Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the NMDC Limited Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call hosted by Dolat Capital Market Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Suman Kumar from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Shruti. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Today we have with us Mr. Amitava Mukherjee, the Chairman and Managing Director of NMDC Limited. Without further ado, I'll hand over to you, sir, for your opening comments, and then we can open the floor for questions. Over to you, sir.
Right. Thank you, Suman. These are, I think, our performance despite the challenges in FY 2024 has been rather commendable. We did lose around 43 or 44 days of production due to industrial issues, but we did, in the other days, much more than that we have done previously. And despite all the challenges, our numbers speak for themselves. We have a growth in PAT on an annual or year-on-year 12-month basis of around 19%, and PBT, after exceptional item, of around 16%, which is indeed commendable. Our production was marginally lower, by about one million ton, and sales did pick up at the end. But we did manage to weather the rough storm and overcome that. And as we say, this is the first year in the block of four to five years where we plan to take NMDC from 50 million ton, approximately, to about 100 million ton.
In that way, we are progressing. We have seen that the CapEx was the highest this year, which was INR 3,700 crores, highest ever. We plan to continue much higher CapExes so that we are able to not only execute but also commission all the capacity-building projects that we have. A lot of them have already been sanctioned. Some of them have been already tendered out, and execution has started. Some of them would be tendered out by this end of this year so that in the next three years, we are able to complete all our projects and take NMDC from around 50 million ton to around 100 million ton in the next few years. This year, financials were good, but coming to April, I think we have shown again record production. May till date has also been rather encouraging.
Once the main numbers come, I hope that they would be much better than what you expect. And we have set ourselves a very, very steep target of 55 million ton, which is exactly 100% of our EC that we will have this year. So we have taken ourselves on the challenge to meet these aspirational goals. And up to May, we are fairly on track. The actual numbers suggest that we are fairly on track. And going forward, you will see transformed NMDC. We are actively looking for assets abroad, and we are evaluating many, many assets, which obviously cannot be discussed in the public domain. But the good thing is that we have been able to open office at Dubai so that our Africa, the assets that we are looking in Africa are easily coordinated.
Our gold operations in Legacy, which the first year was obviously any first-year mining project will not make profits, where we had made some losses. We have also stabilized Legacy in the last two, three months. Hopefully, in this financial year, Legacy would also be showing us good profits. As you know, we have entered into a conversion of pellets with a conversion agreement of pellets with KIOCL. We have started exporting. It has added to our top line, but not so much to our bottom line. This year, we plan to do DRI-grade pellets, which will substantially add to our bottom line, not only to our top line, but also to our bottom line. That is the business plan for the coming year.
We hope that this year would be the year where our new assets, like the two coal blocks and the two iron ore blocks under our JV, NMDC Limited, should also become operational. We are looking for this coming year to be a transformational year for NMDC. It will be taken as this watershed year where the foundations of the great leap would be put. Thank you. Now, let's have the questions, please, Suman.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please proceed.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the answer. So first question is on the balance sheet. So we are seeing a very sharp increase in receivables this year to almost INR 7,800 crores. So can you share what are the key reasons behind and what are the key accounts where this has gone up, and how are we dealing with it?
There are only two accounts. One is RINL. The other is NSL. We don't sell on credit to any other people. NSL, as you know, is just turning around. March was the highest production and dispatch, followed by April by another highest dispatched year. So we expect the NSL outstandings to be fully liquidated by the end of the year, hopefully, because already they have started some payment of around about INR 200 crore a month. I think in the last two months, they have paid around INR 200 crore a month. So going forward, when NSL is doing much better, obviously, these things will be liquidated. Second is RINL. RINL also, as you know, has turned around that, like NSL, which has started generating cash surplus. RINL has also started generating cash surplus. And we have recommenced the, what do you call, the bill discounting thing.
And over and above the bill discounting, they have started paying us back. So the stagnancy has been removed. Both these outstanding accounts have become active in terms of liquidation of the outstanding. So going forward, by the end of this year, you will see a much truncated number.
Understood, sir. Sir, then any reason why we have taken some 50-odd crores of provision if we are seeing recovery in these accounts?
We had done the modeling on expected credit loss on these things. Once the amounts are, I think, realized, I think it will be reverted back to income.
Understood. So my second question is, with respect to RINL, we've entered into some long-term lease and extended some 500-odd crores. So can you explain what is the use and, I mean, what is the business purpose of this long-term lease?
