Good evening, everyone. This is Nitin Gupta from Emkay Global. I would like to welcome all to Berger Paints India's Q1 FY26 result conference call. I thank Berger Paints management for allowing us to host. We have with us today Mr. Abhijit Roy, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Kaushik Ghosh, CFO, Mr. Sujyoti Mukherjee, Vice President, Finance and Accounts, and Mr. Sanathan Sarkar, General Manager, Finance and Accounts. I shall now hand over the call to management for the opening remarks, after which we will proceed with the Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Nitin, and good afternoon to all of you. Let's begin the presentation with a quick look at what is going on again. Can you move the screen? Yeah. Right. A quick look at the quarter one results. You know, we continue to gain market share, market share above 20% within the listed company space. Mid-single-digit volume growth was registered in quarter one. Growth was moderated by heavier than expected monsoon towards the end of May and June. PBDIT margins improved both sequentially and year-on-year in spite of heavy competitive pressures. Automotive segment delivered stronger volume and value growth versus overall performance and strong revenue growth in international operations. We have been consistently outperforming the industry, resulting in market share gain. These are the five-quarter industry growth as per the results published. These are standalone results of various companies added together in the listed space.
As you can see, the growth rate for the industry has been - 0.9%, - 3.3%, - 4%. It went up to - 1.2%. This time, for the first time, it is positive at 0.3% for the existing listed players in the industry, the five players which are there. If you look at our performance against that, we have been at 2.4%, - 0.4%, + 0.4%, + 4.4%, and then again at 2% this time. Consistently above the industry level. As a result of that, we have been gaining market share in spite of intensifying competition, 18.9% to 19.3% to 19.5%, then on to 20.3% and 21.2%. This is the market share as per the standalone results which have been declared by the companies over the years and in this quarter.
However, if you add Birla and assume that they would have gained about 5.5% to 6% share, then too, our market share stands slightly above 20%, and we remain at that level. In fact, you know, we have been gaining market share even with their presence continuously. If you look at the top-line growth, which we registered this quarter, standalone basis, 5.6% volume growth and 2% value growth, the decorative segment delivered mid-single-digit volume growth. The volume-value gap narrowed, driven by improved mix and waning impact of prior price corrections. Strong traction in Roof Kool and Seal, home shield range of products, and wood coatings. Protective and automotive coatings maintained positive volume momentum. GI and powder coatings' performance remained subdued. If you look at the gross margins, it's been very stable and across quarters, in spite of increased competition, it's been hovering in that range of 39%- 41%.
This quarter too, it was 40.1%. Against year-on-year, if you compare against quarter one of last year, which was at 39.3%, it's an improvement. There is a slight dip from the fourth quarter of last year from 41.2% to 40.1%. This dip is explained by adverse mix impact. Due to excessive rains, there was a little bit of a less sale of exterior emulsions, and also the luxury interior emulsion sales were down a bit compared to the fourth quarter of last year. Therefore, a slight dip there that you see. However, you know, against quarter one of last year, there is an improvement from 39.3% to 40.1%. On the operating profit side, however, it's all positive. In fact, it has been steadily gaining ground. From quarter two of last year, if you look at it from 15.8%, it moved up to 16.2%, then further to 16.6%.
In this quarter, it has gone up to 17.4%, which is an improvement over quarter one of last year, which was at 17.2%, and also against quarter four of last year, which was at 16.6%. Margin resilience is driven by stable gross margins and operating leverage from fixed costs, which we have been able to control and reduce, and improved utilization at the Sandila plant. Last time, if you recall, we had initiated the Sandila plant, and we were burdened with the extra load of that plant. We had mentioned that we will improve on this as things go forward. That has helped us to improve our overall profitability, operating profit ratio. In terms of results, if you look at it, 2% is the sales growth rate, PBDIT standalone. PBDIT growth rate is 3.3%. Profit PBIT at 5.1%. PBT before exceptional item is 5.3%.
There is an exceptional item of INR 36.8 crore. This is an unfortunate fire incident which happened in our warehouse near Kolkata in Barasat. There was one other warehouse nearby which caught fire. From there, the fire spread to another warehouse, which was adjacent to us, which was a Hitachi warehouse. The ACs burst into flames, and the flame leapt into our warehouse, and our warehouse got gutted completely. Of course, it's fully insured, and therefore, the insurance process is on. That's an exceptional item of INR 36 crore, which is why you see a negative there in terms of PBT and PAT. Otherwise, without that exceptional item, we would have registered a growth in PAT of around 5% something.
