Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Irfan Raeen from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Steve. On behalf of Granules India Ltd, I extend a very warm welcome to all participants on Q4 and FY 2024 financial results discussion call. Today on the call, we have Dr. Krishna Prasad, sir, Chairman and Managing Director; Dr. K.V.S. Ram Rao, sir, Joint Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Ms. Priyanka Chigurupati, ma'am, Executive Director; Mr. Mukesh Surana, sir, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin the call, I would like to give a short disclaimer. This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements, which are completely based upon our beliefs, opinion, expectation as of today. These statements are not guarantee of our future performance and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Krishna, sir. Over to you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Irfan. A very good evening to all of you, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you very much for attending our Q4 earnings call today. A detailed presentation of our Q4 and full year FY 2024 performance has been uploaded to our website, and I'm sure all of you would have gone through it by now. We had a strong performance in Q4, with continued growth in the formulation share of the business. This was driven by new products manufactured in India and mainly in the U.S., and also sales in new geographies. While the year wasn't as per our expectations due to several reasons, including the cyberattack and changing marketing dynamics for some of our products, mainly paracetamol, we are very excited to see our strategic initiatives take shape.
Our API segment had grown by 41% in Q4 FY 2024 compared to Q4 FY 2023, and contributed 65% of our revenue in FY 2024. The sales of new products other than our legacy five products have been growing well and now contribute 25% of our revenue versus 15% one year ago. We continue to prioritize investment in building R&D capabilities and improve the quality of our product pipeline. We have exciting product pipeline in oncology, antidiabetic segment, large volume molecules, and select non-OSD forms. Dr. Ram Rao will elaborate on this further in his brief. We have made good progress on products being developed on innovation and technology platforms such as biocatalysis and continuous manufacturing. The pilot plant validation for two API products has now been completed, and we are gearing to build commercial-scale manufacturing capacity at Unit V in Vizag.
We have approved ANDAs for the finished products, finished dosage forms of these APIs, and with this backward integration, enabled by the differentiated technology platforms, we are aiming to reach the leadership position in these molecules. We expect the formulation segment to drive the growth going forward, with API and select KSMs supporting this growth. We are scaling our API capacity to cater to this incremental demand. The construction and capacity ramp-up of the new formulation facility at Genome Valley, as part of Granules' Life Sciences, is progressing well. This plant will add 8 billion dosages to our finished dosage capacity. The plant successfully commenced operations in the month of March, and the capacity is being ramped up progressively. On the sustainability front, we are committed to achieving net zero by 2050, aligned to SBTi's 1.5-degree pathway.
We have conducted one of the most comprehensive assessments of our Scope 3 emissions in the pharma industry. Our net zero roadmap has been finalized, and action plans are being initiated on efficiency measures, adoption of biofuels, renewable energy, sustainable supplier sustainability programs, and green molecules platform. At CZRO, our green pharma initiative, we are focused on strengthening our core business for backward integration of paracetamol and metformin in a sustainable manner. We commenced operations for DCDA at the newly built pilot plant in Vizag during March 2024. The pilot DCDA plant has a capacity of 108 tons per annum. Plans are being worked out for a larger commercial facility at Kakinada.
To summarize, we are excited about the various avenues for growth, including advancing our core, core products up the value chain, introducing differentiated new product lines, and expanding and deepening our presence into new geographical pockets. With this, I hand over the call to Dr. Ram Rao.
Thank you, Chairman, and good evening, everyone. We have been communicating for some time about our strategy and transformation journey at Granules. After several quarters of focus and hard work, I'm happy to share that our strategies, strengthening the core, focus on R&D, technology and innovation, and a strong focus on quality, have been paying off well in the markets, or in other words, we are strategy in action.... Following are examples which are of translation of our strategic thinking and execution into tangible business results. Our first strategy of strengthening the core, we have looked at this strategy for two components of our portfolio: regular commercial products and new product launches. Our approach is through commercial excellence, innovation in R&D and technology, and manufacturing excellence.
For commercial products, our program is focused on market share expansion in the chosen geography, resulting in moving up the value chain from API to finished dosage. Expansion of business in geographies outside the U.S., a sustainable and a healthy bottom line. Following are the key results in this strategy and action. The finished dosage business is now contributing 65% of the revenue, while our API and PFI businesses are around 35% in FY 2024. Comparatively, in FY 2023, the finished dosage business 25% of the revenue. This is a significant shift in our business model, driven by strong focus on North America, Europe, and chosen geographies of Rest of the World. This is an outcome of our strategy of strengthening the core. Another important guiding principle is the revenue and the market share growth of our core molecules in North America.
