Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Mahindra Lifespace Developers Limited Q1 FY 2025 Earnings Conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us on this call today Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO; Mr. Avinash Bapat, CFO; Mr. Sriram Kumar, FP&A, Costing, and IR; and Mr. Rabindra Basu, Head, Investor Relations. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Michelle. Appreciate it. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our quarter one FY 2025 earnings call. At the outset, I would like to thank everyone for participating in this call. Let me cover a few things very quickly. Most of you are very well entrenched into the industry and what's happening on the budget side. We're still figuring it out, but let me just cover a few things as we see in the market. On the industry, I think a growth-oriented budget has done good on CapEx allocation, infrastructure and roads, good focus on upscaling with fiscal discipline in line toward the path of India 2047. So at least at the macro level, it looks very progressive.
Focus on development across Bharat, across India. It also touches inclusive growth with a strong element of simplification and ease of doing business. Implementation, we will see how that gets done. Budget has focused on enhancing value in the agriculture sector, as you have all noted. For the real estate sector, I think one of the big things that we are trying to understand is the impact of indexation, and maybe, we'll learn from you as well as you, some of you have shared thoughts with me, personally. On the real estate market side, pan-India, we continue to see sales momentum in quarter one, FY 2025.
Overall, if you see how the recovery has been in the sector over the last three years, so compared to quarter one FY 2022-2023, it's been a 27% CAGR over the last three years, so it's a healthy growth. Premium housing and mid-premium segments, which is our target segment, they now constitute over 70% of the market, so we are playing in the bulk of the market, and we'll continue to push our presence in a few specific markets that we are operating, especially MMR, Pune and Bangalore. Pricing continues to be healthy, driven by notable market shift towards premiumization, Dil Maange More, and all those things that we have talked in the, in the past.
The inventory overhang, as we track that, has actually reduced in the last 11 or 12 months since quarter one of FY 2024 to currently as of 30th June 2024. It was 15 months, now it's 11 months, so that's a remarkable statistics for us to understand. With respect to MMR, Pune and Bangalore, I'll quickly cover. MMR continues to thrive as micro market like Central Suburbs, Thane, and we will be seeing good traction. This is at least from an organized sector point of view, it's largest market with annual sales of INR 150,000 crore. Inventory overhang reduced here as well from 16 months at the end of 30th June last financial year.
30th June 2023 to 30th June 2024, it came down from 16 months to 11 months, something that we track very carefully. In Pune, a strong sales growth due to, you know, proximity to manufacturing, IT and infrastructure also. Pune continues to be a vibrant city, and good momentum there from an inventory also. The inventory overhang has come down from 11 months to eight months from the, for the equivalent period. Bangalore, which is a very, very exciting market for us, Bangalore maintained its dominance with a strong end-use base for the mid segment. Even plotted has emerged as a preferred investment choice. High-rise continues to be the bellwether, but plotted in the last 18-24 months have gotten a lot of traction.
Inventory overhang has come down from 10 months, 30th June 2023, to eight months now. That's how we are seeing the market. Impact of indexing on real estate, what we should announce two days ago, we're still trying to figure that out, but that's something hopefully will affect less of new launches, especially for end users, but we can talk more later. In terms of our business, let me just cover the highlights for sales, launches, business development, and IC & IC, and then I'll request Avinash to cover the financials. On the sales side, we achieved a quarterly pre-sales of INR 1,019 crore, which was, last quarter one, last financial year was INR 345 crore.
It reflects a healthy jump 3x , but you know, this is a lumpy business. This will have ups and downs as they are linked to RERA and new launches. In Q1 FY 2025, our new launch sales contributed 71% of INR 1,019, and remaining 29% were from sustained sales from the project launched in the past. Also, you know, it's launch driven, and many of the launches did happen in the month of March, which we got the benefit in the first quarter of this year. We have a healthy sales pipeline from the launches that we had in the past, but also the new launches that we are planning for the current financial year.
So hopefully, hopefully, our sales, pre-sales will continue to be on a healthy track record. I just want to highlight that it will not be four times 1,000, because it has, you know, ups and downs given the seasonality, and the lumpiness of this business. So that's a quick summary of the sales side. On the launches, as I mentioned, the Q1 FY 2025 sales were driven by many of the launches that we saw towards the middle and end of March 2024. So Mahindra Codename Crown in Pune, Mahindra Zen in Bangalore, and Mahindra Green Estates, the plotted in Chennai, these drove a big part of the momentum. Mahindra Zen in Bangalore, launched in March 2024, received a phenomenal response for us.
81% of the inventory is already sold out. It's a smallish project, I think INR 470 crore, but 81% is already sold out. Mahindra Codename Crown in Pune, launched in March 2024, received a good response. This is the first time we have moved to eastern part of Pune. We have 40% inventory is sold out till date. Our second quarter development launched in March 2024 in Chennai, called Mahindra Green Estates, also received a, you know, strong response. But we see this is the second launch we've done in the same location, so we are trying to make sure that the pricing and momentum continues.
We've launched a new tower, Tower A, in Tathawade, Pune, along with the retail space, in first quarter, and we are seeing good traction, but more of the momentum will come through in the second quarter and the following quarters post that. Kalyan Tower phase II was launched. It was launched after June thirtieth, so technically in quarter two of this financial year. This has a GDV of INR 225 crore. We will see a busy FY 2025 with a number of upcoming launches. We are accelerating the launch of Vista phase II, given the response that we received, and Navy, which was our society redevelopment, is going through the final stage of approval.
We hope to launch it ideally in quarter two, but, you know, given the issues and delays potentially with approvals, it may extend to October. But I think we are gearing up for that launch aggressively. We have acquired another two acres of land, which I'll cover in the business development side, next to Zen. So that, that also will be launched in this financial year. Citadel phase III. Citadel phase I and II were launched in the last two financial years. This financial year, we're going to launch Citadel phase III. Crown pase II, we will decide at the end of quarter three.