As far as the 3-year, 4-year, 5-year results are concerned, you can see the CAGR 3-year, which is 10.8%, 4.8%, and 10.2% in terms of volume, value, and net sales and PBDIT. If you take 4-year, volume growth is 16.8% CAGR, net sales value growth 15.3%, and in terms of PBDIT growth, it is 22.6%. The 5-year CAGR is 26.3%, 28.2%, and 34.5%. On a consolidated basis as well, it is a similar trend line for 3-year, 4-year, and 5-year. Quite robust 4 and 5-year figures. It is just that the last 3 years, especially the last 2 years, as you are aware, there have been price drops as a result. Plus, there has been a slowdown and the intensification of competition, which has squeezed the volume-value growth a little bit, but still at a reasonable level.
At 3-year levels also, we are in a standalone basis 10%, 4.8%, and 10.2%. Strong performance sustained, led by Anti Dust, Long Life, and Seal-O- Prime. Construction chemicals and waterproofing delivered robust volume-value growth with stable margins. Roof K ool, and Seal further picked up momentum. Wood coatings posted robust volume and value growths. Store footprint expanded by over 300 during the quarter, taking the total count to 1,300+ stores as on date, underscoring continued retail network growth. Tinting machine installations over 2,500+ for the quarter. We are well on course to add 10,000+ more machines for the year. We introduced a product called Kolor Plus in this quarter. It is an interior premium emulsion, a matte finish. We had Easy Clean, which is a clear leader in that segment. That is a little bit of shine, which is there on the wall.
People wanted a matte finish as well. This is a new product category which we have introduced called Kolor Plus, doing reasonably well so far. The momentum is picking up across. We have launched it initially in the South, and now we will be expanding it across the country. Walls that wow, European technology, washable color guard with six years of warranty, premium emulsion in the matte finish category. We, of course, continue to advertise. The new ad has been released called Nothing Shines Like Silk for Silk Glamour with Kareena there. Easy Clean continues to do well in the market across markets. We also introduced another new product called Luxol Metallics. This is a solvent-based metallic range, silver, gold, copper, which is picking up in this country. We thought that, you know, this segment was missing, and we introduced it in this quarter.
It is a lustrous metallic sheen, PU enriched with four years of warranty. We had introduced, if you recall, I had spoken about Anti Dust Kool, which is, you know, earlier we had introduced this. We had introduced last quarter Roof Kool and Seal last year. It did quite well the whole of last year. This year, it continues to do even better. We introduced a new product this year called Tank Kool for the water tanks on the rooftop. All of these three products for the summer months, it is a very useful range of products: Anti Dust Kool for the body, Roof Kool and Seal for the roof, and Tank Kool for the tank. We advertised across newspapers this entire Kool series. As you can see, the house wearing a jacket that you need not worry about the summer heat.
Even in the summer heat, the temperature goes down by 8- 10 degrees centigrade, making you feel much more comfortable. In terms of consolidated sales, top-line value growth at 3.6%. Operating profit is impacted due to margin pressures in Bolix's U.K. operations, essentially because of the project. One of the projects where the cost due to time delay, you know, went out of revenue, and therefore, there was some pressure on the profit there. Joint ventures delivered strong performance in both revenue and profitability. Consolidated results, as you see it, 3.6% value growth, 1.1% operating profit growth. Of course, you know, the two exceptions. One is the Bolix cost overrun, and the second one is the exceptional item, the fire, which pulls down the profit in the PBT and PAT range. BJ and Nepal outperformed within the group, delivering strong revenue growth and margin expansion.
Only one subsidiary, Bolix, reported a stable quarter in revenue. However, muted margins in U.K. operations, as I mentioned, impacted overall Bolix Group profitability. STP and SBL coatings show flattish growth, weighing on overall profitability due to scale challenges. Berger Rock continued to post solid performance. This is our auto refinish joint venture with Rock Paint of Japan in both revenue and profitability growth. The joint venture BNPA, which is Berger Nippon Paint Automotive Coatings, which is focused on the automotive, four-wheeler car, and passenger car and SUV business, delivered robust growth in revenue and profits, driven by higher OEM sales in the automotive segment, along with some good business in some of the new accounts like Kia, etc. Berger Becker joint venture also witnessed a strong turnout post-fire-related losses, aided by improved product mix and margin recovery. How does the business outlook look like for the rest of 2026?
Gradual improvement in demand indicators observed with early momentum in urban markets. A progressing monsoon and easing inflation may support rural sentiment under a supportive policy environment. Market competitiveness to stay elevated. Continued thrust on innovation and brand distinctiveness to navigate short-term challenges. Potential pickup in government infra spending in the latter half of the year could aid growth momentum and broaden economic activity. Currency volatility, ongoing tariff wars, and evolving geopolitical tensions remain key risk factors. Thank you, and I'm stopping here. I'm opening up for questions.