We have grown more than 20% in the last couple very tough generic competition in this geography. This growth is led by product, where we have achieved and have continued to remain between the two top players over several years. We continue to maintain this dominant position in these molecules. Our finished dosage business revenue has also gone up significantly in Europe and some of the chosen regulated markets. The revenue has gone up from INR 248 crore in FY 2023 to INR 337 crore in FY 2024, an increase of 32%. The approach of strengthening the core, which has also made us build a packaging facility, GPIK in the U.S., has grown our OTC business by around 25% in FY 2024.
This move has made us one of the key players in the private label OTC space and the only integrated player right from raw materials to distribution. New product launches. We have received 16 dossier approvals from various regions in FY 2024 on account of the excellent work from our R&D and regulatory teams. Several of these molecules have been launched in U.S. We continue to gain momentum on products we launched in quarter three and quarter four of FY 2024, primarily in U.S. Majority of these molecules are being filed in Europe and some of the chosen ROW markets. We have already received some approvals from Europe and expect most of the approvals in Europe and other geographies in the next couple of quarters.
Some of these molecules will become a part of the existing core molecules, and our approach of strengthening the core will enable these molecules to become market leaders in all chosen geographies. We are not only strengthening the core, but we are also expanding the core. Through these achievements of strategy in action, I wish to state that our first pillar of strategy has been successfully executed, and the results are clearly visible through market share increase, revenue growth, and geography expansion, along with healthy and sustainable bottom line. Docking this with our backward integration strategy and green chemistry, we wish to build a robust and an expansive core for the organization. The second strategy on R&D, technology, and innovation. Through our efforts in portfolio management, R&D, and continued innovation in new molecules, we have successfully created four major platforms for the organization.
The first platform, CNS, specifically ADHD, is a growing therapeutic category in U.S. and in other parts of the world. Our R&D infrastructure at our Chantilly facility in Virginia is focused on developing-
The conference is now in record mode.
CNS medication, with special focus on ADHD products. Our strict policies and management around manufacturing and commercialization of these products have allowed us to gain momentum in the U.S. Our R&D in Chantilly also focuses on complex products, some of which have been launched at a brand level for several years without competition, owing to the complexity in development. The confirmation of this portfolio includes Para IV, Para IV 180-day, +25, and Para III products. With this well-balanced portfolio of immediate launches and IP-driven designation launches in the next couple of years, we see a lot of excitement in this category. Oncology platforms. Leveraging our excellent infrastructure in APIs and combination of oncology and human platform, we started developing our oncology portfolio of first-to-file, first-to-launch, Para III and Para IV and Para IV 180-day products in the U.S. and Europe.
This portfolio will also extend to the Rest of the World, including India. These products will be developed for the global markets, and we expect to launch them from FY 2026 onwards. A lot of commercial work in this direction has already begun, and we expect to play a very significant role in the overall solid oncology business across the globe in the coming years. Enzyme manufacturing technology platform. We have been communicating for the last four quarters on our progress on this platform. Five projects are significantly advanced and almost at the stage of completion of optimization. One of the projects has been tried at the plant scale successfully. We are focused on creating manufacturing technology infrastructure and start validation of at least three molecules in quarter three, FY 2025.
This platform is expected to bring us global cost leadership, manufacturing technology excellence, and help us lead towards our journey on sustainability. The progress of this platform in a short period of four quarters demonstrates our commitment towards transforming the organization through science and technology. As is clear from the above, Granules is fully focused on building world-class product platforms through science and technology, and drive business growth through bottom line sustainability and living the purpose and vision of the organization. To achieve this transformation, spend in R&D has also been increased to around 4.5% of the sales. Strong focus on quality. I wish to share our happiness with all of you on the Zero 483 outcome of our Unit V facility of USFDA in April this year.
Quality everywhere is a value of the organization, and we wish to percolate the quality culture across all layers of the organization. Several initiatives focused on behaviors, technology, systems, and processes drive excellence in quality. We will continue to have strategic focus on quality, and we make this formidable strength for Granules. Thank you, and over to you, Mukesh.
