Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Mahindra Lifespace Developers Ltd. Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing * then pound on your touch-tone phone.
Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us on this call today Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO; Mr. Vimal Agarwal, CFO; Mr. Kumar Sriram, Vice President, FP&A and Costing and Investor Relations; and Mr. Rabindra Basu, Head Investor Relations. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Rhea. Much appreciated. Good morning everyone and welcome to our Q4 FY24 earnings call. At the outset, I would like to thank everyone for participating in this conference call. Let me quickly cover a few things at the start, and I'll request Vimal and you all to jump in with the financials and then we'll take questions. Let me cover, let's say, five things.
Just to recap of where we are in our growth journey, I'll touch upon sales, I'll touch upon launches, business development, and update on IC & IC. So a quick refresh, the first one is on our strategy. As you all know, we continue to enjoy a very strong upcycle in the real estate industry. Post-COVID, the momentum continues in this market, and as you've seen through multiple sources, that this momentum is expected to continue for some more time.
In fact, the GDP contribution from the real estate sector is much lower than many other developed countries or even some of the other more developed or developing countries. So we expect the momentum to continue. The ready segment will continue to have a lot of buoyancy driven by per capita income, driven by the desire to own home across urban and non-urban centers.
When we last spoke in the October earnings call, I had shared a quick summary of our strategy, which is to achieve a strong franchise at Mahindra Lifespace, which means taking our aspiration to where we were in FY23 five times over, which meant we'll target a pre-sale scale of INR 8-10 thousand crore, a strong balance sheet, a strong IC & IC business, which has allowed us to fund a lot of our growth on the residential side, and also become a target for our target customer segment, our attractive destination or target customer segment.
That journey has started in the last financial year, and we are glad to share that this year marked the first step in that direction where we are trying to take Mahindra Lifespace to a franchise that's respected, scalable, and then doing great projects for all our customers.
Keeping that in mind, I just want to cover the next part, which is the sales part, number two. We achieved quarterly sales of roughly INR 1,100 crore, INR 1,086 crore precise, versus a number which is one-third, INR 361 crore, in the last quarter four FY23. Our full-year pre-sales stood at INR 2,328 crore, so just over INR 2,300 crores, versus INR 818.112 crore in the last financial year.
Roughly, I would say 30% growth over that period of time. We had very exciting launches during the year, especially in the quarter four, and some of those quarter four launches will continue to give us momentum in the following year, which is FY25 and even FY26. A very interesting data to share, our new launch sales contributed INR 3,122 crores, so 57% of our INR 2,328 crore FY24 sales came from new launches. The similar number was 77% in FY23.
So it's quite interesting that we've not. This is a year which marked a very inflection point. The first nine months, we had a lot of sustenance sales that held us strong, but in the last quarter, we've seen a strong momentum driven invariably by our Mahindra Vista launch. We have a very strong lineup for FY25 and even for FY26, which we'll continue to share with you.
But my big learning from the sales journey in the last financial year is that we are doing well to achieve our 5X aspiration that we set out in the last financial year. Number three, launches. Launches are an important part of our success story. In Q4, we launched phase one of Mahindra Vista in Kandivali, which has seen amazing success.
As you may have seen in the news, which was very visible, we had INR 800 crore-plus of sales in just 3 days. This is also to highlight that it's a critical project for our sustainability journey. It is Ind AS first net-zero waste and energy residential project. This is at the back of our Eden project in Bengaluru, which was Ind AS first net-zero energy residential project.
We've had other launches in March 2024, which was Mahindra Zen in Bengaluru, which also received a lot of strong response. I'll share more about how we think about launches going forward. We had our second plotted development in Chennai, which was on the back of a very successful first plotted development in Chennai. This is our strategy to monetize these residential land pieces that we have in Chennai and all other locations.
Mahindra Codename Crown in Pune, this is the acquisition we had done in October 2023, so third quarter of last financial year. By launching this in 6 months, we've been able to shorten the land-to-launch cycle that we typically see in the industry as well as in the past with Mahindra Lifespace. We also had other launches. We had launched Phase 2 Happinest in Pune, and we are seeing strong traction across that project as well.
We see a very strong FY25 because the launches that you've seen that have come in the last 4-6 weeks, we want to make sure they are as successful as we can make them. That requires us to ensure market warming, participation, and investment with the channel partners, digital media, as well as many things that will ensure that the launch is a slam-dunk, super successful.
We'll see some of that impact come through in the following financial year, which is this financial year, FY25. We also have a very healthy pipeline of launches from the project that we acquired in the past. You'll see more about them in the coming months. Number 4, on the business development side, I think you may have seen that we've been very active there compared to FY23. FY24 had 4 times, I would say, a multiplier in terms of GDV enhancement.
Obviously, it was driven by the Wagholi deal that we did in October. The Olympia deal in Bengaluru, Whitefield, that we did there was a big one. And then we did another deal in Bengaluru near Whitefield in our attempt to deepen our penetration of the three key markets that we are participating in.
