Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Cyient Limited's Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and anyone who wishes to ask a question may enter star and one on their touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the queue, please enter star and two. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Bodanapu, Executive Vice Chairman and Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Cyient Limited's earnings call for the fourth quarter of financial year 2023. I am Krishna Bodanapu, the Executive Vice Chairman and Managing Director of Cyient. Present with me on this call are Mr. Karthikeyan Natarajan, the Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director, Mr. Ajay Aggarwal, the just retired Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Prabhakar Atla, the new Chief Financial Officer for the company. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's discussions may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available in our investor update, which has been emailed to you and is also posted on our corporate website. This call will be accompanied with an earnings presentation.
The details of the same have also been shared with you. Before I begin with the highlights, let me explain some of the terminologies that are used in the presentation. Much of it will be familiar, but we have re-grouped a few things, so I want to make sure that we give a clear understanding of what these are. When we say core services, that's the organic services business of Cyient, so this wouldn't include any of our acquisitions or the design-led manufacturing business. Consolidated services is these core services, plus the acquisitions that were made in financial year 23. Group is consolidated services and DLM, the manufacturing business of Cyient. Transportation is a segment that includes aerospace and rail transportation. Connectivity is a segment that includes communication. Sustainability is a segment that includes mining, energy, and utilities.
New growth areas includes medical, semiconductor, high tech, and automotive, which are essentially the areas that we're investing aggressively for accelerated growth. The markets regulator, Securities and Exchange Board of India, SEBI, has provided an observation letter to Cyient DLM Limited to go ahead with the proposed public offering. As you all know, we are in the SEBI-mandated quiet period. Therefore, the management cannot respond to any queries in connection with the proposed IPO of Cyient DLM Limited or the DLM business and operations. With this, let me take you through the highlights for the quarter. In US dollar terms, we posted revenue of $213 million for the group. This represented a growth of 39.1% year-on-year in constant currency, 35.9% in U.S. dollars.
This also represented a growth of 6% quarter-on-quarter in constant currency or 8.1% in $. I would like to highlight that what is especially impressive is that there was no further acquisitions in Q3. Q3 versus Q4 is a like-for-like comparison without any inorganic bump that we got. In INR terms, we posted a quarterly revenue of INR 1,751 crores, which signifies a growth of 48.3% year-on-year and 8.2% quarter-on-quarter. Consolidated services revenue stood at $176.2 million, which is a growth of 38.4% year-on-year in constant currency and 35% in $. This also represented a 3.2% quarter-on-quarter growth in constant currency.
Core services revenue is at 12% year-over-year and 2.6% quarter-on-quarter in constant currency. Normalized group EBITDA margin was at 18.4%, which was up 118 basis points quarter-on-quarter and 30 basis points year-over-year. Normalized group EBIT was 14.2%, which was up 136 basis points quarter-on-quarter, down 21 basis points year-over-year. I'd just like to highlight that much of this is because of the amortization that has come in the last few quarters because of the acquisitions. Therefore, if you look at the group EBITDA margin, things look quite good and look quite healthy. Normalized consolidated services EBIT margin was 15.1%, up 117 basis points quarter-on-quarter and down 27 basis points year-over-year.
Again, for the same reason I mentioned, because much of these were services acquisitions. Sorry. Normalized free cash flow generation for the quarter stood at INR 261 crores or INR 2,614 million, a conversion of 81.8% on a normalized EBITDA basis. This represents one of the highest cash conversions that we've ever had. Normalized PAT stood at INR 1,760 million or INR 176 crores, which represented a growth of 14.1% year-on-year or 8.1% quarter-on-quarter. Given that this is the end of the year, can I also give you a quick overview of the highlights for the full year? Revenue for the first time crossed INR 6,000 crores and stood at INR 6,016 crores, a growth of 32.7% year-on-year.
In U.S. dollar terms, this was $746.3 million, a growth of 26.9% year-over-year in constant currency or 22.7% in U.S. dollars. Consolidated services revenue stood at $632.4 million, which is the highest ever and represented a growth of 30.2% year-over-year in constant currency or 25.6% in U.S. dollars. Core services revenue growth is 12.1% year-over-year in constant currency. Normalized group EBITDA margin was at 17%, down by 110 bps year-over-year. Normalized group EBIT was at 12.8% or down 113 bps, again, for the reasons that I mentioned.
Normalized consolidated services EBIT margin was at 13.7%, down 160 basis points year-on-year. Normalized free cash flow generation for the year was at INR 547 crores, a conversion of 50.8% on EBITDA. Almost 100% conversion on normalized PAT. Normalized PAT for the year was at INR 565 crores, which was up 8.2% year-on-year. I'm also delighted to inform you that we declared the highest ever dividend for the year at INR 26 per share, which included an interim dividend of INR 10, which was declared in October. I would just like to quickly highlight two things for the quarter. The partnership between ThingTrax, which adds to our digital ER&D focus and help our customers improve efficiency and reduce operational costs.
