Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Q3 FY 2022 results conference call of Berger Paints India Limited, hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services. We have with us today Mr. Srijit Dasgupta, Director Finance and CFO, and Mr. Sujyoti Mukherjee, Vice President, Finance and Accounts. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ashit Desai from Emkay Global Financial Services. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thanks, Rutuja. Good evening, everyone. We'd like to welcome the management of Berger Paints and thank them for this opportunity. It's a pleasure to host them for this Q3 earnings call. I'll now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, Srijit.
Thanks, Ashit. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to all of you to the Q3 FY 2022 earnings conference call for Berger Paints India Limited. As usual, commence with a few statements or remarks about the standalone and consolidated quarterly performance, and then invite questions from the participants. The standalone numbers look like this. For the quarter, total income from operations grew by 21.2%. PBDIT de-grew by 9.1%. PAT de-grew by 13.1%. Some remarks on the factors which influenced the performance. Quarter was characterized by sustained growth in the top line for all businesses.
The growth in the automotive business was a little muted compared to the other business lines, mainly because of the two-wheeler business, which was significantly affected by a significant drop in the production numbers in the industry for the quarter. The quarter also saw, as everyone knows by now, significant raw material price increases, which found its way into the P&L since the inventory effect of carrying lower cost raw materials and finished goods pretty much played out by the end of the last quarter, meaning Q2 of FY 2022. The increases were seen mainly in monomers, butyl acrylate in particular. This goes into emulsion production for water-based products and emulsions. Solvents, phthalic anhydride, vegetable oils, et cetera.
The raw material price effect was also partially offset by finished goods price increases in the decorative, the protective coatings and powder businesses. The cumulative price increases taken till December 2021 in decorative business was approximately 24%, and we are calculating this from January 2021. Even though the bulk of the increases came only in the second half of the quarter, meaning Q3 FY 2022, and therefore had only a partial impact on the quarter numbers. Going forward, the full effect of the price increases should be visible both in top line and profit numbers, barring any further spike in raw material prices. The price increases in other business lines like general, industrial and automotive did lag behind, however, more than decorative. Therefore more price increases will be taken in Q4 of FY 2022.
The general, industrial and automotive business in particular suffered the most in terms of gross margin contraction in this quarter, but should improve in terms of margins from Q4 onwards. Raw materials continued to rule firm at the end of the quarter and into January of 2022. The company also managed to offset some impact of the raw material price increases through vendor development and reformulation activity. Some of these initiatives we'd already spoken about in earlier calls. The initiatives had been taken earlier, but the effects of which are now playing out. There was also some effect of a better product mix, particularly in decorative business, through higher growth of better contributing products.
Newer products, like the higher end water-based primers, admixtures, did very well in the quarter in terms of sales, as did the construction chemical workhorses, mainly the sealing compounds and the damp-proofing products. As usual, the advertised products showed significant growth well above the business line average. In this quarter, the metros and larger towns showed a good, we think, festival demand and indicative of a strong post-Covid bounce back, as did the institutional project end of the decorative business. This concludes my remarks for the standalone business. I'll now move on to the consolidated numbers. In the quarter, the total income from operations grew by 20.4%. PBDIT de-grew by -5.3% and PAT de-grew by -8%.
Berger Jenson & Nicholson Nepal, that's our Nepal subsidiary, and SCPL, the special coatings, grew very strongly in the top line, though SCPL was impacted at the gross margin level by sharp increases in raw materials. This is essentially a general industrial type of business. Bolix Poland, STP, that's the construction chemical subsidiary, and Special Coatings all suffered gross margin contraction on account of raw material price increases, though the effect of this was more than offset by the reduced mark-to-market foreign exchange fluctuation losses in BPOL Russia in this quarter compared to Q3 of FY 2021, meaning that there were little or no fluctuation losses in Q3 of FY 2022, so the comparison is more favorable when we look at the numbers versus Q3 FY 2021. Price increases are being taken for all these businesses and margins should improve going forward.
