.. Listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Gupta and Mr. Jorn Kersten from United Breweries. Thank you and over to you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining this call. We're very happy to discuss the developments of Quarter 3 of the financial year 24-25. I will give some of the highlights on the quarter, before handing over to Vivek for some comments, and then, of course, we will open up for Q&A as well. So looking at Q3, we see continued strong fundamentals, while we're also investing for the future.
In our volume growth, we accelerated in Q3, and we're very happy with the 8% overall volume growth, driven by a broad-based growth across the entire footprint in India and positively impacted by recent policy changes in states like Andhra Pradesh. We gained share at an overall basis, but also in the premium segment, continuing the growth trajectory from the previous quarters.
Premium volumes on the base of that grew 33%, where we saw the strongest growth coming from our Ultra portfolio, both Kingfisher Ultra and Kingfisher Ultra Max, and we recently launched Amstel Grande, and we're happy by the early but still very promising consumer response and growing momentum in the market.
Overall, volume growth was predominantly coming from Telangana, Uttar Pradesh, and Rajasthan, and partially offset by Tamil Nadu and West Bengal. If we look from volume to net sales, net sales increased by 10% on the quarter, as well as in year to date, driven by price increase across multiple states, but also a mix from premiumization, which is partially offset by growth of the economy segment and a negative state mix in terms of volume growth.
On the EBIT side, we delivered an EBIT of INR 90 crores, which is significantly lower than last year, so a contraction on the like for like, but we have continued investment in the organization as well as into our supply chain, making sure that we are ready for the peak season, and Vivek will also be able to shed some light on that later in this call.
As part of the ongoing efforts we put into enhancing our operations, as well as drive growth, we've implemented a productivity program in Q3. This program and the latest change initiatives are there to improve our efficiency but also productivity and competitiveness in the market, to which we've incurred a one-time exceptional cost of INR 26 crores in Q3, but the overarching goal is to deliver annual growth savings that we estimate to be around INR 50 crores annually, kicking in in 2025.
In addition to unlock growth opportunities, we're very happy to announce a major investment in the state of Uttar Pradesh, for a greenfield brewery, which has been approved as well here. Vivek will shed some further light. Now, before I hand over, I do also want to mention from a portfolio perspective that we're very excited to announce the launch of Kingfisher Flavours, which targets a younger, more experimental consumer, who's seeking a sweeter and less bitter taste in the beer options.
We introduced two flavors, Lemon Masala and Mango Berry Twist, and the brand draws inspiration from popular Indian street food flavors. Currently, we launched in Mumbai, Goa, and Daman, and Kingfisher Flavours will gradually expand to other regions as well in the months to come.
Our key areas will remain, as they have been over the last quarters, really looking at category growth and winning in all segments, making sure that we leverage and increase the importance of our supply chain network, the quality of our beer, and really brew a winning culture through investments behind the organization, as well as continue to look at profitability and capital efficiency in the choices that we make to sustain long-term growth in the India beer market. This continues to be the pillars of our strategy as we work towards the growth path across all of India. We're happy to take some questions, but first, let me hand over to Vivek for some comments from his side.
Yeah. Thanks, Jorn, and good afternoon, everyone. I know Jorn talked about our continued strong momentum and actually building on the momentum with growing the full shares, but I wanted to talk three things before we get open for Q&A, and I know these will be on top of your mind as well. The first, I want to talk about the investment in Uttar Pradesh. I'm very, very happy to announce that, you know, after almost 12 years, United Breweries is actually investing in a greenfield brewery. So while we have been a company of, we have so many breweries there, but it is a very important moment for the company to do that.
One of the work we did, last year, around six months back, we put a business development team, who are exploring that to meet our future capacity requirements as we want to be the category maker. Where are the opportunities of growth, and where can we do that? Currently, we actually do business in UP, through a contract manufacturer, Wave, so we actually buy it from them.
And based on the category growth and positive policies where the stores are going to double up our beer, we wanted to make sure our premium brands and we have a long-term supply there. So we actually worked the design, and I'm very glad to share that the Global Board of Heineken as well as the has approved it. We are in advanced stage of conversation with the government. We have even identified the land, and this will be probably one of the world-class breweries at an optimum cost because as we have designed the brewery, we have also don't want to create a palace.
We actually want to make sure we use the local technology, local machinery wherever possible, that we have the right standards, and we will have our premium brands as well as Kingfisher to be produced there. So, and the capacity of brewery is going to be modular. We, you know, we are looking at anywhere between a million to 3 million, depending on, yeah, because the brewery is set up for many, many years. So very excited to talk about that, and this will not be the only investment we will be doing.
We will also be, we are also in talks with other state governments, on various models of how do we expand our capacities and be ready, be future-ready. The second important thing, you know, I also want to talk, you know, I'm, I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot of concerns on why the profit is down, what has happened structurally, and I'm sure we'll address some of them, not to all your satisfaction, but I want to tell you that one of the critical choices we made was to really prepare ourselves for 2025 summer season.
