Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Astra Microwave Products Ltd. Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. I now hand the conference over to Mr. S. G. Reddy, Managing Director. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sagar. Good afternoon, everyone. A warm welcome to all the participants for the post-QIP signing call of our company. I'm with my colleague, Mr. M.V. Reddy, and Mr. Atim Kabra, and SGA, our investor relations advisors. The results and investors' presentations for Q3 and nine months ended are uploaded on our company website and stock exchanges. I hope you had an opportunity to look at it. To begin with, I would like to take a minute and talk about macro-industry level trends. As we all have witnessed, there has been a remarkable upward trend in the defense industry which is fueled by the heightened government spending. The prevailing geopolitical environment and the commitment to fostering self-reliance and increasing exports has become the major driving force behind this growth.
Correspondingly, the Union Budget presented by the finance minister last week allocated 13% of the budget amount, amounting to about INR 6.21 billion, to the Ministry of Defence for the fiscal 2024-2025. This is the highest budget allocation among all the ministries, showcasing the importance placed by the government on strengthening our nation's defense capabilities. This further generates a multitude of new projects to equip our armed forces with the cutting-edge and sophisticated technology, lethal weapons, fighter aircraft, ships, platforms, unmanned aerial vehicles, drones, and other specialist vehicles, and also to upgrade and modernize the existing aircraft. Further, DRDO is lending extensive support to the industry to make India a net defense exporter. Transfer of technology is a key initiative in this direction. In this backdrop, Astra is strategically positioned to capture a large part of this growing opportunity.
Our organization is equipped with capabilities, deep domain expertise, years of invaluable experience, and an unwavering commitment to research and development coupled with our robust strategic framework. We are in a position at an advantage to explore and excel in the emerging opportunities. To get into the specifics, during the quarter, I'm pleased to share with you that we have reported a good set of numbers for the quarter with the highest quarterly EBITDA and PAT. Our top lines stood at about INR 230 crore with 5% year-on-year growth as indicated in our previous guidance. Additionally, EBITDA margins came in at a healthy 29.1% and PAT margins surged up to 18.3%. During the quarter, our Domestic business contributed to about 80% of the top line. Further, within the Domestic business, defense sales contributed to 72% of the top line.
As a result, we have seen the surging gross margins flowing through EBITDA margins. Coming to our order book, our order book continues to be healthy. We have booked orders worth about INR 256 crores during the quarter with overall order book standing at INR 1,813 crores, implying book-to-bill at 2.24 times. Wish to inform you that during the quarter, the company has responded to RFPs worth about INR 155 crores and expects to book orders worth about INR 200+ crores in Q4. With this, we should be able to achieve or surpass our order book guidance for the year. In terms of the sales, we should be able to achieve around INR 860 crores-INR 890 crores for the whole year as against a target of INR 900+ crores. However, we should be able to cross the bottom-line target in terms of the PBT.
We are happy to inform you that we have a significant contribution in Akash-NG which was successfully tested during the quarter. This has the potential to give a steady revenue for the company in the coming future. We are also happy to inform you that the company has decided to further expand its business in Space segments by foraying into satellite integration, testing, and launch its own next satellite in the next couple of years. Facilities for the same will be built at our existing Bangalore unit, and we have budgeted to spend about INR 40 crore in the next three years. For the coming year, we target to achieve about INR 1,300 crore of order booking, a top line in the range of about INR 1,000-INR 1,100 crore with a PBT in the range of 16%-18%.
With these remarks, now I hand it over to my colleague, Mr. M.V. Reddy, to share his thoughts, and later on to Mr. Atim Kabra. Thank you.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. As Mr. Reddy had mentioned, our overall performance in Q3 was at par with the guidance given in the previous quarter-ending call. We have booked INR 256 crores worth of orders in last quarter. It is Q3, which constitutes INR 161 crores from Domestic segment and INR 95 crores export orders. In Domestic market, we bagged INR 136 crores from Radar, which is our main focus area, INR 16 crores from EW and Defense Communication segment, and INR 9 crores from Space and Meteorology sector. Also, pleased to inform that we won close to INR 66 crores worth of development contracts from various DRDO and ISRO labs.