The JVs, BNPAC and Berger Becker also had very strong top-line growths, though both predictably suffered on account of raw material price increases. However, price increases have already been taken and more price increases are planned for Q4, and therefore margins should improve for both. This concludes my opening remarks. I now invite questions from the participants on the results.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, to ask a question you may press star and one. The first question is from the line of Abneesh Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks, sir. My first question is on the discounting and promotions. In Q2, we are seeing other players were very aggressive on discounting promotions. Now in Q3, all the paint companies took price hike. Has the high promotions and discount reduced the abnormality? Has that gone away? When I see on a two-year basis standalone numbers for you and the market leader, EBITDA growth is very similar on a two-year basis. On a sales growth, you are lagging the market leader significantly. Would you be worried on that? I'm comparing standalone numbers here.
Thanks, Abneesh. A good question. I should clarify the position by saying that, you know, our numbers both from the volume and value perspective for the quarter are in the context of a mixed business line perspective, meaning 20% of our numbers are industrial businesses. So on the decorative front, I think that would be a fairer comparison with the market leader and competition. We are not that far behind. That's one. Secondly, in Q3 of FY 2021, we did have a fair number of supply and apply contracts. These are like typically feast and famine type of businesses, which did shore up the Q3 FY 2021 numbers a little bit.
If we apply these two normalizing factors and talk only of our decorative business, we are not that far behind. Perhaps a little bit, but really not that much and not a matter of concern, certainly for this quarter. Of course, going forward, we have our eyes on the cumulative numbers, the YTD numbers, and we certainly don't want to give up market share. That's a point that I think we should make. If whatever it takes, we will have to do. I think that point should be made clear. I thought I should just explain the overall growth numbers for the quarter in the context of our industrial business and the supply and apply contracts.
Sure. That's useful. My question on the discounting bit. The 18% or the 17%, whatever cumulative price hike the industry has taken, is it being actually effective also, or is there a fair bit of discounting on that? Are we looking at a good mid-teens kind of a price growth effective?
Yes. I did refer, meaning that we will do what it takes, but I think the discounting has been a little abnormal in certain product categories. I won't go into details. We have responded a little less actively or aggressively in those product categories. Going forward, we will do what it takes to retain market share.
Sure. My second and essentially last question, and there are two parts to this. You mentioned in two-wheelers, because of the significant slowdown, because of the various reasons, you were impacted. How significant a player are you in two-wheeler painting? And second, you also mentioned whichever products were advertised, they did well, much better than company average. Could you elaborate on that? Which products? Which brands?
Two-wheelers is a significant part of our auto business. You know, the bulk of it is essentially two-wheelers. You might recall that we gave up our three-wheeler and auto passenger car business into the JV with Nippon Paint. The standalone numbers really deal with commercial vehicles and two-wheelers. Obviously we did suffer significantly. We did grow in the automotive business in the standalone company, but not nearly as much as deco or protective coatings. That's a point that we probably need to explain. Going forward, this will unwind for sure. This is I thought something that needs a little explanation.
On the advertising bit, you said.
No, no.
products that were advertised.
No. On the advertised products, it's expected that these are premium products and will get the better growth. That's been consistent. It's not something unusual or new. We've always outperformed the other products when it came to the advertised products.
Okay. Got it. Okay, that's all from my side. Thank you.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Avi Mehta from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, Srijit. Hi, Sujyoti. I had a few questions first on essentially the margins. You know, we did see price increase in November and December. With that, would it be fair to expect gross margin to normalize to that 40-odd% mark in standalone and 41%-odd mark in consolidated as most of the inflation is broadly behind us? Obviously, at current levels, I'm not saying what happens further, we don't really know. It's an uncertain climate.
Absolutely. I think I'll just qualify that assertion with one remark, that we are in the process of taking up prices in our industrial business.
Mm-hmm.
It's not a whole lot of in terms of percentage, it's only about 19 or 20% of our total business. The raw material price increases have actually impacted this business a little more than decorative and therefore the need to take up prices further in Q4. If that is successfully concluded and done, we should be somewhere near the earlier years growth contributions.
The second part on that was essentially on the supply and apply contracts. Now, if I remember correctly, they tend to weigh more on the other expenses and hit on the gross margins, or was it the other way around? If you could help us understand how does it flow on the accounting side?