We also had, at the start of the year, the Malad deal that was a society redevelopment, and we are hoping to launch it at the earliest, ideally, this quarter. We continue to have a very healthy GDV pipeline, business development pipeline, anywhere from INR 5,000-INR 6,000 crore. This is in addition to the INR 4,400 crore that we acquired last year. It's in addition to Thane, which is around INR 8,000 crore.
And this INR 5,500-INR 6,000 crore or INR 5,000-INR 6,000 crore GDV pipeline goes through a very diligent financial assessment as we are very well aware of the fact that we're acquiring land at the peak of the cycle. So we want to be very careful in terms of signing the right deals for us. On the Thane deal, we had shared in the past quarter that the IITT policy is very healthy from a size and scale point of view.
We've also been able to secure some of the much-needed approvals in the last quarter. Now we are in the process of applying for IITT and other approvals. This is a very large piece of land. The requirements are we need to ensure that we are fully compliant and ready to launch at the earliest.
Our two redevelopment projects, I touched upon Malad already and Vista, are moving along, and we are hopeful that at least one will launch in the next 3-4 months. And the second one, we are closing some of the outstanding issues with the society. It's a little bit tricky because they are two different societies, and this requires more approvals, more work to bring alignment with all the stakeholders. The fifth part is about IC & IC business update.
This continues to benefit from the tailwind that we see in favor of India as a China-plus-one alternative. We also see a strong momentum for domestic consumption. IC & IC business is gaining a lot of momentum through these two sources, external as well as internal driven. We had scaled up our IC business significantly in FY23. We also had a strong year in FY24, and our pipeline will allow us to secure a strong FY25 as well.
Overall, we finished IC & IC in FY24 with INR 370 crores, Jaipur giving us a very strong 76 acres of land, which culminated in INR 234 crores, and Origins, Chennai and World City, Chennai together, roughly INR 135 crores-INR 140 crores. So very, very, very good momentum that we see on the IC & IC business as well. So then I covered five things.
One was the overall recap of the context we are operating in our strategy to scale up our business significantly. This year marks the first year in that direction, a strong year, I would say. Sales momentum has been very good. Launches, we are getting a lot of solid launches with very good sellout kind of levels. Not really sellout completely, but to the level that you want to so that you manage the velocity and pricing.
Business development has started to fire for us. We are seeing good amount of deals. We are closing the right deals for us to secure our future. Finally, IC & IC business continues to give us the much-needed cash that allows us to fund our ready business in a healthy way. Let me transfer to Vimal on financials, and then we'll come back for questions.
Yes. Thank you, Amit, and good morning, everyone. Moving on to the financials, as you all know, many of our key operating entities from residential as well as IC & IC business are not consolidated on a line-by-line basis. I'll read out the key financial numbers for your reference. The consolidated total income stood at INR 279 crore in FY24 as against INR 660 crore in FY23.
The consolidated EBITDA, including share of profit from JVs and other income, stood at INR 75 crore as against INR 61 crore in FY23. The consolidated PAT after non-controlling interest stood at INR 98.3 crore as against INR 102 crore in FY23. The company has net debt of INR 680 crore at consolidated level as per Ind AS, while cash in hand and bank balance and investments were approximately INR 193 crore.
Our cost of debt is stood at 8.58% on consolidated basis, while standalone cost of debt for MLDL is stood at 8.57%. Net debt to equity stands at 0.36 as of 31st March 2024. Net operating cash flow without land-related or land acquisition-related outflows was at INR 639 crores for F24, which reflects the strong collections in residential as well as on our IC part of our business. With this, I'll request if the floor can be opened for questions, please. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
The first question is from the line of Rohit T from Mahindra Lifespace. Please go ahead.
Sorry, I think there's an issue. I'm from National Capital. So my first question, sir, is it's interesting to see the momentum in the business. Curious to know, going forward with the target of reaching INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore, do you think you would need to raise capital? Yeah. So Rohit, we didn't hear you very well. Could you say where are you from? That will be useful for the team also. But what was the question that you said? Capital? Yeah. So is it better right now? Am I more audible? Yeah, yeah. You're good. You're good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I am a long-term investor. I've been invested for four-odd years now. I mean, I follow the company closely.
And basically, in a news article it came across that you'll be looking to raise capital for growth. Just wanted to get the sense of, do you think you need capital to grow from our current pre-sales to 8,000-10,000 that we are planning to reach in the next four years?
Yeah, yeah. So let me cover that. So I think our aspiration requires a GDV of roughly, I would say, roughly INR 45,000 crore. So very healthy aspirations, if I may again say so. One-third of that with Thane in our GDV included, we have one-third in our hand already, probably actually closer to maybe INR 20,000 crores. The remaining would be split into two parts, let's say one-third, one-third, one-third. One-third would be, let's say, alternate business model like society redevelopment, etc., which are slightly less capital-heavy.
But the remaining one-third will require a decent amount of capital. Our estimate is to achieve our aspiration, we'll need something around INR 7,000-INR 7,500 crore of capital. Half of that is available to us through our accruals, our IC business, our debt to equity. We want to be very careful and thoughtful about our debt to equity. But that should be made available to us through our internal accruals, through collections, etc., which Vimal covered.
