Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Zydus Wellness Q4 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. Before we get started, I would like to remind you that the Q&A session is only for institutional investors and analysts. And therefore, if there is anybody else who is not an institutional investor or analyst, but would like to ask questions, please directly reach out to the Zydus Wellness investor relations team. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhuwania from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Bhuwania.
Thank you, Nirav. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Q4 FY 2024 results conference call of Zydus Wellness. From the management today, we have Dr. Sharvil Patel, Chairman; Mr. Tarun Arora, CEO; Mr. Ganesh Nayak, Director; Mr. Umesh Parekh, CFO. I would now like to hand over the call to Dr. Tar- Mr. Tarun Arora for his opening remarks, post which we can open for Q&A session. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, and welcome to the post results teleconference of Zydus Wellness Limited for quarter four, financial year 2023-2024. Like Karan mentioned, we have with us Dr. Sharvil Patel, Chairman, Mr. Ganesh Nayak, Director, and Mr. Umesh Parekh, CFO of the business. During the quarter gone by for the FMCG sector witnessed gradual uptick in demand and growth in rural demand, which started converging with that of urban demand. So we've seen some green shoots, like I've mentioned in the last quarter as well. Most of our company's portfolio has seen demand recovery, which was further fueled by the demand of summer-led brands like Glucon-D and Nycil, in the anticipation of good summers. The company further expects demand to pick up in the hope of good monsoon and improvement in macroeconomic factors. Most of company's portfolio has seen positive volume momentum.
As a result, the company registered consolidated net sales growth of 9.6% on year-over-year basis, of which 5.5% is due to volume. The personal care segment continues to register strong double-digit growth for the quarter, with both Everyuth and Nycil portfolio witnessing a good demand traction. The food and nutrition segment also turned positive and reported a mid-single digit value growth for the quarter on year-over-year basis. Both Complan and Sweeteners portfolio have seen positive revival in demand. For Nutralite brand, value growth trails the volume due to market-driven prices. The company's research and development capabilities continue to be on the forefront, helping the company to launch new products and extensions, namely, Glucon-D ActivORS electrolyte energy drink, a ready-to-drink format for on-the-go consumption in a couple of states.
The company also extended its sweeteners portfolio with the launch I'm Lite, a unique formulation of sugar blended with stevia to offer consumers 50% less calories than regular sugar, and new range of products under Sugar Free D'lite range for the international business. We continue to witness cross -margin expansion with an improvement of 377 basis points on a year-on-year basis for quarter four of the financial year contributed by calibrated price increase taken earlier and efficient hedging strategy fro key commodities. Let me take you through some highlights of the consolidated financial performance of quarter four, financial year 2023-2024. Our net sales grew by 9.6% to INR 7,780 million.
We reinvested some of the gross margin expansion into brand building, as a result of which, advertisement expenses grew by 41.6% year-on-year, on a lower base of brand investment last financial year. Other expenses grew by 9.3% year-on-year basis. EBITDA grew by 12.2% year-on-year to INR 1,622 million. The company reported profit after tax of INR 1,503 million. Adjusted PAT after eliminating exceptional items and one-time deferred tax assets impact in comparable quarter of previous year grew by 24.7% on a year-on-year basis. Coming to the annual consolidated financial highlights, our total income from operations increased by 3.2% year-on-year to INR 23,279 million during the year.
Our EBITDA was down by 8.6% year-on-year to INR 3,082 million. EBITDA margin as percentage of total income from operations stood at 13.2%. The company reported profit after tax of INR 2,669 million. Adjusted PAT after eliminating exceptional items and one-time deferred tax assets, was down by 9.1% on year-on-year basis. Net debt stood at INR 77 million. Our consolidated CapEx for the year was INR 489 million. With that, let me share some of the highlights of operations for the year gone by, which will also cover category growth, market share numbers as per MAT March 2024 report of Nielsen and IQVIA. We continued our thrust on marketing initiatives to grow the categories and increase market share of our brands during the year.
