Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 FY25 earnings conference call of KEI Industries, hosted by Monarch Networth Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Dani from Monarch Networth Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thank you, Joshua. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Monarch Networth Capital, we're delighted to host the senior management of KEI Industries. We have with us Mr. Anil Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director of the company, and Mr. Rajeev Gupta, CFO of the company. We will start the call with opening remarks from the management and then move to Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, so good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much. I'm Anil Gupta, chairman and managing director of KEI Industries Limited. I welcome all of you on this conference call. I'll give a brief summary of this quarter and H1. Net sales in Q2 in financial year 24-25 is INR 2,279.64 crore against INR 1,945 crore last year. The growth in net sales is 17.21%. EBITDA is INR 237.52 crore with a margin of 10.42% EBITDA/net sales margin as against 10.88% in the same period previous year. Profit after tax in this quarter is INR 154.81 crore against INR 140.2 crore last year. So growth here in the PAT is 10.42%. Profit after tax/net sales margin is 6.79% versus 7.21% in the previous year. Domestic institutional cable sales, wire and cable is INR 615 crore against INR 511 crore with a growth of 20%.
Domestic institutional cable sales, extra high voltage cable is INR 73 crore against INR 169 crore in the previous year. Capacity of extra high voltage cable has been used for medium voltage and high voltage power cables, so export sales in this quarter is INR 241 crore against INR 249 crore last year. The total institutional cable sale contribution is 39% against 44% in the previous year, same period. Sales through dealer network, dealer and distribution network is INR 1,258 crore in Q2 against INR 923 crore last year.
Growth in this segment is 36%. B2C sale, distribution network sale has contributed 55% in the Q2 as against 47% in the previous year, same period. EPC sale, other than cable, is INR 80 crore against INR 113 crore last year. Out of total sales of EPC, EHV EPC sale is INR 39 crore against INR 44 crore in the same quarter last year.
Stainless steel wire sales in Q2 is ₹59 crore against ₹58 crore last year. Now, I will give a summary of H1, that means April to September. Net sales in H1 in this financial year is ₹4,340 crore against ₹3,725 crore last year. So growth in net sales is 16.5%. EBITDA is ₹469.93 crore against ₹398 crore. Growth is 18% in EBITDA. EBITDA/net sales margin is 10.83% as against 10.69% in the same period previous year. Profit after tax in H1 financial year 24-25 is ₹305 crore against ₹261.59 crore. Growth in PAT is 16.62%. PAT/net sales margin in six months is 7.03% versus 7.02%. Domestic institutional cable sales, growth is 19% in first six months at ₹1,189 crore. EHV sales is ₹152 crore against ₹218 crore last year. Capacity of extra high voltage cable has been used for producing HT power cables. Export sales is ₹474 crore.
The total institutional sale contribution in H1 is 39% against 44% in the same period previous year. Sales through dealer network is INR 2,343 crore against INR 1,765 crore. Growth is approximately 33% through dealer network. That is B2C sale. The total acting working dealers of the company as of 30th September was approximately 2,038. B2C sale has contributed 54% in H1 as against 47% in the same period last year. Volume increase in the cable division on the basis of production and for consumption of metals in H1 is against as compared to previous year. Same period is around 14%. Pending order as on 13th October 2024 is INR 3,847 crore. Out of which EPC is INR 603 crore, extra high voltage cable INR 301 crore. We are L1 in orders of INR 186 crore of Tata Power 220 kV cables, which is yet to be officially come.
Domestic cable order is INR 2,368 crore, and export order spending are INR 575 crore. External rating, KEI has upgraded company's long-term rating as AA plus. Long-term rating from India Ratings and Research Private Limited, and ICRA is AA. Short-term rating from India Ratings, ICRA and KEI is A1 plus. The book value for per equity share of the company is INR 382.96 against INR 348.87 on March 31st, 2024. The total borrowings at the moment is INR 314 crore. Channel finance INR 109 crore. Cash and bank balances INR 245 crore.
As against total borrowings of INR 134 crore as on 31st March 2024. Acceptances as on 30th September 2024 is INR 357 crore. As against INR 506 crore in March 2024. So the net debt is INR 426 crore as on 30th September 2024. During H1 24-25, finance cost was INR 27.49 crore against INR 16.47 crore in the previous year, same period.
