Q2 21/22

Oct 22, 2021

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Canfin Homes Limited Q2 FY 'twenty two Conference Call hosted by Investec Capital Services. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nadeesh Jain. Thank you and over to you, sir. Thank you, Aman. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Q2 FY 2022 earnings conference call of Cansim Homes Limited To discuss the financial performance of Canfin Homes and to address your queries, we have with us today Mr. Praveen Krawski, MD and CEO, Canfin Homes Ms. Samila, Business Head and Mr. Prashant Joshi Joshi, CFO of Canton Homes Limited. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Kauske for his opening comments. Over to you, sir. Good afternoon to all the investors. Welcome to quarter 2 earnings With me, I have Amitabh Seshadri, who is our Deputy Managing Director. I think Shailesh And Ghosh, I also have my President's Strategy Head, Prashanth Sinha. So quarter 2 was basically Pretty good for us as expected a few months back. In terms of disbursement, we did all time high. And I had mentioned a few months back that quarter 4 was the best ever quarter in terms of disbursement And quarter 2, we did 10% more than quarter 4. If I have to compare on a YOY basis, we increased the disbursement by 153%. Loan book in last 7 quarters was the highest at 13.2%. See, most of the things I think we should compare with sequential note with last quarter, last to last quarter, but not on a YOY. For the simple reason, last year, we had taken a call and we had changed our pricing strategy wherein we had to drop rates to compete with the big banks and HFCs. And therefore, I had indicated earlier that our margins would come down, both NIM and spread would come down. And rightly so, no, we changed our trading strategy. We dropped rates for two reasons: 1, to generate new business and also 2, Protect the book because we saw flight ops book from us to banks. And therefore, we wanted to stop that and therefore, we devised this strategy where we had dropped the rates. That lasted till about quarter 4. And after that, we have increased price, twice. So in last 6 months, we have increased rate twice. And in spite of competition from some of the big banks and HFC, we're able to All time high disbursements. So not only on disbursement, even on book we have grown. In terms of NPA, we have reduced from 0.9% to 0.78%. What happens generally is that when the when there is an interest rate A scenario which is downwards. First, margins will contract, followed by contraction in yield. So now we have seen reversal in trend that if you see if I have to compare margins this quarter with last quarter, NIM, which was 3.31, has now increased to 3.4, higher by 9 bps and Spread from 2.41 to 2.42, it's almost flat. So since we have increased rates in last 6 months twice, So margins will improve, which is also see increase in the yields, which means our revenue and PAT, both you will see growth. If I have to compare quarter 2, if I have to compare on a Y o Y basis, both revenue as well as FAS was low. It degrew. If I have to compare H1, H1 there was growth of about 5% impact. If I have to compare Y o Y quarter, There was a deal out. And the reason for that is because we had to retrace our portfolio, margins contracted, which was followed by And therefore, when I compare now, you will see a degrowth. So I think that is the context. So now there is margin reversal. We are seeing increase in both spread and NIM. We have increased rates. We are seeing good disbursement, good demand in the market. So H2 will be better than H1. So in H1, quarter 1 was not that great because of COVID 2nd wave. But quarter 2, we did really well, and This trend will continue for next couple of quarters both in terms of I'm talking about this year. In terms of trend continuation, this will continue for next few years. So there'll be good growth in disbursements and book. In terms of revenue and profit, There will be definitely improvement from now on. And I think very soon, we'll be start showing good growth there also. On a both on absolute terms and also in terms of percentage growth. In terms of asset quality, we were able to manage it pretty well and we brought it down. Our peak was 0.91. I think now it is 0.78. Even during COVID period, even after COVID, we've been able to manage Ara said quality pretty well. In terms of our restructured pool, totally, we have restructured 2.73 percent of the book, which is approximately about INR645 crores. Now this number, Maybe it may look slightly higher. I want to draw your attention to our Murat scenario where We had Murat of 28% when the entire industry was talking about 9% to 10%. So typically, Canfin would always get a Higher requests, whether it is more at our restructuring, I think given the pedigree. And therefore, even we had 28% moratorium, I think it didn't impact Our asset quality at all, of course, we did focus more on portfolio quality and covering all the customers in terms of Getting their understanding, helping them to choose the option and stuff like that, that really helped. So in spite of 28% moratorium, We didn't see increase in NPA, whereas you would have seen in the market, most So the other players know where NPS did go up. So this 2.73% restructure pool, we have done our own calculation. And based on And based on our estimate, we feel that maximum of 7% to 8% would flow over a period of time because this won't happen in 1 Quarter or 2 quarters, over a period of time, 7% to 8% of INR645 crores would No, become NDA. So which comes to approximate about 50 odd crores. Now in last 15 to 18 months' time because of COVID both first wave and second wave, we had literally All our legal initiation. So now we are pretty active with respect to onetime settlement And also Sarfeci. So now we plan to recover about INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores in next 3 to 4 quarters. So eventually, when you look at net increase in NTA, today, we're at 0.78%. And if you have to look at net increase, I think we would be able to maintain NCA less than 1% for next few quarters to come. I think that is the whole context on restructuring. You've seen most of our customers, if you look at the profile mix we have, Now at a portfolio level, we have about 74% salaried and 26% self employed non professional. But the recent sourcing after COVID started, we've seen that there is shift more towards salary and now salary is close to about 82% and S and P is 18%. So we've seen product mix, geography mix, we've seen the vintage Of each account on book and we've done our own estimate and we feel that maximum 7% to 8% would become NPA. We are hopeful that it will be much lower than that, but to estimate, I think you have taken this percentage of 7% to 8%. In terms of liability mix, I think we were able to bring down our cost and our incremental cost now is 4.77%. And at portfolio level, it is I think 5.57%. So we're able to bring down cost. Only thing is it might take some time for us to see growth in terms of revenue and PAD because when the rate comes down, obviously, The yield, which was earlier at about 10% has now come down to 7.99%. Right? So if you have to look at incremental Credit is 2.68%. Total portfolio, it is 2.42%. While if you look at quarter on quarter, I think this spread will keep on improving going This is also 8. And we also do a reset. When we do reset, since we have increased rates in price in last 6 months, We'll get approximately about INR1250 crores every month for resale. So all those loans will be repriced at a higher rate, which means the yield from this level also will go up, which will also ensure that in terms of absolute amount, both revenue and PAT would be higher. In terms of library mix, I think our Okay. So to ensure that we need to focus on source of funds which could give us the most effective and lower cost. And therefore, our bank proportion was about 47% and NHP 25% The NHB rates are much lower and not much of change in terms of deposit. And in terms of market, I think some of the entities mature. And CD, as I had mentioned earlier, CD Commercial Paper, we take CD only for Leveraging cost not for funding purpose. So if you have bank approved limits or OD or CC limits unutilized, only against that we take CP. So CP is more of a cost leverage instrument that we look at and not for funding. So to this extent, there was slight change in the funding basket. I think the rest of the things you would have probably I want to open the floor for Q and A. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue Our first question is from the line of Nitin Jain from Fairview Investment Advisory. Please go ahead. Yes. Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity. So I have a couple of questions. So recently, LIC Housing Finance, they tied up with India Postpayments Bank like for distribution of their products. So is Canfin also looking for any similar tie up? That is question 1. And secondly, In the last couple of quarters, there has been no network expansion for Canfin. I see the 200 branches pretty much maintained for last few quarters. So what is the expansion plan in terms of the network for this fiscal? And the third question is, Like recently on 21 September, Canfin's Twitter handle had tweeted that home loans starting from 6.75%. So is that correct? Or what is the recent what is the latest RAC rate? If you can clarify that as well. So this is it. Sure. Okay. Okay. So at this point in time, we don't envisage any tie up for business. On branch expansion, of course, last We couldn't open too many branches because of COVID. Otherwise, we have planned to open 12 to 15 branches every year. And not only that, we're also working on improving branch productivity. We are closing some of our nonprofitable branches and opening those With respect to the pricing, 6.75%, I think that is it, but that Hardly about 0.1 percent, 15 percent of our entire sourcing because when we say starting from 6 That would be for we would have certain filters like Bureau Cat and stuff like that. So if you look at the proportion of Loans, what we do at this rate, probably it will be less than 0.25%. But yes, we do have an And where we start, in fact, if you look at the market, most of them, they would mention a 6.5% or 6.6%, you must have seen. But these rates are with certain requirements with respect to a bureaucrat, let's say, some someone would say 800 plus bureau card should be there and it should be for a Cat A developer, maybe up to a project and stuff like that. So number of cases which one would source under These categories would be hardly anything. Okay. So just a clarification, in terms of the RAC rate Or the rate at which we are repricing now, what would that rate be? So now we of course, we have based on risk based I think the average has come to about 7.75%. So now average at what we raised is about 7.75. The next question is from the line of Mananti Jodiwala from ICICI Prudential AMC. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. One question. I wanted to understand the quality of the borrowers that you are onboarding at 670 versus the rate that you mentioned at 775. So is there a difference in the type or quality of the borrower at this rate? In terms of Past repayment track record, yes, there is a difference because somebody who would be eligible for 6 points earned 5% now Typically, be, A, earning high, B, would have a lot of loans and bureau history, and therefore, the bureau score would be more than 800. So, Adabir, in terms of repayment capacity and intention, there is no difference. In terms of And now past record of loans and bureau score, there is a difference. Right. Fair enough. Just to now an extension to that question, Last time, Yuan mentioned that around 10% of your book was priced around sub-seven percent, which is generated around Q3 of last year. And that you have annual reset to this book, which will get repriced to say $7.75 or so, which is the minimum rate Now, so do you foresee these borrowers to react differently when they opt for BT outs or will you be able to retain that? So we have seen the BT trend also because we have increased rates twice in last 6 months and we have seen the trend. So our BT outflow is now back to normal. So we saw book depletion in quarter 3 quarter 4 of last year and also in quarter 2, but now in last two quarters in spite of rate increase, in spite of repricing, No, BT out is normal. So there is it's a normal reaction. However, last year, we saw abnormal reaction. Because we saw normal reaction, we had to change the strategy in terms of pricing. And I had mentioned then also this change in pricing strategy is short term in nature. I think now that field is over. Now we've increased rates twice. And we feel that in another quarter or so, Maybe a quarter or 2, I think rates would start moving up. Because basically, so the sub-seven percent borrowers should be expected To be retained at around 7.25%, 8% is where is it? Yes, because today our portfolio yield is about 7.99%. So we would have So typically, we've seen that if the differential is about 25 to 50 bps, Customer tends to stay back and not switch. So earlier, our yields were about 10. Now it is So we've come back to about 9, maybe it'll intercept about 8 points to 8 points, 6 points in next few quarters. So we don't see too much of a challenge in terms of book retention. Thank you. That's all the message. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijit Thirbewal from Motorola Luvsmann. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking the question and firstly Congratulations on delivering such good loan growth during the quarter. Great. All the correction which is there from the larger banks and the other agencies. So two questions here. One is, I mean, like you suggested that you have increased rates twice in the last 2 months and that loans could potentially get repriced at 7.75%. So maybe an extension to the question that was asked by Manan. What I'm trying to understand here is, I mean, how often are the loans repriced? And today, if you are lending to someone at a particular rate, I mean, for how long will those rates remain fixed? And subsequently, at what tenure it will get repriced? That's one. And the other thing is also why you suggested 7.75%. What is your prime lending rate now? Like you suggested, you've been increasing the rates over the last 6 months. So what was it when we were there around March and how has it been increased over the last two quarters, if you can help us understand that. And sir, the last question that I had was On your CP book, while I mean, in this earnings call as well as in the last Q and A call, you have highlighted that you are using CP predominantly for leveraging costs and not for funding purposes. But today, about 19% of your borrowing mix is in CPs. And when we look at, I mean, some of your peers, I mean, be it the larger peers or the smaller HFCs, no one is really using CPEs, I mean, predominantly as part of their borrowing mix. So when rates actually kind of start to harden and which I am kind of sure is beginning to harden now. I mean, don't you think it can, I mean, impact you very adversely given that Close to 20% of your liabilities is in CPs? Okay. Now in terms of rates, In March, our RAC rate was 6.97%. So till quarter 4, we had actually dropped the rates. Now from April, what we have is we have an offer. So when we say even now, for example, our rates are starting from 6.75. In March, 6.75%, probably 30% of the sourcing would have come at that rate, whereas now we get less than 1%. Right. So now it's an offer, but then it was a drag rate. So which means most of the portfolio which got built in quarter 3 and quarter 4 was at a much lower yield, Whereas now I mentioned you, it's about 7.75. So since we have increased rates now And in fact, if you look at any bank for this matter, I think whatever rate they say is basically an offer. And there are a lot of conditions with respect to bureau and etcetera, etcetera would be there. And therefore, Increase in rates, now we've increased by about what, 6.75 to now about 7.75, about 100 bps in terms of average yield. Even when we offered 6.75, our yield was about over 7% because not all the loans would come at 6.75. And therefore, today average is 7.75%. Now this is number 1. Number 2, when we talk about this liability mix, See, we have to raise NCDs this year, and we will raise. And we will raise this year, we will raise up to INVS 750 crores because that is mandatory. Unfortunately, now the rates are very competitive. Last year, we didn't raise for two reasons. One, it was not mandatory last year And the book to rates are higher. So now we are able to raise NCD at a very fine rate comparatively, and therefore, we will raise NCD. Suppose if CP becomes expensive, see, today we're able to raise funds from bank at about 5.5% And we have raised at 5% also. And when we have increased our allocation from NHP, our rates should be much finer. So today, we are using CP because we are seeing opportunity there. So basically, CP used to be earlier at 12%, now it is 19%. It's only because we had to retire some of the NCDs. And now in this quarter, we will raise NCDs. This quarter, we plan to raise about INR 500 crores. This whole year, we are supposed to raise about INR 750 crores, so we will raise because that is mandatory. Any incremental borrowing, 25% will have to come by way of