Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Astra Microwave Products Limited Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. S.G. Reddy, Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, and good evening, everyone. A warm welcome to all the participants to the fourth quarter call of our company. I, with my colleagues, Mr. M.V. Reddy and Mr. Atim Kabra, and SGA, our investor relations advisors. The results and investors presentation for Q1 are uploaded on our company website and stock exchanges, and I hope you had a chance to look at it. In terms of the highlights, I'm happy to share with you that, Q1 FY 2024 is a good start to the financial year FY 2025, keeping in mind the seasonality pattern inherent to our business, wherein Q1 is the weakest quarter and the major chunk of revenues are captured in the subsequent part of the financial year.
We want to highlight that we have also improved our gross margin significantly, which were primarily driven by continuous improvement in the product mix, where the domestic defense business contributed to 65% of the top line, followed by exports, whose contribution around 21% and the space with 11.5%, with the rest of the business coming in from metrology and other sectors. This performance is in line with our expectations and guidance. Coming to our order book, we have crossed the milestone of INR 2,000 crore mark this time, where the standard standalone order book as of June 2024 stood at INR 2,099 crore, and our order wins continues to be healthy.
As guided in Q4 earnings call, we have booked about INR 3,002 crores of orders in this quarter, out of which INR 240 crores of orders are from defense industry. On a consolidated basis, our order book stood at INR 2,365 crores as of June 2024. Overall, our order book comprises of 88% of the domestic orders, which are largely BTS, which enjoys good margins and 12% of export, which is a mix of BTP and BTS business. Our consolidated order book consists of INR 120 crores worth of service orders, which are typically margin accretive. Our focus remains on getting more orders, which consists of high proportion of complex system projects. Coming to our standalone financial performance for Q4 FY 2024, we recorded a growth of 16% in our top line on year-on-year basis.
With a tilting towards the domestic business, our gross, gross margins have stuck at healthy 41.8%, recording a significant improvement on year-on-year basis. Employee expenses have slightly gone up because of the increase in the number of skilled and professional employees. This is mainly to our employee addition at our Bengaluru facility. At the end of the quarter, the employees count is close to about 1,537, up from 1,468 at the end of the financial year. EBITDA stood at INR 23 crore as against INR 5 crore in the same period of last year, and the margin stood at 15% as against the 3.50% of previous period. The company reported profit after tax of INR 5 crore and which was a loss of INR 4 crore at the corresponding period of last year.
The execution of space orders continues to be good, and more than 11% of revenue is coming from this segment. Export sales revenues was also in line with the previous quarter, remaining stable at a reasonable level of 21%. We are confident about the growth in the overall industry, as we believe that the government's objective has widened, and the implications of the Indian government's Atmanirbhar Bharat program extends beyond import substitution. It also provides Indian companies like Astra, which have expertise and engineering talent, with a platform on which to build global visibility and businesses. In line with this, we will continue to grow our capabilities strategically and achieve our targets step by step.
Lastly, for the current financial year, we maintain our target, which was given previously, for an order book in the range of about INR 1,200-INR 1,300 crore and a top line in the range of INR 1,000-INR 1,100 crore, with a profit margin to the tune of about 16%-18% on standalone basis. Now, I hand over to Mr. M.V. Reddy, followed by Atim Kabra, to share their thoughts.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. As we review first quarter of FY 2025, we are happy to say that we've started well with a positive trend, especially considering the orders booked in the first quarter and also opportunities emerging out in our business domain.
We have robust order book of INR 2,000 crore+ as on date, and seeing a good visibility of good trajectory in all verticals of business segments which are of the same focus area. With regard to the business highlights of Q1 FY 2025, we have had good development and production orders in radar and electronic warfare domain in the first quarter. Out of 303 gross orders booked, 80% are from domestic segment, constitutes of 36% of development contracts in nature and rest all in production. We made a breakthrough in replacing the imported critical wideband receiver for EW project, which DPSU has been using it, product of foreign make, and the DPSU has the production orders. Also, we bagged a Precision Approach Radar and repeat order of Doppler Weather Radars in this quarter.