The reason I would say that is because if you remember in 2024, when I came to your, we mentioned the impact of elections and why elections had more impact on us. So elections really slowed down our growth rate in certain states during the April-May-June quarter. We are expecting summers, and we are expecting, you know, a higher growth rate. To prepare ourselves for the growth rate, we wanted to make sure we are setting our breweries for success.
We did a lot of investment in repair and maintenance of our breweries. To give you an example, in Andhra Pradesh, we had a brewery. For the last four or five years, it was operating at 130% capacity. Now, suddenly, if we want to utilize the full capacity, we realized that since we are not invested in maintenance and repair, our boilers were giving up after, you know, 50% capacity increase, and their filters were giving up. We actually started having some quality issues.
We actually took a step back and actually made a significant investment in making sure the breweries are ready. So in fact, I'm very happy to say that from this month itself, you know, the same Andhra Pradesh brewery will give us two and a half X versus, you know, we were getting 1.5 to 1.7 X from Andhra. Similarly, we did that in many other breweries to make sure we are future-ready.
We also invested in warehouses so that in the places where we have shelf life of our beer as nine months, we actually can bring the stocks forward to do the production in the non-season. So we are ready to fill up the market when the summer starts, and we are lucky that, you know, it's already getting hotter in many places. So and usually March is the time when the inventories start to build up, but it is starting building up now also. So we made investment in the peak season. We also made investment in the organization, you know, and our fixed cost is high because trade marketing, corporate affairs, all of these are investments where you have to work on long term.
At the same time, we also worked on a productivity plan, which the impact you will see this year because, you know, most of the people who left us were there till December to bring together, but we didn't let them do that, so the other thing I wanted to say is we have actually invested, and we feel pretty good about, you know, our preparation for the season, given the constraints we had on the capacities and how to maximize it.
The third topic I wanted to address was the Telangana. I know this was a big, big topic of discussion. Look, I would say, extremely proud of the organization and proud of, you know, to do the right things. You know, we hate, we are there to serve consumers.
We absolutely want to make sure that consumers are served with the full capacity. But at the same time, you know, the viability of the business, because the pricing was getting delayed, we ended up sending the hike, so we were left with no option after multiple negotiations to be very reasonable and say, "Look, we will not be able to supply to the corporation because, you know, there's a limit to that." I would say that we had very constructive conversations with the bureaucracy as well as the government, you know, some of us were personally there for many days. And I think, I'm happy that they have shown some progress.
I think a 15% price increase does make our red P&L there too, our P&L, and we are not fully out of the red, but it is definitely it helps, you know, gross margins. It also helps the EBIT. Unfortunately, all of this price increase has gone to consumers. I think I would have, we had recommended, and I would have loved if they would have done some tax restructuring so that the consumer impact is minimum, but the consumer impact is going to be quite high, though it's still in line with the neighboring states, the consumer MRP, but we have to see ₹30 and ₹40 how much that impacts in Telangana.
We still have outstanding in Telangana, but we have started getting regular payments from September, like everyone in the industry, and we also got a couple of payments which have reduced our outstanding balance to that, and we have got an assurance or a plan that over the next few months we will get back our outstanding.
The reason I said we are proud is because even after this, we are in talking terms with the government and the bureaucracy. We are discussing with them. I've told them the impact that, look, we're very thankful for the progress, but the impact is still, we are still not out of red. At the same time, the consumer impact is very, very big, and let's monitor it so that, you know, the category doesn't back in one of the most important places to do that.
So that's about Telangana, but it again should give you the confidence that we structurally want to improve our profitability of this business. We structurally want to build the category, and as a UBL, we will go state by state, state by state, where we have structural profitability issues for the category, we will elevate that, and we will continue to work with the government and through the association so that we can have a better investment climate in those states. So with this, I hand over back to the moderator for any Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Please limit your questions to two at a time per participant. You may join back the queue for further questions. We'll take a first question from the line of Jay Doshi from Kotak. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi Vivek. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on good progress on both volumes and premium portfolio. I've got three questions. First is, you know, just checking if I heard you correctly. So even after a 15% price increase, your Telangana operations would still be a bit negative?
Yes.
Wow. So then what is the, you know, way forward in terms of, because Telangana is a state that is known for not giving price increases for three years, four years, five years. So then why would you want to sort of, you know, continue operations if you don't have any commitment or if there is no, visibility on, you know, further increments, to make the business at least, you know, some minimal profitability?
And partly because, you know, again, I agree with you on restructuring the kind of price tax increases that they're, if they're not changing the taxes, then even if you, they give you another 10%-15% price increase, then it will, there will be a lot of headwinds from demand perspective. So basically, the problem for this state sort of doesn't get addressed with this.
