Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Axis Bank Conference Call to discuss the Q3 FY 2024 Financial Results. Participation in this conference call is by invitation only. Axis Bank reserves the right to block access to any person to whom an invitation has not been sent. Unauthorized dissemination of the contents or the proceedings of the call is strictly prohibited, and prior explicit permission and written approval of Axis Bank is imperative. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of the briefing session. Should you need assistance during this conference call, you may signal the operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
On behalf of Axis Bank, I once again welcome all the participants to the conference call. On the call, we have with us Mr. Amitabh Chaudhry, MD and CEO, and Mr. Puneet Sharma, CFO. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amitabh Chaudhry, MD and CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Sir, your audio is not coming. I believe you are on mute.
Thank you, Neeraj. Sorry, uh, didn't realize I was on mute. Good evening, and welcome everyone. Wish you all a very happy New Year. We have on the call, Rajiv Anand, Deputy MD, Subrat Mohanty, ED, Munish Sharda, ED Designate, of course, Puneet Sharma and other members of the leadership team. Over the last few years, we have set Axis Bank on the course of a predictable and sustained high performance, guided by a GPS strategy, which is centered on our customers and our colleagues. We had the opportunity to highlight our execution rigor, distinctiveness and differentiation at our Analyst Day in November 2023. The Indian economy continues its upward momentum in quarter three and remains a beacon of optimism globally. A mix of judicious and bold policy moves has placed India in a sweet spot, which bodes well for the sector in the medium term.
In quarter three, financial year 2024, we at Axis delivered strong operating performance, led by robust sequential growth across loan and deposits. Let me briefly highlight them. The bank has delivered an ROE greater than 18% for the last six quarters now, while maintaining a better credit profile as compared to the past, instilling confidence in its sustainability across economic cycles. The bank has organically net accreted 39 basis points of CET1 capital in nine months, financial year 2024. On loan growth, all the three segments delivered strong sequential growth, with retail, SME, and corporate book, gross up IBPC sold, growing 5%, 4% and 3% quarter-on-quarter, respectively.
On deposits, we have improved the quality of our granular franchise significantly, with our LCR outflow rates and CASA ratio being the best in class in the sector today, and our retail term deposit growth improving to total quarter high. On cards and payments, we saw strong traction in new card issuances, cards in force and spends led by our strategic partnerships. On the merchant acquiring business, too, we have now attained leadership position with terminal market share of close to 19% as of our November 2023, with widespread adoption of our innovative technology-based product offerings. On digital and technology, Open by Axis continues to be the highest-rated mobile banking app, with a rating of 4.8 on the Google Play Store. On the iOS App Store as well, Open by Axis rating has increased to 4.7 this quarter from 4.6 earlier.
Neo, our cutting-edge digital product offering for corporate and SMEs, is deepening our transaction banking relationship among clients. Axis Bank has been recognized in the highest leadership category with score of 77 in the Indian Corporate Governance Scorecard, recently published by Institutional Investor Advisory Services, with evaluation framework built around globally accepted G20/OECD standards and principles. We have tried to be ahead of the curve towards building a bank for the future, with deep investment of management time and resources in our chosen areas of distinctiveness, namely digital, Bharat banking and customer obsession. We stay focused on three core areas of execution of our GPS strategy, namely embedding a performance-driven culture, strengthening the core and building for the future. On embedding a performance-driven culture, there is visible improvement in the retail deposit growth and the quality of our deposit franchise.
The growth trajectory of retail term deposits continued to improve, with 17% year-on-year and 2% quarter-on-quarter growth on period end basis, and 15% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter on QAB basis. Our low-cost CASA share at 42% is among the best in the industry and has compounded at 14% for the last three years. In quarter three, we added 100 branches, taking the overall branch additions to 349 for the nine-month period for our financial year 2024, which is among the highest in the industry. Further, we are doubling down on our deposit mobilization strategy, led by two large transformation initiatives, Siddhi, which is a super app for our employees, and Project Triumph. We spoke about them during the Analyst Day.
We have enabled every business vertical and channel through tools and platforms like video-based customer identification process, bring your own device and Siddhi app to serve our customers real time and onboard new customers with minimal friction. We have a strong foundation for our liability franchise. We continue to work on the deposit leadership roadmap we set a year back, and we expect to realize the full potential of this transformation in the next 6-10 quarters. We are also seeing all-around growth across businesses. We have market-leading growth in our focus segments, while retail lending, within retail lending, we continue to drive balanced growth across the product portfolio. The retail disbursements in quarter 3, financial year 2024, were the highest ever for a non-financial year closing quarter, aided by improved customer sentiment and strong festive demand.
Domestic corporate loans, gross of IBD sold, grew 23% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter, led by a healthy pickup across sectors. The disbursement pipeline for quarter four continues to be healthy, and the SME segment continues to remain a key growth driver for the bank. The combined portfolio of mid-corporate SMEs and small businesses grew 30% year-on-year and 5% quarter-on-quarter, and now consumes 31% of the loan book, up 620 basis points in the last two years. On strengthening the core, on wholesale banking, we have replicated the success of our digital consumer banking app with Neo for Corporates. We have been on this journey for two` years, and we now have a validation for the strong product market fit based on how quickly our clients have embraced it.
On transaction banking APIs, we continue to see strong interest from corporates across industry segments, with 3.7 x growth in corporate onboarding, along with 7 x growth in transactions and 4.8 x growth in throughput. Neo for Business, our mobile-first transaction banking platform tailored for SMEs, continues to scale up in terms of customer onboarding. We saw an increase of over 25% digital usage amongst these customers with the introduction of business banking specific features. We are in the process of rolling out a host of beyond banking features, which will include things like UPI integration, payroll, and inventory management. We have also rolled out Neo for Corporates, our internet banking proposition for large corporates, to all new customers, and we are in beta testing with existing corporate clients.
With full rollout of the Neo, Axis remains on track to become the operational bank of choice for our wholesale banking clients. As far as building for the future is concerned, digital banking performance continues to remain strong. The Open by Axis balance sheet has an increase of 48% in deposits and 86% increase in loans. We launched a new digital savings account proposition, Amaze, that provides customers attractive joining offers and spend-based rewards for a nominal monthly fee. We also launched and scaled new products, including FD for standalone loan credit card customers, US dollar FDs, and GIFT City for non-NRI customers, and new loan and insurance products on Open. Our bank-wide programs to build distinctiveness continue. Our bet on Bharat Banking is growing from strength to strength.