Our anti-drone radar is ready for the deployment in the field, and we have been responding RFPs from various agencies. We hope to get few contracts in the last quarter of FY 2025. On the sales front, we had a significant improvement as compared to the last year first quarter, and we don't foresee any major challenges to meet our guidance of INR 1,000-1,100 crores for the current financial year. Despite of the current geopolitical situation, our JVC, ARC, doing fairly well. With the order book of $48 million and expecting to book another $10 million in next two quarters, ARC is expected to book revenue of $37-$38 million for FY 2025. We would like to reiterate that going forward, we have a good visibility to maintain sustainable growth with the opportunities emerging in the domain of our operations.
With this brief note, now I hand over to Mr. Atim Kabra to share his thoughts. He would be happy to answer your questions. Thank you.
Thanks, S.G. Thanks, M.V. and welcome, everybody. In our QIP documents and our ongoing investor interactions, we had indicated that we believe our growth story is going to be rear-ended. And as M.V. has just emphasized, and as he mentioned, our burgeoning order books actually point towards continuation of this trend, and the future looks quite positive. We are very comfortable, as reiterated, with our growth guidance of 18%-22% organic growth, which we have already shared with you. In addition, as we had mentioned last time, we have created a framework for growth beyond this organic growth and in the form of a leap strategy. Taken together, organic growth plus leap creates a momentum for some serious value creation for our shareholders over time.
Our focus, we had mentioned about a year back to you, was enhancing our ROEs, and I am sure you would have noticed that the ROE is around 14% now, with return on capital employed crossing 16%. We are now focusing more on efficient working capital management, and under the astute leadership of S.G. Reddy, we are quite confident that we will be managing our working capital deftly without diluting our shareholders for working capital. I specifically mentioned a long-term timeline, as research-led products require time to create IP and then time to commercializing the IP so created. As you very well know, we define ourselves to be in the IP business. We are in the business of creating IP, enhancing our IP, and that can be done both through our own internal efforts as well as collaborations.
But eventually, we are in the business of monetizing intellectual property. To put it very simply, IP, we believe, gives us the staying power and the moat, which is critical to competitive pricing, that shall allow us to stay, stay ahead in a very competitive arena and enable us to monetize our IP on an ongoing basis. So in today's session, I had a desire to bring into focus our efforts at IP, IP creation, enhancement, and monetization. So if you look back and step back for a second in time and look at the trajectory of growth at Astra, you will notice that the net turnover of the company has increased consistently over the last four years to more than INR 1,000 crore this year. If I'm not wrong, we were close to INR 426 odd crore in FY 2020.
The entire team at Astra has been scrambling to keep up with the sales growth and meet the enhanced order flows. The focus had been on completing the orders and then focusing on the next set of orders. So we have embarked on an exercise now aimed at filling out the IP, which has been created within the company and shelved to a large extent, which we can now either monetize on a standalone basis or combine it with the other IPs, which may be available within the company or externally available to create value. So to our surprise, we found that we had multiple products and technologies which had been created and then not acted upon any further post-order completion and had just been filed away as the teams got busy in fulfilling other orders.
So taken out of cold storage and updated with the current tech standards, we can productize these technologies on their own or combine them with other technologies, and that's a low-hanging fruit for us. The incremental efforts at making this tech viable and commercial is minimal and offers us an easy way to monetize our efforts. This exercise has been concurrent with identifying more project leaders within the company and ensuring that they share the vision which we are defining with you here. And again, I'm glad we took this effort and have identified some serious talent which resides within the company. The idea is, going forward, to empower these leaders and groom them into future project leaders with P&L responsibility eventually. Any organization, especially a tech and IP-driven organization like ours, is only as good as its people.
Last six months of the senior management time has been spent in identifying talent and working around strategies which will lay the foundations for sustained future growth delivered by our talented next generation talent pool. So these initiatives are hand in glove with our LEAP strategy. More project managers with a deep grounding in tech, with a deep grounding in company culture, not only lays the foundation for organic growth, but also helps us think outside the box on a collaborative effort which underpin our LEAP strategy. I'm glad to inform you that the base pillars of LEAP strategy, which were around financial effectiveness, productization, and lean and learn, implying a collaborative approach with external IP holders also, is well on its way to deliver results.