Given we launched phase I last quarter, quarter four of last financial year, we'll see how the inventory and momentum is and how the pricing is, and we'll move it up by one quarter by launching in Q4, or we'll see whether we need to stick to our original plan of Q1 of FY 2026. But that's something that we are aggressively tracking. Westerra is the other society redevelopment project. We are continuing to track that. It is amalgamation of two societies, so it takes a lot of time to actually bring everybody together, but that's also part of our current year launch. We are also looking to launch our first plotted project in Jaipur, Project Pink, and we are awaiting the final set of approval.
So our rest of the year is filled with exciting set of launches, and hopefully we'll continue to have momentum driven in our sales, driven by new launches. Covering business development next, GDV additions in quarter one was INR 1,400 crore by end of first quarter. So we signed the deal on twenty-ninth of June, but we waited to announce it because we were closing two more societies within the cluster redevelopment, which happened a week later. So overall GDV of the Borivali redevelopment Sai Baba Nagar is INR 1,800 crore. INR 1,400 crore of that happened by end of quarter one, and INR 400 crore happened in this quarter. So that's total INR 1,800 crore.
We also, post quarter one, we also acquired the plot next to Mahindra Zen, a 2.37-acre plot, which has a GDV potential of INR 250 crores. So, so far in this financial year, including quarter two's closures, we've added more than INR 2,000 crores in our GDV. And we continue to get many attractive opportunity at our disposal. One of the key thing I had spoke in our previous calls was how we need to see more and more deals. At least I feel more comfortable that the flow of deals are is much, much stronger for us. Many times we are the first port of call, so and we have the opportunity to take them forward if meets our financial thresholds. Last one, IC & IC business update.
I think a good start to the year on IC business. Manufacturing continues to gain traction in India, and hopefully more and more global companies will find India as their natural home for manufacturing. Our IC business has grown over the years in our industrial parks, with it being a preferred destination of choice to companies, both domestic and overseas, that are seeking to set up manufacturing operations, so they really love the plug-and-play model. This is one of the few PPP model that has really worked, working closely with the government. In terms of the performance, we ended quarter one FY 2025 with leasing, which is a perpetual leasing sale of roughly 19 acres translated into INR 76 crore.
With MWC Jaipur taking the lead with 13 acres, INR 50 crores there, roughly INR 50 crores there, and Chennai with around INR 27 crores. Which also includes some amount of transfer fee. So that's our quickly the industrial performance. I think I would say a good start to the year on all fronts, whether we sale GDV, IC leasing. We remain excited about the opportunities that lie ahead of us, and, and we, we'll talk more about it. In the meanwhile, I'll request Avinash to cover the quarter one financials.
Good morning, everyone. This is Avinash Bapat here, the CFO. Let me just take you through the financials section. As all of you know pretty much that many of our operating entities from the residential business, including Mahindra Homes or Mahindra Happinest, for example, or even IC & IC business like the World City, Jaipur and World City, Chennai, are not consolidated on a line by line basis, so that also. That only gets reflected in the financials as share of profits. So to that extent, some of the numbers would not exactly reflect the entire true nature of the business that we're handling.
But whatever is reported based on Ind AS, we saw that our consolidated total income stood at about INR 206.7 crores in Q1 of FY 2025, and this is a better performance as against the INR 110.1 crores that we saw in Q1 FY 2024. The numbers for this quarter was mainly driven by, you know, the revenue recognition that we, we did in our project Vicino, Tower A3 and A4. As a result of that, the consolidated PAT, which is after all the non-controlling interest, et cetera, stood at INR 12.7 crores, as against a loss of INR 4.3 crores in Q1 of FY 2024. Our cash flow position was healthier.
The net operating cash flow, which is excluding the land-related outflows and all, was about INR 287 crores. This was supported by strong collections during the quarter, as well as, you know, the IC business, which generated good amount of revenue. So based on that, we have a consolidated debt of INR 398 crores, on a full consolidated basis. So let me just chip in here with respect to some clarification. The net debt at consolidated level, as per Ind AS, would reflect INR 570 crores, but when we do a complete consolidation of debt as well as cash, the net debt would stand at INR 398 crores. So that's a reduction in both as compared to the previous quarter.
Our cost of debt, in fact, on a fully consolidated basis, the net debt to equity rather, let me put it, that as first. The net debt to equity actually stands at 0.21 on a full consol basis. The cost of debt stands at about 8.6%, and again, if I translate that to a complete consol basis, it would actually jump up to 8.96%. But that would, that's a small reduction as compared to the prior quarter. We were at 9.03%, and that has come down to 8.96%.
So based on that, what we would like to report is a healthier consolidated income, better PAT as compared to last quarter, and a better cash flow, resulting in, you know, a good quarter for the company. So that's a small brief on the financials. Would like to conclude, and then would like to take a look.
That's good. Thank you, Avinash. So I think that's a quick summary from our side. We'll open the channel for questions and discussion. So, Michelle, over to you.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only hands while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, Mr. Sinha. Congratulations on the second consecutive quarter of clocking INR 1,000 crore plus of pre-sales. So now, though I congratulate you, but my bigger worry is now that you may be the pre-sales run rate now, though I'm not analyzing it, but seems to be now running ahead of your business development efforts and business development. So, I mean, you have been last two years almost accruing close to about INR 4,000 crore of new business development. So now, how do you look into your guidance of INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore by FY 2028, which implies 50% pre-sales CAGR, even if I take the midpoint of that guidance of INR 9,000 crore from, say, this year, INR 2,700-INR 2,800 crore on my assumptions.
