Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jeyaraj. Thank you, and over to you.
Thanks, Mike. Welcome to TVS Motor Company K. N. Radhakrishnan, Q4 FY25 , earnings Conference Call. From the management side, we have with us today Mr. K. N. Radhakrishnan, Director and Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. K. Gopala Desikan, Chief Financial Officer. I now hand over the call to Mr. K. N. Radhakrishnan for the opening remarks to be followed by the question and answer session. Over to you, sir.
Good evening. Good evening, everyone. I hope all of you can listen to me. Thank you for joining us today. Cheers and greetings to all of you and your family members. On the overall performance of TVS Motor Company this year, we are delighted to share that during the year, the company surpassed all its previous highs, achieved the highest-ever sales of 4.7 million units, posted the highest-ever revenue of INR 36,251 crore, and the highest-ever profit of INR 3,629 crore. We would like to thank all our customers, all our investors, and every employee in the company for this outstanding achievement. Combined EV and ICE, we have achieved the highest-ever operating EBITDA margin of 12.3%. This 12.3% is including the PLI benefits. Consistently, if you look at quarter-on-quarter, we are at 12.5% EBITDA, including the PLI benefits.
The report, what you will be seeing, is about 14% EBITDA because this quarter we have accounted for the year PLI benefits. Now, coming to sales, the two-wheeler domestic ICE sales grew by 9% over the last year, second to the industry growth of 7%. The two-wheeler international market, the company's sales grew by 23%, against the industry growth of about 21%. Total ICE two-wheelers grew by 12% compared to the last year, second to the industry growth of 10%. On EV two-wheeler sales, increased by 44% to 280,000 units, second to 100,000 units during last year. For the sales of three-wheelers, we are at 135,000 units, and last year was 145,000. During the year, the company's operating revenue grew by 14%. Now it is at INR 36,251 crore. Last year, the whole year, the operating revenue was INR 31,776 crore.
Coming to profits, during this year, the company recorded the highest-ever operating EBITDA of INR 4,454 crore, a growth of 27%, second to the EBITDA of INR 3,514 crore during last year. Company's operating EBITDA improved by 120 basis points at 12.3%, averaging last year 11.1% during the last financial year. This was primarily possible through the robust growth in revenue, sustained cost reduction initiatives implemented by the company. As I highlighted, this 12.3% includes the PLI benefits for the company for the year. PBT for the period grew by 31%, INR 3,629 crore, second to INR 2,781 crore during the last year. Profit after tax grew by 30%, which is INR 2,711 crore, second to last year's INR 2,083 crore. During the year, the company has generated operating cash flow post-capex of INR 2,486 crore.
On Q4, the two-wheeler domestic ICE sales grew by 6% compared to Q4 of last year, while all of us know that the industry was almost flat. There was a marginal decline, actually. In two-wheeler international market, the company's sales grew by 32% over last year. The total two-wheeler ICE sales grew by 12% compared to Q4 of last year, second to industry growth of 4%. EV two-wheeler sales increased by 54%. We achieved 76,000 units, second to last year's 49,000 units of Q4 to Q4 this year.
Three-wheelers grew by 21%. This quarter, it's 37,000 units, second to last year's 30,000 units. This quarter, the company's operating revenue grew by 17%, which is at INR 9,550 crore, second to INR 8,169 crore during last year's Q4. On profits, the company posted operating EBITDA of INR 1,333 crore during this quarter, second to INR 926 crore in the Q4 of last year.
We have recognized the production-linked incentive PLI pertaining to the full year based on the progress made in line with the MHI SOP on PLI. The company's operating EBITDA margin is at 14% in Q4. Please remember, this 14% includes the PLI benefit for all the previous quarters. If you really look at only for this quarter, the Q4 EBITDA margin will be at 12.5%, second to last year's Q4 of 11.3%. We posted a PBT of INR 1,112 crore during this quarter, second to last year's INR 672 crore.
Profit after tax for the quarter is INR 852 crore, second to INR 485 crore during the Q4 of last year. Coming to TVS Credit, TVS Credit has done extremely well. We have added over 4 million new customers. Cumulatively, TVS Credit has served 19 million customers till date. TVS book size is INR 26,647 crore. There is a good growth over last year.
PBT for the year grew by 35% at INR 1,027 crore, second to last year's INR 763 crore. For the quarter, PBT grew by 53% at INR 302 crore, second to last year's INR 197 crore. As I highlighted last time, despite slow credit demand, TVS Credit maintains stable disbursements supported by increased market penetration. We will continue to—TVS Credit will continue to focus on steady growth by increasing market penetration and share, expanding product offerings and distribution, driving digital transformation, and enhancing customer experience and operational efficiency.
Now, coming to 2025-2026, the GDP projected is estimated to grow around 6.5% over last year. It is primarily driven by the increase in consumption and improvement in the agricultural sector. In FY 2025, we have seen overall retail grow by about 7%, even though Q4 was flat. A reduction in the benchmark report rate of 50 basis points in the last three months.