Our partnership with IGBC to inaugurate a center of excellence to drive digital innovation, especially in aerospace and heavy engineering industries. With this, I would like to hand this call over to Mr. Ajay Aggarwal, who will take you through the detailed financial performance for the quarter. Thank you, and over to you, Ajay.
Thank you, Krishna. I will also present two segments. One is quarter four and one is the full year. If you look at the group revenue, Krishna already talked about, you know, the number of $213 million and how we have done compared to the last quarter and how we have done from where we were about a year back at about $156.7 million. This means in constant currency, 39.1% growth year-on-year. Quarter-on-quarter, we are looking at 6.6% constant currency growth. In terms of the breakup of that, you will see that, you know, in the current quarter, we have done about 3.2%.
3% kind of a growth has come from services, and we have got about 8% of growth that has come from 28% kind of a growth that has come from DLM. Overall, if you see, in terms of the share of the geographies, I would say there is some impact of the acquisitions. And also, I think the revenue has been strong. That's what is shown in the trend when you look at the bottom of the chart. For the full year, as Krishna said, we crossed INR 6,000 crores, $746 million for the full year, as against 608, you know.
You all were very concerned that, you know, we got, if you look at the 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, we were stuck at that $550, $60 kind of a range. It's quite a nice 27% jump year-on-year. That takes us to the lead, and I'm sure Krishna will talk about it and Karthik will talk about it. I think whatever expectation we had set looking at the exit quarter of getting to that run rate of $1 billion, I think, we are in line with that. In terms of the consolidated services growth, at constant currency, 30.2%, yes, there is an impact of acquisitions. If you were to exclude that, the core services have grown by 12.1% in constant currency.
In terms of hedge book, I think quite familiar with what we have been presenting. No change in the policy. Total forward contract as of now are about $154 million. At the current spot position of 31st March, more or less we are neutral. I will talk a little bit more about it when I come to the other income. As of now, the gain is about $1 million on the total hedge book. If you look at the income statement, I think, really we take pride in the fact that we have reached 16.1% the margin. There's been tremendous effort in the last few quarters.
We have talked about various initiatives, even in the Investor Day and the year call. That's showing off the impact. We are really looking at good trajectory, 16.1% just for the core, which is a improvement of 100 EBIT quarter-on-quarter. I think number of levers have played. We have got some price hikes we are seeing in the environment. We are able to take, for some customers, price increases. Volume impact of SG&A. Of course, we continue to spend on some investments, whether it is technology or other things that are required. Group EBIT we have seen is 14.2%. One more thing you will see, that, you know, we at EBITDA level we are at 18.4%.
Acquisitions, again, I think what we said earlier, they are accretive at EBITDA level. When you look at the number of, you know, the services, you will find that the EBITDA is positive for acquisitions compared to the core. At EBIT level, due to the amortization of the investment that we have made, there is a gap at EBIT level. That's why we started presenting both EBITDA and EBIT to you so that you can see the operating performance. As we proceed on those acquisitions, you will see that in year two, year three, when we start getting the benefit of synergies as well, I think the gap on the EBIT level will also go down. Some comments in terms of the other items.
I would say on tax, this is the last quarter, so we had a true-up in terms of the benefits of our special economic zone, and other things, around the global taxation. While you look at a tax of 21.3%, I would say, there are one-offs, and what we have to really look at is the tax rate of 24%. That's what is the right tax at current level. Next year, I think there is a slight change in the taxation in U.K. Apart from that, I think trends will be similar. The tax for India, the overall thinking is to look at 25.1%, which is the ordinance rate for the next year.
In terms of the full year, I would say the full year core margin at 14.2% is definitely lower than quarter four. As I said, the trend is really increasing. Whatever we are looking at the various initiatives, we feel that there is further room. Krishna will talk about guidance for the year. There are multiple levers which have acted in quarter three and quarter four, be it the cost program, be it pricing, be it automation. I think we will continue, and you will see these numbers to be very nice. In terms of PAT, as Krishna said, INR 565 crores is the profit that we have delivered for the full year at a normalized level.
Just as a disclosure, in the statements that are there, we have given the EBIT bridge. We've also provided the reconciliation between the reported matrix and the normalized matrix. Some of you who are regular on these calls are already familiar with what have been these items. There are no new additions during this particular quarter to that category of items. I will take them. Yeah, you can read them, and if you have any questions, one of us can take them in terms of the change quarter-on-quarter and full year, in terms of profit, in terms of the margin. In terms of cash generation, you will see that, you know, both the last quarter and this quarter has been very healthy.
