I feel with the advent of Arisia and all these things, you should have another, like this is just my suggestion, to have another Arisia clinic experience center in a posh location in Delhi. It will help a lot with, like, you know, awareness of your brand and the fact that India has a domestic player doing all of this kind of work because most of the time, people have this view of, you know, doing this work abroad. They want to keep it under their wraps and all of those kinds of things.
I feel that if you increase the awareness in the metro cities like Delhi where there's demand for this kind of product, you could suddenly see an influx. It might hurt the pocket in the start, but you will see the benefits come in later.
I think at this point, I'll tell you how we work on that. I think, you know, what our strategy is that a lot of doctors or, you know, a lot of doctors' kids who are just starting out, they have the capital, they have the space, and they want to set up a clinic. We , Arisia, actually, all our doctors at Arisia plus our entire team helps these doctors set up their teams and set up their practices. We import SOPs of ours about the best practices also, and we help them set up a clinic. What we ask them in return is, of course, help us to create data about Stunnox and the different products from the Indian population. As you rightly said, we are an interface of getting, I would say, international, global new products, energy devices where we empower these things.
Just to answer your question in a much more specific way, we don't want to replicate our own, and we don't want to go for that capital good where we invest capital and create our own setups. We want, and we want to empower doctors in India and train them to set up their own and become independent call centers and conference centers on their own, which we service via products, services, and best practices. That's how we foresee in the next three to five years, we'll make a big brand.
Got it. Could you throw some more light on the licensing deal for Stunnox ? You mentioned that there's some licensing deal with a foreign major. I do want to understand the status of that.
Yeah. We have got an offer in the middle where we had to form a separate entity where we had to dilute some equity. We got an offer, but then we realized that, as Roonghta also rightly said, maybe in the next two years, we should have our own, I would say, cash flow where we can fund our own independent foray rather than giving someone equity at this time. At this time, even if it's a separate entity or grouping, it doesn't make sense. We got the deal, but at this time, we have decided to let it go, focus on the India market, and in the next two to three years, maybe foray into the international markets on our own without anything.
Sorry. The larger portfolio that you're in licensing for, I think the biostimulators and fillers.
Oh, sorry. Anyway, Avik, maybe you can answer that.
What was mentioned in the PPT?
Oh, okay. Sorry. I think I missed your question. Avik, please go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah. There is a bit, as you mentioned in our PPT, in our aesthetic space, we are only offering the toxin as of now. You felt like the very first application done on a patient is typically not a toxin, and it's a roadmap. You have filler and double stabs, you know, very widely used now. Now you have biostimulators. You have skin boosters. All of this will just help us create a wider portfolio, and we can start engaging with clinicians for a much bigger basket of indications. We had options to either develop it on our own, and being an R&D-driven company, which was a very tempting thought.
However, we felt like it may help Stunnox if we can in-license an existing player, a well-accepted player who has done a lot of clinical studies, has a lot of clinical data to prove against the current offerings in the market. We are in talks with, as we mentioned, one of the largest filler brands in the world. They have almost $100 million sales of fillers just in the U.S. and they have a lot of clinical trial data as well. We should be closing that deal very soon on the commercial basis. That's largely we could just widen our portfolio, create a larger ramp for Stunnox to move doctors onto Stunnox, as well as even our clients and patients in the future.
Just for me to understand, if you could share a range of possible revenue potential for you from this licensing agreement, because I feel this could change course for the company. Getting a licensing agreement would be very good at this stage for the product.
Yes. I think let's keep something for the coming few quarters also. That will really help us. In the meantime, let us first find the deal, get a roadmap, get a prediction, and then we'll keep something. We'll discuss that in the next two countries.
My last question is regarding, you mentioned commercialization of the immune therapy. Any timeline you would like to share on that and the potential for that?
No. At this moment, no. I think it's too preliminary. It's happening in the background. Once it comes to any relevant thing, we'll definitely share it with you.
Sure. Thank you, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Bhavya Sonawala.
Hello.
Yes, Savya sir, your line is in the last piece.
Yeah. Just one question. We spoke about how we might consider moving away from the direct-to-packaging approach. Will that affect our margins going ahead? Any thoughts on that?
Definitely, there would be some impacts. I don't say that, but I think that would be obstacle, you know, that would be obstacle to the products which we are coming up with right now. I don't feel that there would be that much of an impact by moving this. That's where the strategy is happening. That is where Mr. Kaul is coming on board right now. We are working with the product mix with the help of the dual chamber bags and the contrast media where we offset this by using a different channel, a distribution channel option. There will be definitely a loss of revenue because of things, but that will be offset overall as a sponge when we have other production phase.
Okay. Can this work in a hybrid model or that's a difficult?
No, no. It makes no sense. I mean, it's a little bit challenging because, you know, there will be a lot of things too. As a system and SOPs in place, it's becoming challenging if you do that. We have a single thing where we take care of the cash flow and the packaging.
Sure. Understood. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Kaumar Saurabh from Scientific Innovations.
Sorry, I think I just have a hard stop at 1:00 P.M. Let's hope that we can take this last question and then we can just go on to the next thing. If it's open with everyone, if it's okay with everyone. Yeah.
Sure, sir.
Sir, a question regarding growth in the margins. One, the Indore plant to contribute to growth and also the 18% export number, we are hopeful of taking it to 25%. In terms of the business units, where do you see higher share of growth coming? That is one. Second is because export will, if export increases from 18% to 25%, and given Indore is a new plant technology-wise, it will be much better. Do you see better margins in export going up and the Indore contributing?
Yeah, I think I've answered some part of it, but I'll request Avik to take this question. Avik, if you don't mind, then Devkinandan can take it forward. Avik, are you there?
Yes, I'm there. I'm there.
Please take it.
I think Avik can guide on the margin side. On the product side, we've already scored, you know, on our potentials.
Yeah, go ahead, Roonghta.
Yes. Basically, if you see here in 2025-2026, because of the Indore coming, we already said the capacity utilization will be going to pick up slowly. There will be a margin research in the year 2026-2027. In 2027-2028, we will expect the margin will improve. Definitely, after increasing the export as well as export, I think if it gets us to 25%, there will be increasing in the EBITDA margin by 1%. I feel that EBITDA margin will grow to term only after two years, not from 2026-2027 and 2027-2028. In 2028-2029, all of us, I will see that the EBITDA margin will start picking up.
Okay. Sir, in terms of incremental growth by business, where do you see future growth coming?
It's a very difficult question because you see there are a lot of things depending upon FDA permission from the U.S., [the EU, RPG,] and permissions from Europe. All this validation bag is going to take time. At this moment of time, to anticipate exact expected turnover is very difficult.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I now hand the conference back to Ms. Ami Shah for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you all for joining us today. If you have any further questions or any questions have remained unanswered, we request you to reach out to our investor relations team, and we'll be happy to address them separately. With that, we conclude today's call. Thank you. Take care.
Thank you. On behalf of Gufic Biosciences Limited , that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.