Yeah. No, I think let me address your first question because I think, look, I think, I would say that at an operating level, at a local state level, we are just slightly okay. Okay. If I not put the overhead cost, because your question was at an EBIT level, if I don't put the head office under the other overhead cost, I'm okay, right? And on certain SKUs, I'm okay. So if I dive some mix, I can do that. Having said that, as I said that, you know, without revealing much, you know, our discussions have been wide open, and they know that, you know, and we have to be a little bit more pragmatic also here because all the complex issues will not get solved in one go.
From where we are coming off five years of no pricing and having a massive hole to having a little hole now, which can be worked at a local level for some time, but I think we would be expecting a phase two, you know, in, in very, very near foreseeable future, because we have, we have been telling government that, look, with this pricing, it is not an investment grade.
You know, we can make some cost savings to, to at least, avoid our operating losses. But at the same time, we are also working very, very closely, to also show the impact for the consumer pricing and what are the other options to do that. So it, it is like, you know, you have to work consistently on this. This is not a one go where we ask something, we'll got it, but I think it's a significant progress from where it has come now. So that is what I would say.
This is the first step, and you're hopeful that there'll be some more relief on this front.
Absolutely, because we will be, we'll be consistently engaging with them, you know, and I would say it will definitely won't take two years to get the another one, or five years to get there. So it will be a consistent one. And I think, if you ask me, the government or the officials will also agree to that, not of giving pricing, but they are, yes, they have more work to be done on this.
Sure. Second question is, you know, there's an excise duty increase in Karnataka and more importantly at the economy end. And then, there was a media article that indicated that, you know, United Breweries has commented that they'll absorb a part of excise duty.
First of all, is that, you know, accurate? And if not, could you give us some color on what is your exposure to the popular end or economy portfolio in Karnataka and what is the premium portfolio? I know you will benefit relatively, but on an absolute basis, this may still be a headwind. So if you could share some color on, you know, how big is Karnataka for you? How big is your popular portfolio? How big is the premium portfolio? And are you going to absorb any of the excise duty increase, or are you going to pass it on?
Yeah. No, absolutely. I think first of all, it's very unfortunate what is happening in Karnataka for the industry. I think, you know, it's not only Karnataka, in many other states, like what we saw, the beer is becoming less affordable for consumers. So it means the market leader or the category maker like us will have to work much harder. So, in economy segment, it is 25% of our business today.
So our volumes, like brands like Bullet and UB, are 25% of our volume to do that. So we have passed on the duty increase to consumer in those brands. However, we have made a strategic call that Kingfisher brand, on the mainstream and Ultra, which is Kingfisher and the , we are not passing on the duty to consumer, and we are absorbing the price increase. Why have we done this? I think three reasons.
First of all, as I said, as a category leader, we really need to make sure that the category growth is there, and we believe that in the past, when the economy segment was there, when the lower price point came in the market, Kingfisher was the biggest donor, and it happens, right? The biggest brand becomes the biggest donor in the economy. Yes, we had 35 shares, but on mainstream, I have 60 shares. So this is a bet we are taking, which means that, you know, the trade-off should happen to Kingfisher, and because the delta between the economy brand and the Kingfisher is much lower now. So think about a INR 35-INR 40 delta versus a INR 80 delta.
This is a business call we have taken to make sure that we offer the we do the value reframing and offer a you know the legendary beer at the same price when all consumers are thinking the beer is becoming very expensive. I can tell you the early read is very positive. Too early to say, but at least what we are seeing in the stores, what is there you know there is a momentum on this, and we have made a call on that. How will this whole react and pan out? We don't know. We have assumed a category contraction at the economy end, and we think many of these consumers will go to low-end spirits, and we just need to monitor it and then continue work with the government.
But we do think that if we get our plans right, we should be able to accelerate premiumization with the launch of Heineken Silver last year here with our continuous momentum on Ultra, Ultra Max, in future launch of Amstel Grande. And at the same time, we should be able to grow back our shares on Kingfisher and get at least consumer a better experience.
Sure. Could you tell us what is the volume salience between economy where you're going to pass on the price increases and the segment, that is Kingfisher, Kingfisher Ultra, where you are absorbing the excise duty? And are you absorbing entire excise duty, or is it partial increase?
See, first of all, the duty increase on the economy is much higher than the mainstream segment. So just to give you an idea, in economy, we could not price anything below INR 145, you know, and our price was INR 120. So just to give you an idea, because the way the duty is structured at the economy, it's a much bigger increase, but at a mainstream, it is a much smaller increase, you know, but it's still an increase.
INR 120 a bottle, right?
That's what I would say that.
Lastly, is it possible to give us an update on where your bottle recovery rates are today and any roadmap, any, you know, what are your plans, as you get into the peak season? How do you expect it to sort of, you know, improve versus what it was maybe last year?