NCDs, right. So if CP rates goes No, we will change our mix and we will either take from NHP or from bank. So I think that's not an issue at all. Overall, CP rates will go up only if overall there is increase in interest rate. Then you would see that impact across. Then we will also try and increase that yield so that we can protect the margins. Right, sir. And so maybe as a last follow-up here, at what duration or at what frequency are the loans repriced for the customers? In other words, If someone takes a loan from you at, let's say, 6.7%, for how long will that rate be locked in for that customer? And secondly, I mean, sometimes that you said that I mean and that is also evident in the numbers that you report. The pressure on VITI AO has eased significantly and because of which your loan book run off that used what seems to be there, Let's say a couple of quarters, Bharat, has it indeed be much lower, I would say, in this quarter. So what has really changed? Banks continue to offer Interest rates had those low interest rates what we did in the past. So what has kind of changed that irrationality to More rational behavior today from the customers. Okay. Reset happens once in a year. And beyond that, it depends on the market conditions. As of now, no interest rate impact even at the last meeting report was unchanged. So it depends on the market condition. Otherwise, it happens once in a year. Now, BT out was very high last year. So what happened was we actually repriced. We reduced the cost. We repriced the portfolio so that we can return our customers. And therefore, whatever you mentioned now from illogical, I think there's now more to A bit of more logical stuff. So now the differential is not much, but we always ensure that we maintain whatever is the required margin. So going forward, if the interest rate goes up, then we have scope to increase yields. So we will manage this like this going forward as well. And not only this, we had set up a core team more than 1 year back so that which only handles No customers who want to switch or customers who wants to move out. So we have a retention team, strong retention team. And depending on the customer need, if customer is looking for a switch, we do switch. If customer is looking for a slightly Higher loan, maybe we are top of the extent top of loans or personal loans. So we have a dedicated team, which is supported by all the branches. So our retention strategy, our pricing strategy and our focus on growing disbursement and book has changed this entire scenario. Got it. Thank you so much. It's very useful and wish you and your team the very best. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harish Shah from R&T Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you. I just have two questions. First is on the growth. So since this quarter has been very healthy for you as a company, How do we see this growth pan out in terms of disbursements for the next two quarters and then eventually into FY 2023? H2 will be far better than H1. So So H2 will be better than Q2 Is the question? H2 will be better than H1. And Q3 and Q4, No, if you take both the quarters average, it will be far better than Q2. Okay. And secondly, on OTR. So you had also mentioned that Conservatively, on a base case, you're not a 7% to 8% of the OTR will slip eventually. That is around 50 crores. But then what was the rationale behind writing back our buffer provisioning of INR 13 crores? Because we could have used that provisioning whenever This OTR book starts to slip. So do we also see eventually even if you spread out your OTR slippage book, Still, you will have to do that incremental provisioning going forward. So what was the rationale behind the writing back the provisioning in this quarter? We have provided INVS65 crores and we expect only INVS50 crores to skip And just to over a period of time in next few quarters. So still you feel that there will be again write back of provisioning Eventually, yes, eventually, yes, because we have provided INVS 65 crores And we are expecting INR 50 crores to slip and this INR 50 crores will not slip in 1 or 2 quarters. This will be over a period of time. And while we say this, we also have plan to Recover from losses. So we plan to recover slightly more than what would slip into NTA. So net net, we always want to maintain NPA less than 1%. So our recovery in next few quarters is going to be about INR55 to INR60 crores. That's the plan. And what would slip is 50%. Apart from these 2, what could actually happen is that there could be some incremental slippages So that we will manage through the normal recovery. That is the logic for us to write back because we've already provided INR 65 crores. So just a follow-up on that. So is there a possibility then since you are already operating at such a high PCR, you have already provided So on a total company level for next 2 or 3 quarters or even a little bit slightly longer, let's say 4 to 6 quarters, we will see a very compressed credit cost as a whole? See, this INR 65 crores, what we have provided is for restructured loans, that is not part of the PCI. Right. With respect to that, we have still increased our coverage to 40% now. Yes, that was actually the question. So that's what I'm Since you have already provided INR 65 plus you are already operating at such a healthy We don't expect any great cost increase. Sorry, can you repeat? We don't expect any increase in credit costs. Okay. So credit costs will remain at already compressed level only for the next two quarters, At least it means in the medium term? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Amit Premchandani from UTI. Please go ahead. Sir, Just wanted to have your views on what can be the steady state NHP borrowing mix Once you move into 2x to 3x of the current deal. If you've seen market in last For 2 years, I think there has been a roller coaster for HFC as a industry. It's very unfortunate that some companies had to slow down disbursement, some companies had To close down and stuff like that. So if we look at the current trend, our allocation probably should slightly increase. At this point in time, it's about INV2,000 crores. So this is every year, every year INV2,000 crores. So in next couple of years, we feel that this amount could increase by about 25% at least. And what is the duration of this? Mora, it's a long term 15 years. As rates of? Sorry, come again? Rate will be very, very fine. That will be the lowest actually. It will be sub-five. And it will be fixed initially, right? Rates? Yes. Rates are not fixed. Rates are not fixed, but when so we have a small portion which is fixed. Otherwise, they have a variable rate. Depending on the situation, we also either increase or decrease the rate. And that is linked to what, this variable rate? Yes. It is linked to their own reference rate, which broadly is linked to the RBI report. Sure. And sir, why do you think canceling home has the ability to predict short term rates And hence you have kept CPs at such a high share of the overall 95, When none of the other mortgage lenders seem to have the ability? So I think the first basic difference is that I'll tell you what we do and whatever I don't say probably would be applicable to others. See, we don't use CP for funding. We think CP is very Because CP is short term and we don't want to use that for lending. And therefore, since we are we enjoy huge liquidity And we have the low cost benefit, and therefore, we use CP only for cost leverage, Right. You will see CP share going up. It's only because we had to retire some of the NCDs. So the minute we raise NCDs now, you'll see that mix changing. It looks high because NCD has come down. So once we hit NCD or funded, of course, you'll see that mix. And CP, we will use only if we have Back up, which I already mentioned. Since we're higher liquidity, we use that to leverage and keep our cost low. And what is the liquidity, sir, in terms of as a percentage of AUMs? What is the We always We always keep about the year's liquidity. Year of seasonal obligation. A total obligation net of that. And what would be that number now? It will be about INV4,000 crores. And that will be consistent in the sense every that is a policy that every year you keep 1% every 1 year. With the increase in disbursement, our CP percentage might come down because now we are able to source So from banks at a much finer rate because we also have to manage an ALM and therefore And we are able to get source at a much finer rate from banks. So this proportion would come down because of two reasons. 1, Bank could slightly go up. Number 2, Yinti would go up. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from me. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bunty Chowna from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. One data point if you can share because I missed the initial part, That is incremental cost of funds and incremental yields. And secondly, continuing with the previous query from the Amit, you said that now these we will be raising NCDs. So these CPs will be shared or replaced by NCDs. So can we say that the cost of funds could increase or could rise And that could be equivalent to already price hike we have taken last 2 to 3 months. So that That could have not much impact on the margin pressure. That's it from my side, sir. Yes. So incremental cost is 4.77, incremental yield is 7.45, incremental spread is 2.68. So the portfolio is 2.42, incremental spread is 2.6. So we will not change the CP number. Yes, there could be a slight up or down depending on the maturity. What will happen is now NCD once it stores In CTV, the mix will change. So it's not that CP will go down and NCD will go up. NCD will go up because NCD goes up, CP which is A slightly lower than what it is today. And CP will operate within the limit. And now there could be ups and downs depending on the maturity. Suppose if CPs have matured, then the percentage could look lower. And once we receive that, it will look at the right level. And in terms of margins, we'll be able to maintain now. We've seen a reversal because we have increased rates twice in this financial year. So you will see improvement further in our growth stream as well as substrate. Okay, sir. And sir, lastly from my side, restructured assets, as you rightly said, it's 2.7%. So can you share the profile of this restructured book? Is it equivalent to same which you have shared for the overall loan mix, 74% kind of thing? Or is it different, if you can share that data? So I think by and large, whether I take JAVR fee, whether I take profile within Salaried or different segments within self employed, I think Not much of a difference. Yes, but if I have to compare between salaried and self employed, self employed is slightly higher compared to salaried. Otherwise, there is no change in the big sur profile. Okay. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Surekha from the S. P. Mitchell Fund. Please go ahead. Sir, I just want to understand the bank's behavior because I know you've been trying to answer these questions in the past. Last quarter Q3 of last year, banks seem to be taking away a lot of your customers and you had to drop rates. Now though you have increased sales, you seem to be able to hold on to your customers better. Was it 1, 2 competitor banks in your area that caused this kind of disturbance who have now stepped back? Or is there anything else that we are missing, sir? Hi, very good question. This is not because of any bank per se. It is because of COVID. It is because of pandemic. So what happened because of pandemic and because of there was national lockdown and there was a challenge in terms of mobility of people And because of this, it impacted economic activity and great uptake in all the segments and products. And therefore, it was difficult now for any entity to do business, whether it is bank, be Private or BSU or NBFC or HFC. So therefore, BT was one segment which was Chosen for growing the book. And since there was an arbitrage opportunity available because of the differential yield between banks and NBFCs and HFCs. So the focus was more on BT. BT, which generally comprises 30% of the total market In terms of incremental business, now it's short up to 40 plus percent during COVID because for most of the banks Maybe all the banks, other industry, operate and SMB uptake was at its low. And Retail, the risk was very high in unsecured. And therefore, the whole focus was insecured. And again, insecured, the Yuzhikin was not yet because of its share ticket size and long term in nature. And therefore, there was heightened activity in mortgage, which saw flighters booked from HFCs and NBFCs to banks Because since this happened, a lot of HFCs had to rethink on this strategy. We also did the same thing. But our strategy was short term, which is why we had to change the trading strategy. And now that is almost 4, which is why now we don't see that kind of competition from banks because economic activity has slowed. And now Question from banks because economic activity has slowed and now there is good uptake in SME. In corporate, it's far better compared to what it was maybe a year back. May not be back to 20% retention, but far, far better than what it was last year. And therefore, now mortgage backed Another good sign of normalization, which we appreciate. Sir, just one last question for me. Have you considered products like Loan sell downs or securitization to kind of manage your ALM, is that market still alive? Or that used to be there quite active some time ago. So I just wanted to know when you can explore that. Yes, it's very much delayed, but we don't want to sell our portfolio. And we don't intend to buy the portfolio ourselves because we do not know the quality of the portfolio and we don't plan to do it in near future. However, since the market is very robust, we want to grow our book, and that is what we are focused on. But the market used to react to even now. Thank you, sir, and good luck. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Hojer from Mira Assets. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. I have a couple of questions. 1 on the yield side, you mentioned on the incremental side, the yield is 7.45%. So going ahead, what is the sort of you believe that this spread of 2.42%, is it bottoming out and going ahead? As you mentioned, marginal spreads are at 2.68. Do you see spreads going up at least in the next couple of quarters? Can you just elaborate a bit more on what is the outlook on spreads? So both spread and NIM will go up. We'll go because we have now increased rates. So first, we will see expansion in margins and then you'll see revenue going up. So because when interest rate falls, the first margin is in contract and then yields in contract. Now we have increased the price. The margins will expand. It started from last quarter. So in the next few quarters, we'll see both margins, both spread and the living Okay. Sure. And just the liquidity on balance sheet right now, I mean quarter on quarter, it is up. Last quarter, it was around INR 70 crores and this quarter, it's around So in terms of drag on margins, is that also one of the aspect going ahead? Do you see this kind of liquidity Going off in the next couple of quarters or this kind of liquidity will be maintained? So that is only on balance sheet. On balance sheet, we have bank sanctions, which have Documentation done but not wrong. So that we have enough and now so we always have excess liquidity, which can take care of at least close to a year's time. So because of that, we will also have the pricing part in terms of negotiating and pulling and getting the cost down. So we feel that this will last No, in the years to come. Because we have never recognized any challenge on liquidity, and this doesn't impact The cost or the margin? Rather, it will impact positively because since we have liquidity, We use CP to leverage, and therefore, it helps us on the positive side. Okay, sure. But my question was only to the extent of on balance sheet liability sorry, on balance sheet liquidity, which went up. It used to be around INR 100, INR 120 crores. The run rate of liquidity on balance sheet used to be INR 120 crores that has suddenly spiked up INR 200 crores. So just wanted your views whether this kind of Liquidity on balance sheet, I understand off balance sheet, we do have lines and non lines from that. But on balance sheet, since it's a direct drag on margins, Will we continue to have this kind of liquidity? No, we will continue to have this kind of liquidity and it will further go up, but this It will be a positive drive, not negative because this is for ETR purpose. So what we do is we also place at a much higher rate. And therefore, there will be a Okay. Understood. Understood. Sure. And sir, the next question is pertaining to the restructured book. I mean, you mentioned 2.7% of the loans were restructured. Are you seeing any sort of prepayments, Still early days, but are you seeing any sort of prepayments from this restructured book? Yes. Before I could answer this question, I would request Roshi to clarify on the earlier point. Yes. That on management liability, what about you're talking about because the liquidity covering ratio is applicable to the company with effect from 1st December. And on the back of analog calculation, it comes to around INR 800 crores. So our average INR 800 crores we should have