KEI Industries Limited (BOM:517569)
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4,813.65
-25.15 (-0.52%)
At close: Apr 24, 2026
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Q2 21/22

Oct 28, 2021

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 FY 2022 Earnings Conference Call of KEI Industries Limited, hosted by Monarch Networth Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then Zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anubhav Rawat from Monarch Networth Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Anubhav Rawat
Equity Research Analyst, Monarch Networth Capital

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. I hope everyone is safe and healthy. We are pleased to host the senior management team of KEI Industries today, and we have with us Mr. Anil Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director of the company, and Mr. Rajeev Gupta, CFO of the company. Let us start this call with management's initial comments about the results, and then we can take your questions. Over to you, Anil, sir.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Yeah. Thank you very much. Good afternoon. I welcome you all to our KEI's Q2 results conference call. I'll give a brief about the performance of the company in Q2 and the first half of financial year 2021-22. Net sales in Q2 of this FY 2022 is INR 1,353.43 crore against INR 1,036.94 crore last year, so the growth achieved is 30.52%. Company has achieved highest ever quarterly sales in this quarter, if we compare it with our past history. EBITDA in this quarter is INR 148.83 crore against 121.76 crore. The growth in EBITDA is 22.23%. EBITDA/net sales margin is 11%.

As against 11.74% in the same period previous year. EBITDA margin declined mainly because of some expenses normalized to pre-CoV level and sharp fluctuations in the input cost. Profit after tax this quarter is INR 91.98 crore against INR 68.06 crore in the same quarter previous year. Growth in profit after tax is 35.15%. Profit after tax/net sales margin has improved to 6.8% versus 6.56% last year same period. The domestic institutional cable sale of high-tension and low-tension cable is INR 420 crore against 307 crore, so the growth is approximately 37%.

Domestic institutional cable sales of extra high voltage cable is INR 154 crore in the Q2 against INR 102 crore in the previous year same period. The growth is approximately 51%. Export sale in this quarter is INR 129 crore, in which cable INR 86 crore, EPC INR 18 crore and stainless steel wire INR 25 crore against INR 160 crore last year. The decline is approximately 19%, mainly because of sales to Dangote Petroleum Refinery last year against a very large order of INR 450 crore. The sales to Dangote in the same period was INR 41 crore. The total institutional cable institutional sale contributed approximately 49% in the Q2 against 52% in the same period last year.

Sales through dealer network, dealer/distribution network, achieved is INR 580 crore in this quarter against INR 348 crore in the same period last year. The growth achieved is approximately 67%. From the beginning of the year 2021, company has been working on strengthening its dealer network and has expanded its marketing network by adding around 150 additional sales people from electrical and FMEG background at different levels on pan-India basis. This has resulted into good growth in the dealer network and this segment. The total active working dealers of the company as on September 30th, 2021 was approximately 1,700. The sales through dealer network contributed 43% in Q2 against 34% contributed last year in the same period.

The sales of EPC division, EPC sale other than cable is INR 92 crore as against INR 133 crore. The decline is approximately 31% in the Q2. Out of that, stainless steel wire sale in Q2 of financial year 2021, 2022 is INR 52 crore against INR 33 crore in the same period last year. The growth is approximately 54%. Now, the net sales in the first half of 2021, first six months, H1, achieved is 2,371 crore against INR 1,782 crore achieved last year. The growth in net sales in the first half is overall, six months is 33%. EBITDA growth in the first half is 28%, 28.4% compared to last year.

EBITDA/net sales margin is 11.19% as against 11.59% in the same period last year. Profit after tax in the first half is INR 159 crore against INR 107 crore in the last year. The growth in the profit after tax is 48.28%. The net profit margin over net sales has improved to 6.71% versus 6.02% last year. The sales of domestic institutional cable sale in the first half, the growth achieved is 60%. In the extra high voltage cable sales in the first half is INR 183 crore in the first half against INR 20 crore achieved in the previous year same period.

We had some pending dispatches in the Q1s, which were accepted in the Q2 in this year. Export sale in the first half is INR 222 crore against INR 343 crore. The decline is approximately 35%. Again, the reason explained through a large sales of INR 137 crore done to Dangote Oil Refinery last year in the first half of the last financial year. The total institutional cable sale contributed 49% in the first half against last year same period, 57%. The sales through dealer network contributed 41% against 30% last year. The sales for six months through dealer network is INR 967 crore against INR 534 crore.