The quarter 3 financial year 2024 disbursements were up 46% year-on-year, rural advances were up 34% year-on-year, and deposits from Bharat branches are 11%, thereby aiding the PSL and profitability metrics. We have expanded our multi-product distribution architecture to 2,420 branches, complemented by 63,500 CSDB network and 80 partners across the industry. Our digital co-lending platform is live with 10+ partners, and the volumes are growing 80%+, quarter-on-quarter. We are building a pioneering end-to-end omni-channel and digital delivery model for the RUSU markets using the Salesforce platform. This will help us scale sustainably over the next three years. Sparsh, our customer obsession program, is helping improve relationships and transaction intensity with our customers.
Over the last 21 months, NPS across 12 retail customer journeys has moved up to 141 over an index baseline of 100, as we listen to and act on the voice of our customers. NPS is now an important lead indicator for us to invest in areas that matter to our customers. Sparsh is a bank-wide priority. It is embedded in rituals and practices across all the 5,250+ branches, all our customer touch points, and in the conduct of every employee. On Citibank and new business integration, the Citi integration remains on track, with acquired business portfolio metrics trending in line with internal estimates. Deposits are stable, and there has been improvement in cross-sell metrics, metrics across wealth, insurance, and retail assets.
Nearly all the 70 synergy initiatives that were identified across cross-sell, deepening, sales productivity, and cost rationalization remain on track and monitored by the board. We expect to complete data migration and system integration by end of first half financial year 25. In closing, the growth momentum in India continues to be strong. We have taken global headwinds and higher interest rates in our stride. The customer sentiment remains healthy, with improved capacity utilization across sectors for corporates. The factors are ideal for an uptick in private CapEx. The deposit growth in the system is a challenge with a tight liquidity environment. We expect this to continue till inflation reaches the lower bound of the range. We foresee the system credit growth to converge towards deposit growth of around 13%. We see this as an opportunity to differentiate and serve our customers better.
All of us are building an institution that will stand the test of time. I will now request Puneet to take over.
Thank you, Amitabh sir. Good evening, and thank you for joining us this evening. We continue to make good progress towards building a stronger, consistent, and sustainable franchise. The salient features of the financial performance of the bank for Q3 FY 2024 across operating performance, capital and liquidity position, growth across our loan and deposit franchise, asset quality, restructuring, and provisioning is as follows: Our operating performance for Q3 FY 2024 was steady across NIMs, cost, and credit cost lines. Consolidated ROA at 1.84%, consolidated ROE at 18.61%. Subsidiaries contributed nine basis points to consolidated annualized ROA and 54 basis points to consolidated annualized ROE this quarter. The bank CET1, including profits, stands at 13.71%. Organic CET accretion in nine months, FY 2024, including profits, was 39 basis points.
Change in regulations impacted CET1 by 70 basis points. COVID provisions translate to a cushion of 43 basis points over and above the reported CET1 ratio. Our net interest margin for the quarter was 4.01%, declining 10 basis points Q1Q. Yield on interest earning assets improved by 69 basis points YOY, and 6 basis points quarter on quarter. This increase was offset by increasing cost of funds, thereby impacting NIMS. We have always maintained that NIMS should be looked at on a full year basis. For nine months, FY 2024, NIM was 4.08%, better than nine months FY 2023 by 13 basis points. NII was at INR 12,532 crore, growing 9% YOY, 2% sequentially. Fees at INR 5,169 crore, growing 29% YOY, 4% sequentially.
Our granular fee is 93% of our total fee. Operating profits stood at INR 9,141 crores, growing 6% Q1Q. Core operating profit at INR 8,850 crores, grew 1% quarter-over-quarter. Cost to assets is 2.49%, increased 25 basis points YOY. Net credit cost at 0.28%, improved by 14 basis points on a Q1Q basis, and 37 basis points YOY, aided by higher recoveries and an upgrade of a large corporate restructured account. PAT at INR 6,071 crores, increased 4% quarter-over-quarter. GNPA at 1.58%, declined 80 basis points YOY and 15 basis points Q1Q. Net NPA at 0.36%, declined 11 basis points YOY. Our standard asset coverage ratio is 1.29%.
All provisions by GNPA stood at 153% at December 31, 2023, improving 1,385 basis points YOY. We achieved the financial closure of the Citibank transaction. We request you to refer note six of the UFR for details. There is no material impact as the transaction was fully accounted for in FY 2023. We remain on track to achieve LD 2 per earlier estimated timelines. Our progress on structuring NIM drivers continues well, with improvements across all variables on a year-on-year basis. Improvement in balance sheet mix, loans and investments comprised 89% of total assets as of December 2023, improving 154 basis points YOY. INR denominated loans comprised 95.8% of total advances, improving 250 basis points YOY.
Retail and CBG advances comprised 69% of total advances, improving 264 basis points YOY. Low yielding RIDF funds declined by INR 8,170 crore YOY. RIDF comprised 1.8% of our assets as of December 2023, compared to 2.73% of our assets at December 2022. Quality of liability is measured by outflow rates, improved by 600 basis points over the last two years. Given the liquidity and rate situation in the market, average CASA was 42%, declined 196 basis points YOY. However, this continues to be among the highest in the private sector bank space. We had good fee performance in the quarter. Total retail fee grew 36% YOY and 6% Q1Q. Fee on retail loans grew 26% YOY, 7% on a sequential quarter basis.
Retail card fee grew 58% YOY, 12% Q1Q. Commercial card fee grew 35% YOY, 10% Q1Q. Fees from our third party products grew 42% YOY, 4% Q1Q. Our commercial banking business fee grew 13% YOY and 6% Q1Q. Trading profit and other income at INR 385 crore was lower by INR 178 crore YOY, and grew by INR 314 crore sequentially, mainly on account of better DCM and trading performance, and reversal of MTM booked in previous quarters. Operating expenses for the quarter was INR 8,946 crore, growing 32% YOY and 3% sequentially. It is pertinent to note that there is no Citi BAU expense in Q3 FY 2023.