We have generated a cash of INR 266 crores during the quarter. Our conversion almost we are close to the net profit is 100% conversion. We have a cash position of INR 1,077 crores. In terms of the total debt that we have is about INR 900 crores. So on a debt basis we are cash positive. So the net debt for the company is 0. Actually we are in excess in terms of cash. You will see our debt equity ratios are coming down. You will see that, you know, here we are very safe on the balance sheet in terms of the debt. Also there is enough room on the balance sheet to be able to, you know, take care of any investments that come our way.
With this, I'll hand over to Karthik to provide the business update.
Thank you, Ajay. Good evening, everyone. I want to start off by saying that it's been an all-around performance across the sales delivery and operational performance. I'm happy to report that the core services have shown eight successive quarter of growth. If we really look at based on the business units that we operate and the transportation, which has shown the growth of 12.9% in terms of quarter-on-quarter in constant currency and 13.1% year-on-year, and we kind of guided that we would have a double-digit growth. I think that's definitely panned out.
Connectivity and, there is a dip of -3.3% quarter-on-quarter in constant currency, while year-on-year it reported 27.1% constant currency. Sustainability business, which is comprising of mining, energy and utility, have shown 3.1% constant currency quarter-on-quarter growth and 125.1% year-on-year, with Citec being included as part of this group. New growth areas, which includes automotive, high tech, medical devices and semiconductors, has supported a mild decline of 0.8% in constant currency and which has shown 34% year-on-year growth.
Interestingly, even the organic core services have shown year-over-year growth across all the four business segments that we operate in, resulting in consolidated services at $176.2 million at 3.2% constant currency growth and core services growing at 2.6% and including acquisition grown by 3.2%. In terms of year-over-year at 38.4% in constant currency. If you look at order intake, we have done about $212.7 million, and this showed about 13.3% from Q4 of fiscal 2022. In constant currency, this is about 19% growth. We also announced about five large deals, and this is covering all the four business segments. I think the large deals as a concept spanning out across our business units.
I'm happy to report that to a total contract potential of $187 million in Q4. If you look at the full year, and similar to what I just covered a few minutes ago, the transport unit, which has done about $188.9 million, had shown year-on-year constant currency growth of 2.6%. Connectivity at $181 million, 32.1%. Sustainability at $139.5, with 86.7%. New growth areas at $122.6 at 39.2% growth. I think this also gives us a very balanced portfolio of four different business segments, and we are really poised for accelerating our growth over the next few years.
For the full year order intake, which is at $720.5 million, and in constant currency, this is about 18.5% higher than what we have done in fiscal 2022. We have won about 18 large deals through the year totaling about $412 million, and this is up by 50% compared to what we have done in fiscal 2022. To move forward to give a larger business outlook, while the challenges continue, dominated by geopolitical issues, wage inflation, interest rates, and also potential signs of economic slowdown. We do feel that our customers' intent to invest on technology and innovation continue to be high. We do believe, with the technology disruption that are happening around us, including the generative AI part, which has picked up momentum in the last 3-6 months.
We are really getting ourselves aligned to address the market needs through what we call them as a technology-led growth, and which is going to be supported by intelligent products and platforms, digital enterprise, which is about digital engineering and technology, and sustainable infrastructure and decarbonization. We believe these three technology groups would accelerate our growth moving forward, and we believe this particular concept of three technology groups would drive growth through this decade and not just for a specific period of time. To get down to specific business units, transportation and recovery of aerospace continue to be there through this year. Also the increase in defense spending and also some of the advanced air mobility solutions will continue to drive growth.
Some of the growth areas we are seeing from our customers include improving their operational efficiency through predictive maintenance and autonomous operations, and how we think we can really provide solutions on these areas. Hybrid propulsion technologies continue to be critical for both Aerospace and Rail and which will bring us additional opportunities for growth. Connectivity, we continue to see a demand even through fiscal 2024. As you remember, this has become the largest vertical for core services two years ago. We continued the run, and we still hope this will continue to be a growth engine for us even into fiscal 2024. Some of the offerings that we have been able to strengthen in this area includes the network management, network operations and optimization, and digitalization are likely to drive growth in this segment. Sustainability.
Probably we are the only Indian company which has really created a focus on sustainability as a core business offering, and by integrating various capabilities that we had and we also acquired over the last 24 months. What we are really talking about in sustainability is about the energy transition, which is requiring new materials in the form of zinc, cobalt, nickel, and increased growth of copper. All this would require new minerals to be mined. Our offerings around intelligent, safe and autonomous mining operations definitely are helping our customers to improve their operational efficiency. Also with energy transition, which is likely to put significant pressure on the utility company to move away from being distribution network operators to distribution system operators.