This definitely translates into lower EMI for consumers. It is going to help enhance the affordability for two-wheelers across the board. Another major impetus, which is the new year budget, is income tax rebate under the new tax regime, which is hiked from INR 7 lakh to INR 12 lakh. There is an additional saving which is also likely to support the consumer sentiments. Consistent infrastructure improvement by government that is also going to vitalize the economy and improve the quality of life in the midterm and the long term. We are expecting a normal monsoon, which is going to also improve the rural sentiment and economy. We are expecting a positive sentiment with uptake in the replacement cycle this year. Overall growth momentum in the domestic market we are expecting is likely to be like last year. The Q1 could be moderate.
I think all of us should remember that last April, there was a base effect benefit. May and June will be good. Marriage season has started off well, and May and June this year, there are many marriage days. On EV, EV industry retail on Vahan reached 1.2 million units in financial year 2025. This is from 0.5 million to 1.25 million, 1.2 million, at 31% growth. Average penetration for EV two-wheelers for the year is today 6.8%. The continued focus and the support of EV adoption extended by the central government in the form of PM e-Drive. PLIs are making EVs more affordable for consumers. As all of you know, TVS iQube is established as a very strong brand in the EV segment with its technology, the features, and best-in-class quality. During the year, the company introduced new variants at three battery options: 2.2 kWh, 3.4 kWh, and 5.1.
We are getting very good response. We are also expanding the network. Some of our EV products are in the final stages. You will see these products in the coming quarters. Our recently launched EV three-wheeler, TVS King Duramax, which comes with best-in-class features, including the Bluetooth connectivity to TVS Smart Connect. Combined with innovative technology, it goes into solution. It is definitely going to cater to growing demand for sustainable urban mobility. We are getting very good response, and we will be scaling up in the coming quarters. The three-wheeler EV industry penetration has grown quickly. In Q4, it is around 26%. This I am talking about is L5. Like I said in the last meeting, like two-wheeler EV mobility with TVS King Duram ax, we will aim to become a prominent player in this category.
On international business, financial year 2025, exports from India stood at 4.2 million units at a growth rate of 22.1%. H1 saw healthy growth rate of 16.5%. H2 reported a faster growth rate of 30%. We have done well, and we will continue to keep up the momentum. Exports to the LatAm region experienced higher growth with strong demand in many markets, starting from Mexico, Colombia, Guatemala. While there were some challenges in the Middle East, now company's exports reached 1.25 million, second to 1.01 million, with a growth rate of 24.5%, increase driven by strong growth in Asia. This year, we are happy that Sri Lanka has opened up, while Bangladesh has got some challenges, and very sure going forward it will settle down. LatAm has done well last year.
The African markets, we observed a mixed momentum where growth in the key countries decelerated on account of economic slowdown driven by higher inflation and currency devaluation. We are quite optimistic because many of these African markets, it has reached almost the bottom, and there are only upward revisions possible this year. We are optimistic about the industry's recovery and expect positive trends, and we will grow ahead of the industry in the IV market. As you know, the company has been continuously improving its EBITDA margin year-over-year, almost a decade now. During 2014-2015, the company's EBITDA was at 6%, and now this quarter, this year, we are closing with 12.3%. We are confident that the company will continue to leverage its top-line growth, better product mix, sustain cost reduction initiatives, improve profitability going forward.
The strong range of brands the company is confident of growing ahead of the industry, both in domestic and international markets across ICE and EV. Thank you.
Sir, can we begin the question and answer session?
Yes, please.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants that request to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
Yeah.
We have the first in line of Binay Singh from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi team, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is, what exactly is the PLI benefit that we have in the Q4 margin? We understand 12.5% will include PLI for that quarter. How much is that?
0.5%.
Okay. It means that even adjusted for that, you've seen some bit of a margin improvement. Secondly, one sort of a more longer-term question. One change that we've seen in last year is that the scooter growth, including electric vehicles, has almost been twice of motorcycle growth at the industry level. How do you see this trend in your view? What is driving that? Do you see this continuing? Happy to hear your thoughts. That's it. Thanks.
Brilliant, brilliant question. I think every time when I look at scooters, I used to say that EV coming in, plus the scooter industry, the category share will go up. I think that is exactly what is happening. If you look at the scooter category share, it's almost now somewhere around 38%. It is likely to go up further because scooters have got its own convenience, its own benefit. With the EV scooters, almost 1.2 million, whatever we have seen, I think we are expecting scooters will definitely grow. Another important thing, according to me, is even in scooters, there are different, different brands, different, different sections. This is also going to propel growth faster than the other sectors when you look at the economy motorcycle or executive motorcycle or premium motorcycles.
Right. So sir, in that sense, when you look at a market like Indonesia, we have a very wide range of scooter models, right? Wide range of CC, vehicle weight, and all. When you plan your product in the future, you are also sort of thinking in that direction.