Overall, we have booked INR 830 crore in FY 2024 as on December 31st , and that results to be close to the INR 1,813 crore as the total overall order book as of December 31st and expect to book a minimum of INR 230 crore less in the current quarter. We have bright visibility to book INR 1,300 crore worth of orders in FY 2025. Majority of them are production orders from Domestic segment. As regard to sales, except a couple of R&D projects which we slipped out of production in the last quarter, we have ramped up our Domestic sales and will further get improved in coming quarters to achieve INR 1,000 crore-plus landmark in FY 2025. We are also delighted to inform that our JV company, ARC, has recorded splendid performance both in terms of order book as well as sales.
With INR 395 crores orders booked in the current year, our ARC has a backlog of INR 547 crores as on December 31st, 2023. Also, we could register sales of INR 150 crores in a nine-month period and planning to book INR 92 crores revenue in Q4. We have clear visibility to book INR 900 crores+ orders in the next three quarters. Going forward, we have a very good visibility to maintain sustainable growth with the opportunities emerging in the domain of our operations. That's all from my side. We would like to be. We're happy to answer your questions. Now I'll hand over to Mr. Atim Kabra to share his thoughts. Thank you.
Thanks, M.V.. Good afternoon, everybody. I will start with an observation. The legacy of the Second World War, which ended nearly 80 years ago, still defines the strategic vision of wars, though it is being seriously rewritten as war is increasingly being shaped by technology. And that's where we fit in. And within that unmanned and within this overall space, the unmanned weapons system, they have changed the very paradigm of how wars were fought. With the new unmanned weapons systems being very cheap and highly effective, with delivery mechanisms ranging from the vehicles to the skies to the seas, and they allow not only real-time intelligence but also adjustments to fire around the clock without pause, with high precision while striking both in the front line as well as behind the enemy line.
Now, if I combine this capability with digital field creation, radio electronics, environmental controls, and cyber assets, basically, technology-driven war is reinforcing superiority over traditional ways of warfare. In our opinion, countering these unmanned systems will be a big opportunity on a global scale. Astra is very hopeful of demonstrating its first anti-drone system next quarter. We are taking a systems-integrated approach here with key features being incorporated. With key features being incorporated, I would say around our main capability, which is identifying and tracking based radar. Work is already on within the company for the next version of the anti-drone systems with much upgraded feature sets. So we hope that this capability will be a big driver for Astra going forward. Beyond the skies, as S.G. mentioned, we expect space to be equally critical in times of wars as well as in times of peace.
Communication payloads, signal controls, reconnaissance capabilities, high-end optics, hyperspectral cameras, they will all find uses in agriculture, internet penetration on a wider scale, effective communications, remote sensing, as well as warfare. So nano-satellites with custom usage to micro and large satellites will be a big market at scale. As S.G. mentioned, I'm glad to share that Astra's board has decided to focus on satellite space in a significant manner. As you're already aware, Astra has a sizable order book in the Space segment, and we have been providing a significant portion of communication systems used in our RISAT satellites. We intend to offer complete satellite systems right from, hopefully, the design capabilities to satellite bus to the command, control, payloads, all under one roof. And as we speak, we are being joined by senior, experienced professionals who have been involved in satellite building since long.
We intend partnering with companies, both local and overseas, offering supplementary skill sets and intend being a one-stop shop for all things satellites. Towards this, capital gifts have been allocated, and a new 100%-owned subsidiary has been incorporated, Astra Space Technologies Limited. We expect this new business line to start contributing to our numbers in a span of two years plus. We will share more as the plans are to slide further. Personally speaking, we are all very excited by the growth prospects and our ability to be a significant player in the space space building on top of our capabilities. Quickly touching upon a few other initiatives taking concrete shape at this point in time, we have identified a few potential acquisitions that will fill the gaps in our skill portfolio and augment our capability to emerge as a systems entity.