This is being funded by various government agencies, and we are confident that some of our offerings would fit into these areas. Apart from what we call them as autonomous plant construction, AI-enabled plant design, some of these offerings would really be something the customers would be excited to partner with Cyient. On some of the other growth areas, which includes automotive and led by autonomous and electrification, I think we continue to see momentum in that segment, and we have grown even in Q4. We continue to be hopeful of this being a growth engine for us in fiscal 2024. Medical, which is medical and healthcare, which has taken some pause in the last six months. We expect this to come back to growth path during this year and which is led by predictive, proactive and personalized patient care and connected devices.
Semiconductors, which has done well for us in the last 12 months and probably may take some softening. This is led by miniaturization and also creating AI-enabled chips, and that's going to really drive growth for us moving forward. I also want to take some quick examples of what we have been able to work on driving the solutions led by technology, and whether it is on intelligent products and platforms through predictive maintenance solutions for our leading aircraft operators and working with hydrogen plant projects to build on simulation of electrolyzer stack. Carbon capture systems and power plant projects, which includes the digitalization of plants and helping them to enable 3D and 4D as a service, and this has been one of the asset management platforms we've built through strategic acquisition.
Next-gen connectivity, which includes building design and development of security module for eSIM to manage authentication and access management. This is going to be useful for IoT at scale for one of our customers. Autonomous systems and process, which talks about our ability to build image analytics and integrated with perception systems, has been some of the offerings we have been able to build and demonstrate to our customers. This is likely to create a large win for us during this year. Also with terms of digital platforms and customer experience, whether it is about big data management for one of the mining customers for autonomous excavators or regulatory compliance, which is around the medical device and healthcare. We've been able to bring in a technology-led, robust solution platform that really helps us to win more in the marketplace.
With that, I'll pass it on to Krishna for sharing the slide.
Thank you very much, Karthik. The outlook for the year is as follows.
I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. We are unable to hear you.
Sorry. Thank you very much, Karthik. The outlook for the year is as follows. In FY 2024, we expect consolidated services revenue growth will be in the range of 15%-20% year-over-year. I understand that it is a bit of a wide range, but we're being cautious given what is happening in the market. We still have a very good line of sight within this range, but we wanna make sure that we give a wider range, but we will of course narrow it down through the year.
I just want to say there is a bit of uncertainty in the market, and while we are positioned in some very good industries, and we have a very balanced portfolio with the four pillars that we'll talk about of transportation, connectivity, sustainability, and new growth areas, I think it's just prudent to be conservative at this point, and that's why we're using a wider range, which we will continue to refine through the course of the year. We also expect the consolidated services normalized EBIT will improve by at least 100-200 basis points year-on-year.
Again, that is a bit of a range, but we believe that with the uncertainty, we'd rather be prudent and work towards making the range narrower and hopefully changing some of the guidelines of the range hopefully on the upper side. I'll leave it at that. This is how we look at the year. Before I turn it over to the questions that you may have, I would like to take this time to just acknowledge a few people. Firstly, I want to acknowledge Prabhakar Atla, who will join us now in these calls as the CFO of Cyient. Prabhakar is somebody that I've worked with for 17 years in Cyient, a thorough professional and somebody who understands our business better than anybody else.
He will really be able to give not only a financial perspective, but also a very strong business perspective given his understanding of the business. I also want to thank Srini Kulkarni, who many of you know, managed many things for in Cyient, including FDA, M&A, but in the context of this call, investor relations. As many of you perhaps know already, Srini moves on to Cyient DLM, the Cyient manufacturing subsidiary, as the CFO of Cyient DLM, and obviously has a very exciting role with the impending IPO and then hopefully the very exciting growth trajectory that business is on. Having said that, most importantly, I would like to thank Mr. Ajay Agarwal.
Ajay has been a friend, a philosopher, a guide, and somebody who's worked very closely with me for the last 12 years as we went through this journey of making Cyient a best-in-class company. As many of you will agree, Ajay's dedication and professionalism are second to none. What he brought to Cyient has really been reflected, not just in the performance and the numbers, but I hope in also the credibility that Cyient as a company holds with all of you. Thank you very much, Ajay. Ajay will continue consulting with the company on a few things. We will see him, but perhaps less so with you. I will quickly hand it over to Ajay to say a few words before we open it up for Q&A.
Thank you very much, Krishna. I just would take two seconds for every quarter, so that makes it 90 seconds. I have a statement to say. I am honored to have the opportunity to serve as the CFO. I would say your CFO to the people on the call. I want to take a moment to reflect the progress that we have made together. During my tenure, we have focused on building a very strong financial function, incorporating feedback from our investors. This has been the best part if you ask me, and thereby implementing best-in-class governance practices. We're also committed to transparency and disclosure, ensuring that you have the information you need to make informed investment decisions. In the last 12 years, we have generated excellent returns for investors.
