Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Valsia, the moderator of this call. Thank you for standing by, and Welcome to Nucleus Software Quarterly Earnings Conference call. For the duration of presentation, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode. We will have a question-and-answer session after the presentation. I would like to now hand over the conference to Swati Ahuja. Over to you, Swati.
Thanks, Valsia. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Swati from the Investor Relations Team at Nucleus Software. A very warm welcome to all of you for this Nucleus Software Earnings Conference call for the quarter and nine months ended on October 31st. For discussion, we have here from the management team, Mr. Vishnu Dusad, our Managing Director; Mr. Parag Bhise, CEO and Executive Director; Mr. Anurag Mantri, CFO and Executive Director; Dr. Ritika Dusad, Executive Director and Chief Innovation Officer; and Mr. Tapan Jayaswal, Financial Controller. As you all are aware, Nucleus Software does not provide any specific revenue earning guidance.
Anything which is said during this call, which may reflect our outlook for the future, which may be conceived as a forward-looking statement, must be reviewed in conjunction with the hurdles that the company faces. Audio and transcripts of this call would be shortly available on the Investor section of our website, www.nucleussoftware.com. We are now ready to begin with the opening comments on the performance of the company, and post that we would be available for the question-and-answer session. With this, I now pass over to Vishnu sir. Over to you.
Thanks, Swati, and very warm welcome to all of you for this investor call for the third quarter of financial year 2024. This is another quarter that takes us closer to our vision of making financial services accessible and enriching worldwide. We continue to improve our processes to serve our customers better and better, and we continue to learn from the best practices from all over the world. We had shared our progress on CI/CD, Continuous Integration, and Continuous Deployment through our press release. I must say that there is very substantial progress in that direction, which we would talk about in coming quarters. With those words, I hand over to Parag.
Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcoming you all to this quarter's investor call. I'm Parag, and as mentioned by Vishnu [audio distortion], we continue to focus on our deliveries, our customers, and the implementations. We do very strong project management, continuously improving our deliveries. And yes, in the fast-changing, very dynamic environment, in the fast-changing, dynamic environment, the new processes that we are following of CI/CD are going to play an important role because the environment is getting very dynamic, especially the regulatory environment changing. We have to continue to create value for our customers. Thank you.
Now I'll show this slide if you'll stop, sir, to put some light on the financial numbers.
Am I audible, Swati?
Yes, sir.
Okay. The highlights from financials are as follows: our consolidated revenue for the quarter is at INR 204.1 crore against INR 205.3 crore for the quarter and INR 169.3 crore. Total revenue in foreign currency, including Indian rupees revenue, is $25.1 million for the quarter, $24.9 million, $21 million year-on-year. Product revenue for the quarter is at INR 175.3 crore against INR 174.1 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 143 crore year-on-year. Revenue from projects and services for the quarter is at INR 28.8 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 26.3 crore year-on-year. For expenses, cost of delivery, including cost of product development for the quarter, is 1.8% of revenue, 0.6% of revenue quarter-on-quarter, and 59.9% of revenue year-on-year. In terms, this is INR 126.1 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 101.4 crore year-on-year.
Marketing and sales expenses for the quarter are 6% of revenue, 5% of revenue quarter-on-quarter, and 4.2% year-on-year. In terms, this is INR 12.3 crore against INR 10.4 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 7 crore year-on-year. Expenses for the quarter are 9% of revenue, 9.2% of revenue quarter-on-quarter, and 7.8% year-on-year. In terms, this is INR 18.2 crore against INR 16.9 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 13.3 crore year-on-year. EBITDA for the quarter is at INR 47.44 crore against INR 51.68 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 47.6 crore year-on-year. Other income from investments and deposits is at INR 11.8 crore, INR 11.1 crore quarter-on-quarter, and INR 8.2 crore year-on-year.
