Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Ganesha Ecosphere Limited Q3 FY23 earnings conference call, hosted by Antique Stock Broking. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Manish Mahawar from Antique Stock Broking. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Mahawar.
Thank you, Tanvi. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, I would like to welcome all the participants on the call of Ganesha Ecosphere. Today, we have Mr. Yash Sharma, Director, Ganesha Ecosphere, Mr. Gopal Agarwal, CFO, and Mr. Prashant Khandelwal, Senior Vice President from the management. Now, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Agarwal for opening remarks, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Agarwal.
Yeah. Thank you, Manish and Antique Stock Broking for hosting us. Thanks to all the participants for taking the time to join us today. On behalf of Ganesha Ecosphere, I extend a warm welcome to all of you at the company's Q3 earnings conference call. I hope all of you might have had a chance to look into our quarterly numbers and investor presentation uploaded on the SEBI. The global macroeconomic environment has largely been unchanged during the quarter in comparison to second quarter. Uncertainties and fear of recession is not so strong. Commodity prices, particularly crude and gas prices, are softening, and inflation has also started to soften slightly. However, things have not been improved for textile sector, which is looming under lower demand, falling prices, and pileup of inventory.
As our major revenue is coming from yarn spinning sector, we also faced some heat in the form of increase in inventory due to slower offtake and falling prices. Though we could achieve better margins and higher profitability due to higher production level achieved during the quarter. On a standalone basis, during December quarter of FY 2023, company achieved production volume of 29,904 metric tons, which is highest during last six quarters. Production level was 27,469 metric tons, during corresponding last quarter. Revenue from operations was INR 270.72 crore during Q3 FY 2023 versus INR 288.25 crore during quarter 3 of FY 2022. Turnover was lower because of decrease in sales volume, as well as drop in average realizations by about 4%.
Contribution of fiber and yarn is 85% and 15% respectively in sales numbers. In geography terms, we made an export sale of INR 30 crore during quarter three, as against INR 34.45 crore during corresponding last quarter, due to slowdown in the global market. During the quarter, we earned EBITDA of INR 34.19 crore, which grew by 3.6% on a quarter-on-quarter basis, and 7.6% on year-on-year basis, on the back of higher production numbers. In terms of PAT and EBITDA, it was almost flat at INR 11,433, in comparison to year-on-year number of 11,423, and slightly lower in comparison to quarter-on-quarter number of INR 11,810 PAT.
But during the quarter, INR 20.93 crore is higher by 4.686% on quarter-over-quarter basis, and 14.54% on year-over-year basis. On year-to-date basis, numbers are pretty good, and we achieved revenue of INR 8,877.81 crore, with production of 85,499 metric tons, in comparison to corresponding numbers of INR 734.97 crore and 82,853 metric tons respectively. EBITDA is also higher by 12.2% at INR 94.6 crore, as against INR 84.3 crore during nine months of FY 2022. PAT is at INR 56.18 crore, as against the corresponding number of INR 49.73 crore, excluding extraordinary item during the nine months FY 2022.
Now, I hand over the call to Mr. Yash for his comments on the operations of the company.
Thanks, Gopal, and I extend my warm welcome to all the participants. On operation side, this quarter was better when we achieved higher production amidst the slowdown in demand. In short term, though, the demand from consumer industry is sluggish and prices are also impacted, but in long term, we have a larger picture before us, and see an upturn in the industry due to improving global economic environment and increase in confidence. For the recycled industry, we see an encouraging scenario due to increasing awareness and realizing the need of circular economy from the society, from corporates, as well as from regulatory organizations.
As an example, just yesterday, our Honorable Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Kumar Modi, was present in the Parliament wearing a jacket made from used PET bottles, and IOCL has announced their Unbottled project for use of PET bottles in the uniforms for all of its employees throughout the country. These moves symbolize and state the need of circular economy and recycling. Two out of three of our subsidiaries have become operational during the current month, and we are hopeful in ramping up the capacity by end of March. These units will start contributing to the top line and bottom line from Q1 FY 2024. We are in the process of starting the commercial operations in Ganesha Ecosphere, most likely by the end of current financial year. This will add further growth to the company and its performance starting next financial year.