We have to always look at how the customers are preferring, what customer segments are there. For example, we have Zest. This is like an entry-level scooter. Then we have the Jupiter 125. This is more of the executive kind of setting. Then you have 125 CC in that. Then you have an Ntorq, which is completely different. It is for more young, more powerful. If I say like a middle-income group, more of a salaried class, it may be Jupiter 110 and 125, depending upon the preference of the customers. If you look at young who want a little bit peppy ride, faster ride, a little bit better pickup, sleeker, they go for something like the Ntorq. This kind of segmentation, I always say that you look at our motorcycling segment. There are different, different products, different, different products for different, different customer usage.
Now, almost 38-39%. According to me, it will grow further. Scooter category will grow further. More and more segments will come. You have to come up with products which will play in these segments. We will do that.
Right. Great. Great. Thanks. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you. We have the next question in line of Chandramouli M. from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, and thank you for taking my questions. My first question is just a follow-up on the PLI scheme incentives that you have booked this quarter. I just want to understand what percentage of our EV scooter portfolio are we currently accruing these incentives on? Is it on the entire portfolio? You mentioned there is two, three, and five kilowatt-hours. I just want to understand which products there have qualified. Also, if you could just share what the split within electric two-wheelers portfolio is percentage-wise between the two, three, and five kilowatt-hour products.
See, I think we have to look at the total benefits what the companies are accruing. We should not look at which segment is giving how much because we are a completely focused company on customer and customer segments. Just now, I answered to another colleague that there are customers who want 5.2 kilowatts. There are customers who want 3.4 kilowatts. There are customers who want 3.2 kilowatts. We have to look at whatever is the requirement. Government has been very forward looking at the PLI. We look at PLI in totality. We do not look at which is 0.5% on the total turnover. It is a brilliant PLI incentive according to me.
Got it. Got it. That's helpful. My second question is just around product launches. I think historically, we have targeted to do one product launch per quarter. You mentioned in your opening remarks that many of your EVs are in the final stages of development. Just going forward, the next sort of 12 to 18 months, if you could give us some clarity on is it sort of similar run rate of one product launch per quarter? Just heading into this whole stimulus period, lower interest rates, more favorable income tax rates for customers, what is the sort of cadence to expect in terms of product launches as you plan for the next couple of years?
See, we have a very strong R&D, and we will continue to invest in looking at the segments and coming up with the products, both in ICE and EV. And products are getting ready. What is equally more important is timing of these product launches. We launched the Jupiter 110. All of you know that. It has been very well accepted, and thanks to all the customers in India. Now, we are looking at how do we leverage it fully. Same way, iQube, we are now present in about 950 dealerships. Still, we can expand that. We want to be very systematic. We do not want to systematically expand in every market, and it is doing extremely well. We are a very prominent player in EV. We look at the timing.
Even though the products are ready, we will make sure that the product gets what it deserves because we'll be investing quite a lot of investment in people as well as money. Every product should give the best return for the company. While sometimes the products are ready, sometimes we take a very strategic call of timing it into the market.
Got it. That's helpful. Just my last question is around your view of two-wheeler industry growth in India next year. You mentioned that you think that you will have different bases for different quarters. I just want to understand overall how you're thinking about two-wheeler industry volume growth for FI 2026. Also, if you could share the export and the spares revenue for the quarterly.
Sure. See, if I look at the industry growth, this year, April, so far, it's been flattish. If you compare last year with a year before last year, year-to-year loss was bad. Last year was much better. We are building on last year's very good numbers. That's number one. When I look at this year, May and June, likely to be, according to the marriage season, it's going to be much better because the number of marriage days is much, much higher this year. This is number one. Number two, monsoon is likely to be normal. Number three, a lot of investment has gone supporting the infrastructure, roads.
Currently, especially in the last year, Q4, we have seen a little bit of slowness in the two-wheeler industry, primarily according to me because last year, during the Diwali season, the growth was excellent, and rural went up against urban for the first time. The retail financing companies possibly would have taken advantage of that. There was a little bit of restriction in terms of retail finance in the last quarter. I am very sure the reflections are getting much more refined this year. A combination of the base effect plus May and June, you will be seeing more marriage days. Number three, overall, the investments in the economy, I think I said very clearly, while the Q1 may be a moderate growth, but year after four, we are looking at like last year. This is on the domestic side.
On the international side, we expect a healthy growth, primarily because Africa, which was very low last year, just reached nearly the bottom. We will see upward improvements this year. Of course, there are challenges in terms of how the geopolitical things are taking shape, but the need for two-wheelers is still there. I am positive. Always, we are going to be having that caution because there are many things which we have to be closely monitoring, but I am positive. Previous model is positive. With our product range, we will definitely grow ahead of the industry. You asked two things, right? Just a minute. Give me a minute.
The first for the solve the quarter is about INR 907 crore this quarter. You asked for international business, correct?
Correct. Correct.
