Granules India Limited (BOM:532482)
India flag India · Delayed Price · Currency is INR
735.95
+24.10 (3.39%)
At close: May 6, 2026
← View all transcripts

Q1 22/23

Aug 10, 2022

Operator

Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ashish Choubey of Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Ashish Choubey
Investor Relations Advisor, Orient Capital

Thank you, Cathy. Good morning, everyone. I am Ashish Choubey from Orient Capital, and we are investor relations advisors to the company. I hope that all of you and your families are safe and healthy. On behalf of Granules India Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to all participants on Q1 FY 23 financial results discussion call. Today on the call, I am joined by Dr. Krishna Prasad, sir, CMD, Dr. K.V.S. Ram Rao, sir, Joint MD and CEO, Miss Priyanka Ma'am, Executive Director, GPI, and Mr. Sandip, sir, Chief Financial Officer. I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through our investor deck and press release that we have uploaded yesterday on exchanges and on our company's website. I would like to give a short disclaimer before we start this call.

This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements which are completely based upon our beliefs, opinions and expectations as of today. These statements are not a guarantee of our future performance and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties. With this, I hand over the call to CMD, sir, for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Thank you, Ashish. A very good morning to all of you, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you very much for joining us today. I'm happy to inform you that we had a decent performance in Q1 and see positivity going forward. Our revenues for the quarter were INR 1,020 croress with EBITDA of INR 212 croress and PAT at INR 128 croress. Compared to Q1 of the previous fiscal year, we had a 20% growth in revenue, 10% growth in gross margin, 5% growth in EBITDA and 6% growth in PAT. We had recorded a sequential growth in terms of absolute values of, in gross margin, EBITDA and PAT for the last four quarters. Our gross margin percentage, EBITDA margin and PAT as percentage of sales have also grown sequentially for the last three quarters.

This performance was despite the pricing and logistics pressures we continue to face in the U.S. However, on the positive side, the prices of all our input materials and international freight rates have stabilized, and we see a slow downward trend. Though we do not see the prices returning to pre-COVID levels, we are confident that the downward trend will continue for a while. While we had faced challenges around the availability of PAP, the key raw material for paracetamol during the past few years, the situation has now improved with the largest manufacturer in China resuming production and a few new manufacturers coming up in India. We now have adequate supply of PAP for manufacturing paracetamol from the month of June 2022, and the plant has started running with full capacity. This stability in the PAP supplies is expected to continue in future.

With the environment around us improving, we are confident of improving our performance quarter on quarter. Due to the supply chain disruptions during the past, our inventory and working capital had increased considerably. Now our focus has shifted to free cash generation along with profitability. As you can see from our investor presentation, our operational cash flow had increased to INR 180 croress as compared to INR 75 croress in the last quarter. Our free cash after CapEx expenditure of INR 82 croress was INR 98 croress, and we expect this to improve going forward due to various measures which are in process. During the quarter, we had filed five ANDAs and two U.S. DMFs. We have received one U.S., one EU and one Canadian approval. We have received an approval for, from the Department of Pharmaceuticals under PLI scheme to manufacture DCDA, which is the key starting material for Metformin.

Our European business has seen good traction and contributed 22.5% to our Q1 revenue. The growth for Europe in upcoming years will be driven majorly by partnership business model, as this offers value add to our partners and strengthens Granules' footprint across Europe. The Board of Directors have approved a buyback at INR 400 per share at a total value of INR 250 croress. After the year-mark amount of INR 300 croress for CapEx during the year, we are confident of ending this year with a much improved cash flow and lower net debt position compared to FY 2022 and thought it is prudent to reward our shareholders. When the current business model continues to grow, we are all excited about our journey towards Granules 2.0, and I request Dr. K.V.S. Ram Rao, JMD and CEO, to take you through this journey.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, everyone. As a part of Granules' long-term strategy, science, technology and innovation has been identified as an important strategic lever and key to our success by enabling us to offer differentiation and global cost leadership position in the market. Our strategy aims at creating technology platforms in chemistry and biotransformation through partnerships and internal innovations. We continue to build the organization aligned to that transformation. We are doubling down our R&D technology and sustainability, building strong R&D capability for API and formulation, thereby enhancing the scale and quality of our pipeline. Towards this goal, we have recently inaugurated a new state-of-the-art integrated product research and development center at Genome Valley, Hyderabad. The R&D setup in 20,000 sq ft will function with an initial strength of more than 150 scientists across both the divisions of API and formulation.