The growth is approximately 81% in the first half of this financial year. Similarly, the EPC sale in the first half is INR 178 crore against INR 211 crore. Decline is approximately 16%. This is in line with our previous guidance to lower EPC business and restrict it to 10% to 12% of the total revenue. Out of the total sales of EPC, the sale of the extra high voltage cable execution portion is INR 55 crore. Stainless steel wire sale in the first half of the financial year 2021-22 is INR 100 crore against INR 54 crore. The growth is approximately 83% during the first half in stainless steel wire business.

The current pending order book position is overall INR 3,296 crore, out of which INR 1,077 crore is EPC orders. In this, INR 663 crore are export EPC, which are World Bank and ADB funded projects in Nepal and Gambia in Africa. The pending order position of extra high voltage cable and its execution portion is INR 532 crore. Domestic orders against domestic customers is INR 1,525 crore and export orders pending are INR 162 crore of the cables. The company's credit rating from ICRA, CARE and India Ratings is AA- for long-term bank facilities and A1+ for short-term bank facilities.

The book value per equity share of the company is INR 215.16 as on September 30th, 2021, as against INR 197.38 as on March 31st, 2021. The total borrowing including channel finance of INR 144 crore as on September 30th. The total borrowing including channel finance is INR 340 crore, and cash and bank balances of INR 64 crore as against borrowing of INR 305 crore, and cash and bank balances of INR 231 crore as on March 31st, 2021. Acceptance that means creditors against letter of credit as on September 30th is INR 128 crore as against INR 323 crore as on March 31st, 2021.

The net debt including acceptance is almost at par at INR 405 crore as against INR 408 crore as on March 31st, 2021. It was INR 922 crore as on March 31st, 2020. During the first half of financial year 2021/2022, finance costs has decreased to INR 21.36 crore as against INR 31.74 crore in the previous year same period. Percentage of financial charges on net sales has decreased to 0.9% of the net sales from 1.78% a year ago. The company has used operating cash flows for cash purchases, resulting into reduction of trade payables acceptances substantially by INR 195 crore as compared to March 2021, which has further reduced finance cost during the first half.

Though it may impact certain financial ratios like ROCE, return on capital employed and working capital cycle, but it has benefited the company in the form of reduction in the finance cost. Future outlook. Our strategy is to increase continuously retail sale and downsizing EPC business is working well. In future, within two years' time, our retail sale will reach at 50% of the total sales of the company, with annual growth of 30% to 35% per annum in retail business, which is evident from H1 first half results of financial year 2022. The retail business offers superior growth prospects with better margins and lower working capital requirements.

The capacity utilized during first half of 2021/2022 is 67% in cable division, 62% in house wire division, and nearly 100% in stainless steel wire division. The company has already capacity in place to achieve growth for the next financial year. The company is in process to expand the capacity by setting up a greenfield project for LT, HT and EHV voltage cable with an investment of INR 700 to 800 crore, which will be incurred in three to four years' time to maintain 17% to 18% CAGR growth for the coming years. Our last 15 years CAGR is 15%, and in last five years, the company has achieved a CAGR of 20%, except financial year 2020/2021.

Overall, company is targeting more than 25% growth in the current financial year with strong order book in hand and good demand from the government and private CapEx. Further, the company is also exploring various options for unique opportunities to launch some additional FMEG products at appropriate time, and probably at the end of financial year 2022, we'll be able to give some more concrete details on FMEG later. The industry outlooks and demand drivers. We have seen strong demand coming from government CapEx as well as private CapEx. Broad-based growth across all categories and sectors. We have seen good upside in real estate of projects and demand from residential sector in the metro cities, as well as the tier two, B and tier C cities.

CapEx in industrial sector continues a good demand from solar power projects and oil and gas sector, refinery expansions, fuel upgradation and capacity upgradation projects. Lot of investment is coming up in tunneling and tunnel ventilation projects along with railway for railways as well as highway, which offers a good opportunity for the supply of cables to these projects. Underground cabling projects of transmission and distribution in metro cities and tier B cities. Conversion of overhead cable and overhead lines into underground cabling. Metro rail projects. Bullet train projects being executed between Mumbai and Ahmedabad. Modernization of railway stations. Smart city projects. Announced modernization of new airports, ports, et cetera. Construction of highway resulting into elimination of overhead network into underground cabling. Steel industry expansion and the expansions in other industrial sectors.