But for the remaining, we are in the process of doing some discussions, a fundraise at a platform level where even our parent is quite open to participating given their desire to grow Mahindra Lifespace into a growth gem and support our growth aspiration. Those discussions have started. The step one for us was to be very clear about our strategy.
Step two was to demonstrate operational execution on the ground, including pre-sale, GDV, launches, etc. Those things, as we can see, we start to see they are settling well and they are shaping up well. We'll also be looking for any external partner. There is an interest in working with us. We'll bring those pieces of information as and when they become substantive and material. Yes, we need capital, and these are the ways we are solving the capital challenge.
This is very helpful. A couple of follow-ups to this. Did I understand correctly when you said that the capital will be raised at a platform level and not at the company level? Number one is that question.
And second, when we set a target of INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore pre-sales, inclusive of IC and IC, is that the total pre-sales the brand Mahindra Lifespace will do, or is that the pre-sales that will is net of the pre-sales that will be attributed to the partners in the platforms and other spaces?
Yeah. So capital source could be anyone that is aligned with our long-term goals. So it can be at the platform level. It could be at a parent level. It could be PE. It could be QIP. They are all open as long as it aligns well with our long-term investment philosophy as well aligns well with the partners. So no constraints on that. The pre-sales part would be cumulative. So if you have a platform which is let's say, we have a platform with Actis. We have a platform with HDFC.
But we are the ones who own that platform or we are running that platform. So we show the pre-sales for the total platform as part of our numbers because that's how we are operating them. If it's any different structure that doesn't allow us to capture, we will follow the industry norms.
Thank you. That was helpful. And just to confirm that the Thane, you said the GDV potential there is INR 15,000 crore-INR 20,000 crore. Is that right?
No, no, no. I said Thane is around INR 7,000 crore-INR 8,000 crore. It has potential which is quite big, but given the economic factors as well as other factors, we can only achieve that. But our total GDV that we have in our hands is approximately INR 15,000 crore inclusive of Thane.
Understood. Okay. So my last question is I mean, you are sorry.
Rohit, sorry to interrupt. If you're quick, if you can come back in the queue, let's move to the parent level.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your answers.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning. Thanks for the opportunity. First, on the sales performance for this quarter, while we did well in Kandivali, I just wanted to understand, was it a deliberate strategy to hold on to the inventory in other ongoing projects? And because I can see projects like Citadel, etc., which are doing well in terms of sustaining sales, have not contributed much in this quarter. So just wanted to understand that strategy.
Thanks, Pritesh. I think let me so we are starting to follow a very, very disciplined strategy for any launch.
So while the RERA came through for a couple of projects like Codename Crown and even Zen in the month of March, we wanted to make sure that it's not a launch. It's a very, very successful launch. And very successful launch is reflected in the velocity as well as pricing so that we get the benefit to our business. Since they came in March, these are the two decent launches in the quarter four apart from Vista.
We wanted to make sure that the digital marketing channel partner, execution on the ground, our own sales team's readiness, our own assessment of where we are going to land the pricing, all the intelligence required, all of that needed to be done. And I think this started to happen, but we want to make sure from a launch to a successful launch, all these things have to go very, very well.
So you can call it a deliberate strategy of making the launch super successful, but it was not driven by any other reason, but just that's how to make them successful because this is where every launch needs to be done, and we are building those muscles to make sure they are successful every time. And this is a great time for us to be launching because the market is strong. But what happens when the market slows down?
We need to rely on those muscles to make a successful launch, right? And that's what we have been doing. You'll see these pre-sales of those projects come through soon. But I think we followed the successful launch effort rather than anything.
So agree on the new launches, the timing part. But what would be your comment on the ongoing projects?
There also, we have seen some minor dip in velocity. Generally, our sustained sales every quarter has been around INR 215 billion growth, but not the case this time. So just your comment on that would be helpful.
I think if you touched upon Citadel briefly, I think this was one of those years in the first three quarters, we benefited a lot from our past launches or the phase launches, right? And they were in line because the amount of inventory that we released was only small. So I would say that they are in line with what we had expected and what we wanted to realize on the pricing side because this is important for us to always balance velocity and pricing.
I don't want to be saying that, "Oh, we had high velocity, but we gave away too much on pricing given where the industry is." Or I don't want to be in a situation where, "Oh, we achieved pricing, but we just didn't sell much in terms of number of units."
We are always dynamically evaluating how we should have a view on the launch and the velocity and the pricing. So in Citadel and some of the other launches that we had in the past, we have achieved what we wanted to. And that will be reflected in our revenue as well as profits in future years. So that's what I would say. I don't think, and we can have a follow-up discussion to share with you any more details.
But we felt that this year one in our new phase of journey exactly aligned with what we wanted to achieve. And obviously, we are supported by the external market, but we are preparing ourselves to build the capabilities for the longer term.