Yeah. We have taken 1,167 acres from RINL, which shows in the CapEx. It has cost us around INR 1,500 crores. 1,167 acres, it is just next to Gangavaram port. So we expect three assets. It's in our plan of the 100-million-ton expansion plan that is within that larger plan. One is the slurry pipeline that is likely to come from Kirandul, Nagarnar to Vizag will terminate there, and we will have to make an 8-million-ton pellet plant there. That is envisaged. Second is, of course, the blending yard that we are envisaging that, as you know, that I have told in multiple fora that we will end minehead sales, and start selling from blending yard and stock yard. So a mega blending yard of around 20, 25, 30 million ton will be made there in that land.
And the third is, in future, if we are to mine lithium somewhere or some expansion plan is there, then we may need some land for processing of such minerals. So we are keeping a provision for that. But that is something that is the surety of which is not there today. The rest too, the pellet plant, the termination of the slurry pipeline, and the blending yard would obviously be much more certain to come.
Okay. And sir, for these two things, I mean, a few hundred acres should be enough, right? I mean, we have around 1,100 acres.
No, about one-third becomes green area. So 1,167 out of around, let us say, 400 goes straight away to green area, straight away. Your blending yard would require around 250-300 acres. And pellet plant would require another 200-300 acres. And about 100 acres is spare for future growth. So we have taken that because that land is very strategically located because we border the Gangavaram port. So whatever we do, we'll have access to the entire Gangavaram port.
Understood. And just one last question, sir. What is our sales volume guidance for FY 2026? And given that Lloyds Metals mine in Maharashtra is coming up with some expanded capacity, do we see that as some sort of a higher competition for us given that it is?
No, I don't think Lloyds Metals is a competition for us in the year. There are competitions, a little competition for us at the Raipur area, but Raipur for us accounts for around four million tons of ore only. So that's less than 10% of our entire sale is Raipur. Obviously, our access to the other markets, whether it is at Vizag or West Coast, we have an advantage, and anyway, our customer base is also growing very hugely, both in terms of number, and our existing major customers are also expanding their capacities very, very substantially. So I don't think that's going to be a fact. I think the size of the cake is increasing, and I think everybody can take a larger piece, including us.
Sir, what is the guidance for volumes for 26?
Around 55.4 million ton is what we are targeting. This is the EC capacity, max EC capacity that we will have. Both for production and sales, we are trying to reach that. Remember, notionally, if we didn't have a strike or two strikes of around IR issues of around 40, 45 days, so we would have reached. 45 days is one and a half months, which is around more than 6 to 6 and a half million tons. So we would have reached 50 million this year itself, notionally. So 55 would be a 10% growth from whatever it is, from our notional that we could have done last year.
Got it. Got it. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from Ambit Capital. Please proceed.
Hi. Thank you, sir.
Hello.
Can you hear me, sir?
Yes, of course. Loud and clear.
Yes. First question on the long-term capacity outlook, you mentioned it's 200 million tons. Previously, you had mentioned INR 50,000 crore Capex. Just wanted to see any update, and when you look at 2026, 2027 Capex, maybe can you provide an update what kind of Capex you're looking at for next 2026, 2027, and overall?
This year, FY 2026, most of the efforts would be on sanctioning the works and getting them off the ground, so actual CapEx would be, we expect around INR 4,000 crores this year. But our already sanctioned works, now we have around INR 40,000 crores of works have already been sanctioned by the board, which are either being under execution. That's around INR 8,600 crores of works are already under execution. INR 20,000 has been sanctioned by the board, and it is in making we are in the stage of making the packaging philosophy and the tender documents and all sorts of things, and around INR 12,000 crores we will be sanctioning in the next couple of months. Apart from that, we have around INR 2,000 crores where we call it the partnership model, where people will invest in creation of assets, so that is something that we are there.
Another INR 31,000-32,000 crores of project we are having a close look, which includes two slurry pipelines, one from Kirandul to Bacheli, and the other is from Nagarnar to Vizag, which the DPR, etc., is being prepared. So that's the long one. But that is the two taken together should be around INR 20,000 crores. And apart from that, the total, which is at the drawing board level, is around INR 32,000 crores.
So I'm just saying sanctioned is about 40,000. There is maybe 9,000.
Sanctioned is about INR 28,000-29,000. Another INR 12,000 will be sanctioned in a couple of months. So you can take sanctioned by July or August is around INR 40,000 crores.
Where is that 20,000?