The percentage of financial charges on net sales has increased in this period 2.63% from 0.44% in the last year. Interest income from bank deposits and others in H1 is INR 13.32 crore, which is included in the other income. It was INR 9.83 crore in the previous year, same period. The future outlook of the company during H1 of FY24-25, company has incurred a capital expenditure of capital expenditure payment of approximately INR 312 crore, out of which Sanand INR 169 crore, Chinchpada in Silvassa INR 48 crore, Bhiwadi INR 25 crore, Pathredi INR 38 crore, and other plants and locations INR 32 crore. Brownfield Capex at Chinchpada and Pathredi to add further capacities of wire and power cable has been completed in H1 and fully commissioned.
After the completion of Brownfield Capex, capacity utilized during H1 2024-25, approximately 78% in the cable division, 71% in the house wire division, and 93% in the stainless steel wire division. This Brownfield Capex will enable us to grow by 16%-17% in this financial year. Apart from the Brownfield Capex, in FY2024-25, company has planned a total Capex of INR 900 crore-INR 1,000 crore on greenfield expansion at Sanand for expansion for LT, HT, and EHV cables in Gujarat. Commercial production for which will commence by Q1 of FY2025-26. We started the construction in FY2023-24. Further, we will spend another INR 600 crore in the next financial years to complete the project to maintain a CAGR of 15%-16% per annum as against achieved CAGR of 14%-15% during the last 15 years. So this is a brief summary. Thank you very much.
Now you can come with any questions you may have, and we'll be pleased to answer it. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mr. Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Very good afternoon, Anil Gupta and Rajeev Gupta. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first question was on the QIP fundraise. Based on whatever cash flow projections we understand of the business and based on your guidance for fiscal 2025-2026, my sense was INR 400 crore-INR 500 crore debt would have been sufficed to incur all the CapEx given the internal accrual improvement for the business. And so could you explain, sir, what is the rationale and any change in the CapEx plan? Where do you plan to invest this money?
Actually, after the brownfield CapEx, where we had already invested INR 250 crore plus, and the additional expenditure on the Sanand project, wherein the INR 1,800 crore-INR 1,900 crore will be required to complete the full project by next financial year. So, keeping in mind, then while going for the term loan, if we take a INR 600 crore, which we have already sanctioned from the bank also, there will be another requirement for working capital loan also for the next financial year. Because if we spend all our cash accruals only for CapEx, then we need the further amount for working capital as well. So that's why we thought that without having the further borrowing or additional borrowing, we should go ahead with this project if we raise some fund from the market. So that was discussed in the Board, actually.
Okay, got it. So obviously, my sense is working capital is you have done a great job over years on the working capital side. So we're still trying to get it down further. My sense is this INR 2,000 crore obviously also has a growth angle to it. Any sense, could you like to give some direction in terms of where most of this capital will get used for?
As we said, that we have for the current year, we have the plan for Sanand itself is close to INR 900 to.
The line for the management has been disconnected. I'll just go ahead and reconnect you. The line for the management has been reconnected. You can go ahead.
Hello?
Yes, Rajeev Gupta. So you were answering the question for where will the growth Capex be used for. That is where the line got disconnected.
Yeah, so this Capex will be fully so this fund will be fully utilized for the Sanand project, mainly, so that we will be having sufficient internal accrual to fund the additional working capital requirement for the 26, 27, and 25-26.
Okay. Okay, fine, sir. Second question was on the quarter itself. Seems like the institutional sales and exports both have been weaker while all the growth was driven by dealer sales, which is the channel sales. Could you help understand this better? What exactly happened? My sense is.
You see, earlier also we have explained that it does not matter to us whether export is increasing, retail is increasing, EHV is increasing. Matter to us is how we are utilizing the capacity. So if the retail is pushing more in this quarter, so we have sold there. So ultimately, we need to utilize the capacity. So accordingly, our sale has already improved 17%. Little bit impact on the EBITDA margin, mainly because of, as we were earlier explaining, that if the copper or aluminum prices get fluctuated, so in one particular quarter, it gets increased or decreased, which will be adjusted in the another subsequent quarter. So if you compare the last quarter, wherein the raw metal consumption was lesser by close to 1%, the same gets adjusted in the financial year.
So once it is averaged out, if you compare the six-month result, it is already averaged out. So there is no impact on six-month or the full-year balance sheet.
So what it means is the margin, which is whatever it is.
For the full year, as Anil Ji has already guided, that our 17% growth will be there because we have the capacity to maintain that kind of growth. EBITDA margin will also be there, as we have earlier guided, 10.5%-11%.