International business revenue for the quarter four is about INR 2,391 crore.
Got it. That's very helpful. Thank you very much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question in line of Pramod Kumar from UBS. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks a lot for the opportunity, sir. My first question is on the PLI only. Before I ask the question, just wanted the number on revenue side for Q4, excluding the PLI incentive for the previous quarter. You shared the margin at 12.5% for the quarter recurring margin. If you can just share what is the recurring revenue run rate for Q4 without the PLI incentive for the previous quarter, sir?
You wanted to know the PLI number, right? It is 0.5%. See.
No, no.
0.5% of the revenue in the quarter is this one. You can deduct it from the overall revenue. You will get without that. This is number one. Number two.
I'm looking for the previous quarter PLI incentive, sir.
Okay, let me put it this way. Is the revenue for this quarter, including PLI, INR 9,412 crore? Is that understanding right? Just a minute.
You can give the response to this during the course of the call. If you want to have a look at the numbers, that's okay. Is it fine, sir? Can I move to the question on PLI? It is about INR 9,340 crore, somewhere around that.
9,000?
340 crores.
Okay. 9,000?
9,340 crores.
42 crores. Okay. INR 9,342 crores. Sir, my question is on the incentive side because there is a domestic value-add hurdle which you need to meet, and then the incentives need to be cleared. Sorry?
We have put all the PLI only accounted in this Q4. When I.
Yeah, yeah. Which is fine, sir.
Only related to this quarter, we should consider. Q4 underlying EBITDA is INR 12.5.
Yeah. Yeah. Perfect, sir. Perfect. I understand that. My question is that do we see more headroom for PLI incentives improving as we improve our domestic value-added quotient of the products, do more localization, ramp up the scale, and sourcing? How should one look at PLI incentives from the 4Q levels when you look at the next two years, sir?
See, we have to look at it in three things. One, I continue to believe in focusing on the customer. Thanks to the government, they are giving this PLI benefit. As we grow with more products added into the new product launches, EV will grow, and the revenue will grow, you will get more PLI benefit. Equally, recently, we have launched the three-wheeler EV, very well accepted. The PLI benefit on that will also come. Our job is to look at various customer segments and delighting the customer. This is number one. Number two, as we put the product and as we grow the top line, as we were explaining recently, PLI benefits will come. Going forward, continuously quarter after quarter, you will see these benefits going through too.
Okay. In a nutshell, you expect the PLI incentives to continue to keep getting better from year on. Is that understanding right, sir?
Top line will grow. Every new product we will launch, we will get the PLI benefit. Three-wheeler, we have already started. We are applying for everything, and we are likely to get the PLI also there. According to me, the PLI benefits will continue.
Okay. No, that's good to hear. On the e-triwheeler side, because I just looked at the numbers, you're actually practically closing in on Piaggio on the e-triwheeler one in Pan India. If you can just help us understand where we are on the network side because Piaggio, Mahindra, Bajaj have been in this market for a while, and you entered this market only recently. If you can just help us understand the journey so far, how's been the customer acceptance, how many markets you're present, and in those addressable markets where you're present, how's been the market share ramp-up because you're kind of nudging the number, getting to the number three position now, and how big the opportunity could be, say, one or two years down the line, and also what are the product launches or action in the e-triwheeler space, sir?
First, let me give you three things. One, the e-triwheeler, whatever we have launched, we are extremely happy. The response has been very positive from the customer side. This is number one. It has got so much of attractive quality and the features, and customers are really, really loving it. Number two, as I highlighted, this e-triwheeler in the L5 category is growing at a very, very good rate. Now, practically, the penetration levels are close to 28%, and it is likely to go maybe 35%, some very big numbers you can say. That is the speed at which it is growing. We will be a prominent player. Our focus is to become a very prominent player. Like you highlighted, we have only launched in a few markets in the north.
We have just put some markets in the east, and there is a huge opportunity in all India. We definitely respect all the three competitors whomever you have highlighted. They are a great company. I never compare my competitor. I look at always the customer.
Sir, if you can quantify network, how much of the addressable market you've covered, how much of the potential? Just like you said, iQube is there in only 900 outlets. You've got a network footprint of 3,000-4,000 plus. Yeah.
I have to give you some time because I have not really looked at it, but I can tell you a few markets in the north only we have launched, and very few markets in the east we have launched. Because we are now last r unning on.
Yeah. Yeah. Sir, last question to the Desikan sir . Employee costs and other expenses have grown by 23% and 26% in FY 2025. Revenue growth is 14%. There has been absolutely no operating leverage. There has been operating deleverage because of the accelerated investments, what you're doing on R&D and technology and all that. If you can just help us understand, how do you see the cadence in FY 2026? Will there be, because, and mind you, it's not only in FY 2025.
That has been the case for the last three, four years now, that there has been no operating leverage. Everything, the margin execution has happened from portfolio level and gross margin improvement and the kind of success we have found with the products. Can we expect FY 2026, we will see some operating leverage coming back to the business because of all the investments which are already done?