Thank you, CMD and GMD. Let me take you all through the top financial parameters now. Revenue. The fourth quarter revenue were INR 11,758 million, as compared to INR 11,955 million in Q4 FY 2023, with a decline of 2%. Formulation growth, including GPI manufactured products, offset by decline in Para API sales volume and price erosion. Revenue grew by 2% as compared to Q3 FY 2024, in line with our strategic focus, continued FD sales growth, including GPI manufactured products, offset by decline in Para API sales volume and price erosion. The full year FY 2024 revenue were INR 45,064 million, as compared to INR 45,119 million in FY 2023.
Despite a cyber incident and decline in paracetamol volume and price erosion, Granules focused into formulations, including GPI manufactured products, enabled the company to sustain the similar turnover year-on-year. The sales breakup as per business division, geographic regions are presented in our investor presentation, which is available on the website. Value added. Our value added as a percentage of sales for Q4 FY 2024 was 60.1% as compared to 47.8% in Q4 FY 2023. Value added as compared to Q4 FY 2023 is up by 12.2 percentage points, primarily on account of higher FD sales, including GPI manufactured products and lower material costs. Value added as a percentage of sales for Q4 FY 2024 is up by 3.1 percentage points from Q3 FY 2024, primarily on account of higher FD sales.
Our value added as a percentage of sales for FY 2024 was 65.1%, as compared to 48.9% in FY 2023. Value added as compared to FY 2023 is up by 6.3 percentage points, primarily on account of higher FD sales, including GPI manufactured products and lower material costs. EBITDA and EBITDA margin. EBITDA for the quarter was INR 2,557 million, that is, 12, 21.7% of sales, as compared to INR 2,281 million, that is, 19.1% of sales in Q4 FY 2023, an increase of 12% in value terms over the previous year, mainly on account of improved VA percentage.
EBITDA for the year was INR 8,560 million as compared to INR 9,138 million in FY 2023, a decline of 6% over the previous year, mainly on account of increase in R&D spend for R&D pipelines. R&D. Our R&D spend for the quarter was INR 609 million, as compared to INR 369 million in Q4 FY 2023, and INR 468 million in Q3 FY 2024. R&D spend for the year was INR 1,986 million. We are going to continue to spend on R&D in the coming quarters as well. Freight costs. Freight expenses increased by INR 128 million compared to Q3 FY 2024, mainly on account of Red Sea surcharge issues. Out of this, an amount of INR 75 million is inventorized on the dispatches made to USA subsidiaries.
Net debt. Our net debt was INR 8,421 million, as compared to INR 7,631 million at the beginning of the year. The net debt has increased only by INR 750 million. Cash-to-cash cycle. Our cash-to-cash cycle was 161 days in the current quarter, as compared to 132 days at the beginning of the year. New launches and Red Sea issues impacted both inventory days and overall CTC days. Cash flow from operations. Cash flow from operations for the quarter was healthy, INR 2,150 million as compared to INR 1,794 million in Q4 FY 2023, and for the year was INR 4,394 million as compared to INR 7,387 million in FY 2023.
Cash flow from operations for the year is decreased due to reduction in EBITDA and an increase in inventory days. CapEx. CapEx spend during the quarter was INR 1,006 million, primarily invested in Granules Life Sciences and Granules CZRO. During the year, we spent INR 3,823 million, primarily invested in Granules Life Sciences, amounting to INR 1,560 million, and Granules CZRO, INR 565 million. ROC for FY 2024 is 16.5% as compared to 31.2% in FY 2023. The decline is primarily on account of decrease in EBIT, investments in Granules Life Sciences and Granules CZRO, and increase in inventory days. With this, I open the floor for questions.
... Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking the question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ashish Soni, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
This is regarding the new capacity you have built. So when do you think optimally it can be used within this year or maybe next financial year?
Yeah, I think you are referring to the combination capacity.
Yes.
Assuming it's that, I think from July, the ramp-up will happen. By August, we should be touching about, something like INR 100 million per month. And over the next eight months from then, maybe into, April or May of next fiscal, we should be able to touch at least, INR 4 billion-INR 5 billion.
Okay.
Annualized capacity.
Regarding this new product approval, so how much it can contribute to our revenues going forward this year, next year?