Another INR 2,000 crores is under various sort of, what do you call, on BOO basis and other things. So around INR 43,000 crores is what you'll have by the middle of this year by the Q2 already sanctioned and at various stages. And another INR 31,000 crores is INR 32,000 crores is on the drawing board where DPRs are being made and other things are being done.
DPR, I know all these will take some time, but the one that is sanctioned, when you have greater visibility on the sanctions, so this year you're saying 4,000. If we look at 27-28.
4,000 crores, that is the next one.
So 2728, we should be looking at more than INR 10,000 crore annualized.
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. Because all those tenders will be awarded, and it takes around six months after the tenders being awarded to CapEx to start flowing in. Because the first six months, even if I were to award a 10,000 crore tender, the CapEx flow will start around six months after the award of the tender. So next year, next fiscal mid where we'll hit the CapEx flows.
Next fiscal mid, so 2027-28 is when you start picking it up. But the capacity increase would be bumped up at about. You'll see most of the capacity increase come in towards 2029-30?
Yeah. Obviously, obviously, when most of these projects finish off, only then a little bit would happen earlier also because there are at least three, four major projects that are in execution. The Screening Plant 2 at Donimalai, which is about INR 1,000 crores, that is already under execution since the last two, three years, last four, five months. Then SP3, Screening Plant 3 is under execution at Kirandul. Then the downhill conveyor at Kirandul, which is about INR 1,000 crores, we have awarded that around two, three months back. So that will get commissioned in two to three years. But yes, all this quantum jump. It will not be a smooth graph, so it will be a hop step jump. So, the maximum jump would come when these CapEx projects are completed at various stages.
Okay. Let's see. Recently, there's been some news around NMDC exploring coking coal assets in Australia and Indonesia. Just wanted to understand what is the thought. You already had some coal blocks within India, Rohne coal blocks and all. So what is the thought looking at coking coal? What kind of expansion is it like producing or exploration assets? Just the thought on diversifying into coal and petroleum.
Our diversification in international policy is very clear. It has been sanctioned by the board, and in consultation with the ministry, we've made a very clear-cut policy that we'll be looking at 10 minerals only, of which met coal or coking coal is one of the most important ones. Apart from that, we'll be looking at copper, lithium, cobalt, nickel, so gold, bauxite, so we are looking at 10 minerals only. That's one. Of course, we would like a portfolio to have all three types of assets. Some would be exploration stage assets where the risk would be less. Risk would be great, but the investment would be less. Some assets would be at the DPR and pre-production stage where the risk would be much lesser, but the prices would be higher.
Somewhere we would be taking stakes in operational mines where the risk would be almost nil, but obviously, the prices would be obviously much higher. Coking coal, most of it would be on the stage three assets, which would be operational. There's no point in taking coking coal, which are at the exploratory level. Most of the assets that we are looking at, negotiating at various levels, obviously, we cannot name them, but they are across the geographies. Of course, Indonesia is one geography. Australia is another geography. There are other geographies as well where we are looking at coking coal. So far, yes, I can take a lithium mine, which is at the exploration stage, but coking coal, I would prefer mostly operational stage assets.
I don't mind paying much more because the way the steel making is going to grow in India and the way the blast furnace capacities, most of it is to be blast furnace capacities. So India, which imports around 55-60 million tons, is likely to go up to 150-160 million tons of import for India in terms of coking coal. So we see a big opportunity there as a miner and as a, what do you call, as a company which is on hyper-aggressive expansion mode. I think coking coal fits the bill, and it has been one of those minerals where we have been mandated to look very closely and aggressively.
Just wanted to understand, I mean, as a country, there have been various attempts at acquiring international coal assets by private and state players across different minerals. And you obviously mentioned the legacy, I don't know, portfolio. Just wanted to understand your own success with the Rohne because what is the update there on the coal blocks? And generally.
Rohne should get operational by the end of this financial year. I think we have already done Section 5, and Section 7 notification for Rohne has already been done. Sorry, section?
9.
Section 9 notification is pending. Section 7 is over. 8 is over, so for Section 9, we have been requesting the ministry to issue that. And then after Section 9, the land comes in our possession, and Section 11 is where the mining lease is given, so hopefully, in another four-to-five months, we will be able to commence Rohne. There was an issue regarding animal corridor, which has just been settled, and hence there was a delay. And Rohne, remember, is mostly forest land, so there's hardly any private land that requires to be operational. So the washery will take some time to come up, but the coal mining operation should commence any time this financial year in the second quarter, let us say Q3 or Q4. That is where we are targeting.