Total other income for the quarter is INR 12 crore against INR 11.9 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 9.3 crore year-on-year. Total taxes are at INR 14.6 crores against INR 15.3 crore, INR 34 crores quarter-on-quarter, and INR 13.7 crores year-on-year. Profit is at INR 41.3 crore for the quarter against INR 44.6 crore for the quarter, INR 58.3 crore year-on-year. Other comprehensive income is at INR 1.6 crore for the quarter against INR 3.4 crore quarter-on-quarter and INR 3.5 crore year-on-year. Total comprehensive income, which includes net profit and other comprehensive income, is at INR 42.9 crore for the quarter-on-quarter and INR 41.8 crore year-on-year.
Interest for the quarter is at INR 15.43 as against INR 16.65 in the previous quarter and INR 14.32. In terms of foreign currency hedges, on 31st December 2023, we had $4 million forward contracts at an average rate of 83.62, with a mark-to-market gain of INR 0.02 crore. The contribution from the top five clients for the quarter is 26.7% against 28.8% the previous quarter. The order book position is INR 743.7 crore, INR 698.9 crore of product business, and INR 54.8 crore of project and services business. September 30th, 2023, the order book position was INR 705.1 crore, including INR 148.2 crore of product business and INR 56.9 crore of project and services business.
Total cash and cash equivalent as on 31st December 2023 are INR 749.6 crores against INR 718.1 crore as on 30th September 2023. It includes balances in the current accounts of INR 47.1 crore, various schemes of mutual funds INR 27.6 crore, investment in tax refunds of INR 45.5 crore, and INR 5.3 crore in preferential shares. With regards to the receivables, we are at INR 181.7 crores against INR 161.7 crores previous quarter. During the quarter, there is a gross addition of fixed assets of INR 11.96 crores, consisting primarily of INR 2.68 crores on computers, INR 0.14 crores on furniture and fixtures, INR 0.08 crores on software, INR 7.65 crores on building, and INR 1.23 crores on plant and machinery.
Thank you, sir, for your comments. Now we are open for the question-and-answer session. To hand it over to Valsia. Over to you, Valsia.
Thank you, ma'am. If you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star and one again. I repeat, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from Piyush Arora, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Sir, my question was that for full FY 2024 and FY 2025, I think just in the TV interview you mentioned that we'll be able to maintain 30% EBITDA margin. Is that understanding correct?
No, no, no. That's not a correct understanding. What I mentioned was that we strive to be there in that range, 30% upward range. And as a policy, we do not give guidance.
Right, right. And so the second question was that there has been some deferment of orders that we have seen. So are we likely to see those orders getting executed in upcoming quarters?
Certainly, certainly. As I had mentioned in the TV interview, we continue to have very meaningful interactions with our existing customers as well as prospective customers. And we are very excited about how these conversations are going to result in orders and greater revenue.
Sure, sir. I'll get back in the queue.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Kumar Saurabh from TechnoFunda. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. So I am new to the company, so a few questions I have. Historically, we have been growing at 8%-9%, but the last one year our performance has been very good. And of course, there is a price tag which the company has taken. But what are the other reasons for this great growth rate in recent times? What are the drivers, and how do you see it sustaining? That is the first question. Second question is we have hired, and we are in the process of hiring 300-400 new employees. Where are they going to be deployed?
Are they going to work more on the product development side, or where they will be deployed? And third is one of our Southeast Asia business, despite INR 77 crore revenue, it is still in losses. There are many other reasons we are in profit at much lesser revenue. So what is the reason for that being losses and how it can recover? And the fourth question is in Europe and U.S., we are very less present. So are there any plans to expand into those markets, and what stops us from expanding into those markets? Thank you.
Hello? Yeah, yeah. We're just.
Okay, okay.
Ritika would talk about the product part, and then we'll come back to the reasons for being bullish about the growth.