Absolutely. That's quite helpful and very clear. Second, how do you think about the launch pipeline for FY25? Just specifically, a couple of projects that you have added in Bengaluru recently, would they be launched sometime around this year in second half? And on the society redevelopment projects as well, while you mentioned about Malad, but the Santacruz one, would that also be launched in this year?
Yeah. So we will have roughly I would say right now, the good news is we have very healthy pipeline. So Wagholi or Codename Crown will have phase one is right now.
We'll see how the market readiness is will bring phase 2. Similarly, Vista 1 has happened. Vista 2. Citadel 1 and 2 have happened. We talk about Citadel 3. And there are a couple of others in terms of phase launches of, let's say, projects that we have done, the launches that we have done.
In addition, as you touched upon, Malad, Vista, and there are a couple of other ones that we have acquired that will be part of our F25 launch planning. The 2 land pieces that we acquired in Bengaluru, I think you may be referring to that. One is the larger one. It goes through 2 rounds of approval with 2 different authorities. One is a smaller one. So we will I think that the larger one, the 10-acre one or 9.2-acre one, will take 9-12 months.
We'll plan it in such a way so that it comes as soon as possible, but we'll have to respect the process that exists right now. We'll put all the efforts behind it. My sense is the smaller one could happen sooner because it requires only one set of approvals. So we are putting all our muscles, especially the Bangalore team is fully focused on bringing that to market at the earliest.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to strictly two questions per participant. Should have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the question queue. Next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. Congratulations on good pre-sales this quarter.
So I have two questions. One was, I mean, if you talk about the competition on VV side, I mean, the real estate cycle has been on an uptrend for the last four years now. There is euphoria. I mean, all of us want to buy. I mean, the developers' community want to buy more to be able to scale up more.
Does that mean, I mean, the landowners or the JD partners are spoilt for choices and it's taking a little longer to be able to consummate transactions? And then would it be fair to assume that the landowners would be willing to take chances because there's this euphoria? I mean, you generally get carried away, I mean, in these sort of times, right? So they won't mind tying up with a little inferior developer, but then the idea of we're going to maximize returns.
Yeah. Yeah. No, no. So if I pull up your same question, I think you're asking competitiveness of the industry and then how do we work with landowners, right? Especially even joint development as well as outright, right? That's the question, Prem?
Yes, sir.
So Prem, I think you're right. This is a very competitive industry and very opaque industry. So I wish it was transparent, clear, and everything was very simple. But it's quite complex. And on top of that, you had the approvals and litigations and the clean title issues. So any land that has clean title is valued a lot more than, let's say, land with other issues. So it's a competitive, but I would say that competition will make all of us better, right?
There have been situations in the last 9, 12 months where we have been very sharp in execution, and we have kind of gotten those land parcels or done the launches in front of our other competitors and been very, very successful. So I think there is a lot for us to learn. Our teams are quite excited, motivated with the results they are seeing on the ground.
We'll continue to hone our skills. So you can't wish away competition, but we have chosen our battlefields very carefully. We want to be big in Mumbai, Pune, and Bangalore. Our teams are very well-settled to take on the competition. So that's my broader answer to your first part of the question. The second part of the question is landowners. I must say that it's a balancing act working with them.
Many times, you find the asks and expectations quite difficult for us to economically make a win-win partnership. In outright, you can easily say yes or no. But when it's a JDA kind of situation, it's like a marriage for 10 years, 8 years, 6 years. We have to be very careful and thoughtful who we are getting in the bed with.
Many times, the expectations are very, very high in terms of commercial asks. But we also find that many of the JDA landowners also want to get a decent sleep at night if they have a good partner on the other side. You've seen in this industry, if you make one mistake, not having the right partner who's aligned with you economically as well as value system and other things, it can take a lot of your sleep and peace away.
So we bring some of that to the competitive dynamics. There are many players who will say, "I'll take a shared lower return, but I want to partner with you because I can sleep easy." Those go in our favor, but there are many other situations it does not. We are learning to participate in this market in a balanced way. It's good to do deals, but it's also good to say no to deals that don't make sense. We follow that principle thoughtfully.
Sure. This is really helpful, sir. Second question was, I mean, we have this large land layout in Murud. There is demand for second-home destinations, and it's been there with us for a while now. I understand we have signed an MOU.
I mean, is it possible to be able to carve out a part of this land and launch something wherein you'll be able to offer something to people looking for second-home destination, let's say either plotted or something of villa or bungalow sort of so that, I mean, you're able to monetize a part of the investment that you've made some time back?
Yeah. So absolutely. The whole leadership team went there a couple of months back. We think it's a hidden asset for us. It has huge potential. So absolutely. We are thinking exactly the way you described. This is just two hours from Alibaug jetty. We can get very green a little bit on a hill. You can see the sea, a lot of greenery. So we are absolutely thinking the right way.
In fact, on a lighter note, if you are looking for second home, let us know. We'll be bringing it to market in that region, so. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you. And I have a few more. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much, Ann. Congrats on good sales momentum. You started your commentary by saying that real estate is in a decent upward cycle. And then you also commented that you think that land is at the peak of the cycle. Can you reconcile those two views and also share your thoughts on how you think about different cities in terms of demand and supply environment?