Integration expenses contribute 4% of the YOY growth in operating expenses in percentage terms, and 13% of YOY cost growth in INR terms. The balance YOY increase in INR crores of expenses, other than above, can be attributed to 10% linked to volume, 47% technology and growth-related investments, and 30% from our BAU activities. Technology and digital spends grew 36% YOY, and constituted 9% of our total operating expenses. Staff costs increased 19% YOY. We added 12,075 people from the same period last year, mainly to our growth businesses and technology teams. We've opened 350 branches in the nine months, FY 2024, with 100 branches being opened in Q3 of FY 2024. QoQ increase in operating expenses is largely attributable to higher volumes.
Provisions and contingencies for the quarter were INR 1,028 crore, lower by 28% YOY, but higher by 26% Q1Q. Adjusted for the prudent provision made for AIF investments, provision and contingencies for the quarter would be INR 847 crore, flat quarter-over-quarter. The bank has not realized any of its COVID-19 provisions, and this provision is entirely prudent. The cumulative non-NPA provisions as of December 31, 2023, stood at INR 11,981 crore, comprising INR 5,012 crore towards COVID-19, restructuring provision of INR 587 crore, including unsecured retail being provided at 100%, and the rest at first bucket NPA rates.... Standard asset provision at higher than regulatory rates of INR 2,216 crore, weak asset and other provisions of INR 4,166 crore.
Moving to growth across our liability and loan franchise, we gained 20 basis points market share on a year-over-year basis across our deposit and loan franchise. Please refer slides 19 and 20 for details around the quality of our liability franchise and slides on our loan business. The bank sold IBPCs in the current quarter, aggregating to INR 5,754 crore. Grossed up for IBPC sale, the QOQ loan growth was 4% and the YOY loan growth would be 23%. Total deposits on a QAB basis grew 18% YOY. Our CASA ratio on a QAB basis grew 13% YOY and 1% sequentially. Our loan book is granular, well-balanced, with retail advances constituting 59% of overall advances, corporate loans at 31% and CBG at 10%.
69% of our loans are floating rate, 48% of our fixed rate loan book matures in the next 12 months. Breakup of the floating rate loan book by benchmark type and MCLR repricing frequencies set out on slide 11 of our investor presentation. Our retail advances grew 27% YOY and 5% sequentially. 75% of the book is secured per internal classification. Q3 FY 2024 retail disbursements grew 47% YOY and 10% sequentially. Unsecured disbursements were 22% of retail disbursements for the quarter, as compared to 25% in the previous quarter. Disbursement growth in home loans was 37% YOY, small business and other loans, 33% YOY, retail agri business, 46% YOY, and personal loans were 61% YOY.
Moving to our wholesale banking business, details of rating composition, incremental sanction quality is set out on slide 36 of our investor presentation. The domestic corporate loan book, grossed up for IBPC sales, grew 23% YOY and 3% QoQ. The offshore wholesale advances are largely trade finance related and primarily driven by our Citi branch. 95% of the overseas standard corporate loan book is India-linked, and 91% is rated A- and above. The commercial banking book grew by 26% YOY and 4% quarter-on-quarter. The quality of the CBG franchise we are building and the strong relationship-led approach is reflected through CBG new to bank book growing by 28% on a year-on-year basis, and 84% of our CBG loan book is PSL compliant. Moving to the performance of our subsidiaries.
Detailed performance of the subsidiaries is set out on slides 69-77 of our investor presentation. Domestic subsidiaries reported a total nine-month FY 2024 net profit of INR 1,108 crore, growing 17% YOY. The return on investment on domestic subsidiaries was 50%. Axis Finance Q3 FY 2024, overall assets under finance grew 38% YOY. Retail book constitutes 44% of total loans. Nine months FY 2024 net profit for Axis Finance grew 25% YOY to INR 425 crore, and Axis Finance has a healthy CAR of 18.79%. Axis Finance's strong asset quality is reflected with a net NPA ratio of 0.32% and negligible restructuring. Axis AMC overall quarterly average assets under management grew 6% YOY to INR 262,398 crore.
nine-month PAT stood at INR 297 crore. Axis Securities broking revenues for nine months grew 42% YOY to INR 757 crore, and PAT grew 31% YOY to INR 198 crore. Moving to asset quality provisioning and restructuring, asset quality continues to improve, with slippage, gross NPA, net NPA, and PCR ratios at the bank and segmentally for retail, CBG, and corporate are provided on slide 60 of our investor presentation. The bank has made investments in AIF aggregating to INR 107 crore, details of which are as follows: 46% of the AIF investments are in AIF that are directly or indirectly government-owned, or from sponsoring entities like NIIF, NABFID, and NABARD. The bank has not invested in any single AIF amount greater than INR 50 crore.
The portfolio overlap in AIF is 85% A minus and above rated exposures, and 15% triple A-rated exposures. The realizable value at 31 December is close to the holding cost of the investment. The bank has prudently provided 100% of its entire AIF outstanding, agnostic of overlap as on date. Net slippage ratio annualized stood at 0.5%, declining 43 basis points YOY and 9% QoQ. Net slippages for the quarter were INR 1,117 crore, declining 35% YOY and 12% QoQ. Net slippages segmentally were INR 1,988 crore in retail, INR 74 crore in our commercial banking business, and -INR 945 crore for our WBCG business. Recoveries from written-off accounts for the quarter were INR 635 crore.
Net slippage in the quarter, adjusted for recovery from written-off accounts, was INR 482 crore, of which retail was INR 1,542 crore, our CBG business was INR -11 crore, and our WBCG business was INR -1,049 crore.
...For the quarter, 35% of our gross slippages are attributed to linked accounts of the borrower, which were standard when classified or have been upgraded in the same quarter. To summarize the performance for the quarter, Axis Bank is progressing well to be a stronger, consistent and sustainable franchise. This is visible through organic CET1 accretion of 39 basis points for the nine months FY 2024, our COVID buffer of 43 basis points of overall capital adequacy, our overall coverage at 153% of GNPA, and limited restructuring of 0.16% of our gross customer assets. Consolidated ROE for nine months FY 2024 was 18.86%, 82 basis points higher than nine months FY 2023, an outcome of disciplined execution. The bank has ample and sufficient liquidity visible in an exit LCR of 329%.