Sure. Typically what happens is the other expenses get inflated by the extent of the contractual labor and expense element.
Mm-hmm.
Raw materials naturally forming a lower percentage of the overall contract value tends to get pushed down. That happens when there are significant supply and apply contracts. You're very right. The raw materials tend to get, as a percentage to sales, the ratio tends to get depressed or reduced, and the other expenses tend to get shored up. If you see our numbers this quarter, one has to take that into account. Meaning what looks like a significant saving in other expenses ratio to sales is not actually so.
The other expenses are lower, and then what-
Yeah. For the Q3 FY 2022. Yes, for sure.
Yeah. What is being reported is actually lower than what is actually the case because of supply and apply as a percentage of sales.
Meaning the expense on advertisement, sales promotion, all the other inputs which go into you know the sales support expenses, those are actually increasing healthily. Any cap or reduction that you might notice in terms of ratios at least is mainly on account of the supply and apply contracts.
Perfect. Lastly, if it's okay, I just wanted to understand the industrial bit a little better. You did highlight some price increases required. Were you able to quantify how much is already done and how much is remaining so we get a sense on, you know, what's the journey we are looking at, I mean, to kind of-
This is a little complicated.
I know it's a mix of a lot of things.
You know, the price increases taken are in a phased manner. Price increases which were taken in the second half of December, for example, in industrial business, would have had little or no impact on the quarter three numbers. There are of course some more price increases to be taken. It suffices to say that there is a significant amount of price increase effect that should come in in Q4 for the industrial business.
Okay. I'll come back in the queue for the other questions. I have some few questions, but I'll come back. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, Srijit. Hi, Sujyoti. Thanks for the opportunity. Yeah. My first question pertains to demand in general. This quarter has been slightly challenging and confusing for us analysts also because different baskets of demand have responded differently to the quarter. Just wanted to get a sense that, as a category, if you can give some sense on rural, urban, on regional read-through on the demand for this quarter and then also in coming quarters.
Sure. I think I mentioned in the opening remarks that the metros did better in terms of growth rates, surely for us and for everybody else, I'm sure. That's probably a sort of post-COVID recovery situation, before the third wave kind of kicked in really and post the second wave. There was a period of recovery, some festival demand, surely. I think that probably goes towards explanation of the rural and urban kind of balance, which went in favor of urban this time in this quarter. Probably also needs to be seen in the context of a two-year or a three-year CAGR kind of situation. Then, of course, there were quarters when tier one really did very badly.
Okay. That's very helpful. The second question pertains to the phenomenon that we started seeing in FMCG, which is D2C, is now gradually picking up in paints also, not in a similar fashion, but we are hearing that many resellers are now being bypassed as the leader is actually expanding its footprint in rural areas directly. That's why they are adding some unprecedented numbers of dealers in the network. Any similar aggressive expansion? We usually in the past have done 10% addition. Any aggression or change in number that we also want to do there? Any comment you can offer on that, going deep rural directly rather than going through wholesaler or retail.
Not wholesaler, but resellers that we used to have.
Absolutely. I think that's consistent with our strategies as well. You know, expand the network, particularly in rural as much as possible, even in the cities and the suburbs as well, I mean, rather than hammer away at established positions. That's absolutely. We are very optimistic that this can be done. Maybe that reflects part of what FMCG is saying or suggesting in terms of feedback to you.
Yeah. Any number you can give on distribution expansion that we are doing, dealership expansion?
Not really. We'll come up with more numbers after Q4. Again, to help you, I might say this year, after of course a relatively weaker COVID affected year last year, we had fantastic growth rates in distribution and network. Every hope that next year will be even better.
Great. The last one, so you briefly touched upon while answering couple of questions earlier, that pricing discipline in the industry is back, and Abneesh also asked on the rebate part. But are you seeing any discipline going away in industry on credit period as well, in terms of receivables and people are pushing or are offering lenient terms to deliver growth in the industry?
I respond to that by saying that we haven't done very much. I can't respond on behalf of my colleagues in the other companies. We haven't done very much to move away from our established principles. We still hang on to the credit limits offered earlier and the slabs and the policy.