Puneet, your second part of the question got muffled up. You said we are enjoying the cycle. What did you say, the other part?
Yeah. You also mentioned in your comment that we are well aware of the fact that we are acquiring land at the peak of the cycle.
Correct. Correct. Correct.
So if you can reconcile those two thoughts and also give a little more nuanced view of how you think about different micro-markets in which you operate and if there is interest to go back to NCR in a bigger way.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let me start with the reverse. I think right now, I just want to focus on these three cities for now. So as I say, internally, one, two, two. One metro, two tier one, and two tier two. And two tier two, the world cities, Chennai and Jaipur, which are tier two. And Chennai outskirts is tier two. And we have land banks in those locations.
So we have to monetize that. But Mumbai, Pune, and Bangalore is where we are just focusing on our effort. NCR, we do have a project, and we may go back. But at least for the next 12 months, we just want to really execute well in our core market. So hopefully, that's the last part of the comment that you had in terms of expansion. The first part of the question is balancing act, I must say, Puneet, on this. I think good news is that the moment land is acquired at a higher price, the pricing also captures that. So it's not that you'll be out of the pocket in terms of you buy land and the pricing is flat.
So the way we are thinking about is anytime we are acquiring a piece of land, we are very, very diligent about the economic assessment related to that acquisition. And we do lots and lots of market intelligence gathering to ensure that we are able to make our business case work at the time of launch, but also at the time of OC because most of the bad news can happen later, and that's cost and cost of construction related. And that's what we've always been doing. Whenever we find that we and I had to say let me give an example. I had to say no to a deal that we all thought was a very good deal. And it just was just below our financial parameters.
We all discussed that deal, and we felt that, "Hey, this is just below our financial parameter, but there is more downside. If anything goes bad, then there is upside." Despite liking the deal and there were some other factors, we ended up saying no to it. That deal discipline is as important in terms of when you're in the upcycle and there's a lot of hype around the real estate industry.
That's what we are following up, very careful, thoughtful about how we choose the deals and how we participate in the deals. We get supported on the pricing side, right? The last part I just want to highlight is the growth will happen. I give this example internally. All the organized players in Mumbai, if you count them together, their market share is 20%.
Given the cost of capital issue like GST and RERA and all those things, we see what I mentioned earlier, flight to quality. There is more momentum for the organized players, and we will capture share vis-à-vis the less organized or unorganized players in this space. So that is another contributor to the growth. Hope that answers your question, Puneet.
Yeah. And just if I may add, is it possible to share your aspiration of mix for FY28? What cities do you think in what proportion do you think they'll contribute in your?
Ideally, it will be somewhere around INR 6,000 crore from Mumbai, let's say INR 5,000-INR 6,000 crore, and a couple of 1,000 crore each from Pune and Bangalore. And if you want to introduce a new city, we will look into that. That will be on top of this.
So Mumbai will still remain the most important decision for you?
It has to be because from a pricing and stability of the market, Mumbai is very, very strong.
Understood. That's helpful. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on a great set of pre-sales numbers. Sir, a couple of questions from my side. One, in terms of Kandivali land payment, how much is done till date, and how much is pending?
So I think Vimal can correct me, but 55% is done, and remaining 45% would be happening in the current financial year, right? Right? Correct me, Vimal.
Yeah. So a little more than half is done, and balance will happen over the next one and a half years.
1.5 years. Next 2. So not 12 months. 80 months. Yeah.
So 55% is done, and the balance would be in next 1.5 years?
Yeah.
Yeah. Sure.
And also in case if you could help in terms of the land outflow for next, say, over next 2 years from the current projects, absolute amount if possible?
Yeah. So fundamentally, I just add that what Amit just mentioned in terms of our aspiration to acquire GDV, which is spread across Pune, Bombay, and Bangalore, you can do the numbers based on those is what I recommend because we don't share the exact cash flows on a financial year basis. But you know the land cost in all these three micro-markets. If you are looking for any specific information, please let us know, and we can take this offline.
Sure. Sure. I'll get back. Sure. So second question is, I mean, though we are doing as far as our large projects or the recently signed deals are concerned, but in terms of our projects like Kalyan, Boisar, Palghar, there it seems we've lost momentum. So any thoughts on that?
Yeah. So I'll break this into two parts. Our aspiration is to be a mid-premium, premium player. And some of these locations are a little bit far from a demand-supply point of view. And as a result, you see the pricing or velocity gets constrained and the cost because a little bit tougher location to make things work. It's difficult to have all those work in your favor. So our goal is to finish those projects in line with our commitments, meet our RERA customer commitments in every which way, and then evaluate whether you want to go to whether you want to do anything more.
Our aspiration, I said, is to be mid-premium to premium player, ideally as much premium as possible. So you'll see less of those, but we will play it by the year for the right projects. Sure. Sure. And I have one more question if I can. Go ahead quickly. Let's cover quickly. Sure. So just clarification on Thane. When you say INR 8,000 crore, that's only for resi part, or it's a mix of commercial in terms of potential? It's 50/50 based on the rules of IITT policy, 50% resi, 50% commercial.