Okay. Just last follow-up, just last question on maybe an update on the doubling of KK line, and also the Nagarnar plant has been loss-wide, and you're saying it's generating cash. So is it a bit of positive? And what led to this loss again in FY 2025? Just the overall Nagarnar performance and doubling of KK line. Thank you so much.
The first question was what?
Doubling of KK line, what's the update?
Only two sections are left out of 131 km. 20 km is left. One is Kamalur to Bhansi, Bhansi to Bacheli. The rest of them has been completed. So that's the difficult one. Railways have told us that they should be able to do it by December, but I think it will take a couple of months more. But by the end of this financial year, I think that should be completed. Around 20 km left. Two sections are only left out of the entire 150 km. Nagarnar, of course, we had our issues where in the mill, the R1 roughing stand one had broken down. It has come back to operation. It was put back in January, and from February, we have had our regular production. But mainly in Nagarnar, the problem that was there was of dispatch.
So if you see, we were dispatching around 125,000 per month, which has gone up to 230,000 in the month of March and 200,000 around 215,000 in the month of April. So that's a growth of more than 50%, which consequently has led to a growth of our production, which was hovering around 110,000 to 120,000. It has now gone up to 180,000, 190,000. Our cash collection, which was approximately 1,000, has gone up to around 1,400 crores in March and around 1,500 crores in April. So the turnaround is almost there. It's fully there. Back of the envelope calculation also shows that we have become a bit positive on a monthly basis in March and April. So that's a positive thing to have that we are cash surplus now on a monthly basis in the last two months since the turnaround has happened.
That is why I was so confident while I was saying that in my introductory speech and subsequently thereof that Nagarnar would be able to liquidate the outstanding that is with NMDC this year. So you will see a much reduced figure by the end of next year when it comes to the creditors there.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please proceed.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. So first question was on the domestic pricing outlook. So we've seen that international prices have been broadly rangebound, the Chinese prices, whereas domestic prices, we've also taken a price hike. So are these price hikes sustaining, and what is leading to is it the safeguard duty on steel? Is that helping the iron ore pricing outlook as well?
Yes. The safeguard duty on steel initially did help the market to look up, and that after a long period of depressed and gloomy market, I think the safeguard duties did kick in some buoyancy in the market. We all know the numbers, so yes, it was there, but subsequently, I think the prices have remained rather stable, both in terms of international, if you see, it's been hovering around 99-102 only for the past several weeks, so there has been some sort of stability coming in, but of course, domestic prices, I see again, non-HRC, that is basically the sponge and the other things, they seem to have come down a little bit, but the HRC segment is doing fairly well to that extent, so the market, I think in the steel market, is behaving a little differently for various segments of products.
So far as iron ore is concerned, our pricing is concerned because we cater to all sorts of customers having everything. So we have to keep our pricing in tune after taking into account all these factors. We are trying to come into an index-based or a formula-based pricing. That's the first time we did last month after three, four months of research. That is why we delayed the pricing a lot. This time, it will be the second time, and let us see going forward what lessons do we learn because the idea is to have more predictive pricing and more frequent pricing so that the market dynamics are factored into pricing on a regular basis rather than with a great amount of time lag. And also when in NMDC, because we aspire to sell from various depots rather than from our ex mines.
So unless we enter into some sort of a formula-based pricing where in three years from now, where we will have multiple point pricing and multiple product pricing, it might not be possible to do it manually every time that we do. So we have started the exercise. We hope that we get enough feedback in the next one or two years to fine-tune that system and be ready for the 100 million ton sales also through a much transparent, autonomous, and current mechanism.
Sure, sir. So also, I think this quarter, we saw a pretty sharp jump in employee expenses and other expenses. So is this the run rate that will be there for the next year, or does this include some performance-related pay or sort of one-off in this quarter?
This quarter, you'll have the actual valuation, so that will be a jump. So because that is only done in the Q4. So the jump that you see is essentially for the actual valuation. Otherwise, I don't think there has been a quantum jump on a year-to-year basis. I think that remains fairly stable and predictably almost the same.
Sure. On the other expenses, apart from the expected credit loss, any other things contributed to the jump?
The other expenses, obviously, you'll have because we have started two things. One, we have started exporting pellets. So obviously, the cost of pellets will be an expense. So that's around INR 250 crores. Then we have a marketing tie-up with NSL also. So obviously, the purchase cost of that would also be under the other expenses only. So that is why you'll see a substantial jump. That itself was around INR 200 crores. So naturally, you'll see because of these two new verticals that you'll have a jump in the other expenses.