Are you seeing this being done by competition at large?
Yeah, yeah. To answer your question, yes.
Okay. That's all from my side, sir, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Varun Singh from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sujyoti sir, on the new emerging competition which is coming up in paint sector, sir, any comments that you wish to offer?
Not yet, but I think we have actively watching all the markets. One of these players has become a little aggressive in the last couple of quarters, and we're watching them very carefully. The other one perhaps you are indicating is not yet fully into operation, so that will take some time. They will take a little more time. For sure we're keeping an eye on them. The most recent entrant in terms of this particular, the decorative business, has also become quite aggressive. We're keeping an eye on these two competitors, of course, and the third one to follow shortly.
Right. Sure, sir. Sir, in third quarter, there has been aggressive inventory loading at dealer and distributor level due to the fear of price hike. I mean, are you expecting, as a consequence, demand in next quarter, which is fourth quarter, to be relatively impacted because of this inventory loading which has already happened? Any commentary over there?
Well, actually it may have affected the January numbers to some extent, but for the quarter it should get averaged out. I don't expect any significant dent.
Right. Sure, sir. Sir, just one last question, if I may. Sir, is there any change? I think Tejas has already asked on distribution. I just wanted to have a clear-cut understanding on this, that is there any change in you know in our strategy to handle this entire distribution of paint products, you know? For example, going through a wholesaler or you know instead of supplying paint directly to retailers primarily to aggressively grow our distribution in the rural hinterland.
We try everything. I mean, I can't say that we exclude any particular strategy. That would be wrong for me. We do try in selected markets. This may work in some markets where we are not strong. We try all possible strategies.
Okay. Sure, sir. Sir, that's it from my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Just two questions. Can we see that you did mention that the volume growth was in the domestic decorative at 28%. Would you be able to help me explain which segment has grown faster and which segment was lagging?
Within deco?
Yeah, within decorative.
I think I mentioned that the advertised products grew very well, so all the quality emulsions and associated primers and all the putties and the powder paints grew less. I think that's an overall remark I can make.
Sir, the reason why I'm asking, while speaking to channel partners, I think North had shown lot of problems in terms of the mass end of the product, maybe because of inflation or any other things or slowdown. How did it fare for us in the quarter?
I can't be specific about regions. I'm sorry, I can't tell you. I'll indicate that, yes, in one or two areas or locations in the North, we did have our share of issues, but hopefully being sorted out and Q4 will be better. You're right, there were some isolated pockets which had problems.
This is my specific question. I mean, you can say yes or no. The reason why I'm asking you, I mean, the quarter which is gone by we have seen, but is there a recovery which has happened in last 45-50 days in this quarter? I mean, quarter four when you want to-
I can't comment on this quarter. Sorry.
Okay. My last question is on the year to date since April. What is the price increases gone in? And maybe if you can help me, what is the current inflation? I'm sure we don't know what's going to come in quarter four in next time. If you can help me, what is the current inflation averaging and how much price increases you have taken to mitigate the cost inflation?
Are you talking of decorative or industrial businesses?
If you can split both, or maybe more importantly, decorative at least.
I think Decorative has seen, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, nearly 24%-25% increases since January 2021. So that's a hefty chunk and should, barring any further raw material price increase, help restore margins. So that's the Decorative part of the business. Having said that, crude has jumped a bit in January by about $6-$7 per barrel. Even though it doesn't affect all the Decorative raw materials, but there is an impact on things like solvents and phthalic anhydride, maybe a delayed effect on monomers as well at some point of time. That's a little bit of a concern, and we're keeping an eye on that.
In terms of the industrial businesses, the price increases have lagged behind the decorative business. I think it would be fair to make that comment. The need for further price increases to be taken beyond what we've taken in decorative.
Okay. What I need to understand that whatever we have taken so far in decorative is largely sufficient to save our margin in decorative. While you did mention that in the industrial, we will try and make an attempt to match it in the maybe next couple of months.
Yes.
Is that the fair understanding?
Yeah.