I think your question was one of your questions was about entry into growth markets. So yes, these are high-pay propensity markets. We are exploring how to enter these. America and Europe, we already have presence in Europe, but last frontier. Plus, it's the last frontier. So another question was about the 300-400 players that we have. So we are strengthening our product development team to be able to take care of product market fit requirements going ahead as we then our product management practices as well. We are being a lot more proactive about how we enter different customers from a very early stage of their product adoption. We're trying to move towards the plug-and-play solution with integrations built into the product.
Let me address the question about our being bullish for the growth rate. The single biggest reason for being bullish continues to be the strength of the product. As we demonstrate this product to our prospective customers, we get comments like, "It's a dream product," and so on. So that is what keeps giving us that confidence that, yes, we have created something that is of immense value to the customer community. And then when they start taking decisions, they'll be able to derive that value from the product. Coming to Southeast Asia profitability, we have still to go back to them for our price hike, which we'll do in coming quarters. And then we hope that this decision will also be profitable.
Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vaibhav Badjatya from Honesty & Integrity Investment. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for providing the opportunity. So just a couple of questions. So firstly, there was some disturbance in the line. I'm not sure it was in my line or from your side. But if you can repeat the order book number, that's question number one. Second is the number of employees. That's what I want. And third is, on the geographical segment revenue, we see on a quarter-on-quarter basis, there is a growth in Europe and Middle East. So is it again due to AMC repricing, or you attribute it to something else? These are the three questions that I had.
Okay. [audio distortion], would you take up that order book position and number of employees question?
Sure, sir. So order book position is INR 743.7 crores, including INR 698.9 crores of product business and INR 44.8 crores of project and services business. On September 30th, 2023, the order book position was INR 705.1 crores, including INR 648.2 crores of product business and INR 56.9 crores of project and services business. As for headcount, we were 1,878 as of 31st December 2023.
Regarding the last point on the growth in Europe, Middle East, this is the basis on the rebase signing of the accounts we have in Europe as well as Middle East. That's getting reflected in the financial results. That answers that point.
Okay, okay. Yeah. So just a follow-up on employee count. I think last quarter, you said that you're going to add nearly 300-350 employees. But we have seen some sequential decline in employee count. So can you help us reconcile both the things?
Yeah. They will get added in coming quarter.
Got it. That's it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Chinmay Nema from Prescient Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my questions. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, could you provide some commentary on what kind of traction are you seeing in FinnOne Neo, whether it's new customer additions or transition of old customers? Because previously, you've talked about some friction and transition for the older customers for whom you have had very customized solutions. If you could give a commentary on that.
Yeah, certainly. We did have that challenge. Now, with very robust project management, we have been able to get at least one customer's requirements aligned on Neo. We are hoping that this will go live very soon, one large customer. Then we realize that many more of our old customers will migrate to the new platform.
Sir, would it be possible for you to share the total number of client additions in the nine months?
I think these numbers are very, I would say, single-digit numbers. So we may not be able to share anything beyond that.
Got it, sir. Secondly, historically, we have always had relatively higher receivables compared to other IT companies, other core banking software companies. So any color on that? What is the reason for that?
I think we are always within 90 days DSO. That is what, less than 90 days. It's around 60-70 days without sending. That's what we typically have.
Okay. And lastly, I mean, so have we seen any loss of our market share or any of our clients to companies like Temenos or Thought Machine who are also operating in the same space?
Not yet. We have not heard of any such thing now.
Okay, sir. All right. I'll join back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pranav Kshatriya from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, hi, Madam. Hello.
Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, yeah, just checking. Yeah, just one similar feedback to a few of the parts that you had shared. Some parts of the audio from the management are not very audible. So it could be a repeat of a few questions. One is on Europe. So there was some commentary shared on having some presence. So some color on that would be great. And on the order deferment.
Your voice is not clear. You have to speak louder. I don't know whether it's a challenge at your end or what. Yeah, we were not able to hear your question.
Yeah. So I was saying that part of even your commentary was not quite audible. So I'll just repeat and apologize. So one is on Europe. You said that there was some we have some presence. Just some commentary on that and on the deferment of orders and employee headcount.