The new facility brings API R&D and formulation R&D teams together under one umbrella, which will enable seamless coordination between the teams, leading to agile product development processes and collaborative problem-solving. The common analytical resources will help us bring the efficiency. Our vision is to develop integrated R&D products, and with this vertical integration, we see Granules getting transformed into a technology and R&D-driven organization. The company has acquired a small biotech company to bring fermentation and biotransformation capabilities as a part of our strategy and get a lab on the pilot scale that we can leverage for enzyme-led projects of biotransformation with our partners. On the business development front, we are currently working with several customers to provide CMO services. For our oncology block, we are evaluating opportunities for offering product, process and related services to the customer in the area of oncology.

With this, I hand over to Sandip for taking us through a detailed financial performance.

Sandip Neogi
CFO, Granules India

Thank you, Seth. Let me now take you through the top financial performance for the quarter. Revenue. The first quarter revenue was INR 1,020 crores as compared to INR 850 crores in Q1 of FY 2022, a growth of 20%. This growth is mainly caused by increase in the business across all regions and by our new launches in the U.S. region. Revenue share of non-core molecules stood at 18%, which is a percentage higher than the last year, which emphasizes our long-term strategy. The sales breakup as per the business verticals and regions are presented in our investors presentation, which is available on the website. Gross margin. Our gross margin as a percentage for Q1 contracted by 4.6% year over year, mainly due to pricing pressure in the U.S. and also increase in the cost of key starting materials, solvents and logistics.

EBITDA and EBITDA margin. EBITDA for the quarter was INR 212 crores as compared to INR 201 crores in the previous year. Same quarter had increase of 5% over the previous year, mainly on account of increase in business across various geographies. Our R&D spend for the quarter was INR 32 crores as compared to INR 27 crores in the same quarter of the previous year. We have taken a new premises for our R&D setup in Genome Valley and have moved into that new premises. With an increased focus in the R&D under Granules 2.0 strategy, our efforts around R&D would increase for sure. We have also just concluded purchase of certain assets of a small biotech company, which would increase our focus on fermentation and allied technologies. The purchase would increase our research capabilities around our technologies to the next notch. Net debt.

Our net debt was INR 613 crores as compared to INR 697 crores a quarter ago, which is a reduction of 2%. Mainly, the reduction is on account of the short-term debt. Cash to cash cycle. Our cash to cash cycle was at 144 days as compared to 138 days in the previous quarter. The increase of six days is mainly attributed to the planned inventory increase, which was required for new launches. Also, restatement of trade receivables has resulted in certain increase in the debtors also. Operating cash flow. Operating cash flow for the quarter was INR 181 crores as compared to INR 136 crores in the previous quarter. Higher operating profits and focus on working capital management contributed to the higher operating cash flow in the current year.

CapEx spend during the quarter was at INR 83 croress, and the free cash flow that we generated was at INR 98 croress. Our endeavor for the whole of the balance year, quarter by quarter, will be to make sure that we generate more cash and bring the debt situation down. With this, I will open the floor for questions. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Thank you. The first question is from the line of Krishn Mehta from Enam Holdings. Please go ahead.

Krish Mehta
Portfolio Manager, Enam Holdings

Hi. Thank you for taking my questions. I just had two questions. One was on aracetamol. If you could provide an update on the pricing and more on the end user pricing in terms of customers and how you spee this trend actually going forward.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

First of all, let me explain that our customers are all the top brands and also we also sell not only APIs and PFIs to the top brands, we also sell our tablets also to these people. We also have our GCH, Granules Consumer Health in the U.S., through which we sell different types of paracetamol tablets to all the chain stores like Walmarts and Targets and other people. Prices, I don't think we can share with you, but overall I can say the selling prices are likely to come down slowly along with reduction in costs, mainly due to the reduction, possible reduction in price of PAP. There will be a downward trend based on the price of PAP. However, there will always be a lag. It will not be in the same quarter.

We see that we'll be able to maintain our margins on all paracetamol products.

Krish Mehta
Portfolio Manager, Enam Holdings

Okay, thank you. My next question was on peptides. If you could provide like a similar, you know, guidance or outlook on how you see the pricing evolving going forward.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

On peptides, I think it's good that Ram answers this question.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Sorry, can you just elaborate which peptides you are talking about?

Krish Mehta
Portfolio Manager, Enam Holdings

I was asking more from a broader perspective in terms of the raw materials and input prices.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Oh, I thought it was peptides. I was wondering. On raw material pricing. Yeah, raw material pricing, at least the increase has stopped and they have stabilized, and we see some slow downward trend. Going forward, if nothing else happens or unexpected happens in the world, we definitely see prices coming down quarter-on-quarter and overall there's been improvement. Availability is no problem right now.