We have already in H1, in six months, our EBITDA margin is 10.88%. If we look at the total EBITDA margin of April to September.
Got it, sir. Lastly, one clarification on the volume growth for cable and wires. My sense is last quarter we did 18%. You said H1 we did 14%. The 2Q volume growth looks lower. Any reasons for that, please?
Because some of the materials could not be dispatched in exports as well as the EHV, so the finished goods inventory has increased, so it led to little lesser sale, and that's why it is showing lesser metal consumption in the sale.
But Rahul Ji, it will always be happening, actually, in quarter to quarter. As I said, that on an average basis, we will be growing at a 17% CAGR. So quarter to quarter may be up or down, but for full-year basis or half-yearly or nine-month basis, on the basis of the accumulated sale, we will be growing at a 17% CAGR.
Perfect, sir. I understand that. Thank you so much for answering the questions. I'll get back in the queue, sir.
Thank you.
Yeah. The next question is from the line of Nikunj Gala from Sundaram AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. So just on the QIP front, when we announced this greenfield CapEx, and at that point of time, the requirement was INR 2,000 crore. Even at that point of time, we were envisaging the incremental working capital requirement of the INR 600 crore for the next two years. Considering the cash flow which we will be generating, still we will be having that kind of a surplus, then what's the need to raise INR 2,000 crore at this point of time? Because the same situation was there one year ago when we announced this greenfield CapEx also, right?
At that time, the Brownfield CapEx was not there. To maintain the current year capacity addition and to maintain the sales growth of 17% in the current financial year, we need to go with the Brownfield CapEx where we had already invested more than INR 250 crore last year and in the current H1, so that money has also gone, so that was not earlier planned. Earlier was the planning only for the greenfield CapEx, and now, because of the expenditure going on, and if earlier we were having the debt-free company, so now if we are going ahead with the same plan, then the debt will be there for term loan at least for INR 600 crore, and additional working capital loan for next financial year and in financial year 2026-27 will also be there.
When the term loan and the working capital loan will be there, then the cash accrual will not be available for the future CapEx, which is in 2026-2027.
Okay. So out of this INR 2,000 crore, there will be additional CapEx requirement for which we are raising this INR 2,000 crore? Apart from the Sanand, is there a further plan?
Oh, further? Every year, we need to spend around INR 500-INR 700 crore in future so that we can maintain the growth. Because if we need to maintain a growth of 17% plus, we need to have the capacity in place well in advance. Because it takes almost two years before we started this project last year, and it will take two full years to execute or to reach at a level of sale.
Okay, sure. And just one clarification on the TV interview which MD gave in the morning. He said the comment which was made that after a few months, again, we will be looking for buyback of the shares. So that point was not clear.
No, no. Actually, the anchor was asking that, "Will you be buying of the shares or will you increase your promoters' holding by acquiring shares from the market?" I said, "We will. After a few months, we will look at it." So actually, the question was different. So we just said that we'll look at it. That's all.
Okay. Because we are raising money and then again buying back the shares. That doesn't reconcile.
No, no. Buyback is not. There is no question of buying back the shares. They were saying that, "Will you increase the promoters' holding?" That was the question. Yeah.
Okay. Thanks a lot for the clarification. Yeah. All the best.
Yeah. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Nitin Arora from Axis Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Just moving away from this QIP thing to the business side, can you talk about how's the demand, overall demand right now, given that you have such high visibility putting greenfield also? And I think you also talked about that you want to increase even the Brownfield CapEx where that QIP comes into play. So has anything, again, materially changed? I mean, whatever the growth industry is seeing is pretty strong. That's what the sense you gave it last quarter in the con call as well. But has materially something changing where you're seeing some more levers coming in, and that's the reason suddenly it's upsizing the CapEx? Just your take on that.
CapEx, we are doing which we have already planned for it. Only change in, instead of taking the debt, now we will not be taking the debt. That is the only difference. So that whatever capacity will be in place by 2026. So in 2026-27, when the full capacity will be available to sale, the working capital will be required. So if we have already taken the loan and we have adjusted our cash accrual to the CapEx, then the working capital loan will also be there at that time. So we thought that instead of taking the loan and addition of the loan in future, if we go with this kind of fundraising, so then the debt will not be there in the books. So interest cost will also be not there in the books, as it was not in the last year balance sheet.