Wonderful. Thank you, Srijit Dasgupta, and all the best to you and the team.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mihir Shah from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Good evening, Mr. Dasgupta. Good evening. I wanted to just check on if you can just throw some more light on the gross margins and the impact of supply and apply contracts. Essentially, you know, sequentially, we have seen margins contracting despite sharp price hikes. I understand the increase in raw materials and the delayed effect of price hikes taken, but, you know, sequentially margins contracting is, you know, concerning, and you did mention it's also because of supply and apply contracts. A broad range as a percentage of sales, you know, how much of these contracts would be as a percentage of sales? And in the first two quarters also, if you can throw some light on what our margins versus peers or margins have been a little better than in the earlier quarters.
However, in this quarter, there has been a deviation in trend. While peers have seen a sequential improvement, we have not. Earlier quarters we were doing much better in margins. Were supply and apply contracts also a function of your margin, better margins in earlier quarters?
No, not really. I think my comments on supply and apply were only meant to explain the top line growth and the relatively lower percentage of other expenses to sales in this quarter. That is the only comment I offered. In terms of overall margins, the supply and apply contracts are not a sufficiently large component to really affect the overall company margins. I think I should-
Right.
I make myself quite clear there. That's one. If we were to explain the comparison with peers, your second remark was that, you know, there's been a bit of an up and down in terms of competitors who've actually seen some very or one competitor really, who've seen fairly significant improvements in margin. I can't speak on behalf of them, but I think you're better to look at the YTD numbers, the nine-month numbers, where you will see a gradual reduction in the gap between the relative net margins of the two companies. That's all I can offer in reply. I'm not really privy to what were the compulsions for them in terms of lower margins in Q2.
Right. No, I get that point. According to you, sir, what would you kind of really put emphasis to on the sequential contraction of margins for your company, forgetting peers and their performance?
Purely raw materials, I mean that's the story to a large extent. I mean, we've had hefty price increases, so hopefully going forward that situation will be rectified.
Okay. Yeah, because you did mention that you have seen a better mix. Earlier, before your opening comments, I thought mix might have been at play, which impacted, but maybe since you clarified mix was not and you would put raw material as the key, culprit for the contraction on a sequential basis.
Yes.
Got it. Thank you so much, sir. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praful Kumar from Dymon Asia. Please go ahead. Praful Kumar, please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. Mr. Praful Kumar, may we request you to unmute yourself. It's muted from your handset. We would request Mr. Kumar to please rejoin the queue. A reminder to the participants: to ask a question, please press star and one. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one now. The next question is from the line of Mihir Shah from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Sorry, sir. One more follow-up. With respect to inventory, would we still have three months inventory of raw materials with us? Would it be that in the earlier quarters we had higher inventory, as, you know, you would have foreseen, you know, linear increase in raw materials, so you might have kind of increased your inventory and that low cost inventory would have depleted. Can that be also one of the key reasons?
I did mention in my opening remarks that did play out in Q2 fully.
Right.
Q3, we didn't have the benefit of those buffers.
Right.
Maybe you missed that.
Right.
I did say in my opening remarks that that had something to do with the increase in raw material prices as far as the P&L is concerned. You are absolutely right. That did happen. Obviously, in a really inflationary situation, you know, there's a limit to how much inventory you can. It's always, you have to take a call as to whether it will dip or flatten out or peak. That call is sometimes difficult to take. We did get the benefit of higher low cost inventories in Q2, to some extent in Q1, but that played out, that story played out fully by the end of Q2. Q3, we bore the full brunt of the price increases.
Understood. Inventory would be about 1.5-2 months or more than that as well, sir?
Between raw material and finished goods together would be close to a little less than two months. Yes.
Got it. All right. Thank you so much. That's all from myself.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praful Kumar from Dymon Asia. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Congratulations on good results. Just one question, given the competitive nature and intensity heating up, are you facing any HR challenges or how are you ensuring the talent retention at the firm? Thank you, sir.
It's very interesting. Can you be a little closer to the mic, please? I couldn't quite get all of it.
Given that competitive intensity is heating up and we are looking at a formidable, you know, large player coming in.
I'm very sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Kumar, but your voice is sounding muffled, sir. It is not clearly audible.
Is it audible now? Is it still not audible?
Better.