Our market cap has gone up by 6x. Our PAT and free cash flow have increased by 4x and 13x. We are leading our midcap peers in terms of dividend payout over the last three, four years. As a company, we have always focused on optimizing our tax rate and augmenting other income through treasury allocation and export incentives. Let me assure you that Prabhakar will focus on these initiatives with the same rigor. I am proud to say that we have made significant progress in each of these areas. We have built a financial function that is capable of supporting the strategy objectives of the company. While also adhering to the highest standards of integrity and ethics. Of course, Srini and Mayur here are the examples of two professionals here. We have listened carefully to your feedback.
Many of you on the call have been my gurus, and have used it to make decision-making internally, and we have established robust governance practices that are designed to protect the interests of all our stakeholders. Perhaps most importantly, we have prioritized transparency and disclosure. We believe that providing timely and accurate information to our investors is essential to building trust and confidence. We have been transparent about our performance, our risk and opportunities, and we have provided you with information you need to make informed investment decisions. As I hand over the baton to Prabhakar, my friend sitting next to me, I want to express my sincere gratitude to each and every one of you. Your support and feedback has been invaluable to me, and I'm grateful to the trust that you have placed in me and the company.
I'm confident that the finance function is in excellent hands with Prabhakar, and I will continue to support Cyient and everyone to make it successful. Thank you for your time, your trust and your partnership, and we'll stay in touch. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Ajay, and, we'll open it up for Q&A at this point.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Sulabh Govila from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. First of all, I wanted to thank Ajay for all his help, all through his these years, and I wish you the best for your future and your retirement. I have a couple of questions on the results. One is that, first of all, congrats on a good set of results. The first one is with respect to the guidance range that is there of 15%-20% on services business. Just wanted to understand, very qualitatively, what are the areas where you would be more cautious in through the year, which you have baked into the guidance.
Through the last quarter or maybe in the first 20 days of this particular quarter, have you seen any instances of project ramp downs or client cancellations from the clients? Anything that you would want to highlight there. That's the first one. The second one, with respect to margin aspirations for next year, you talked about some price increases that have benefited through the second half of last year. Are these, just wanted to understand, are these already baked into the numbers or you're expecting some more in the margin expansion that you had talked about? Plus, what are your expectations for the wage hike going into next year?
I can answer the first part of the question and then request Karthik for his views on that. I'd say, you know, I think generally there is cautiousness in the market, especially in some of the industries like semiconductor, where, you know, we are seeing a bit of slowdown in a macro perspective. We're just being cautious, and that's why we still kept the higher end of the range also because we are still not seeing a significant impact on our business or an appreciable impact on our business. But we believe that the macro will impact everybody at some point, and that's why we're being cautious. I think I'll say a couple of industries for this possibly.
One is semiconductor, the second is medical, and the third is there's also a bit of a slowdown in some of the elements of sustainability. I think it's just prudent given that what is happening in the world that we have a little bit of a pragmatic conservatism going on in the current environment. That's why we've given that guidance, which is a bit wide. Again, that's how we're also managing the business because we don't wanna let any of the growth go, so we can't just take a very conservative view. At the same time, have the flexibility that if it is 15, not 20, then we can take some actions to make sure that at least cost is under control.
Karthik, if you wanna add something to that and also the second part of the question on margins.
No, I think you covered the points, Krishna. I think we expect the large three verticals, which is the sustainability, connectivity and transport. We expect all of them to grow in double digits for the next year. I think that is where our optimism comes from. We are also cautious of the fact that there could be potential issues on some specific projects and programs that we don't have visibility yet, which may get impacted or get pushed to the right or which may get delayed to begin. We do expect some of them to show up during the year. We just want to be cautious.
While we are optimistic on our portfolio mix and where we are wanting to play, I think that really has shaped up well, and we are just hoping for a positive optimism through the year and keeping ourselves grounded. Also on the margin question, I think whatever we have guided, which does include the price hikes, also any kind of wage hike that we have planned for this year.
Understood. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that management is able to answer queries from all participants, kindly restrict your questions to two at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. We have our next question from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, and congrats on once again a good execution. All the best, Ajay, for your retirement life, as well as congratulations to Srini and Prabhakar for the new role. The first question in terms of FY 2024 guidance, where we have said the consolidated services growth of 15%-20%, what could be the core services growth? Can it be higher than what we have witnessed, 12% growth in FY 2023, you believe it could be lower versus FY 2023 because of the macro issues as a whole?
Yeah. I think, Sandeep, we are not breaking down by core on consolidated. This was essentially provided to just get a color from Q3 to Q4. All these businesses are run in an integrated manner, and it would be very difficult for us to separate it beyond Q4. Our view is keeping all of them in play. Is how we have arrived at this 15%-20% range. I know it's a broad range, and as we learn more about how things happen during the year, we'll try to narrow this range as well.