We hope to consummate the first-class transaction over the next few months. So please watch this space for some more news on this area. The other area for growth where we intend building up significantly on our core capabilities is our in-house MMIC division. As you are well aware, Astra is one of the few companies that has in-house MMIC design capabilities, which have helped us innovate and build newer products with newer and different form factors. We intend scaling up this business line significantly in the global marketplace by leveraging our MMIC design capabilities. We are also evaluating our various ongoing next-generation initiatives in line with their CapEx requirements and the timeline needed to translate the efforts into meaningful numbers that can positively impact our bottom line. And this is an ongoing process, but it has taken slightly more vigorous shape at this point in time.
Efforts are being made to look at these programs where the bottom line impact can be very tangible in a defined time frame and prioritize a few programs while others will see a pushback unless we can quantify their impact on our profitability in a defined time frame. Lastly, all this vision and growth as exhibited in the numbers will not be possible without the wholesale participation of the entire Astra family. Efforts are being devoted towards training our workforce, upskilling them, equipping them with newer skill sets, and ensuring that Astra becomes a place where the professional vision of our employees finds fulfillment in an environment that challenges the employees to reach newer heights and also provides them the platform to deliver on their vision. We can address these issues in detail as we go about, but happy to hand it over back to the floor.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have two questions. The first one is on the EBITDA margin in this quarter. So if I look at EBITDA margin, it is very healthy, possibly the highest EBITDA margin ever. Now, it has a very low proportion of exports, like only at 20%. And of course, the Space execution has picked up significantly in this quarter. So just wanted to get an understanding of what is the proportion of exports that we can expect in FY 2025. Will it be closer to 20, 30, or I mean, higher than that? And also the Space execution, if you could highlight. That is the first question.
Yeah, you have a second question, or you want us to answer this?
No, I have the second question. I can ask it together. So, in the last call, you indicated that the final trials of SDR are scheduled in January and February. So just wanted to get an update on that. These are the two questions.
SDR.
I think the final trials of SDR, I think, push on to June, July. But things are moving positively. Coming back to the first question, in terms of proportion of export sales in the next year projections, I think export sales will be close to about 20%-25%.
Okay. So that means this kind of margin that we have made this quarter, 28%-28.5% or something, that margin could be maintained, or we should expect it to come down a bit?
We should be able to maintain in a one-year cycle. Quarter- on- quarter, I do not want to comment, but we should be able to maintain on a yearly basis.
No, I'm asking only on a yearly basis. So we should be able to maintain?
Yeah, you should be able to maintain. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Just wanted to know on the Sukhoi upgrade, what is the status and how? Yeah, just wanted to know that.
Can you please repeat? We are not able to get your question.
The question is on this Sukhoi Su-30MKI upgrade. What is the status of the government and again, how many players are competing for that?
Yeah. No, in fact, the status is the same as what we mentioned in the earnings call, that the upgrades in the DRDO is planning to upgrade both Radar and EW suite. Towards that, they started releasing some subsystems in EW suite, various in Radar. They're to finalize the configuration. Hopefully, they finalize in the next couple of months' time frame. And once they get these things, probably they will start floating tenders.
Okay. But sir, has the radar supplier been confirmed, or is it, again, yet to be decided by the government?
Well, to the information what we have is basically, in principle, they give clearance to DRDO to build the Radar, and budget is yet to be allocated, I guess. But as such, the configuration is being finalized at DRDO. So not sure exactly how they are proceeding it, but as of now, DRDO is trying to build the Radar, and they will try to identify an industry partner to do that.
Okay. How many players do you think would be competing on this? Will this be a transfer of technology, or it will be just a showcase of technology for players?
No, as I said, this is too early to comment on that. Unless they finalize the configuration, we cannot comment on this. As far as the industry is concerned, as you know, there are about 2-3 industries out there in this race. More may come. It all depends on what kind of a configuration DRDO finalizes.
Okay. And last question on the timeline. Do you have any thoughts of yours when it should be decided by the government?
I didn't get your question.
Any timeline thoughts you have at when the government should be deciding, or where do you think is the ultimate time when decision should be made?
We don't have any information on this.
Okay, sir. I'll come back to the queue. Thank you.