So how, given that kind of a growth which you need to deliver to achieve that, so how do you think now on the business development side, you need to step up, though you have given INR 2,000 crore in financial year to date. So do you think that now this year is like, I mean, going to be a transformational year where we will see these efforts of last three years, four years or INR 4,000 crore now going to maybe INR 7,000 crore-INR 8,000 crore and then going ahead further into the coming years? So that is kind of a quantum you need to do to achieve these numbers.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Parikshit. It's a critical question that you are asking, and probably the biggest one that we are carefully analyzing on a daily basis. So, let me answer this into three parts. First part is, I now, it's been a year for me here. I now feel much more comfortable with the flow of deals. So the kind of deals that we are seeing is quite healthy. So, it's up to us to close those deals if it meets our financial and other thresholds. So I think that's first part, important one.
In the past, I, I felt that we were not seeing the deals that are, where we are first port of call, you know, it was rejected by others, potentially less interested used to come to us. I think that's starting to change. It's not changed, you know, but we are starting to see movement on that. That's the first part. The second part is, I just want to highlight to you what our full GDV looks like. We have signed between quarter four and quarter one, roughly INR 4,000 crore. Alembic, Sai Baba Nagar, and a couple other small deals in Bangalore, Windsor, and it's Goodhouse, that's INR 4,000 crore. I have unsold phases of roughly INR 4,000 crore from Vista, Citadel, Wagholi, and a few others. I have unsold inventory of more than INR 1,000 crore.
So INR 4,000 crore, INR 4,000 crore and INR 1,000 crore, so INR 9,000 crore. I have land in Project Pink that we are first launching, significant land in, in Jaipur. We have in, in Chennai, which we are replotted, and we have a new, which, which was known to all of you in terms of Murud, we are thinking of launching it at the earlier. So across all these three, it's somewhere around INR 3,000 crore, full potential value of those. So INR 4,000 crore, INR 4,000 crore, INR 3,000 crore and INR 1,000 crore, so that's INR 12,000 crore. In Thane, we have applied for IITT Policy after 63/1A exit, that's INR 8,000 crore.
So that's INR 20,000 crore of GDV that we currently either own or have a path to, let's say, launching. Obviously, concentrated GDV like Thane, it doesn't get materialized in the short term because it's a multi-year effect.
So we are, we are sitting on a decent, let's say, GDV, but our work is cut out. That's the part three in terms of what we intend to do. My goal is to sign the right deals, at the fastest speed. But you know, the land owners' expectation in these markets are very, very, they vary a lot. You know, they look at the pricing in the market and say that's how the land should be priced. And it's our job to make sure that those deals are set up really well.
If you buy the land at or do a JDA or, or do anything that is assuming price of the land, and if market slows down two years, three years, four years, five years later, then we'll be sitting on a project that will not give us the bottom line that we are seeking from a financial point of view. So efforts are, you know, so we have good flow of deals. We have a strong base of project that we have to bring to market at the earlier. And our business development effort on the GDV addition side will continue. That's something that I personally look after, and I pursue that seriously.
That's something we will see more action coming on, but it will not be chasing growth for the sake of chasing deals, for the sake of growth, but it will be the right deals for us, for the future of this, this company. So those are the three-part answer I just wanted to give you, Parikshit.
Any same directionally, like, how does the INR 4,000 crores number look like from the mid point of view, beyond the land parcel that you exist, hold existing, land parcel we hold? So, how do you think this year it could maybe look at this number growing, that INR 4,000 crore and one addition?
Sorry, Parikshit, you're talking INR 4,000 crore from GDV or sales, you're talking?
GDV, GDV. I'm talking about GDV.
Last year was like INR 4,400, crore right? Our goal this year is to definitely, you know, go beyond that. We'll be measured about it, but that's what I just want to. I don't want to give a number and then say, "Hey, you know, you said something, and then you didn't score well against that." I just—my goal is to scale this business. For us to achieve INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore, that's the raw material. We're not going to stop, but we're going to be cautious about it. I would rather achieve, let's say, instead of INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore, let's say, I achieve INR 7,500 crore, but good quality deals. That is more value, which gives us bottom line, is much more valuable to me than trying to do INR 10,000 crore, which doesn't give me bottom line.
Got you.
That's what I'm trying to optimize. My goal is definitely do more than INR 4,400 crore that we did last year.
So we should be looking at something like INR 7,000 crore-INR 8,000 crore to get profitable deals rather than chasing INR 9,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore , you may see some dilution, right?
You know, Parikshit, I can't answer that question. I know you're doing your modeling this way. I, I know, I'll keep it a little bit open, you know, from my side.
Okay. So the next question, and the last one, is on the delivery. So I mean, we have seen EBITDA being negative for quite some time. I understand that these are historical projects coming up for recognition, and period costs seems to be much higher than the projects which are into recognition. But if you can give some more color on FY 2025, 2026, 2027, so where in our own projects will start moving into recognition. And when do you think will be a time where we will start seeing EBITDA at least turning positive? Because I think you will have some sales on delivery, so at least if you can give some color, at least on deliveries, quantum of deliveries and million sq ft coming up in the next two, three years, that will be helpful for us to model profitability on the EBITDA side.
Yeah. Let me ask, Sriram to answer that question. Sriram?
Yeah. Hi, Parikshit, this is Sriram.
So from a resi profitability perspective, as you know, like, you know, the launches we've had in the recent past and, you know, you know, the year before, you know, will technically come for completion over the next, you know, sort of, one to three years. So, you will see the resi profitability picking up as and when, you know, we have these completions as per our standard plan. And, the one thing I can assure you is we are well on track as far as the completions and as far as our, you know, the resultant revenue recognition and profitability is concerned.
So you will see that, you know, over the coming quarters on, you know, how the revenue recognition, the profitability improves on the residential side.
Let me add something, if I may, here. I think we are trying to change the portfolio of our projects, right? And that transition will take time, right? Right now, we still have many of the projects that were, pre, let's say, 2020, or during 2021, as well as pre-2020, right? And those projects are either, let's say, affordable or projects that have gone through many challenges with approvals and many other issues, right? And as long as they are there, they will create a drag on our profitability, and that's what we see because of those are the projects that are completing right now, right? And they're creating a drag.