Thanks, Abhijit. We will now start with the Q&A session. I hand over to my colleague, Bhavik Shanklesha, to moderate the Q&A session. Over to you, Bhavik.
Those of you who have questions can raise your hands now. We'll announce your name and unmute your line. Please highlight your full name and the organization you represent. The first question is from the line of Mihir Shah. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. This is Mihir Shah from Nomura.
Hi, Mihir.
Hi, sir. Firstly, congrats on better than peers' volume growth number and continued share gains. On volume growth, I wanted to check, while you've done better, we were expecting a little bit of improvement versus the number that we have seen of 5.5%. We were expecting maybe closer to high single-digit volume growth. On this front, can one expect this growth that has not come to be deferred in the coming quarters? Should we expect a better volume growth in the coming quarters? Any signs or indication that you're seeing of this to continue to improve apart from the sales that we lost this time around?
Typically, Mihir, you know, sales do come back, you know, because the monsoon is unpredictable. It's difficult to guess in India, you know, when it will come and how long it will prevail. It started a bit early this time towards the end of May, which was a surprise across many markets, and it was quite intense in some parts of the country. May and June, as a result of that, you know, normally in paint, it gets postponed. July also was quite heavy. Once it abates, we have always seen that, you know, the sales tend to come back. We would expect that, you know, sales will come back once the monsoon abates.
An indication from your side would be helpful. Fair to say a high single-digit can be expected in coming quarters because of this deferment. Plus, any further improvement that you're seeing in the market or that is giving you confidence that the low volume phase that we have seen is kind of now behind?
If you ask me, my expectation is that once the rain stops, it should go up. If you are asking me whether I'm seeing any indication immediately, so far, we haven't seen anything which indicates that substantial improvement in volume growth momentum will be there. However, once the rain stops, it is expected that the volume momentum should pick up.
Got it. That's very clear. Thank you for that. Second question is on competitive intensity. It seems other players have highlighted that the dealers lost to competition are now coming back. Wanted to know your thoughts on, you know, how this is shaping up for you and any other trend that you are seeing in the marketplace with respect to competition, etc.
Frankly speaking, competition, as I had already always maintained, there will be some share loss, which is likely to happen for all the players, which we have seen happening in the recent past, right? Because any new player who comes in will gain some share, and that will be at the cost of the existing players. Otherwise, we would have got that share. From that perspective, there has been some loss. As I said also last time, for the past few months, we feel that it has become, it's not increasing in terms of intensity. It has stabilized at those levels. I won't say that dealers are coming back, but the initial euphoria is over completely. That's gone. That initially, that curiosity, the enthusiasm that was there, something new, something great is happening. That is completely gone now.
Now is the time when people start realizing that it is not very easy to get additional margin. What was happening was, there was a competitor which was discounting heavily. Then the dealers were selling at a price which was similar to ours in the marketplace initially, and therefore, they were pocketing that differential in their pocket. Once with the network expansion happening heavily and inter-dealer competition increasing, that margin of profit has reduced considerably. As a result of that, there is a little bit of a loss of interest from the dealers. Hence, people might be feeling that some of these dealers might be coming back to the legacy companies with whom they had been dealing in the past.
Once they see that there is no great margin and the movement of the product is nothing great so far, then they feel that, why should we be pushing this so aggressively? That's a normal behavior expected out of any newcomer who enters, initially gets in and then stabilizes at some point. That's what is happening now.
Got it. Thanks for your thoughts, sir. Always very helpful. Lastly, if I can just push in one more on margins. You continue to maintain the margin guidance band that we highlighted. I assume that there's no change out there, right?
No, not at all. You have seen that we have, in fact, always said that it will be operating in the 15%- 17% range. We have been more or less towards the 17%. In fact, in the standalone, we are ahead of 17%. We are around that point only.
Got it. Wishing you all the very best, sir. Thank you very much. That's all from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Avi Mehta. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, you are, Avi. Go ahead.
Sir, hi. This is Avi Mehta here from Macquarie. Sir, I had two questions. You've clearly indicated about the margin, you know, comfort. I just wanted to also check, would given, you know, this demand environment, would we still want to say that we would gun for a low double-digit volume growth in the next year or the demand environment? How do you see that? It would give us some clarity on that expectation, that would be useful. Second, sir, I wanted to check, yes, I do understand the stabilization of competitive trends, but would love to hear your thoughts on how do you see this intensity behaving now that there has been another merger between Akzo and JSW?