I know you want the Desikan to answer, but if you can answer Desikan which you have commissioned, I want to answer him. The most important thing, according to me, overall as a company, our EBITDA has been doing extremely well. I'm very sure.
Yes, sir.
Okay. Please understand, I highlighted that we are investing in the right areas of software, digital, and analytics because these are the areas which are likely to become bigger and bigger going forward. We have strengthened our R&D and new product development significantly higher. All this costs money. I'm very sure these are all investments for growing the top line ahead of the industry going forward. Now, I don't want to give any prognosis for the next year because we are not a company. We will look at investing in the right areas, whether it is employees.
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Pramod Kumar, I request you to kindly mute your line. There is a lot of disturbance.
That's not my line. That's for sure. I'm in Zoom alone. There's no one here. Sorry.
There's an activity.
I muted, but.
Yeah. Sure.
Okay. Now, I'll leave you to. Sorry, my line was muted, by the way. So just.
I think there is some problem with Desikan's line . There is some challenge with the Desikan's line . I think not a problem, sir. You can let Desikan Sir answer this question, and I'll drop out of the queue just in case if he has. I will look forward to the response on that. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you.
Desikan, you can answer. I think there is some problem with this line. He's trying to answer, but he's not able to. We are not able to hear that.
No problem, sir. He can answer in the course of the call. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you. Participants are requested to kindly restrict your questions to one per participant. We have the next question from line of Gunjan from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Just a quick clarification on your prior comments. Earlier, you gave the EV revenues for the quarter and the year fiscal 2025. Also, you mentioned somewhere that financing probably has tightened a bit. If you can sort of share, what does it mean for our portfolio? Have we seen some change in, or how much is the portfolio which is financed in quarter four? Has there been any letdown on that?
See, I said during the Diwali season, this is the first year rural came back in a big way. Overall, what has happened is a little bit of good financing has happened. Whenever there is good financing, sometimes what happens is you have to look at the collection efficiency, and many of the retail financing companies look at that. However, in the case of EVs, we have been always prudent. For example, whether it is our GNPA or NNPA, they are extremely good because we are always prudent in terms of looking at what is the right financing, and we look at the quality customers. That way, EV credit has done extremely well.
Sir, the EV revenues, if you can share your thoughts on that.
I'll tell you something. Just give me a minute. EV revenues for the year is about INR 3,364 crore. This is for the year, okay?
The quarter?
Just go for the quarter. Quarter is about INR 889 crore.
Okay. Sir, just a second question I have is on a lot of items that you've mentioned in terms of dividend income from subsidy, mark-to-market. Can you give us a little bit color on where this dividend income is from? Where are we seeing these fair valuation losses? Again, the investments that we've made in this quarter, around INR 600 crore, where has that gone? Some color on all the footnotes regarding the subsidies.
There are too many questions in this one question, so let me try to recollect one by one and try to answer you. Other income, we had dividend income from SACL, and we had a notional loss on the previous investments made in supply chain. These are the predominant ones. Your next question was on the investments during this quarter. Correct?
Yeah. Yeah.
Just give me a minute. Investments are primarily, as we highlighted earlier, one is Norton. Then small investments in some of the investments related to more so TVS, digital. I think these are the most important ones.
You said INR 2,000 crore odd. Is that going to be the basis investments in fiscal 2026 as well, or any change there?
For this financial year also, please understand, like I said, Norton will continue because Norton products will be available end of this financial year. We are looking at products getting ready to launch into the market, so that investments will continue. Some investments in the TVS Credit will be there this year also because it is doing extremely well. There will be some investments related to the SEMG, that is the electric cycles. These are the broad investments we are looking at this year. The number will be around this year, whatever we have done this year.
Okay. Got it. Thank you, sir. I'll join back. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants are requested to kindly restrict your questions to one per participant. We have the next question from line of Vipul from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. This is about the CNG scooters. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. Getting light top at incremental weight is a challenge, what we are seeing in the CNG two-wheelers. Typically, motorcycles are used to carry more weight than scooters. Will it be fair to assume that CNG tech is more suitable for scooters than motorcycles?
I can't say like that because we have to look at the customer usage again. Customer usage. Because customers are agnostic about the technology, CNG is a good technology. We have to look at it in totality, how the customer preferences are moving. Sometimes you have to also a little bit time it. I don't want to come and conclude which is better, but you would have seen our scooter with CNG. At appropriate time, we will look at it and see whenever the market is ready, we will be ready for because we have the capability in terms of product technology and delivery capability and excellent network.
Sir, I'm trying to understand. For example, in rural India, we typically see two to three people sit on a motorcycle. The weight becomes almost 200 kg or 220 kg per vehicle. I think over there, the incremental top to carry that weight reduces significantly in a CNG motorcycle rather than a petrol motorcycle. Typically, in a scooter, normally one or two people will sit at max. I'm trying to understand if CNG is a case more for one or two persons driving the vehicle, or can it carry three people weight as well, which is typical requirement of a rural market?