So that was the main. So when the cash accrual will be available, we can start investing in the new plant, which will be available capacity for 2027-28 onward. Because this plant will be generating close to INR 5,000 crore capacity, which will be utilized only by 2026-27 or 2027-28 maximum. So the 17-18% growth rate is there, and the market is available for that. Our order book position is evidence for that. The domestic cable power book is already INR 2,368 crore, and export order is INR 575 crore. And the retail is increasing. So if the retail is also increasing and the domestic demand institution side is also order book is strong, only we are lagging behind with the capacity, actually.
So that's what my question was, that can you elaborate a little bit more quantitatively, let's say the end market? Obviously, you said 17% is something we are looking on a growth side, but sector-wise, because there is a thought process that after the election, the things have really slowed down, whether it's the railways, whether it's the other retail markets. So I just wanted your take how you are looking at different pockets of the market, number one, which you always talk about. So if you can talk in a little detail, segment sector-wise, if you are seeing any slowdown or how you're seeing the market. And second, I think what is your guardrail in terms of net debt to equity, where you're more comfortable as a promoter? Because see, the point is not that you are raising fund is an issue.
The point is the surprise element, because we were thinking that you will not eventually the cash flow will be there and not requirement. So if you can throw some light, what is, as a promoter, as a company, we are comfortable with that. So as an analyst, we can assume that if you do beyond that much Capex, eventually that has to come from the promoter doing QIP and all. So just your take on the net debt to equity side, your guardrails.
Yeah. Before answering by Anil G for the market demand, I will clarify that we want to run a debt-free company, as we have earlier spoken for that also. So the same guidance for future also, because we want to run the debt-free company, so that's why this fundraising option came into the picture. Now, for the demand side, Anil G will update.
See, from demand side, the solar renewable energy is having substantial demand, solar and wind both. Secondly, now the transmission sector also has a substantial demand coming up with the, I think, Government of India had announced almost INR 9 lakh crore worth of transmission evacuation plan for next six years. So those projects are coming up. Then other sectors like a lot of thermal power projects and this.
Pump power.
Pumped storage projects are there for which the cable demand is there. A lot of highway tunneling and railway tunneling projects are there. Data centers are very strong. So demand scenario is strong, and that is the reason that every company is showing good growth in the sales.
Got it. Got it. It's clear. Thank you very much. I'll come back in the queue. Thanks a lot.
Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So two questions. One is, any particular reason for the EHV weakness? Is it entirely for the exports, or how do we look at this particular subsegment in terms of FY25 and then FY27 onwards, given the new capacity?
See, sometimes this is a segment which is normally only the government utilities in the transmission sector they buy. So the little bit of variation in the demand in the tender process, in the clearances at site for the execution are always there. Order book is there, but projects are not executable because of the ROW issues and non-clearances. Overall, in the full-year period, it will improve. But sometimes, even two years back also, we saw the similar situation. And this year also, we are seeing similar situation. But overall period, it will improve.
Got it. And just with respect to your comments on various sectors, right, renewables, wind, transmission, etc., is it possible to get a sense in terms of revenue mix, KEI mix, in terms of these sectors? Possible to have that kind of a split at this point in time?
No, at this moment, it is not possible. But we can work it out tentatively. But it's very difficult to extract this so much of data because.
We are selling to EPC contractors.
We are selling to dealers, EPC contractors, and I mean, sometimes we are not recording it in our system for which sector this cable is going.
Understood. And just one more question. In terms of margins, do they vary basis whether the sale is B2G, B2B, or through distributor?
See, margins are sometimes 1% year and year. I think margins are similar in nature.
Margins are similar. Okay. Even for exports?
Full-year margin, you will see the similar kind of thing which were last year. You will not see any surprise for that, actually.
Connection.
But no, sir, I was just quizzing on the.
Your margins are as per guidance in the full six months of the April to September H1.
Yeah, yeah. No, I was not asking for that, sir. I was just trying to understand in terms of whether the margins vary, whether it is domestic or export or within domestic, whether it is B2G, B2B, or distributor sale.
Little bit 0.5% margin here and there in export and dealer-distributor versus the domestic institutional.
Got it. And just one last question, if I may. With respect to working capital, how do you see that evolving over next couple of quarters? Would this normalize immediately, or it will take a couple of quarters to normalize?