My feel is from the next financial year, not from the FY 2025, but FY 2026 onward, you'll start to see the new portfolio of projects start to kick in, which will try to absorb the drag a lot more than right now what we are seeing in our balance in our P&L and balance sheet. So Parikshit, I think, and we are also seeing that, but the health of the business is reflected in the operating cash flow, like net of, ideally you can net out, you know, construction costs you need. You can see how well our operating cash flow, how good is operating cash flow, right? And that's something that we track very carefully.
So it's a long-winded answer to your question, but hopefully you will see more and more improvement on the profitability side than you have seen in the last few years.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sinha.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, everyone. So first, congratulations on a great performance again for this quarter. So first, just a housekeeping question on, what is the quantum, the GDV of the launches you did in this quarter, and how much will be the sales contribution, from that for the quarter? And secondly, for the launch pipeline you have highlighted for rest of the year, I think it includes one of the society redevelopment projects. Will you just quantify the expected GDV value of these launches for the rest of the year? Yeah. Thank you.
So, let me answer the second question, and then I'll request, Avinash or Sriram to jump in with the first part of the question. The rest of the year, we will have, the Navy is a big one, redevelopment that you touched upon. It's roughly INR 950 crore-INR 1,000 crore GDV. But that's not the only launch we are planning. We have Vista phase II, which is going to be close to INR 1,500 crore. We have Citadel phase III, which is another, you know, INR 1,000+ crore. And we have, likely Westerra, which is just close to INR 500 crore. These are, these are the four large launches that we have planned in the second half of this year. Obviously, awaiting approvals and a few other things.
There are some other minor launches also that we have, in terms of size, which is Pink, with, in Jaipur, INR 200 crore, Plotted, that we have already seen in Chennai. There'll be more Plotted that will come out, and there'll be a couple of other launches here and there. So that's, i f you add all, all of them together, it will probably be INR 3,000+ crore worth of launches that will have minimum, for the rest of the, financial year. So that's the quick answer to that. What we have launched in quarter one, is, is actually small. I think it's only Tathawade, right?
Tathawade is, roughly how much?
Hundred and.
INR 100 crore-INR 200 crore, right?
Adhidev, I think the biggest thing is the launches that we did in, let me call it. For us, the launch is the only way we call it a launch, but most of the launches happened in April. So that was roughly INR 500.75 crore of Zen, right? That was the biggest one that we had. Then we had.
Crown, which is the new and eastern part of Pune, which was, I think, INR 500 crore. We sold INR 300 crore of that. That was the second one, and then we had it plotted. Again, we got the RERA in March, but we did all the launch events, everything in the month of April. So all those things, if you add all of them combined, it will be, let's say, close to INR 1,000 crore across all the three launches.
Okay. So to understand correctly, most of the sales would have, for this quarter, would have come from the new launches itself, right? Which we have done in March and-
The split is 71/ 29. Of the 1,019, 71% is new launches, 29% is sustenance.
Okay, okay. Including the Q4 launches, obviously, which have a spillover effect. Okay.
Exactly.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, the next question, sir, is on more broader question is on our BD and operating cash flow, right? Based on our, when, whatever launch pipeline, right? What is the sort of operating surplus you would see going ahead yearly, right? And compared to that, how would our land spend compare? I'm just trying to understand how we are looking to manage the funding part of our group plans over there, between equity debt and using our own cash flows. Yeah.
Yeah, in terms of cash flow, let me explain.
Yeah.
Cash flow from operations, which is, let's say, before, you know, payments towards land go out. If we look at last couple of years, right, from like FY 2022 onwards, it's been in the upwards of INR 600 crores plus. In fact, INR 650 crores would probably be the average. Even for the first quarter, we are, you know, we are at INR 287 crores, and the target is to be equal to or more than what we have clocked in the last year. That is the starting point.
So having said that, obviously the, you know, the outflows towards land are, one, discretionary, and two, you know, futuristic in nature, obviously, because, we wouldn't know, right on day one as to whether we would be doing an outright purchase or whether we would be doing a JDA or, you know, there are multiple models in terms of land-related outflows. If we look at how the activity for land, related acquisitions has been, there was a significant, jump in the last year, that was almost INR 800 crores plus, or almost INR 850 crores plus, towards land. Having said that, in this year as well, depending on the kind of projects that we are undertaking, it could be maybe either equal to or slightly lower than that.
If we go into more society redevelopment or a JDA kind of project, this will be a slightly lower number. Other than that, it would probably be a healthy INR 700 crore-INR 1,200 crores towards land as well.
Yeah. So, just to add, I think the one thing I would say call out is, the FCF growth that we are seeing, you know, in our business is being very robust. You know, compared to the last year same quarter, you know, it's about 118% growth over the prior year. And the residential collections for us, you know, which stood at INR 540 crore for this quarter, is also close to a 96% jump over the prior year. And, you know, as Amit and Avinash alluded to, the recent launches that we have had since March, you know, those are also expected to contribute, you know, the cash flows heading into the into the next quarter as well.
So, overall, we see, you know, very healthy cash position and collections, which also, you know, is reflected in our net debt ratio as well, which, if you see, it's come down from 0.34 to about 0.21 in this quarter.
Okay. Yeah, yeah. So that was very helpful. Just one suggestion, going ahead, going ahead, if you could give some reconciliation of the, what do you say, the OCF generation and the land spends we are doing separately. I understand in society relevant projects, we'll have some corpus payments and again, rental payments and other things to the owners, right? And if you could just segregate that, so help us understand the, the BD spend and the existing business cash flow generation going forward. That's it from my side. Yeah. Thank you.
Very good. Thank you. Very good suggestion, good suggestion.
Yeah.
We are trying to clean up the analyst report also, the investor report that we, we'll continue to take your suggestions and improve that. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. We'll take the next question from Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you so much. Good morning, and congratulations on good numbers. First of all, can you talk a bit about what kind of competitive intensity are you seeing in this new GDV? Especially in the light of the fact that you're now saying that you are seeing change in Mahindra becoming the first port of call. What is driving that, and how is the competitive intensity now versus a year back when you joined?