Sure. So I mean, this purchase of coal would also lead to higher revenues. So part of the.
Yeah. It has led to around. We have not made much of a profit here, but we have not lost money. We have sold around, I think, INR 200 or 205 or 206 crores of coal. And because the markets were not good, and the purchase was around INR 190 or something, so we've made, I think, from that business, INR 5 or 6 crores only. I think how much was that? INR 500 and? The pellet business accounted for around INR 448 crores, and HR Coil this year was around INR 103 crores. Was it? Around that.
Sure, sir. So we are still making a positive contribution from the export of pellets.
Yeah. Yeah. But the game changer would be when we go to 3 million tons this year. We hardly did 0.5 million tons. The game changer would be when we do the entire capacity of 30 million tons and when we start producing DRI-grade pellets. We are in talk with AGPL right now to do the logistics of 3 million tons and how to crush it and have higher growth. That will be the real game changer. These are all in preparation towards that goal. This was just to ensure to get a sort of break-in to the system of making pellets and exporting, etc. Now that we have done it for around 5 lakh tons, this year, our target is to do 30 lakh tons or 3 million tons, which is the full capacity of the KIOCL plant. We also need to improve the grades to improve our realization.
We expect at least a premium of $30-$40 by selling high-grade pellets in the international market. So that would be a game changer. Hopefully, the sooner, the better.
Sure, sir. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please proceed.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Hi, sir. Good morning. Sir, three questions from my side. One, when we are talking about 55 million ton, do we have proper infrastructure on evacuation in place? Second question is, on account of the huge expansion plans which we are targeting around INR 70,000 crore plus, do you think that we need to take any debt on that, or our cash flows will be sufficient to fund all the CapEx? And third, we are talking about this pellet plant conversion from KIOCL, and what about our pellet plant, which is there at Karnataka, where we are in that operation? Thank you.
The first question was? Sorry.
The first question was, do we have proper infrastructure on the evacuation because?
Yeah. Evacuation is not the issue. The plants are an issue. We will have to run our plants at around 105% capacity, which is possible. There are a few bottlenecks. The rest of the plants are okay because there are conveyor belts, let us say, which can do 3,000 TPH, where we have been doing around, let us say, 1,200 TPH only because the downhill at some place, there was a restriction of that. So the entire system got choked, and we are right in the middle of de-bottlenecking such things, and I think if we can flog our plants to around 95%-105% capacity, we should be able to easily achieve that. Evacuation is not an issue. Railways are willing to give us rakes, and we have the loading capacities.
We have installed one RWLS, which once the FOH is there of the SP3 part, which is the fine ore handling area, once that is commissioned in a couple of months, we'll be able to dispatch many more rakes from there. We are also trying to develop a manual siding at Bacheli, R oute Number 5. If that comes in, so that will be two rakes another. You see, last year, we have commissioned three manual sidings. One is Route Number 13, which is now Route Number 15 in Kirandul, and Route Number 4 in Bacheli, and now Route Number 5. So, this will give us an incremental of 7-8 rakes a day, which translates to 9-10 million tons. So, I don't think dispatch is a problem.
The focus that we are putting in is on the plants, which is the downhill conveyor and the crushing and the screening plants, where we need to use them optimally to ensure that we reach this one.
So that means, sir, you're saying that if we can produce, we can entirely sell. That's not a problem.
That's not a problem. Selling is not a problem. The second part of your question was?
Any debt you plan to take on their new capacity expansion, or entire thing can be?
Our calculation, we can expect most of it would be internally financed. But whether we should consider our expansion plans beyond India, one call has to be taken about a year from now or about a year and a half from now that do we leverage our balance sheet even for our domestic expansion plan. That's a call that we need to take, but not today, maybe about a year from now or a year and a half from now to once our evaluation of a couple of properties abroad is finalized, and once we are able to have some number to those particular tie-ups that we are going to have, and only then we can take a call.
Otherwise, we have a fair amount of cash to see our CapEx through because some of these we are actually also doing on an PPP basis, what is called the partnership basis or the BOO basis. And our pellet plant in Karnataka is one such example where we are giving a full O&M contract of the pellet plant. I think that contract should be notified in another 7 to 10 days and finalized in another two months. So I think that will start getting operational. Our Nagarnar pellet plant will also get operational by December or January this year. So a lot of happenings are likely to be this year.