Krish Mehta
Portfolio Manager, Enam Holdings

Okay. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Reminder to all the participants, to ask a question, you may please press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Yogesh Tiwari from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead. Yogesh Tiwari, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Hello.

Operator

Yes, yes.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. One question on DCDA. If you can share some details regarding what will be the capacity for the DCDA and how will it contribute to the financials? What will be the cost savings and what is the requirement per unit of Metformin? If you can share some details on it and the timelines basically.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Okay. Let me start with capacity. We have the PLI sanction for 8,000 tons per annum, and we will start production at that level. Based on the overall situation in the international market, we will possibly double that production going forward. Pricing and the outlook with the imports coming in from China, we definitely believe we have a slightly better differentiated technology unlike what the Chinese use. We think we will be slightly cost competitive. But the main thing here is supply security rather than cost. Definitely, there's a little advantage which will add to the margins. Conversion coefficients, I think if that's what you have asked, yeah, it's less than one-to-one, much less than one-to-one.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

It is around 0.6, some back-of-the-envelope

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Well, let's not go into those details. I don't think this is the right forum to talk about that. By the way you're talking, I'm sure you know the answer.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Sure, sir. What would be like the contribution to the financials? What would be the savings like if any quantification can be done on those slides?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Sorry?

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

What would be the quantification on the financials? What would be the savings if on the cost basically because of this?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

It's pretty quite decent. That's all I can say. I mean, definitely possibly about more than INR 10 crores a year, but it will be quite decent. We will not be able to put a number today because the Chinese import practice also will keep changing. They may drop the prices or they may maintain the prices. It's a little uncertain, but overall there will be an improvement.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Lastly, sir, what would be the timeline like? When can we expect this and what would be the CapEx involved in this?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

CapEx would be possibly around INR 100 crores. The pilot studies are almost getting completed now. After that we'll be able to put an exact number. I can say around INR 100 crores and timelines could be two years from today. Less than two years from today.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Just extending on this CapEx question, this will be the part of our INR 300 crores CapEx for 2023, right?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

It will be part of that. Yeah.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

Okay, great. Secondly, sir, on the non-core business, it has been largely stable for three quarters, and we have good number of ANDAs which are already approved. If you could, you know, throw some color on that aspect. When do we see the non-core business picking up?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

It is picking up slowly. To share, we have seen that it is just a 1% increase, but it's picking up. What is also happening is on launches, you see that there will be few pricing pressures that are happening. Going forward, we are working on cost optimization of all these products. As you keep producing, the cost can be optimized. We will see a better market share as we go by. I cannot put any number on the table today, but definitely over the next four quarters, we'll see a very positive improvement.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

Got you. If you could just elaborate on this biotech asset in terms of the thought process and how do we see this over the next four to five years?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Okay. I think this is a question for Dr. K.V.S. Ram Rao. He'll answer.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Yeah.

The way we are looking at, and as I told in my previous calls and the current call, our one of the biggest focuses will be on the biotransformation and the enzymes. We have to build this basic capability of enzyme characterization and then the enzyme scale-up. That is where I think the asset that we have purchased will help us to get the competency and the capability into the organization. As a part of our strategy, I think this is a good synergy in terms of looking at products with biotransformation and chemistry innovation, and it is exactly in line with what we have been speaking about earlier.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

How much do you intend to invest, maybe like over the next 12 months in this segment?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Yes. In this segment, there are two types of investment, and we are working out on that. One is definitely the entire laboratory, pilot scale and all, and the second one is the fermentation, which is required to build. Right now we are working on it, but definitely it will be north of INR 75 crores.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

All put together, right?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

For biotech biofermentation.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

Out of that, how much you would have spent already on this?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

A little over 20.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

Again, this would be also part of your overall CapEx guidance of INR 300 croress?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Yes.

Tushar Manudhane
Research Analyst, Motilal Oswal Financial Services

All right. Thanks. That's it from my side. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Reminder to all the participants, to ask a question, you may please press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Pujit Shah from Congruence Advisors. Please go ahead.

Pujit Shah
Analyst, Congruence Advisors

Hello, sir. `Am I audible?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah, you are audible, Shah. Yes.

Pujit Shah
Analyst, Congruence Advisors

Sir, I just wanted to ask, from the previous only. On a broader picture, are we seeing the demand coming up for fermentation because has China been facing some issue related to pollution or something? How will the demand be ramping up for the fermentation process in India on a broader picture?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

I would not like to comment on the broader picture. The kind of strategy that we chose on the fermentation, I think, there will be a definite need for organizations to build their own capability because this is not available. Even if it is available, only in the form of the end product. Granules looks at this as a strategic area of focus on the fermentation, and its impact on global cost leadership on the molecules that we are looking at, rather than looking at this as a broader fermentation platform.