Right. No. As far as volume, you know, trend you have seen, you know, that we have been hovering around this 5%, 6%- 7%, 8% range. The whole of last year, we were at around, and on average, around 8%. Last quarter, quarter four of last year also, we were around that same point of 8%- 9% in terms of volume. This quarter has been a little bit lower than that at about 5.5%. We expect that, you know, once the rains are over, to go back to that 7%, 8%, 9% range initially, and maybe even better, you know, as the year progresses. This is something which we feel that should happen. Now, as far as competitive intensity is concerned, I have explained about the first player, which is, you know, who entered, you know, initially.
The second, which you mentioned, JSW plus Akzo, that's, you know, still not, you know, formalized sort of. They have to, first of all, merge, or do something, or if it is standalone, if they operate just like they are doing today, I see no great changes happening in the competitive intensity. Yes, there is some change which is likely to happen, the change in ownership. There might be some amount of advertisement which will go up, some spending increase, possibly. Overall, I don't see any major tangible change. Both these players have been existing in the Indian market for a long time, one which is almost equal to us in a number of years, and the other which has been there for 5, 6, 7 years now. I don't see any significant change in competitive intensity emanating from this change that has happened.
Very clear. Sir, if I may just follow this up from a growth perspective, what you're expecting, sir, are you, I mean, how do we see the demand trends? Wanted to get your thoughts. It's been now three years where growth has been weak. We are still expecting that the relationship with GDP will come back. What do you think went wrong that this situation has arisen in the first place? What would be your thoughts on that?
No, nothing went wrong, Avi. In fact, it's a mistaken notion that.
Oh, okay, sir.
There has been a great demand shrinkage. In fact, till 2022–2023, we had a very good year. In fact, 2023–2024 was reasonably okay. You can say it's not a three-year phenomenon. It's a sort of a 2024–2025 has been an issue, and 2023–2024 second half was an issue. It's about one and a half years where the growth has been lesser. A large part of that reason is that the volume growth has been there, but the value growth has not been there because there was a price drop of almost 5%, 6%, right? When you have the whole of last year, you are fighting against this price drop of 5%, 6%. Then a new player had come in. A new player had come in, and it had taken 3.5%. If you have 5%, 6% of price drop and 3.5% going to the new player, that accounts for 8.5%.
In spite of that, we did register a growth of about 4.5% last year. If you add back this 8.5% to the 4.5%, it would have been 13% growth. That's why I'm saying it is not that the growth rate had come down. It's just that the price drop impacted significantly last year, and the intensification of the competition, who took away about 3.5%, overall impacted everyone to that extent. Some may be 5%, some may be 3%, but overall, there was an impact for every player. Obviously, because when the consumers are going to another brand, that brand otherwise would have, that consumer demand would have come to us otherwise. That much of share loss has happened for everyone, right? Overall industry, if you look at even this quarter, it has grown, the industry, the legacy players have grown by approximately around, say, 0.5%.
Birla would be sitting at around 5.5%- 6%, right? Overall, the industry's growth is 6%, 6.5%, which is not very bad in terms of the value sales. The overall consumer demand itself has been lesser compared for all categories. It is not only paint, any type of consumer category. There has been a bit of a slowdown there. Instead of 6.5%, it would probably have been, under normal circumstances, 8.5%, 9%, 10% maybe. That slowdown of 3%, 4% is there in the consumer sentiment because of inflation, because of other issues, which is progressively improving. That is why we are hopeful that in the second half, there will be a good improvement overall that you see from the current levels.
Got it, sir. Very, very clear, sir. Very clear. Thanks a lot. I have some other questions, but I'll come back in a few. Thank you very much.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you, Avit. Next question is from the line of Tejas Shah. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible?
Yes.
Yeah, thanks. Hi, sir. This is Tejas Shah from Avendus Sp ark. Sir, you broadly touched upon competitive intensity, and you have been very fairly consistent and honest on this.
Can you be a bit louder? I can't hear you.
Sir, am I audible? Hello?
Yeah, now you are.
No, I said that you broadly touched upon competitive intensity, and you have been fairly consistent in that. Just wanted to understand, is there any more nuanced dimension to it in terms of premium, economy, or mass? Is it like varies a lot in terms of the segment of the market?
No, frankly speaking, not so much. It is there more towards the economy, the primers, and lesser towards the luxury or premium luxury category. Mostly the commodity type where first, it's expected as well that where lesser branding strength is required, that is the place where one tends to have some sort of erosion initially. That's where it is getting impacted first. Probably most companies would be reacting in that space also and ensuring that is taken care of. From the perspective of otherwise, there is no other major mix change we would have seen or observed, any particular peculiarity in the way it has been impacted by the competitive intensity.
Perfect, sir. Sir, any regional nuances worth highlighting? Also, has the competitive density become much more aggressive or equal in project business versus the rest?
I can't hear you properly, Tejas.