Yeah, sure.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from the line of Santanu Chatterjee from Mount Intra Finance Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for this opportunity, and congratulations for good set of numbers. My first question is on, sir, major opportunities on your different platforms, which you have already depicted in your quarter two presentation. But strangely, this time around, in this latest presentation, it is missing. In different platforms, you have depicted in FY 2024, major opportunity size is more or less INR 4,000 crore. INR 2,060 crore is from Radar segment and INR 2,000 crore from the system itself. Can you explain, sir, or can you give some kind of guidance that what is the present status of those orders or when these kind of opportunities from different platforms get converted into the form orders?
Yeah. There are various platforms which we indicated in the presentation. I'm not sure whether it was included or not this time. But it is the same as the last quarter. Not much of change. We have our presence in Uttam, which is going for production. As you know, HAL is producing the radars. 50% of the quantity, they have AON mark for the indigenous version that is Uttam, wherein we are supplying AAU. And then second is the upgradation or the LCA Mark I. That is LCA Mark II also. DRDO is planning to go for Radar. In that also, we are likely to compete with other players. As one gentleman mentioned about Su-30, it also is coming out in the near future, wherein we have to compete with other industry players for the Radar and EW segments.
In LCA Mark I, we are also there in need of ASPJ pod jammer, wherein we are the only source as of now for that pod unit. In that, we are supplying AAA Unit. Other platforms like AEW&C, which we have mentioned, AWACS, which two programs have been sanctioned. One is called Mark II, and then another one is Mark IA. We are there in both the platforms. We supplied originally the subsystems for Mark I about five years back. Now, Mark I is also being sanctioned. So, we are likely to expect a good amount of business from that. Similarly, Mark II, DRDO is finalizing the configuration soon. So there, we have a competition. We have to compete with other players. It all depends how this tender gets resolved. But otherwise, we have good opportunities for us to work on this domain.
In the ground segment, we have various platforms like Weapon Locating Radar and also TLR, which is the Radar for the Akash version. We are also working for QRSAM and then other major programs called Akash-NG. These are all other programs which we have been supporting to BEL. Then coming to the missile platforms, we are there in Akash and then Akash-NG as well as Akash Prime, then Astra Missile, and also in QRSAM, Akash-NG Missile. In all these missiles, we have subsystems. And as far as EW is concerned, we are there more or less in many platforms which BEL is producing, like Himshakti, Shakti, Varuna, all these platforms. We have been supplying subsystems. And yeah, that's all. These are the major programs in the Defense sector. In Space, we have products for RISAT, which are in production right now.
We are expecting repeats for similar payloads in the near future. Apart from that, we are building our own satellite payloads as well as in the satellites to address this particular market segment. In Meteorology, we supply automated weather station and as well as remote terminals. These are all major projects which we have been supplying to IMD and all. The other one which I have not covered is Doppler Weather Radar, which we supply to IMD and also ISRO. We are working in various frequency bands. So far, more than 15 have been installed and commissioned. Yeah, these are all some of the major programs which I think we have highlighted in last earnings call.
Yes, yes, yes, sir. Thanks a lot for your elaborate information about those programs. But what I am looking for, sir, in FY 2024, you have given a specific timeline that within FY 2024, what kind of major opportunities can emerge from those sectors. You have mentioned over there that from BEL, Arudhra Medium Power Radar, or from DRDO long-range radar, LRSAM Radar, and as you have mentioned right now, AEW&C, 11 airborne early warning and control radars, the order you have envisaged to the tune of INR 2,060 crore within FY 2024. So I am actually asking that what is the present status and whether you are getting those orders and how much is actually convertible into firm orders?
Yeah. Again, is that INR 2,000 crore or less? As I mentioned, we are likely to book INR 1,300 crore worth of orders for FY 2025, and in which covers Arudhra then AEW&C program and also the long-range radar, which we are trying to get from DRDO.
Okay, sir. Thanks. And one last answer from C-UAS itself. You have also mentioned over there that from Indian Armed Forces, you were envisaging more or less INR 2,000 crore order in program like counter unmanned aerial system. What is the current status of that program, sir?