Pujit Shah
Analyst, Congruence Advisors

Okay, sir. My second question would be on the EBITDA margin, as we have seen that their EBITDA margin remains around 20-21% odd. Are we seeing the same trajectory going forward or like we are seeing any volume growth and that would be contributing to EBITDA margin? Like we are seeing the price erosion, but are we seeing any volume growth over there?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yes, we do see some growth, and we are also fairly confident that the EBITDA margin will be creeping up quarter-over-quarter. I mean, they may not go to 30% like we did two years ago, but definitely the margin will creep up and there will be an improvement quarter-over-quarter.

Pujit Shah
Analyst, Congruence Advisors

Okay, sir. My last question would be, you can say, on a historical basis, like, are we seeing a volume trajectory growth as the U.S. has been destocking and has been stabilizing the market and we have been seeing good traction in the coming quarters. Are we seeing a volume growth of 5%-6% or like less than it would be?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

There will definitely be a volume growth led by different geographies. U.S., there is a challenge, but Europe also we are quite, we are building, launching a few products in Europe. Overall, we will see a volume growth.

Pujit Shah
Analyst, Congruence Advisors

Okay, sir. That was my side. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Reminder to all the participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Srinivas P.V. from Encred. Please go ahead.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Go ahead, Srinivas P.V.

Operator

The current participant is moved out of the queue. We'd like to remind the participants to ask questions, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kapur, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Ashish Kapur, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.

Ashish Kapur
Individual advisor, Individual

Good morning, sir. Hello.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Good morning, Ashish.

Ashish Kapur
Individual advisor, Individual

Sir, regarding the buyback, just wanted to know that, will the promoters also be participating in it or, will it be only for the non-promoters?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah. Promoters also are going to participate. The option is for the promoters to participate. It's the decision of the promoters that will, we have to wait and see. Overall, I'd say promoters will be participating.

Ashish Kapur
Individual advisor, Individual

Sir, can you just give like a roadmap for like FY 2024, 2025 regarding our revenue growth? Can we be around 15%-20%, like year-on-year?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

You have seen our past record. We have been growing at a CAGR of 20%, and I don't see any issue in continuing that growth. The most important thing today, Ashish, is more than revenue growth and profit growth, we are focusing on cash. If you have seen what has happened in this quarter, current last quarter, we had a positive cash of INR 95 crores after our CapEx. We see this focus on cash leading better results in the coming quarters, and we definitely see a cash build-up as we go by. While revenues and profits grow at a certain rate, we see cash growing up in a little higher growth rate.

Yes, sir. One follow-up on this cash one, since our cash is also increasing, sir, can we see any future M&A from Granules like not just for the next two quarters, but like for one, two years, can we see some significant M&A activity?

Definitely, if there's a good opportunity that comes along with that synergy with our business and which will fit into our overall plans of Granules 2.0, we will be very, very, get into that. As of today, we are concentrating on all organic growth. We don't want to do an M&A just for the sake of M&A, but if something comes along, we definitely would like to do that. Also, I'd like to assure you, cash may not be a big issue if we have to do some M&A, M&As.

Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Reminder to all the participants to ask a question, you may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mehta from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

Good morning. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the MUPS facility. Can you give an update on the current status of this facility and the CapEx that we spent here? Also some color on the number of filings and the timelines for commencement of commercial supplies.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

The first one on the MUPS facility, I think we have already commercialized a couple of products and the revenue started to come in from the MUPS products. I think this is exactly in line with our CapEx and with the proposals that we have started on the MUPS. Regarding the approvals, I think we have a few products lined up for different ANDAs, and they are at different stages of approval. We hope to see that the regulatory review and other things happen quickly, and we should be in a position to see the launches of these products.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

All right. On the new DCDA capacity under the PLI scheme, how much of I-NSP capacity that you mentioned earlier, and how much of this will be for our captive requirements and how much of this will be for external supplies?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Ashish, Aditya, I think we did not get your question, but maybe.

Sorry.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

On, on.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

I'm sorry. Okay.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

On, on the, uh.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

If the capacity utilization is more than 50% and we are already having an asset turn of 0.1 time on the investment, right?