Hello? Yes, sir. Yeah. No, I was asking, is there any regional nuances worth highlighting, and also any different or any comments to make on project business versus the rest on the same parameter?
No, not really. Project business, nothing which is worth mentioning. Even in the regional nuances, nothing which is extraordinary. It's more or less similar in nature across most regions. Possibly in the south, there has been slightly higher intensity of competition than the rest.
Okay. Sir, last one, if I may, given that most of the paint companies flagged weak demand in June, July due to early onset of monsoon, how would you assess the current inventory levels in the trade channel? Why am I asking this is that do you foresee some pressure on margins, let's say, because there is a lot of stocking up which would have happened because of early monsoon this year?
You know, Tejas, normally in the paint business, when we are selling, we have to collect also. Otherwise, sales get stuck immediately, right? That is why the sales figure on the growth has been less. The channel inventory is fine. I don't see that getting impacted in any significant way. Unless they pay, the channel inventory clears, then they pay, and then we again sell, the cycle doesn't move. There is no great impact there as far as the channel inventory is concerned. Therefore, it is normal business at this point of the year. Normally, it rains. It's a monsoon month. It is expected to rain, and every year, we go through the same situation. I don't see any major change there.
Perfect, sir. As always, very helpful. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Abneesh Roy. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Firstly, congrats on continued faster growth. One is on Bolix. Any timelines you see in terms of recovery? It's a natural market where multiple factors are in play in terms of low growth. Geopolitical tensions keep happening. What will be the long-term strategy in a Bolix kind of a business given the developed market where it is?
Actually, Abneesh, you know, this Bolix business, you know, as we see it, you know, it's on a good wicket as of now, largely because, you know, it is in a domain which is basically meant for energy saving. As you know, this is an insulation business. In Europe and the U.K., the governments are promoting this, you know, in order to save energy. With the geopolitical situation being as is, and with Russian oil not being there for them, which has become expensive for them, gas and, you know, other energy costs, they want to save on the energy cost. It's a category which is actually growing. We had a little bit of an issue in the UK operations with, you know, two of our projects which are there, where there was a delay.
Actually, this delay has been going on for some time now because of other regulatory issues which cropped up there, which is getting tackled, but unusual, unnecessary losses because of the time delay which happened for us. It was not within our control, you know, because the regulatory changes happened suddenly, and we had to, you know, change our entire strategy for these projects. This is just a temporary phenomenon. It will go away. Overall, the business is very healthy, and it is looking quite promising now.
Sure. My second question is back on the Indian Deco market. The market leader has been highlighting one or two things in the last two quarters. One is, of course, a regionalized product strategy, which FMCG companies like Unilever, Nestlé have been doing, winning in many India, kind of a concept. For a few states, you have a specific product packaging targeting that. Similarly, one more thing that they have been doing last maybe two, three quarters is four-year warranty. Have you also responded with a similar kind of strategy? Does this help in overall market dynamics?
India, as you know, has different tastes across different regions, and therefore, product mixes are different in different locations. It is tailored in that direction. We don't have the type of container design or, you know, specific to a region that you are talking about. I don't think that is required as well so much. Yes, you know, it aligns well with the consumers possibly, but, you know, more importantly, the type of products that sell in particular regions are what is of greater importance. Tailoring our products and the pricing for that region becomes very critical. Therefore, we always do that. It is an important way of, you know, and even the advertisements, the way you communicate, everything changes from different states and different regions in India. It's not a single country where you can advertise one thing and communicate, you know.
Everything, the product, the pricing, the promotion, all the P's are, except for the distribution strategy, which is quite similar across regions. Everything else tends to change depending on where you are within the country. That has to be done. If you really want to do well, if you're an all-India player, you will have to keep doing this.
Understood. One more question on the India competition deco. To be fair, you have been the most candid, transparent, and frankly, commenting on competition on national media interview. I think it's a commendable thing. You said a few months back that a new player last three, four months had stagnant sales. Now we are seeing other players, legacy players also talk more confidently. My specific question here is, you said initial euphoria among dealers is completely gone. Specific question here is, how is the initial euphoria in the painter and influencer now versus the first six months? Here also, has it kind of evaporated? 10% extra grammage by the new player. We got in another call today that maybe in some areas it is reversing. Now these are early data points. What are you picking up on the 10% extra grammage?
The 10% extra grammage, there has been a reduction there. I am told that earlier it was across all pack sizes. Now it's there primarily in the 20-liter pack sizes. The one and four-liter possibly has been withdrawn in many markets. That's the news which is coming back to us. There is some rationalization obviously happening in that space. Possibly, as I had always said, this has been tried in the past by a few other companies. It initially gives some result, but then it becomes quite useless in terms of added advantage in the marketplace and sometimes can be at the detriment in terms of sales growth. Therefore, I think possibly it will get slowly phased out. It's an initial entry strategy, as was indicated by them. I think it will get gradually phased out. This is my viewpoint.