Earlier, we have guided that our receivable will go down. The last year of our receivable was 2.25 months. Before that, it was 2.4 months. So in this financial year, it will come down to 2.1 months. Inventory will be close to 2.25 months. In this H1, the inventory is a little bit higher, mainly because of the capacity increase. So the holding will also be increased for that period, actually. But it will be by the Q3, it will be again for 2.25 months, which right now is 2.4 months.
Got it. Thank you. I'll call back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to one per participant. The next question is from the line of Manoj Gori from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So a couple of questions in the opening remarks. Anil G highlighted we used EHV capacity for HT. Can we throw some light? Because if you look at EHV, margins would be relatively better versus HT. So what made us take this decision to actually manage more HT than EHV? Was it lower demand for EHV or anything in specific?
I have already mentioned that it is the inconsistency in execution of the orders because of the ROW issues and non-clearances from the utilities for executing the contract. That is why the EHV sale has been impacted. It will normalize. It is a pattern of this kind of work because sometimes because of the heavy rains, road cutting permissions were not there anywhere in the country. So how do you execute a project? We can't manufacture and dump the cable at site. So these are the issues. On a full-year basis, it will normalize. So when you are not manufacturing EHV cable on a CCV line, we have to utilize that capacity to produce similar identical product for which it is capable of. These capacities are always alternate. They can be used for any type of cable.
Right, right.
You know, last year, in the Q2, we sold high-tension power cable is INR 271 crore. In the current quarter, it went INR 431, mainly because of we utilized that capacity of EHV. With regard to the differential margin, so that is there for 4% to 5% margin differential is there. Put on a 70, 80 crore additional or 100 crore additional sale for HT, it may be 3, 4 crore margin it. That's it. But it will not be more.
Correct, sir. Thank you for the repetition of the answer. So my second question would be on the fundraising part. Sorry to follow up on that.
Thank you. Thank you.
If we look at the working capital requirement, probably, as you rightly highlighted, it would be close to around INR 600 crore. Even if we adjust that, we should be doing cash flow from operations of close to around INR 1,200-INR 1,300 crore during FY25 and 26. We are planning to raise somewhere around INR 2,000 crore. Any other plans other than this greenfield and brownfield capacity additions that we are looking at currently?
See, next year, our cash outflow for the Sanand project itself is INR 600 crore. And our cash profit is practically close to INR 700-INR 750 crore rupees. So there is no room for additional working capital requirement. So that's why once we have assessed now, because now our project is almost in the halfway point completion, and within 7-8 months, we will be start selling from there. So then we require additional working capital also.
Right. Right. Understood. And so lastly, just in continuation with the previous questions, the H1 at the yeah.
Yeah. May I request you to reach out?
Sure.
Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pulkit Patni from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Uncertain, just one question. Historically, you've said that you want to, over time, reduce the EPC business. And it's been very volatile. So could you give us a sense of how should we be looking at our EPC business going forward? Because the revenue fluctuations happen to be pretty wide in that particular segment.
In EPC, we are already reducing the sale, and in the current year, our EPC will not be more than 5%, 6% sale. We have already substantially cut down the EPC business.
No, sir, I understood that, but because there's a lot of quarterly volatility, so just wanted to understand that.
EPC, the quarterly volatility is there because of the site situation. Heavy rains were there, and there was no ROW permissions anywhere wherever the projects are going on. And these are all projects that are executed in the open areas because of distribution strengthening projects. So that is why the sale has also gone down. And we are not taking. We have to take one order in a year to maintain a section of staff. Otherwise, the old outstandings also we have to maintain the projects which we have done in the past as a warranty and also recover the payments from the old projects. So we have to maintain a certain amount of staff. And to keep them engaged, we just take one order in a year.
Sure, sir.
Normally, close to INR 250-300 crore will be the sale for a year from the EPC division. And slowly, slowly, it will get away. Once you see our collection has already reduced. Earlier, it was INR 340 crore with that. So now it has already reduced less than INR 250 crore or better level from EPC. So slowly, slowly, the business is going down, and the debtor level is also going down.
Okay. This is useful. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance Company. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Two questions. First, on the capacity side, so this probably INR 1,000 crore potential revenue capacity in Bhiwadi would help us grow into FY25. So what will drive? Do we have enough capacity to grow in FY26? That is the first question. And second question, from the balance sheet perspective, you mentioned that you would want to keep your balance sheet debt-free. If I just take ballpark 15%-16% kind of growth for next two, three years, annually INR 1,500-INR 1,700 crore kind of incremental sales would be required. And that will require incremental CapEx plus working capital of around INR 800-INR 900 crore, considering CapEx plus working capital. So now, is it fair that if the annual requirement of capital is INR 800-INR 900 crore, till that time, you won't raise further funds going ahead also?