The rural has been, in my opinion, the usage I've seen even in scooters, three people and four people sitting. That is unique to our country because they use it. What is most important, my understanding is that motorcycles generally people use more kilometers per day. We have seen motorcycles average usage maybe about 40 kilometers. Whereas in a scooter, it is about 20-25. In rural, when you go through that again, the usage cycles are a little different. Usage difference irrespective of the fuel, I think we have to closely look at it. I think there may be many factors. One is the usage. Another one is number of CNG today, how many real outlets are there, how much time people have to stand in the queue to get the CNG. Customers are very sensitive.
Practically, I would say that if somebody has to wait for a little longer time, they don't have the patience because always time is very, very important for people. We have to look at it in totality. According to me, CNG is a very good option. When and how and which models and what we need to look at it, I think this is a very important work which we are studying very closely.
Thanks. Just one more question if I can take on exports. You touched upon Africa in your initial comments. Your export just to a couple of countries, like your exposure to Kenya, Tanzania, and Congo was relatively higher in your portfolio. If you can talk a bit about economic growth drivers in those countries and what are the key models being sold over there, like mid-size, mid-variants, or the small, sorry, cheap variants being sold over there?
It is just primarily HLX series. HLX series, HLX 110 is there, 125 is there. Now we have put the 150 also. I think these are all taxi markets. Of course, these markets we have also started selling some of the products from Indonesia. The response has been pretty good. These markets are doing very well. The entire markets, whatever you have highlighted. The infrastructure development is also happening. The most important thing is some taxi, at some point of time, you will start commuting customers to come in. This is used to be very attractive.
Actually, I was asking more of an economic growth driver for these. For Nigeria, it's screwed. Are any different economic drivers, growth drivers for these countries, or how does it work?
See, country by country, there are certain common economic drivers. There are different economic drivers. We have a very strong team which drives country by country what are the economic drivers. If you ask me straight away, I will not be able to share with you because it will take more time to share with you. Country by country, there are economic factors. We have to closely look at it. There are factors which also influence the local inflation. There are factors also decide on the currency, currency fluctuation, currency rate. Because all these factors are very, very critical from the customer point of view on the road price. There is also another factor because in these markets, the financing. Who is able to give the financing? Who is not able to give the financing? There are organized. There are dealer-driven. Multiple factors are there.
Your distributor strength and your dealer strength, network strength. Another important point is, please understand, in a taxi market, service is very, very important because they do not want any unproductive hours. If somebody is able to do extremely good service, there are markets where the two-wheelers run for almost 200 km a day. Multiple factors are there.
Understood. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. We have the next question line of Sonal Gupta from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Just on the, I mean, just going back to CapEx and investment in subsidiaries. We have seen a big jump in CapEx. I am just talking standalone numbers. INR 1,800 crores of CapEx versus, say, roughly INR 1,100 crores last year. Could you sort of give us some more detail into where is this investment spend going? Is there some capacity expansion as well? I mean, how do you expect this for next year?
See, the CapEx is all, most of the CapEx, I would say, is all related to new products and technology related. There are, of course, for example, Jupiter 110, there are investments related to capacity also. Because this product originally, we looked at 50,000. Now we are doing almost 65,000 because these are. The market push is there. That is the time we have to look at in terms of investing behind the manufacturing capacity, supply capacity. Second, please remember, this also includes all the two-wheeler and three-wheeler EVs. These are definitely going to help the company in the future. It is new product development, technology, and some areas for capacity increase. INR 4.7 million we have done last year. We are expecting much better growth this year than the industry. Some are related to existing products doing better. Some are related to new product launches.
Right. Because in the past, we have said that we will look to internalize or localize, I mean, internalize some of the EV components. Is there a lot of investment related to that in this number?
No, we look at, like I said last time, there are many things we make it in-house. And we also buy. It is a make-and-buy strategy we look at. Primarily because of the technology capability, we want to also make and certain areas, for example, the three-wheeler EV, what we have launched, the motor is from our company. It is designed, developed, and inside manufactured. It is a very prudent strategy of make-and-buy.
Right. Because, I mean, the way to look at it, if I look at combined, right, because a lot of our investments which is going into subsidiaries is also, I mean, other than Norton is really TVS Credit, is really, again, technology for the company itself on an overall basis. I mean, last year, we roughly spent about INR 2,450 crore if I include subsidiary investments. That is including whatever is put into TVS Credit and Norton. That number has gone to almost INR 4,000 crore this year. There is a substantial jump. I am just trying to understand, right, the pace at which we are investing and how we, I mean, it seems a very large number. Could you sort of highlight how much is TVS Credit this year?