On the personal care front, Everyuth brand continues to outpace category growth and has registered a strong growth for the financial year. The face scrub category has registered a growth of 12.1% at MAT level. Everyuth scrub has maintained its leadership position with market share of 45.6% in the facial scrub category, which is an increase of 369 basis points over the same period last year. The peel-off category has registered a growth of 14.5% at MAT level. Everyuth peel-off has maintained its number one position with a market share of 80.2% in the peel-off, which is an increase of 174 basis points over the same period last year. Everyuth brand is at number five position with market share of 6.5% at overall facial cleansing segment level.
Nycil brand has also reported a strong growth for financial year. The prickly heat powder category has grown by 3.7% at MAT level. Nycil has maintained its number one position with a market share of 35% in the prickly heat powder category. Nycil has recorded its highest household penetration at 8.5% at MAT February 2024 level, with its volume growth ahead of the category. On the Glucon-D front, with continued marketing efforts towards driving growth and recruiting new consumers, brand penetration has grown by 62 basis points versus last year, as on MAT February 2024, as per Kantar panel. The glucose powder category has grown by 4% at MAT level. Glucon-D continues to maintain its leadership position in its glucose powder category with a value market share of 59.5% at MAT level.
On the Complan front, the nutrition drink category has started showing signs of revival in the latter half of the financial year from a slowdown in the last year. The brand performance is a reflection in similar lines. Brand penetration has grown by 26 basis points versus last year to 2.9% as a MAT February 2024, as per Kantar panel. We launched a new TV campaign with two popular celebrities, namely, Madhuri and Sneha, which was backed up with a robust 360-degree campaigns across all media. The category has grown by 6.4% at MAT March level. Complan market share stood at 4.3% at MAT level. Sugar substitutes category has grown by 5.5% at MAT March level.
The Sugar Free brand continues to dominate sugar-free substitutes with a market share of 95.9%. Sugar Free Green continues to grow at high double digits, led by volume offtake growth. On the Nutralite front, the brand registered good volume growth due to during the financial year. However, the negative value growth due to market-driven prices, the brand was supported by various customer engagement activities like chef meets and participation in food exhibitions. The brand's digital initiatives, like Nutraverse, the world's first cookery show on Metaverse, received numerous awards from the marketing fraternity. With the indicators of good summer season and a normal monsoon expected to augur well for the company's significantly contributing seasonal portfolio.
The recent introduction of hub and spoke model will further strengthen company's supply chain capabilities and add to timely availability of company's products in the key markets. The company will continue to innovate further to meet the evolving consumer preferences. Better macroeconomic indicators, along with company's resilient front-end and back-end capabilities, are likely to result into good growth for its brands in the coming quarter. Thank you, and we can now start the Q&A. Over to the coordinator for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We'll now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark. Please, go ahead.
Hi, team. Thanks for the opportunity, and, congrats on good recovery and, robust profitability after long. More importantly, the quality of earning looks, good, prima facie. So just wanted to know, you, you called out in your presentation opening remarks that there is, gradual progression in selected consumer space. So just wanted to know more, insights on con-- constituent of this, progression and, also sustainability of the same.
So I think what we're seeing is some categories are showing better resilience and better response, namely especially the personal care spaces. With both the brands, we've seen over the whole financial year and even now, a good response from the demand side. Similarly, some of the other factors which is running across our food and nutrition portfolio, we are seeing a far better pull from a consumer's side... and across channels, therefore, we hope that this will build, as a lot of people are talking about in the industry as well, that it can build up as we see.
Sure. And so, we are in middle of very good summer season, so, how's the retail uptake? I can understand that perhaps fourth quarter had some element of stocking up before the summer. But, what's your sense on initial sense on retail uptake? Is it in line, and, and can we expect a good start of this fiscal year?