Yeah. So, I I think you are referring to competitive study on the BD side, not on the land acquisition, yeah. I think, let me say that, if we like a piece of land, and it meets our commercial thresholds, we don't lose that land opportunity because of speed or the way we function anymore, right? In the past, Puneet, it used to be, our decision-making used to be much slower, and as a result, anybody who wanted to sell will know that Mahindra may not take a decision in the next month, two months, three months, six months, and they will naturally go to a faster decision-making, you know, organization, right? And at least that's the first thing we have done is I say, if you like the piece of land, and it meets our financial thresholds, we take decisions quickly.
And if we don't like it, we send in the next, many times in the same day or in the next few days after we've done the due diligence and then the writing, we're able to inform that. So we don't waste each other's time. And that word has gotten around that if Mahindra wants to do the deal, and they are saying, yes, they really mean it, and they will execute on that. And you know, that's something I've seen already in a few times, four, five deals that I've been part of since I joined. And we also keep work very closely with our ecosystem partners, the legal team, the accounting team, and the financial due diligence team to make sure that the speed at which we want to operate, they also operate with us. So that's something extremely valuable.
So in terms of the competition, competition is always there. But there are certain elements that, you know, allow the competitors to work with us. Many time it's a corporate to corporate deal, like the Olympic deal. It's much easier because of our brand, our governance, the way we work. They're much more comfortable dealing with us. Even the society redevelopment, if you see, they're very comfortable dealing with us because we will not do something that is wrong by them and by us, right? So those are things that allow us to create a little bit of, I would say, differentiation compared to what we were doing in the past. Are we there in terms of, you know, getting the same, exactly the same set of deals and same risk-reward profile?
I had reminded myself, I keep reminding myself and my colleagues, is that, you know, we are a, I'm a corporate CEO, I'm not a promoter CEO, and the risk-reward profiles are very different. So which deals they will pursue versus which deals I will pursue, it is very different. And I will take different kind of risk, they will take different kind of risk. So those are some of the things that we are seeing, and that's how we are able to convert some of the flow of deals in our favor, in our favor. Many times you also lose, but that's a good learning for us, and it's never, you know, you always learn something out of it.
That's very, very good. Thank you so much. And just on the same side, so versus a year back, are you seeing more people on the table discussing or competing for the same land parcel, or has that remained largely static?
Yeah. So mixed bag. I think Bangalore, I see a lot more. You know, it's like, if you don't move fast or if you're not giving a competitive deal, I think the deal goes away. And as you know, Bangalore is a lot more corporatized from a real estate perspective than, let's say, Mumbai or Pune might be. So Bangalore, I see that what you said exactly. But in Mumbai and Pune, I think there are other local players, regional players also that play a very big role. So I see the relationships, your proprietary nature of your deal. So, like, ideally, the best deal is the one where it doesn't go to others. You are the first port of call.
You talk to the landowner, and then you craft a deal that works for both you and the landowner. And I think we try, we're trying to crack that piece of market, especially in Mumbai and Pune.
Okay. That's the reason. Thank you so much. Secondly, you know, you're, you're talking about taking your sales potential last year, INR 2,700 crore- INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore. How are you scaling up your organization, and are you seeing any potential bottlenecks in terms of availability of construction partners, contractors, et cetera?
I think, it's like India's cricket team. You'll always have constraints everywhere, right? You have to, you know, the pitch is not good, the conditions are not good. Sometimes the swing is, you know, troubling you. But, you know, these are part and parcel of execution. And I think, as long as we are solving it together as a team, we are getting there. We see, our attrition came down last year, and we continue to focus a lot on our immediate leadership and the broader, you know, organization. We are investing in talent, career development, new programs have been launched. There are fun events. This is the first time the whole company went to an annual offsite ever, at least of this size.
So we're making everything to make sure that the our associates, our colleagues are excited, they are engaged, and they are able to get career enhancement through their relationships, their exposure to Mahindra. Not Mahindra Lifespace, Mahindra, and we have, you know, created many transfers in and transfers out opportunities for them as well. So hopefully this new Mahindra Lifespace on the talent model also will see excitement. But you know, we have to work with the constraints and conditions that we are operating. And there'll be some good days, there will be some bad days, but hopefully we'll, we'll, we'll deliver what we have promised to our customers and our shareholders.
That's very interesting. Thank you so much. Lastly, on the plotted development, you talked about, you know, making that a big part. Will that be a focus area, largely for the IC part, or even for normal residential business you would enter into plotted development as a business opportunity?
I think we, we are trying to monetize land wherever we have. So IC is a starting point. Land was available, was not giving us returns, so we said why not we, why not we move forward? So we've already done two and on the cusp of doing the third one, in Jaipur is the third one. But in the resi also, we are looking for land parcel, like Alibag Meridian, we did plotted last year. Of the 26 plots, we sold 22 already. So it's part of both monetizing IC land that is there, which could be used for resi, as well as new land that we can acquire for plotted. It gives very good return. The lead time is, you know, less than 12months-18 months. We like plotted quite a lot.
Understood. That's very helpful. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all the participants, may we request all the participants to restrict their questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Wadhwani from Monarch AIF. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible?
Yeah, please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you very much for the opportunity. So first question with respect to the launch pipeline. You in the earlier, to the earlier participant, you mentioned that, the number, the number of projects and the GDV that is coming around INR 4,000 crore roughly. So just want to know, like, we have a good number of projects that are there in the pipeline. So what will be the number that in the FY 2026 also? Like, from the I, I hope there are every project not getting launched in FY 2025 from the, our own pipeline.
Yeah, yeah. So you're right. Let me just make sure I understand your question well, Rakesh. You're saying that what the FY 2026 pipeline look like, given what I explained was the FY 2025, right?
Yes.