Yeah, as Mr. Atim Kabra had mentioned in the initial remarks that our anti-drone radar is almost ready, and the internal trials are going on. We are likely to launch this product in the next quarter. We have four RFIs on hand. And most likely, by FY26, we may conclude some of the contracts for this particular system.
Okay, sir. Okay. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Abhijit Mitra from Aionios Alpha Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. I have a couple of questions. First of all, regarding the AEW&C Mark IA, I think next week is the expected AON. So what can be the potential order value that you will be bidding for, or will this be a bid, or this will be like a nomination tender for you?
We don't want to comment at this stage in this forum, Mr. Abhijit. I think this is a bit confidential, so we wanted to keep this information with us.
No worries. No worries. And INR 1,300 crores of order inflow guidance for FY 2025, you mentioned three projects. I mean, those three projects will be like, what, 60%-70% of the total INR 1,300 crores, or it is like a long tail, or I mean?
Yeah, actually, out of INR 1,300 crore, there's close to INR 1,000 crore from these major programs, D efense and Electronic Warfare put together. The rest is from Space and the Meteorology sector.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Just to understand the revenue guidance of INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,100 crore, what kind of execution are you factoring in in terms of projects, which are the major projects which you feel?
Yeah, FY 2025, as we are given guidance of INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,100 crore, in that, the major projects like one is that Arudhra, we have taken 20% of the contract for the execution. The other programs, which we already have orders on hand, that contains subsystems for various programs. Also, the few radars like HPSR, APS Radar, MTR, etc. These are all contracts which we already received in this current year and then which are in the execution phase. So similarly, in electronic warfare, we have received close to about INR 150 crore worth of orders, which we are going to execute in the next financial year. Similarly, the Telemetry Missile, about INR 140 crore. Then exports front, I think close to INR 250 crore we are planning to execute in the next financial year.
Sorry, I missed your last statement. In the Air Force, you mentioned what? Sorry.
Exports, INR 250 crore+.
So INR 250 crore. Got it. Got it. Also, just to understand, you raised money in May, June. So why have interest costs gone up in this quarter?
Yeah, basically, you have to look at the breakup for that. It is not entirely the expenditure incurred on interest. There is another accounting treatment as per the accounting standard. The advances received from the customers, if they're outstanding for more than one year, we have to make a provisional entry in the books of accounts as interest payable and advances and credit to a deferred revenue account, which is required as per the accounting standard. That entry constitutes about INR 9 crore out of the INR 19 crore or INR 20 crore, whatever is there. Otherwise, my interest costs for the working capital borrowings have actually come down compared to the corresponding quarter of previously.
The interest that you have applied on the advances, is it because of some slow-moving orders, or?
No, no, no. There's an accounting standard where if the advances from the customers is outstanding beyond 12 months period, then we have to make a notional entry in the books of accounts. Okay? We have advances received both from the export orders and also a couple of DRDO labs and SAC. So those advances are outstanding for more than one year. Though, as per the contract, we are not liable to pay, but as per the accounting standard, it is mandatory. And hence, a notional entry is booked in the books of accounts.
There will be a reversal also eventually.
Reversal as in when the contracts are executed and the advances nullified.
Okay. Got it. Got it. And this will be a recurring feature from now on, or what kind of provision yearly that you are looking for, INR 19 crore yearly provision, or?
It all depends what kind of advances are going outstanding in the books of accounts. We have to wait and see.
Okay. Got it. Got it. Last question, any supply chain challenges which you are facing now which may impact the margin profile or execution next year, you feel?
Yeah, little bit are there, one or two critical parts. But otherwise, to a large extent, it got resolved.
Okay. So those gallium nitride and all those things have not sort of materialized in a way which could impact?
No, no, no. There's not anything like that.
Got it. Got it. Thanks. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ketan Gandhi from Gandhi Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. In opening remarks, you said something about satellite integration. Can you please throw some more light on that, exactly what we are planning to do there?