Wonderful. Sir, lastly, with pellet and HRC, which you are collaborating with NMDC Steel, as well as KIOCL, how does the system work? Obviously, we must be working on some fixed margin or how it is?
I didn't understand.
We are producing or we are selling iron ore fines to KIOCL and in turn converting it for them.
We are doing a job work for them.
How much we can make on a per ton basis?
Oh, if you sell high-grade pellets, it will be huge. Right now, we are just about making a very few amount of money. We are just neck to neck. But once we start selling high-grade pellets, then we should be able to make at least a margin of $30 per ton in the international market.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Singh from PhillipCapital. Please proceed.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to understand when you're talking about an easy limit of roughly about 55 million tons, we had this option to mine 20% extra from some of the mines. So.
This is after those.
Okay. Including all those, basically.
The Deposit 10 is 12. The Deposit 10 is sorry, Deposit 5 is 10 million tons. So we are factoring in 12 million tons there because we have already applied for that 2 million ton extra. So we hope that that will come. So these are all after those 20% extra.
Understood. So sir, what is the EC limit increase visibility beyond this 55 million tons in the next one to two years?
The EC and the capacity will come online together only, I think. We have applied for this EC in Bailadila for NMDC would be around 55 million ton only in Bailadila and 55-60 million ton. And I think 17 million ton in the Karnataka sector. So that will be around 82 taken together. Sorry, 72 taken together. And we have applied for EC of around 7 million ton in Deposit 4, which is under NCL, where the FAC meeting has been held last week only. And then Deposit 13, where the EC needs to be transferred to us. So that's another 13 million ton there, which needs to be increased to around 18 million ton. Go ahead. Hello. Hello. Okay. Okay.
Hello. So the participants' line got disconnected. We will take the next question. The next question is from the line of Tushar Chaudhari from Prabhudas. Please proceed.
Hello. Am I audible, sir?
Yes, sir.
Yes. So thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, this 662 crores in segmental revenue, which you have given, you have given the breakup. It is 200 for selling of coal and 400 for pellets. Am I right? Or you are referring to FY 2025?
I just have to get the numbers right. I give you an approximate number. I'll just let you know what the numbers are exactly. Just give me a minute. What was the pellet sales? You just showed it to me, no? You showed me. Tell me what the pellet sales was. It was INR 448 crores, and trading sales was INR 199 crores. That is INR 647 crores.
Okay. Secondly, sir, on NSL, why is our RM cost much higher than industry peers? So basically, if I compare it to.
Because we're not producing at 100%, no? Because the.
No, raw material cost, I'm asking. Raw material cost is almost 80% plus if I just take RM to.
Yeah. It would be there because your coke consumption would be huge. Your coal consumption would be huge. So obviously.
Share some operating parameters like coke rate, PCI injection rate.
Now we have touched our coke rate is around 530 right now. Fuel rate is around 530, no? Fuel rate is 530, and now in April and March and April, we have touched a PCI rate of 150, which is one of the best in industry standards. It used to be 70 only earlier, so naturally, all this cost matrix has no meaning unless you are producing at 70% or 80%.
Utilization.
Now our PCI has touched 150.
Iron ore.
TRT has become full 15 megawatt. And our fuel rate has come down to 530, which used to be around 580. So all those technical economics which were had earlier gone for a toss. Now with the volume increase, they all come back to where they should be.
What will be the ratio between fines and lump mix?
Right now, it is much more because we are not having the sinter plant. There's a problem of the granulator shaft being broken for the last three-four months. So it is right. Instead of being 20-80, it is around 32-68. So that is one of the reasons that, again, your raw material cost has gone up. That is again because we are putting in 20-25, sorry, around 12% more lumps. But hopefully, the granulator shaft will be repaired by July, and the new granulator shaft will come only by October. But by July, I think once the granulator shaft is repaired, so we will go back to the 80-20% as a consequence.
So despite all this, the fact that we have broken even on a back-of-the-envelope calculation basis in the month of March, on a monthly basis in March and April, and we will do the same in May, is a substantial, substantial achievement for our new steel plant. And I think this is one of the fastest ramp-ups, if you see. We are touching around 90% capacity utilization on a monthly basis. This is one of the fastest ramp-ups for a new greenfield plant.