Glad to share that two definitive binding term sheets have been signed this past quarter alone, one in the area of chip design services and another in the radar space. While discussions have been initiated with multiple companies, both listed space as well as in the smaller unlisted space, for enhanced collaboration with the platform which Astra provides, to further enhance our joint intellectual property and create products which are well-suited for the future. We are also in a hurry to monetize things at the fastest possible pace, and collaborations are possibly one way to go about doing this. We aim to conclude a few such collaborative arrangements every quarter going forward, and that is one of the base premises of our LEAP Strategy.
To conclude, Astra will continue to build on its track record of delivering on its numbers, and we will, in all likelihood, achieve our targeted 18%-22% organic growth rate. And LEAP Strategy will--has the potential to deliver a further upside onto these numbers. The LEAP framework is very much in play, and definitive collaborative agreements have been signed with two partner companies. Many more are in the works. We are grooming our next generation of leaders with eventual responsibilities for project management, and P&L responsibility will be run through them. And multiple efforts are in place to lay the foundation for a sustained future growth to be led by our next younger generation. So with this, let's open it up for question answers, please.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have three questions. The first one is essentially, if I look at, not year-over-year, but quarter-over-quarter for mix in revenue. So our domestic percentage has gone up, export has come down, but still we find that EBITDA margin has gone down compared to Q4. So if you could just highlight what caused this, whether it is execution of some low margin orders in this particular quarter, and how do we see this trajectory going ahead?
Yeah, Amit, complete your questions.
Okay. The second question is on essentially very interesting thing that you highlighted on anti-drone radar. So are we limiting ourselves only to radar, or there could be a soft kill and hard kill mechanism also? And what kind of opportunity are we seeing by end of let us say FY 2025? The third question is that recently there was a media article suggesting that we have executed AAAU for the shipborne radar. So just wanted to understand the opportunity size of this and when we would be able to commercialize this.
Okay, Amit, I'll take the first question. The remaining two, Mr. M.V. Reddy will take. It is very difficult to pinpoint exactly why this. I have to really look at each individual product sale that has happened in the corresponding quarters to exactly answer your question. But otherwise, I would say that, in general, to a large extent, about 90%, the margin variance comes in only because of the product mix. Specifically, to answer your question, probably I have to dig a little deeper and come back. I will not be able to answer right now. Yeah, Mr. Amit, regarding your second question about the anti-drone system.
Yes, we are working on the soft kill anti-drone system, but as a part of that, we have completed the radar development portion, and we have released to the market, as few customers are asking for only the radar portion. And also the soft kill system is on the way. I think maybe another few months, we'll be in a position to complete development of entire anti-drone system with the jammer. As far as hard kill is concerned, we are exploring that option, but we are yet to, you know, decide on that particular portion. Regarding the third question, as far as the value of SDR, which we backed from DRDO and executed in the last year, and this year, we are going to commission it in the navy.
Yes, there are good number of opportunities there for this. What we heard from the customers and the navy that we are looking for minimum 2-3 more in next 2 years time frame. So this is what we heard from them, but unless we get RFP on hand, it's difficult to commit anything on that front. Thank you.
So, given the, you know, the opportunity size, the new system that we have, ADS and all, so what kind of order inflow could we expect, not for this year, I mean, but for over the next three years, let us say, if you were to give a simulated number on the basis of platforms we are involved, et cetera?
Yeah. Actually, we have already responded few RFPs, and the current year, the RFPs what we have responded, or we are expecting to be received, the order of at least about INR 500 crores. But since we are in competition, we are not sure how much we are going to grab from that particular segment. But actually, these are few inquiries which we are expecting from services that will have a large size of for business. For that, we are getting prepared ourselves to make full, complete system.
Okay. All right. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Hiren Ved, from Alchemy Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. My name is Hiren, and thanks for taking my question. You know, Mr. Atim Kabra mentioned about the LEAP strategy, and I want to extend this a little bit further, that given our size, which is, you know, just about INR 1,000 crore this year, as per our guidance, what stops us from growing at, let's say, 30%-40%, right? Is it the lack of external opportunity, or are we too narrowly focusing on radars and certain segments of the defense industry? And secondly, it's the right thing to do, which is to invest in IP, but that requires serious capital. So how much money are you planning to spend on IP over the next couple of years?