Things have to be seen, whether this is true or whether this will sustain. One has to see that. As far as the painter-influencer area is concerned, so far, I don't see any ebbing. Neither was there any great enthusiasm, nor is there an ebb in that. It's still hard work in that segment. For any new entrant or even for existing players, we have to really work hard in this particular area.
Last follow-up question, sir, and I'll end there. This 5.5% market share, say, for the new player, is it largely in the lower end because you who have been there for decades and have done a commendable job, still you are under-indexed in the mid-end premium versus, say, the market leader and versus the brand which got shown? In that context, obviously, entry barriers in mid-end premium are far, far higher. Would you say that this 5.5% market share is heavily over-indexed at the lower end?
It's most likely. I mean, I don't have access to the sales data, but I would guess that that is most likely to happen. Largely because, as you rightly said, in the luxury, premium luxury segment, brand plays a far bigger role there. It is difficult to change a customer in this particular area. However, at the lower end or at the mid-lower end, it is relatively possible with the effort of the influencers to change customer preferences. Therefore, more possibility of the sales getting overly indexed at the initial stage in these categories of products.
Thanks, sir. That's all from me. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you, Abneesh. Next question is from the line of Karthik Chellappa. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much for the opportunity. Karthik here from Indus Capital. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Okay, great. Thank you very much, sir, and congrats on the quarter. Two questions from my side. The first is, with your assessment of the way volume demand is set to recover after the monsoon season and the way mix has been evolving and the annualization of the price cuts, at what point or in how many quarters in your assessment do you think volume and value growth will start to converge?
Karthik, possibly for the next two, three quarters, there will be some differential between the volume and the value growth, largely because of the mix of products which is growing faster than those which are not growing as fast. From that perspective, there are two categories. One is the texture coating, the other is the tile adhesives. For us, those two categories are growing at a faster pace than, say, some of the other categories which are there in paint, right? As a result of that, and these are high volume but lesser value products, doesn't mean that they're less profitable. They have the nature of the product like that, that it is voluminous with lesser value.
In such a scenario, when you look at it, and since we measure it in kg/l, we all combine it together, then it looks like the volume growth is on the higher side compared to the value. That differential is possibly going to remain at about, say, 1.5%- 2%. It will narrow down further. It's already at around 3%- 3.5% now. With the growth rate jumping for regular paint, that might narrow down to 1.5%- 2%. That differential will remain to some extent.
Conservatively speaking, the earliest we can expect, assuming if volume growth recovers to, let's say, 7%- 9%, for us to hit a high single-digit value growth, conservatively speaking, we can probably look at the fourth quarter exit of this year or possibly in early FY2027.
I think if all things go well, we can expect that the fourth quarter should be where we can expect that, as you are saying, or early next first quarter, maybe. We would see if all things go well, if the rains stop and the demand should, as I expect, come back, as it has always happened in the paint industry earlier. I think third and fourth quarter, we should expect that the value growth will come to a reasonably high level, possibly close to the 9%, 10% range.
Excellent. My last question, sir, is if I were to look at the standalone employee expenses in the last five quarters, barring maybe one quarter, that has continued to grow at double digits, what proportion of that would be, let's say, increase in feet on street versus, let's say, normal salary inflation? Is this also one of the ways in which the heightened competitive intensity is manifesting, whether in terms of retention of staff or higher payouts, etc.?
It has been, you know, we have added genuinely, you know, feet on the street as well. Since the, you know, as you see, 8%- 10% has been historically there with us. It's not as if something different is happening now. The salary increases in India, you know, the inflation has always been in excess of 5%- 6%. The increases have always been in the range of 8%- 9% on an average that, you know, we have given. That's something which will always happen irrespective of what is the situation like, unless it's a sort of a disaster. As an employee cost to sales, it tends to move up a bit, you know, under the current circumstances when the value growth is not coming. There's been no tangible massive increase in as far as the employee cost is concerned.
The other part is, yes, you know, we have increased the feet on the street, not only, you know, just because the competition has come in, but because we feel there is an opportunity for us in certain markets, like the urban markets, where we have invested. Now that investment immediately doesn't give result. It takes a little bit of time. We are very certain that, you know, from the fourth quarter of this year, we will see, you know, quite an impact as far as the urban performance is concerned for us.
Excellent. Sir, one data point, if you can share, for this quarter, by how much did the A&P expenses grow year on year? Would you be able to give some color?