Yeah. My question was given that competitive intensity is heating up and the large player is coming in terms of talent retention any key measures that you have taken, any attrition that you have seen lately at the firm, mid-level? Just some thoughts on that.
I can only respond in broad terms. I think I can't talk specifically about strategies. That would not be right. Yes, I think our focus on innovation, new products and network expansion continues.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Varun Singh from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sujyoti, sir, you know, at company level, what is the policy that we follow for tinting machine distribution? Do we charge to the retailer or we offer them for free in exchange of sales target? If you can give some highlight on that, sir.
Yeah. So far as these Color Bank machines are concerned, I think it's a mix of both. Of course, we do offer certain credits in respect of achievement of certain volumes.
What would be the typical, you know, amount that we are charging to retailers when we offer our tinting machine?
There is nothing specific about it. I mean, as I said that, you know, it depends upon the volume achieved, and there are, I think, slabs as per the volume achieved by the dealer.
Okay, sir. Understood, sure. Thank you very much. That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abneesh Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. A few follow-ups, sir. One is on distribution. Have you tried or do you think it is possible to sell paint via the cement shop? Specifically asking because the new player obviously is a cement behemoth. Is it possible to sell paint through the cement shop?
Yeah, good question, Abneesh. This is something that everybody is grappling with. Let's see what the next few quarters tell us.
You have never evaluated?
No, no. We have. Of course, we have. Yes. Yes, we have.
What is the feedback?
It is difficult because the nature of the product is different from paint and, as opposed to the builder, here it is the painter who's going. Definitely there's an opportunity there, and it is being tried for sure as we speak.
Et cetera. In a 5-rupee, 10-rupee FMCG also, Indian consumer currently is downtrading towards more grammage. In your case, consumer has to spend INR 40,000, INR 70,000. Now what has happened across range of products, the features which you offer are fairly good. It is not that in a lower end the product benefits are bad. Do you see downtrading happening because there is a slowdown in rural big time, 18% price growth, there are other kind of challenges, job challenge, salary challenge, everything kind of a challenge is there. I'm not saying it is a gloom and doom scenario. I'm just saying in the current context, downtrading can it happen? I'm not asking on Q3 because Q3 price growth was still transitory.
Q4 and onwards, do you see that as a risk?
Nothing so far, Abneesh. I mean, rather on the contrary, we've seen our mix improve in all markets. This is something that gives us hope that you know, the market is recovered from the COVID scenario. Let's keep our fingers crossed. To answer your question, no, we don't see anything yet.
Okay, final question. In FMCG, whenever sharp inflation happens, there is some product reengineering, some savings in packaging, some ingredient swapping and all that which keeps happening. In your case, obviously this, it's a 40-year high inflation. I'm not asking for specifics because that will be too sensitive, but have you done some kind of product reengineering, some kind of a packaging change to cut costs?
Not packaging, but for sure we do formulation improvements, which also includes cost reduction activity. Very clearly the brief is that quality has to be the same, if not better. That's the principle on which we work on. Of course, I spoke about formulation and reformulation savings, but for sure not at the cost of quality.
Okay. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurang from Haitong Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, my question is regarding the industrial price increases. You indicated that the price increases are not in tandem with decorative and bulk of price increase will happen in Q4. Sir, one of the peers who is a heavyweight in the industrial business, for them, the price increase for both deco as well as industry is almost similar. Why this disparity for us? Because largely the customers for industrial business, say auto or even non-auto, would be similar for us as well as for them. Just wanted your thoughts on this part.
I can't speak on behalf of competitors. I hope I can only clarify my position. Yes, we have a more widespread number of customers, particularly in our general industrial. We have taken significant price increases in our powder business, in our protective coatings business, the two elements of industrial business where the price increases have kept up, perhaps with decorative. My comments were limited mainly to the automotive part of the business, and that too, really the two-wheelers.
Okay. For two-wheeler, we would take price increase in Q4. Largely for non-autos, we are at par in terms of pricing.
Absolutely. Also to clarify, the price increases and the effect of the price increases, there may be a lag. Meaning if we take price increases in December, the full effect will only be achieved in Q4.