Why can't we aspire to have margins which are upwards of 20%-25% if we have our own IP? Thanks.
I'll answer this one. Let me take the IP question first, right? Okay. The IP... Astra, think of Astra as a platform for a second, right? We have a track record, we have the capability set, we have the marketing ability, et cetera, which has been there, and it's only now that we are opening it up from an IP acquisition, IP collaboration point of view. You know, we spoke about, you know, there are products, and personally I cannot go into details of these products, but there are products which are being contemplated, where, let's say, if we had the capability to make the radar, right? Then can we add in the next logical step, which has to be taken in the battlefield, if an incoming threat is detected by the radar, right? Can my system alone do it?
I may not have the necessary IP for that. Okay? But do I create it from scratch? Do I reinvent the wheel, or do I collaborate with somebody who has the IP and create a better product, and combine our resources and create a product? It may not necessarily require oodles of capital to do so, by the way, right? Because it is equally in the interest of the other party also, they're our collaborators, to commercialize the products. As I mentioned, two transactions have been done, and they will result in significant IP accretion over a period of time for Astra. We are, we are not really spending much on these acquisitions, on these IP collaborations, I'm trying to say. So I would de-link, you know, IP from owning the IP exclusively, but would rather focus on more collaborative approach.
That's for contributing a lot towards commercializing and taking the lead in creating products out of it. Which is, which also links in with your earlier question. We, you know, if you look at our history, you know, we were quite small, and we have, we have crossed, we will cross INR 1,000 crore this year itself. And our focus has been to productionize the orders which have been coming in, okay? Productionization of existing orders coming in and keeping pace with the growth in a way did not give us the leeway or the time required or the effort required to productionize, to, sorry, to productize. So productionization versus productization, okay? Which is our focus going forward.
So if you see organic, when we talk of organic growth, organic growth is coming in from our regular productionization of the order flows, which is coming in. But now, given our size, and as you very rightly said, we have the size now, okay, where we can offer ourselves as a platform, and that will allow us to focus on products, which, on a recurring basis, when they sell, gives us the kind of margin expansion and sales expansion which we are looking for. And that's where, probably, the surprise which we speak about on account of a LEAP strategy will come in. But let's wait for the time. Let the numbers reflect what we are saying. So right now, we focus on when we give you the guidance, we focus on the productionization of the order, orders.
I hope I'm answering your, I've answered your questions.
Yes, yes. I have one more last question, that we have seen that, you know, in, in many different companies, the supply chain is becoming a big constraint. And, you know, are we working on, seeing that, you know, we are not constrained in terms of productionizing because of supply chain issues and creating enough, you know, other sources? It's something that, you know, we've seen with a lot of other players in the industry, and, we just wanted to have your views on how you guys are thinking about this constraint.
I don't think we are expecting any serious supply chain constraints. Well, I guess, given the size, given our management focus on the productionization front, I think we are fairly well set on, you know, in this particular area. Where we see constraints are on the evolving technology, where manpower is trained manpower is hard to come by for the next gen of products, where we need to leapfrog into. So to answer your question, we are fairly well apprised of the supply chain challenges, and therefore, resilience is being built into the system. Of course, you know, if you have external events like sanctions and all, that's a completely separate game. But other than that, we don't significantly see any supply chain challenges.
Just to add, to Mr. Atim, so basically, we import, electronic components and, of course, few complex, PCBs, from abroad, but otherwise, the rest all, like, you know, we are resourcing out from indigenization. And also, I would like to highlight one point here is, we do ourselves, we have strategic components as we design, and we get it fabricated, like MMICs and all. So these are all components which usually will have a serious impact based on the geo-global political situation. So that's something which, in fact, is advantage to us, that all these strategic components, we have, within our control. Otherwise, usually, we don't have any supply chain issues for general electronic components or PCBs.
Actually, this is a very important point, and when you talk about competition, probably you should consider the fact that we have a very significant net block, which has been created. Okay? So the capabilities have been created upfront, and now is the time to reap the benefits from the investments which have been made over the last so many years into the company. So, you know, our return ratios were not looking good because the investments have been made upfront. And now, as production scales up, you will see our ratios are, you know, it is proof is in the proof. Proof of, proof is there with the video, right? Our ratios are improving significantly.