This is all from our side, and we thank all of you for your kind attention. We will be happy to take any questions which you may have.
...Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, you may enter star and one to ask a question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question from the line of Gunjan Kabra from Nivesh aay. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is, with respect to food grade bottle to bottle chips. So there are too many players coming up with capacities and also getting Starlinger machine, which I believe was a differentiator for us. So when we interact with Starlinger, people, they have so many orders from India is what they also guided. So I wanted to understand, how are you seeing this competition and going forward, and can this also become, like, you know, more like a commoditized product and reduce margins, which we think are pretty high currently?
Yeah. Thanks, Gunjan. As there is a big opportunity going to be opened up in the sector post by 2024 because of the regulations. So certainly there will be more than one player, more than one player in the sector. We are not looking for the entire entire opportunity size, the entire opportunity size impact. So other players will also be there. We are not doing exactly the the the players who are coming into the market. But we are confident that we would be having the significant stake in this sector.
Adding on to this point, I would also like to state that, you know, the Starlinger machine is not just what helps you achieve, you know, high quality, good food grade output production. The heart of this process lies in the washing quality and the decontamination efficiency of, you know, the unstandardized waste that is coming in. And since we have 30 years of legacy in understanding and handling how to derive the most out of, and the best out of the Indian PET waste, we are sure that the capabilities and the superiority of qualities that we possess, you know, everyone will not be capable of achieving that. Is what we are very, you know, confident about that.
Okay, okay. Sir, now talking, so, sir, will the new players when they come in, can that, you know, we are targeting EBITDA margins of around 25%-30% for this product. So can that margin reduce, when so many players come, or because we have a technical expertise, the margins will continue to be on premium side?
Yeah. We are confident in achieving the EBITDA margins. We are expecting it, though the actual margins will come after the start of the first one. But we are quite confident in achieving because of the quality and the product we are having, which is the best in class. During the-
Okay.
And also adding on to this, you know, the expected demand that is coming up, you know, is currently for the next 7 years, there is a big significant gap in the demand and supply numbers according to the current capacities also coming up. The current expected demand is running almost, you know, 2-2.5 times of what the current supplies are for the next 5-7 years.
Okay. Sir, also in the presentation, you mentioned that there are some global brands doing auditing is in progress. So is there any update on that?
So actually, when you are working with the big brands and big corporates, so there is a procedure in which, apart from the technical strength and technical properties, they also look for the social audits and everything. They conduct the social audits with the organization impaneled by them. So that is a part of the process onboarding with the big brands.
Sir, is there any timeline where we can expect, or will it take some more time?
Yeah, we are expecting to start, yeah, to commercialize the chips plant in by the end of this quarter.
Okay.
Yeah, we are pretty much to start the operation by end of this quarter.
Okay. And also, sir, from the textile perspective, how should we evaluate competition in risk case also? Because, for instance, you know, all the global players like Indorama or Far Eastern, Eastern Taiwan, and the Mexico company, they are also doubling their capacity, which definitely shows that the recycling trend is, very, very high. But, you know, for these companies, the major revenue, it comes from the man-made fibers, and they have made it, they are, this revenue contribution is pretty small, but then size is pretty big. So can we expect like, you know, IOCL is also doing the man-made fibers thing, so can we expect, for the sake of PET from clients also for similar kind of a structure, you know, to be built up in India also going forward?...
Maybe the margins for them would not be as high as that we do, but maybe the supply can increase from that perspective, I wanted to understand.