Basically, when our OCF or operating cash flow meets your CapEx plus working capital requirement, there won't be any fundraise?
No. This fundraise, we have already explained that considering in mind to be a debt-free company, so out of the total fundraise, we will spend a major amount only on the Sanand project. With respect to the growth of 17% plus growth, we have the capacity for current year, as well as we have the capacity for the next financial year. By that time, the next financial year, the Sanand project will be fully operational, so part growth will be coming from the Sanand, and part growth will be coming from the balance capacity for the current financial year.
Just clarification. So next year's growth, part of it depends on the commissioning of the Sanand plant, correct? And that commission.
Sir, irrespective of anything, we will be growing at 17% plus. Because that kind of capacity we have already created in our existing divisions.
Okay.
For the Sanand project, for your consumption, we have taken only additional growth of INR 900 crore but. That's it from the whole project for the next financial year. The rest will be coming from the existing capacity, which we have already implemented, so that's why we are quite confident that we will be growing 17% plus for next financial year also.
Okay. Okay. I will get back in with you. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kale from Invesco. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Just one clarification I had. So you talked about project CapEx for FY25 and 26 in Sanand. Can you just help us understand what is the total CapEx, right? At the company level, what is the total CapEx that you're planning for this year and next year, including maintenance CapEx that you kind of.
This year total CapEx will be close to INR 1,100 crore plus. Next year, the total CapEx will be INR 600-700 crore, including the maintenance CapEx.
Okay. And just from my understanding, steady state, I mean, how should we look at maintenance CapEx? Is it like as a percentage of sales, typically how much?
Maintenance CapEx is close to INR 50 crore in our existing locations. Not much.
Okay. Understood. Thank you. That was my question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshit Kapadia from Elara Capital. And before we just go to the next question, just to inform all the participants in this conference, just please limit your question to one per participant. Yeah? Thank you. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a very strong result again. Just wanted to clarify, on the Sanand plant, we are spending 900 crore, and that will only be for the cables manufacturing. No wires would be manufactured, right? And secondly, within cables, what proportion would be EHV, LT, and HT? Could you give us some color on that, sir?
See, EHV and HT have similar plant and machinery, and they are always replaceable in terms of capacities. So we have not, for any segment of the region, we have never kept any of our capacity idle. So secondly, LT cable, I think later on, we can give you. You can explain now.
Yeah. For the Sanand, that total capacity will be close to INR 5,000 crore. Out of that, close to INR 1,200-1,300 crore belonging to the extra high voltage, close to INR 1,500 crore belonging to the high-tension power cable, and balance will be for low-tension power cable.
HT and EHV is fungible. That will be 2,700 crore. Let's say if you want to do completely HT or completely EHV on demand.
No, no. It's only one way around. From HT, we cannot make EHV, but from EHV, we can make HT, so basically, EHV will be limiting to INR 1,200-1,300 crore, but HT may be INR 1,500-3,000 crore.
Understood. Fair enough. Fair enough, sir. Thank you. I'm wishing you all the best.
Thank you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yes, Srinidhi. Hello? Hello?
Sir, the participant has left the queue. I'll just reconnect. Yeah. May I request Rohit from Invest Analytics Advisor LLP to go ahead?
Hello. Can I join you, sir?
Yes.
Or, you know, the margin has been impacted? Could you please provide a specific reason for this? Or are we seeing increasing?
The specific reason is because of the volatility of the metal prices, raw metal consumption increased by 0.5%-1%, which was less in the last quarter. So because of that, if it is averaged out, then it is common. So for six months, there is no impact. For quarter to quarter, it is impacted.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arshia Khosla from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, I just wanted to understand on the export side. So in the previous quarter, our export declined because of some logistical issues on the customer end. So if you could just highlight something for this quarter, have they been resolved or?
Export earlier, we have guided to maintain for 12% to 13% for the full year level. Already, we are having 11% export contribution in the H1. So we will be maintaining 12% to 13% depending on the order we are having. And it does not impact our overall sale, whether export is higher or retail is higher or the domestic institutional is higher. As long as we are growing overall 17% plus, so we are utilizing our capacity.
Okay. Thank you. And sir, I just wanted the order book bifurcation.
