TTK Prestige Limited (BOM:517506)
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At close: Apr 30, 2026
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Q2 23/24

Oct 30, 2023

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call of TTK Prestige Limited, hosted by Ambit Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Dhruv Jain from Ambit Capital. Thank you. Over to you, Mr. Jain.

Dhruv Jain
VP, Ambit Capital

Thank you. Hello everyone. Welcome to TTK Prestige earnings conference.

Operator

I'm sorry to interrupt, Dhruv. Your voice is not clear. May I request you to kindly repeat?

Dhruv Jain
VP, Ambit Capital

Can you hear me now?

Operator

Yes.

Dhruv Jain
VP, Ambit Capital

Yeah. Hello everyone. Welcome to TTK Prestige Q2 FY 2024 Earnings Call. From the management side, today we have with us Mr. Chandru Kalro, Managing Director, Mr. K. Shankaran, Whole Time Director, and Mr. Saranyan, the Chief Financial Officer of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir, for your opening comments.

R. Saranyan
CFO, TTK Prestige Limited

Good evening. This is Saranyan here. Before I hand over the proceedings to Mr. Chandru Kalro for his opening remarks, I just want to remind the participants of the safe harbor clause that discussion today may contain certain statements which are futuristic in nature. Such statements represent the intentions of the management and the efforts being put in by them to realize certain goals. The success in realizing these goals depends on various factors, both internal and external. Therefore, the investors are requested to make their own independent judgments by considering all relevant factors before taking any investment decision. Thank you. Over to you, Chandru.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Thank you, Saranyan. And thank you, everybody, for joining us on the call for our second quarter FY 2024 earnings call discussion. Just as an introduction, I'd like to say that this was a quarter that was not as good as we thought it would be. We knew that there was a higher base of the previous year when we got into this quarter, but we were hoping that things would become better. And we also knew that Diwali this year was a month later, but normal growth, given the rest of the economy growing, we thought will also accrue to this. However, that was not to be because the demand has not been very healthy. You must have been seeing these reports in various quarters of the media, and therefore we have missed our mark this quarter.

However, in this situation, we have also seen intense competitive discounting that has happened, which we have tried our best to stay away from and not in any way damage the basic structure of the company. And I think we've been very successful. So barring the top line miss, I think largely our profitability is in the band that we want it to be. And we are hoping that the favorable base of the second half of the next year would help us turn around the situation for the second half. I now invite any questions that you might have on this. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one on the touch-tone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take the first question from the line of Sameer Gupta from India Infoline. Please go ahead.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Hi sir, good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question. So first of all, any quantification you can give of this late Diwali that would have impacted our Q2 numbers? Just trying to get a sense of if we do a Q2 plus Q3, would that be largely a YoY growth which we were tracking in 1 Q, or there is some improvement in underlying demand which we can basically estimate from here on? Your thoughts.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Look, I mean, I think the situation is not that buoyant. I do believe that demand has not picked up as much as it should have, and therefore, there's intense discounting that's happening, which we don't want to do. We have, however, launched some very good products during this time, and that I hope will give us some better sales. Now, coming back to the quantification of the Diwali, I mean, it is one month, or let us say three weeks delayed. I mean, from that point of view, if you see, and if you say that the Diwali, pre-Diwali sales spike is about 50%, that 50% ideally should accrue of that month's sale in the Q3 instead of Q2. It's difficult to put it in a way that whether this is absolutely accurate or not, but if nothing changes, then that's what the quantification would be.

If I take Q2 plus Q3, we would still miss our growth estimate because there has been a cumulative effect of the first half's demand slowdown, if I might say, that we may not be able to catch up. It's only the base effect of the previous year, which would help us look slightly turned around in the Q3 and Q4, which is what I'm hoping it will be. That's where we stand at this point in time. I'm sorry I'm not able to quantify this more than that.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

No issue, sir. But just to recap, the Q3, when you say we'll miss, it'll probably be a negative number in terms of YoY growth. Would that be a correct or fair estimate?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