Okay, thanks so much, and all the best.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press Star and One to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Kuljit Singh from Mount Intra Finance Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Good evening. I just have one question about the Tejas delay. So we are hearing a couple of things that, firstly, because of the GE engines, the Tejas is getting delayed. And secondly, also the Israeli company is unable to provide the AESA radar. So our company has been supplying AAAU for the ASR. So how do we see these two situation? It looks like a risk because of the delay, at the same time, opportunity when we see the Israeli company unable to supply. Can you comment on this, sir?
Yeah. On the first part of your question regarding the supply issue of GE engine. Of course, we are not authorized to comment on that, but yes, we also heard about this. There were some issues, but also we understand from the customers that they have been making alternate arrangements. And I don't think they can put any, you know, delay factor as far as the other orders are concerned. In fact, the Uttam radar, whatever has been planned, the discussions are going very actively, and maybe in the next 3-4 months timeframe, we should be in a position to, you know, get the first contract. So, that is, all the discussions are going on.
So we don't see any major delays, but though there is a slight delay and all, but we don't see any major, you know, issues as far as that particular part is concerned. Then second is, regarding the other, you know, imported radar which is not functioning, that also, again, we are not authorized to comment on that. But yes, you know, that is something which, you know, the DRDO is trying to push as early as possible to, you know, to HAL, and probably we may get more quantity in case if Israel cannot supply this particular radar. So we are geared up as far as Astra is concerned, we are geared up to produce in numbers. In fact, we enhanced our facility.
Recently, we have added auto bonding facility by virtue of which, in fact, our subsystems, that is the TR module of those radars, we can produce manifold, in sense about 20 times than what we made it with semi-automatic facility. So that way, we have enhanced our infrastructure. We scaled up our capacity. We are geared up to manufacture as many as numbers as they want.
Thank you, sir. Thank you for your response.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Ketan Gandhi, from Gandhi Securities and Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi, there. Just, two couple of questions. One, I just missed, did you give any guidance for the order intake for this year?
Yeah, we have given.
Can you please repeat? I just missed it. I'm sorry.
In the range of INR 1,200 crore-INR 1,300 crore.
Okay, great. And sir, do you want to share any update on Manpack SDR?
Yeah, actually, the flight, the final test, they're planning to conduct sometime in mid-October. I think rest all the procedures have been through. I think may mostly by mid-October, we will have a, you know, field test. So once after that test, we will come to know, you know, overall will remain in the free.
Any final... I mean, total how many final contenders for this? Last time you mentioned about three. Is it the same or any changes?
Yeah. As of now, it's three.
Okay. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Just wanted to know, what are the top five programs that may would be critical for the company for the next two years in terms of order book?
We didn't get you. Can you repeat again your question?
My question is, what are the top five programs that would be critical for our order book accretion and revenue growth in the next two years?
Yeah, there are many projects. As you know, we have been addressing, you know, radar and electronic warfare domain. Especially if you take in the radar, you know, we have been addressing airborne radar and also the ground radars, shipborne radars in all three segments. Like airborne radars, we have been working for AEW&C Mark 1, Mark 1A, and also we are waiting for the RFPs for Mark 2. Similarly, like LCA Mark 1A, we are already there, and we will be addressing Mark 2. So there are many opportunities are coming out. Similarly, there is Su-30 opportunities also will come. Of course, these are all in competition, so we have to wait and see how many we win in that.
Similarly, like, in the ground segment, there are many radars like, we are talking about Kusha, like we have some Akash-NG, Akash Prime, WLR repeat orders, you know, these are all which, customers, DPSUs are likely to get. So we will be getting subsystems from there, those particular segments. And, shipborne, navy, as I said, you know, we are likely to get some repeat orders, from navy. So these are all some of the opportunities in as far as the radars are concerned. And in electronic warfare, we've been working for, pod jammers for LCA Mk1, and as well as we have been working on the ongoing, production programs of, the, like in Shakti, Himshakti, and all these programs we are there....