Priyanka, you want to answer that?
Sure. Good morning. Good evening, everybody. Going forward, we are looking for our new products to contribute about 7%-10% of everything gross development next year's revenues.
Okay. And how is our progress on the DCDA, the green chemistry, what we are planning to do? So how is the progress right now looking like?
We started pilot plant production in March. We commercialized production from the pilot plant, and a lot of trials and variations are happening. We are also streamlining and tweaking the process. This process is first time in the world anybody has done it. It's our own proprietary patented technology. It needs a lot of refinement. So it's going on in the right direction, everything as planned, and once it's finalized, we should be... We are already making arrangements for commercial production in Kakinada. So things are going well on that front.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you, and all the best to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darshil Jhaveri from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. Just wanted to ask, right now, sir, we are, you know, seeing improvement in our gross margins right now again. What kind of margin trajectory would you see in FY 2025? Will we be able to, you know, keep bettering margins as quarters go by?
Yeah. Thanks for this question, Jhaveri. We have achieved 48% of gross margin in FY 2024 and FY 2023. In FY 2024, we have achieved 55%. Last two quarters, we are in the range of 57%-60%. That is also because of higher FD bills. We continue to see that the higher FD bills will be there in the next year as well. The raw material cost also has helped us in the current year. So depending on the raw material cost and our product mix, we see the sustainability in the range of 55%-58%.
Okay. So, sir, how much would that translate to as an EBITDA? So can we see around, like, a broad range, maybe 24%-26% EBITDA, is that possible, sir? If you could help me in that, sir.
I would be very conservative and say, yes, something around 22-23 is possible. That's what we've been maintaining so far, and we are trying for more, but let's see what happens.
Okay, perfect. Perfect. And sir, with regards to our higher interest costs, so what would be the trajectory that you would see? Maybe will that this run rate would continue for a year or two, or how would we look at our higher interest costs, sir?
That would all depend on the U.S. Fed, but I would let Mukesh answer that in detail.
Yeah. Yeah, thank you, sir, for saying that rightly. So yes, it is largely depend on our SOFR rates. You see our net debt has not gone up despite investments in CapEx, so it is largely depend on Fed rate. And based on the current conditions, we see the Fed rate is not going to come down in the next six months also. So in the current, in the coming upcoming quarter, we see the similar interest cost of Q4 . So on next quarter at least.
Okay. So that helps a lot. So and just like, sir, one last question. In terms of revenue, would we like to guide something that how much better could we do it in FY 2025, sir? Any quantitative, qualitative guidance that, you know, can we grow at a certain rate? That would be very helpful, sir.
We'll definitely do better, Jhaveri. How much better? I don't want to mention anything. Like I said before, we have taken a decision not to give any guidance.
Okay. Okay, perfect, sir. And sir, just last, one last question, sir. In terms of our demand environment, do we see any, you know, you know, how is the demand environment currently going? Is it buoyant right now, or you know, what do you see around, sir?
... The demand for all our products is quite good. As we add new geographies, the sales are also increasing, and, there is a fairly good demand and very healthy demand for all our products. Except, of course, with the exception of paracetamol, where we have had some challenges in the last quarter.
Okay, okay. That's it from my side. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirali Shah from Ashika Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi, so my first question is that, paracetamol API sales have been declining, and, it's witnessing price erosion. So when do you see this stabilizing out?
Actually, this demand is also partly because of overstocking by some of the large brand leaders in the world, and that I think should start stabilizing from Q3. Also there's also an issue of excess capacity that was built up after COVID, where there is a lot of competition, and that is causing the price erosion. I think this year, most of this thing may continue. Next year onwards, by 2026, things should stabilize, but even during this year, quarter-on-quarter, I see there will be some improvement.
Understood. Thank you. My second question is on our debt profile. Where do we see a comfortable net debt number, say, over the next two to three years?
Internally, we want to manage net debt to EBITDA at 1.1, we are comfortable. Hope that answers your question?
Yes, sure. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you'd like to ask a question, may press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Aditya Sen from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, this new formulation capacity that we have installed, how much revenue do we foresee from this plant itself in this fiscal and in the coming year?
The new capacity, you mean granulation?
Mukesh said, yeah.
CMD has already answered that. INR 100 million per month, we are expecting July 2024 onwards, and next fiscal year, we are looking at INR 4 billion-INR 5 billion.