Europe, what was said was it was because of the repricing, what we've been talking about in the past. So reflection in Europe and Middle East was because of that. On employee headcount, are you on precise number? What was said was that the count will get added in this quarter if the question is related to the 300 or this and next quarter. Or if you're looking at precise numbers, then I can ask my colleague, Tapan, to share that. It was 1,878 as of 31st December.
There has been some mild recession compared to Q2. Is that fractional, or is that we have not been backfilling?
Yeah, there's a mild one. So we'll start backfilling and adding more in the quarters to come.
Okay, sir. Thank you. [audio distortion]
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sonal Minhas from Prescient Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sonal Minhas. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Yes, sir. Sir, just wanted to get a couple of questions. The first one was a subjective take of comparison of FinnOne to other products like Thought Machine and Temenos. Where are we in terms of like-to-like comparison? Just trying to get educated on the specs for your product and the other peers in the market. That's the first one. And secondly, just wanted to, I think, from a two-three-year perspective, what we understand from talking to some of these banks is that the core banking systems are getting; they are aging, and therefore, everybody is in the need.
But people are trying to blend both the asset and the liability side to have more dynamic product offering to their customers, more on the personal and more on the personal loan side. Just wanted to understand, sir, how is your thought development and build going to be over the next two, three years? If you could throw some color on that, and how are you reading the core banking industry? That would be good to understand. These are two questions.
Okay. Just to let you know that we have thousands of years of experience in developing the lending and transaction banking products, which, again, we have put to use while designing this new product, which we called FinnOne. Earlier product was called FinnOne, and the new product is called FinnOne Neo. We have put that thousands of years of experience to use for the design. And our belief is that thanks to that rich experience that we have and the effort of design, our product is amongst the best, if not the best. And that is what we get to hear from our existing customers as well as our prospective customers. And I just mentioned a term. Someone recently mentioned it's a dream product.
So that is what gives us confidence that, yes, what we have created is of immense value to our customers where they would want to be very, very flexible in their offerings. They would like to personalize their offerings. And our product, I can say with confidence, can help them create literally thousands of offerings or, if required, tens of thousands of offerings. And that too within a short period of half a day, one day. So that is the power of this product. And that is the reason it is doing it is adding so much value to our customers.
I understand that, Sir, more from the future growth perspective, not asking numbers, since the product is good and is comparable to, let's say, other international and domestic products available, what has been the adoption? How do you see this growing? Do you see somebody earlier asked about the client adds and the single-digit client adds? Do we see the space actually speeding up in the next one, two, three years? And what are we doing about it? Just trying to understand from the overall perspective of implementation of sales for this particular product.
Yeah, we clearly see this increasing in the quarters and years to come. What we are doing very proactively is marketing. As you would have noticed in the numbers, we have increased our spend on marketing. We are going to increase that spend much, much more. We didn't realize till recently that INR 4,000,000 crore worth of retail assets in India alone reside on our product. We were busy developing the product. Now we are busy talking about the product. That is how we are confident that these numbers are going to increase now.
Understand that. I'll come back in the future. Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. We cannot hear you. Sorry.
Is it any better now?
Yeah, now we can hear you.
Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Actually, congratulations to get the young blood into the business in a more appropriate manner now. So my first question would be, what exactly would Ritika's role be here on? And what kind of new thought process you think could be added to the current way the things are happening to bring in new energy from your side?
Yeah. As of now, thanks for the meaningful question, Rahul. As of now, Ritika, while her official designation is Chief Innovation Officer, she has already started looking at the product management and engineering part of the product and also implementation of the FinnOne Neo product. So that is the role enhancement that has been done. And she brings her ability to connect dots. Thanks to her physics training, which we are able to leverage for our customers' benefit.