Given the increased focus on the CD ratio as one of the multiple metrics to be tracked, deposit growth would be a key constraint to growth in advances in the short to medium term. We are well placed in the current macro environment. We continue to closely monitor geopolitical, inflation, liquidity and cost of funds that impact our business. Thank you for your patience. We will be happy to take questions now.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. An operator will take your name and announce it in the question queue. Participants are requested to only use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Chintan Joshi, Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, this is Chintan from Autonomous. Before I ask, can I just quickly get your LCR deposit number for reference? And then the question I have, you know, your comment you made that deposit growth will be a constraint on growth overall. Now, how should we think about this? Like, do you think, you know, these liquidity type-tight liquidity trends will ease over the coming months, or, you know, are we talking about a challenged deposit growth kind of outlook, not just for Axis, but for the other banks as well? And then, related to that, what are the actions you can take on the asset side to offset some of these pressures? Thank you.
I think he spoke about LCR at 118, where we are on an average for the quarter. Typically, if you see over the last 18 quarters, we've bobbed between 115 and 120. That is, that is where, you know, we are, we're quite comfortable, especially given the outflow rates that we have been able to, you know, sort of significantly improve over the last three years or so. It is a tight liquidity environment. I mean, while the policy rates are at 6.5%, you can see that overnight rates are closer to 6.75, and much of the curve is at 7% and beyond.
That is the liquidity situation that we are seeing at this point in time. It will require intervention from RBI, and I don't think that intervention is going to come anytime soon. And so therefore, the pressure on deposits will continue as we go forward, which is therefore the point that Puneet makes, that how much we will be able to grow will be determined by how much we are able to grow on the deposit side.
You would have noticed that, you know, thanks to all the initiatives that we had put together over the last many quarters, you know, strengthening the franchise, partnerships, technology like CB, et cetera, have helped us gain market share, and I think that is a play that we will hopefully continue to play as we go forward. On the asset side, I think we will have to get a balance between continuing to build a long-term franchise with our customers on one side, and being able to optimize for NIMS and ROE on the other side.
And I think that is, that is a balancing act that we will have to, you know, continue to play, based on how liquidity and therefore deposit for us grows, in the coming few quarters.
Thank you. I was after the LCR retail deposit number, if you have that handy.
Chintan, we will, we will anyway be publishing that number as part of our Basel disclosures. You should see it on our website at some point in time later in the day.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. I just wanted to check on bulk deposits. So, the system liquidity got much tighter towards the end of the quarter. Would it be fair to assume that a lot of bulk deposits were mobilized towards the end of the quarter, and the full impact on cost will be seen on the next quarter? That's my first part on deposits. And my second part is, on any comments on LDR, given that everyone seems to be worried about the LDR. Of course, you did mention about the deposit challenge, and then some banks have admitted to RBI having discussed this one-on-one with them. So where do you see your LDR settling, say, by FY 25, given the, I mean, any broad range? I don't, I know you don't give specific guidance, but.
So, Mahrukh, this is Neeraj here. On your question around the bulk deposit pricing, I think, bulk deposit pricing continues to be inching up steadily through the quarter. It's not just a quarter-end phenomena. As the system liquidity has remained tight and the overnight rates have, inched towards the upper end of the corridor, it is kind of getting reflected in where the bulk deposit rates are and where the CD rates are, which are kind of very close to each other. I don't think this trend eases off anytime soon. In fact, Q4 being the last quarter of the year, we'll probably see this continuing. The main driver will be how the liquidity in the system plays out and how Reserve Bank sort of deals with the liquidity. So I think that, the trend, is kind of there.
It will play out steadily over a period of time.
No, my question was that, were most of your bulk deposits mobilized towards the end of the quarter?
We do it through the quarter, Mahrukh. Our deposit mobilization process continues through the quarter. There is no, in some senses, bunching up towards the end of the quarter as we are referring to. We have, because we moved away from this. We worked very hard to move away from this quarter and month-end stuff, so, you know, maybe, you know, this has happened in the system, but, you would also notice that we are perhaps the only large private bank whose LDRs have moderated sequentially. You know, and I think you should give us credit for that. Also, we continue to have one of the best outflow rates in the industry. It, you know, which will continue to be demonstrated even during this quarter.
As we have, as we pointed out, even on the LCR side, we have always operated within the 115-120 band. The movement is almost, you know, has been within this band for last 8 to 18 quarters. 18 quarters! So, you know, talk about consistency in terms of how we have run the business and the liquidity coverage ratio through the cycle. So I think just please keep that in mind. We raise large deposits through the quarter. Yes, at the right price, which makes sense to us, and we continue to move forward, but there is no quarter-end effect. I just want to move away from that. Puneet, you want to add something here?
Mahrukh, thank you for the question. I think the direct pointed answer to your question is, if you look at slide eight of our investor presentation, you will see deposit growth presented on a QAB basis, and you will see that the QAB basis deposit growth tracks, tracks CASA basis very closely, which will indicate to you that balances have grown through the quarter rather than at period end.
Perfect. On just the LDR thing, I know that it's improved, so it's rare that in this quarter someone's LDR has improved, but any range you would like to give for FY 25?
Mahrukh, thank you for the question. We don't offer a range on LDR. We think there are multiple variables through which we manage our balance sheet. LDR is one of the variables. We do not have a targeted LDR that, that we discuss publicly.
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Suresh from Macquarie Research. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. So two questions. One is on this, deposit mobilization strategy itself, right? So, I mean, we were focusing a lot on retail deposits, but if I look at the same slide eight, it looks like almost 60%+ of incremental deposits this quarter has come from non-retail term deposits, right? It has grown 12, 12% QOQ. So should we read too much into this? It's just one quarter phenomenon where liquidity has been tight, and therefore you have to take recourse to bulk deposits, or how should we read into this? Because it's a large number, almost 60% incremental has come from NRTD.
Suresh, thank you for the question. Couple of things. I think while we look at slide eight, I will also request you to look at slide nine and slide eight collectively. On slide nine, you will see that our retail term deposits have grown by 17% on a year-on-year basis, and if you look at the trajectory of growth in retail deposits, it was close to zero in December 2022, and it's up to 17%. This is in line with all of the effort we are making to granularize the franchise, and the output of those efforts are visible in the RTD growth number. Yes, you're right that in the current quarter, NRTD has contributed to growth, but again, I think it is not a period end balance. It is coming from our corporate customers, and effectively, as Rajiv often says, we are a universal bank.