Yeah. We are building a satellite for the Earth observation satellite based on a particular requirement. There, in fact, the payloads for that particular satellite are being already made by our space unit in Hyderabad. This new facility which we have initiated in Bangalore is going to be integration of the complete satellite. That addresses the Earth observation satellite and also in future, all kinds of communication satellites we are planning to build in that particular facility.
So more or less, we will be in the role of system integrator. Is it my understanding right, or we are into subsystems also in there?
We are basically a system integrator, and we are building our own system using our subsystems, whatever payloads we have been developing for ISRO. Using that, we are trying to build our own satellite. We are going to supply to the users. We are not going to operate and we are not going to emerge as an operator. We are only going to work against our contracts. We are going to build satellites.
Perfect. Thank you. And sir, in Akash-NG program, what value addition are we doing? Is it the Seeker or some kind of microwave subsystems apart from the older version?
See, this Akash-NG Seeker is a DRDO-designed Seeker wherein BEL, I think they are manufacturing it. We have components in that, microwave components. Apart from that, we have one more component which is going to replace the imported transmitter. So that is one of the major subsystems which has flown in the recent trials and which was justified successfully.
We are alone there, right? Nobody and no competition there?
We have one more player. One more player. As of now, we have one more company there.
Thank you, sir. Very helpful. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, may I press star one to ask a question? The next question is from the line of Abhishek Poddar from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking my question, sir, and congratulations on good quarter. Sir, if you could elaborate more on the LCA Mark II, whether we'll be involved in the design phase itself, or our role will come later on?
Well, I think DRDO will design the radar, and then after that, I think we'll start participating in that program.
Okay. So we would get a production order. We would not get a development order like that, is it?
Yeah. Actually, the development orders, like also gets a development contract, they'll get production orders.
Okay. And we would be competing to even get that development order. So how many players would be there, and what are the scope of work that we could be getting?
Right now, I can't comment how many companies are going to compete in this. But yeah, definitely, we have a competitive edge compared to the others as we have been involved in this similar class of radars and all. But beyond that, I'm not in a position. I cannot tell you about how many companies are going to compete.
Okay. All right. And sir, there was a big AON which DAC had approved in November. It was INR 230,000 crore. And there was a new scope which was included, let's say, 97 LCA Mark I probably is new. So if I look at your presentation in terms of opportunity size, which you had shown about 7,000 crore till 2028, shouldn't we assume that that should also increase because of the new AONs coming in? How to think about that?
Yeah. Actually, to be frank, yes. When we are given that overall figure, this INR 97 crore was not included. And this INR 97 crore, it's additional, I think, for the INR 7,000 crore what we have mentioned. But at the same time, if you look at some of the programs that are likely to get delayed beyond FY 2028, so we are taking as a buffer for that.
Okay. Understood. When you shared that presentation, you mean that the total potential is INR 25 where our win rate could be INR 7,000 or so?
I didn't get you. Come again?
Sorry. In the presentation, when you are showing the market potential for your products till 2028, there are two slides. One shows INR 24,000 crore-INR 25,000 crore as the total opportunity, and the other is INR 7,750,000 crore. So your sense there is that the total market size would be INR 25,000 crore or so, and your wins could be about 7,000 and all?
Yeah, yeah. So this total addressable market is around INR 25,000 crore what we have indicated. And again, is that we are likely in that we have mentioned about some of them are in proprietary nature, and some of them are in limited competition, and a few of them are in open competition. So in all three categories put together, we have given about INR 8,000 crore around the order pipeline, order book for this next four years' timeframe.
All right. And sir, in the BrahMos, would you be present anywhere like in seekers or transmitters and all?
No. We are not in BrahMos seekers. Only Telemetry, we are there in BrahMos, which is, of course, the quantities are very less as compared to the seekers. But Telemetry, we have been supplying. And there's another product called altimeter which they were importing all along. Now, recently, our product has been tested in lab, and I think soon they'll go for flight test. Once it gets approved, I think we will have a good number of altimeters for the future production.
All right. Understood. And just on the margins, last question for me. Your EBITDA margin is about 29%, and PBT is about 24%. So when you said next year is 15%-18%, this quarter would have something exceptional in 28% EBITDA margin? I missed it if you have already answered it. Sorry.