So in this sense, you know, I would like to tell you that these big organizations, they are always going to enter into the end products using recycled materials. Like, for example, even IOC, if we talk about, they have this project in which they want to, you know, get the uniforms for their employees. So this is something. If you talk about Far Eastern, let's say, so what Far Eastern is doing is they are procuring the raw materials, which is, you know, which is the output granules that players like us will be manufacturing. And they will be using that as an input for them to produce, you know, textiles and further integrations into those products. So big companies, you know, like these, they're definitely gonna, you know, start using recycled materials.
But the heart of recycling lies at the waste recycling sector, and which is, you know, which is the, you know, converting the PET bottles, waste into, flakes and into granules, which is—which becomes then the raw material. And that is something which, for, for which, you know, you need a very robust supply chain network and, and, and the technical prowess, which, only a couple of handful of firms, companies like Ganesha would be, possessing.
Okay, okay. So also, I wanted to understand how is the global bottle-to-bottle chip recycling scenario, because in Europe, for instance, the waste segregation is very inefficient. So are they able to do it, like, Are they able to have, like, good margins and cash flow? Or is it that we have a very good opportunity to export to, export to these nations also?
In fact, yes, Europe collection rate is increased. Yeah, Europe is also, in fact, some of the countries of Europe, the regulations have made it to see that the use of certain percentage of the rPET into the with the virgin, with the virgin one. And so, because of the Ukraine war and something that Europe was somewhat sluggish in implementing the regulations. But now they have started it again. And within the next one year or so, there will be a very hard regulations going to be implemented in Europe.
Thank you. I would request you to please come back in the queue. Participants, if you have any questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Jenish Karia from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on commercialization of the Nepal and South India plant. The first question is with regard to if you can have the EBITDA margin for the trading and yarn business separately, for the quarter?
You want to know the margins of the yarn business, right?
Yes, trading and the yarn business, first question.
The consolidated level, on our existing business, margins are about 12%, out of which, for spun yarn, we are having the EBITDA margins of about 15%-16%. But though the quantity is very small, it is not even 10% of the total portion quantity, so the impact is not much. The rest of the EBITDA is coming from the PSF business .
Understood. Next question is with regards to Nepal plant. Earlier, before commercialization, you were evaluating as to cater to the export market or use it captively. Since now we have commercialized, any view on that, how the realization would look like, the customer profile, anything from that front?
Yeah, in Nepal, we are using the flakes that is the out of the PET bottles. So the flakes is being transported 100% over North Indian plants. We are not selling it outside, but we are using it captively.
Okay. So, in that case, how much of the cost savings... So will it be beneficial in terms of cost? Because, for North India, we are sourcing from the North Indian, and, so basically from Pan India. So now we'll be importing from Nepal, so how different will be the cost of chain not?
Yes. So the PET bottles is cheaper in Nepal. So that will be a cost advantage we would be getting in importing the PET flakes from Nepal over North India plant.
If you can provide a number with regards to percentage of cost saving, any, anything, any number?
Jenish, your voice is not clear. It is breaking.
So, is it better now?
Yeah.
Yeah. So if you can just help with any number and percentage terms, how much of cost saving can happen from that?
Yeah, so the cost saving would be around 12%-13% from the material purchased from Nepal.
Understood. That helps sir. Just one last question. Since we have commercialized part of the plant in South and Nepal whole plant, how much of the depreciation and interest cost will flow through the PNL because of that for the quarter?
... Yeah, so for the Nepal plant, as far as the interest and depreciation concerned for the Nepal plant, it would be around INR 5 crore annually on an annual basis. And for the Ganesha Ecosphere, which we have commercialized, the depreciation and interest is about INR 15 crore-INR 20 crore on-
On annual basis.
Annual basis, yeah.
Okay, and INR 15-20 crore is for part of the capacity that we have commercialized, and for the rest of it will be even higher per full year?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.
Okay, I'll join the question queue for more questions. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask any questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Harsh Jhaveri from Centrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question was regarding the bottle-to-bottle capacity. So sir, how are we thinking in terms of selling? Will we look to sell only to MNC international customers who are auditing our plant, or from Q1 onwards, we'll also sell the balance capacity in the domestic markets?