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

No, no, I'm talking about the DCDA facility.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

DCDA, yeah.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

That's coming up under the PLI scheme.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

What is the capacity that you mentioned, a figure previously? I missed that. How much of this will be used for our own requirement versus supplying externally?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

I got you. Today the 8,000-ton capacity is the end-use for our own internal requirements. If we increase the capacity, maybe we'll offer the product outside.

Aditya Mehta
Director, Spark Capital

Understood. Thank you very much.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinivas P.V. from Encred Analytics. Please go ahead.

Srinivas P.V.
Analyst, Encred Analytics

Sorry, earlier when I asked the question, my line got disconnected, so I couldn't hear the answer. I have got couple of more questions. Now, earlier you had spoken about, I think a year back or so, your three-year CapEx program of around 1,000 croress. Where do we stand right now under all these turmoil, changes, et cetera, that we have seen. You've given the number for FY 2023. What is the expectations over the next 36 months?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Last year, we said it's INR 22,000 crores. We spent INR 400 crores last year, and we said 1,000 crores over three years. There's still INR 600 crores to go. In the first quarter we spent about INR 84 crores or INR 82 crores. I think we will be doing the INR 600 crores in end of FY 2024.

Srinivas P.V.
Analyst, Encred Analytics

Okay. The question that I asked earlier was, you had mentioned about the steep increase in the freight charges, apart from the raw material increases, et cetera, price increases, which had resulted in margin pressures over the last few quarters. Now, to what extent is the correction that we have seen in raw material prices? I'm not asking for exact number, and the freight charges. Do you think the price pressure for the selling price pressure that you may see going forward will more than the correction in the freight charges as well as raw material charges?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

The freight charges have stabilized and have seen a slight downward trend. It's not gone down drastically, but a slight trend. The good news is it has at least stopped increasing. On the raw materials, prices are coming down slowly and we see about, I mean, just a few percentage points every quarter. We cannot anticipate anything, but definitely there's a downward trend. The margins should definitely improve a bit while the prices of raw materials are the same for competition. There will be a competitive approach to the customer, but definitely I see margins slightly improving.

Srinivas P.V.
Analyst, Encred Analytics

Okay, the final question is for Sandip. Sandip, why in your remarks you did mention about your roughly 2% reduction in borrowings or something. I couldn't really catch that. When I look at the net debt, net debt probably has come down to 0.72 or something from 1. So if you can also give in that investor presentation your balance sheet. You're not required to give it every quarter, but if you can give it in the presentation, it'll be great.

Sandip Neogi
CFO, Granules India

Okay. I'll look into the suggestion very positively. I definitely will provide some of the extracts of the balance sheet if that makes better sense. No problem.

Srinivas P.V.
Analyst, Encred Analytics

Thank you very much. All the best.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Punit Mittal from Global Core Capital Limited. Please go ahead.

Punit Mittal
Managing Director, Global Core Capital

Hi. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. Just one question. You have highlighted that you will focus more on cash flow and free cash flow. From your presentation, if you look at the last six years, though the revenue has increased, the free cash flow, cumulative free cash flow is negative INR 200 croress. Even though your profits have been about INR 1,800 croress. Plus your cash conversion cycle has kind of deteriorated or at the same level as March 2017. Can you give some more color on when you say you'll focus on cash conversion or free cash flows going forward?

If you can give some numbers also, how much cash flows are you targeting for the next two, three years, or what is the optimal conversion cycle that you're looking at? Thank you so much.

Sandip Neogi
CFO, Granules India

I take it. You're right that our focus was always to get into a situation where we balance between the debt and the cash that we are generating. The debt decision was always backed up by the competitive rate that we were able to achieve. If you see our interest cost, it was always under the control. Having said that, now the entire world is seeing upward trend in the interest rates, so therefore the conversion of cash is becoming more important and we are thinking of that as one of our strategy for this year onward. Therefore the endeavor that will be there is to make sure that we are utilizing the debt in a very, very judicious way. We will keep on reducing our long-term debt year by year.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

There will be an endeavor to generate enough cash by various inventory controlling measure. There's some of the decision and some of the negotiation that we have to do with our customers and vendors to ensure that there is a little bit of more cash that is getting generated in the system. That is what is important, is that I will be able to give you a frame that in every quarter now onward you will see that there will be a positive cash build up in the system.

Punit Mittal
Managing Director, Global Core Capital

Okay, got it. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Reminder to all the participants, to ask a question you may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Deepan Shankar Narayanan from TrustLine. Please go ahead.

Deepan Sankara Narayanan
VP Research, TrustLine

Good morning, everyone, and thanks a lot for the opportunity. Firstly, wanted to understand, are we planning to source more PAP from Indian suppliers? Do we foresee supply stability and the prices of PAP going down further?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah, we do, but our decision to buy depends on who is giving us the best price, who can give us a better supply security. Definitely we want to distribute it between all the manufacturers and subject to price, better share can be given to some of these people. We are already procuring from Indian manufacturers and we'll continue to do so.