Got it. Got it. Thank you. I have a few more questions. I'll get back to you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Komal Chaudhary from Ratnabali. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Yeah. Go ahead, please.
Yeah. Hi. I just have two questions. One is, other than the Thane project, which is a mega-category project for you, do you have any other project in line as big as this?
So right now, no. Right now, no. We don't have. But I would say some of our other projects like Kandivali is close to INR 3,000 crore. Our Citadel is close to INR 2,700 crore. So we have. And if we are able to monetize, let's say, Murud and even a couple of others, there should be north of INR 2,000 crore projects. But right now, you're right, one mega project. And mega project, for us, is anything more than INR 5,000 crore. And category A project is INR 2,000-INR 5,000 crore. So we have multiple category A projects, but a mega project is, as of now, only one.
Got it. Got it. And so what about the Thane launch? You had mentioned that you'd launch it in the first half of FY25. Are you in line with that?
I think we had talked about FY25 or FY26 Q1 because the land has multiple approvals, Komal. One of the approvals was something called 63(1)(a) exit, which has been secured in the last quarter. The next approval is to get IITT policy sanction, which we have already applied for. Post those clearances, then we'll apply for all the RERA-related approvals.
So these are three steps. And we had to wait for some of this because the IITT policy only got cleared in August of last financial year. So we worked on the clarity on what we want to do, how do we monetize it, get the exits from the industrial land, then get into IITT, and then go into the RERA part. So that's what we are doing. My sense it will take another year or so for us to launch.
Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Congrats for the amazing set of pre-sales numbers. I was looking at your presentation and looked at your pre-sales guidance for FY25, which is INR 3,000 crore. But if I look at your launch es, you have a strong pipeline of launches for the projects that have been already launched, for example, Kandivali, then you have Wagholi, then you have Citadel. So how likely are you or is your guidance conservative? Because according to the launches you have, you could easily beat those INR 3,000 crore of numbers. So what are your pre-sales targets for FY25?
Jatin, I think you already increased our guidance by INR 500 crore.
So over INR 3,000 crore was and look, that was a calendar year, right, in a way, right? It includes IC and IC business as well. So we expect to generate INR 500 crore or so from the IC business. So INR 2,500 crore is the guidance that we had given for FY25 and then INR 500 crore. So you can say we are already INR 2,700 crore or INR 2,800 crore, INR 2,800 crore, right, on IC and IC plus resi combined. So that's healthy. And you're right.
If you have achieved INR 2,800 crore, it's INR 3,000 crore aspirational. Our goal is to deliver and then talk about it rather than give a promise and then not deliver. So that's what we are hoping for, not changing any mid-term targets. I think we should look at long-term targets like INR 8,000 crore-10,000 crore in FY28 is what we are shooting for. And all our efforts are aligned to achieving that.
And you've seen the year one of the journey. And I think year two would be hopefully as exciting.
Okay. Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from Nippon India Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
No. Hi. So my question has already been answered in the previous thing, but just one thing which I wanted to highlight. Sir, you have mentioned that INR 3,000 crore number is something which is obviously you want to beat, but just highlighting that from FY24, INR 2,800 crore odd number that we have undertaken, if I look at that lower range, that is INR 8,000 crore guidance for FY28, that comes out to a compounded growth of around 30% year-on-year. So just working back from that, wouldn't the company be targeting, let's say, close to INR 3,300-INR 3,400 crore resi plus IC and IC combined for FY25?
Sir, so Vaibhav, I think you're right. That's a strong expectation, and we will strive for it. I'll hold myself from giving any guidance given how we have operated in the past. Hopefully, we'll keep updating you how we are progressing in these calls as well as one-on-one basis. I don't want to give a promise and not meet it. I just want to make sure that we do great work, we think of long-term aspiration, manage our balance sheet, and continue to deliver good results.
Thank you. Understood. That's it from my side. All the best for future. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Sen from RoboCapital. Please go ahead. Hi.
Thank you for the opportunity.
I understand you refrain from sharing guidance, but I just want to understand how much margins do we target in our residential projects? As you previously said that we target mid-premium to prem ium. So how much margins do we target there, around 30%?
Yeah. So in our case, the margins better would be to see the way if I may, Vimal, you correct me. I think margins in this industry is a little bit confusing, if I may say so. I think the right way to assess this industry is from an IRR perspective. So how much you put in upfront for land, how much you put in, let's say, between land to launch, and then from launch, you start to collect cash, which allows you to fund the construction as well as, let's say, part of your land investment.
Then you get an OC, and you get the project closure, etc. So you know the life cycle probably very well. So that's how we measure IRR. Our goal is to be always north of 20% IRR. And that's, let's say, project IRR pre-tax. If you do equity IRR with the right debt to equity capital structure post-tax, it'll come out to be a couple of percentage points higher. But we always look at this as a portfolio.