Just a follow-up, what could be the outlook for the railway? Do you believe it's on a Q -on -Q growth recovery and it can grow at a double-digit in FY 2024? What would be the timing of wage hikes in FY 2024?
Did you ask the first question to be on NGN?
On railways. Growth outlook on railways.
New growth area.
New growth area.
I think we expect automotive to continue to be a growth engine for us into the next financial year. We expect semicon to be soft, at least for H1. We hope it recovers during the later part of the year. We expect medical and healthcare and life sciences should start getting into the growth trajectory, but it would be muted. High tech would probably be again soft. Essentially, on the new growth areas, we expect the growth to be led predominantly by automotive. On the wage hikes, we have not quantified the number, but it would be in similar lines like what we have done for the last year.
Yeah. Yeah. I was asking about railways, actually.
Railways. Yeah, I think we have turned the corner in Q4. As part of what we have covered in our previous commentary, we expected this to be recovering well in Q4. I think that has definitely happened. We do expect it to be a growth engine, but it may not be something which will really drive our growth significantly higher. The entire transport segment, like we have talked about, we expect it to be in double-digit growth for the year.
Okay, thank you. I will come in the follow-up. Thanks.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Mohit Jain from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. One is on the pricing. There was a steep increase which you have shown in EBIT margin growth. And also, I saw this increase in on-site presence during the quarter. When you say pricing, is it the blended rate or are you referring to like-to-like price hikes?
It's a like-to-like price hike. When we talk about that, we have been able to see a strong intent from customers to support on the wage inflation. This is something which is a critical part. I also talked about the talent shortages globally as a major concern. They are supporting us with appropriate price hikes in the geographies that we operate in.
4Q is the new base for us from a price perspective.
That's right. Yeah.
Okay. Sir, last question is if you could help me understand the breakup because I've seen there's some reclassification. You mentioned about it in the opening remark also, but if you could provide 4Q breakup in the, in the old format like Aero, Rail, A&D, et cetera. If you can just explain which segment goes where in the new classification.
Yeah, I think it is nothing but Aero and Rail get classified under Transportation. Communications is getting reclassified as Connectivity along with Celfinet acquisition that we made last year. Sustainability is about mining energy and utility. The new growth areas are Automotive and Mobility, Healthcare and Life Sciences, Semiconductor and High Tech.
Okay. To that extent they are comparable with the past numbers.
Yeah.
Thank you very much, sir, and all the best. That's all.
Thank you. We have our next question from Shradha Agarwal from AMSEC. Please go ahead.
Hi, and congratulations on another good quarter. Also just a question on Aerospace and Defense. We've seen, you know, many consecutive quarters of good performance out there. Is it more a widespread performance across client buckets, or is it some one or two clients that is driving growth in this vertical for us? How do you look at Aerospace going into FY 2024, given a very good exit in 4Q that we have delivered?
Yeah, I think the recovery of aerospace continues, and we are also seeing the interest from customers to improve their manufacturing productivity and their ability to service the customers. The aftermarket growth is strong. We are helping them with some of our digital and technology solutions in this segment to help them to improve their productivity and ability to address the customer segment. We do expect it to continue the growth in double-digit for this year. This segment also is due for a platform upgrade, which is expected to be announced anytime in the next three years.
We never know when it is going to be announced, but that is going to be the super beginning of a super cycle in terms of how this will drive new product investment led by significant capital infusion, which is due anytime in the next three, four years, and we hope something happens in the next two to three years.
Right. Right. The other bit is on communications. you know, after the very strong growth that we have seen in FY 2022 and first half of 2023, growth seems to be coming off, especially in the last two quarters. you know, I think you had alluded to some, you know, right shifting of orders in last quarter, if I'm not mistaken. What drove decline in communication in this quarter also and how do we look at this segment in 2024?
I think it is more of the gap between some of the projects which are closing in the quarter and the new projects getting started. I think that is what is really showing in the Q4 results. If you look at full year on the core services part, in communication we have grown more than 18%. I think this is a strong year that we had on the communication or connectivity vertical, and we expect it to again build the momentum through the year. This was more of some projects that we started working on during the course of last year, and they were coming to an end. The new projects which started will probably have a ramp up sometime in Q1 and Q2.
Right. Just one bookkeeper question. Ajay, sir, I think you had guided to ETR being 27% for 2024 earlier, are we now guiding to 24%? Is this understanding right?
As I said, I think in U.K. region, there is a proposed tax increase. Also we are planning to look at simplifying the tax and adopting the ordinance rate 25.1%. I would say it could be more between 25% and 26%.