This is a broad outlook and I would now invite you if you have any questions. We'll be glad to answer. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the Q&A session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the dialpad. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from InCred Capital. Please go ahead.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Hi, sir. Good afternoon, and congratulations for a very good set of numbers given the circumstances. I have three quick questions. You know, firstly, on the house wire, the sale was INR 400 crore. I think that beat your own guidance as well as, you know, our estimate as well. First question on that, is this a normal quarterly run rate going forward, or this had some element of pent-up demand for Q1? Obviously, second half generally is better than first half for cable and wire companies. So what kind of run rate are we looking for house wire? That's my first question.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No. No doubt there is a pent-up demand, but the run rate will improve from here. I mean, we expect an improvement from this number in the coming months.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

For full year, what kind of numbers we should look at for house wire?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

As we have earlier guided that in the house wire segment, the growth for this year will be close to 2x the sales we are planning to do. Already, we are on the path and as per we have engaged the consultant for guiding us for the policy and making strategy. We are taking the help of the digitalization. We have now developed an app wherein all the retailers, electricians and distributors are on that page. We are able to guide them where they are lagging behind so that the whole centralized monitoring is going on while we are doing the dealer sales of house wire. That project is going on.

Whereas our focus is to increase the number of distributors all across the country, and each distributor has to increase the number of retailers in their folds. We are also going to engage more and more electricians and architects because they are influential.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

To specifically answer your questions, I expect a growth of around 50% to 60% in this financial year as compared to last financial year.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Got it, sir. Secondly, on the gross margins, you know, obviously they were down, but you maintained EBITDA margins quite decently. Given Havells and Polycab both reported sub-optimal cable and wire margins, what was your strategy in the Q2? Because what we understood was copper was easier to pass through because that's a very established method, but other metals like steel, aluminum, as well as PVC was very tough. What really happened in terms of price hikes, and how did you manage that?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Better, you know, purchase management and inventory management, linking to the order booking.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Okay. Got it. Lastly, on the CapEx, first half looks like you just spent INR 22 crore. My sense was, you know, this was the first year to basically start our large CapEx. Could you just guide, please, for, you know, the current year and next year CapEx? I think some delay of this year will be caught up in next year. Any sense on that? Thank you.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

We are in the process of acquiring the land because we are buying the agricultural land, so little bit small hiccups are there. Now it is being resolved within this quarter itself. We are going to spend around, as we have earlier guided also, INR 200 crore per annum we will be investing. In that case, once we got the land, the major investment will start over there in land, building, plant, machinery, et cetera.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

For this year, it looks like the CapEx is going to be below INR 100 crore. The next year it will be higher?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Below INR 100 crore. Definitely it will be below INR 100 crore now because it will be land-

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Right.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

The construction will start.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Right. Next year we should assume INR 200 to INR 250 or how is it?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Maybe close to INR 250 crore next year.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Okay, sir. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you so much. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirav Sheth from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

Yeah, thank you for opportunity, sir. Naval Seth from Emkay. Few questions on revenue, like, you know, EHV segment, if I look at on first half basis because last quarter had-

Operator

Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Naval, but your voice is coming too low, sir. Can you please check?

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

Yes. Now it is better?

Operator

Yes.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yeah.

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

My question, sir, first question is on EHV segment. On first half basis, if I look at the number on an average is lower than pre-COVID number or last year also. What kind of growth you are expecting in H2 in EHV? Second, on stainless steel, you're already at 100% capacity utilization and strong numbers in H1. Is this run rate sustainable, or there were some one-off orders in first half which led to this kind of run rate?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

First of all, stainless steel wire, this run rate is absolutely maintainable. Even I think if we have more capacity, we can sell as much as we can produce. We are adding some additional capacity of 15% in the same plant by debottlenecking . The process is on, and I think within next one to two months, that capacity will come. The growth will further come in this division in the Q4. So far as EHV is concerned, you know, because of a lot of turbulence in the commodity cycles, a lot of customers have not finalized orders during the Q2.

We first or Q2, a lot of orders are under discussion and, I think in the Q1 in commentary I had mentioned that we were not able to dispatch lot of cables because of the non-clearance from the customer. That were dispatched in the Q2, and hence the 51% growth has come in the Q2. We hope that some more orders are in the pipeline and which will be materialized. Overall growth in this segment looks to be 10% to 15% only in the whole year.