And also we are there in the EW programs of, you know, then like, the D-118, R-118. So on these programs, we have some orders on hand, and we are likely to get more orders, repeat orders, on this, you know, from these customers.
Okay. But anything which comes to your mind that we like, for example, we have this Uttam radar. So any large order that you think you are assured that you suggest a delay of the RFP?
Yeah, actually, see, the mandate is clear. Yes, Air Force, I mean, like, you know, HAL is planning to take some quantity in the first phase. Exact quantity will come to know in couple of months' time frame, but yes, CEMILAC has already given clearance for 12 numbers, 2 for the first phase, and then thereafterward, they'll induct more and more. And going forward, yes, there is a, you know, as you know, all of you know, this 197 numbers more also, the win is in clear. So once they get, HAL gets contract, probably they will start working on that also. So we are hoping to get more quantity from MARk 1 itself.
Okay, last question. So what is, what is causing a delay in the entire, in product?
Yeah, actually, you know, the customer, you know, DRDO is working on the configuration part. I think, this, what we understand that, you know, they are working on this configuration. Once they complete, they'll be floating RFPs, and once they've, is in the competitive mode, so we'll be competing on that.
Okay, but any, any thoughts on when you see this scale up happening?
The scale up of?
The Virupaksha. Any thoughts on when you see this?
The first contract itself, but, you know, from DRDO, I think probably we are expecting RFPs mostly by next quarter.
Okay. Last question on the Akash missile, and BDL has also put an RFP for manufacturing facility. So, and what we thought was, you were one of the sole suppliers of that. So any comments on how it will impact you?
No, BDL has been set up the facility and manufacturing is the gimbal. I think it's, you know, understand better. I think it is gimbal seekers. But no, what we are working is totally different. We are working on AESA seekers, and in that, we got a few development contracts from DRDO. In one particular frequency band, we have already delivered, and we are expecting some small repeat order also. And other band, we are, you know, trying to complete it by this month end. So we are working in a totally different technology as far as seekers are concerned. The other technology with, you know, BDL and, you know, other companies, are working on that. Those seekers also, we have the RF components.
We have been supplying to DPSUs and, you know, other companies.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants that you may press Star and One to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rupesh Tatia from Intelsense Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question, sir, is with respect to Uttam Radar. In this, we only supply antenna units or, or we supply other components as well?
We supply active antenna array unit, complete antenna unit. Other parts, there are two, three more companies who are being supplying a small portion of it. But, the 70, 70% of the radar cost, you know, is supposed to be antenna unit only.
That is exclusively supplied by us?
As of now, yes, we are exclusively.
As of right now.
Yeah.
Sir, I mean, what would be the value per radar package?
No, I don't want to go more specific into the radar cost and all, because this is an open conversation. I wanted to maintain confidentiality part.
Okay. And so then what would be opportunity size? I mean, Uttam will be used in, I think, Tejas from 28 aircraft onwards. And then would it be also used in, you know, Sukhoi or Dornier upgrades as well? What is the opportunity size for Uttam radar?
Well, in fact, we are expecting around, close to, like, INR 1,100 crore-INR 200 crore worth of business from the Uttam radar, in the next 3-4 years' time frame.
But it, it would be used in all these programs, sir? Tejas, Sukhoi, Dornier, or, or only in Tejas?
I'm not talking about Sukhoi. Sukhoi is a different one. I'm not talking, discussing about Sukhoi. Only LCA Mark One main type considered, more on, you know, phase two also. Phase one and phase two put together.
Okay. Okay, so LCA only, phase 1 and phase 2, it is INR 1,100 crore opportunity.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Second question, sir, is on Ashwini Radar. Are we involved in that program in there?
Yes, we also bid for that. You know, we are in competition, and I think, you know, process is going on, so beyond that, we don't want to give any information. So yes, we are participating in that program.
So, when is the result expected of that tender, Ashwini Radar? And then would... I mean, what components would we be supplying, and what would be, I mean, would it be significant to our size, the order size?
... Since this is a tender and RFP, and in a competitive tender, I do not want to disclose more details about this.
We supply all the components or only one or two components?
That is what I'm saying. We, we do not want to, discuss anything beyond that.
Okay. Okay.
Please appreciate that fact, you know, this is a competitive tender.