in the government bonds are indicative assets. In fairness to that one, we have started acquiring the investments which can yield at a better rate than the loans as well as the cost of funds. The accumulated amount what we saw in the financials around INR 300 crores is only for that purpose. It will close up as the quarter passes. By the end of Q3, we are going to have the limit what I have been told. But all these things will be at the positive karaoke without any dent on the funds cost or the yield. Okay, understood. Yes. And then on this restructured book, any sort of prepayments that you're observing in this book? Maybe you restructured something in July. Are you seeing some prepayments happening? Actually, we saw this not now even in Murad. What even though customers opted for Murad, we saw We were in constant touch with the customers. So customers, whenever they had surplus, they used to pay. Same trend is continuing even in restructuring. So we see that customers are making payments. So we feel that by the time whatever is the period given to the customer, it gets over, I think we would have success of about at least 2x to 2.5x of EMI in customer's account. So we are critical. Actually, COVID pain is nowhere now. I think it is seen across. Salaried absolutely, there is no issue. Most of the customers who lost jobs, they have they are now reemployed elsewhere. And most of the self employed Now where there is loss of income, that is by and large covered. And I think by and large, we are because we don't fund 2 big businessmen. We only fund the small retailers, small businessmen who are into service. So our ticket size now is about L21 lacs. It has hinged up. It used to be L18 lacs earlier. Now it is L21 lacs. So average income per month is about now about 40,000 per month. So these are small businessmen, mostly retailers or somebody who So most of the businessmen to whom we cater to, I think income is almost back to 100% or maybe 90%. So we don't see that risk at all. The COVID risk, I don't think so. We would see that beyond a month or 2 for self employed. For salary, it's not there at all. And therefore, customers would have excess cash now, And therefore, customers want to pay and request us either to adjust towards the principal or set aside that against the EMI which falls due in the future. So we are seeing a lot of payments coming from customers. Thank you. Mr. Bharouf, request to join the for any follow-up. Also, ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we'll be taking our last question from the line of Daval Gharam from DSP. Yes. I think just a thing, we can extend the time by half an hour to quarter minutes. Time is not a constraint. Sure, sir. We can extend, not an issue. We will take till the last question. All right, sir. Then we'll request the participants to go ahead. Mr. Davalkada, You may please repeat the question. Yes. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just a couple of questions. If you could just So to summarize the total provisioning that we carry as of September 2021, we have the NPA provision, but just apart from that, The total restructured provision and any other excess provision that you carry apart from specific and restructured provision? Okay. As per IREC norms, we are holding INR 159.19 crores and Resolution Framework INR 7.37 crores Resolution framework, INR257 crores. The total is INR223.79 crores. So this is the total provisioning work we are holding. And how much is allocated towards restructured provisioning, total restructured? The restructured totally, it's about INV65 crores. So yes, INVESTEC crores. So $60,000,000,000 in lease culture, dollars 75,000,000 NPA provision and the rest is excess that you talked about. That is for the standard assets. Dollars 84,000,000 is for the standard assets. 84 is for the standard. Understood. Yes. So basically, 3 parts. 1 is NPA, standard of it and restructure. Got it. Understood. The second question is, sir, was there any interest income reversal related to OTR That we would have done during the quarter. 1 of our peers had seen a significant interest income impact, so I'm just trying to check on that one, Anil. No, we didn't have that in the quarter. Understood. Okay. And just lastly, sir, in terms of growth, So you had earlier guided to about 15% to 18% growth. Given the current trajectory and the commentary that you gave around disbursement, It seems that we will exit at a pace which could be slightly higher than that run rate. Just would you have some Give some color around what kind of growth we can expect in next year FY 2023 and beyond. Just Directionally, how should one think about growth? So I had earlier mentioned that we'll be we'll grow at about 18%, 18%, twenty That was on last year, because last year, because of COVID, we disbursed less. And therefore, I had told we'll grow at about 18% compared to last year last year. So last year, last year, we had disbursed about INVESTEC Capital Services. So on that, very easily, we can grow beyond 18%, 20%. And going forward, year on year, we can look at growth about 18%. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Shivran Sameshwar from Systematics. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. 1, if you could explain if you could dwell upon the salary segment, how many of them are new to credit? How many of them are for PSC Private sector, government employees and what kind of average income levels would there be? That's the first question. Inez, what kind of concentrations we have in terms of top 20 branches contributing to the sourcing and top 50 branches contributing to the sourcing? And my third question is on the CPs. Why are we so defensive on the CPs? There have been a lot of questions, but we pick almost every box Because we are a double A rated company promoted by a PSU Bank, which has an implicit sovereign guarantee. So why not use CP for funding? Okay. In terms of salaried segmentation, 50% is private and 50% is Gohin. In terms of income level, earlier it used to be about 38,000 per month. Now it is reached up to about 40,000 to 42,000 per month. So this is across geographies. So top 20 branches in terms of incremental disbursement It would account to about 45%, not the book in terms of incremental. Top 50, I think, would cover about I'm not I will need to check on that. It will be about 5% to 70% is not wrong. So in terms of CP, it is not that we are defensive when we have an opportunity of Creating liquidity from other source of borrowing, we don't want to use CP because generally, if you look at last 5 to 6 Yes, I think most of the damage has been created because of over usage of CP for funding purpose. And therefore, we have not found a need till now to use CP for funding purpose because we are high on liquidity, which is why as a strategy, we would always keep buffer in terms of liquidity so that we can, a, negotiate with the existing bankers to reprice the loan downwards and also we can use that cushion and leverage CP to leverage the cost. So it's not defensive. We have not found a need till now. The CP will be used for 2 purposes. 1 is when the institution is not getting enough sources to Lend, that's number 1. Number 2, to keep the cost low. So we have not found reason to borrow for the first one. So but we thought that, no, it will be a good idea to leverage cost because we need to be very cost efficient in this competitive market. And therefore, we don't use CP Basically, why? Because we are into long term business, CP short term, 3 months, 6 months up to 1 year. And we may also face challenge in terms of for ALM. And therefore, we just take CTU only for cost leverage, and we keep rotating that and not useful funds. And sir, one question is still unanswered. What percentage of the customers would make due to credits? Can you please come again? New to credit. Yes, sir. So new to credit would be in the range of 35% to 38%. Sure, sir. That is the outstanding or incremental. I am discount incremental. I am discounting credit card exposure. So new to bank or new to institution, I'm discounting. I'm just saying new to credit. New to credit will be about 30 The next question is from the line of Saurabh Thode from Tyovantish Capital. Please go ahead. Sir, good afternoon and thank you for A couple of questions from my end. So firstly, if I look at your coverage ratios, I think in the last I think the long term trend has been somewhere around the late 20s and the early 30s, but today you are at 40%. So I'm just trying to understand when the quality of the book has gotten only better. Why would you think of increasing the coverage ratios as the quarters go by? And Do you think this there is some more space in terms of the kind of coverage issues you want