Yeah. So, we are tying up with the brands, and it may be both for the domestic as well as export market.
Okay. Okay. And sir, as you have said, that, you know, this opportunity is huge, and there will be huge gap in demand and supply for next 5-7 years. So sir, what are our plans over next 3-5 years in bottle-to-bottle, per se? Are we, are we planning any new capacity after Warangal?
Yeah, of course, given the size of the opportunity, we would be expanding further in the bottle-to-bottle field. But, of course, currently, we are focusing only on the ramp up of tying up and ramp up of the capacity which we are bringing. So when it starts, we will look for the expansion projects.
Revenues from this bottle-to-bottle will start coming in from Q1 for 2024, right?
We are expecting from Q1, yes. We are expecting to start by Q4, by end of Q4, and the results will come from the Q1 for 2024.
Okay, sir. Sir, my last question was regarding the. So we were planning a small pilot plant of rigid plastic at our Kanpur facility, and then planning to scale it up. So sir, what is status there, and yeah.
Yes, so basically we do have this pilot plant, you know, established at Kanpur, where we are doing some R&D and trials in these other plastics, HDPE and PP recycling. But there are some issues that we're currently facing in terms of supply chain, ramping up and in terms of product development, which can go into higher end use applications. So, you know, there is quite a lot of R&D and trials to be done there on that side. But definitely, you know, we are still working on that and trying to figure out also along with technology suppliers on how we can deliver a good quality product out of that.
You know, overcome the challenges that are currently there in the existing plastic waste.
Moreover, our core strength is in PET, and so we are looking for the PET business where the opportunity size is also big, and we are having our core strength in that sector. So we are much more focused on the PET business, and therefore the other plastic recycling is in on the back burner as of now for us.
Okay, okay. Understood, sir. Thanks, thanks for the opportunity.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may enter star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Jenish Karia from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you so much for the follow-up opportunity. So my question is with regards to competition in the bottle-to-bottle segment. So, there are some capacities which have come up in South India. Varun Beverages have also announced a joint venture with Indorama Ventures. So how do you see the raw material trend? Firstly, what is the capacity of the competitors, the raw material trend, and, how do you see the market shaping up in India, and, Ganesha's position as an exporter of bottle-to-bottle initially, and then, catering to the Indian market?
You see, the demand of PET is increasing actually. You see, because of the technical properties, the PET is a superior product. It is, you can say, is the best product in all of the polymers because of its recyclability in n number of times. Other polymers are not suitable for recycling n number of times. They have two, three cycles and like that. So the application of PET is increasing, and so because of the regulations, because of the circular economy, the PET is the most suitable, and therefore, the demand of PET is increasing, and so the availability of raw material is also increasing. So we don't see any kind of bottleneck in availability of raw materials going forward.
... Yeah, as regards the opportunity size and looking to Ganesha's overall situation in the market, we are the prominent player in the PET recycling segment as of now, and we will remain the significant player in that segment also.
Understood. But sir, any sense on what capacity the competition is putting? We are primarily present in South India. So to cater to any bottlers within India, we need to have presence pan-India. Any sense on that, how we are planning to expand pan-India capacity over the next two years?
Yes. Yes. So basically, you know, we are working with a lot of, and talking, discussing with a lot of bottlers. There are definitely small capacities which are coming up here and there. But we don't see, you know, any one, any major, capacities or, you know, projects coming up. For example, for instance you mentioned about Indonesia, Indorama, Indonesia, and Varun Beverages. So even their capacity is not planned as of today. And the project is currently quite a lot delayed. But as of today, as far as the market intelligence that we have, we are the largest in the bottle-to-bottle capacity, and we are, you know, planning and ramping up also in the same way, to be able to grab the maximum market share possible in this field as well.
Definitely we will, you know, try to develop ramp pan-India capacities along with our bottling partners, brand partners, as their demands grow and as we grow along with them.