All right.
The revenue will depend on the product mix. Also, we are trying to finalize which products to commercialize there. It will depend on that.
All right, got it. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirali Shah from Ashika Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the follow-up. So I just have one more question, that we see that the product mix over the next two years, it has changed from 25% to 35% legacy products. So, when can we expect the shift in the margins due to this product mix?
Yeah. So as I have already pointed out, that we have a product mix change from API to finished product, and as CFO has already explained, we already moved up our margins because of the shift in the business model. All the new products which we are launching now, and we are going to get approvals in the next one to two years also, will add to this shift in the business model more towards the FD. And also, in other regions also, we have the contributions coming from the finished goods. So overall, I think the momentum will be quite positive on the finished goods side, and that should help us to have much better and sustainable margins of bottom line.
Got it. Thanks. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhav Marda from Fidelity. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, sir. I thank you so much for your time. My question was that, if you look at our, employee costs and other expenses this year, they've gone up by almost 20%-25%. And I think some of it seems to be that, you know, we are kind of investing ahead of the curve, in new plants, and I think we have the new packaging facility in Virginia as well. So is it the right understanding that in the coming, couple of years, as revenues scale up, some of these cost line items, should kind of grow lesser than revenues? Basically, is there, like, scope for operating leverage to kick in, given how the business is, kind of, positioned right now?
Yeah, Madhav, you have been perfectly right saying that the new facility and expansions that have... They have led to increase in manpower costs. It's R&D, too. R&D, GPIK, the packaging facility in the U.S., and also, most importantly, we are investing in building a future-ready organization. In the U.S., not only the packaging side, there's been a lot of investment on the marketing team, and also building a capacity in the U.S. manufacturing. So both these things also have taken up a lot of manpower, and so. And also, we have invested a lot on the global marketing team. We have built up a new organization to serve customers in a better way, and we have people of very high caliber, and a lot of people have been added to various services. They have customer specific representatives.
There's a big change happening in the organization. This cost increase has happened, but going forward, it will not be at this rate, definitely. This is a big shift that has happened this year, so it will be in control.
Okay. Okay. So and then the second question which I had was, I think in the presentation, you have highlighted, in the... I think this is the second part of that slide, which is the portfolio expansion slide, slide number seven You have spoken about the CNS, ADHD products and the MUPS products, and I think you have also mentioned about getting approval for metoprolol and, I think, one other product, which has come through. So just wanted to understand that some of these products, will they start contributing in a heavy way, from Q1 FY 2025? Is that how we should think about it?
They will not contribute heavily from Q1, but as we go by, these are very big products for us. We are banking heavily on these products, and the margins and the revenues from these products are going to really propel the growth of Granules.
Okay. So could you share a bit more on the timeline, like when do we expect more material ramp-up from these newer products?
This year and this year itself, FY 2025, is a good contribution from these products and a good, good growth due to these products. But 2026 should be the year where we will see a very marked difference.
Okay, okay. I think, I think Priyanka was referring to.
No, go ahead.
No, I was just saying that, I think in the earlier comment, you had mentioned that, 7%-10% of contributions will come from new products in FY 2025. So did I get that right? 7%-10% of FY 2024 revenue, basically should be like new products in FY 2025. Is that right?
I think, I think so. What we are looking at right now, when the question was asked, was on the 7%-10% of the contribution coming from new products. But as we see the number of approvals and the launches that we are doing in the U.S., this percentage of the new products is definitely will go up. And it continues to grow as we go from FY 2025 to 2026 and 2027, this is expected to grow much more.
Madhev, I just want to add a clarification. In the presentation deck which we have circulated, it is a history of 10 years. So history of 10 years, if you see that five products were the large and everything else was new product. What JMG has just clarified is, in addition to that, another 5%-7% contribution from more new products.
Not the growth of new products introduced already, but the products that will be introduced.
Got it. And has metoprolol being launched in the U.S. or that is, going to happen, going ahead? And ibuprofen, OTC as well.
Mostly U.S., but it's happening in other countries also. So, nowadays, whatever the new filings we do, it's for across the world, global filings. So most probably we launch in, U.S. and Europe at the same time. Other countries will be in the next phase.
Okay, got it. And just a last question was, our CapEx expectation for FY 2025?