Okay, sure. Got that. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. First of all, thanks to Ajay for all the support that he has, given to us. Thanks for that. Krishna, good luck. Lastly, wanted to understand, you know, the aero side of the business. I mean, we have seen good growth over the last two quarters specifically. Wanted to understand fundamentally, you know, how long are these cycles generally? You mentioned about some upgrades coming in the next two to three years. If you could throw some more light around that, you know, what kind of upgrade-
I'm sorry, the voice is not coming very clearly. Very garbled. Can you-
Mr. Manohar.
Try something else?
Speak slowly as well. Use your hands.
Yeah, sure. Hello? Yeah. Is it audible?
This is better. This is better.
Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. I mean, lastly, I wanted to understand the aero side of the business. You know, you mentioned as to which areas are driving this growth. Wanted to understand, you know, how long are generally the cycles on the aero side of the piece. I mean, should we see good spends there being existing for the next 2-3 years at least? You mentioned about some big upgrades coming on the new product side, which could happen in the next 2-3 years. If you could throw some more light around then, you know, what kind of upgrades are you talking about? That was one question on aero. Second question was on the EBIT side of the piece.
I mean, we are looking at 100-200 basis points kind of an expansion on the consol services side. What are the tailwinds that you're looking at for this EBIT margin expansion? My third question was on the legal cost. You know, we are having this suit, the legal lawsuit in the U.S., and we have incurred roughly INR 45 crore, which is like $5 million-$6 million this particular year. What is your update over there, and how long could we keep on incurring this cost? Because that number is looking quite big over there. Yeah, those were the questions.
I think let me address the legal question, and then I'll hand it over to Karthik on the aerospace. We are we're still continuing to vigorously defend ourselves in the legal case. The legal case is gone for trial right now. We are defending ourselves with a joint group. I can say that we will know an outcome within this quarter. At that point, based on the outcome, we can then give you a better view of the any continuing costs that we might occur with the case. I'd say bear with us for another quarter or perhaps two quarters, and we'll have a much clearer view on the legal costs going forward. Karthik on the aerospace business. Yeah.
I think what I can answer the question, Manohar, based on what we have seen in the last three years. If you look at in fiscal 2021, there was a significant dip in terms of revenue passenger miles. I think that is coming back to 90-92% for most of the domestic passenger miles. If you look at the international passenger miles, significantly opened up after China's Zero-COVID policy have been withdrawn. We do expect the growth to recover during this year and early next year. We expect significant growth around the manufacturing part or around the MRO or aftermarket side of the business, and enabled with some of the digital solutions to help them to accelerate that, they need to produce more engines, they need to service more engines or aircraft.
How do you think they really need to gear up for it? Having said that, I think the super cycle, we don't know when it is due, and there is a significant pressure on the aerospace group to decarbonize the whole industry, and they are likely to be Sustainable Aviation Fuel, which is going to be another trial that is going to be put out by 2024-2025. Hybridization of engine to reduce the emission that is being done by the aircraft industry today. Then the platform upgrade. We don't know when it is likely to happen, and this is anybody's guess at this point of time. Maybe two large players, I think one announces, it will force the other one also to announce.
If you just take 737 or 320, both are probably 30-year-old platform and both need some kind of an upgrade, it's only a matter of time during this decade. From your second question on EBIT expansion that we talked about for 100 to 200 basis points, I think this is stemming from the confidence that we have on our execution capabilities in terms of really running at a very tight ship in the form of utilization levels and also the ability to really drive price hikes and hyperautomation, which is one of the way to really run more fixed-price projects more productively and efficiently. How we think we can really manage the cost under control and which is the wage inflation that's going to happen during this year.
We are confident about the range that we are providing here, and, we'll kind of keep you updated as we make progress on this front.
Sure, yeah. That's it from my side. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Nitin Sharma from MC Pro Research. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. First of all, congratulations on good set of numbers. Would want to understand what kind of headcount addition you're looking in FY 2024, and then I have a bookkeeping question.
Sorry, it's not very clear. Could you repeat the question again?
What kind of headcount addition you're looking at this financial year?
Sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I think I'll try to answer that, Nitin. I think you'd have seen that we have added about 509 heads as per Q4. We do have our current plan to fill in what is needed for the next six months. We are continuing to play both on contingency as well as permanent hiring based on what makes sense, how we think we really see our demand panning out. We are definitely looking at a headcount addition similar to what we have done last year, and which is again, we cautiously threaded based on how the demand is shaping up. If you'd have seen, we have dropped about 3.5% on utilization. We also added about 500 people anticipating growth.
We do have both utilization as well as headcount that we added as a lever for us to drive the growth in the H1 of fiscal 2024.
The current level of utilization is what you are keeping it around comfortable with?
