Somany Ceramics Limited (BOM:531548)
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595.85
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At close: Sep 23, 2026
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Q3 23/24

Feb 2, 2024

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Somany Ceramics Limited Q3 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Asian Markets Securities Private Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Actual results may differ from such expectations, projections, et cetera, whether expressed or implied. Participants are requested to exercise caution while referring to such statements and remarks. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone.

Please note that the conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhatelia from Asian Markets Securities Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Thanks. Hi all. We welcome you all to the Somany Ceramics 3Q nine-month FY 2024 Earnings Call hosted by Asian Markets Securities. From the management side, we have Mr. Abhishek Somany, Managing Director, Mr. Sailesh Raj, CFO, and Kumar Sunit, Head Strategy IR, and Ameya Somany, Manager. I will now hand over the call to Abhishek sir for his opening remarks and course speech. We shall open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, Abhishek. Thank you.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Thank you so much. Welcome ladies and gentlemen for the earnings call for quarter three. This quarter has been a muted quarter for the entire industry.

Operator

This call is now being recorded.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Earnings Call for Q3 for Somany Ceramics. Joined with me are Shrivatsa Somany, my brother, who looks after the bathroom business and Sailesh, CFO and Kumar Sunit, his colleague. This quarter we have had a muted growth, as with most of the industry. It has been a flattish quarter for us. Capacity utilization as a result has been down from 91% in Q2 to about 82%, so about 8%-10%, 9% down in capacity utilization in the tiles business. We have, again, grown a little bit which is basically more or less a flat quarter. However, costs have been under control. So the EBITDA, the PBT and the PAT has become better. That is largely on the backing of a lot of our non-performing JV which has started performing.

Material has been moved from there and we have done a lot of line balancing. If you remember, I had mentioned this in Q2. That has paid results. Q2 we had broken even in pretty much every JV and in Q3 all are in profit and going forward that would be the same trend. It would only get better from here for the JVs. The overall capacity utilization is at 81%. The ceramic PBT and GVT mix pretty much remains the same. In favor of GVT we have gone up to 34% from 32% and ceramic and PBT have come down. Ceramics has come down to 36% and PBT remains flat. Bathware we have grown at 8%. 16% is for bath fittings and a mere 3% is for the sanitaryware business.

Overall gas pricing, just the gas pricing, not my blended cost of other fuels, just the gas cost has been approximately at INR 44 and we believe that this will remain in the range of between INR 46 and INR 47 for this quarter four, but I can get back to you with the blended cost at a later time of the various other fuels which we are using. This is purely for gas. Other than that, the average capacity utilization for sanitaryware has been 60% and for faucets it is a healthy 80%, which is better than the last quarter. We have kept our focus on the balance sheet. There we have improved a little bit or remained more or less flat. Our short-term borrowing has gone down. At a consol level the better days are at 40 which remains the same even though the market has been under pressure.

Inventories has remained flat and creditors again from 56 to 78. The total working capital days is at 10 days. The total debt in the JVs, which is generally a question where Somany Ceramics has no guarantee, it's a standalone debt at the standalone JV level is about 324 crore out of which two of the entities have the bulk of the debt, which is Sudha Somany, the south plant, which is 140 and 85 in the brand new Max plant. Glad to announce that we have concluded the share buyback of INR 125 crore. That went very successfully and it was oversubscribed approximately 6x . Other than that, the other highlights are the Max plant, the Somany Max plant, we have started commercial production on the 29th of January.

The plant was fired in early part of Q3, which is October, and we have started commercial production in January 29th. That was launched in Bombay and in Delhi and it was very well received. Part one of the launch was a thick 15 mm tile and we will now be doing another launch for the 9 millimeter tile. This particular product we have re-engineered and we are really not calling it a tile. We're calling it Coverstone. The brand name has been kept as Coverstone, which is going to be taking on to other slabs, tile slabs, marble, granite, and other materials. We are actually not calling it a tile, although it is ceramic, but it is called Coverstone. The brand positioning is also changing to that effect. The other highlight is the SREI bonds.