Yeah. You know, I'm actually happy to report that all the efforts we are putting this quarter, we had actually 5% improvement versus the last year. So it is, it is improving with our bottle network, but at the same time, since the volumes are growing, we are also putting more new bottles in the system. And especially for the premium launches, we are putting the bottles in the system. But the good part is all the operational measures we have put together, they are going in the right direction.
And last quarter was actually 5% above the previous quarter. We have to do more, much more work. Like for example, Andhra Pradesh is one state where our bottle return is very low in the past. So we are working on a new model of having more distributors and scale distributors of bottle collectors, so that we can actually improve that significantly. Similarly, you know, the places where there were floods, like Kerala and all, we are also working on a plan for a better recovery, but it's in the right direction now.
But will it be close to 70% in FY26? You think you'll get close to that number or still not too early to say?
It is too early to say. Our goal is to get there, but also, you know, we have, this is why we are working with the state governments to say, have more permit rooms. Because if the permit rooms are not there, then it becomes very difficult, very messy.
So what we are learning is where there are permit rooms, the consumer can actually sit and drink, the bottle collection then is much better when consumers just take it from the store and goes there. So actually, we are working with a lot of state governments to show the data and to see how if they can follow Maharashtra kind of model, it could really help in bottle returns and cost of doing business also, apart from sustainability.
Sure. Thank you so much. Thanks.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Latika Chopra from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity.
Lathika, can you use your handset mode, please? Your audio is not clear.
Is it better now?
Yeah.
I'm using my handset only.
Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My first question, you know, was on gross margins. There are a lot of moving parts here. You know, the mix is improving, which is good. The state mix which is tough to call, but with the developments in Telangana looks like it's moving in the right direction.
And then, you know, the kind of CapEx you're putting up to scale up lager capacity. So how, where do you think, you know, gross margins could look like, you know, through a downside in some of your productivity programs and, you know, capacity and whatever tax changes that you've seen in, you know, recent months in, you know, in certain states? Can we, can we really aim for, say, you know, a high 14% gross margins in this business? Thank you.
Jorn, you want to answer?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll answer this one. Look, this is something that we continuously look at, and also in previous calls we mentioned that we're in this for the long run. So if we look at the mixed development and the salience of premium, and there we have a lot to gain in terms of premiumization, which will first and foremost improve our revenue mix. But then, as Vivek mentioned earlier on the call, it'll require a lot of infusion of new bottles to grow SKUs that are not available to that extent or not sold to that extent in all states yet. So in the short term, the premiumization mix will do a lot for our revenue and for our market share, but not necessarily immediately for margins.
But as we go along, this will get better, and same goes for the translation of the investments that we're doing in our breweries, means that we have premium capabilities available in many more places, coming season than we had last year, and that obviously also impacts the margins as we are closer to the consumer. So these things long term will help us to further develop the gross profit margin.
The state mix, that's something that obviously is partly in our hands. We try to grow volume across states where we keep an eye on where we make the strategic choices i think Karnataka, that we were just coming upon, is also an example of that, where we don't only think that Karnataka is the home of Kingfisher, and therefore it's a consumer-centric choice to absorb on Kingfisher duties, but it's also in our state mix, one where we really want to drive volume. So that's something that's developing. Obviously, things that happen such as in Telangana, despite the fact that we are not where we want to be yet, that will definitely help our margin delivery in the short term.
Sure, so where do you think that probably gross margins will improve, but you know, it could be a more gradual progression, right?
Yes. And that's also how we look at it. We want to build a sustainable, profitable business, and we take small steps where we can, but we also want to keep our focus on the share development and the volume growth to really make the category.
Sure. And the second one was on volume growth. Volume growth is, so clearly, you know, we think thanks to investing and with all the capabilities we found.
Okay. Can you hear me better now?
Yes. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So my question was on volume growth. You know, 8% is fairly impressive, and clearly, you know, there are a lot of trackability build-outs we've done, and, you know, the progression is very much visible. So are we now in a relatively more comfortable space to say that, you know, 6%-8% kind of volume growth is minimum for you when you're looking at the next year, next fiscal year?
I think overall we look at similar rates moving forward, and we think that's where the category will grow. Obviously, with all the efforts we've put in to shape the category and also look at beer as a drink of choice for consumers, we do obviously hope to push it forward, and also with the premium share gains that we've been showing for UB, it means that we're happy with the 8%.
We think that's for a quarter a really good delivery. We aim to be ahead of the market, of course, moving forward as well. But I don't think that necessarily, given the volatility of policies, etc., that we will see a huge acceleration in overall growth. Also, this is a long-term play, where we're sustainably building the category.
Understood. Thank you so much.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Abneesh Roy from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks. My first question is on the first greenfield project in 12 years. What is the main reason behind doing this? Is it more for production of the premium portfolio quality improvement, or is there a cost advantage? And second is, when do we start seeing the manufacturing of this? Because the project is yet to start, because you have identified the land, but obviously, approvals are pending. Will it be more of FY28 where we see the benefit of this?