Deepan Sankara Narayanan
VP Research, TrustLine

Are we satisfied with the quality of current PAP producers in India? Or you think it will take some more time for them to ramp up the capacity with adequate quality?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah, I can tell you very confidently, at least with one of the suppliers, we have worked closely together, helped them improve the quality, and the quality is quite satisfactory right now.

Deepan Sankara Narayanan
VP Research, TrustLine

Okay. Thanks a lot, Krishna Prasad Chigurupati.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Bohra from EMKE Group. Please go ahead.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Morning, everyone, and congratulations to the management for a good set of numbers. Firstly, I just want to understand, we mentioned the strategic build-up of inventory earlier in the call. If you can help us understand whether it is for an existing product, whether it is for a potential new launch and, you know, what kind of build-up have we seen over and above normal?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

It's for all products, Tushar. We have existing and also new launches. We need to pile up enough inventory before we launch the product. All the supply chain disruptions have caused us this build-up. One is the sailing time from here to the U.S., which used to be 23 days, 24 days, has gone up to 45 days, 50 days. That itself doubles the quantity on water. Uncertainties of material arrival in port, and once the material arrive in the U.S. port, the problem is getting it to the distribution warehouse. There's a shortage of containers even today in the U.S. Although international trades have and the availability of containers have improved, within the U.S. there's a problem, so just to overcome all this, we had to stock a lot of inventory for existing products and also new launches.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Got it, sir. Second, just an observation. Our, you know, share of Metformin in the overall revenue has trended down a bit, recently. Is there anything to read from this trend or you know how do we expect Metformin to pick up going forward?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Metformin will continue to have the same sales if not a little growth in U.S. We definitely see growth coming through from other geographies. We already have a very decent market share in the U.S., so I think rather than concentrating and pushing more into the U.S., we should concentrate on other geographies. We got an approval for U.K. and we are likely to get our approvals for Europe also for metformin shortly. We should be getting increased revenues from metformin.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

I meant, Metformin revenue share for our overall revenue, meaning, which is about 25%.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Overall revenue, overall products are also increasing, Tushar. The paracetamol is doing well. Ibuprofen is doing fairly okay, and other products are coming up. I think it should increase slightly, but.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Revenue will increase the percentages.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Oh, okay, Tushar. I have the numbers here value-wise, which has increased a little bit by INR 20 crores. As a percentage it's come down. That's what exactly I was saying. There's an increase in other products also. So as a percentage it may stay there or increase a little bit. But we see a lot of potential for paracetamol tablet launches in Europe going forward. So maybe for the time being it may stay there, but slowly there could be some incremental.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Right. Sir, if I may ask a couple of questions around the long-term strategy. One on the biotech side, you know, if we can understand what is the product strategy or what, you know, how we are intending to build up this space over the next, say, two to three years. Even on the longer term, what is the intended strategy regarding this new asset? Also on the oncology side, and regarding the new block, or is that block, if you can help us understand any progress on the CDMO/CMO front for onco and API products?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah. I think Dr. Ram will take that question.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

On the biotech side, the way we are looking at it is, we already have a good portfolio of the existing commercial products and also the new products where there is a possibility of doing a biotransformation which helps in three ways. The first one is to look at cost efficiency. The second one is to look at ESG. We also stated that Granules' focus on ESG as a strategic lever. I think it is always there and we have already started working on it. This will help us to move in that direction. The third one we are looking at is the future product portfolio where when you develop the products, I think this will be the first approach that we will take on the product development side.

I think we are already good with the portfolio of the products that we want to do and then how the enzymes and the biotech fermentation area that need to be built up as a capability, we have already started making our steps in that direction. We already got the R&D lab and the pilot scale fermentation done as a first step, and we will be going forward and looking at commercial production and utilization of this into our identified portfolio of the products, both from commercial as well as the future product development portfolio. Coming to the next, second question, I think we have already made good progress on the oncology CDMO side. We did have some contracts that have already been done and some products will be getting commercial today.