Pardon? You want the pending order?
Yeah. The order book bifurcation, the pending order book bifurcation.
Yeah. So the pending order is EPC division order book is INR 603 crore. Extra high voltage power cable order book is INR 300 crore. And cable from domestic institutional order book is INR 2,368 crore. And export cable order is INR 575 crore. So put together, INR 3,847 crore. And apart from this, we are having L1 in 186 crore order for extra high voltage power. So order book is very strong.
Yeah. Can you please tell me the L1 number?
I'm sorry to interrupt. Ma'am, can you please rejoin the queue?
Sure. Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kale from Invesco. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Just one follow-up. So yeah, since you're looking at the next phase of growth and you're looking at the QIP fundraise beyond FY27, FY28, just wanted to understand that this next phase that you're kind of emphasizing, would it be more like a greenfield or would it be more of a greenfield or is it a brownfield wherein you have space in Sanand and it will be kind of expansion there? It will be both, actually. Because once this plant will be operational, then automatically there is a lot of scope to improve the capacity over there by balancing of equipment. That is our past experience. So we will do that. And apart from this, we will go ahead with the future CapEx for the greenfield also. We have already bought land in Baroda, which we are in the process of acquiring.
Within six-to-eight months' time, we will be having sufficient land for the further growth.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Arora from Axis Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Sorry, sir. Just one follow-up. As you stated that we always want to be now a debt-free company, the cycle of CapEx will continue. So I just wanted to know your thoughts that if CapEx, given the first round will happen now, the brownfield and the greenfield both, and eventually we keep spending INR 400-500 crores until we decide after three, four years another greenfield. So now when you've done your math, how one should look at this debt-free argument? Because when you put your new CapEx, let's say a greenfield comes after two years where you decide to put another one, now we are confident that this will remain as a debt-free or that time also eventually the working capital will always remain, right? That is the nature of the business.
And that time also you will say that, okay, suddenly we didn't emphasize the working capital that time, but now the working capital also needs to be done. So this argument which you're giving of debt-free, what we wanted to know, this is something even a new greenfield announced after two years or three years that we are sticking to.
Sir, we have calculated the projections for next five to seven years. Accordingly, we have taken this decision. So we will not require for any further amount either from the debt or from the fundraising for the future growth of 17% plus.
Got it, sir. Thank you very much for your.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Jain from Baroda BNP Paribas, MF. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Partly has been answered in the previous question of Nitin. Just one clarification means in terms of if I look at the debt-raising part, right? FY24, we have done somewhere around INR 800 crore of free cash flow. So just wanted to understand the thought process that even at a 17% growth and even if we don't take any equity raise now, whatever the debt we required in FY25 or FY26, that can be paid off by FY27, right? Because of the cash flow generation ability.
So then the growth will be sacrificed, no? If we take the debt and we use the cash accrual for the debt repayment, then from 2027, 2028 onward, we can raise at that point of time. We can raise at that point of time. That is the only point which I'm trying to understand. So if we would like to defer that so that we can defer, then that will be along with the risk attached for the interest and repayment also, no? Because if 600 crore for term loan and the 600 crore for working capital, so the interest cost will be there. The repayment of term loan will be there. So it will impact the future investment, no?
So currently, we have a net debt of INR 69-70 odd crores kind of thing if I remove the acceptance, right?
Yeah. You see, acceptance is basically the interest-bearing because we want from Hindalco Vedanta or anywhere else, it has to be through the letter of credit. Letter of credit is bearing the interest. So then the interest cost will be there.
Okay. No, that I understood.
If we are buying through the cash, so then also there will not be any interest cost, no?
No, that I understood. That will always be there whether you raise the fund or don't raise the fund, the acceptance will bear the interest. That will be the part and parcel of the business, right? You cannot just kind of substitute that.
Last two to three years, three, four years before, acceptances was 900 crore. It has reduced. It has reduced substantially. Only in the current year, it has again increased a little bit. But otherwise, acceptances were very less to only 200 crore rupees only for import. For the domestic purchase, we were using the cash because we were having the cash in our books.
So as a management, when you take a debt, you include the acceptance also. That acceptance also be zero.
426 crore debt, that is the net debt.
Okay.
Including acceptances. In my presentation also, we have shown those numbers.