We had an INR 18.44 crore of SREI bonds, out of which we have received the resolution grant from the authorities of INR 4.61 crore, which we will get back in time, out of which INR 1.3 crore is already received, and the balance also will be received within the next couple of quarters, what we are given to understand. So approximately 30% of the 18.44 will be recovered. Another highlight is the Board has decided to invest in solar power to reduce our electricity bill for the Haryana plant. So INR 3.76 crore we are investing in solar power SPV. That should start getting benefit from quarter three of this year, hopefully. Lastly, the advertising spends have gone up for us. We have concentrated a lot on advertising and further brand building, which has also helped us to deepen our penetration and distribution.

The net distribution addition this year would be in line with last year, approximately 300 new net addition of dealers. The advertising spend is approximately 3% higher than the rest of the spend, and we will maintain the 2.75% of the annual spend for our advertising. You would have seen a lot of our advertising on TV lately, a lot more in the south of India, because that's where our maximum concentration was. As you can see, the EBITDA and the PBT and PAT are healthy growing, and we are hoping that this would only get better in quarter four. As far as the guidance for quarter four is concerned, we do believe that we will be able to drive growth of between 5% and 7% in quarter four.

And for next year, we should be able to do 5%, 6% higher than industry growth as far as the growth is concerned. As far as the EBITDA is concerned, the EBITDA this quarter also would have been 10+, but it was owing to the lower capacity utilization of our standalone plant, of our own plant. Therefore, we have not been able to achieve 10%, but we are pretty sure that would be the figure in quarter four, anywhere between the current figure and 10%, maybe a little more depending on the sale. And next year, again, we should be. This quarter has been muted, but the long-term view is very positive. If you have seen in the budget, they have been extremely positive towards housing. So I think we are very well-poised to start utilizing all our capacity in the next year.

All the new capacity which we have put in, which is approximately INR 600 crore of investment in the last 24 months, all of that will come into stream, and we should see capacity utilization upwards of 90% for next year. Extremely bullish for next year, and these hiccups are part of the game, so really not very concerned. We do keep our focus on the balance sheet. So going forward, there is a lot of headroom to only improve from here. So this is the four highlights and the general working of the company, and I am now happy to open the floor to Q&A. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone wishing to ask a question may please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

Hello. Thank you for the opportunity.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Sure.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

I want to understand more about demand in Q3. Till H1, we are seeing demand 6%, 7% volume growth. All of a sudden, there is a drop in Q3. What has changed? We are expecting demand to pick up. Still no color is visible. What is your sense on the demand side?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

I think the demand since October has literally tanked for pretty much every industry, be it sanitaryware, bath fittings. I understand that even industry leader Jaquar is lagging this quarter. Overall, the demand has come off especially in the north. That has been a little bit of a concern. It is not something so significant which one needs to worry about. It is flat for pretty much everybody. Most of the industries in the building material have faced it, other than the pipes.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

But how should we see the industry leader demand momentum remains same what they have done in H1. They did better or possibly we have not done good. How should we read this?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

They had the launch of their Mega Slab plant in September, and that got into commercial production. They were able to push approximately INR 30 crore, INR 35 crore of material in the quarter three, considering they started the plant in quarter two itself. They got that boost. Other than that, they have done better sales than us in the south of India. Those are the two highlights where they have done that extra INR 50 crore, INR 60 crore of the sales. We should be able to make it up because we are doing our launch of the same product very soon, either this month or sometime early next month. We should be able to cover some of the growth, and next year looks extremely positive.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

Understood. So coming to the bathware and sanitaryware side, still it's a low double-digit type of growth. When should we expect the growth, like 20%, 30%? And if you can give individual split of sanitaryware and bathware growth.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

I don't see it growing at 20%, but I do see it growing at between 12% and 15%. And this quarter, we've had a little bit of a slow growth in sanitaryware, but bath fittings have grown at 16%. So overall, blended is about 9.5% growth. We should be able to do anywhere between 12% and 16% for next year, pretty certainly.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

But why will the target be something like 15% on such a small business? Possibly, why not target something like 20%, 30% to possibly gain some market share?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

The reason for that, sir, is that at the end of the day, when you go out to buy sanitaryware, you're still not thinking of the challenger brands like us. You still think of buying sanitaryware out of Hindware, Parryware, Cera, Kohler, et cetera. It's the same story for every other brand. So if you were going to buy, let's say, sanitaryware, you're not thinking of Astral, or you're not thinking of Asian Paints. They also make the same thing. So I think we're in that cycle. So a lot more advertising has to be done for people to really even recognize us as a sanitaryware brand. So this is a slow, time taking process. Now at the INR 300 crore level, I don't think 20%-25% growth would be possible unless we disproportionately spend on advertising, which we are trying to, but beyond the point, it's not sustainable.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

Understood. Point taken. Quarter three, can you give location-wise gas cost by location?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yeah. The North we had 42, Morbi was 47, and South was 54.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

Okay. Got it.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

INR 54 per standard cubic meter.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

Got it. One last question from my side. As there is an export slowdown from Morbi and possibly the year-end approaching, should we expect higher incentive, which might lead to more correction in realization, which can put pressure on margin side?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

No.