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

Sure. Thirdly, on volume growth, if you can bifurcate in, house wires or LT cables. How has been the trend? Because LT cable, I believe, the volumes are still under pressure. By when we are expecting things to normalize?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

See, if we talk of only house wire sale, then close to 16% to 17% in first half was the volume growth, through the volume growth out of the total incremental sale. If we talk of the whole company as a whole, on the basis of the production we did, we have grown close to 24% in terms of volume. Because whatever production we had made, which will be going into the Q3, because now our run rate of per month sale has increased. That's why little bit finished goods inventory has got also increased. This is the sign wherein we are consuming the material more as compared to last year. Overall volume growth is close to 24%.

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

Understood. Sir, last question on retention money. Any update you want to share, what you have stated that INR 150 crores will be recovered this year. Anything on that incremental.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yeah.

Nirav Sheth
CEO of Institutional Equities, Emkay Global Financial Services

Understood. Thank you so much and wish you all the best. I'll come back in the queue.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lavina Quadros from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Yeah, hi. Thanks, sir, for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers. Two questions. One is, again, the standard. What is the interest rate breakup for, across, I mean, different heads for the quarter?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yeah, Lavina, you can note down. In this quarter, our term loan interest is only INR 0.5 crore and working capital interest is only INR 2.27 crore and the other interest on LC et cetera, INR 1.81 crore. The total working capital interest is INR 4.08 crore. We have the LC interest is very nominal, just only INR 5 lakh rupee. The bank charges hardly close to INR 1.67 crore and the processing fee of the bank is close to INR 3.5 crore. Overall is INR 9.95 crore is the interest cost.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Right. Sir, just to understand your working capital, when I look at it, your current liabilities has come down. That's because you all are choosing to pay cash, right?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Reduce interest. I'm just trying to understand that.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

That's the only reason. There is nothing else there, right?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

The only reason because we are getting the direct benefit by way of the interest saving, which is already evident from the balance sheet itself.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Okay, you're setting that up. Sir, just to understand if-

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

But the,

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Sorry.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

the negative side of this is, you must be seeing the operating cash flow is negative because we have paid extra to the creditors actually.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Yes, sir. That's the reason I asked. Basically that is the reason.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Got it. Sir, the other thing is I know on retail you'll have mentioned that 50% to 60% is the outlook for the full year. Just wanted to clarify again, there's nothing one-off in this quarter on the revenue line, right? Therefore this run rate should continue to improve like you're saying.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Coming quarters, the revenue will be again up from this quarter. That I can say.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

You think it's the market size growing or it's you all gaining share, if you had to put your finger on it?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Market is growing, demand is increasing. Our retail dealer distributor network is increasing because as you know, we are having the different vertical of the sales, like in export sale is increasing, retail is increasing, our other low tension, high tension power cable sale is increasing. Some of growth is coming from the volume and some growth is coming from the value. Both has contributed.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Got it. Sir, last question. On your EPC side of the business, you'll have still done reasonable numbers in this quarter. On a full year it'll possibly be INR 7 billion to INR 8 billion you think it ends this year at?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Our total sale of EPC was like last year. Other than the extra high voltage EPC close to INR 500 crore, it will be below INR 500 crore this year also.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Right.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Because we have not booked any new orders in last two years in EPC side, except one order from Gambia, which is a World Bank aided project.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Got it. Thank you.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

We are doing only the profitable business. That's it.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Having complete price variation on all elements of the project, including steel, cables, everything.

Lavina Quadros
Senior VP of Equity Research, Jefferies India

Understood. Thank you so much. Okay.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Charanjit Singh from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Yeah. Hello sir, am I audible?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes, yes, Charanjit.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Sir, first of all, congratulations on good set of numbers in a very tough environment. My first question is, you know, in terms of the competitive intensity from smaller players, how you are seeing that in this quarter, you know, unorganized versus organized? In terms of, you know, our market share, will you be able to share some numbers? That's my first question.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

See, the unorganized sector has already reducing because of their personal issues like working capital availability and the capital they are not having, and also the margin benefit they are not having. Because of those, additional demand is coming to the top companies, number one, and they are losing market share by 2% to 3%. They have already reduced to 27% as compared to 30%. By end of this year, they will come out to 25% market share of all the unorganized sector in the house wire segment. Hello, Charanjit .