Sure. That's helpful. One more question with regards to price trends. You mentioned in the fiber and yarn business, we have seen some real pressure on realization. How is it shaping for the fourth quarter, and how do you see it going forward for FY 2024?
Yeah, certainly the textile sector, particularly the spinning sector, is in demand recession at present. And the inventory piling up is there in the sector. That's why demand is sluggish and the prices have also come down. So in this fourth quarter, the prices are down. But going forward, we see when the things are going to be more certain and the uncertainty is going out of from the international market, demand will pick up from the Q1 2024, and we see the prices will also start to pick up.
Yes, sure. Thank you so much for all your answers. All the best.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask any questions, please enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Arvind Kothari from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much for the opportunity, Gopal ji and Yash. I just wanted to ask that, in terms of the criticality of the washing line that you were alluding to, how difficult it is to crack? And for example, the experience that we have for so many years, are there other players which can be able to solve that task? Or you believe it will take a lot of time for people to have the washing line, which can cater to the bottle-to-bottle food-grade chips easily?
Basically, for this, you have to go little into the technical details of the specifications required for bottle-to-bottle grade chips.
Because it is a product which is going to be used in food packaging, there is a lot of strict adherence has to be taken up while deciding the specification. There is a-
Technologies. You see, earlier also some questions came about the Starlinger technology, which is available for everybody. But you see-
Starlinger also specifies that-
This set of parameters would be required for their machines to-
make a food-grade, bottle-to-bottle recycled chips.
They give you strict parameters. You have to fall in the parameters.
You have to be in a position to bring the wash flakes below these specifications, allowed impurities inside the material.
Then only you can get a good quality of food-grade rPET chips.
Okay.
Basically, if I elaborate it a little bit, we are working into recycling of bottle to fiber since last 30 years.
In fibers, we used to for common commodity fiber, we are allowing contaminants up to 600-700 PPM of impurities in the-
-flakes.
Okay.
For few good quality, or specialty fibers, it is constant to use below 400 PPM.
When we are talking about a good, food-grade rPET chips, you have to control it well below 50 PPM.
Okay.
So when we are talking about the impurities in the material, which is post-consumer waste, and we have to bring down the impurities to the level of below 50 PPM to control, then there is few technical things. You have to control the benzene level, you have to control the toluene, phthalates, acetaldehyde. So you have to control all these chemical impurities in the final rPET pellets.
Correct.
There are limitations from the regulations like EFSA , USFDA, and FSSAI. But apart from these regulatory barriers, the brand owners are maintaining their own specifications. So brand owners are more stringent, say, like Danone and Coke.
Correct.
They are following a level well below 50% of what these regulations are allowing.
So brand owners are more aggressive on this, to control the quality of the rPET chips. They are not following what regulations are saying. They are saying that: "Okay, regulations are saying these levels, but we want the material with 50% of what regulations are asking.
They are more stringent on this area because, ultimately it is, their brand value. So it is not that-
Got it.
Easy to everybody for everybody. So take a Starlinger machine and make the rPET pellets and supply to the brand. Okay, the market is very big. It is 1.2 million tons of PET being consumed last year in India.
Yeah.
A huge opportunity is there for rPET also, because it is going to be mandated in coming days.
The capacity required will also be very big, but we are confined to the high quality, highest quality possible from the available waste available post-consumer PET bottles.
So-
When you are ensuring the best quality, you are ensuring the supplies to the best brands, of course.
... your EBITDA and your margins would be far better than what others are going to do.
Perfect. Also, sir, I wanted to understand that, how this market has behaved in Europe, because there this trend has come early. In India, it stays, needs to be seen how it emerges in the coming 2-3 years when the regulation hits us. In terms of how the prices of the recycled granules move with respect to the virgin, you, you can say, material. So have they been correlated or, you know, the premiums have been constant or they've been fluctuating? If you can throw a color of how the recycled, premiums have moved, vis-a-vis virgin, in the markets which have a long history, maybe Europe or somewhere.