Yeah. That's fine. Okay. Secondly, on the RM index number, if you can share versus the last year Q3 or FY 2021, what would be the weighted average RM cost index currently?
In terms of increases, I think it's been very hefty. The RM price increases are somewhere in the region of 28%-29% over the last year in terms of increases. This is at the RM level. As a ratio to sales, that would be somewhere in the region of 15% -16% or thereabouts.
Okay. This 20% or 29% would be similar for deco as well as non-deco, right?
Pretty much. Less so in deco for the water-based maybe, though water-based also suffered very significant increases because of monomer price increases. The impact on industrial businesses would be a little more.
Okay. Yeah, that's it, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Before we prompt the next participant, a reminder to the people, anyone who wishes to ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Avi Mehta from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. Just one bit I wanted to clarify. The comment that you've made in the presentation that demand was sustained even after significant price increases, it implies that the volume decline is equal to the price increase that has happened. Is that understanding is correct, right, sir?
in terms of our comment was limited to the observation that even though we had price increases, say in the middle of November.
Mm-hmm
There was the sales continued, meaning the growth continued into November and December. I think that was the intention.
That is value, right? That's what I wanted to kind of reconfirm. I mean, it seems that it is value growth that you're talking about has continued.
No, also volume. Meaning it was not significantly dented by the fact that we had a significant price increase in the middle of November.
The volume growth also has not been impacted. The volume growth has sustained. That's what it means.
Yes, yes. Volume was roughly, if we normalize it for deco, I mean, we'll have to talk about.
For deco, yes.
Yeah, yeah. That was not significantly impacted because of the price increases is what we are saying. Meaning, sales continued.
Perfect, sir. That's all I wanted to clarify. Thank you very much.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashit Desai from Emkay Global Financial Services. Please go ahead. Mr. Ashit Desai, please go ahead with the question. Your line is unmuted.
Hello, can you hear me now?
Yes, I can.
Yes, yes, Ashit, go ahead.
Yeah. Srijit wanted to know the network expansion that you guys are doing, what's the mix with respect to that? How much is it in metros? Or if you can give some split as to urban tier three, tier four, et cetera. In your assessment, how much of the growth is coming to this incremental network expansion?
I can't give you the numbers, but I can say that the network expansion is mainly in the non-tier one, non-metro cities. That is where the opportunity is the most. I think we are quite happy with our performance in FY 2022. As I mentioned earlier, FY 2021 was a bit of an outlier because of the COVID situation. Even with the second and third waves, we've done reasonably well in FY 2022 in terms of network expansion.
Okay. Is it fair to assume that, I mean, we've seen a very solid expansion across paint players? Is it fair to assume that the quantum of growth coming from network expansion is much higher than the last three, five years?
Maybe in Q3. We still have to see how the year plays out. Q3, yes. I think I mentioned this earlier, the larger cities did contribute more. Let's see how the year ends out. I hope this is sustained and we are able to, this is not just solely a purely pent-up demand which is being sort of unleashed.
Okay. Lastly, any updates that you can share on the UP plant? I think it was expected to be up by this time, so.
By the UP plant? You mean the UP plant?
Right. Right.
We are on track. As you might have known, the sunset clause for the plant in terms of the subsidies and benefits is January 2023. We'll be operational well before that. We're expecting by middle of the calendar year we should be operational.
Okay. Okay. How fast can you ramp up this plant? It's a fairly large plant, so would you expect some impact of higher overheads?
Yeah, it is. The infrastructure will all be in place because one of the terms of the subsidies is that the infrastructure has to be in place before the commercial production is announced. That gives us a little more impetus in terms of managing the plant project more effectively. Therefore, really all the facilities will be in place on the day of commercial production. It's only a question of balancing manpower from time to time to ramp up.
Okay. Thanks for this, and all the best.
Thanks. Thanks, Ashit.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Yeah. On behalf of Berger Paints, I thank all of you for your participation and your insightful questions. Hopefully, with the third wave of Omicron behind us, we would see better times going ahead, and that's what has been projected by most of the, you know, institutions as regard the GDP growth of more than 7%. Hopefully, things are going to look better going ahead. Let's hope for the best. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.