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay. Yeah. I got that. On the, this is, you know, you are talking only about the house wire or both, house wires and cables?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

In cable, mainly the organized player, because there is quality issues and the inspection issues. All the companies, those who are having in the range of INR 200 crore to INR 600 crore, they are also competing. Since they are also struggling with the working capital issues and the margin money issues, the additional demand we are getting.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay, sir. From the current, you know, capacity utilization perspective, can you tell us like what are the capacity utilizations right now, across different plants and?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Current capacity utilization in the cable segment is close to 67%. In the case of house wire, that is 62% because we have added the capacity one and a half year before. Then stainless steel wire division, almost we are operating at 100%.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay, sir. Now, you know, Anil also talked about that the overall outlook is extremely positive, and we could see a, you know, maybe a longer cycle in terms of how the infrastructure overall things are picking up. Would you be able to give us more from a clear perspective, how KEI looks itself, you know, in terms of one is the top line and how our margin profile can change over the years as we scale up the top? Additionally, you know, the retail thing in terms of house wires, where we are trying to scale up in a big way, how that contribution will be in the next three years time frame? Yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

I think we have already given you know some guidance about that we expect retail business to grow by 30% to 35% year-on-year because our complete focus is there on this I'm talking of house wires and our flex wire, house wire, flexibles and cables through retail network. Outlook looks strong. I think that a good amount of CapEx is coming up all over the country, and it will further you know expand from government as well as private CapEx, and including the solar power projects.

We are confident that a growth of 18% to 20% or 17% to 18% what we are you know projecting for coming financial year is feasible, and retail growth of 30% to 35% because the focus is there. This year, because of the lower base last year, we are expected to grow overall 25% or maybe even 30%, because of the lower base of the last year.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay, sir. Sir, on the retail side of the business, the house wire, you know, if you can just give us an update in terms of the addition of manpower or the distributors what we have added in this quarter, and for the second half, what is your plans further on the house wire section? Yeah, that's my last question.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

We have already mentioned that we have added close to 150 salespeople all over India, you know, for the retail network in the company. Our total dealer numbers are 1700. More the number may not have increased, but our whole aim is to strengthen and increase the output from the already existing dealers. Means we are trying to increase their volumes. Each and every dealer must grow by 50% to 70%. That is the endeavor what we are doing. Our teams are helping them in doing secondary sale and other tertiary sale, and then the business development process, including reaching out to the influencers, which may include architects or consultants or the electricians in the lower segment.

This is the whole process we are, you know, undergoing at the moment. Similarly, there's intense training of the sales staff towards that direction.

Charanjit Singh
Assistant Vice President of Equity Team, DSP Mutual Fund

Okay. That's from my side. Thanks a lot for taking the questions.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhita from SiMPL. Please go ahead.

Speaker 15

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Hello?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Yeah, yeah. Please go ahead.

Speaker 15

Yeah. Just in case of retail wiring, if you can just further dwell on our understanding since you had strong, you know, growth outlook of this, how much would you attribute this 30% to 35% targeted growth on, let's say, stronger industry demand, market share gains from unorganized or let's say from other leaders in this category? Also, if you can just throw some more light on what exactly, you know, when we say we are acquiring market share even with from some organized players, what is the value proposition here largely? Is price we are competing on, or is it something else? So if you could just elaborate on some soft points here.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Definitely there is an increase in the market demand. Some portion will come from there and some growth we are taking from the shifting from unorganized to organized sector and a little bit of market share from the existing, you know, large players, the shifting of market share. It is difficult to quantify that, what growth is coming from where because that minute data, micro data is not available at the moment.

Speaker 15

Correct.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

We have increased the reach because we have added the number of people, almost 150 people on the ground all across the country. Wherever we were not present or our manpower was not sufficient, having the time to handle, because earlier they were having only five cities, seven cities, now they are concentrating more on one city or two city. These kind of penetration and the time they are giving to the secondary market, so it is improving the sales.

Speaker 15

Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Kumar from Alpha Capital. Please go ahead.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

Hello, sir. Congrats for a very good set of numbers. My first question would be, we have done really well on managing the cost in terms of margins this quarter compared to our peers. Any guidance on how second half is gonna be because the copper prices are still quite volatile.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

You see our margin earlier also basically maintained between 10.5% to 11.5%. We will be in the same range actually, because we don't have much margin, so that's why we are operating in a very tight situation. We have the market like I said export, extra high voltage cable, little bit EPC, and low tension and high tension power cable and dealer distributor sales. Each and every segment we are taking care, so the same kind of impact will be there.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

For our input cost volatility is there, we are managing it well by, you know, I mean, taking you know good position at metals and other raw materials also in terms of vis-a-vis our orders booked. We have not been hit by any, you know, input cost volatility so far.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