Is that what you're asking? Okay.
Yes, sir. Yes.
So I think this is a great question, and I think for us, we worked hard last financial year to set up this financial year well from a GDV perspective, right? And I think Parikshit mentioned upfront, our GDV always has to lead the sales. So you have to always do more on the GDV so that you get your sales to happen. So now I'm working towards the GDV for FY 2026 now, right? And the first step is getting INR 2,000 crore with Sai Baba. If you launch it, you will not get INR 2,000 crore in the same year, right? It will take, maybe if you're very, the market conditions are favorable and it's a very successful launch, you'll get maybe 30%, 40%, 50%, right?
So I need to do, to achieve, let's say, a handsome growth on my FY 2025 pre-sales into FY 2026, I need to do a lot more GDV. That was the question that Parikshit was asking, and some of you also touched upon. And I think so I'm working towards creating the additional headroom in GDV that will ensure me at least a 30%-35% growth on an annual basis, so that I get to my 5x aspiration, right? So that's what we are working towards. I don't want to give a very specific number, because these are lumpy deals. Sometimes you'll hit a home run, sometimes you'll be, you know, doing a singles, boundary versus singles in cricket analogy again.
So I think, but 100% aligned with you that to set up FY 2026, I need to lock in more and more GDV, because the GDV that I currently have will get depleted in the current financial year, and then it will have not enough, you know, fuel left for the next financial year. So that, that's where we are working towards.
Okay, thank you for that. Second question with respect to the profitability. Just now, in the past, we have most of the, our own projects, where we are the landowners. Now we are looking into the, that are redevelopment project also. Just wanted to understand how the margin profile in that product segment works. Like, what will be the gross margin and EBITDA margin, and is there any drastic change in both the business, like, both the product segments?
Yeah. So, yeah, I think in the past, when we talk about our land, I think it was mostly in the World Cities that we had done. In all other places, we had to buy land, and do the development, like Luminare or Alcove or Vicino. Even let's say, Kandivali, you know, obviously, we had to buy from M&M, right?
Yes.
It was very painful negotiation with them because both sides are, we are on opposite sides, right? So we are always buying land, but what helps is, you know, your, your, you have to do underwriting really well. We run our company now internally based on IRRs, right? Both it captures the cost, the pricing, as well as the timeline, right? And we look at each of the land parcel from that lens. Does it give us the IRR that allows us to make money? And we have threshold IRRs which are high because we know there'll be dilution that will happen as a result of adverse conditions. And from a growth perspective, we want to make sure that we don't sign deals that will give us pain in future years, right?
That's very important, because you'll say, "Oh, you know, the accounting profit will come later. IRR seem healthy, but in the last three years, we have cost overrun, the IRRs came down." I think that's something we're really trying to avoid as we build the new Mahindra Lifespaces. So from a profitability point of view, you will see the impact of project that we have launched in the last financial year and current financial year, and these will have three-year, four-year lag effect in terms of when they reflect.
So next year, 2025, 2026, you know, are going to be the tricky, where we have the, let's say, drag of the previous project that I mentioned earlier, which will hurt us, but from the next financial year, so FY 2026 onward, you'll start to see the impact of some of the nicer projects where we have done the IRR and design and everything well. But 2027, 2028 will only improve from there on.
Okay. One last accounting question. In the PPT, the investor PPT, slide number 17, the cash flow of the residential business is given. It is like INR 6,035 crore. The bifurcation is also given, so like how much are we expecting from ongoing projects, future phases, new projects. The new project amount is INR 2,008 crore. Just wanted to know what is in that new project? Does that include Thane also, or the new project includes only the projects that are already blocked in and we are supposed to launch?
Sorry, your voice wasn't clear, so we couldn't understand.
Okay.
Could you just ask the question?
Ah, okay. So, so, in the investor presentation, slide number 17, there's a slide which says Residential Sustainable Future Cash Flow. Under that, we have mentioned, we expect INR 6,035 crore estimated cash flow from all the projects that we have. So, we have bifurcated in that ongoing cash flow from ongoing future phases, new projects. So under new projects, the cash flow expected is INR 2,008 crore. Just wanted to understand what is, what does come under new projects. Does it include Thane project also, or the projects which are, we have already locked in but not launched?
No, no. So, this does not include Thane, because we want to be conservative in our projections. Thane will take some time because the IITT Policy is a very arduous, long process, and we have started this thing, this process, but it's, it will take some time. So in the current, the slide 17 that you see, we have not factored Thane, as of now, but it has factored some of the land acquisition that we have done. Let's say Alembic is there. It has a, Windsor, which has, I don't think Sai Baba is factored in. Is it Sai Baba?
It is.
Sai Baba, Sai Baba is factored in there. So it includes INR 4,000 crore of GDV that we won in quarter four and quarter one. It has unsold of INR 4,000 crore, which I mentioned at the start. It does not include Thane. It does not include, Murud or any of the other, things, the subsequent phases, and you see the unsold, or ready to move in inventory there. So it's a more conservative view that I've given you there.
That's very helpful. Thank you, sir, and best wishes.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Saboo from Nippon AIF. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, and congrats on a good set of numbers. Firstly, you know, during the last quarter call, you had mentioned that we would be requiring around, you know, INR 7,000 crore-INR 8,000 crore for expansion, and one half would be funded through internal approval. Half we would be looking to raise funds even on a platform level or, you know, on a promoter level. So have there been any progress on that particular piece?
Yeah. So there are, I would say three, four discussions that are going on. Given, they are internally at Mahindra level, externally with some of the, other fund houses, as well as some of the global, partners who have interest in pursuing India opportunity and India real estate opportunity with a credible, responsible player. So discussions are underway at, each of these, you know, let's say conduits. My sense is, given the confidential nature of this discussion, et cetera, we'll be able to share at the, at the very, whenever it's concluded or close to conclusion, we'll be able to share the details.