No, no, no. In Q3, we are certainly not looking at a negative on a YoY basis. On nine months, it might be still slightly negative.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Q2 plus Q3, you were saying, sir? Anyways, nine months is negative is a fair indicator.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Slightly negative. It won't be very much negative, but I think it should be slightly negative, given that we missed quite a bit.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Got it, sir. And I see that there is still some obsolete inventory that you have written off this quarter. And I remember that last quarter also we had some of this issue. So first of all, can you quantify this obsolete inventory hit on gross margin? And secondly, are we now completely behind this issue, or there is still some more that can be expected in terms of writing off obsolete inventory?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Just to clarify, there is no write-off of obsolete inventory. What we have said in the release is that we have liquidated some high-cost inventory. There's been no obsolete inventory write-offs. That write-off which we did last year, I don't think we've added to last quarter. We haven't done anything in this quarter.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Got it, sir. Thanks for the clarification. One last question, if I may squeeze in. I see the cash flow statement, I see hardly any CapEx done around INR 46 lakh at a consolidated level. I mean, is this a normal thing that you do, or I mean, what would be the CapEx guidance for this year?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

So a lot of CapEx has happened, and it's sitting right now in advances because we have paid advances, and that machines haven't been completed. If I'm right, Saranyan, it is sitting in loans and advances in the balance sheet.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Sir, how do you see the number for some lakhs you are mentioning?

Yeah. It's a cash flow statement, purchase of equipment.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Right. So let me clarify. There is a substantial amount of money that's been paid towards advances for some imported automation equipment which is happening. I think in the region of about INR 18 crore or something, INR 16 crore. And that hasn't yet gotten capitalized, so to speak, which is why you're thinking, actually, we've got a very ambitious full automation plan at our Hosur factory, which will substantially improve on efficiencies from that unit. So CapEx is on stream, and we are doing it with the same zeal that we were doing it earlier.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

To give an accounting explanation, when we give money to machine fabricators and put in advances, when they fabricate with 30-80 days WIP, when it's converted into fixed and usable, it becomes a capital investment. So we have to wait through this accounting process.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

Got it, sir. And the guidance for FY 2024 in terms of CapEx?

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

INR 70 crore, yeah.

INR 70 crore, yeah.

Sameer Gupta
Equity Research Associate, India Infoline

INR 70 crore. Okay. Thank you. That's all from me. I'll come back in the Q&A any more. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Managers. Please go ahead.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my end. Look, could you give us some sense on packaging cost? How much is that as percentage of raw materials? Is it crude-based link? Is it paper-based link? Are we seeing any inflationary trend in packaging costs?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

So packaging, depending on the category that you're talking about, could be between 8% and 12% of the total bill of materials cost, give or take. There is no inflationary trend that we are seeing in packaging. If anything else, we have actually renegotiated our packaging costs this year, which you will see the benefits accruing in the second half.

Okay. Okay.

It is linked to paper, and it is linked slightly to crude because of glue.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

But mainly paper?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah, mainly paper.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay. Okay. Okay. Understood. So you did mention about a lot of competitive intensity. So if you were to just scan through the online channels, we do see a lot of small brands emerging at entry-level products. So just trying to understand how much of the domestic portfolio gets affected to this segment because we are present in maybe entry, mid, premium. And which specific products? Is it mixer grinders? Is it gas stoves where we are seeing that demand getting affected? Because it can't be across price points, and it can't be across products. And that translating to lower sales, I was just trying to see if I can quantify that.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Okay. First of all, let us talk about the overall demand situation. The overall demand situation is not as healthy as it should be. That is point number one. Because the overall demand situation is not as healthy as it should be, the competitive landscape has changed to a lot of discounting that is happening by brands. So these are brands which discount. And I'm not talking about the new unknown brands that you spoke of. I'm talking about the regular brands. And you would have seen it in the shopping festivals of the online and all of the kinds of discounts that people have given. This is definitely going to impact us in a small way because I still do believe that people buy brands, and price is the icing on the cake. At the entry level, on the other hand, the price becomes extremely critical.

Our portfolio largely is in the middle and the upper middle segment of the market. The entry level was supposed to be handled by Judge. Unfortunately, with the brands going down there, Judge has not been able to get that kind of traction. And the overall demand being low, we have missed our top-line estimates. I don't know if I've answered your question correctly, but in that order, you must take it.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

But, sir, if I look at some of the other things happening in India, mid to premium seems to be doing well across. So you look at TVs, you look at laptops, you look at washing machines. If I were to dissect that and look at, apart from entry level, all the things are doing fine. So just trying to understand.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

The premium is doing fine. The mid to premium is not doing fine. The premium is definitely doing fine. So if you take televisions, for example, the larger format televisions are doing well. If you take cars, for example, it's the SUVs and the new launches that are doing well. If you take two-wheelers, it's the premium and two-wheelers that are doing well. It is the mobile thingy. Apples are doing well. So it's the premium end that is doing it is unaffected. When I say doing well, it's largely unaffected. In our case, what is happening is the share of wallet which we had got earlier, substantially higher, today has gone back to other services like travel, luggage, things like that, which has meant that the share of wallet, our category is getting lower, which is why the demand is lower.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