So, basically, if you, you know, if you look at the ICIS price indexes for rPET, which is, you know, currently the European major price index for rPET, you'll understand that the premiums of rPET in Europe with respect to virgin have moved from 30%-80% in the past two years. So,
Okay.
Usually they stay at a 30%-40% premium levels from virgin, and when the demand goes higher, it has also risen to 80% premium from virgin prices.
Okay.
That's how it has been in the past two years for now.
Got it. Got it. Perfect. And the regulations over there are also maturing. What is the export market, if you were to study it, like, how are the volumes over there? And some people from maybe, you know, Asia, might be supplying. So how have the supplies from Asia moved, and what is... I mean, if it gives a color of the size of the quantity of our exports maybe, if you could clarify that.
So basically, you know, what was happening in Europe was that the brands had started to consume rPET, you know, voluntarily.
Okay.
So the regulations were not existing for the past years. They are starting to kick in from this year, starting 2023. You know, the-
Right.
Some countries have 10%, 15%, some have 25% mandatory use of recyclate. But what was happening is, for the past 2-3 years, there was no regulation, but the brands were consuming it voluntarily. Now, they were able to do that because, you know, they had their own target, sustainability targets, and the economy was going good. But what happened last year was that in the past 6-8 months, since the economy went down, since the, you know, Russia-Ukraine war and the energy crisis happened, this, their voluntarily consumption came down drastically.
Because of which, because of which, you know, the market size shrank in the past six to eight months. But, you know, starting from 2023, starting this year, the regulations are kicking in, and there are penalties of EUR 500 a ton to EUR 800 a ton, depending on country, area or regulation. Everyone has to automatically start consuming, you know, regulatorily start consuming the rPET, so the market is starting to expand again aggressively.
Perfect, perfect. That is very helpful. On the textile side, I wanted to understand-
Sorry to interrupt you.
Yeah, shall I come back in the queue?
Yes, yes.
Okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Okay, thank you.
The next question is from the line of Hemant Soni, individual investor. Please go ahead. Hemant Soni, your line has been unmuted.
Y-yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thanks, sir, for providing me the opportunity. Sir, we have the commencement of the Warangal and the Nepal project. So sir, what kind of revenue can we expect? What kind of revenue growth, basically, we can expect in FY 2024?
Yeah. You see, from the Nepal, we are expecting a turnover of about INR 70-75 crore annually. And from the other, from the Warangal project, which has been operational, we are looking for the turnover of about... Basically, it is two parts. There is the fiber and the waste plant. As of now, till our B2B plant or this plant is operational, it will be consumed captively. So basically, it will not add to the turnover, but add to the bottom line. And the fiber turnover will be around INR 150-180 crore from that facility.
The total turnover from the Warangal project, we are looking in the range of INR 550 crore-INR 600 crore when operating on the full capacity.
Basically, sir, it's around INR 600 crore from Warangal and INR 70 crore-INR 80 crore from Nepal?
Yes. INR 550-600 crore from Warangal and INR 70-75 crore from Nepal. So total, INR 600-650 crore total.
Sir, are you seeing any demand slowdown, due to a slowdown in the textile industry?
Yeah, the demand slowdown is there, presently in the textile sector. Because of the international conditions where the export has been decreasing, and then some of the spinning units are operating at below capacity.
Sir, we could have postponed our expansion project then, if there is demand slowdown?
No, our expansion in the field of PET resin as well as in the field of PSF. We are not into the, we are not going to be spinning or something other. So we are going forward with our expansion, which is... And in fact, we are in the last leg of our expansion. Some part has started, and some part is going to be started by end of this quarter.
Okay. Okay. Sir, and, what kind of capacity utilization currently we are in?
Sorry?
What kind of capacity utilization apart from the Warangal project and the Nepal project is-
In our existing facility, the last quarter we already almost crossed 110% capacity utilization.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Soni, you can come back to the queue.