We deal with retail customers and wholesale customers, and if the wholesale customers offer us an opportunity to pick up deposits from them, we'd be very happy to pick up deposits from them.
Suresh, I would add, you're asking a very fair question. I would add you to also think and take into account the outflow rates we have, right? So even if we are raising, let's say, deposits from our wholesale customers, please remember that they are coming at a certain outflow rate, which means that you know, there could you know, a decent portion would be non-callable. So it's not just, you know, raising some short-term deposits. It is, we're trying to ensure that the balance sheet is structured right on a consistent basis. Just keep them.
You know, the only problem, Amitabh, there is, these deposits tend to be a bit more fickle in nature, right? If liquidity tightens, I know until the time it's non-callable, it's fine, but suddenly the corporate moves to another, another bank in the market, and, you know, there is a lot of bidding war happening by the PSUs in the market. So you're confident that this doesn't distort the pricing curve on the cost of fund side for you, right? Because you have gone ahead and raised a lot of bulk deposits this quarter. That's the only worry I have. Yeah.
So, pricing of the deposits is a market-driven phenomenon. It is not just on the bulk deposit side, but it is also on the retail deposit side. We are making sure that our liability cost is in line with what our peers are offering. So it is competitive on both the sides, not just on the bulk deposit side. Yes, bulk deposits tend to have a certain phenomenon that needs to be taken into account, but I've seen a good correlation between where the bulk deposit rate go and the way retail rates go over a period of time. The non-callable feature, which actually helps us make sure that the outflow rates are not higher bulk deposits, is the one real hedge against this deposit shopping in some senses.
Okay, clear. Just finally, one question on capital. I know you have, of course, repeated your stance, but still, again, for the benefit of everybody, you're at 13.7%. You know, your peers, of course, are easily 200, 300 basis points above the number that you're reporting. Some of them actually, Amitabh and Puneet, they keep internal thresholds of 14% Common Equity Tier 1 under the new Basel III regime. Whatever it is, each bank has its own threshold criteria. At 13.7%, are you comfortable? Are you sure that, you know, with the outlook which is there, and, I mean, can you share anything with respect to your internal thresholds there? Any guidance on that would be great. Thank you.
Suresh, thank you for the question. I think the framework that we've consistently adopted with respect to capital is we think about capital on two pillars, capital for protection and capital for growth. Under the protection pillar, we look at regulatory capital as well as capital to protect domestic triple-A. Even at 13.71, we carry sufficient cushion over both those areas. On capital for growth, I would just request you to look at what we've profiled on slide 16. On a nine-month period, FY 2024, we have net accreted 39 basis points of CET1 capital. We are currently in an environment where we think we will organically continue to accrete capital.
Amitabh did indicate in his opening remarks that our house economists expect advances growth at an industry level to be at the 12%-13% range, and therefore, we are really not seeing capital being consumed for growth, given how our organic business is accreting. So we continue to maintain our position categorically that we do not intend to raise capital. I think, to your question in reference to Basel III norms, the one request I would have is, the risk rates under Basel III are very different from the regulatory risk rates. So what you're seeing as 13.71 basis regulatory risk rates would be different in the Basel III construct. Therefore, again, putting that layer onto your question, we still categorically maintain we do not need capital at the current stage and will not be raising.
Okay. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pranav, from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Hey, thanks for taking the question. Just had a question on your loan mix. You've continued to move towards, you know, the higher-yielding segments. Two questions on that. One, with the risk weight change that has been announced, do you see a change in pace of that transition? Number one. And number two, do you have a end state in mind in terms of, the split between mortgages and other consumer segments, that you have right now?
So, the consumer business, especially the personal loan business, has been growing. But if you see slide 22, in terms of retail disbursement trend, quarter-on-quarter, that number in terms of composition is down to 22% from 25% in the previous quarter, which really means that the other assets also are growing. So we are kind of comfortable with that. As we earlier also said, we don't see any stress in the portfolio. The growth we see on the consumer loan side is a result of a few quarter effort in terms of transformation projects being run and lot of partnerships scaling up. So that we intend to continue. The loan mix is in a desired state as we are progressing. Can you just repeat the second part of the question?
Second part is more on a steady state mix that you're looking at. Are you at the steady state, or is there some more transition that you expect to happen?
Yeah, so we have been around 78-80 secured, 20-22 unsecured. That's what we've been saying and holding for some period of time. If it goes to 75-25 over a period of time, that also is fine with us. It's something which we have to keep moderating and observing in line with the various developments happening in the industry, and currently, 75% of our retail book is secured. So-
So my question is more related to the mortgage growth. I think, we've seen almost for several quarters now that that growth has been muted. So I was wondering if that was part of an intentional shift to get to a certain loan yields, and therefore, if we should expect a recovery in the mortgage growth or if we will see some more of this loan mix shift happening?
I think I mentioned in the previous call also that we are assessing every business based on risk-adjusted return on capital, and these asset classes stack up on that RAROC curve in a certain way, and whichever is higher on the RAROC curve, within obviously defined limits, we will try to push that business more in comparison to the other. It's not that the mortgage business is not important for us. It's a large business for us. But in a deposit-constrained environment, we will obviously have a waterfall, and in that waterfall, we will push businesses which give us a better return. So I don't, you know, we don't want to get caught up in, you know, specific numbers in each of the businesses, but we will play depending on what makes the, you know, most optimal sense for us.
And in a deposit-constrained environment, the credit growth will get constrained. A lot of questions around LDR and so on and so forth, I think we need to prioritize where we want to grow, and that's exactly what we're doing.
Understood. Perfect. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jai Mundhra from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, on your opening remarks, you mentioned that the systemic deposits and credit growth are likely to converge at around 13%. Is this like FY 2024 or this is like FY 2025? So any timeline for that number?
I mean, if you look at all the commentary coming from RBI and the governor and the commentary around inflation, I think it is quite obvious that this is not just next three months event, this will continue into financial year 25, and I think stay during financial 25 for you know, almost the entire year, unless something dramatic happens. We are still way off from, or at least away from the target, which RBI has in mind on inflation. There are still risks to that inflation target. So I do not see interest rates coming down. I do not see RBI you know, taking the pedal off the constraining the liquidity.