I think a quarter or two ago, I had tried to understand this a bit more. In a scenario where real estate has been doing pretty well across the country post-COVID, so that has to come in the base, and that has to translate into higher sales, right? Because some of the other categories, they've done reasonably well and not seen such a destruction in demand, if I were to look at paints or sanitary wear or pipes. There could be some lag effect, but I think real estate has been doing pretty well. We think that should be now a good base for us, and that should translate and help us.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Absolutely right. That is why I said the second half will turn around.

He also said the word land premium. The paint follows immediate building. He said follows much later.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay. Okay. So we're hopeful second half we should see some traction.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

You're absolutely right in your analysis on this one.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

Okay. Thank you.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Thank you.

Prakash Kapadia
Principal Officer and CIO, Anived Portfolio Managers

All the best.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take the next question from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Yeah. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, this particular discounting, what you're mentioning, is it in a particular segment? It's across a segment? Is it in cooker, cookware, or it's in appliances or across the board? And also, is it widespread, or one single brand is actually kind of distorting the entire market?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

It is across categories, really. You see, there is a trend. The online channels, by nature, would like to commoditize the category. And by commoditizing, what they do is they try and get every brand to compete and bid, literally like a reverse auction, for the lowest price so that their platform attracts more and more sales. So it's not just that one brand is doing it. One brand probably will be doing it more than the others, but there is this pressure to increase the discounts. We have stayed away because, for us, online is at a certain level which we would not like to endanger the rest of the channels which we have painstakingly built. And we don't want to commoditize our brand, which is why this is happening. It has happened across categories, whether it is cooker cookware, or gas stove or mixer grinders.

It's happening across the board.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

I would imagine it is more at the entry to mid-level rather than premium, or it's across the segments as well, price points as well?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

No, entry and mid-level are more vulnerable to this. The premium end is generally very brand sticky. It's very sticky for brands. But the middle is where a large portion of our sales comes from.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Would you be able to quantify, sir, the mix in terms of middle and the?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

I don't think I can quantify that. It's different for different categories. It's different for different segments.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

I get it.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

I have complete information. I don't want to share completely.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Okay. No problem, sir. The second question I had was with respect to the gross margins. Now, if I look at the gross margins, I understand. I'm sure it is a function of the mix. But if I look at broadly, the mix is similar. In fact, it's a little better because the appliances drop is larger than cooker cookware. How do we explain the compression in the gross margin, sir? I mean, QoQ, if I look at. Is there a fair amount of seasonality from a gross margin perspective?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

It's not just category sales that you must see. You must see category and channels also. And I think the higher-cost channels, normally like online stocks up in the second quarter. And that is where you're seeing some difference. Actually, these things even out. I mean, now you will see that going the other way, hopefully in the Q3, for example. So that evens out. And I think between that last year's level of, what, 58%, it should be around 58% odd. The material cost. That's where I think it should be, between 58% and 58.5%. Shouldn't be any different.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Understood. And in terms of the new products, can you highlight a bit? Is there any white space within our, I mean, something like these storage, container storage, plastic container storage, or subcategories or subsegments like that? Is there any big opportunity out there which we haven't yet tapped?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

There is a lot of white spaces in terms of smaller categories which we are obviously looking at. But within the categories we operate in, we have launched several new subcategories. So for example, we've launched our anodized non-stick cookware. We've launched some nice Tri-Ply pressure cookers. We've launched Svachh gas stoves and pressure cookers, which have been getting a lot of traction. There is the induction cooktops with whistle counters and pressure cooking mode. Lots of new innovative products that we've launched, and I think that is giving us good traction and the brand good recognition.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Got it. And, sir, if I may ask in terms of the outlook, I know things are tough right now, very heavy, but from a medium-term perspective, is it fair to say that we can look at early teens or mid-teens kind of a growth at the company level, given the initiatives, what you're taking on the product side, new launches side, industry growth, and stuff like that? Is that a fair assessment?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Your first line said it all. It is hazy right now for me to take such a stand.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

No, but I mean, I'm sure these things will turn around someday. But I mean.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

I think let's turn around and then talk about that outlook.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Understood. And sir, sorry, I'm again going back to the same question. You mentioned that part of the 2Q was impacted because of the delayed festival, but now, like you said, three weeks impact, right? So we are in the far end of October. Is it fair to say that from a YoY perspective, given the demand scenario, we would be a bit of a flattish only for the August, September, October combined? I'm just trying to figure out how much is this really about.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah. I would look at it as September, October, November, and not August, September, October. And I think we will not be flattish. We will come back to growth in this period, YoY.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Understood. Great, sir. I'll come back in the Q for follow-ups. Thank you so much.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Kunal Sheth from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.