Already, we have commercial with one or two products, but that will be the intended focus as we move forward and would love to create that line of business in the next couple of quarters.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Thank you, sir. That's very helpful. Just if I may squeeze one last quickly. Where you highlighted cost management initiatives to, you know, improve the overall margin profile and also the cash flows. If you can highlight specific initiatives you're taking. On the business side, you know, despite a higher sales from paracetamol this quarter, our margins have improved, gross margins have improved. Is it fair to say that in paracetamol also we have bottomed out from a gross margin perspective?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Yeah. I think the specific initiatives that we are looking at, I think, as a part of our overall strategy, and we have already started implementing it in some of the areas, we are looking at the product level cost leadership at a global level. I think you see that directionally we are looking at that as a part of our overall EBITDA transformation journey we have taken. You will see some of these initiatives which will be focused on the EBITDA transformation going forward. That I think is already visible when we look at the EBITDA percentage improvement. We hope to see that, you know, along with the stabilized spike cost and the raw material costs that are likely to be either stable or go down as we see the indications.

I think the journey that we have started on a technical side on both R&D and manufacturing to really bring up the areas of focus which will enable us to drive the EBITDA transformation journey. I think these initiatives are already in place and we are also going to improve some of those initiatives going forward to enable us achieve the targets of the EBITDA which we have in our mind. That's the first one. On the paracetamol, I think, can you just clarify your question exactly on paracetamol, please?

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

It's just my understanding that paracetamol would probably be slightly lower margin product for us than the overall corporate margin. When we see a quarter-on-quarter improvement in gross margin for the company this quarter despite a higher paracetamol sale, is it fair to assume that the gross margins for paracetamol per se as a product have also bottomed out in the previous quarter? We are trending upwards in gross margin in paracetamol as well in addition to the overall business.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Last quarter apart, Tushar, as we sell more and more of tablets of paracetamol, the margins will improve positively. Like I said, we are launching paracetamol tablets in Europe, where there'll be a lot of value add in terms of margin also. It's not definitely bottomed out. There's still scope for improvement in margins for paracetamol.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Got it, sir. Just a clarification, but when you mentioned cost management programs, you're referring not to operational, but to actual product profile meaning yield improvement or something on the R&D side that is improving your cost structure for a specific product. Is that what we refer to in the cost management side?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

That's right. I think we are looking at several aspects of the product cost, and I think that is the initiative that we have certainly taken up as a part of R&D. Sandip, would you like to add?

Sandip Neogi
CFO, Granules India

Yeah. Tushar, apart from the initiative which is specific to a product, there are also overall initiatives that we are taking which was not there earlier. That is like various pressures wherever we are finding that there is an increasing change in the cost than we anticipated. There are other areas we are identifying where there is a scope of improvement and we are very judiciously working towards reducing the making the cost structure same or less at an overall year basis. Which is a pure transformation from the way we used to look at the things earlier. There are two ways approach. One is that product specific cost optimization efforts and then cost center specific cost center optimization approach also. These are the two things which will eventually improve the EBITDA.

Tushaar Vora
Managing Partner, EMKE Ventures

Got it, sir. Thank you so much. That's very helpful. I'll join back in, please.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of, Varun Pattani from Quant Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

Yeah. Hi, good morning. Just one question. With the planned CapEx.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Excuse me. Can you speak up, please? Your voice is feeble.

Operator

Yes. Yes. Varun, can you speak a little louder? We're unable to hear you.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

Yeah. Am I audible now?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Little more, louder will be better.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

My question was with the planned CapEx of INR 300 crores and INR 250 crores of buyback. What is the year-end net debt target that you are going to, you know, sort of achieve with the strong cash flow generations as well?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

We are sure that we are confident that the net debt position will come down. There will be a positive cash flow after all this expenditure. The net debt position will definitely come down. By how much is something that we cannot venture to say, but definitely there will be a reduction.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

Okay. You are planning to cut down on the long-term portion of the borrowings?

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

Long-term portion is very little. It's only INR 300 crores.

Sandip Neogi
CFO, Granules India

Up to INR 100 crores.

K.V.S. Ram Rao
Joint Managing Director and CEO, Granules India

It will keep coming down year-on-year by itself. You know, in two, three years there will be no long-term debt. Even today if you see our by the end of the year, our cash position on long-term debt will cancel themselves. What we'll have is only short-term debt. That also will possibly be there or come down a little bit.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

Okay. What gives you sort of confidence to, you know, have a better cash flow generation this year? Like, what has changed fundamentally?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

It's basically the inventory management which went haywire because of all the supply chain disruptions. That's going to slowly turn positive, number one. We also see improvement in reduction in receivable days. We are working with different customers to bring down the credit days, and we have already seen some positivity there, and we see more going forward.