Understood. Thanks for that. And just, secondly, can you just provide, you know, like, you know, approx number of, you know, how much deliveries and, you know, ultimately, financials are we expecting for the current year?
Deliveries meaning, Vaibhav, what do you mean by delivery? Apartments? Number of apartments.
Like, yeah, so how much, you know, the revenue recognition can we expect, just an approx figure, just for the year?
You know, I'll give you a number, if that's okay. I think, because linked to OCs, et cetera, it will be around, if I exclude the IC business, it will be ±INR 1,400 crore is what we expect, for which we are either we have completed waiting for OC or will be completing and will be applying for OC.
Understood. Just one last thing. What type of launches are we expecting in this quarter?
I answered that earlier. I think there are, you know, seven launches that we are expecting, roughly seven launches. The prominent ones are going to be, Vista, which is phase II of Vista Kandivali. We have Navy in Malad, which is ideally this quarter, but may still lower depending on the approval. The third one is, Citadel phase III. We are waiting for some policies that have been approved as implemented, for our project. And then there is, Project Pink, the plotted in Jaipur. So these are the prominent four. Westerra is the other redevelopment society, which we might be touch and go for quarter four, but we'll see. And there are a few other smaller launches in Bangalore.
Understood. Thanks, and all the very best for the future.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Komal Chaudhary from Ratnabali. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Most of my questions are answered. Just wanted a small clarification on the completion of the project this year. I think you mentioned eight projects to be completed this year, and out of those, how many are legacy projects?
I think eight were the launches, Komal. In terms of completions, I think it'll be, what's the number of projects? I think if you include the towers and all, it'll be closer to 10. You know, because many of them are, most of them actually, all of them would be legacy projects, Komal, because only legacy projects will be completing. So these are pre-2020 or 2020 projects.
Okay. And so my second question is on the redevelopments that you're doing. What is the IRR we are expecting over there?
You know, so, you know, we always look for highest IRR. I think some of this is, Komal, confidential, but let me just highlight something for the benefit of the, I can't share the number, but I tell you that at Mahindra Group, we have an ROE target of 15%-18%. A growth business slightly lower, but around 18%. And I think we are, although this business is not measured in terms of ROEs, it's measured more in terms of IRR, but at least, you know, from a shareholder perspective, that's the direction we want to go to. And so we've made many changes in our business model in the last 12 months. First of all, we are costing it conservatively, knowing that there's always inflation and escalation and surprises.
We also keep contingencies. We also have additional cushions for adverse any surprises that we might have. So we are doing costing much better. We have DLP separately accounted for. All those things are being done in a lot more conservative way, giving sufficient, hopefully sufficient room for any kind of challenges. Similarly, on the pricing side, we are a lot more conservative. And obviously, recent success, especially in the boom time, has taught us that we can be a little bit more aggressive on velocity and pricing. And we always, you know, learning from each of our launches and experiences. So we are targeting the highest IRR projects. In some markets, it's very high. In some markets, it's close to what we typically see in this business.
That, but we continue to push the boundaries on that, while keeping our cost structure and pricing more conservative.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thanks.
The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my questions. And congratulations on good set of numbers this quarter. So sir first, I mean, given the fact that we're planning to launch a host of projects, I mean, I thought I'd check with you on how is, so have you seen any change in approval timelines? Because we are selling good, and most of our peers too, have been selling seriously good, so which is where the idea would be to want to launch as many projects as possible, right? To encash the sort of demand that we have in the market. And it's very difficult to be able to kind of push people at municipal corporations or lesser area to kind of work beyond the normal working hours.
Fair to assume, I mean, the approval timelines would have changed, given the fact that these guys are full of, I mean, there are too many files that must be reaching these guys now.
Yeah. So I think you're right. We saw quarter one was, I would say, slower than what we would have ideally liked in terms of the speed of approval. But we understand many of the officials' business was affected because of elections, almost, I think six weeks. So we, you know, we couldn't change that, whatever we tried. So we do our best. I think you use the word for launches. I think for us, what matters is successful launch. So not only the launch, but warming up the market and making sure our channel partners are well, you know, ready. There is a pull created from customers through all the marketing, but you can only do it after RERA.
So we are always balancing the needs of the market, the needs of a launch, which to make it successful, as well as the regulatory requirements. And approvals sometimes get delayed, and our quarter one was slightly slow because of election and other reasons, but we'll hopefully make it up in the subsequent quarters.
Sure, sir. So, sir, so I was going through our annual report for the year, and what I observed is that we've created three new entities this year, Ample Parks, and I believe, I mean, this is under the JV that we have with Actis, with the understanding that we have for warehousing projects. So we signed this agreement in, I think, 2022, and since then, I mean, the potential still exists, but then the yields have changed. Any thoughts? I mean, how do you intend to approach this now? So the recent plans, the ways. And then would you, would we see some change there?
These two entities, Ample Parks one and two, would you be able to share more on these? I mean, which locations have we been able to identify land parcel and the recent notification that we saw in Chennai, right, on SEZ site? Has it something to do with these two entities?
I think, you know, Prem, I think allow us to do a formal release on that, because there are still multiple issues in terms of approval that we are waiting. We don't want to jump the ship and, you know, jeopardize anything. So, we'll share the detail as soon as we have concrete deals closed, give us that flexibility. In terms of Ample Parks, that's a partnership with Actis. The fundamental principle was we have a lot of understanding of how industries buy, where they buy, what they're looking for. They wanted to build a powerhouse for BTS and warehouse, and naturally, we are partners together.
It thumb rule target is 70% for them, 30% from a capital perspective, while the entity will also take that. It does have a linkage to the places either we have land or we have understanding of the land and industry. So we'll share the details as soon as they are concrete from all perspective.
Sure. And just one last, if I may, please, and on Happinest side, and how do we intend to approach that vertical now? Because then after COVID, we've seen a rising preference for larger units. And I think which is where when I look at the numbers and it seems as if Happinest is gradually becoming even a smaller portion of our overall, I mean, in overall scheme of things for us, I mean, only INR 50 crore-INR 60 crore a quarter, and we have, we still have some INR 600 crore-INR 700- odd crore of inventory to go. And we would have some team in place also for this vertical.