Kunal Sheth
Equity Analyst, B&K Securities

Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, would you be able to share the market growth and our market share trends for the first half?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

The market hasn't grown. Our market share is largely stable.

Kunal Sheth
Equity Analyst, B&K Securities

Okay. So market share is so we have neither gained nor lost.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah. I mean, you would have seen the first quarter numbers. There's very little to choose from between players if you look at it. Because what numbers you're seeing the players, that is their sale into market. What the market share number is, it is their sale of. It's the tertiary sales. So largely, my feeling is that market shares are stable. But the overall market hasn't grown. If anything, it's slightly negative.

Kunal Sheth
Equity Analyst, B&K Securities

Sure. Sure. And sir, my second question is around discounting. Sorry to harp on this. But sir, given the fact that we are around the festive season, and so is it the case that channel was sitting on a significantly higher inventory, and therefore they were very keen to discount? Because discounting right ahead of festive season seems slightly counterintuitive.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

No, discounting is not happening only before festive season. It has happened right through Q2. In fact, part of Q1 also was impacted because of this. See, the point is when the market isn't growing, everyone's getting a little bit desperate. That's what's happening. It's not that before festival, this is happening.

Kunal Sheth
Equity Analyst, B&K Securities

Okay. So was it the case it is generally that market was not growing, or channel was also sitting on significant inventory, or it is just that the market was not growing, and therefore there was significant pressure as far as discounting is concerned?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

I don't think the channel was sitting on very high inventory, but I don't think the channel was in a mood to increase their inventory either.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Having bought channels, we'll not discount.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

We expect to discount the consumer manufacturer.

Kunal Sheth
Equity Analyst, B&K Securities

Got it. Okay. Thank you so much, and best of luck for the future.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Aniruddha Joshi
Senior Associate - FMCG, ICICI Securities

Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you indicate about the performance of the Judge brand? So where are we in terms of the availability of the product? Is it available across the redistribution of TTK, and how do you see the distribution mapping for the Judge brand? Also, what has been the offtake and growth rates in Judge brand's? And secondly, we have been talking a lot about the new premium brand to be introduced. So any update on that? We have not yet seen any action on that. So when do we see the launch on that account? Yeah.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

So the Judge brand, as I said, I think we have a few questions before. Unfortunately, has been a victim of all the discounting that is happening, which is because the regular brands themselves are going at price points which I should ideally operate with the Judge brand at. So that is why that has been a little bit of a slow thing. Having said that, I think around 30%-35% of our distribution today has the Judge brand. And I don't know whether you noticed this time when we were advertising for the festival, we advertised both Prestige and Judge by Prestige alongside each other in the same creative, precisely to drive that kind of distribution across the board.

So the Judge brand, while it's not progressed as well as we would have liked it to be, I think it still made very heavy progress, except that because of whatever I've said earlier, that's why it is slowing it down. On the upper-end brand, we don't have any plans to announce at this point in time. It's work in progress, certainly work in progress. And we'll come back to you as and when we have something to announce.

Aniruddha Joshi
Senior Associate - FMCG, ICICI Securities

Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. And sir, in terms of the commodity-led pricing, so do you see the benefit is largely in the numbers now, or do you see any possibility for margin expansion in H2 as well? Yeah. That's a question.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

I have a clear answer. Commodity prices are stable, but the tendency is to pass it all on to the market by everybody else, and therefore you're not seeing that there is a big growth. That's what is happening in this game. I don't think there will be any margin pressures from a gross margin perspective in the second half. I think you will see it either stable or slightly better than what you've seen in Q2.