Keshav Lahoti
Analyst, HDFC Securities

No, nothing of the sort. Thank you. That is it.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in this conference, we request you to limit your questions to two per participant only. We will move on to the next question. That is on the line of Sneha from Nuvama. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Thanks a lot for the opportunity, sir. Just a couple of questions from my end. In your presentation, there's an other segment that we could see. Is that the adhesives business that we are doing? If yes, what's the strategy here? Are we doing trading? What's the number looking like and what's the vision here?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yeah. So that's adhesive, and we're looking at growing that aggressively. Adhesives and a little bit of other things, geysers, adhesives, et cetera. We should be growing that as a construction chemical division going forward, but currently it's limited by the adhesive business.

Speaker 5

Understood. Secondly, just wanted to get your clarity in terms of what the CapEx going ahead and what was the response from the recent product launch that we saw, which was the Coverstone plant.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

The CapEx plan for the next 12 months is nothing other than maybe INR 15 crore-INR 20 crore, which will be going into the Nepal project. Other than that, and that we're looking at, I forgot to mention that. We're looking at commercial production somewhere at quarter three of this year. So that is the only CapEx. Other than that, it's the routine CapEx. As far as the product launch is concerned, we broke up the product launch into two verticals. One is Coverstone 15, which is the 15-millimeter tile. That's a very difficult tile to produce and many bodies. That got a good response. Obviously, the sales of that particular product is not super high. But we thought of doing that first because if we had launched the 9-millimeter tile, we would have been overwhelmed by servicing the market, and then this 15 would have got very delayed.

We took a commercial call, an executive decision taken by me to do the 15 millimeter first, which took a month and a half to two to develop, because otherwise, from moving from nine and taking a gap of a month and a half to two to develop the 15 would have been impossible. Nine is a very easy product, the nine millimeter. What we did is we did that launch first, which was very well received in the market. It's a beautiful product. It's much better than anybody in the competition, even industry leader, for that matter. Now the second launch is going to be done in this quarter, which would be for the 9 millimeters. We're preparing for that, and that we'll be relaunching fairly quickly. That was the difference which was there between us in Q3 and between us and industry leader.

We should be able to push that material very aggressively. That's the more of the vanilla item, so to say, from a big slab point of view. It's really not vanilla, but it's a relative statement I'm making for the big slab plant.

Speaker 5

Understood, sir. Well done. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir. All the very best.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Thank you, ma'am.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.

Yogesh Patil
Analyst, Dolat Capital

Thanks for taking my question, sir. My question is related to Indian exports of ceramic products. Can you tell us how much exports are impacted due to the Red Sea disruptions? How much cost of transportation has increased? After all, are you still able to compete in the European market with the competitors? That is the first one.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

I am really the wrong person to ask this question because our export is under 3% of revenue. We do not get so impacted because we supply more value-added products which are not super price sensitive. Our average realization in export is absolutely identical to India, maybe slightly better. It is to 71 countries. We are the wrong people to do. Our total export this year would be about INR 60 crore- INR 65 crore. I think this question would be better answered, in all fairness, by somebody in Morbi who does massive exports. That particular industry is doing INR 22,000, INR 23,000 crore this year of exports. What I do understand is that it has had a little bit of an impact in exports. These are all momentary, temporary impacts. It will sort out and the demand will again boost. Your second question was?

Yogesh Patil
Analyst, Dolat Capital

Sir, my second question is, as you said, you are the right person to get more knowledge on the export side. Considering the slowdown in exports, also wanted to know the domestic demand. How is it panning out, and do you feel any kind of pressure on the domestic demand side?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

A lot of the plants which were export-oriented haven't been able to really push too much material in the domestic because they're kind of unbranded. They mostly are OEM suppliers. But yes, there has been pressure of that also in Q3 and continues to be in Q4 but nothing more than what it was there in Q3. Q3 was as bad because Europe continues to curve and completely shuts down, and all the Christmas shopping is done in October. November, December is completely dead as far as any shipment is concerned. I think this would remain the same in the next quarter because of the Red Sea issue.