There has been an increase. Normal increase would have been possibly around 4%- 5% maybe on the A&P expense growth, similar to our sales growth, but a little bit higher, which is why the expenses would have grown at that level only. Not significant, I would say.
Okay. Excellent. That's all from my side, sir. Wish you and the team all the very best for the remaining quarters.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pratik Gothi. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Hi.
Hi. Yeah, this is Pratik Gothi from HSBC. I have a couple of questions. Question one, the luxury segment of emulsions, have we seen slow growth in that particular segment over the last few years? If yes, do you think there's some downtrending in that segment from, say, luxury to premium? Is there some other trend at play there? I would like it if you throw some light, please.
As far as the luxury segment is concerned, the luxury interior segment has seen, for us, some slowdown. The luxury exterior continues to do reasonably well, so there is no fixed trend which says that luxury is moving down, shifting towards premium. As far as we are concerned, the luxury exterior continues to do quite well. The luxury interior, we are not a very strong player there, but we have pockets of strength. In those pockets, we were a bit impacted by the excessive rains which happened. Maybe some people postponed or just changed it. I don't know what the reason is, but there was a little bit of a slowdown in those locations. Though interior shouldn't have been impacted, exterior should have been impacted more in rains, but we see the other way around, the interior getting impacted a bit more. That is what has happened.
I don't see any secular trend of downshift happening from luxury to premium category.
Great. Thank you. My other question is on the industrial business. Performance has been mixed, so to speak. Is that the right way to put it?
Yes.
Two segments have been good?
You can say that some of the categories like the automotive did much better. On the back of slightly lower basis, they did good growth. Both the two-wheeler, the commercial vehicles in which we are present, and even in the joint venture which we are there with Nippon, that did very well, in fact. Overall, the auto segment did better. Auto refinish grew very well. The protective coatings' volume growth was quite good. We had to cut prices a little bit because the profitability was reasonably good and the competitive intensity was high. Therefore, the value growth was not as high as the volume growth. The powder and the general industries categories, those two had some issue with the demand itself. Primarily, the fan industry suffered a bit, and hence, the GI and the powder, both of these had very muted growth.
Okay, thanks. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Suprit Patel. Please go ahead.
Yes, good evening. Am I audible?
Yeah, if you can be a bit louder, it will help.
Yes, am I audible now?
Yes.
Yes. Okay. I'm a shareholder of your company. My question is, given the exceptional loss of INR 36,000 crore from the warehouse fire and the impact of the early monsoon on volume growth, how is Berger Paints strengthening its operational this thing? Is there a new risk of mitigation frameworks or supply chain redundancies building to safeguard future profitability?
Patel, first of all, it is INR 36 crore, not INR 3,600 crore.
Sorry. Correct. You're right.
Stock inventory which we had in the warehouse, it was an unfortunate incident which was beyond our control because the fire didn't catch within our warehouse. It actually happened quite some distance away, but that fire engulfed some other fire. We were about three warehouses away from it, but then all the four warehouses got burned down. Nothing that you could have done from your side. We take extreme precaution across our warehouses. We are very well equipped to handle fire. If it had happened within our unit, possibly we would have, and unfortunately, it was a Saturday evening when all the employees had gone home. There was no one to do the firefighting in case. If there were some people there, we would have possibly tackled it even better. It would have been risky that way. The fire engines came in.
Even they were finding it difficult to control the fire. Therefore, beyond control, actually. Nothing that we could have done. We do take extreme care as far as our, you know, because we are a category where this is of extreme importance. Rest assured that we have no problem there.
Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Right.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jayk umar Doshi. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Abhijit sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I've got three questions. The first one is, you know, competitive intensity, which you've largely answered. Very specifically, I would like to know whether is there any change in trade schemes, working capital, credit period that, you know, the new entrant is offering to its dealer network versus what it used to be six months back?
No, they have been more or less, you know, they came in with a dealer price list which was 5% lesser in terms of pricing, you know, and schemes which were slightly higher loaded than the industry in general. I see no major changes. The schemes have become more complicated. It was initially an in-build scheme which was being given. Most of it used to be 80%, 90% loaded onto all dealers, you know, in a similar way. Now it's like any other player. It's become very, you know, challenging or complicated, I would say. That's the only change which has happened. I see no other change which has, you know, happened from what it was there in the past.
No additional working capital credit period support in case of.
Not that I am aware of, which makes nothing has come back which is of significance, I would say.
Is there any increase in competitive response from incumbents this year, especially any rebates or sort of schemes on Pati or at Economy and/or in the projects business? I just want to know if the new entrant sort of stabilizes at 5% or 6% kind of market share, would you guys actually now take an opportunity to regain some of the lost share?