to have? So do you want to hike it to say 40% to 50% As in the future, please. So that is question number 1. The second question is, could you talk a little bit about the Competition in the SC and P segment. So you've already talked about how competition is abating in some of these borrower segments. So Do you want to have a relook at this segment? And you've already said that you want to concentrate on the salaried book, but is there a rethink that The changed landscape is prompting you at? Thank you. In fact, A few quarters back, we were getting questions as to why is your PCR at x level, we see Other intuition that the excess 20%, excess 30%. So actually, this is not customized. We just provided the note during bad times and we didn't write it back and therefore you see that the coverage ratio increasing. Anyway, it has to give more comfort to all the investors that our coverage ratio has increased. Otherwise, there is no other reason. In terms of COVID, I think we've seen that risk. I think it's almost coming to an end and we don't see much of a challenge in terms of restructured book. And therefore, we don't have a number in mind. We will take it up as soon as it comes in, but I think now 40% seems to be a very good coverage. And in terms of our focus, So we focus both on salaried and SCMP because SCMP is one segment where we get better yields. It is just that after COVID, the mix has changed more by design, not by desire. We desire to Acquire both salaried and self employed. Now because of COVID, because of the fear in system, we don't see too many SC and P profile is now opting for loans. It is slightly improving compared to what it was 2 quarters back, 1 quarter back, it is slightly improving. So we feel that we should get corrected in next maybe 2 to 3 quarters times. And on an incremental level, we should very soon see 75, 25 kind of mix. It's only a short term phenomenon, but we don't want to be very aggressive, force fit and self employed. We would want to go back to pre COVID level in terms of standards, sourcing both Salute and SCMP. And if it fits into a norm, we are more than happy to onboard the self employed customers. Now it is more of a design that the demand is more from salary and less from self employed. And therefore, we also see the change in mix. So is it fair to assume that in the medium term you think that the 70 five-twenty 5 mix works the best for you? Short term, not even medium term, next 2 to 3 quarters, definitely. It works. We are okay right up to 35% also, but not more than that. So 6535 is what we think is ideal, but we would not force it to reach that mix So no, in a given time frame. No, we are okay whenever it happens. So if market dynamics would want us to have that kind of mix Without adding any incremental significant incremental risk, we are quite open to it. All right, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Shripal Doshi from Equinorix. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Good afternoon. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My question was with respect to have you changed the payout Structure for the DJ series and the connectors when we've changed our sourcing strategy towards more of semi airborne and other locations? No, we haven't changed. We haven't changed payroll structure of DSA. It's now, I think, for many, many quarters, we've not changed at all. Okay. And then while we've changed our focus towards like the change in pricing strategy towards Sami Effendi and urban locations, how easy will it be for us to switch back to again Tier 2, Tier 4 geographies When we plan to change the pricing strategy? And then what will be the what will be the operational changes that we will look at? And like how easy is it Actually, one of my questions is more focused, Lirce. We've done both. We were operating at a high yield. We dropped our yields. We dropped our yields. Again, we have increased our pricing. So we shall see increase in yields. So we've done both in last probably 5 quarters. 2 quarters with increase in price And prior to that, we had dropped rates. So basically, switch is not going to be a challenge for us to a certain extent, which we have displayed in the last 4 to 5 quarters, and we will use this strategy in future as well. There's nothing obviously that we need to tweak. It's more of a focus and our approach towards this entire pricing strategy. But sir, like because what about the infrastructure that one needs to sort of have to cater to different customer profiles in different So from that perspective, also there is no material change that you see what we have to take? Because our profile mix is still intact. Barring, no, that's a slight change in mix between salaried and self employed, within salaried segmentation or within self And so even on geography front, the infrastructure is well equipped to source it? Exactly. So only thing is when we had dropped the rates, we had seen slightly better solid profile customers coming in and slightly higher ticket This is which again saw RE ticket size going up from lakh18, lakh21 lakhs. So now we are also focusing on slightly higher ticket size and therefore this ticket size will be maintained. But in terms of profile, not much of a detail. I suppose the change will be with respect to higher First image coming from semi urban and urban locations versus when we had a different strategy earlier? I would say we would continue to source from small towns, that is semi urban and small towns. And in big cities and metros, we source some outskirts. Even today, we do that. Only thing is when our pricing was low, we were able to also source from within the city. So now since you have increased price, there could be slight GAAP there, which might now extend to other segments. Otherwise, there is no change in the geography or the profile. Because even in big cities, we find opportunity to source affordable loans. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chantra Shekhar Sreedhar from Fidelity International. Please go ahead. Can you just tell me what is your average on lending spread right now, Nididb funding? Our incremental spread is 2.68 on portfolio No, just on your NHB, what's your average Yes, okay, okay, okay. I got it. Yes, so for NHB, wherever we do, they have different segmentations. So 3.95 is the average. 3.95 is the average. Yes, because of certain because we get a better Margin and NHV Refinance. Correct. And there was a question also earlier about when you are at a certain book size now, when the book size doubles Or triple, when you can't do you think you can run NHB borrowings at this contribution to your liability size? And if not, just trying to understand at maybe double the book size, can you actually maintain the spread that you have today? What I understand is that allocation what Venkvi gets for refinance and you can see the pool available in the market, I think still there is huge shortfall. And the Government of India's commitment to promote affordable housing, and if you see in that context, this allocation has to probably increase year on year from here onwards. And not many or not too many HFCs are into this segment, at least at this point in time. So at least I don't see any challenge in terms of meeting the allocation at least for the next 4 to 5 years' time. So even, I can tell you, you're saying that even at more than double your book size, we'll have about 25% NHP volumes? Allocation to Ganssen depends on Total allocation what probably in which we get from Gonenend. But as of now, we have a decent share, and we feel that next So 2, 3 years' time, we would continue to have this kind of share. Right. And second, just sorry, Sorry to harp on this question around the CP again. So when you're running it at 19%, why are you taking a call on interest ratio? That actually taking a call that right How variable the income is, you have CP borrowing below 4%. Because the more that can very well go up to 5% and that will just force you to sort of increase interest rates And pass it on to your customers or and in the process either you have a margin compression or you lose business? No, if suppose let's say if I change from CP to other source of borrowing then I'll not be able to maintain this kind of margin Or if I increase indeed, I have the loss of losing customers to other banks and institutions. There is a fine balance. So I have to balance the risk and also take the advantage of cost. And therefore, to balance the risk, we have buffer liquidity buffer. And to manage cost to be used CPE. And this will also ensure me to, a, retain, which will enable me to grow on book as well as this year. This is a fine balance. So we can always play with this by tweaking on either side. But this