Thank you. Thank you.
We'll move to the next question from the line of Arvind Kothari from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, I wanted to ask on the textile sector, for example, yesterday you highlighted that our PM itself was wearing a jacket which was made of PET bottles. So in terms of the spun yarn, filament yarn, and the other yarns that will go into textiles, what is the opportunity over there, and the brand ties that we can do? How will that part also shape up, if you could elaborate?
Yeah, definitely. So, Arvind, basically, we have already been doing spun yarns. You know, we have some small, we have a small capacity of spun yarns already installed. But in filament yarns, we are also beginning, you know, our, filament yarn, trying to- we are also beginning to build up our filament yarn capacity, where the recycled filament yarn, you know, has a significant premium over virgin yarns. And that is because the pr... The, the technicality and the production of recycled filament yarns is very, very difficult and critical to achieve. And we are already underway on our developments with several other brands, you know, for our filament yarns. Currently, since we have our...
So filament yarns is a tier two scope for major brands, if you see, because after filament yarns comes the stage of fabric, and then final garmenting. So the filament, as soon as we have our filament yarn capacities, we will be in the scope covering of major brands, directly.
But as of today, since we have granules, we are supplying to the suppliers who are, you know, manufacturing these yarns. And we are already, you know, have a good pipeline of good suppliers-
- and brands in place, where we are discussing potential collaborations with them for recycled filament yarns.
Perfect. So, that is visible also in a lot of, you can say, brands like Decathlon and all, are highlighting that, you know, these jackets or these things are made from, you know, the recycled PET, PET shapes. But my question is that, will these, these players mandate their garmentors that they want to use Ganesha's products, or the garmentors themselves have an option that, whatever player they want to choose, they can choose themselves?
No, basically, basically, these are the, these are the mandates, they, basically, as some of the sources, these brands, these brands, give the mandates to, more than one supplier. They are not dependent on one supplier only. So globally, they have-
Right.
a number of suppliers, and their OEMs are free to source from any of those suppliers. So depending upon the quality and the prices and other things.
You know, basically, the major competitive advantage, you know, that we are gonna get, Arvind, with these brands-
is that, we have the bottle-to-yarn deliverable facility now, you know, which offers-
Okay.
- these brands 100% transparency of the process and of where the waste and bottles is coming from. This is something which these brands, the big major brands, value a lot if you talk to them about this. And they, you know-
Okay.
This is what, this is why they have been discussing with us and, you know, giving us preferential treatment currently as of today. Because we have the capability of establishing end-to-end transparency and traceability systems for them. Which, today, if you talk about, there will be no player you will find with that capability in India.
... Yeah, that's what I was, you know, wanting to allude to, is that, is the seriousness among brands in terms of traceability emerging? Because, there have been instances where, you know, maybe the garment is more, you know, focused towards reducing the cost, and in that process, will he, maybe use materials which may be substandard, but just gives him a tag of being a recycled, you can say fiber, or, they, they will be looking for chips which are actually, qualitative and have the traceability in the end.
Correct. Yes, definitely. You are right. You are very correct, that there will always be a market for both type of buyers. One side, there will be buyers who are willing to buy a cheap product, irrespective of the end-to-end traceability of the material coming from. But yes. This is going to be a very small percentage of buyers who are doing this, these all wrong practices. Yes, yes. But for brands, for brands, their goodwill, their brand value is very important, so they have never compromised. In our past experience also, in last 25 years, we are dealing with different brands like Target, Vardhman, and Trident.
Trident, and all, all those top brands, they always maintain end-to-end encryption of the material availability. Even now, there are few more products coming, emerging with a high premium like ocean-bound plastic, OBP. So now- Correct. Ganesha is also doing this OBP. We are OBP certified for supplying our fiber and filament for, from, ocean-bound plastic also. So yes, there will always be two level of markets: one, where the cost is important, and the second one, where the end-to-end encryption of the material is more important as compared to the premiums. So there are. Of course, we are looking to that kind of the market, where we are going to get a good premium for maintaining all these high-end clarifications or transparency.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Mahawar from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, so I just some bookkeeping questions on our company. One, in terms of for the quarter, your other income has been higher on a QOQ basis, if I look at. What was the reason for a higher other income?