Yeah. Let us go one by one. We have seen TVS Credit numbers. Predominant investments are gone behind TVS Credit. The book size is almost INR 27,000 crore now. It is extremely profitable also. There is huge room for growing that business. This is number one. Number two, Norton, I told you, whatever investments we have invested, all behind the products. Products are likely to be seen in the market in Q4 of this year. That is financial year 2026 this year. There are investments related to a lot of technology, new technology, including digital. Even though we are focusing mainly on the EV side, it is going to be very useful for some of the products in the IT sector. These technologies, these capabilities, we are investing behind for the total two-wheeler, three-wheeler business.
Like I said last time, we have also started and entered in the Italy market. There's a huge opportunity to look at many of the European markets. The company is looking at investment behind products for all the developing markets, including now we started looking at the developed markets. A combination of new products, technology, and certain technologies in digital and analytics, which are going to be across all products for all regions.
Okay. No, basically, where I'm coming from is that your EBITDA is effectively, if I take the fact that tax payment as well, right, you're not generating any free cash flow. I mean, after your investments in subsidiaries and CapEx. That's where I'm coming from. Anyway, I will take it more offline. Thank you, sir.
See, this company, we invested in TVS Credit. We invested in Indonesia. We invested in many of the new technologies, including EV and Jupiter in three-wheelers. Because we invested, we have seen the kind of revenues, whatever we have seen. Because of that, overall, EBITDA has grown from 6% about a few years back. Now we are at 12.5% this quarter. The objective is to look at investing in the right technologies, right areas, right new products, grow the top line ahead of the industry. Free cash flow will automatically come. If you grow your top line and invest in the right technology, please understand, each of the technologies requires really one or two years or sometimes even three years to fructify into top line.
Sure, sir. No, no. That point is well taken. If you could just later on clarify how much has gone into TVS Credit and Norton, that would be helpful.
TVS Credit is a significant investment that has been behind TVS Credit. It is doing extremely well.
Okay.
Norton average invest, which I always tell you, about INR 500 crore.
That is an annual number, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Great, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of A. Pirani from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the motorcycles. This year, we've seen some moderation in the growth of the Raider. We had a refresh. Any plans of any product in the 125 cc or any plans on the Raider or any other launch that we should look forward to for motorcycles as a whole?
See, Raider has done extremely well overall if you look at it from the day it was launched. I'm pretty confident this is going to be an all-India market. Not only all-India market. It's going to be a product for the local market. Sometimes you have to wait a little bit of give to the patience because when we started Apache, for example, it took some time. Apache is a great brand now. Same with Raider. I'm pretty confident that this year, we will see a significant growth in Raider. When we started Jupiter 110, it was slow, steady. Now Jupiter 110 plus 125 is doing extremely well. Many times, you have to be a little bit cautious, and you have to be investing behind the consistent products as well as brand. It's a prudent decision we have to look at.
I'm pretty confident that the customers who buy Raider are extremely happy in the 125 cc. The good news is, while the overall motorcycles, if I look at the economy, is not so great, the economy has been not growing. Because of many reasons, we know that. Because buying power in that category at the entry level is a little difficult. It's not fully gone. The executive commuter category is the category which is growing very well. Radeon in that category in the last couple of years, what position it has taken is excellent. I'm pretty confident that we will see a significant growth this year. Of course, we have done certain upgrades, certain technology products, also we have launched this quarter. All are having very good pull in the market.
Understood, sir. Just on the investments, one clarification. This quarter also, I think there is some investment in TVS Supply Chain Solutions. I mean, we understand the investment in the subsidiaries and all those things. In TVS Supply Chain Solutions, just want to understand the rationale for this investment because we've already had some investments, and I think we are doing further investment in that as well.
I look at it in totality. Investment, what is most importantly, we look at it in totality. Then we go behind certain investments which are for medium term, short term, long term.
Okay. I am getting that supply chain is more of a financial investment, right? Because, I mean, unlike your other subsidiaries, you only have a small stake.
Yes.
Understood. Thank you. I'll come back in a bit.
Thank you. We have the next question from line of Kumar Rakesh from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening. Thank you for taking my question. My question was around TVS Credit. While you spoke about the PBT growth and the general trend, can you speak about the credit quality, how that has moved sequentially in terms of NPA, GNPA credit quality? Any of that you can share on that?
GNPA this quarter is around year after hold is about 2.9%. Quarter after quarter, even the March quarter is excellent, actually 2.8%. Desikan, are you there in the line? Are you able to connect with the line, Desikan?
Yeah, I'm there, but not able to hear clearly. I mean, are we audible now?
Are you able to hear, Desikan?
I'm able to hear. Faintly, yes.
They are able to hear. You can continue, Desikan. We'll increase the volume a little bit.
Hello. We have very likely said the performance of the book is improving. The quality of the book is improving. That's the reason, one of the reasons why otherwise we could have even grown INR 30,000 crore. We were very cautious in the lending, the disburses. And the GNPA as I very likely said is 2.9%. The quality of the book is very good today. The collections are that our collection cost has gone up because we wanted to collect everybody. Therefore, the collections were quite healthy around close to INR 7,000 crore. We had collected in Q4 against a comparable quarter of around INR 5,700 crore. This is what it is. What we are always looking at TVS Credit Services is quality growth. Quality, profitability growth, let me put it that way.