Okay. Sir, next question would be, there has been decent level of promoter selling in the last three months. Any reason for that and what can we expect in terms of?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Whatever selling was there was close to 20 lakh shares, but he want to sell because he want to use for the personal loans, personal use. He want to buy the house in Delhi, so he has bought also.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

That money has been used for buying a residential property for our use.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

No more plans to selling?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

No, no.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No, no. None.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

Sure. Got it, sir. Sir, on Dangote, there was nothing done in the last half of last year. Am I right on that? Second half there was nothing on Dangote.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

There was nothing.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

Okay, sir. Sir, overall guidance for second half would be, as in we have done 30% for the first half, and we were used to guiding 18%, 20% long term. Second half would be equally strong in terms of 30% or how should we look at it?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

We see as our overall guidance earlier was the 20% growth. Now our guidance is growth more than 25%.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Actually, we are very conservative in giving guidance. We have always performed better than the guidance.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

whatever extra will be there, extra will be there.

Ankit Kumar
Analyst, Alpha Capital

Sure, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sameer Patel from AUM Finance. Please go ahead.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

Hello.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

Sir, can you just highlight on the working capital cycle as in because our inventory has increased by INR 150 crores that I can understand with the increased sales, but our payables have also reduced by around INR 150 crores. What is currently happening?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

The payable has reduced because of the lowering of the interest cost. Whatever cash we were having, so we have utilized for cash purchase and reducing the creditors. There we have saved the interest cost.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

Okay.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

As far as inventory finished goods has increased because of the higher valuation as well as the higher run rate now. Sometimes in a single order, inspection got delayed, so it will be dispatched in the next month. These are the normal things actually.

Operator

Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Sameer Patel, there is an echo which is coming from your line.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

What is your target on number of days for the working capital cycle?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Number of days for the inventory is close to 2.25 months, and for the receivable close to three months. Already it has reached to 3.42 months. It will further come down to three months by end of this year.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

Okay. On the payable end?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Payable because we are having the cash, so we are saving the interest cost. That's why we are paying to payable. Otherwise, in the earlier we were having the three months payable. Now is only 1.25 months payable.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

That means that our working capital cycle will increase to almost four months motamoti by the year end. That is your-

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

That cycle to [Non-English content] Because if we want to pay creditors then it is working capital cycle looks like high. If we don't want to pay creditors then working capital cycle will go down to 2.8 months or maybe less than that. Because that is a creditor which is a available period is three months. We are paying because we are getting extra benefit.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

Okay, okay. Sir, currently the term loan that we have, what is the interest percentage on that?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

It is on close to 6%. Though it's a ECB loan. Close to INR 32 crore is outstanding term loan.

Sameer Patel
Analyst, AUM Finance

[Non-English content] . Okay, okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from InCred Capital. Please go ahead.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. Sir, just couple of questions. One is debtor balance as you highlighted it's a bit higher. Is it related to that extra EHV order dispatch, or is it something else?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

No, no. Debtor holding is getting down. Earlier it was 3.87 months. [Non-English content] By end of this year, it will go down to three months level only.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

I understand. I was referring to the absolute number INR 31,380 crores.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Depend on holding, na, because [Non-English content]

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Okay, got it. Lastly, you said your current capacity is enough to cover fiscal 2023 growth. Is that correct?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes, yes. Financial year 2022/2023, we will be having the capacity close to achieve the top line of INR 6,200 crore plus.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you so much. Best wishes for Diwali.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Thank you, Rahul.

Rahul Agarwal
Deputy Head of Institutional Equity Research, InCred Capital

Thank you.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Happy Diwali to you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajeev Mehra from Phantom Wealth. Please go ahead.

Rajeev Mehra
Analyst, Phantom Wealth

Yeah, hello, sir. Congrats on a good set of numbers. Sir, obviously, you've spoken, touched upon the margins. I just wanted to understand the sustainability of margins going ahead, should be in the range of 10.5% to 11%, as you mentioned. Is that correct?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes, yes. Normally, since we have crossed the bridge of 11%, so hopefully we will be targeting 11%.