Yes. Hopefully, yes, because it's still part of the quarter gone by. So far, we've whatever we've seen is a positive movement from the retail.
Sure. And, sir, our cost portfolio are... Because your market share slide on both Nycil and Glucon-D still is showing a downward trend. So, just wanted to know, is it that market is actually doing better or slightly there's a lag in this number will show up in coming quarters in terms of market share gain for us?
So I think there is some bit of catch-up for Nielsen, specifically in the personal care space, where we've seen they've been at a category level, showing only a 2%-3% growth for last year, as well as continuing. So I think there is a lag, and I hope Nielsen shares will catch up with our internal growth, because that's been sustained. So I would say it's a mixed bag. We do see, like many other companies, local players spinning up, competition heating up, but our full growth are not fully reflected in some of the market shares.
Sure. Sir, considerable jump in our A&P spend for the quarter. Was this to support new launches or was it the existing competitive intensity in the existing portfolio is very high?
So, so there are, again, two factors. One is that we've been optimizing our advertising spends as the gross margins were under pressure over last two financial years. Now, as we've got the opportunity to, with the gross margins improving, we deployed back that money because we believe it has to support the demand generation to build our business in the right direction. Yes, we have some launches, but it's more to build more demand and also deal with competition challenges that come along with it. But we think, we've reset this level and need not have to invest continuing at the same growth levels.
Sure. Sir, last, and ceteris paribus on gross margin or raw material situation as it is today, how should we think about EBITDA margin? Because we have given quite, quite a, quite margins in the last two, three years. So how should we think about that number from here on?
So going forward, I, you know, we expect the inflation to be normal, which is a manageable 4%-5% or 3%, whatever that we've seen over the last eight to 10 years, rather than the extreme inflation that we saw over the last two years. Within that, I think we hold our wish list to be a much higher 17%-18% EBITDA in next two years. I think we, we'll continue on our journey. Our gross margins is our starting point. I think over the next few, over next few quarters, I think this should build up into some operating leverage as well.
Thanks, sir. Thanks. That's all from my side, and all the best for FY 2025.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Ajay Thakur from Anand Rathi Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. So my question was again on the summer portfolio. So you did elaborate on, you know, summer sales, kind of, witnessing good kind of attraction. But have we seen any, you know, weather-related kind of, you know, disruptions at any, you know, kind of, regions? Or how is, you know, it versus the last year, if you can throw some light more so from, you know, the more like, you know, April, May perspective rather than the, you know, Q4 perspective?
At an overall level, I think we still see a good season. Of course, there are patches like some markets which will have those things, and no year is completely even across the country. So we right now, at an overall level, we are seeing a good uptake, and we believe that's a good way to look forward. Regarding last year, we saw especially the biggest of the markets, like North, had a significant rainfall, which depressed the temperatures. So that we are out of this year, and that should persist as well.
I understand. I understand. Secondly, wanted to get a more sense on the growth. You referred to the growth in Complan actually coming through. So can you just elaborate on the, you know, what kind of a growth we are seeing in the category itself? And also, you know, how are we, you know, kind of looking at further kind of, you know, improving our shares in the category? So that would be helpful.
So at Complan level, the category has seen some revival, and like I mentioned, at a MAT level, we are seeing about 6.5% kind of growth levels. We are also positive that as the category builds up, we will continue to build along with that. We have seen penetration levels grow in double digits. Of course, it's not fully translating into same level of growth because of inflation and other factors, but consumption is not keeping pace with the increased penetration. So our view is right now, we continue to, like we've said in the past, hold and build step by step. Good part is with the milk prices being stable, we will continue to improve our gross margins. We look at holding our market shares or step-by-step building it, and a reasonable level of growth.
We have some interesting more initiatives over the next few quarters, which will help us to take it to the next level, and we'll share it as and when they are out in the market.