Yogesh Patil
Analyst, Dolat Capital

And last one. As you mentioned, the gas cost of INR 47 per SCM for the Gujarat region. Is this a pipe natural gas or propane?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

I'm talking of only natural gas. The blended, we do use some rice husk and mustard, tur, et cetera. The blended cost of that is slightly lower. What I mentioned is purely natural gas.

Yogesh Patil
Analyst, Dolat Capital

Okay, thanks. Thanks a lot, sir.

Operator

Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Karan Bhatelia from Asian Markets Securities. Please go ahead.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

May I listen?

Operator

Yes, sir. Please proceed.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Yeah. Obviously, it is quite some time that Morbi is due a price hike because we have seen some increase in that in Gujarat gas prices, but they have not taken a price hike yet. How do you see selling price shaping up for Morbi as the reason?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Selling price in Morbi has only gone down. They have discounted material. They have also increased their revision. So on both accounts, they have not been able to take in this pressured market any gas price hikes. They have not been able to pass it on. That continues to be the same, and I do not think the Morbi price is going to go up now. It already went up to 47, maybe a rupee or two here and there. I doubt they will put up any pricing in this quarter. They will probably be concentrating on selling more volumes.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Right. Also with the fact that export remains slightly challenging given the macro environment. Have we seen some dumping to the domestic market, or they prefer to take a cut on the production?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

They have taken a cut on production. They are under 70% capacity utilization. This could be channel checked again or maybe Morbi checked again by you guys. You can get this exact amount from the three associations there.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Sure. You did wonderful work with respect to balance sheet quality. How do you see your debt repayment on the console level for next two years and the stable working capital profile from here on?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yeah. I will let Sailesh, our CFO, answer that question.

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

Working capital, at standalone level, we do not utilize working capital. I think we have got enough funds, so we are not utilizing working capital. At console level in few of our subsidiaries, including Max, we will be utilizing working capital. That would be close to less than INR 100 crore number, I think, overall. And balance is towards the term loan, which will get repaid over next three to four years.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yeah.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

On an average, we keep repaying INR 35 crore - INR 40 crore annually on a console level. A standalone, obviously we do not have any long-term.

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

Right.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

I was looking at your Max numbers. Correct me if the asset turns are less than 1.5 times because we will be doing peak revenue of INR 2.5 billion on an investment of INR 175 crore. My understanding was likely higher asset turns for this CapEx.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

No, you are very right. What we have projected is for the first year, first 18 months, because it will ramp up to make more value add. This particular plant, let's say if we had to 100% produce value added and sell 100% of the value added only, then this could give us close to. Just give me a second. It can give us close to about INR 225 crore, INR 280 crore.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

But that still is below 2x of asset terms. Somewhere our understanding was this product category garners a much better realization profile.

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

I will just add it here. This number you are looking, this is at the Max standalone number. When Max sells to Somany and Somany gives it to the dealers, this number is going to be better, right? You are referring to the disclosure which we have given. This is for the specific plant.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Right. Okay.

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

This does not include the value which will come to Somany.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Okay. Got it.

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

The asset turn will be more than this.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

More than 2 x, correct to assume?

Sailesh Raj
CFO, Somany Ceramics

I would not say more than 2 x.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

It would be about 1.7 x, 1.8x .

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Right. Now that we are already done with INR 600 crores of CapEx in last two years and bulk of it was on the value addition. Can we now see some improvement with respect to GVT and value adds for next 12- 18 months?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

100%.

Karan Bhatelia
VP of Institutional Equities, Asian Markets Securities

Okay. That's it, ma'am, from my end.

Operator

Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star and 1. The next question is on the line of Sneha from Nuvama. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Thanks a lot. Just a follow-up, sir. Any reason why our tax rate is higher?

Operator

Sorry to interrupt, Sneha. There is a lot of disturbance from your line.

Speaker 5

Is it better now?

Operator

Yes, much better. Thank you.

Speaker 5

Just wanted to check, any reason why?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Can't hear you, Sneha.