Aniruddha Joshi
Senior Associate - FMCG, ICICI Securities

Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Operator

Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one. We'll take the next question from the line of Charanjit Singh from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

Hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, if we look at the appliances segment, which always you had a very positive view in terms of the growth, which you can see, and this segment has also seen a 20% kind of a degrowth, so within the appliances category, if you can touch upon mixer grinder and other segments, the competition, because that is generally coming from the large organized players who are coming into the even mid-end of premium category, so if you can just give us more detailed color on the appliances segment and the competition there.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Competition is also going through the same pressures if you ask me. I mean, whatever I'm seeing in the marketplace, they're going through the same kind of pressures. They're going through the same kind of lack of growth or even degrowth in some cases. And there hasn't been too much of a difference. Everybody has gone and tried to close all the white spaces within each category. So everyone's launching products in the upper end and in the middle end and in the lower end within that brand itself, which is what we are also doing. I think there's not much to choose from except for some things here and there, like our Svachh hobs, for example, which we launched. Or, for example, I don't know whether you've seen it. We've launched some very unique IoT-led chimneys, which is completely unique, which is not there with anyone.

Except for things like this, there's not much to choose from, but everyone's trying to do the same things if you ask me.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay. Sir, if there's a quantification of the discounting, what's the kind of level of discounting which is happening? And in each segment, maybe mid-premium also, is there a heavy discounting happening? And in the entry level, what's the kind of pricing differential which TTK will have versus maybe number two, number three players?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Difficult to say that because the number of SKUs we operate in 27, 28 categories. Each category has its own set of rules. So, I mean, I don't think I can answer that question in greater detail.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Just average it out because in each category, what's our 10- 30, models and each model. Each model is very different compared to the competitor's model. Very difficult for you to draw some line there.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

And sir, from the geographic perspective, generally, Southern market has been a very important geography for us. If you can touch upon the Southern market itself, the entry of the new players, because some of the players who are not really present now expanding into that market, which could create a more stiff competition in that market. So how are you seeing that?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Again, the problem is lack of demand. For example, during Onam, I don't think anybody has sold whatever they wanted to sell. So it's an issue of demand rather than anything else. I don't think there is a competitive I mean, the lack of competitiveness from Prestige or anything that we have to be worried about from a competitive scenario basis.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay. And sir, now we have seen also a lot of online sales happening. And if you look at the numbers, what Amazon and all, they are talking about much higher sales growth. So if you can touch upon the growth differential, which would be there in online versus the offline channel, and is that also one factor where the discounting is playing out in a big way and impacting our market share?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Sure. The online space has definitely been an irritant in terms of the amount of discounting. There is absolutely no doubt. Coming back to the growth that they are talking about, I think you will have to get into greater detail whether they have grown in terms of volume or value. According to me, they might have grown in terms of volume but not in terms of value. But that's something that I don't want to argue my case on. They will tell you things that are not necessarily the full story. I believe that that kind of discounting is not tenable. They have gone overboard this time. We have gone overboard in making sure that things don't go out of line in terms of our channels not getting too much conflicted with whatever is happening.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

Lastly, from my side, in terms of the competitive pressure now going forward, what is your focus in terms of market share or margin? How will you see that? Because if you have to maintain the market share, there might be a dilution in the margin, what we are seeing in some of the other categories with the rising competitive intensity and not abating despite even growth picking up.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

See, as long as I tell you, I can't take a black or white situation there. What I can do is to make sure that I don't do anything that permanently damages the company's profitability and gross margin and net margin situation. Wherever tactically I have to give away something, I have been doing that with the view that it is reversible and not permanent in nature. During the last quarter, you would have seen that almost anyone and everyone who has reported results has reported a drop in their EBITDAs. Even the one or two peers who have given results before us this time, you will see that their drop in EBITDAs is significantly higher than ours. So we are trying to make sure that our basic structure is maintained. And while doing so, we have not lost our market share largely.

We have maintained our leadership positions in our key categories. We have maintained our market share largely, and we believe that this too shall pass, and we don't want to do anything rash in the meantime.

Charanjit Singh
Portfolio Manager and Equity Analyst, DSP Mutual Fund

Got it, sir. Thanks for taking my question, sir. That's all from my side.

Operator

Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, may please press star and one now. We'll take the next question from the line of Shirish Guthe from HDFC Life Insurance Company. Please go ahead.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Thanks, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, I just wanted to understand in terms of employee cost, both in terms of CAGR as well as in terms of percentage of sales, it has been growing much ahead of the top line, even over a longer period if I ignore the quarter-on-quarter volatility. If you can just explain what should this as a percentage of sales, this number should settle at in the slightly longer term, especially in the view of the new automation CapEx that you are doing? And also, there was an announcement regarding productivity-led compensation at Hosur. So maybe you can explain that, I'm sorry.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