Frankly, the biggest factor which is driving the why the deposit rates are high or deposit growth is constrained is RBI tightening the liquidity, and I don't see that going away. So, you know, cutting long story short, we do expect the deposit growth to remain constrained, and as a result, over a period of time, the credit growth has to temper down. I because they have to converge at some stage. They can't keep running in two different or at very different levels for a long period of time. This is not what we've been saying today. We have been saying this for quite some time also, quite consistently.
Right.
So in that context, at our current LDR, while it has improved quarter-on-quarter, it goes without saying that the ask rate on deposit for Axis Bank is much higher than the credit growth rate, right? That is how, and you also indirectly mentioned that the deposit growth will be constrained as the credit growth, at least in the near term. Is that the right interpretation?
So one of the drivers of the LDR change over a period of time is how we've optimized our balance sheet. If you see our outflow rate on deposit has come down from roughly 26% to 21%, 20%, 21% now. And that has meant that we have preferred certain kinds of deposits over certain other kinds of deposits, right? The deposits which attract 100% outflow, we preferred not to increase that book or rather shrunk part of that book. And that has had an impact on LDR. So, like we said, that NCR, LDR, NSFR, these are all important parameters that we look at while optimizing our balance sheet and seeing how the balance sheet evolves over a period of time. All of these are important parameters, but at times, you know, there is a play between one versus the other.
Last, a different question on, I mean, we noticed that you have around 10 million non-Axis Bank customers using Axis Mobile and Axis Pay, and I assume these are not Freecharge customers, right? Because that, that runs into millions or even higher numbers. If you can provide some color as to what exactly is the offering that these non-Axis Bank customers are using, and, you know, any medium-term plans to convert these non-bank customers to offer other services or cross-sell? Thank you.
So you're right, these are not, you know, Freecharge customers. There could be some overlap, but in general, these are all Freecharge customers. We have been speaking about three types of customers: new to bank customers, existing to bank customers, and known to bank customers, customers that we know, you know, something about. So these, this set of customers are customers where we know something about them, and we have various programs where we are able to underwrite these customers, and we are able to, you know, sell personal loans, like cards, et cetera, to these entities. We are a leading player on the account aggregator platform.
Much of the traction that you are seeing is through this route as well, and of course through the various UPI platforms that we are present on.
Understood. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rikin Shah from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. First one is on the linking of the loan book to different benchmarks. So we see that the repo loan benchmarking the loans linked to the repo loans are up by almost 10 percentage point in last one year to almost 48-49%.
... that is in the context of mortgage loan growth being slower. So just wanted to understand what's driving this change in the context of impending rate cut cycle that we may see? That's question one. And second, just a small observation, the cost guidance has been removed from the presentation. So, do we need to read anything onto this, or anything you would like to elaborate? Thanks.
Thank you for the question. Listen, I'll take the second question first. We commented on cost on the analyst day, and the comments that we made on cost at the analyst day, which we continue to carry since then, is as long as the benign credit environment allows us to continue to invest in the franchise, we will continue to invest in the franchise. We are investing for the future. We are investing to build capabilities. Some of the investments are visible to you today: the Neo app, the mobile app, the tech stack that we have built, the 350 branches that we've created. So as long as we operate within a given viewpoint, we will continue to make the investment.
We remain focused on managing our expenses when the need arises, and we do believe that we can, we can pull back that expense if the need were to so arise. So I don't think there is, that number that we used to put out was taken away when we discussed at length the bank's performance at the analyst day. It's not a takeaway in the current quarter. Sorry, can you, can you give me context to your first question, please?
Yeah. So, we look at the loan book, loan book being benchmarked to different rates, and there, the loans which are benchmarked with the repo rate, the share of those loans have increased by almost 10 percentage point from 38%-39% to 48% now, to the repo link. So given the impending rate cut cycle, first, I wanted to understand as to what's driving this, higher increase in the benchmarking to the repo? And second, does this mean that, once the repo rate cut cycle kind of begins, the transmission of interest rate yields will now be faster, or would you kind of course-correct before that?
Firstly, we are not in the impending rate cut camp, so let me get that out of the way first. I think, you know, as you know, that all of retail or much of retail and almost all of SME is repo linked, and therefore, as that book grows, it continues to be repo linked. We've, over the last one year, we've also seen increasing use of repo rate on the corporate side for corporate loans, and that is driving, you know, that growth as well. So therefore, it is most of retail, almost all of corporate, all of SME and some part of the corporate side, which is now repo linked.
Understood. Fair enough. Thank you very much.
Sorry, sorry, Rikin, I'll just supplement what Rajiv said. If you look at our December 2022 presentation, 68% of our loans were floating rate. As of December 2023, it's 69%, which is floating rate. So there isn't actually a movement, it's just a play between the benchmark types. And effectively, over a finite period of time, the benchmarks will have to behave similarly across a rate cycle.
Sure. Thank you, Puneet.
Thank you. Next question is on line of Kunal Shah from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking the question. So I'm not sure if you answered that, because I missed some part of the conversation. But given that you always have been highlighting in terms of the growth targets, but now it seems to suggest that deposit is definitely a constraint. So would we still continue to grow at 4-6 percentage points higher than the system average when you are highlighting that loan and deposit growth would settle at 13 odd %? Or does that also change given the CD ratio as well as the deposit constraint, which is there?
Boss, you're, you're trying to hold us quarter-on-quarter. I think we continue to maintain our guidance, that in the medium term we'll continue to be able to maintain that 400-600 basis point differential. We're not changing that.
Sorry, sorry?
We have said that we'll maintain the 400-600 basis point differential between industry and our growth rate. Don't hold us quarter to quarter, but yes, in the medium term, we would... We believe that we can maintain it, and we are not changing it.
Okay. Okay. And secondly, in terms of maybe earlier, we highlighted last quarter that almost like the marginal cost of funds and cost of deposits have stabilized. So where are we in terms of maybe what would be the gap between the incremental cost of deposits and the outstanding cost of deposits? If you can maybe not give the exact numbers, but the maybe the how much is the gap left between the two which will get caught up over a period, yeah.
Kunal, thank you for the question.