Speaker 5

I was asking, is there any reason why our tax rate was higher during the quarter? Sorry.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

No, tax rate was higher during the quarter.

Speaker 8

No, it's nothing like that. It's the same range. Just a small change, plus minus. Otherwise, it's the same rate, Sneha.

Speaker 5

Okay, sir. I'll actually check with you offline then.

Speaker 8

Sure.

Speaker 5

Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Yeah. Hi, sir. A couple of questions. Sir, one is, was it possible for us to quantify the number corresponding to paying agent arrangements? This number was around INR 59 crores on FY 2023 balance sheet basis.

Speaker 8

Yeah. FY 2023 number was lower because that was the time when we transited to this arrangement and going forward it has gone up.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sir, can you quantify how much would it be approximate first half or probably nine-month basis?

Speaker 8

I would say, let me explain in other way around, Ritesh. What happened in short-term borrowing number INR 150 crore was the number which was reflecting as a short-term borrowing. Whereas that number has come down to zero now. Because during Q4 and Q1 the transition happened and then now it's completely under the trade payable arrangement and nothing is reflecting in our short-term borrowing.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Okay. But sir, would it be possible for you to quantify if you can broadly give a number or probably I'll take it offline?

Speaker 8

Yeah, sure, why not? But I told you it's an INR 150 crore number which was in our short-term borrowings in March 2023, which is now zero.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

No, I'm asking specifically for paying agent arrangements. So this number INR 60 crores you said would have moved up. So would that number be around INR 150 crores? That's how I should understand.

Speaker 8

Close to INR 200.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Close to INR 200. Okay, that helps. Sir, my second question is basically, if I just look at the last two FY 2023 and FY 2022 numbers, there is capitalization of cost, that number was INR 76 crores on 31st March FY 2023 basis. Is it possible to quantify that number on either first half or nine-month basis?

Speaker 8

We can discuss it offline because we have not come out with the balance sheet for December period, so I can give you that number offline.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Okay, perfect. That is it, sir. Thank you so much. I will join by then. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the line of Utkarsh Nopany from BOB Capital. Please go ahead.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

Yeah, hi. Good evening, sir. My first question is that, if we see the sales volume breakup, our own manufacturing tiles sales volume has gone down in December quarter despite increase in our capacity. But there has been a sharp increase in the traded tiles volume. Can you please explain the rationale for this?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

The increase has been from Sudha Somany and also a little bit from the Somany Piastrelle plant. Which is actually wholly owned subs. Both of them have shot up, therefore it is showing in the traded, but it actually deemed our own plant only. When we refer to the capacity utilization lower in our own plants, we are only looking at our Kadi and Kassar, which are not subs.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

Okay. Sir, just need one clarification on the capacity data which was mentioned in the presentation. As per our presentation, our capacity has gone up from 75 MSM to 80 MSM on a quarter-on-quarter basis. And we have also divested our stake in one of our JV in Somany Fine Vitrified in September quarter. Can you please provide clarity that why our capacity has gone up in December quarter?

Speaker 8

Yeah, sure. Utkarsh, that is actually our access to capacity. That is not our capacity of 80 million square meter, which we talk about always. And that is because currently we are outsourcing close to 18 million sq m. Then 62 million sq m capacity within our own plant and JV. These two things put together give us access to capacity of 80 million sq m.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

Okay.

Speaker 8

What you are referring to, fine. Yes, this is after adjusting the Somany Fine Vitrified divestment, which we have done. But at the same time, our outsourced number has gone up, and Somany Max is also kicking in January.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

Okay. And sir, lastly, our net debt has gone down sharply on a year-over-year basis from INR 429 crore to INR 172 crore, but it is not getting reflected in our interest cost. Our interest cost has remained the same. Why is it so?

Speaker 8

I think just few minutes back, the clarification was given. I just reiterate quickly. It's more because of change in arrangement, wherein earlier we used to our line of credit, and that was reflecting as a short-term borrowing, even at a standalone level. Which was not actually a borrowing, it was a paying agent arrangement done for our suppliers. And interest cost is on our vendors' account only. We are not supposed to bear the cost. That has moved from short-term borrowing to trade payable. That's why that movement in borrowing is appearing on YoY basis. But it's not actually the borrowing.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

The quarterly interest run- rate is likely to go up post our buyback program?