Yeah. I have an initial answer to that. You know, it takes almost 24-30 months to set up the brewery to do that. So our goal is, we should have this set up by 2027, sometime in 2027. Of course, the team will work at that accelerated pace there, but the faster brewery set up, you know, it still takes, I'm told, 12-18 months to really do that.
Why are we doing it? Because, as Jorn said, we are in the long run in India. We expect the beer category to grow. We want to continuously be the category maker to really do that. We see in UP, which is the highest population state, with the urbanization happening, with the infrastructure development happening, our projections are that category growth rate will be strong. You know, we have assumed, you know, the similar 6%-8% in UP to really do that.
And as we look at that, then we will need more beer and more, more beer to be produced locally. The second thing is, you know, it's always, you know, it's always a trade-off, but based on the environment, the number of stores, the policy, excise policy, positivity of the government, access to raw material, because UP is one of these states where we also get barley and so on, to do that. The cans versus bottles, because UP is more cans versus bottles as well. So when we look at all of this, we think there is a Net Present Value, which is positive for us also.
Third is, I don't know if you know, UP government, last two years back, they introduced a franchisee fee, which is basically, if you don't produce it locally, you know, you actually end up paying more fee than that. So putting all of this together, of course, when everyone has approved it, there's a financial sense to this project. But we actually think this is also to produce a premium brand, produce Heineken beers, you know, produce a local Kingfisher, but it is to invest in future based on the category growth. Just to give you some data, in 2024, UBL volume grew almost 20% in UP.
Understood, so one follow-up question here, so you have done very well in UP last one year, this quarter, Q3 also. Is premium also doing well here? Because I do see almost 1:4 difference in terms of pan-India mass versus premium, 8% versus 33% growth, but is the premium growing largely in the big urban cities and UP is more of a mass market, so if you could tell us how is UP doing in terms of premium, and the stores getting doubled in UP, when is that fully happening? Has that already played out in terms of distribution?
No. The UP excise policy has only come last week. As per the policy, if you see in UP, earlier they were separate stores which were selling IMFL, and separate stores who were selling beer. What the new policy has said is composite stores. The beer stores will go up from almost 6,000 stores to 10,000-odd stores. The composite number is 10,000-11,000.
Both these stores will sell both IMFL and beer. The stores are doubling for the branded category. That's a very positive news because, you know, in that state, you need to have better beer accessibility, which is very, very important. This implementation will happen from April 1. The government is going through the e-auction and all process. The future is looking quite bright there.
In terms of the premium number, I don't have the category number, but our business on premium doubled in UP. Our Ultra brand is doing 157%, and, you know, Ultra Max is doing, and there's much more scope of premiumization as well. And that's what we see around in the other states also. When the supplies are available, the execution gets better. With urbanization, there is growth, a faster growth in the premium brands than what we see only in the urban centers.
Sure. That's helpful. One follow-up question to my first question is, Delhi is adjacent to UP market, and UP has done so well. Now, BJP end-to-end in Delhi in terms of the government, do you see at some stage, Delhi also seeing a lot of reform? And currently, how is Delhi market doing for you? Because for spirits, Delhi has been challenging last two years. For you, how has Delhi market been?
So it has been challenging for us as well. We are doing okay because, but we are very low in shares, because it's still a corporation market, and there are a lot of ordering system issues there and all. We look, I'm like you, like anyone else, we are hopeful that the governments do what they are supposed to do. So I won't comment more than that. You know, I had hope from previous government. I still have hope from this government as well, that they, they do something because, you know, the quality brands have to be available more consistently in the stores.
And I see a lot of potential in Delhi if the policy comes in. But I'm also, you know, pragmatic that it will not happen immediately. Even in Andhra, if you see it took six to nine months for policy to come in position. I'm pretty sure, you know, it will not be an immediate change that somebody sworn in, and then next day policy will change. I really hope things get better.
Sure. My second and last question is on the two brands you have put photos you have put in the PPT, Mango Berry and Lemon Masala. You spoke also that in terms of that in the opening remarks. If you could tell us, in terms of pricing and market opportunity, how big it is, and if you could talk about the margins here. I understand this is catering to a customer who is more new to the beer, more in terms of mild beer, etc., but how big is the market, and is this a premium product?
Look, this is premium to Kingfisher. We have just launched this in only a couple of markets of Goa and Daman. It will get expanded to Mumbai because we need some work on the breweries to produce the flavors. As you know, in India, there have been flavors, but the legendary brand has never done flavors.
And young consumers who are new recruiters in the category, they are looking for different flavors and varieties and do that. So this is, think of this as an experiment, as a pilot to start with, which has been well tested with the consumer, and well done with our R&D, along working with the global R&D to design it for a local sense.
We actually think doing it in the right manner on a very consumer focus because they were, there are some companies who launched many flavors. It became a hit, but then they struggled because they were, you know, that inventory was, you know, gathering dust on the shelves due to that. So, these are definitely, they definitely are at premium price, slightly premium price, better margins.