Yeah. I think we are comfortable with the current utilization level. We have made some changes to our structure about 15 months ago. I think that's really helping us to drive the right levels of utilization by having the resources being fungible and flexible to be rotated around. We have done a upskilling and reskilling program over the last two years. I think all of them are helping us to have the resources which can be moved around the projects.
Okay. A bookkeeping question. Can you please share the breakup between Aerospace and rail transportation for the fourth year?
Sure, Nitin. I'll ask Mayur to be in touch with you to provide more details.
Perfect. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Abhishek Chindarkar from InCred Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir.
I'm sorry, sir. You're not audible. Please use your handset.
Hi, can you hear me?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I just have one question on the order detail. You know, first, you know, going ahead over the next three to four quarters, you know, do we have all the investment in place to kind of sustain, you know, the order book term? The second question is for the quarter reported, you mean order book, is the acquisition order book? I mean, how do we plan to club it or, you know, is it part of it? If that, if that can be clarified. I missed in the presentation, so if you can help with that. Thank you.
Yeah. No, Abhishek, good that you asked the second question, I'll answer that. Current order book or order intake do not take any of the acquired entities into account. They are in the process of getting integrated. We'll provide better view during H1 of fiscal 2024 as we integrate the processes so that we can get an apple-to-apple comparison. Currently, these are all core services, that Krishna has defined in the initial part of the presentation. Sorry, what was your other question?
The second question is now do we have all the investments in place, to kind of sustain, you know, the order book term or do we have to invest back into the business, from the scale?
I'm sorry, sir. Your voice is breaking again.
Can you hear me now?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, my apologies. The question was about the investments in place we need to sustain the current order book momentum. Do we have everything in place or would there be some investment going through this?
Yeah. No, I think, I hope I understand your question, Abhishek. I think your question is do we have enough capabilities required to deliver for the order book. I would say we are more or less there, and wherever we see some gaps, we keep filling them as and when needed. Like we spoke about in the last two years, we have been investing heavily on our technology and digital roadmap. I think that's starting to yield fruits for us in terms of the order intake that we had. We hope of our capabilities that we have already built and the teams that we have invested on reskilling would start helping us during this year. If there are any gaps that we find as we start executing, we'll keep filling them as needed.
That's helpful. Thank you for taking my question. My apologies for the weak line. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Pratap Maliwal from Mount Intra Finance. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes.
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on a good set of numbers. I just wanted to confirm that, last quarter, we had said that aerospace, we expect 10% growth quarter-on-quarter. Has that been achieved? Because the reporting structure has been changed. Just wanted to confirm that.
Yes, Pratap.
Okay, we've achieved that. Now, I just wanted to look at, in the past year, in FY 2022, we had said that digital and embedded software, that's where a lot of our growth is coming, and perhaps that's one area where maybe we were slightly late to the party. I think the management had called out that we are giving up maybe 100 to 200 basis points of growth every quarter. What is our progress here? Maybe could you call out some wins in these areas and relevant deal sizes, just to understand if we've actually made up on the lost ground here.
Sorry, Pratap. Your voice is gobbled up. I'm not able to hear you clearly.
Yeah. I'll just repeat the question, that in FY 2022, the management had said that digital and embedded software is an area where there's a lot of growth coming, but perhaps we were late to that party, I mean, we were late to getting to that vertical. I just wanted to ask that as we were giving up maybe about 100-200 basis points of growth every quarter. What is our progress here? Could you maybe call out some wins in these areas and if we've made up on that lost ground?
Sorry, Pratap. Maybe we can take your question offline. Your question was not clear. If I understand your point, are we growing on embedded digital and silicon areas that we talked about in fiscal 23? The answer is yes. I think these are the ones which has driven the growth for us in the last 12 months. We also realized the margin improvement based on our price hikes and our operating metrics like utilization and the pyramid and our ability to expand on the automation areas. I think these are the ones that helped us to improve on the margin. We are continually working on ability to increase our offshoring, and that has played out well for us in the last 10 quarters. I think we have improved by 10% in our offshoring.
Wherever we see that there are opportunities for us to improve, we keep looking at our ability to improve on the operating metrics.
Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you for your time and thanks for taking my question.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Bodanapu for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. I just want to thank everybody for your support. As you see, we've delivered a good set of numbers. We're also very confident in the momentum that exists for the business. Even some of the verticals that were a challenge in the past, like rail transportation, have turned a corner. Quarter-on-quarter, we had good growth. As Karthik confirmed, aerospace is growing in double digits, even a shade over 10%. We feel very confident, and I want to use this opportunity to thank you for the support and for the very good questions that have come up in the call today.
With that, for the one last time, I'll thank my good friend Ajay for the journey that we've been on and wish him the very best for the journey he's going to embark on in the second innings of his life. Thank you, Ajay, and thank you everybody for your participation.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.