Varun Pattani
Investment Analyst, Quant Mutual Fund

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogesh Tiwari from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Thank you, sir, for taking my question. Am I audible?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yes, you are audible, Yogesh.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Yes, sir. Actually I wanted to know some information on the regional revenues. If I look at Europe, for example, it looks like that Europe has increased by about 60% on a Y-o-Y basis because of the increase in paracetamol. Just wanted to understand what is the scenario over there and is it sustainable, this growth going forward?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Improved revenue share in Europe from 16% to 22.5%, that's what you're saying, right? Whether it is sustainable or not.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Yes, yes. On a Y-o-Y basis, if I multiply those proportions, I get about 60% increase in

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yeah, you are right. There will be more actually going forward in Europe because, as CMD was mentioning, and we have clearly mentioned that our next two years of focus market will be Europe, expansion in Latin America and South Africa also. That is the core product, so obviously there will be improvement in those geographies. As we go back to the core versus non-core, it will be like this, that the entire expansion will happen in terms of all the geographies, and then the percentage of the core will be gradually increasing to 19%-22%, 23%. That we are actually mentioning. That's how the strategy will work.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Sir, regarding, there were some recent news that there has been drop in PAP prices. Is there a big, you know, chance of an upside in margins for paracetamol going forward because of declining PAP prices?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

There will be a short-term upside, Yogesh. When prices fall, the customers also expect us to pass on the benefits. Like in the past, when prices were going up, they would not give us a price increase immediately, but over a period of time, there was always a lag. We were getting some increases. Here also with a lag, there will be a drop in prices. Overall margin we believe can actually improve it.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Yes, sir. Coming back to Europe, so this 60% growth, can we expect to a range of 50%-60% for the next few quarters for Europe?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

50%-60% of the total market, total revenue or?

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Growth.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Growth.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Expected 50%-60% Y-o-Y growth for the next few quarters for Europe.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

We have to see. We are having new launches that are coming up, very promising, but let's see how they perform. We'll be launching some products, possibly one or two products in this quarter itself, but otherwise definitely next quarter. Definitely there's going to be growth. How much, I won't be able to say today.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Sir, in terms of your U.S., how many launches are we planning for FY 2023 in U.S.?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Priyanka, would you like to take this?

Priyanka Chigurupati
Executive Director, Granules India

Sure. Good morning. We have about two to three launches that are still pending for the rest of the year. We'll be launching them this year, but we'll see the effect of the market share pickup only in the next year. You'll see some in Q4 and remaining in the next fiscal year.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Yes. In terms of U.S., I understand that we have grown our revenues by 18% on a Y-o-Y basis. If I am just assuming that with if there's a price erosion of 10% in the U.S. market, volumes would have increased by about 28%. Am I correct on those things?

Priyanka Chigurupati
Executive Director, Granules India

Volumes have certainly increased. Percentage-wise, I need to get back to you on that. Volumes have certainly increased, especially on our larger volume products.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Sure. On India business, it looks like there was a degrowth in India, if I you know just multiply the contribution. If you can share some light on the India business for the quarter compared to last same period last year.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Our objective was always to add value to our products, Yogesh. In India we only sell APIs. As we add value, and the PFIs and tablets are sold in other markets. For a period of time, unless we have new capacities of certain products coming in at surplus capacities, India business will be flat or possibly there'll be a little more degrowth. Definitely it's not going to grow. Even if it grows in the short term, it will slowly come back, unless India also becomes a big market for PFIs in future.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Sure, sir. Lastly on the LATAM market. LATAM, it looks like it, we increased by about 1% on a Y-o-Y basis. Since you told that the our focus would be on LATAM, I assume that that will grow, you know, exponentially in the coming quarters, the LATAM market.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Not in the coming quarters, Yogesh, but in coming years definitely because we have been the focus now is from PFIs to FD in LATAM, so that's going to take some time. We have made some filings. We've been filing some more. Over the years, definitely there's going to be growth. Definitely not in the next few quarters.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Can we expect lower single-digit growth in LATAM for this year?

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Yes, it's possible. Well, maybe 1% or so possible, but let's say it's going to be stable.

Yogesh Tiwari
Senior Research Analyst, Arihant Capital

Thank you sir for answering the questions. Thank you very much. That's all from me.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, this was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the CMD for the closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Krishna Prasad
Chairman and Managing Director, Granules India

Ladies and gentlemen, while I thank you all for participating in this call, let me conclude by saying, we have ended this quarter on a very positive note, and we are also positive that quarter-over-quarter we'll see some improvements, both in terms of profitability and also in terms of cash generation. We are also confident that we'll end the year on a very positive note in terms of cash. With this, ladies and gentlemen, I thank you once again for attending this call.

Operator

Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Granules India Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.

Powered by