See, these margin movements on quarterly basis are very dynamic. It all depends on the specific products that are being executed in that particular quarter. Therefore, on a yearly basis, what we have mentioned is about 16%-18% of PBT levels.
Okay. Understood. And that would assume the export mix at 20%-25%?
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes.
Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. All the best to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Sir, what role would we be playing in AWACS project for the government?
What is our role in AWACS program? Well, we supplied RF and microwave components in the AWACS program for the primary radar, like a TR multimodule unit, antenna beamforming unit. These are all few products which we have supplied for the AWACS program in the past. And the next program also, we are there in the race.
Any thoughts on what is the size of that next program, and when can it be implemented?
Well, it's not in our hands, though the project got sanctioned a long time back. AEW&C Mark II RFPs will be out soon. I think that's what we expect from DRDO. Then Mark IA, I think, may take another year timeframe.
Okay. But sir, in the AEW&C, has the government finalized how many they will make, or it is just not clear right now?
No, it's cleared. Actually, Mark IA, I think, is about six numbers that have been cleared. I think they are going ahead.
Okay. But that order is not yet out, right?
Order for us. Yeah.
Okay. And so would we be how many players would be competing for that in the Akash components?
Yeah. See, let's not get into too much of specifics. But as I said, we are into primary radar subsystems as well as we have few subsystems for the secondary radar. So overall, our contribution in the Radar segment would be around 40%-45%.
Okay. That's enough. Thank you very much. Yeah. Got it.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, before we take the next question, would like to remind participants that please limit your questions to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you can always rejoin the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vipulkumar A. Shah from Sumangal Investment. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just one clarification. Our order book is inclusive of our joint venture with Rafael, or that order is not included in it?
Which order book you are referring? That INR 1,813 crore which we have mentioned is standalone.
Yeah, yeah. It is standalone, or it is inclusive of our joint venture?
No, no. It is standalone.
What is the order book of our joint venture with Rafael?
It's about INR 540 crore for joint venture.
Okay. Okay. It's a 50/50 joint venture, right, sir?
Yeah, yeah.
Sir, my second question is regarding the BTP versus BTS. Can you comment on the margins in both the segments, and what is our revenue share in terms of percentage from both segments?
See, in BTS, usually, this is the main area for our operations where we take the business from the users like DRDO and other labs to develop the subsystems and all. So that is the BTS which we have been working for the last 30 years, right from components to the systems. And whereas in BTP, we are taking up these orders to fulfill the offset obligations from the foreign players. And in BTS case, usually, our margins, it depends like competition and also based on the kind of business volumes and size of the business. So usually, it operates between we work with 40%-45%. And whereas in BTP, again, we have two categories in that. One category is where we have a more value addition which includes the debugging of failures and kind of a thing.
And the other one is pure assembly and testing area where we have a low margins. Their value addition is less. But in the other category of BTP which we have been working where the margins are a little higher, it's about 20%-25%.
In our revenue share, what should be the percentage of BTS, and what should be the percentage of BTP?
Now, actually, next year, FY 2025, as we mentioned, our overall exports would be around 22%-23%, around that. In that, the BTP will be close to 18%.
Domestic is 100% BTS?
Yeah. Domestic is 100% BTS.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Colonel Sarjeet Yadav from Mount Intra Finance Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Firstly, heartfelt congratulations for a good result. Just one question in case you can give some color on the space opportunity. As I understand that as of now, there's one product which is SAR payload. Any other opportunity we see, and in how much time do we see it getting commercialized? This is the question.
Well, we are working on that SAR payload. We got the technology transfer from ISRO, and we are trying to build payload based on the technology. Right now, it is in the optimization phase. May take two more years for us to build this particular payload and to offer to the radar imaging satellite programs.
Any other product in this Space segment which we are targeting?
Yeah. We have a few clients who are working for this kind of remanufacturing the satellites. We've been discussing with them. So I think probably we are in a position to offer solution to them.
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Astra, no further questions from the participant. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, gentlemen, for your participation. I look forward to seeing you again at the end of April. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Astra Microwave Products Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.