Understand. Sir, I also wanted to understand more on the sugar-free side of it. We have been witnessing some bit of a competition, especially in the modern trade, in the sugar-free category. What is your take on the same? A lot of competition coming from Equal and, you know, their branding. So are you also witnessing the same in the market? You know, and if you can throw some light on the sugar-free category itself.
So there has not been any significant competition perspective. I think our focus, single-minded focus on Sugar Free and sweeteners overall is to build the category. As a significant number one focus is to recruit new consumers. We found over the period of time, since a lot of negative things happened, Sugar Free Green, thanks to its natural equity, plays a very strong role. That's seen a good double-digit growth consistently over now, I don't know, 10 or 12 or maybe 13 quarters. So we continue to build, driving that as a lead recruiter variant on the Sugar Free. And we've also now launched I'm Lite. So at an overall sweetener level, we're hopeful that we should be over next couple of years see a good enhancement of growth.
Understand. So lastly, on the tax front, if you can just guide us on the tax rate for next year and the year after. As for 2025, 2026.
Yeah. So, for this financial year 2025, we won't be paying any tax. And there of course, there will be a deferred tax liability would be there, but there won't be any cash outflow on tax front. In the year 2026, 2027, but there will be, you know, partial tax outflow because we will have benefit of Sikkim facility as well, the 80-IE. So, you know, for 2027, financial year 2027, we'll have some tax outflow, but this year, certainly there won't be any tax outflow.
2026, if you can throw some light specifically what-
2025, 2026. 2025, 2026.
So 26 also, we are not looking at any tax rate in terms of-
No, no.
Any tax outflow.
I said, because of the... We are for 2025, 2026. I am saying because of the Sikkim facility, we'll have a partial tax outflow.
So what kind of tax rate can we build in for modeling purpose?
Yeah. So, you know, you can talk to me separately. I'll take you through that.
Okay, sure. Not an issue. Thanks for that. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask the question. Next question is on the line of Kaustubh Pawaskar from Sharekhan by BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, sir. Thanks for giving me the opportunity, and congrats for good set of numbers. So my question is again on the Sugar Free. So, last quarter, we have seen because of some bit of negativism and even the Sugarlite sales got impacted. We have seen it like-
Kaustubh, sorry to interrupt you. Can you please speak through the handset?
Yeah, just a second. Is it, is it better now?
Yes, thank you.
Yeah. So I just, I have a question again on Sugar Free. So last quarter, we have seen, you know, Sugar Free sales decline, seeing a degrowth on year-on-year basis, and there were reasons to it, and a lot of negativism was built up, you know, around the brand. This quarter, we have seen growth coming back again. So I just want to understand the reason for the growth. Is Sugar Free Green only the key driver for the growth? And can we expect this growth to be consistent? And, you know, with the new addition to the portfolio, it should improve further, maybe in quarters ahead?
We've seen consistent after the WHO and other impact that we had and the impact of Sugarlite, the sweetener portfolio did come under pressure. We've seen that progressively improve and clearly a reasonable revival of growth on this in the last quarter. We expect going forward, we'll further build on it and see a consistent growth as we emphasize for sweeteners as a portfolio, with both Sugar Free Green and I'm Lite being the key leaders or drivers of growth back on the sweeteners.
So, sir, overall food portfolio, so we are seeing personal care, you know, consistently, there has been a good growth. This quarter also, we have achieved double-digit kind of a growth. Foods, this quarter, it was mid-single digit kind of a growth. With overall recovery in the you know in some of the key categories growth, should we expect FY 2025 to be a double-digit kind of a revenue growth, considering the fact that even in Q1 FY 2024, there was a impact of seasonal impact on your summer portfolio, so that was that impacted the overall performance of Q1. So considering all these factors, should we expect, you know, double-digit kind of growth for FY 2025?
Yeah. Yes, I agree. We should see a double-digit.
Okay. Okay. And personal care should be something which will, which should continue to grow in double digit, with fair bit of recovery in the food and nutrition. Is that a right understanding?