is something which is working for us without any incremental risk. And therefore, we thought, Nava, we should continue with this. So just on the last question, just from the can you give us some context on the restructuring, which you'll have given in this quarter? Just Either duration or what have you done? And another competitor, as Saman had asked earlier, had got some interest over sales. So just some contours on The restructuring, if you could correct. Yes. So total restructuring is about INVS 645 crores, And we have provided INR 65 crores for this. And the tenure varies from 3 months right over 24 months depending on the customer needs. So we have a set of customers. We have different, different centers. Max is about 24 months and starting from 3 months. In terms of what we have done is we've also seen that we also piece it out. We have bracketed customers into Different buckets depending on the income loss or maybe what is the need of the customer so that all the EMI queue would Stars, which would fall into every single quarter for next few quarters. And it doesn't bunch up in just 1 or 2 quarters. So it will also give us space for us to manage our restructured pool better, a. B, in terms of profile mix of the geographics, we don't see much of a But yes, we see that self employed restructured pool in terms of percentage is obviously higher compared to salaried because we saw more pain in Central Third as a segment due to COVID in our country. Now out of this INR 650 crores, we expect 7% to 8%. It's an estimate. We have done this based on profile, based on geography, based on Loan linkage is based on loan product, and we have used our own business intelligence to arrive at this. And we feel that at max, 7% to 8% of this pool could fall into NPA. And therefore, we EBIT, so that comes to about INR51 crores, and we have provided INR65 crores now. So it's fully covered. Now to add buffer to this, we also have plan of recovering about 60 odd total next few quarters from the India pool, which are fully provided or more than 50% provided. From these two buckets, we plan to pull back about 60 odd crores so that this entire thing is covered. So if you see over a period of time or maybe at any given point in time for next, let's say, 18 months, for example, which is about 6 quarters from now, So our NPS would ideally be less than 1%. And this also because in last 4, 5 quarters, we have not initiated legal and Surfacing. So now we are pretty active on both Surfacing and OTS. And we saw this in last quarter where we have recovered from NPA pool, which saw 0.9% coming down to about 0.78%. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Karun Agrawal from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead. Hello. Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. My question is around the right and I just took it there. It was earlier 18, which has driven to close to 20 lakh now. Is there any change in our strategy? Are we targeting customers which are more credit worthy? Thank you. So whenever the ticket size goes up, The portfolio would tend to improve. So we want to slightly increase our ticket size, but we want to remain focused on affordable So that we can get refinanced from NHP. Yes, from 18 lakhs, 21 lakhs because when we want to grow, It's not enough only if I increase my number of customer onboard. I should also focus on ticket size. And therefore, to certain extent, we would increase ticket size. But it's not go up drastically. Maybe every once in 2, 3 quarters, you'll see our tickets are inching by about a lag or so. So I think it must settle down eventually at about 23, 24 lakhs. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rohan Advan from MultiAct. Please go ahead. It's not very clear. Please keep the It's clear now. Krishnup, please use the handset if possible. Akhuz not coming to you. Yes, this is better. Yes. So my question is on NHB, which is 25% of our funding mix, which will be around INR 5,000 crores. And you said that you expect INR 5,000 crores of Incremental funding, which is 50% growth over what we have, wouldn't that actually increase NHB as As a part of the liability mix in the coming years? If you look at 2 years back, our liability mix for NHB showed much lower percentage. That is because NAP loan was coming at a much higher rate. And therefore, we were not keen to avail from NHP. Now rates are competitive and therefore we are willing. So we will if it fits into a cost structure, we are agnostic about the source to a certain extent. So because this is at a portfolio level, what I mentioned was on an incremental basis. So it's possible that this 25% can go up. It's also possible that this 25% can go down. It depends on at what rate we will get loan from NHP. Okay. Okay. So and my second question is on our average repayments, meaning that your And to be 18% to 20% of our yearbook versus lesser for some of our larger HFC peers. Is that to do with more pretendance that we get or the tenure of our loans by design are shorter than peers? If you could just help us understand I understand your first part, but what I understood was the average loan on book is about 8.5 to 9 years, which is in line with the market. So that is there. But BT out, as I mentioned, BT as a market is about 20%. And if I see net of BT in and BT out, for example, every quarter, we would lose about So if I have to see only weekly out, it will be about INR 40 to INR 50 crores. That's all. So I'm not sure whether I answered your first question or because I couldn't hear your first question properly. Yes. Look, sir, my question was related to our larger HFC peers. Each award of tenure was seen, which you said yes. Then do we have more payments than others, if not BT out, which is not much? Last year, we had more BT outs. It rose up to about 80 Prepayments. Prepayments, no. No, you're talking about BT out or prepayments? Okay. In terms of BT, we saw more BT outs Last year during COVID time, that's why we had to change our pricing strategy. Now it is back to pre COVID level. Now we see normal BT outs and normal BT ins. Whereas during COVID time, we saw less of BTs and more of BT outs. And in terms of prepayment, the trend is same throughout. There is no change pre COVID, during COVID, post COVID. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Chetani from Envision Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So I only had one question. So in the presentation, it mentions that incrementally 82% of the loans over for housing versus our historical trend of 90%. So is there anything to read into it or it is just a one Just a minute. I think 82% of work from salaried, so not So 80% correct, you are right. 82% of fresh loan approvals during the SI way for housing because typically what we do is that Postman loan or topper, even though it has the characteristics of housing, it is termed as non housing. So if we take that into account, this could be 90 others if we could apply. It is pure housing without top up and personal loans. If you look at our portfolio mix, then 5% is not 5% is lapped LRD and NRP, 5% is top up to end personal loan and 90% is home. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darshan Shah from White Equity. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. I just have one quick quick ticketing question. What is the absolute level of Phase 2 assets as of September end? So on book, it will be about 3.5%. So normally, if you look at the entire SMA, No, it will be about 7 odd percent to the portfolio. But what happens is that this is End of the month, it could be hardly anything that have come down. But again, openings would be higher, closing would be lower. But on an average, it could be in the range of about 3.2percent to 3.5%. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nikhil Chaudhary from Chris PMS. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, am I audible? Yes. You are audible. Congrats on a decent set of numbers. I just one question. Currently, if we go to raise out like raise money through NCDs, what would be our cost? We will be able to raise it about in between 6,000,000 to 6,250,000,000. Okay. And It was like what was it last year, like when the COVID was? Last year, what it was? It was about 6.5 to 6.75. Okay, okay. So it hasn't changed materially. So It has come down. It has come down by at least 50. Yes, yes. Okay, okay. And we would be our intent is to curtail CPs and probably as and when we try to raise NCDs, right? So our intention is not to cut NCP. Our intention is to raise NCD because now it is more of regulatory thing. So we will raise NCDs of INR 750 crores this year because that's our incremental borrowing plan. NCD rate is relatively 25% of total incremental borrowing. CP would we would try and operate within the limit to leverage cost. Understood. That's it from my side. And sir, I wish you happy Diwali. Thank you, Mr. Dutta. And we wish all the investors happy Diwali from team Kamten. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nitin Jain from Fairview Investments. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. So last quarter, you mentioned that about 70% of your book has been repriced To 7.5%. So I just wanted to know where that number was this quarter? So it's actually ongoing. So now I think the repricing, most of it on the downside is over. Now since we have increased rates in last six Man, now any repricing would be on the higher side? Yes. So last quarter you had clarified that About 70% has been repriced from the higher side to 7.5%. No, no, no, no. It was not at the higher side. Repracing, until March, it happened on the lower side. From April, it happened On the lower side, from April, it happened on the higher side. Yes. So Okay. So the way I understood is that from Q1 onwards, you have been repricing at 7.5%, right? Yes, correct. Correct. You're right. Right. So again, last quarter you had clarified that About 70% you had repriced to 7.5%. Is that right or is there a change in In that, over 70% of our book is repriced. So when I talk about repriced, till March Because the RAC rate was lower till March. And the RAC rate from April has increased. So anything which comes No, for repricing would be at the new RAC rate. Since we had increased the rate, it would have been at that rate. Okay, got it. And sir, a follow-up question is actually, so if I'm a customer in like one of your major markets at Bangalore, There are competitors like Kotak who is offering at 6.5% home loan. HSBC is offering at 6.7%. So why would I be willing to pay ISN 7% to Canfin? So if you can just throw some light on that competitive intensity? Yes. See, even today, while we talk about Camfin raising and building book at about 7.75%, We have too many HFCs which are building book at 12%, 13% and some even at 14%, 15%. And if you look at their cost, it will be upwards of 10%. So I think today market is quite large and there are segments, there are profiles who are willing to pay premium for the share rate availability and the same is what they get. So we focus on niche segment, different segments. We go to outskirts. We operate in small towns. We take that kind of risk. We tried to balance the drift by focusing more on salaries. When I say more, it's 70, 30 at a foot now maybe 74 and 20 foot portfolio level. So there's no opportunity available. And before in terms of branch network, I think banks are not able to go beyond the point Now where the fees can go. I think that differential existed in the past. Even now it takes years and even in the future, you will have a differential in terms of geography as well as service. So these are the differentiators. And also we give doorstep service. We give ready made projects readily made available to customers to choose from another properties, and we give concentration on Legal and Technical Aspects, so there are so many things which customer thinks is our ESP, which we feel is our ESP. And therefore, we're able to build this kind of book. And if you look at the book growth, it has been pretty well in last couple of quarters. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Praveen Molli from Prabdas Pilara, please go ahead. Hello? Hello. Your line is unmuted. Please go ahead. Yes. So this is Shweta Dappdlar here. So a couple of questions from my side. You just mentioned a while ago that your average tenure on the loan side is 8 years. And you also mentioned that the repayments are very much in line with industry. So in such a scenario, doesn't it warrant that your CP share I'm sorry, I'm harping on the same. CP share should definitely be coming down because then it would be A potential A and M mismatch in a scenario where interest rates are hardening of interest rates is imminent. No, we can do that. If I do that now, my cost will go up. If I can manage utilizing CTE Only for leveraging costs without my ALM getting disturbed and if it can help the company and the investors in terms of return, Why shouldn't one look at that option? Today, we have an opportunity. Today, we have an opportunity of high liquidity. And therefore, we are replacing that. God forbid, if interest rate goes up and if CT becomes expensive, then we will not take CT. And today, we're taking CP only as only against the backup, which is not for funding purpose. Someone somebody asked in this call, Why don't you use CP? Why are you so defensive about CP? Why don't you use CP for funding? We feel CP for funding is a very risky proposition at this point in time. Post Idesys and various other companies, which had to go through tough times. And therefore, we don't want to choose that option. But cost leverage, TPL's cost leverage is a very good strategy, which would help all of us without any risk. And therefore, we want to continue with this strategy. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Piranha Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. I just had a clarification, sir. When you said about INR 40, INR 50 crores BT out for you all, was that every quarter or every month? What is every quarter net? Okay. But what is it gross? So Gaut, now on a normalized date, it would be about INR 85 crores to INR 90 crores. That's the BT out. And the net would be yes. So on an annualized basis, only about 1.5% to 2% per year, the gross BT out. That sounds quite low, isn't It's about, no, it's about INR90 crores. Yes, you're right. Correct. You're right. Okay, okay. Only 1.5% to 2%. And what about foreclosures? How much would they be? Foreclosure would be, again, Excluding, see, for Fokrosh, I'll just put it in 2 brackets. 1 is the normal refinancing that out. Normal EMI repayment that I'm keeping it out, which will be about 2.5%. So if I leave that all put together, it comes to about INV360 crores. So which means every month, my book depletes by INVESTEC. This includes 3 parts. 1 is BT, 2nd is the pre closure and the third one is normal repayments and Collections. How much was in that 360, how much was the foreclosure? About 30 crores is decent. And how much was foreclosure? Foreclosure is INR 60 crores per month. Okay. I didn't hear that. Yes. Okay. That's all from mine. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nirmal Badri from Samixa Capital. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for taking my questions. My first one is on What rate are we? Yes, am I audible? Yes, you're audible. Yes. So 80% since 1st September, right, as per our website. So are we repricing at 8.25% or 7.75% at present? See, repricing will be a it depends on different segments, Right. It's because we're the risk rating and depending on the risk we repress, but it could happen anywhere between 8.25 or it could be 8.15 Depending on the segment, starting from 8.25. Yes. So the minimum address in this 8.25, right? We're pricing at 8.25, yes. Yes. So And sir, in the last one, specifically from Q3 onwards, when we revised our rates downward, we bought a very typical set of clients which we didn't use to get earlier, the higher average ticket size and higher income clients. So when their loans get repriced to 8.25%, why would they stick as in what are we offering them That they would continue to stick with us because these clients can very well move to the bank and still get a 7.25% or 7% rate, right? See, customer has an option of switching if we have beaten the customer. So we take a small fee and we switch the rate. And this is a common practice across all the HFCs. But are we starting the season? I think what has been the response in the last 1 months since It has been pretty good. Last if you look at last 6 months, our PT out has come down to pre COVID levels. We've been able to control that part. And it was the sale for the month of September as well? Yes, September also, yes. And this we have done for many, many years till COVID started. And only when COVID started, we saw pressure on book depletion. Okay. Thank you, sir. That was the only time. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be our last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kauske for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir. On behalf of the campaign, we thank all the investors for participating in this conference. As a campaign, we always Trying to increase the shareholder wealth by our proactive business strategies, and in coming days, we will continue with the same strategy. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Investec Capital Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.