Sorry, Manish, I could not get.
Your other income actually, for the quarter.
Yeah.
Is higher in Q3, so is any specific reason for the same?
Other income, in comparison to, corresponding last quarter, you are asking?
Yeah.
Yeah. So, there is some interest income and some income on the investments.
Okay. And what is the right now RPSF realization, if I look at on a 3-Q average and current price?
For PSF realizations for the December quarter was about INR 89.
89. And what, what was the price right now?
It is around that, those levels, 88-89.
Okay. That's stable actually since post the quarter.
Yeah, but as you look from the September quarter, it is down.
Okay.
In September quarter, it was about 95, so it come down to 98.9.
Okay, understood. And, in terms of CapEx perspective, which is, Varangal one is INR 450 crore odd. So how... I think so we will capitalize the amount in the fourth quarter, right? In the March quarter, correct?
Yeah. It will be from project to project. So for Ganesha Ecosphere, it has been, yeah, capitalized from first of February, then commercial started, so all the CapEx has been capitalized. And now onwards, everything will come in the revenue side.
Okay. No, but sir, how much amount will come in this year and basically in the gross block, and how much will come to the next year? Can it possible to share that number?
Because bottle-to-bottle will come in by March.
So basically, we are looking for the commercializing the operations of Ecopet also by the end of this quarter. So if that happens, so everything will be capitalized by the end of this year.
Okay. But out of this INR 450 crore, what was the amount, maybe possibly from bottle-to-bottle? What, what will be the CapEx for bottle-to-bottle?
Actually, it is a combined project for three activities all together. So it is for the filament yarn, for the PSF, and for the RPSF. It's the washing line. It is- Basically, you see the Gopali, the utilities all are common here. Common, yeah. Most of the infrastructure is also common, so it is quite difficult to identify. You can have a direct equipment which is attributed to a particular product only. But yes, of course, there is a big cost of utilities, like effluent treatment, boilers, and all those big utilities which are common for all the facility.
So basically, large part of your depreciation and interest cost will come from the fourth quarter onwards, right? Because first of February is a commercialization date.
Yeah. So it will come from the first quarter. So only the depreciation for the Ecotech is concerned, it will come from this quarter.
... and of the entire plant will come from the next quarter.
Next quarter. What is the right now debt amount, gross and the net in the balance sheet in the thirty-first March, sorry, thirty-first December?
For 31st December, we are having a total debt amount of INR 475 crore, including the existing business of Ganesha Ecosphere.
It's a gross amount, right? This is a gross amount.
Yes, it's a gross amount.
What is the net one?
So, on net basis, we, if we deduct the investment we are having with us, it is around INR 60 crore. So it is roughly INR 417 crore on net basis.
Okay, net basis. Okay, that's right. And how much amount it will basically what by March, and what will the amount you expect in the-
Oh, at peak level, we are expecting it would be around INR 550 crore on gross basis.
Okay, the incremental roughly 75 orders will come, by-
Yes.
in this quarter, roughly?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
And last one, in terms of government incentives, once the plant will commercialize, right, and will start from maybe first of capitalizing, all the lines, how do you recognize, in the accounts, government incentive, is it on a cash basis or accrual basis?
No, it will be on cash basis only because though we are going to submit our claims with the government.
Okay.
From this quarter on, but what we account for it as and when there is certainty and visibility in getting the amount.
Okay, understood, sir. Sure, sir, that's from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to thank management for closing comments.
Yeah. We would like to thank you, everyone, for joining us on this call. I hope we have been able to address all your queries. And for further queries, if any, you may be connected to our team. We also thanks to Mr. Manish for hosting this call. Have a good day. Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.