When I look at the BD activity that you're doing, at least since 2021, which is when we started giving out information on BD, we've not done anything on the Happinest side. So how do we intend to approach this vertical?
You know, so, I think in my strategy, I was clear when we talked publicly with all of you and other forums, is that, our focus is going to be, mid-premium and premium. So if you break the market into four segments: affordable, mid-premium, premium, and luxury, we play in the middle two. And that, this segment is roughly 70% of the overall market. Luxury obviously has value-wise significance, affordable value-wise, maybe 10%- 15%, the remaining is luxury, right? So we want to play in this, this, these two segment, mid-premium and premium, and that is reflected in some of our land decisions over the last recent year, two years, right? We will fulfill our commitment.
If there is a very large opportunity in affordable that comes, that meets our financial threshold, we will look into it. We're not saying no to it, but it has to meet our financial thresholds every time we do a deal.
Sure. Any thoughts on, I mean, how long would it take us to kind of liquidate the existing inventory? What is already underway and the balance potential.
I think it will be we are carefully targeting anywhere from two to four years. Some of the phases are more recently launched, which are part of subsequent phases of promised project, right? It's just been launched. So two to four years, we'll start to see most of the cleanup that will happen.
Sure, sir. Thank you, and all the very best at your job.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. We'll take the last question from the line of Ronald Siyoni from Sharekhan. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, sir, and thank you for giving me the opportunity and congratulations on this set of numbers. So I have two queries, two concerns a bit, you can say. First was, you know, in the recent meet, you know.
Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt. Your audio is not clear, sir.
Yeah.
Would you like to use your handset, please?
Yes, now I'm audible?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
That's better, yeah. Thank you.
Hello, is it audible now?
You may proceed now, sir.
Yeah, thank you. So I have two queries, you know. First was, with respect to the recent meet which we had, you know, in that, there was a takeaway, that, you know, parent was not investing in Mahindra Lifespace, despite, you know, being a growth gem, and they had been shying away from last two, three years, we can say, directly, infusion into the company. Despite, you know, you doing strong numbers over the last three years. So has that thought process changed? Because, you know, we are three years down in the cycle, and yet, you know, that confidence from the parent is not there, and they are still looking, you know, through, funding partners or, say, other partnerships for funding. That was the first.
Yeah, so yeah, so, it's a great question, and I think, I used to be on the M&M side till last year, right? A year, within, on this side. I think, I, I know M&M and, and we are trying to make MLDL also similar to how MLDL thinks about capital allocation. It should be focused on the best returns for shareholders, right? Capital will go where there are best returns for the shareholders. Obviously, you can adjust the returns a little bit lower if you see hyper growth, right? And which is what we are trying to show that we want to grow. I think the first year for me personally, as well as for MLDL, was to show that we are fully transparent with our portfolio, where our business is, IRR is, all those things.
I think there is a good amount of clarity that's there. And then we are trying to launch new projects that show that there is a promise and delivery execution in line with the plan for good projects, premium projects, mid-premium projects in line with our profitability. So I think there is a good traction that's already happened. And I think there is already discussions about funding. The format, the timing, et cetera, will something that we'll work with them, but already discussions are underway. But we have to continue to deliver and show that we also have a good, strong path to healthy returns in IRR or ROEs.
Okay, sir, thank you very much. And second was, you know, sir, the execution front you touched upon. So, still, you know, execution or deliveries have been lagging, and you have been outperforming on launches and pre-sales. So, there is a little bit concern here that, you know, two, three years down the line, we may, you know, end up at the same point where, you know, the cost would have increased and, you know, you may suffer losses. If not to this extent, but, you know, profitability may narrow down if, you know, we cannot—we do not gear up on execution. So if you can touch upon that, you know, how confident are we on that front?
I think we've brought many changes. This is. You're asking a question which is so critical for this business, right? How do we - 'cause you plan, and then you execute for five years, right? And how do you keep up to the plan that you, you know, made up five years before, right, to the final day of OC? And then you have to, you know, survive that another five years because you have to give a defect liability insurance. It's a ten-year projection that you have to do for even the, you know, mid-sized project, right?
So it's a tough one, and that's why I think we are being cautious, conservative in our estimation, that, hey, given all the past experiences that we've had so far of doing projects and, you know, dilution of profitability or projects which have done well and received better profitability, what is the driver and how do you reflect that in our learning, those learnings into our execution and our actions? I think a lot of effort is going on. The teams are geared towards it, our construction team, our design team, they all are working hard towards solving this. But there is no way I can give you a full confidence.
At least we are, at least I can tell you we're trying our best with intent and effort, but till we deliver, you know, there is no, no way for us to prove that we are on the right track. And there will be some puts and takes. You know, my sense is if we are getting there 90%, 95% accuracy, it still allows us to meet our financial thresholds. So hopefully, in the next couple of years, you'll see the impact of what we are doing now. It will be tough to show any earlier, because what you'll see in the financial is what was done three years back.
Right. Okay, sir. Thank you very much, sir, and congratulations again, and best of luck to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as that was the last question for today, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO, for his closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Michelle, again. Thank you to all the participants. It was great to have a good discussion on our, how has been our quarter one. We are quite excited with the prospect going forward. I also want to remind that quarter one was a, you know, INR 1,000 crore is a, is a strong one, but there is seasonality ex- you know, expected in this business, built into the business for the financial year. We are working hard towards scaling our sales, launches, BD, and continuing the, you know, extraction, monetization of IP business. You've been a great source of feedback and many of you have actually, you know, helped introduce to some of the landowners, et cetera, as well. So thank you for all the support.
We are indebted, and we look forward to your feedback and continued support for growing this company. Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Mahindra Lifespace Developers Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thank you.