But they are also designed for young, Gen Z consumers who are new recruits coming in the on-trade, want to try different flavors of beer because the trend is towards cocktails and other things. So, we will learn through it, and then we will selectively expand them. These are two variants of Kingfisher, which we have launched, and we are very excited because this just shows the opportunity that we are not going to be the old Kingfisher brand. We are listening to the consumers, and we are making the interventions. Early response, I can tell you, is fantastic. If you ever go to Daman, you know, or in Goa, you know, you'll, you know, there's a lot of demand for it.
Understood. Thanks. That's all from my side. Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, would like to remind participants to ask a question. They may please press star and one on their phone. We'll take the next question from the line of Krishnan Sambamoorthy from Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Thanks, Vivek and Jorn. You indicated in the presentation that there's been market share gains for the quarter, both on an overall basis as well as in the premium segment. If you're growing at 8%, volumes for the quarter, what would, what do you reckon would have been the industry growth for the quarter?
Sorry, your question is, what is the category growth? Sorry, can you say?
Yeah. What is category volume growth for the quarter? Yes.
For the quarter, I think our volume growth is 8. Our estimate is category 7. So that's why we have grown overall market share. Based on whatever data we have, it is 7 for the quarter.
And yeah, can you also indicate the key states where you reckon you gained share significantly?
Look, I tell you, I can tell you where we lost share, and I can also tell you where we gained share. We lost share, sorry. We lost share. One second. We lost share in West Bengal, because if you see the beer has become very expensive in West Bengal after the duty increase. So we lost share in West Bengal because we took the pricing from to pass on the duties from INR 135 to INR 160. And there is an economy brand, our competitor kept at INR 140. So there was a loss of share to that brand. So West Bengal was one area where we lost share. We think we lost share in Rajasthan, again, you know, some of those concerns.
We lost share in Tamil Nadu, because Tamil Nadu is still the go-to market, the way, you know, the TASMAC needs to still do a better job of ordering. We have been raising this to the government that we believe there's a lot of out-of-stock of Kingfisher in Tamil Nadu because coordination from TASMAC and all in there. We have had a couple of meetings with them, but that seems to be an issue as well. Karnataka, I am not sure.
I think we gained share despite declining 5%. We gained share, which is an impact of category, which was already happening because of this whole rumor of excise duties being increased and all. Everywhere else, we gained share. We gained share in every other state. We gained share in Telangana, UP, Haryana, Maharashtra, you know, Assam, Arunachal, Meghalaya. You name these states, we gained share.
Would you be able to call out, how much was the contribution of Andhra in this 8%, volume growth? Was that fairly substantial for the quarter?
It is 1.5%-1.6%. So without Andhra, we would have been 6.5%-7% rounded off growth.
Okay. And a couple of questions for disruptions. Any material disruption in the current quarter because of the Delhi state elections? And similarly, in the previous, what was the period where supply was halted? Telangana?
Look, this quarter, you know, honestly, the January has not been good because of two big disruptions. One is in Karnataka. The Karnataka category is down 30%-35% because if you know Karnataka, because of the duty change, there was label approval for the beer, and they were trying to manage old inventory, Excise was managing, So for 15-20 days, it took, there was no stock in Karnataka y ou would have read also in the market, which only started off.
So there is an impact in Karnataka, Now we are filling some pipeline, but there is an impact in Karnataka. Second thing is, of course, our operations were closed in Telangana for a good 15 days. So that is something we are aware of. Third, there were pricing changes and policy changes in some of the other states like Odisha.
We got the price increase in Odisha, but there was a period of change to do that, so there were disruptions in Jharkhand also where we got the pricing, but there's a disruption because of excise policy change as well, so January had a lot of disruptions, one driven by us, and three driven by them with the big disruptions. We are off to a good start in February, and we will try to do that, but you know, let's see how much this impacts the quarter, but from an overall year perspective and long-term perspective, I think we are in a good shape.
Okay. And any material impact of Delhi elections on volumes in the state?
As I mentioned, the Delhi business is not too big. There's a lot of opportunity there. So not any, not much impact. We are fine right now.
Great. Thanks a lot, Vivek.
Yes. Thank you. We'll take a next question from the line of Jain from Barclays. Please go ahead. Ashutosh Jain, please go ahead with your question. Please check if your line is on mute?
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I was looking at the Heineken Group recent trend and happened to notice that in Brazil, digitization efforts of the RTM helped its margins now very close to the group level. So is, could you just give, you know, more update on similar efforts in India and, likelihood of similar impact on margins if it, if it could happen in this geography? Thank you.
Jorn, do you have any idea about what Javier is doing? I've not followed up on this digitization piece, but you want to take that?