I see. I see. Also, the next question, sir, we—I think we have a patent with, I think one of the labs for Netra primary radar. So, and I think some order is expected in Netra or order is received. I'm not clear. So can you maybe talk about what kind of commercial orders are expected in Netra, and then will we supply only primary radar or some other components as well?
In Netra, we are talking about Mark One, AWACS Mark One?
Yeah, yeah, Mark one.
We supplied, yeah, we supplied subsystems of primary radar. We have already supplied, you know, a few years back, and we are getting some repeat contracts for maintenance and also, you know, for one more aircraft, I think. So we have orders on hand, and also we are likely to get some for the space.
So, so Netra, sir, there is no, like, active order. I, I thought there was an order for some 11, electronic-
Order, and, is under execution in this quarter. In Q2, we are going to execute that.
Okay. And for this Samudrika program, there are, I think, total seven-
Sir, to interrupt you, sir. May we request that you return to the question queue, follow-up questions?
Yeah. Okay.
As there are several participants.
Okay.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participants. The next question is from the line of Ravindra Shah, from RSH Investments. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Sush. Thank you so much for providing the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions. The first question is, can you please elaborate a bit on your Bengaluru facility? Like, for which business this facility will be dedicated, domestic defense, space or other business segments?
Originally, we have created the facility for our systems integration and testing, especially in the radar and electronic warfare domain. And we have built up an NFTR facility also, and also assembly hangars to handle and address the radar systems. And also, we have created a space division in the Bengaluru facility. We have incorporated a 100% subsidiary unit, Astra Space Technologies Limited, and that group is basically going to address all the future satellite requirements. And, they are also working in the same facility. We have created the infrastructure to meet the particular requirements.
Okay. Okay, got it. And what kind of opportunities do we foresee in the global space business on the BDF side?
Actually, we are focusing more in the Indian market as of today. We would like to, you know, address this Indian market and then wanted to address the global market. Yes, opportunities are there. Opportunity is very large, as far as this space segment is concerned, so that is the reason why we are investing into this particular sector. And we are planning to enhance our operations in this particular segment. But to precise figures and all, we don't have as much as far as the global business is concerned, but for Indian, yes, we have a figure. Based on that, we worked out our business model.
Okay, okay. That's it from my side. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Keshav Harlalka from BHH Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for an excellent set of numbers. So, am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yes, sir. Yes. So I just wanted to know about the seasonality of margins and revenues and profits. So we did a EBITDA margin of 15.5% for Q1 of FY 2025, versus 2.3% for Q1 of FY 2024. And for Q4 of FY 2024, we did a margin of 22.8% versus year on year margin of 12.2%. So can you comment on the seasonality of margins, sir?
See, basically, we have used the word seasonality because, even as a top line, it, most of the top line, happens in Q3 and Q4, and since the margins are directly related to the top line, we have used the word seasonality of the margins. Then again, answering the specific question, in terms of the margins, what you have indicated, which I already answered earlier. Essentially, you know, it all depends on the product mix. Suppose if I have, a major defense product being sold in a particular period, probably my margins will be much higher than the previous, quarter, where the sales would have been more towards the exports. So generally, the product, the margins are directly related to the product mix. And hence, you know, we have, we see the health of the margins is indicated.
Got it. Now, can we have some band or you can't, cannot predict the band? Would it be within 15%-25% is what one could expect, or you don't want to pass any comment on this?
No, I can give an indicated gross margin. It will be below that. I do not want to get down.
Okay.
The gross margin generally around 40-45% will be there. If my overall defense, I mean, domestic mix is in excess of 70% in any particular period.
Got it. Got it. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants that you may press Star and One to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Nishit Shah from RSH Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So, I have one question. What kind of margins does the space business comes with, and is it same as the domestic defense orders, or is it better than that?
More or less, we carry the same margins between space and defense.
Okay. Okay, sir. That answers my question. Thank you for the opportunity.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will, we will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing remarks.
Thank you everyone for attending and, sharing your thoughts. I hope we have answered all your questions, and look forward to meet you again at the end of Q2. Thank you very much, and good evening.
Thank you.
Thank you, guys. Bye-bye.
On behalf of Astra Microwave Products Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.