So right now, we have 28 projects going on. 18 projects are well underway. Five have been launched in last financial year. Five are going to be launched this financial year. So we look at, okay, when this has affordable, this has premium, this has all sorts of other vintage, and it has all sorts of our geographic spread.
So we are saying that how do we, as a portfolio, deliver a 20% IRR which is in line with the expectation that anybody should have from a return on invested capital point of view? So that's how we look at the business. So not necessarily margin because the accounting story gets very convoluted to understand what the projects are doing. But this is how we think about it.
All right, sir. This helps.
Thank you, Aditya.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mitesh from Finway. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Go ahead.
So first of all, congratulations on a great set of pre-sales numbers. I have recently started covering this space, and as a young analyst, finding it difficult to comprehend few things. So my first question is related to accounting.
How do we record revenue in resi and IC and IC business?
I'll request Vimal to jump in. So yeah, resi, tell me if I'm correct. Resi is as per the RERA rules, so only OC you can count. It's 100% completion. And then IC is practically in here. It's like leasing is as good as revenue. So in a way, if you lease this year, you'll get the leasing converted into revenue in the same financial year.
Okay. So our FY24 revenue is around INR 212 crores, while our lease premium from IC and IC business was INR 370 crores. So can you explain the discrepancy?
Yeah. Go ahead. So the reported numbers actually are as per Indian accounting standards, which basically says that there'll be line-level consolidation for entities where you exercise full control. And that's a litmus test from an accounting point of view.
What happens in IC leasing entities, we have a stake, say, in Tamil Nadu, we have if Tamil Nadu government or say, Jaipur, we have got Rajasthan government stake where they do have shareholding as well, let's say, in the operating key matters. And therefore, in those entities, only the share of profit or say, the last number from their payments gets picked up into that India's consolidated number. Therefore, that's the reason top line you don't see IC leasing numbers, while in the bottom line or say, the profit number, you see our share of profit getting added.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And just to confirm, in resi business, example like Kandivali Vista , will be completed in financial year 2029. So we will record the whole revenue of INR 1,200 crore in FY2029, right?
Yeah. It will get recorded in the year in which it gets completed. Okay.
What about the related costs like land acquisition and construction costs in the same year, right?
Okay. That's right.
Okay. Lastly, what will be the value of our unsold inventory?
Our unsold inventory, including various land parcels which we have acquired, should be upwards of about INR 8,000 crore.
Okay. No, I'm talking about the ready inventory which are ready to move, which you have shown in the PPT.
Ready to move in inventory, you're asking?
Yeah.
Yeah. Ready to move in very, very minuscule. Most of our properties and inventory is sold out. There's a very small number of about INR 60-INR 70 crore which will be there. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Thank you for answering the question.
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
Next question is from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from Bugle Rock Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good morning. And thanks for the opportunity.
And see, my question is on acquisition, okay? And I appreciate the part that we acknowledge we are near the peak of cycle, okay? We have generally seen that the prices don't fall for residential projects historically by a very large number. But the sales velocity, collection, and inflation on cost side hampers the returns or IRRs, okay?
How do you manage those risks? And also, to one of the replies, you stated that risks can happen at OC level, okay? And for two of our projects, which had happened, okay, historically. So how has the process improved versus what we were doing in the past, okay? So some of your more thoughts on the process improvement and more clarity on the philosophy of working will be helpful.
No, Himanshu, I think it's a tough question to answer on a short call with a couple of minutes.
I will urge you to come over, and we'll spend time with the leadership team to explain how we solve this equation. And you're right. In this business, when you're top of the cycle, what we are trying to do is we are trying to optimize this velocity and price premium project by project, location by location. In some location, we say that, "Hey, we don't want to sell out the whole project.
We want to keep some inventory because we do know the price improvement will happen based on micro-market and comparison with other micro-markets nearby and competition, etc." So you're always making those choices. But the most important thing right now is that the capabilities that are required to make that assessment is both intellectual and experiential, right? You cannot just say, "I'm very smart. I can predict the market," or, "I've got so much experience.
I will not do analysis." Both are the two. Both of these things have to be happening together. That's what we keep doing. In addition to that, actually, the biggest trust area for me going forward is going to be project execution, especially cost of construction, the procurement, the design specs, the design specs, the procurement excellence because that's where you will end up losing a couple of basis points or a couple of percentage points of margin and being able to manage through inflation because labor costs will go up 5% every year. There could be spikes in the commodities, steel, cement, etc., aluminum in a couple of years. Your business case should be able to account for that. That capability, we are building.
We already had a strong one when I came in, but the costing center of excellence, the procurement team, we're just amplifying the effort that's required. Let me just pause at that. It's something that you'll have to experience by talking to our leadership team. I will welcome you to come over, give us some time, and I'll share more details.
One last thing. Generally, in bull markets, what we see is land which is cheap is generally inferior, okay, or will take more time to launch. It can be because of various issues. The land which is good is extremely expensive, okay? How you choose where to focus on because even a good land, if it takes more time and cost escalation or, let's say, lower sales velocity and all those things can eat away the returns, okay?