Yeah. Yeah. I can tell you, I think, if you look at Brazil, it's hard to compare to India looking at where they are in terms of, for instance, digitization, but also in mix of their portfolio. So the Heineken brand, Brazil is actually the biggest market globally for the Heineken brand.
So also in their mixed development, as well as other parts of the market, play a big role in the margins. So I think in terms of absolute margins, it's hard to compare it. Obviously, overall digitization helps on two areas. I think one is the productivity piece, and the other piece is to be better in terms of using data on where are the opportunities and what does the consumer want. I think on both areas, there is definitely room for us to also develop.
I think that also comes with really building the category. But to be very honest, we are taking steps and we're developing and we're working with apps for our sales team that are locally developed to help them and to help win in all the stores. But we're also looking at basics of in-store visibility. We look at the number of, for instance, coolers that we deploy or that we plan to deploy in 2025. I think that's short-term where for us is the biggest gain. But of course, the benefit of being part of the Heineken system is that we can learn and that we can look at other markets and see what works and then take those best practices and develop it for India specifically.
Okay. Thank you.
Ashutosh, does that answer your question?
Yes. Thank you so much.
Okay. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone. We'll take a question from the line of Ajay Thakur from Anand Rathi Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. So wanted to understand a bit more on the consolidated EBIT margin impact from the Telangana price increase. While I understand you had mentioned about 100 basis point kind of a gross margin impact, but can we expect a similar or a higher kind of a number on the EBIT margin from the Telangana price increase?
Jorn, you want to take that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, we welcome the additional pricing. And like Vivek said, it's great progress while we are not there where we want to be. To be very honest, it's also us gaining back some margin as we were selling at loss in Telangana. Yes, of course, this will improve the top-line margin. But like we said, we're also investing in growth. I don't expect that to one-on-one translate into a margin expansion. It's very welcome to balance our business and to look after where can we invest behind the brands, behind the organization, to continue to grow. I would be very careful to translate that immediately into bottom-line underlying margin expansion.
Understood. And second question was more on the, you know, cost-saving initiative that we have undertaken. While I understand that there has been, you know, already front-loading of the, you know, cost in terms of the exceptional items, I just wanted to understand, is it kind of, you know, totally been kind of covered with the exceptional item, or we still have some more of it, you know, pending, which can, you know, come up in the next quarter? And also, in addition to that, is there any, you know, one-off also sitting in the other expenses during the quarter related to the cost-saving measures that we have undertaken?
Yeah. I think I can answer the first part and second, Jorn. I'll ask you to answer if there are any other one-off items which are there in the P&L this quarter. I think productivity is going to be an ongoing thing at UBL because, you know, as we are going to invest and grow, we will keep looking at the opportunities to save.
So, but what we wanted to do was we didn't want to do multiple small initiatives throughout the time. So we actually did four or five programs at the same time. And all of these programs were intent of, you know, upgrading the organization, finding the structural efficiencies, but also using digitization to get better on this. So this is why you have these exceptional costs in this quarter. I and we will be having the saving.
We will absolutely have another productivity program for 2025. When will we do that? Definitely not during the season because, you know, you want to focus on making sure you're serving the consumers too on doing that. But somewhere in the second half, we will do that. And when we do that, we will let you know on that. But any other exceptional item, Jorn, you can talk about it in the current P&L?
Yeah. No, absolutely. I think not necessarily exceptional items, but conscious choices, for the most part. So, like Vivek mentioned, to be ready for the summer season 2025, we did put additional money behind making sure that our breweries are ready. So in terms of maintenance cost, on the quarter, we see quite a peak, other than in other quarters. So to make sure that the breweries are ready to fill the demand for the peak season. We still continue to see an increase in the organization cost because we started investing in the organization in, let's say Q2, Q1, Q2, of this fiscal year. So we still see continued increase in those expenses if you compare it on Q3 from the previous year.
The last thing I would like to mention here as well is that, as you all are aware, the outstanding receivables in Telangana, of course, have an impact on our financing costs and the cost of working capital. Part of that also reflecting on the Q3 P&L and impacting the margins there. I think those are the three items that I wouldn't necessarily consider them to be exceptional, but we do expect those items to normalize moving forward. The underlying margin of the business is still very healthy.
Understood. Thank you so.
Thank you. We'll take a last question from the line of Vishal Punmiya from YES SECURITIES. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you very much. My first question is on . If you could share the increment of Visi-coolers over the previous quarter and what is the number currently?
Yeah. No, I think it's a great question. We actually added almost 10,000 Visi-coolers in this quarter. As I said, beer is sold when it is cold. And again, going back to our role as category maker, we actually are working on ensuring there are more coolers in various parts of the places. We were able to place almost 1,000 plus coolers in Andhra Pradesh as the market opened up to really do that. So we have implemented more than 10,000 coolers.
Okay, and also, if you could share the CapEx number for '26 and '27, including Uttar Pradesh?