Okay. Thanks. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance Company. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity again. Sorry to be harping again on the fundraise. Just the question is being asked because the promoter holding is already below 40%. So the thought is that the working capital requirement that you mentioned for the incremental 5,000 crore of sales, however, that will be gradual. So every year, probably incremental 250-300 crore kind of working capital requirement would be there based on the 15%-17% growth number. I mean, that is not one-time requirement. It will come gradually, whereas the fundraise will be one-time front-loaded, and that would impact the ROC and balance sheet. So just wanted to understand, just like previous participants suggested, can we do it at the time when it is actually required? That is first.
And second, just on the export side, are we seeing any structural challenges since export is slow for you as well as for other players for the last few months? So just more color on the export. Thanks.
No, I think there is no structural problem in the exports. So yeah, it is taking time to pick up, but I don't see any problem going forward in the growth of exports.
Sir, with respect to fundraise, we have already explained.
Please go through something light on the first question.
Why we want to raise the fund so that we will be having the CapEx funded through this fundraise, and whatever cash accrual will be there will be available for the working capital for next financial year.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amber Singhania from Nippon India AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Just one clarification I am looking for. You mentioned roughly around 2,000 crore kind of CapEx in Sanand plant, which will give you 5,000 crore kind of revenues. That works out to be around 2.5 times asset turns. Just wanted to understand, isn't it too low compared to what we are already enjoying or what we are already delivering as well as what we are seeing in the other industry players are achieving? Isn't it too low on that?
Sir, it is mainly because of the extra high-voltage major capacity we are going to add over there, wherein heavy structure of building, heavy machines, and heavy testing equipment, and heavy cranes are there. So only in extra high-voltage power cables, our asset turn is less than 1:2. But otherwise, normally it is practically 1:3.5 nowadays. Because nowadays, the cost of creating assets as compared to what we have previously created has substantially changed. Over the last, whatever factories we built up five years back, now the construction cost has doubled. Plant and machinery has almost gone up, almost doubled. But after once the factory is built, there are always scopes to improve the production and productivity by adding some balancing machines. But that happens only once the production starts.
Because, sir, you're mentioning that even after that, 500-700 crore kind of run rate will continue. What I understand is current capacity is sufficient for 2025 and 2026. The Sanand capacity will suffice you for 2027, 2028. Despite that, we will be doing another 500 each year on 2027 and 2028 for the CapEx. So just wanted to understand, is the asking rate going forward, apart from Sanand factory as well, is?
No. Apart from Sanand factory, whatever we will spend, we will spend for the new facility, which will take another two years to implement. Because we need to spend two years before, then only we will have the capacity in place after two years, no? So whatever we will spend in 2026, 2027, and 2027, 2028, the capacity will be available in 2028, 2029. So.
Those will be already.
That's why we always prepare a plan for the next five financial years. That's how we are doing a 17% kind of growth for each five years.
Got it. And, sir, I know it is slightly premature, but can you also highlight the new capacity which we are planning after Sanand plan? That would be in the line of EHV side only, or it will be something else?
No. It will be for low voltage and medium voltage. It will not be EHV. So there, the cost of the project will not be that high that is there in Sanand.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raman K.V. from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Hello.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yeah. We can hear you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sukkant Garg from Equirus Securities Private Limited . Please go ahead.
Hi. So most of my questions have been already answered. I just wanted to know one thing, which are the major sectors that we are currently serving? And if not the customers, exactly which sector is going to be the major focus in the next quarter or the coming quarters?
See, the biggest sector will be energy sectors, especially solar, wind, or other power generation sectors, transmission and distribution sector in the power, and data centers, but this is just tentative. Our focus remains on every sector wherever the demand is there, because we have channel partners. We have sales team everywhere, so whatever opportunities are there, all opportunities are tapped. It is not a question of that we just focus on because we are manufacturing cables for all sectors, but the major demand drivers will be solar, wind, or energy sector, basically.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this will be the last question that will be from the line of Vaibhav Jain from independent investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, yes, sir.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Just new to analyzing your company and the business. Just wanted some clarification on channel finance and acceptances. What kind of debt is this? What kind of cost of debt? And what are some of the focus?
So in the channel finance, the cost is borne by the dealer itself, and we are giving them the cash discount. In the case of acceptances, the interest rate is close to 7%-8% per annum.
Okay, sir. Thank you. Most of my other questions have been answered.
Thank you.
As that was the last question, I'll now hand over the conference to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for having interaction with us on this conference call. If you still have any further questions, you can reach out to us. Thank you very much. Look forward to working together. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Monarch Networth Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.