Sure, sure. On the business side, what I can see across your revenue subsegment is that most of the markets have seen the meaningful jump from their run rate, let's say, four, five quarters back, except for Southeast Asia. Is it safer to assume that is the market that is yet to take the AMC repricing? Is it lesser acceptance, or we are yet to go in that market with that thought process?
Yeah, we are yet to go in that market with that thought process. We were busy with the market where we have been able to achieve this hike, and then now we are going there.
You're saying, essentially, from here on, we would chase that market for this aspect?
Yeah, both ways. We will be talking about the repricing as well as we will be talking about transformation from FinnOne Neo to FinnOne Neo.
Okay. So FinnOne Neo, is it the first time that we are taking this thought process to the market, or it's been ongoing for some time now?
It has been ongoing, but not with so much of focus in Southeast Asia.
Is it safer to assume the kind of investment that the business has seen in last three quarters with revenue being flagged but other expensive employee costs going meaningfully higher? Is it because we have created a parallel sales team or much deeper sales rigor to ensure this transition need to happen, which we wanted for quite some time but has not materialized for us in the past?
We are strengthening our product implementation and delivery quite a bit. These large transformation programs at some of the top banks across the globe are very complex. Some of them run into years, whether it's from a Southeast Asian geography or from a Western geography. We are strengthening those fronts right now to take on some larger clients from across the globe. We are also strengthening our product management thought processes as well as sales and presales processes. We are basically strengthening the ecosystem to take on the global market that exists for something as niche as our products.
Right. So the implementation thought process which you shared, when you say you're strengthening, basically, it is the effort that you're doing in-house to ensure that there is a smoother transition for people who you would apply for? Is it some live site where it's already happening?
Yeah. So we are doing this in-house. So there are various ways of strengthening these kind of programs. Of course, one is strengthening the governance, but there are a lot of ways in which SIs do this. If a bank has hired an SI, then they lead the program governance. If they haven't, then we lead the program management governance. So there are change management procedures. There are benefit realization procedures that we are now kind of trying to share with our customers so that as soon as they realize, the sooner they realize the value, the better it is. And then, of course, that would also help us in increasing our prices further going forward.
Is it safer to assume the older version is now not getting as much equipped for people to actually think in that manner? Otherwise, if people would have paid a perpetual license for the older version, why would they migrate?
That's an excellent question. The older product continues to have immense potential within that product. But having said that, the earlier process that I described about creating the new product, it takes that potential even to the next level. Things like ultra-flexibility that has been built using engines, the number of APIs, straight-through processing, and so on and so forth, which are things that were not that easily available in the earlier product, FinnOne Neo. And that is the reason they are keen to move to the new version of our product.
Yeah. What I'm trying to essentially understand is, I don't know if it is a perfect analogy. Let's say if you see an iPhone, after a certain number of models, let's say three-four older versions, the newer apps that you see on the App Store are not able to download on the older versions. So I have an iPhone 7 where I cannot download a lot of apps, which are now only relevant for iPhone 10 and beyond.
So is it something that kind of a constraint that the user would face if they don't migrate? Because that is something that would force people to jump onto the newer version. Otherwise, you will know there is a lot of things, and that might be just too essential for a very, very long period of time. So why they would jump from the same vendor to a different product?
Yeah. I think your analogy is meaningful also. And while they will not be able to do certain new things using the old product, the new product has far richer functionality. These are the two reasons.
That's true. Just last bit, more like a suggestion. I would say that the newer member in the team, not newer asset but newer for the call, is that this company has seen an excellent situation in the previous cycle where there was significant adoption, and the company has seen multiple jumps. And then we have seen this last many years, except for this last 12 months, where the business has not gone to the extent where the product has its potential for. So now with newer energy coming in, we would appreciate if we could talk more about our new wins, our more plans, more disclosure, which any larger company, larger aspiration would have, which would help all the people out here in the investor community to assess the business better and participate in the journey. That's a small thought from my end. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Rahul.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Next question comes from Imran from Quantum Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for giving the opportunity. Can you throw some light on what are we going to do about the cash? And have we ever done an IPR valuation given that we have INR 4,000,000 crore of assets running on our software?