Look, it's very difficult to share the CapEx number because, you know, as we said, we are investing in the growth. We are looking at the opportunity. The numbers are very, you know, they're variable because, you know, some places we may go with a hybrid model. Some places they're investing in our own breweries. So we have a total strategic plan. So I won't be able to share the number at this stage. And I would say that a lot of it also depends on the policy regulation. Because one of the things I'm really, really concerned about is the affordability of the beer because in the last few months, most of these states are taking duty increases, price increases for the consumer.
And while we are putting a lot of effort to invest in the category growth, but this can be a real dampener because, like, Karnataka is a very good example. You know, if the momentum would have continued what it was there for five or six years, we would have actually gone and maybe built another brewery or expanded another brewery to meet the demand.
But unfortunately, I think some of our competitors are not seen from that lens as a category maker. I think, you know, they see it only growing shares and they get okay with, you know, some of these changes. And I really hope that with the new platform of Beer Association of India, we are actually trying to make sure that as large players, we actually, you know, advocate the right things. You know, even in Telangana, when we took the right thing for the industry sustainability, you know, I'm told that there were many beer manufacturers who were trying to see if they can grow shares in this environment.
So I really think that, you know, one of the things is to really think beyond, you know, the current pie and think about a much larger pie to actually see the category opportunity. As more and more of those opportunities open up, I think our CapEx plan will change with that. So I would be very open with you. Look, it is actually, you'll be surprised that the CapEx plan are more as fluctuating as, you know, your travel expenses sometimes because a policy change happens and you suddenly say, "Oh, really?
Do I need a brewery here if this is going to be the trend there?" So, I don't want to give a number, but I would say that it will be a very healthy number for UBL and there because we'll still invest in expansion and driving the growth. We are still investing in our own breweries to have better technology. You heard the UP investment, which is close to $82 million investment, and it's a significant investment as well.
Would it be fair to assume a 2-3x CapEx versus the, versus what we have seen in the last two, three years? Or would it, would that band be right?
Look, it would be very difficult to give a number because we are also looking at various models. Because in one of these states, we also, our CBU partner or contract manufacturer is expanding their capacity and we are working through it. So it will be definitely higher than where it is today. I can definitely tell you, but I don't want to give a number.
Understood. Got it. Thank you and.. Ashutosh.
If I can add something here, touching on a couple of items.
So if we look at the beer category growth, we think there's three things that really drive category growth. It's awareness, availability, and affordability. And I think Vivek spoke to availability, to affordability. And if we look at awareness, also that's where the Visi-coolers play a big role. So in the store, the visibility of beer is definitely helped with Visi-coolers. So we think that's going to help for the category and for our brands as well.
On the availability, that obviously ties into the investment as well. And that's why we also look at it state by state, what is the availability, what's the capacity, and how can we tap into the capacity? Is it through a greenfield like in UP or is it through a partnership with existing brewing capacity? Because still, and I remain having this conversation with Vivek as well, overall pan-India, there's underutilization of brewing capacity. So we need to make sure that we take the smart decisions here and not invest in greenfields where we don't have to.
On the UP specifically, I think, if we look at UP, it's the state with the biggest state revenue coming from the alcohol beverage industry, but still versus other states, we see a lot of headroom in terms of consumption of beer versus spirits. So that's one of the reasons why we think UP is a very good potential for us to invest, and that's where also that piece on availability plays a role with the new policy because doubling the store is massive change, We talk quite a bit about urbanization as one of the drivers for growth.
Yes, that is definitely true because availability in cities is often better, but the doubling of stores will also make sure that in non-urban areas, there's more availability of beer, and we do see across FMCG that actually rural demand is outpacing urban demand, so we think in that sense that UP has all the right levers turned to make sure that that's where the growth is, so from an investment point of view, it shot up quite rapidly on our priority list in terms of where do we think a greenfield makes the most sense, so we're extremely confident that this is the right decision now to go with the greenfield. In another state, the decision might be a different one, but based on similar trade-offs.
Oh, got it. Thank you.
Thank you. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Gupta for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
No, first of all, thank you everyone for your questions and thank you for everyone for your confidence in this. I, I again want to repeat, I think, you know, as a team, we feel very confident that we are on the right track as a company. We also know that it will be a lot of hard work, a lot of uncertainty. But having said that,
I think, you know, we are, we are, investing in building the category and investing in driving the growth and investing in winning in this market. We are, continuously, you know, investing in the capabilities as well. And, one of the big capabilities is our corporate affairs, through Beer Association of India, but also our own effort to really, really talk about the affordability of the beer and accessibility of the beer.
The one thing which is giving me sleepless nights is the affordability of the beer because if beer becomes expensive and versus spirits, you know, it can lead to not only the long-term category erosion, but also it has other factors on sociability and health and other factors. So that is one area where I think broader industry and broader influencer group can really track and do that. But other than that, you know, we are very buoyant on the potential of India, but at the same time, there's a lot of hard work ahead.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of United Breweries, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.