Understood. Thanks a lot, sir. We'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shweta Dikshit from Systematix Group. Please proceed.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So a few questions on the guidance for FY 26. When we say that we are targeting 55 million tonnage enhancement, that includes 2 million tons enhancement that we're looking at for the depot side. So is this the right guidance for FY 26 in terms of sales, or should we look at a number which is moderate than 55 million tons for FY 26?
Yeah, that's an exponential target. We also understand because our plant capacities will have to be worked at around 100, 102%, 105%. Some of the plant at 105%, some of them at 95%. But that is what we are taking on. Sales, as I had actually answered in the previous question, that sales is not a problem because we have now much huger dispatch capacities. We have opened, as I said, three new sidings, which will account for at least six rakes a day. And with RWLS, it will be another three, four rakes additional. We do three there. We'll be able to do five to six there. So around eight to nine rakes on an additional basis, which is 12 to 13 million ton of capacity of dispatch. So dispatch is not the issue here. The issue here is the plant. Excavation will also not be an issue.
The issue would be, of course, the plants in terms of downhill conveyor and the screening plant and the loading plant.
Understood. And sir, on the other expenses, since we talked about two new segments contributing to the other expenses, one is export of pellets and the second is the marketing ties with NSL. So how do we see these two numbers moving forward? Marketing expenses, are they supposed to remain at this level going forward and how will that?
So this is a very substantial increase because we intend to increase our revenues. This is, remember, only 0.5 million tons of pellets. Okay? About 500. So we planned this year to have around 2.5 to 3 million ton of pellets. So these are likely to increase very, very substantially. So would our revenues and so would our profits be. So it's a consequential increase in other expenses because all these expenses are shown under the head of other expenses in operations. So we need to, I think, reclassify some of the expenditure heads as well. When these become very substantial, I think next year on, we'll have to show them as a separate line item so that there's much more to manage.
Yes, that would be very helpful, sir.
Yeah. We have to.
This was INR 250 crores of expenses that was for the pellet segment, right, in the other expenses?
Hold on. KIOCL was INR 250 crores, and there were other expenses related to. Other expenses, CSR is about INR 141 crores. What is that? Oh, and hiring of mining machinery was around INR 61 crores.
We targeted 2.5-3 million ton for FY 26 in pellet sales.
And high-grade pellets. What we have been selling is 62-63 grade. We need to sell 66-67, which is basically DRI grade, which gives us a premium of $30-$50 a ton.
Sir, last question, could you just highlight what was the realization for pellets this year and what could it be once you go to high-grade pellets?
The average realization for the 62, 63 grade pellet has been around $108-$110 this year, except for a couple of consignments where we had to sell a little less. That's been the average in dollar terms. If we are selling high-grade, this average will go up to around $140-$150 as per the current market situation. How it will be in the future, I don't know, but yes. Currently, if I were to sell that, so that would be the difference.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nidhi from BigMint. Please proceed. Hello, Nidhi ma'am. Your line is not audible.
Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. I just want to know that there have been reports that NMDC is considering index-based pricing for its iron ore. Can you please explain a bit more on this regarding methodology and all?
The methodology is not in public domain right now because we are ourselves on a learning process on this one. But going forward, as I said, the philosophy is that because we will be selling from various stock yards and blending yards, and because we will be selling various types of products, even that we do blended products, which we don't make as of today, and because so that's having a manual pricing regime, and because we want to do pricing more frequently to take so that our prices are in tandem with the market movements almost on a current basis. Having this philosophy, it is very clear that some sort of an automated platform has to be built for pricing. We have taken our first baby steps in terms of an index-based pricing.
As and when we go live, obviously, this will not be in public domain. For example, the Platts formula is not in public domain, but that is something that we want to develop for ourselves, having in view a 100-million-ton business and a distributed business and a segmented business. So this is the first baby steps that we have taken. It's a matter of faith that where we want to go. And let us see how because this itself is a learning process for us. We've just done it for one month, and let's see how it goes and how we fine-tune our approach to this.
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Jain. An individual investor.
I have five more minutes, so if you can.
Okay, Sanjay.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question, and my question is on Nagarnar Steel Plant. I think some of these were discussed in one of the earlier questions. What I wanted to understand is what was the production sales in the last quarter, in the fourth quarter? Production and sales from that.
Production and sales last quarter, I'm just telling you. Production was Q4 was 443 lakh tons. Sorry. 443, what is it? 1,000 tons, no? This is 1,000 tons. So it is 443,000 tons, and the sale was 501,000 tons, which is a substantial growth. I believe that's more than a 15% growth as Q3 is concerned.