Particularly term deposits, yeah.
Kunal, thank you for the question. What we've maintained is marginal cost of funding has stabilized. It, as long as the marginal cost of funding remains at where it has been for the last 4-6 months, we do expect our base deposit book to get repriced, through quarter four and quarter one of... Quarter four of the current financial year, and a spillover into quarter one of the next financial year.
... Okay, got that. And any levers on the loan book side now available, given that unsecured pie is also coming up, though this quarter we see sequential growth being strong in some of the high yielding segments. Plus now our LDR is also down to almost like, say, 1.8 odd%, almost getting in line with the, or maybe much below where the other banks are. So maybe there were a couple of levers on the yield side. But which, what levers do we see now going forward? On yield.
Thank you, Kunal, for that question. I think, if you look at slide 12 of our presentation, we've from a mix perspective, we've talked about retail SME as a percentage of loan book. We've talked about the INR, non-INR book, and those are the two observations that you're pointing out, have gotten to be 69% and the 4.2% respectively. We also flagged off a third lever when we speak about our yield optimization journey, which is, sub-segment shift within the wholesale business, which is still to play through. The other element is that if you look at our bank balance sheet, only about 14%-15% of our advances are unsecured. So we, we do still have some play at a full bank level, between secured and unsecured exposure as we move forward.
Short answer to your question: Yes, there are some levers that have been optimized, but there are other levers that we can still work through in the coming quarters and coming years.
Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saurabh Kumar from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, just one question. So on this wholesale credit side, so you've had a large recovery. So two things. One, can you help us with, what is the quantum of the, on the written off book, what is the quantum left? And how long would you expect this, negative credit, cycle, I mean, the recovery cycle in the corporate to last? Negative net separation in the corporate to last. Thank you.
Saurabh, thank you for your question. I think if you look at slide 62 of our investor presentation, you will see a table that gives you the cumulative value of credit write-offs to date. The number as Q3 of FY 2024 is INR 40,211 crore.
Of this, how much is the corporate?
Sorry?
Of this, how much is the corporate?
We don't break this up between corporate and retail, but if I just give you a context, INR 40,211 crore, this is cumulative value. We have been recovering against this value over a period of time. I think to your specific question on data point on what is corporate and what is corporate recovery likely to be, we have directly commented to say that we do expect credit costs to move up. In the first stage, recovery from written-off accounts will reduce, and over a period of time, we do expect our credit costs to move up for the system and for us. All of us are operating below long-term true technical credit cost numbers. Hence, that's the trajectory that we expect to see over time.
Okay. Okay. All right, thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Param Subramanian from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My question again is on deposits. So historically, you know, we've, you know, we've pointed out in the past that we are strong in the government business, and one of the reasons for the tighter liquidity is government money going out of the system. So, when that money comes back, are we better placed compared to the rest of the system? Any sort of gearing you'd like to highlight over there? Yeah, that's my first question.
So you're right. You know, historically, we've had a strong relationship with the government at the central state government, district panchayats, right down to the beneficiaries. And we continue to leverage on those relationships. Increasingly, what the government wants is technology solutioning to be able to manage this flow from the Consolidated Fund of India all the way down to the beneficiary. And we've been providing to the various governments, various state governments, various departments of and ministries these solutions. And we have a significant market share among private sector banks as far as government business is concerned. The government is looking to get more efficient in terms of these cash flows.
So in the long term, I think, you know, as much of these flows become more and more digital, you know, the amount of float in the system will reduce, but I think that is not a problem that we will have tomorrow. But, you know, over a period of time, it could potentially, you know, sort of play out. But I think the point that you are making is that there is money lying with the government, and therefore, there's liquidity tightening. I think, you know, to some degree, the way that the government...
The RBI thinks about liquidity, is the liquidity pool that is lying in the banking systems, the money that is lying with the government, because that government money will either come through, will either come through in terms of salary payments at the beginning of every month, or payments to the state governments, and for infrastructure spends, et cetera. So there is a bit of a legal lag, as GST payments go to the government and some of these payments come through. I think, you know, one of the things that's been happening is revenue numbers for the government have been very strong. And so therefore, their liquidity buildup has been quite strong.
I do believe that, I mean, maybe for the next couple of months, as the code of conduct for the elections, which has, you know, now pretty much been announced for April sixteenth, begins to kick in, there may be some slowdown in terms of government spending, but all that will come through as we go forward.
Perfect. That, that, that's really helpful. But, could you provide any, say, numbers in terms of market share? You did, highlight that you have a significant market share, but, market share or, say, percentage of your total deposits, say, contributed by the government business?
Sorry, can you... Market share?
Any numbers on, you know, the market share? You highlighted your market share in government deposits is higher.
Okay.
Any numbers you can give over there, yeah?
We don't have... I mean, you know, one of the problems that you will always face is that there is no public data around this, so we know some of these numbers because of some of the work that we've done and some anecdotally, so not really looking, not comfortable sharing that number.
Okay. Okay, no problem. And, and my other question is on the, again, on, repricing. So what are the price actions we have taken on, unsecured, retail and as well as loans to NBFCs, you know, post the RBI increase in risk weight? Yeah, those were my questions. Thank you.
Thank you for your question, Param. I think, on incremental disbursements, we have increased pricing on personal loans. Obviously, you would appreciate that it is a competitive market space, and therefore, how much you can pass through to the customers depends on market conditions. But we have increased pricing on the loans, and we are seeing a better yield come through on our PM portfolio and incremental disbursements. The back book is entirely fixed, so we're not likely to see that repriced until it gets repaid. On NBFCs, we are in the process of passing on the rate hike to the NBFCs. It's a function of when the loan is due for repricing. But we have seen a marginal uptick in gross yields on our NBFC book this quarter compared to the last quarter.
Perfect. Thanks, Puneet. Just one more question, if I can, squeeze in. So, did I catch it correctly that we are, you are not going to be held to the 2.1% cost to assets exit ratio that you are, you know, guiding to, say, by end of FY 2025? So that is not something we are looking at currently, is it?
Param, what I said is, if the environment permits us to invest, we would like to invest for the future. That's what I had said when we, when we did our annual strategy. Given the benign credit environment, we would like to continue to build the strength for the future, as long as we can deliver in and around our aspirational ROE metric.