Yeah. Yes, please.
Okay. And sir, on the distribution front, what is the current touch point for us? And, you know, and, 2025, 2026, where do you expect this distribution touch point to go?
So I think there are two or three things that factors we should look at when we look at distribution. Factors that the organized channel continues to lead demand, because there are consumers who are shifting and these platforms are getting deeper and wider. So maybe whether it's e-com quick commerce or whether whatever be the kind of initiatives they may be doing, and expansion of stores by some of the offline organized retail, the share of organized trade will continue to go up. It's about at 20%. We expect it to continue to 21%- 22% over next one year or two years. From a traditional trade point of view, our products are available close to about 3 million outlets.
Our journey or our plan would be to how do I build it to be available at 3.5 million outlets? That's one. So what does it take to get there? So whole set of initiatives, we're putting in place. The second more important call that we are doing, at least in the next few months, our priority will be to expand our range within the direct outlet reach that we have about 650,000 outlets that we have directly covered, how to expand our portfolio within that, so we have more lines or more SKUs sold within those stores. That would be priority one. Of course, then we can follow it through if we need to expand our direct distribution as well.
But these are set of input parameters, but, the whole value will be when I can take my 3 million outlets availability across my portfolio to a 3.5 over the next two years. That would be my, maybe a little ambitious, but target, given that how we envisage to build our business.
Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the understanding and all the best for the future.
Can we have the next call? Next... Hello? Hello, can you hear us? Hello? Hello? Hello. Hello. Can you hear us? Hello.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. We have the line for the management reconnected.
Yes.
Next question is from the line of Jay Modi from Emkay Investment Managers. Please, go ahead.
Yeah, am I audible, sir?
Yes.
Okay. Sir, my question is around Complan. So with recent controversy about a reclassification of the category, have you seen any end consumer demand getting impacted?
Not really. I think it's just about nomenclatures, which I think has nothing, no impact on consumers. This is largely more regulator-led issues, so the demand stays consistent, like I mentioned, at MAT level. The category has seen a revival with 6.5% growth. We are hopeful that it will stay on course and build further.
Okay. And sir, second was around the industry level demand. So, now that the input inflation is much stable than what we've seen in past years, and a lot of initiatives taken by you and the leader for the category penetration, do we expect this category to grow in double -digits, going forward?
It's hard to say, but our own view is that we will build our strategy around a double-digit growth around the nutritional space that we operate with Complan leading it. The category may or may not see a double-digit growth because there are factors which play both ways, and therefore, that's how we operate.
Got it. Sir, can you give us a rough indication as to how much would Complan be as part of our foods portfolio? Just a rough number, not the exact. I mean, if it is 20, 30, 40-
We don't share. We don't share. Sorry, sorry, we do not share this data.
Okay. And sir, lastly, was around the channel. So we've seen our share on e-commerce going up... Now, is this, are the margins on this channel in line with our traditional trade, or is it margin diluted for us? Any rough indication?
At a gross margin levels, we are able to balance across channels because we have to, we're quite focused on it.
Okay, sir. Great. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Operator, you may press star and one to ask the question. Next question is on the line of Mayur, Wealth Managers. Please go ahead.
Oh, good evening, sir. Am I audible?
Sir, your voice is coming a little muffled. Can you speak through the handset, please?
Hello, is it okay now?
Yes, thank you. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for taking my questions. Actually, just a very high level top-down question. Over the last couple of years, we have seen, you know, many of our things falling in place after this quarter results, when we see, you know, after the, you know, there was a Heinz portfolio which had to be integrated, then COVID came in place. Those issues are behind us, now behind us. Debt levels are, we have become debt-free company. The, the raw material pressure has been now behind us, and we are looking back on the growth path.