Okay. Thanks for that. On the subsidiary losses, what grew in this quarter and how do you see that panning out in FY 2026? Now that you spoke about that, Norton should have a product by the end of this year. How would you be expecting the subsidiaries as a whole to perform in FY 2026? Thanks.
It will be better, definitely. Because Norton is all about products. When we bought Norton, nothing was there practically. It was only the brand which we bought. It took time to invest and create these products. We are really looking forward to this Q4, this financial year. I'm pretty confident these products will do well. Second, this year, the ACMG, there are many initiatives we have taken. Unfortunately, the European markets are going through very, very tough times. Sometimes you have to be patient. What is most important is we have taken many actions in the e-business, e-cycle business, which is helping us. I'm more positive about e-business this year. Other investment, TVS Credit, you have already seen. These are predominant businesses. All the remaining investments are behind technologies, which are used for our two-wheeler EV, two-wheeler ICE, and three-wheeler.
This year, definitely, you will start seeing the returns coming in. Maybe it may take one or two more years to see really good benefits coming in.
Okay. Just a clarification. We have not taken any write-off in any of the European investments that we have made or do not see that to be happening in this year, right?
Desikan?
No, no. We have not provided fraud. We have no need to provide fraud. Again, you spoke about losses in the subsidiaries. Norton is an investment. What is happening there is only the development-related expenditure being incurred there. Therefore, there is no reason for any impairment provisions required. We are confident about all our investments.
Great. Thanks a lot.
Okay. Thank you. Can we take the last question, please?
Sure, sir. We have the question for next from the line, Mr. Pramod Amthe from InCred Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. The first question is with regard to the industry subsegment. Considering that you are the largest listed player in this quarter, can you give some clarity in terms of what's a rural versus urban mix now, how it has grown in last year, especially considering that rural has come back, but scooters have outperformed drastically versus typically motorcycles are understood to be more a rural product?
See, rural did well last year, Q2 and Q3. Q4 did have a blip in rural. Even this month, when I look at it, rural is a little bit lower than urban. That is, unfortunately, we have Vahan, so you can give a very quantitative measure. All of you can see that also. However, I am of the view that May and June, we have to closely look at it. The number of marriage days are more this year. Monsoon expectations are normal. These are positive sentiments. Agriculture is doing well. I am of the view that this year, you will see rural holding up. We saw Q2 and Q3 last year, rural coming back in a big way. I am expecting rural should respond more positively. Retail finance will definitely come back, definitely in this quarter and next quarter.
This year, as you know, the predominant season is in September and October. It is between Puja and Diwali, which is September and October. According to me, rural should start improving going forward. Because last year, we saw only two quarters and then a little bit subdued. It should come back. This is on the rural and urban side.
What's the scooter mix for rural and urban for the industry?
Rural, I don't have an exact number because Vahan doesn't give that. If I make a judgment, that may not be fair. Urban is more on the scooter, definitely. Rural is picking up. Rural is definitely picking up.
Okay. Second one is with regard to PLI. When you look at your localization, that was the entire initiative to incentivize the localization through PLI. In your journey, where are you in terms of localization for EVs as a proportion of import versus the local produced as a percentage of value? What is your target for next year and later on? What are the products or subsegments or DV parts which you are looking at to drive this localization?
See, localization has been the strength of our company because we have worked on always DVA more than 50%. We will continue to work on this because this is something. You know that sell at this point of time is important. There are sales which are going to be made in India. We are also partnering with some of them. It is going to be a journey. The entire EV is going to be a journey. We are very positive that the volumes will grow. We are doing the right make-and-buy decision. That's why I use the word make-and-buy, make-and-buy decision. It is a continuous journey.
Sure. Thanks a lot .
Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone, for joining. If I can summarize, we are extremely happy that we posted the highest ever revenue of INR 36,251 crore and a PBT of INR 3,629 crore in the financial year we just closed. With our unwavering focus on consumer quality and customer delight, we are confident of continuing to go ahead as an industry. Like I said, we will continue to invest in people and technology to develop more new products, develop the right technologies for not only India, developing markets, and developed markets. With the kind of product range we have, starting from the brands like Apache, Jupiter, iQube, Radeon, Ntorq, HLX, Radeon, TVS Ronin, TVS King, and the recently launched TVS King EV Max, we will grow faster than the industry, both in domestic and international market.
We will become a prominent player in the EV three-wheeler in India. As you are aware, we are extremely happy that the EBITDA margin has been consistently growing the last five years. We are confident that as we delight our customers, grow the top line ahead of the industry with leveraging the overall growth, scale benefits, better product mix, and sustained cost reduction initiatives will continuously improve the profitability going forward. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your continued trust on the company. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of TVS Motor Company, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.