Okay. Got it, Puneet. Thanks a lot. All the best to the team. Thank you.
Thank you. I request to all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permits, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. Next question is from the line of Sameer Desai from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just thinking around this liquidity tightness, wanted to get thoughts from Amitabh on how do you think from the second order derivative perspective of this phenomenon, would you worry on potential asset quality issues? Are we still some time away from that? And what would you see as signals if it kind of persists for a longer time?
Well, it's difficult to predict at this stage. I think it's given where the Indian banking system is, where the consumer sentiment is, yes, and the way regulator is watching the metrics so closely and so actively, I do not see the second order impact coming through, you know, in any big or significant way. But, you know, ultimately, we are in the risk-taking business. It's very difficult to say anything with certainty. I mean, all of us are watching our numbers very, very closely. All of us are aware that the times are so good that we do need to watch our numbers closely, because who knows when we might be making some mistakes. No signs as yet, but will it, this potential, you know, tightening situation, pricing, might lead to a second order impact? Only time will tell.
I can only assure you, at least from Axis Bank perspective, we are looking at everything possible we can very, very closely and trying to assess if there is any signal out there which will be telling us that, things could be going down, like, going south in some form or shape.
But at this point in time, you don't worry on that, on that front, is that, is that fair?
No, risk-taking business, I'm worried all the time.
Thanks. Just quickly, can I have a breakdown of the gross slippages across businesses?
Thanks for the question. Our gross slippages for the quarter were INR 3,715 crore. They declined 2% year-on-year. Segmentally, it was INR 3,384 crore for retail, INR 238 crore for TBD, and INR 93 crore for the WBBD business.
Okay, this is helpful. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead.
... Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question and congrats on the quarter. And I don't mean to harp on this too much, but it's been discussed quite a bit, but if you had to reduce your LCR, just want to understand management's approach, would you rather slow down loan growth or get the required deposits through NRTD and compromise a bit on NIMs?
Thank you for the question, Piran. I don't think there is one answer to that question. It is not a choice of either/or. It will be a mix of both that we will work through. We can't really say that we are willing to pay any price for a deposit to fund our loan growth, and similarly, we are not saying that if deposits are far too expensive, we will not grow at all. We operate in a model where we will optimize both variables, so the honest answer is there will be a path that we will find to grow with deposit cost increases as we move through in the future.
Got it. So in the interim, it is fair to assume that there is a chance your loan growth does not grow 4-6 percentage points higher than the industry, in the interim. That's a fair assessment, right?
Kiran, I think the request I have of you is, the 400-600 guidance that we had was based on the structural strength of the franchise, and we said that that's the number that we will target in the medium to long term. We did not hold ourselves ever accountable to do that number on every sequential quarter basis. The comment that we've added through this call is, given where liquidity is in the market today, we do expect deposits to constrain advances growth. We will operate within both those metrics, but we are not moving away from our medium-term guidance of 400-600 basis points faster than industry credit.
Got it. Got it. And just secondly, can you talk a bit about what has changed in LAP? Like, under two quarters back, we were barely growing 1%-2% QOQ. Now it's picked up to 6%-8%. So maybe if you could just help us understand what changes you've made to drive growth here.
So, I mean, LAP is LAP growth is an outcome of some of the transformation projects which we have been running. During the last 12 months also, LAP was outgrowing within the mortgages business. This year, we've seen a lot of stuff come together in terms of delivering the growth, which we are seeing. Portfolio quality remains strong, so we expect this growth to continue.
We'd like to improve the turnaround time.
Something would have changed, but we-
We can't hear you clearly.
Oh, sorry. I meant, have we improved, like, say, our turnaround time? Have we added distribution, a new partner? Something would have changed that it picks up, pretty smart.
It's a mix of everything. We've added partners. Turnaround time has improved. Our channel management has gone, gotten stronger. Sourcing from branch has increased. We've gotten deeper, deeper distribution into our rural Bharat Banking branches. So it's a host of initiatives across the board, which we've been working on, and that's what has resulted into this, into this outcome.
Got it. Got it. Okay, that's useful. Thanks, and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shubhranshu Mishra from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Got a couple of questions on the credit card piece, which is on slide number 22. So when we said 52% is KTB and 33% is known to bank, this entire 33% known to bank is coming from the Flipkart co-brand? That's the first part that I wanted to understand, and also the definition of known to bank. The second part is, what is the mix of revolver, EMI and personal loans, and transactors here in the mix? And what would be the ballpark ROA that we make on a steady state basis in this business, in the credit card business? Thanks.
Yeah, sure. Thanks for your question. This is Arjun here, so I'll try and cover all of it. KTB refers to known to bank, which is a set of customers where we have some information about them, but it's not exactly a customer who has an existing, some other, product of the bank. May not be a current account, may not be a loan, but they do, in many cases, come from our partners, where we have, compliant data-sharing arrangements, which allow us to get a better insight about that customer. No, all of them do not come from Flipkart. We have a similar arrangement with multiple partners. As you know, we've got partnerships with Airtel, we've got partnerships with Samsung, we've got partnerships with Google and also Flipkart, so it's a mix of, of partners.
We do not share, unfortunately, portfolio-specific and segment-specific metrics at the current level, such as EMI and revolve rate. But suffice it to say that the broad trends we have seen in the past continue to hold out this quarter as well. Not sure I can say much more than that. Your third question, I couldn't quite catch. Would you mind repeating that, please?
What, what the ballpark ROA of the credit card business on a steady state business, steady state business, not, like, in this quarter or quarter gone by? That's, that's-
Yeah, no, that unfortunately is something we can't share at the product level. But we do track it, but we can't share it at the product level. I'm sorry.
Like, if I can just in that case, just even one last question: What's the absolute dollar value of the cost of acquisition for existing to-bank and known-to-bank and absolute open-source customer?
This is a product-wise, segment-wise question, and again, we can't share that level of granularity in terms of the metrics.
No, sure, sir. That's enough.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question. I will now hand the conference over to Puneet Sharma for closing comments.
Thank you, Neeraj. Thank you everyone for taking the time, this evening to join us. If there are any questions that remain unanswered or there are follow-on questions, please feel free to reach out to Abhijit and our IR team, and we'd be happy to pick them up. Thank you, and have a good evening.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Axis Bank, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.