FY 2025 CapEx, we are estimating about INR 6,000 million, INR 600 crores. Half of that will be Granules R&D and expansion. Other half will be for other projects as well as maintenance CapEx.
Okay, got it. Okay.
Just to elaborate a little bit on that matter-
Yeah.
We have decided to go a little slow on P0 , take a very cautious approach.
Yeah.
Only after each stage gate is passed, we are investing money.
Which makes sense. Which makes sense. Right. Okay. All right, then. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Foram Parekh from Sharekhan. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, you mentioned that value-added products now contribute 65% of the sales. So, may I ask, what is the percentage contribution do we envisage? I mean, till what percentage, I mean, do we want to grow?
I'll just clarify, you know, your question a little bit. So value added, we call it as gross margin as value added, which is 55% for the year. And if you're asking about formulation, quarter four, we were 73%; overall year, we were 65%.
This 65% is expected to reach to what number? I mean, how much do we envisage?
We are looking at around 70%, moving forward.
It could be little more too, but we will see as we go by. We expect some API sales also to keep increasing. We don't want to cannibalize that totally.
Okay, so this 75 is expected, like in one year's time, or it will be spread over a period of two years?
It will be next year, one year's time at best.
Okay. So then my second question is: you mentioned that EBITDA margin is expected to reach to 22%-23%. So again, this would be, like, over a period of two years, or we see this coming at, being executed next year?
If you see, in the past few years also, we were around 21%-23% EBITDA margin, so we expect that to be restored as early as this year, possibly. But going forward, we say that this is what we will maintain, but the possibility of doing better is always there.
... Okay. And sir, in the presentation I see, on the Slide 22, geographically, all the geographies have not performed in FY 2024. So could you just elaborate, I mean, why are we not able to grow in all the regions like Europe, Latin, India, ROW?
In these markets, Latin and ROW, especially these two markets, and in Europe, our sales are mostly propelled by paracetamol, API and PFI. So we had an issue on a paracetamol API, PFI, due to market demand coming down and also the price erosion. Now, just to give you an example, the prices have come down from something like INR 660 to INR 250 or INR 300. It's as low as that. So that is what has contributed to the decline in sales in this region.
Okay. Sir, yeah,
At least as gone up in Europe, that compensated to some extent.
Okay. But sir, in ibuprofen, we see that prices have come down, and probably, we do not see it going back to the COVID days. So, how do you see the demand? I mean, is there demand, and with this kind of prices, how do you see Ibuprofen sales ramping up in the next years?
Ibuprofen sales will have to ramp up only by volume increase. It's not, it is not going to be driven by value. I think the value is at its lowest, and it will continue for a while. The market for these products, like paracetamol and ibuprofen, don't grow too much. They grow by single digits or possibly two digits. And the only way we have been growing is to get increase our market share, and then very crudely put it, cannibalized on other people's market share. We have done it successfully in the past, and even for ibuprofen going forward, we expect to improve our market share, mainly in the U.S. But the good news is we have some European approval, and we already have titled some sales contracts with some customers there. So ibuprofen will only grow by cannibalizing on others.
Okay. Sir, can you just give us the number? What would be the market share for Ibuprofen in the European market?
They have different forms, OTC, RX, and all. It's a little difficult to estimate. But we do not have a presence today, but we will be getting a good market share as we go forward in Europe.
Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of K.V.K.S. Chaudhary, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. My first question is with regard to MUPS Block. Can you give us an idea about the current capacity utilization in the product from that line?
MUPS Block is contributing quite well to the whole revenue and profitability. But actually, MUPS Block, we also do a little bit of granulation and other tablet compression too, and we have packaging lines. But actually, going to just the MUPS products, we are doing around 40%-50% capacity utilization, and by the end of this year, we expect it will go up to 70%.
My second question is with regard to Granules Pharmaceuticals, Inc, GPI. We have had some controlled substances approvals and as well as ADHD, but the ramp-up doesn't seem to be, you know, commensurate with the number of approvals. What is the current investment and asset turnover, EBITDA in GPI?
Can I come back on that question?
Asset, asset turnover. Let's talk about asset turnover for GPI to start with.
GP asset turnover, we, we have invested there in the intangible assets as well as fixed assets. Fixed assets turnover is significantly better. So it is in excess of five, and now GPI manufactured products is also growing well. Some of the launches, as you rightly said, which will get launched in the next couple of years, so we will get a good return on the intangible assets also.