With this background in place, will we look at, you know, increasing our expectation, and should we look at increasing our expectation and look at, you know, you know, middle double-digit kind of growth over the next two to three years? Or will we still, as management, continue to believe that we'll be somewhere, you know, the current growth rates to continue in that segment of, you know, maybe around 10-ish kind of level? Or do you think there is a scope for us to now start looking at higher growth growth rates and look at our target of INR 3,500 crores as the revenue target?
So, so we do believe that we have the right capability and inputs as a company to build on a double-digit growth path. We had part of the macro environment we operate, and that's why there were some challenges in the past. But we think with a stable environment, we are on the path to deliver a consistent double-digit growth over the next few years.
So, sir, I understand. But, sir, do you think INR 3,500 crores is three years away, or do you think is it more than that, sir? Just a simple understanding so that we have a better understanding on what do you mean by the kind of growth rate we are looking for, sir.
I do not have a specific number to share, as we don't work on specific guidance. But yes, we are committed to a double -digit, like I mentioned.
Okay. Sir, on the margins front, also, you did mention that, you know, we will look at 17%-18% kind of EBIT over the next two years, right? Sir, did I get that right?
Yes, that's what we want to do. We know it's a little ambitious, given what we have done this year. But we'll work towards it, and we do believe we have a shot at it. We'll see how far we can push.
Sir, in fact, in fact, I had a different way to look at this. Just by the sheer reversion to mean in terms of the last year low margin scenario which we had, and which is now slowly coming back in terms of gross margin improving. If we just do the simple mean reversion and see the previous year, won't you-- wouldn't it be fair for you know to say that we would already be reaching around 16% in in this year itself, if the margins go the way they are, by the simple base effect you know coming back to normalization. So do you think 17%, 18% is will be a is a is a you know it will be a tough task, or it's just that you know the simple mean reversion itself will take us?
So, I think, well, the math is simple, but there is two things you need to keep in mind. There is, costs continue to build up on all your fixed costs, as well as we have managed last couple of years, which was extreme inflation, by optimizing some costs and investments that we need to build on the business. So we, we need a, you know, tightrope walk on balancing our, EBITDA wish list, as well as investing on the brand to build it for the future. So therefore, I would not, hurry on either of this side and balance that. And therefore, 17%-18% is a, is a reasonably optimistic or a, a tough, or challenging task we've taken, and I think because we want to build it sustainably.
Okay. So last financial question I had. We have a... I saw in the cash flow, we had a INR 50 crores inflow on debt side borrowing. What, what would be that?
That was temporary working capital inflow that has been repaid now.
Okay. Okay. So it was only for the March quarter or something like that?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Sir, what would be the cash levels now after this?
So we have mentioned that, you know, we are now debt free, and it's a net cash level, like, net debt is about INR 80 lakhs.
Okay. Okay.
INR 8 lakhs. INR 8 lakhs, sorry.
Sorry?
INR 8 lakhs.
INR 8 lakh?s
It is practically, practically zero. INR 8 lakhs.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
It is INR 8 lakhs.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi, Tarun. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. I have just two basic questions. When I look back last two years, we had a bigger challenge, consumer traction. Our consumer offtake is marred with the discretionary spends, which are low. So just reference slide number eight what you have mentioned that in FY 2024, our food and nutrition portfolio is just remain flat, while personal has grown 17%. So this is one observation. And second, you mentioned that our coverage, direct coverage, is aspiring to get from 6 lakhs- 7 lakhs.
So I'm just trying to build a scenario that, though we know what are the problems which discretionary spends are looking, but internally, maybe what are the top two, three things other than the ad spends, or supporting the brand, which we are trying to change in FY 2025 for food and nutrition portfolio?
So, Shirish, thanks for this question. I think, I've kind of tried to explain this earlier. I think food and nutrition portfolio, though, if we look at last financial year, one of the biggest drivers of our, flattest numbers was the fact that we had a, hard summer where the temperatures were, much lower than they would should be in our key markets. And that, clearly pulled out, and it's one of the largest brands we have. That impacted us. Secondly, we had, double trouble in our sweetener portfolio, where WHO decided to, you know, create a warning with some ways of putting it, and, our Sugarlite came under, a trademark, litigation.