Rajeev Mehra
Analyst, Phantom Wealth

Okay. Sir, if you could just touch upon your export business, going ahead, what kind of traction are we seeing there? What could be the contribution going ahead in the next, say, financial year or maybe in the next coming couple of years. Also in your opening remarks, you touched upon the launching of a couple of products on the FMEG side. If you could just touch upon your CapEx plan or how much spending have you done on that segment, and what could be the contribution going ahead in the next couple of years from this side?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

On the export front, Anil has a specific focus, and we will be maintaining close to 10% to 12% export. Because out of our sales, our run rate will be close to INR 500 crore this year, and next year will be more than INR 600 crore export. With regards to FMEG, we are in the planning stage and just we are waiting to settle down our house wire business to grow 100% this year so that we will be on the path of 50% contribution through the dealer distributor business of the whole company. We are in the process and hopefully by end of this quarter or maybe in the Q4 call, we will be giving you the certain guidelines for which product we are going ahead.

Definitely we will be going ahead because all the manpower which we have taken has come from the various backgrounds of FMEG.

Rajeev Mehra
Analyst, Phantom Wealth

Awesome.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

With regards to CapEx for the new FMEG product in the initial two to three years, it will be through outsourcing model only. Whatever CapEx we will be doing, we will be doing only for our existing product range of cable.

Rajeev Mehra
Analyst, Phantom Wealth

Fair enough, sir. Thank you very much, sir, and Happy Diwali.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manoj from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.

Speaker 14

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, you already mentioned about the support to dealers that you have been offering. Can you elaborate, more like what is the exact role that you are providing to your dealers other than engagement with the influencers? What are the other kind of support that you are offering?

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

The support in terms of the incentive to the electrician and incentive to the retailer directly so that we can map the sales.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No, no. In the support we are providing to the dealers by way of through our business development team, so that we are helping them to sell, to create demand for them in their area by approaching them, by mapping the live projects, residential projects or whatever live projects where they aim to sell, and then helping them in tertiary sales, reaching out to influencers like architects or consultants or you know electricians. This is the help we can provide to them.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Yes, sir. To more retailers also, because each distributor will have the more retailers.

Speaker 14

Right. Right. Understood. Secondly, you have been guiding and you have always outperformed your guidance and you have been guiding for the sustainable growth. Currently, obviously, there seems to be some pressure on volumes from the cable side. Whereas post-COVID, if you look at, demand for volumes have definitely picked up and growth has been pretty robust for the industry as a whole. How do you look at the cable demand with regards to volume in the coming times, and what do you think would be the key triggers over there?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

We have already mentioned that key triggers are, you know, the CapEx outlay of government and private CapEx. Actually, demand will always come from the CapEx in the infrastructure, in the industry, new industries, in the new real estate, buildings, construction sector. The demand will always come. They are the demand drivers. I think in my initial commentary, I mentioned the demand drivers and the business outlook.

Speaker 14

Right. No, I do understand that. With regards to volumes, obviously even in the last year, we were expecting some demand to pick up. Not KEI in specific, but the industry as a whole, from Q4. I was just trying to understand on that.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

It is for the industry as a whole. The demand pickup,

Speaker 14

Yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Benefits everybody, not only KEI.

Speaker 14

Right. You did mention on the gross margin pressure that obviously because of the RM volatility, there was some sequential impact on gross margin. Would you attribute the total impact on sequential basis purely on the basis of volatility or there has been some channel hesitancy as well with regards to pricing?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Yeah.

Speaker 14

This is my last question.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

There are mixed reasons. The volatility of the prices as well as, when the prices goes up very high, definitely there is some deferment of purchases by the customers. Eventually when the prices settles down in, say, 15 days or a month's time, that purchase comes back because they cannot indefinitely, you know, delay their purchases.

Speaker 14

Right. Understood. Thanks a lot, sir, and I wish you all the best for the coming quarters.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinivasan Mandali from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is on this government's recent scheme on power distribution sector, where they plan to spend about INR 3 lakh crore. A lot of it goes in cables and high voltage distribution infrastructure. Just wanted to know your perspective, does that really improve the volume growth outlook for the power cable segment? And does it improve the visibility as well, or it's just the packaging of the existing demand that anyways come?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

See, all these packages of INR 300,000 crore that the government is giving basically definitely improves the demand of electrical products for these power utilities indirectly. What happens is that this money is given to them for cleaning up their balance sheets so that they become eligible for fresh borrowing. Because all these utilities are incurring losses due to lower tariffs than their cost or whatever technical and commercial losses they incur due to the tariffs or to the theft et cetera of electricity. Year on year this government keeps on giving them new packages to clean up their balance sheets. When they clean up they need CapEx. They come up with the fresh CapEx.