The controlled substance is not under patent. Is it possible for you to launch them immediately?
We have other controlled substances being sold from GPI-
Uh.
from our U.S. facility already. And that facility has been set up only for mainly to concentrate on these products, and we have more products coming up, and we'll be telling more of these products.
Okay. What, what's your ADHD line?
Sorry?
What are your products lined up in for ADHD?
We have many products lined up, but, I don't think we should talk about names.
I don't...
Hello?
Yeah, we can, Mr. Chaudhary. I don't think we can give you the names of products.
Okay, thank you so much.
Yeah.
That's it from my side.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants are requested to press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Niraj Prasad from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible?
Yes, you are, Niraj.
Hi, good to see you.
... Hello, Tushar here, sir.
Hi, Tushar.
Hi, sir. Sir, on metoprolol and subsequent to that, how do we see, you know, with any potential product for 2025, 2026, if you could, you know, throw some light?
Yeah, go ahead, man. Anything else?
Yeah, maybe if you could answer this, and then I'll take that.
Yeah. Tushar, metoprolol has a very good potential and its things are looking very, very positive, and we are ramping up production for the U.S. market. So we are very happy with the progress there. And the good news is Europe also, we got approval. We are going for national stage, and this year we will start sales of metoprolol in Europe also. So two regions we'll be selling, and we are also planning to take the product into LATAM and other countries. And outlook looks quite good.
Sir, anything on the price erosion on metoprolol per se with, in terms of the competition?
Not a great price erosion. There's normally, whenever a newcomer comes, there will be a fight, so prices will go down a bit, but it's nothing drastic.
Okay. Okay. And sir, any other like this interesting product in the portfolio which can come up for approval in 2025?
Yeah, there's quite an interesting product, Tushar, and as we get the approvals, you will know about them. And maybe later on, possibly we could look at how they're doing. But yeah, many exciting products are in the pipeline.
Understood.
Just to add to that, we have a total of about 16-18 launches coming up this fiscal year, out of which 14 products will be new and remaining will be extensions of the launches, ramp-ups of the launches that we've already made before.
14 new launches, right, in...?
Yeah. Yeah.
Interesting. Interesting. So that should further build up, at least as far as the U.S. market is concerned.
It's not just the U.S. market, it's both, sorry, U.S. and Rest of the World markets.
And mainly Europe, Tushar.
Yeah.
Okay, so these 16-18 launches is combining of U.S. and Europe market largely?
Yeah.
Correct.
That's right. It's a big challenge for us and excitement, exciting period. It's the first time in Granules that we'll be launching so many products in one year.
Yeah, that should help, you know, grow the sales at a healthy level in 2025, 2026, right?
Yeah, that will... Definitely, Tushar, you're right. We all working towards that.
And so if I, you know, connect this comment with the EBITDA margin also moving up to 22%-23% for FY 2025, so effectively, and subsequently the cash flow generation, and considering the CapEx, the net debt level to what, you know, it will come down to maybe by end of FY 2025?
The net debt will not, possibly may not come down, Tushar. The only thing is we are looking at maintaining our the net debt EBITDA at less than one. And, we, if at all we can get great opportunities too, we may not want to grow if the net debt EBITDA is going more than one. But, we are not trying to make it zero debt or bring it down totally. We want to have a healthy, net debt EBITDA.
Understood. No, I didn't mean 0 net debt, but will there be any reduction in net debt, INR 50 crore-INR 100 crore maybe?
Not expected, Tushar. We are not at INR 1,500 crore. We are INR 840 crore. So
No, I mean-
Sorry?
No, no, I meant INR 50 crore-INR 100 crore reduction is what can be expected.
Not really so, because with the growth, there will be investment in working capital and also Granules licensed capacity expansions are planned. So we would positively manage the net debt. EBITDA ratios are not worsening. It is improving.
Just to clarify, Tushar, INR 842 is the net debt as of today, as of PNL, and I don't think we are not planning to bring it down drastically. Maybe there could be a small change, plus or minus, here and there.
Got it. Got it. And lastly, because I joined late, so I would have missed. So just if you could elaborate on the paracetamol situation, what has happened exactly, because of which there has been significant price reduction. Is there any new competition that has come up or, existing players have, you know, lowered the prices significantly?