That's a brilliant question, Imran. Thank you so much for giving it. We have not done the valuation of the IP. We do hope that our software will be able to do it well to increase revenue. Yeah. Coming back to the cash part, yeah, as far as the cash is concerned, we are not supposed to do any acquisitions as of now. Part of it will be invested in tools and technologies and training that we will need to keep on improving the quality of our offerings. The rest of it, the board would decide whether enhanced dividend or buyback or holding.
Thank you. Sir, can you give an idea what percentage of our customers have moved to the UNC, or how many are remaining, or something for us to look into the future?
Okay. I can only say today, all the percentage is now left for enhancement of AMC. And then having said that, even the new prices, our customers were very happy to agree on. Those are keeping these prices, and we will continue to be in negotiation with all of them so that we continue to add value, and they are able to keep value there.
Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from Anuj Sharma from M3 Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. And Vishnu D, your voice was not very much clear for some part of this call. But if I would like to understand, theoretically, if a customer has moved to the new pricing structure, then how do we take it forward? So does the price now remain static for some period of time before we again unveil a new pricing structure, or there is some elasticity in the new pricing model? That will be helpful to understand. Since most of the migration, as you said, is done, how does the price move from now on?
Okay. I think this is a very important question that you have raised. Thank you so much, Anuj, for raising this question. We will need to appreciate the fact that as we keep adding more and more features to the product, the value keeps changing. And our role is to keep demonstrating the value to our customers so that they are benefited by the features. And there is a win-win relationship which is ongoing. I think that is all that I can say in terms of pricing. We may not be able to go to anything beyond that.
All right. But since the last time around, it took us a lot of time to communicate the value proposition to our customers, the new value addition which you will do, will there be, again, a similar effort for you to convince the customers, or there is something which is more easier or which could be done more on the go rather than waiting for a long time? How has the organization changed or the sales changed so that we are able to communicate the value proposition very quickly and get a response from the customer in possibly real time?
So I think the product philosophy which we are forming right now is primarily that after every six months, as of now, we are delivering the incremental value to our customer, right? And that value realization is almost instantly. At the same time, we are also starting a lot of lean-based principles for our CI/CD journey which we talked about, which are again going to give the value realization to the customer very instantly. The vision is to have, as soon as we build something which is valuable to the customer, the customer should be able to reap benefit from that feature or value in a day's kind of a time period. So that's a thought process, and that's where we are visualizing ourselves going in the next six months to one year kind of a time period.
Right. And just to add to what she had just mentioned, the environment itself is changing at a crazy pace. The regulator's requirements from regulated entities are increasing literally on a weekly basis, if not daily basis. And we are preparing ourselves to help the ecosystem manage that dynamic change.
All right. All right. That's helpful. And if I may ask one more, Vishnu Ji, once upon a time, we had a very large customer in the form of GMAC. And I remember you asked about installations in every country. Is the sales team looking for similar, large customers, or are the customers by nature smaller now, and such similar customers will be very difficult to find in the future?
I think that's a great question. So we are trying to have multicultural customers over it. One is the transformation project just going on in Jordan, which would span across seven countries. So that is one. Second, on GMAC also, we're trying to explore possibilities of getting into North America. At the moment, it's limited to international operations, which is Latin America. So we are also looking at expanding the footprints for the existing customers as well as acquiring new big logos, which can take us to multicultural scenarios.
All right. All right. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. That would be the last question for the day. Now, I hand over the floor to Swati for closing comments.
Thank you, Valsia. We'd like to thank all the investors for joining us today on this call. Now, I would hand over to Vishnu Sir for his closing comments. Over to you, Vishnu Sir.
I would like to thank all of you for your continued interest in Nucleus's functioning and would like to reiterate our commitment to deliver and create long-term value for all the stakeholders. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Sir. That concludes our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect now.