With those two, three largest of the things, and if I can add, maybe Nutralite, when the oil prices dropped, our value growth reduced, volume was better. So overall, therefore, our value growth looked much lower than what it could have been or should have been in a normal situation. Having said this, I think as we come back to normalcy in any medium period of time, two to three years, we should see a double-digit growth. We should see Glucon-D coming back on growth path, and we have no reason to believe anything less than that, where all our actions in place. Similarly, for sweetener, we are already seeing a revival with Sugar Free Green leading it, but other portfolio not losing so much. And similarly, we have launched I'm Lite, which will take care of our blended sugar opportunity.
These put together, Complan is seeing good single-digit right now. So we should see at least that category seeing a good single-digit growth. We should see a decent double-digit opportunity on food and nutrition. Personal care anyway has been on a double-digit despite the market, and our belief is that we are gaining from competition in some of these spaces, so we are well equipped to build our business. Your question on traditional trade distribution, I think, like I mentioned to some earlier participant, my priority will be to take our 30 lakh outlets or 3 million outlet availability to 3.5 million outlet availability.
6-7, because we have 6.3 lakhs- 6.2 lakhs , which, you know, varies depending upon the category and season. That we do want to take it up, but the eventual goal is have more products going through the same outlets, so widening my portfolio within what I cover, and overall, my distribution or availability going up to 3.5 million. So those are few things that we are driving. We anyway know organized trade, which is mix of offline, modern trade, as well as e-commerce, are building up, and we are participating reasonably well while gaining shares in those markets. So we are well-rounded on this whole growth journey.
Well, that's really helpful. I'm just trying to build in mind that when you move from 6 lakhs to 7 lakh direct coverage, and you are at 3 million to become 3.5 million. So which category will have, given the current scenario, if it continues another one or two quarter, which category will have the positive effect to our numbers? I'm just trying to derive, not trying to build the numbers.
So across the portfolio, I am seeing clearly personal care categories. Nielsen has not caught up with the numbers, both Nycil and Everyuth distribution. Given the smaller price packs have expanded substantially in these categories for us, they should have captured much more. So we do expect those are clear drivers. Similarly, in the food and nutrition portfolio, we've been able to expand our, you know, presence. So there also, most of the brands, including say Complan or Glucon-D, could also expand on that.
This distribution expansion is largely within the cities where we are present, or this is the newer markets we are opening?
Substantially within the markets we are already available. Of course, in some of the lower POPs data, we'll go deeper as well.
Okay.
It's a mix.
Okay. My second question is that when you look at 2023 and the Q4 full year number, what is the international contribution, and what are the plans which we are trying to build this business over the next two to three years?
So, at the international business level for the full year, we are about 3.5%-4% range. This being range-bound, because, if I were to break it down into three geographies or three focus markets-
Sure.
Namely, we've talked about it, Africa, led by Nigeria, India subcontinent, which is Bangladesh, Nepal, and there is GCC in the Middle East. We've seen good double-digit growths in both GCC as well as India subcontinent, and we believe these will be significant growth drivers for us over the next three, four years. Nigeria, which is one of our largest markets, has been under pressure in last one year because of the macroeconomic and currency issues, demonetization and whole lot of those things. Once that is sorted, we believe one of the strongest equity for our brands is there. So all of these markets can really help us double our business every three, three years maybe, if I were to look at it, maybe faster.
We'll have to see those numbers, whatever it plays out, but they can definitely increase our share of overall business to 7%-8% that we want to do sooner than later.
Okay. My last question on the margin. When I look, this quarter, our ad spends has reached up. Obviously, we had the gross margin lever. So what kind of ad spends we should build for FY 2025? I don't want the number. If it is remaining at similar level, will go up from here. And, if barring apart the commodity prices, which is there, which can track, but what are the internal levers in terms of cost synergies or cost management, which you think especially we can go to 17%-18% EBITDA margin?