So, Tushar, there are three components to this issue. The first one is many players who are end customers of paracetamol have actually got lot of inventory stored. As explained by chairman earlier, it will take a couple of quarters to actually get to the position of liquidating their inventory. So therefore, the paracetamol situation is expected to not to go back to the original levels, but definitely go back to some higher levels by quarter three or quarter four of this year. That is the first reason. The second reason, because the offtake is low and the capacities which have come up, thanks to COVID, are high, so there is an excess supply to the demand, and some of the organizations are looking at lowering the prices to actually survive the capacity utilization. So therefore, the price has been significantly down.
In fact, the number thrown by the chairman just a few minutes ago. So I think that's the second. And the third one, we actually did, and as I told my communication, that we are moving towards the finished dose of paracetamol and therefore we will be in a position to look at overall balancing act of paracetamol in the next couple of quarter. But suffice it to say that this situation will continue for next two, three quarters.
Just want to clarify, Tushar, except us at Granules India, every other paracetamol manufacturer is a single product company. And they will fight tooth and nail, and if they don't sell enough, they'll be dead. So they are desperate, and at this point in time, I don't think we should go and fight for that market with no margin. We will stick to our regular customers, and once their inventories are rationalized, we will get back into business.
Got you, sir. And this is more specific to paracetamol, right? We are not seeing such situation in either of metformin or ibu or metoprolol, right?
No, no, no. It's only paracetamol.
Understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir. That's it for me.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harith Ahamed from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you disclose the sales from our GPI subsidiary for FY 2024 and Pharmaceuticals, Inc. or U.S. subsidiary?
Did you say revenue, Harith, exactly?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, she can take it.
GPI full year turnover is INR 1,619 crores, Harith.
Okay.
For the quarter, it's INR 477 crore.
Okay. So, when I, when I look at FY 2024, we've had a very strong growth in the FD segment, more than 25%. So, when I think of FY 2025, should we extrapolate a similar growth? Should we be able to maintain a similar momentum, for the segment? And if you can also share the number of launches that you're targeting in the, particularly in the US.
I think all the growth going forward is only going to come, mainly coming from FD. So if you look at the overall growth, obviously the FD growth has to be very deep and very healthy. Definitely there will be a very healthy growth and possibly, little better than last year's growth.
Okay. So, when I look at the filings data that you've given in one of the slides, we have from both GPI and GIL together we have around 13 NDAs pending approval. For the size of our FD business in the U.S., it appears to be slightly on the lower side, so should we expect a further step up in R&D spend going forward? And if you can share the spend that you're anticipating in FY 2025, R&D spend that you're anticipating.
So we have already communicated that our R&D spend has gone up, and it continues to remain around that and likely go up in the coming years because we have a very good pipeline and the delivery of the pipeline in the various categories, as I mentioned before. So we expect the R&D spend to be, you know, 50, 54 first two products.
Yeah.
So I'll go ahead.
Harith, I mean, Dr. Ram Rao said in the speech that we are working on a lot of 180-day filings and all these Paragraph IV launches. So there's a lot of work going on, especially in the onco and other areas. So there could be a slight increase, but overall, I don't anticipate there'll be a great increase in R&D. Already we have provided for the growth, and we are already there.
Okay. Got it, sir. And then last one, when I look at other expenses for the quarter, there's been a sharp increase, around INR 50 crore, quarter-on-quarter. I understand some of that is probably because of the, quarter-on-quarter increase in the R&D spend, but it still seems to be on the higher side. Any one-off that's there in the numbers, the other expenses numbers?
Yeah, Dr. Harith, as we have explained, one is the R&D expenses, which has gone up. Second is the freight cost, which has also gone up because of Red Sea issues. In addition to that, there are a few one-off costs, you know, consultancy costs and quality audit costs, which also have gone up, which was specific to quarter four.
Okay. So, we should expect some normalization when we think of the coming quarter.
Yeah. So this going forward, you know, R&D, there will be a similar expenditure quarter on quarter, on the other expenditure should come down.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, this was our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Prasad for closing remarks.
Ladies and gentlemen, once again, thank you very much for attending our call in spite of your very busy schedule today, this being the earnings season. So once again, thank you very much, and look forward to meeting you all in the next investor call with better news.