Second question, how much more? What is the max production that we can achieve from this plant for?
We will be doing this year around 2.6 to 2.7, which is about 98% capacity utilization of HR coils. That will do.
Oh, that's great.
Because our problem was dispatch. Now that has been reasonably solved. We have taken six SFTO rake from one company, so that has really added to our dispatch capacities. We are taking 20 more rakes in future on SFTO basis, so which will completely change the scenario for.
Okay. In one of the notes, it's mentioned that you've done some arrangement with SAIL for sales of steel from.
Yeah. Currently, because we thought that creating depots everywhere is very expensive and time-consuming in a different way, so we have entered into arrangement with SAIL. And I think 60% of our total sales as of date is routed through SAIL because we send it to their stocking yard. They already have it. They are a sister concern. So based on the user charge, they also market our products. 40% still we market directly in terms of HR coils.
Can you share the commercial arrangement there? What cut they are taking? I mean, how much they are taking?
That is a commercial arrangement that I cannot disclose in the year, but there is a commercial arrangement between us and SAIL where SAIL does that to us.
Okay. If I can ask one last question. In the question which was asked by Tushar earlier, the percentage raw material cost as percentage of sales, it was 80% plus in the fourth quarter. And it was even higher earlier quarter. And when we benchmark this with private players like JSW Steel.
I have already given that answer in much detail. There was no question.
Yeah. I got directionally you mentioned that. But my question was, see, the gap is huge. They are between 50%-55%. A comparable business model, and we are at 80% plus. So I mean, when everything is right, are we going to go to that?
See, everything got right from March onwards. To that, I am still putting in 32% lumps instead of 20% lumps. So that will obviously cost me much higher. You know the lumps prices are 30% higher than the fines. So naturally, that will be huge. So.
My question was more on, I get your point. My question was more on, is that a right benchmark? Can we reach to those?
No, certainly not. But if you see the benchmarks of March and April, as I said, our coke rate, our fuel rate, everything has come down. We are waiting for our granulator to be okay. Despite all this, we were cash positive in April. We were cash positive in March. So that's something of.
Okay. Yeah. That's good to hear.
It will be much better in Q1. When you see the Q1 results, I think that is from where we can start the techno-economic comparisons with different plants. Earlier to that, I don't think it was a correct comparison to make.
Yeah, yeah. I understand. In the ramp-up phase, yes. But what my question was that ultimately, when everything is right, let's say after two quarters, three quarters, when we run at full blast and all the things are fine, so can we also expect that our raw material cost as percentage of revenue?
Yes, substantially.
Is towards that?
Yeah. Please, you would be happy to hear that our blast furnace capacity is 9,650 per day. And at least in the month of April, we have run it on five to six days, I think, at a capacity of more than 10,000. One day, we ran it at 11,000. So we know now that ramp-up is possible. And once you ramp it up, every cost comes down. Raw material, your overheads, your electricity cost, everything comes down. But I think that it's better to make those comparisons after Q1 when that hopefully is the first quarter where we'll be running it at around 80% plus capacity utilization on an average. So that is where.
And do we still run the steel plant under O&M contract or now the?
No, no, no. We run it ourselves now. We run it ourselves now.
Okay, okay, okay. Thank you so much for answering my question.
Thank you. I think it's been an hour. I have another commitment, so.
Yes, sir. Thank you. Due to time constraints, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you all for joining in. I can assure you that this year will be much more substantially action-packed in terms of NMDC, of course. We hope to open new mines within India, coal and iron ore. Outside India, we hope to acquire a few mines. This will be a year where it will be fully action-packed, and we expect to cross comfortably the psychological barrier of 50 million ton this year. Very comfortably, we expect to do that. We will also be setting the foundations for our entire growth plan of 100 million ton, where the sanctions are already in process, and we hope to kickstart the execution this year itself. This is going to be the watershed year of NMDC, and we are committed to ensure that we redeem our promise that we are making to our stakeholders.
NSL, of course, is another story that would be told for years because it is the fastest ramp-up that is happening in the history, I understand, for a greenfield plant in the history of India. And we hope that NSL has turned its corner. A couple of problems remain, like I said, the sinter plant granulator, etc. But despite all those constraints, I think we will be able to log in much better performance for NSL and our full efforts. And we are confident that this year it will turn green. The numbers would be in green rather than in red. So thank you very much for joining in. Really appreciate your time and attention. Thanks.
Thank you. On behalf of Dolat Capital Markets Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.