So I'll just answer in summary, because if you need more detailed questions, we can pick it up separately.
Sure.
But, quickly speaking, I think, we've upped our investments, largely to come back to our levels that we wanted to operate closer to 13%-14% of, ad spends. But going forward, I don't think we see a substantial increase. They may happen one-off, led by some initiatives, but rather we'll try and maintain a similar level. Margin expansion is led by the fact that our growth will come back to double -digit. We will, continue to improve our gross margins and have operating leverage. I can get into more details, but then it needs a separate discussion, which you can pick it up with Saumil, and we can have this conversation.
Sure. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, remember to press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Varun Singh. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you. First question is, what is your reading on rural recovery?
So our read is that there is a improvement in rural recovery. Some of our brands showing it. Some of the data from the industry has also shown that there is improvement, so we are hopeful that it will only get better in its coming quarters.
So in our portfolio, compared to last quarter, if you would like to call out some numbers with regards to how much the improvement appears to be for you?
So at an overall level, it's quite balanced across the whole, across all categories and channels. So we've been fair across.
Okay, understood. And sir, my second question is on Glucon-D. Maybe if you would like to call out your observation, analysis, et cetera, like, before COVID and after COVID, how the category has grown and, maybe, anything structural, observation in, into this category. If you can share some insight, that will be helpful.
I think Glucon-D has seen consistent penetration. It's only during the COVID that it had dropped substantially, but otherwise, we've seen a consistent penetration increase with the consumers.
Okay, sure. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. Participants, remember star and one to ask a question. Next follow-up question is from the line of Mayur, from Wealth Managers. Please go ahead.
Hello. Sir, thank you for taking my question. Sir, given that Glucon-D is a summer, largely summer product for us, and last year, the... You know, we, as you said, that key markets and key geographies were impacted due to summer being impacted again. Would you—And, when we see the commentary here, the, you know, the, food and nutrition is, you know, much lower compared to little. Would you say that the growth has been much lower than your expectations and should have been much better given the, you know, good summer this year and given the low base effect last year?
There is no base effect in January, February, March. I think growth has been quite on the expected lines, given the macroeconomic factors, so I think it's quite balanced. This is also a quarter when a lot of trade loading happens, so we have to see the Glucon-D over a January-June period to really establish how the season has been.
Right. So you believe a large part of the recovery in growth and demand would actually be more witnessed in, as we go ahead, in the go forward quarter rather than the-
Yes.
Sorry, your voice was breaking. Hello?
Yes.
Oh, okay. Okay. Sir, second is a clarificatory question and not intended with respect to the company's strategy as such. But the Sugar Free, the new brand which the sugar substitute which you have I'm Lite also has, you know, on the face of it, has, you know, lower calorie as a one of the key aspect. And as per WHO, that has been something that the sugar substitutes can't do. So is there something which we believe that it will... These situations won't come to India or won't be implemented in India? Or is something different, our understanding with respect to regulatory aspect?
Because on the face of it, not that I'm an expert, I'm just asking your view on your understanding on it.
I'm Lite is a blended sugar. It's not a sugar substitute. It has stevia blended with sugar, so I think it is not in the purview of the WHO, as we understand.
Okay. So it won't come under the purview of sugar substitute and that is all?
No.
Okay. Okay. Finally, the third question on Everyuth. Sir, do we have any B2B business on, the, you know, on this segment of the, in, on, in this category? Or is it all B2C largely?
All B2C.
Do we have any intent to tie up or go for B2C, B2B segments over here, or we'll remain a B2C off?
We are focused on B2C, but we always look at all opportunities that come our way.
Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. As there are no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you for your patience and diligent questions. We'll see you next quarter.
Thank you very much. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.