So the employee cost as a percentage of sales is looking like it's going up because we haven't grown in top line. That I think is the basic truth. I don't believe that there's anything untoward that has happened there. Our salary increases have been largely in line of being slightly above inflation. And the LTS, the labor settlement that happened in Hosur also has happened in that same spirit. We are seeing this settling down at our long-term averages that we are telling. And that is where it will be.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Just automation CapEx, how much saving are you expected to see and especially I think I believe employee cost will be the key cost which will.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

One second. The automation, see, look at the company's payroll structure. There is a white collar there is a blue collar. The automation will save some money on the blue collar. It also gives us extra capacity to say that we will have a larger EBITDA margin going forward once we complete the automation. As regards, as MD pointed out, which increases our salary because of the normal. Apart from blue collar, which is the revenue settlements and movement in the DA, otherwise, look at as a company, we have been operating between 7% and 8%. Where the sale increase will go touch 8%, where we are growing, it will come even to 6.8%.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Okay. Sure.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Your average settling down will be around 8% is what the point is.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Which is far below the industry average.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

But for that to happen, even if your top line grows at double digits, employee cost would have to be significantly in terms of low single digit from here on.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

In a lighter manner, unless I pay my employees, they will have the purchasing power. If they don't purchase, I will have no business. This applies to the entire industry.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

If you look at last year, for example, we were at 7.8% standalone. Right? I mean, the reason you are seeing this go up is because that top line has gone down. That is why you are seeing this right now.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Understood. Sure. Thank you so much. That's it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, JM Financial

Sir, just wanted to check in terms of cooker cookware capacity as of now and what kind of expansion are we looking at over the next couple of years given the CapEx what we are looking at?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

We are not looking at aggressively increasing our capacity through additional factories or additional machinery. However, our capacity will go up because of the automation which Mr. Shankaran just spoke of. Our ability to run a third shift from the same amount of machinery would go up because it's automation. So there's enough capacity. I don't think I'm seeing any untoward CapEx happening to meet with any growth objectives that we might have as we go along in the next 3-5 years.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Got it. Any quantification you can give, sir, what is the current capacity in terms of?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

We are utilizing between 65% and 70% at this point in time with the automation that utilization will come down in the short run, but we can then use that time to actually produce even more once the automation comes.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Understood. And of the total, so I presume entire cookware is in-house while appliances substantially?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Appliances are contract manufacturers, yes.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

So how much is the contract manufacturing of appliances, sir?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

The entire appliances are contract manufactured. We don't make much at all in that.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Okay. Okay.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

They're all dedicated vendors to us, and they are all under contractual manufacturing system.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

So when you say dedicated, you mean they are exclusive to us. Is that?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

90% of their business is with us plus in many cases.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Okay. Okay. Understood. Sir, we've been kind of looking at significant exports for a while. Any update what is happening? I know things are tough again overseas as well, but any concrete steps we have seen taken on the export front if you could highlight?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

See, the exports also, if you are aware that many of the after the COVID, what happened was many of our retailers were overstocked in inventory, and they have only started normalizing in their inventory now, which is why the exports have not been as good as we would have liked it to be. However, the good news is that we have now come very close to closing some deals with some new customers as well. And I can't talk about it at this stage, but I think that will also give us growth apart from the existing customers growing by themselves. So exports should be back on track in the next two quarters or so. That's what I feel.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Right. Sir, if I look at the competitors, some of the competitors are doing very good numbers on the export. So is it that we are looking at a certain margin benchmark, and that's why we kind of lose out?

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

No. The person you are referring to is at the lowest end of the market with a very large retailer, and we did not have that equipment until six, eight months back. And I believe that we have that equipment now, and we can definitely compete in that area, but largely, TTK Prestige prefers to work in the value-added segment, prefers to work with middle and upper end, which is what we work with in India. And that's been our strategy, and we can also offer this, but that is not our primary offering.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Margins could be thinner.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah, the margins are thinner. And you have seen the kind of margin profile of the person you just referred to over the last three quarters.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Absolutely.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah.

Shirish Guthe
Equity Research Analyst, HDFC Life Insurance Company

Got it, sir. I think that's about it from my end. Thank you so much.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Yeah.

Operator

Thank you. Anyone who wishes to ask questions, may please press star and one on their touch-tone phone now. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Chandru Kalro
Managing Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Well, thank you. That was an interesting session. I must say that these phases come and go, and I believe I'm very optimistic for the second half of the year. I believe that things will turn around. I believe that this country is on the right track in terms of its economy, and our category should get back its rightful share of wallet as we go along, and I'm hoping for better times and hopefully a better call next time. Thank you.

K. Shankaran
Whole Time Director, TTK Prestige Limited

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Ambit Capital, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

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