Actually, if you ask me, it is better to remain at a stable price level instead of trying to do something, because these things have their own way of stabilizing. We have seen this happening earlier with another player who had entered in the south, if you recall.
I'm aware.
They did exactly the same thing. When you start withdrawing the benefits to the dealers and the painters, the sales start coming down. You just have to remain steady and keep growing. There is no point trying to, because it destabilizes the rates, and the dealers get worked up. There are a lot of disturbances in the network. That is something which is avoidable. We follow our own policies and carry on irrespective of what others are doing or not doing. I don't see that we would be actually trying to do something. In fact, the gains should come back. The dealers will realize that if the momentum is not there in terms of movement of the product, and if he's not making additional margin from the newcomer, then why should he try to push that product? Why should he, therefore, continue in a bigger way with the new incumbent?
He tends to swing back slowly towards the existing players. That's what has happened in the past and is more likely to happen in the future as well.
Perfect. Very helpful. Second question is on, you know, we are not hearing a lot about waterproofing, construction chemicals on, you know, generally paints earnings calls these days. Is it that, you know, the low-hanging fruit or the initial market share gains from traditional waterproofing players have come through and now, you know, you're seeing broadly similar growth in those categories as you're seeing in decorative paints? Is it only because of competitive, you know, focus on decorative paints, you know, it is not discussed anymore?
Frankly speaking, as far as we are concerned, we see a much faster growth in the construction chemicals waterproofing still continuing for us and is likely to continue in the next three, four years. It is likely to continue at a faster clip. As far as we are concerned, this category is growing at a faster pace.
Last bookkeeping question on the market share slide where you've shown you've just crossed 21% in 1 Q FY20 26. In numerator, is your entire India business decorative plus industrial both combined?
That's right.
The denominator would comprise of, you know, how many players you mentioned listed?
Five players.
I assume you're not included.
Asian , Kansai , Akzo Nobel , Indigo, and Berger . These are the five players which are there. The denominator, this is the total standalone value of all of these players. Our value includes two companies, you know, in addition to the standalone figures, which is STP, which operates out of India, and SBL Coatings, which is Saboo Coating, which also operates within India only. These are the two companies which add up. If you add up these standalone figures with these two companies, that's where our market share is.
Would the trend be broadly similar for decorative paints also if you were to do the same exercise for decorative paints, same set of companies?
Yes, more or less. It will vary maybe 0.5%, 0.6% here and there, but the trend will be very similar.
That's it from my side. Thank you very much and good luck.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Amit Purohit. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Yes, you are, Amit.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
It's just on the growth trends. One, I wanted to understand. You clearly highlighted that you are not doing anything much. We are waiting for the things to happen, which is a natural progress that as the dealers realize that margins are less and velocity is low, they will come back. I just want to understand within the incumbents, when they look at growth trends, this quarter has been slightly, we've seen the leader doing relatively better versus its own performance and our gap kind of narrowing. Would it be more because of the regional or would it be more because of the product mix that would have led to this slight gap in reducing? I know it's a quarter thing, just wanted to have your thoughts.
It's difficult to say for me on this type of a situation. We have continued to do what we can do. What the leader does or what the gaps are, sometimes they do well, sometimes they do a little worse than us. It's always difficult for us to justify the gap increasing or decreasing, right? Sometimes there are extraordinary events happening for them as well, which can create gaps which are higher. Sometimes it is not so, and it is normalized business, and then the gaps get narrower. Nothing that I can comment on. It is not something which is within our control as well. We keep doing what we can do best, and I hope that we are ahead of the pack as far as the industry growth is concerned. Wherever it is, we should be ahead of that by at least 2%, 2.5%, and that's what we maintain.
Right. Sir, second question on the industry growth itself. You clearly highlighted that as the rain season gets over, we expect the growth to come back. I'm just trying to think about it on a YOY basis. Rains remain, right, in July, and since there is still, there is a demand that is muted. Would that be a point of concern as we go ahead, or you think the base effects will probably help us and hence the growth will improve? I understand Q2 onwards, the base for our industry growth started to become much more muted.
Yeah, the base effect will help definitely in the third and the fourth quarter. Overall, that should be a positive for most of the players. As far as the rains are concerned, it has been relatively heavier, and we expect that normally when it rains much more heavier than normal, the damages also to the wall are much higher. The demand tends to pick up after the rains abate. We expect that there will be a good movement towards the second half of the year, coupled with relatively lower bases. The growth rates should pick up in the second half.
Thank you for the clarification. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. We consider that as the last question for the day. I hand over the call to management for closing remarks.
Thank you all for coming and taking time out and attending to this meet. Wish you all the best. Thank you very much.
Thank you on behalf of Emkay Global. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us.