So when or how are you focusing on, and how do you decide that this is the time to be courageous, to be patient in the market?
Yeah. So you'll have to see us in action for a few years for you to determine that. My sense is once see, in this business, the thing that we want to avoid is deal fever. "Yeah, deal करनी है, बस करके रहेंगे किसी भी प्राइस पे," right? And that's something that we have been coached, and we have seen from other industries that you want to be very careful with that. We should be able to walk away from any deal if we don't think the contours, the guardrails are not right.
And that's what we want to follow because in other, if it's a different non-corporate or less organized player, they'll say, "I look at cash in, cash out, and I can take the I'm okay to do the project." But for us, IRR is the mantra. We just can't avoid that. So we're very careful when we're doing the deal assessment, go through a rigorous process, and it allows us to judiciously take decisions. That's what I would say.
Okay. Thanks from my side. And best of luck, Vimal, for your future. Hope to interact with you in the future at some other levels. Thank you.
Okay. Yeah. So I think we should thank Vimal also. This is his last analyst call. He is moving from next week to Mahindra Holidays, so maybe you can listen to him there.
So thank you, Vimal, for everything that you have done and the relationship you've built with all of our extended partners.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Aditya. Thanks so much.
I think we had a couple of quick questions. Should we take just five minutes and close things out? Yeah. Pritesh, I think you're go ahead.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sorry. Just had one question again on margins, right? Since you have started this whole scaling up in the last three, four years, we have now almost launched every project which we signed in the last couple of years. Just on the project level, EBITDA margins or whatever margins you were to guide to us, how are things looking? Earlier, we have guided for 15%-18% EBITDA margin on a blended basis.
But do you see any upside now on that number because of the kind of realization, etc., that we are getting on those projects? That would be just one question that I would ask.
Yeah. So Pritesh, as Amit very extensively mentioned and talked about the IRR focus, fundamentally, what it means is that we are not getting into any land parcel acquisition or any launch which is not IRR accretive. By extension, what it also means is that any launches over the last few quarters are not of our guardrails. Similarly, the earlier projects, few of those may have got impacted because of slower velocity or real estate industry not really firing initially, you see. However, we have got very strong controls to ensure that we deliver as per our committed guardrails. So that's where we are. Overall, it's very much on track.
Sure. I'll take it offline. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Pritesh.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the follow-up. So just one clarification in terms of Origins, Ahmedabad. It's been a long time. We are actually looking for an anchor partner. So any thoughts out there?
So yeah. So Origins, right? So yeah. So Origins, we already have. You're talking Origins phase two, right? Right.
No, no. I'm talking about Origins, Ahmedabad.
Ahmedabad. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So we already have IFC there, right, as our partner. So you're looking for an anchor client is what you mentioned. Right. Right. Yeah. So we get a lot of requests, Shreyans, for Ahmedabad, which are small 1-, 2-, 3-acre kind of demand from them.
We want to get to an anchor client which is at least 40-50 acres+. We end up saying no to these smaller ones because it won't make sense for us to develop the whole infrastructure just for a small revenue base. As we have seen, I've been there personally, what I've seen is the land is still maybe 5-6 km away from all the industrial movement and the warehousing movement and the build-out that's happening.
My sense is the next 2 years, we'll start to see a lot more demand. We have right now maybe 2 good-quality, large customer discussions happening. But there's also competition with some of the other GIDC, etc., that creates some of the challenges. Neither IFC nor us are in a hurry to find an exit from this. We are looking for the right tenants, right clients.
Given the mo mentum in the country as well as in Gujarat, we'll hopefully find good solutions.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Sure. And sir, secondly, as far as Origins Pune is concerned, what's the status there?
The three parts. Part one is land acquisition for access road is fairly underway. So we had a lot of land parcel, but we need to make sure the access is smooth and efficient. So that part is underway.
We are acquiring the land. Then there is a stitching problem of how we can make sure that it comes, it's efficient from a layout perspective rather than one or two acres or land pieces in the middle which don't belong to us. So that contiguity is being addressed. And third part is this will also go through a very long, arduous approval process.
So my sense is at least a year to 18 months before this can be brought to the market.
Got it. So large part of our IC and IC contribution would be coming from the existing Chennai and Jaipur.
Yes. It will be Jaipur major as well as Origins, Chennai phase one, and then subsequently phase two.
Got it. Got it. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha for closing comments.
Thank you, Rhea. I think I just want to thank all of you for listening in and giving your input and clarifying the questions top of your mind.
As I mentioned earlier, we are in a multi-year journey of creating a very strong franchise of Mahindra Lifespace which will be a scale and stature which will have a scale and stature that will be an envy for many. And so we are making strong progress. Some of the results that you see today are in that direction, but a lot of work needs to be done for us to achieve that. So thank you for your feedback.
Thank you for your support. We are anytime welcome you for any additional feedback, comments. If you want to learn more about our business, let us know. We'll set it up. Your feedback is incredibly valuable and will allow us to push us more to achieve better outcomes. So thank you all for your support.
Thank you. On behalf of Mahindra Lifespace Developers Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect the line.