They've again become eligible for further loans from Power Finance Corporation, REC or banks.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Okay.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

They are able to pay back to the generating companies for the power purchase. Now everywhere, ultimately the money rotates back

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Okay.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

in some form or the other.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Yeah. Sir, this time it sounded like it is very project specific, and they want to spend it only on two areas. One is like, of course, smart metering and another is they typically talk about cabling. I was just wondering, is it different or it's like UDAY 1.0 where balance sheet is getting improved? Yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No, I don't have much detail about the smart metering. I am aware.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Sure.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Cabling is definitely well there because it is only through cables that they can eliminate the theft.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Reduce the technical losses in the transmission.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Exactly, yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

The purpose of the project is to reduce the technical and commercial losses and improve the metering.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Fair enough, sir. Sir, I just want to know how large is the solar cable business for KEI, and how large is this overall solar cable industry in India? Sir, related second question is, you, in the past you have highlighted that how utility solar power plant increases demand for cable business because evacuation of power happens through cables as against overhead transmission. I just wanted to know how much percentage of the cases actually do the evacuation of power happens through cables and how much happens through overhead transmission.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

This industry is now has become very big, and you must have seen that even Reliance Industries and Adani are coming up in a very big way in manufacturing of solar panels and battery storage systems. As on now, the yearly targets are 20,000 to 25,000 MW additional capacity in the solar, I mean, solar power generation. So far the these developers were mainly dependent on imports from China. Now, indigenous capacities are coming up, which will give more stability to this sector in times to come.

So far as cable demand in these projects is concerned, I think there is roughly 6% to 8% of the, you know, CapEx goes into cables because the entire creation of the power has been done through 33 kV cables and then connected to the grid and for the transmission.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Sir, how large would it be for KEI already this business in terms of percentage?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

KEI is already, I think, exact numbers I don't, I can't, I have no quantification at the moment, but at least INR 250 crore to INR 300 crore worth of cables are going into solar business directly or indirectly through the developer.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Right. Fair enough. Sir, like, in the past, sir, company did collaborated with the Swiss company to get the capabilities on EHV side. I was just wondering, are such partnerships in the works to build capabilities on the offshore wind power evacuation, cables? Because there I think you need submersible cables. Just wondering. I know it's not an immediate demand in market, but in a few years out, you would have demand for these. Just wondering, are plans there to develop these cables?

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No. At present, no. We also are looking for opportunities. Whenever the good demand comes, we will also try to have that.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Right. Fair enough. Just last one, sir, if I may. Just want to understand this EHV cable. Is it fair to understand that the entire EHV cable, direct sales as well as through EPC, it goes to the distribution utilities, right? Eventual customer is distribution utilities, right? In most of-

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

No. Extra high voltage cables are always sold to transmission utilities because these cables are used for underground transmission of bulk power.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Okay.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

The transmission utilities, the transmission companies in various states and the central sector transmission company like Power Grid Corporation of India, they buy it, they transmit the cables in the through these, to the distribution companies. It is

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Right. Yeah.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

on a distribution product.

Srinivasan Mandali
Quality Analyst, HSBC

Fair enough. Thank you, sir, for answering my question and all the very best.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this will be the last question for today, which is from the line of Amit Mahawar from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.

Amit Mahawar
Associate Director, Edelweiss Securities

Hello, Anil, Rajeev. Congratulations on great retail ramp-up and consistency. I only have one question. Typically it seems the dealer network and the ground presence is more Eastern-focused. You can correct me if I'm wrong or can you give some details of, you know, which regions have driven the super growth of more than 50% in standard house wire retail? Thank you.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

I think all regions across the country have given this growth, but our I mean strongest regions are

Amit Mahawar
Associate Director, Edelweiss Securities

Northern

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Northern region, North and Eastern India, and even West is also performing very well. We are also ramping up the marketing positions in South India. They have also done decently well and they will also come up to the level within next three to four months.

Amit Mahawar
Associate Director, Edelweiss Securities

Okay. That's helpful, sir. Thank you and good luck for the future growth.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as this was the last question for today, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Anil Gupta
Chairman and Managing Director, KEI Industries

I thank you all our investors who have joined this conference call. I wish all of you a very happy and prosperous Diwali and the New Year, a new Samvat. Thank you very much. If you still have any further questions, you can reach out to us. Thank you.

Rajeev Gupta
CFO, KEI Industries

Thank you very much, and wish you all happy Diwali.

Operator

Thank you. On behalf of KEI Industries and Monarch Networth Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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