Speaker 8

No, it should not. Because buyback was done out of the surplus cash available with us, it will not have any impact on our interest cost as such.

Utkarsh Nopany
Analyst, BOB Capital

Okay. Thanks a lot, sir.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the line of Hrishikesh Bhagat from Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Hrishikesh Bhagat
Analyst, Kotak Mutual Fund

Good evening. Thank you for this opportunity. Just want your thought, how are we thinking from the future CapEx point of view? Where I'm coming from, when I look at your peer, say, closest competitor, I think clearly they are trying to create capacity or probably looking, going ahead with CapEx, despite the recent demand turmoil that we are seeing in the industry. In our case, we are, as you highlighted in the comment, that probably CapEx beyond Nepal, there is not much. I think when I look at your presentation, you are already at 83% utilization. How are we thinking on terms of creating our own capacity?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Hi, Hrishikesh. Yeah, very good question. I would like to clarify that. The CapEx which we have done in the last 24 months, ballpark, is the same amount of CapEx which industry, my nearest competition has done on a much higher base. If you look at the same amount of millions of square meters which have come in for him as capacity versus us as capacity, ours is approximately 25%-26% increase in capacity from, let us say, 24 or 28 months. I'm just giving you a ballpark of 24 months. We've increased capacity by about 25% to 26%, whereas his capacity increase has been slightly under 20%. I have already made a CapEx of the same amount at a much lower base, right, in absolute terms. Which means that what he is doing now this year, I've already done.

12 - 18 months from now, we would probably be announcing our next CapEx for augmenting capacity. I hope I'm able to answer that question.

Hrishikesh Bhagat
Analyst, Kotak Mutual Fund

Sure. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the line with Jenish Karia from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if you could just give us some information about how January has panned out in terms of demand. Secondly, we are targeting a growth of 5%-6% in the fourth quarter on a YoY basis. That is what you mentioned. So that translates into around 18.5 million sq m of volume. How do we plan to achieve it in the fourth quarter?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Jan also has been sluggish, but we have grown in low- single- digits. So there has been a growth considering that we had put a lot of pressure in December. So January from that point is slightly better, but still sluggish. Hopefully February and March should be even better and we should be able to grow in the mid- single- digits.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

I understand, sir. If we are targeting a mid-single- digit growth on a YoY basis, that translates into high- teen growth on a sequential basis. Considering January has very sluggish, any plans of action whether we will give additional incentives to dealers, re-realizations?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Much better than the first month of your quarter three, let's put it that way. If you look at it from quarter- to- quarter, it's been much better than October. Also from YoY, January we have grown. We are hoping that with the push of year-end and a lot of government spendings, et cetera, we should be able to be in growth and not be flat like we are in this quarter.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

Okay. Last quarter, we had given an annual volume guidance of high- single- digit.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yeah. I don't see that happening because of quarter three. We should be in the same range. If we grow at mid-single- digits, we should be in the same range as what it is now, maybe a percent better.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

That's helpful, sir.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

It's been an aberration this quarter. I have not seen this kind of quarter in some time. That's okay. Part of the game. Not overly worried, as long as we keep our focus on the balance sheet, keep our focus on our quality and the Somany Max plant launching.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

Understood, sir. Just one last question on the margin front. We are very confident that we will be achieving near 10% margin in this quarter.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Yes.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

However, with the Somany Max plant coming online, do you think that with slight increase in the gas cost that you guided and the plant ramping- up, the margins can be maintained compared to our guidance that we are giving?

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

No, we should be in the control as far as Somany Max is concerned. The caveat, of course, is if something happens with the gas price, whether it goes up by INR 10 or INR 15 or something else happens, that's a separate issue. But in this range of INR 46 - INR 47, we should be under control.

Jenish Karia
Analyst, Antique Stock Broking

Sure. That's helpful. Thank you so much and all the best.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star and one. As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Somany for his closing comments.

Abhishek Somany
Managing Director, Somany Ceramics

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Like I said, extremely bullish going forward. The Somany Max plant has come up very well, and we are looking forward to growth in sanitaryware, bath fittings, and tiles team is working relentlessly to make sure that we do much better quarter- on- quarter. Like I said, mentioned with the balance sheet discipline, we should only get better as far as our pricing and EBITDA is concerned. So very excited for the next year and would love to welcome you on the annual results conference call sometime in May. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Asian Markets Securities Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.