Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Navin Fluorine International Limited Q4 and FY 25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhavya Shah from Strategic Growth Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Welcome to the Q4 and FY 25 earnings conference call. Today on the call, we have with us Mr. Vishad P. Mafatlal, Chairman, Mr. Nitin Kulkarni, Managing Director, and Mr. Anish Ganatra, Chief Financial Officer of Navin Fluorine International Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations as of today. Actual results may differ materially. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. All details see how the statement is given on page two of investor presentation of the company, which has been uploaded on the stock exchange and company website. With this, I now hand over the call to Mr. Vishad P. Mafatlal for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It gives me great pleasure to welcome all of you to Navin Fluorine Q4 and full year FY 25 earnings call. I am joined today by our MD, Mr. Nitin Kulkarni, our CFO, Mr. Anish Ganatra, and Ms. Payal Dave from Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisor. Let me begin by saying that this has been a good quarter for Navin Fluorine, a quarter where multiple strategic levers came together to deliver a robust performance. We reported our highest-ever revenue of ₹2,349 crores and highest-ever quarterly revenues of ₹701 crores, with EBITDA margins in the last quarter reaching 25.5%. We have adhered to our financial framework, maintaining our debt-to-equity ratio of 0.37 and generating operating cash flows of ₹571 crores in the past year. I am pleased to announce our strategic agreement with Chemours to produce their proprietary product, Opteon, a two-phase immersion cooling fluid.
This manufacturing partnership leverages Chemours' innovation and Navin's manufacturing expertise to address the data center cooling needs created by AI and next-generation chips. With this partnership, we will foray into the advanced materials segment in line with our strategy communicated to you all in the past. This partnership is a significant milestone for us. It depicts Chemours' confidence and trust in Navin Fluorine's capabilities to absorb and commercialize high-end technologies, and we are grateful for the same. We have also tied up with Buss ChemTech AG, Switzerland, as a technology partner to commercialize solar and electronic-grade HF exclusively for us. Buss ChemTech AG is a leader in this space for over a century. We are pleased to announce our R-32 project, commercialized in March 2025, and is currently operating at optimal capacities.
This is a significant validation of our R&D and execution capabilities, and it adds further momentum to our high-performance products business, where we continue to see strong demand and pricing traction in both HFOs and R32. Encouraged by the continued growing demand of R32 across all geographies, including in India, for the RAC market, we are actively engaged with global partners to leverage this opportunity further. We have a robust order book visibility in our CDMO business and a strong pipeline in specialty chemicals business. Our ongoing HF project is progressing well, with completion expected by Q2 FY 26, and the cGMP-4 Phase One facility remains on track for commercialization in Q3 FY 26. To conclude, we remain focused on scaling our businesses, strengthening our technology platforms, building up strategic partnerships, and delivering sustainable growth to create long-term value for all our stakeholders. Thank you once again for joining us today.
With that, I would like to now hand over to Nitin to provide an update of our operating and business performance.
Thank you, Vishad Mafatlal, and good evening to everyone. A significant development is our strategic agreement with Chemours for the manufacturing of a new two-phase immersion cooling fluid, which is part of their Opteon series. Under the agreement, Navin Fluorine will establish a manufacturing facility at Surat at an estimated CapEx of $14 million, including $5 million of contribution by Chemours. The project is expected to be operational during Q1 of FY27. As market adoption deepens, Navin Fluorine and Chemours will get into discussions for servicing potentially higher demand. Our performance in Q4 reflects not just strong market demand but also the disciplined execution and operational resilience that our team has demonstrated across segments. We have seen sustained momentum across our verticals. In high-performance products, HPP, we recorded revenue driven by robust demand and improved pricing realization. This quarter, we commercialized the second plant of R32.
Our HF project is expected to be commissioned by Q2 of FY 26. Our tie-up with Buss ChemTech AG for high-purity HF, aligned to the expected commissioning of our HF plant, will help us to foray into solar and electronic-grade markets both in India and overseas. Moving to the specialty chemical business, we are operating at optimal capacity utilization at both Dahej and Surat, and we have good order visibility for FY 26. After successful validation by our global agrochemical partners, we are also introducing two fluoro intermediates for their new innovative AIs in FY 26. Commercial production at our Dahej facility for fluoro specialty project, which commenced in December 2024 and is currently ramping up well. In Surat, following our INR 30 crore expansion, we initiated the first dispatch of this particular product in February 2025. The CDMO business recorded strong performance in the last quarter.
This growth has been driven by both repeat orders and new project wins. Looking ahead, our cGMP-4 CapEx of INR 288 crore is progressing as planned. Phase One, which involves INR 160 crore of investment, is on track to be commissioned by the end of Q3 FY 26. Overall, I want to emphasize that Navin Fluorine is currently in a good position both operationally and strategically. We are advancing with disciplined project execution and targeted capital investments, all within a well-defined financial structure. At the same time, we are pursuing growth to keep pace with an evolving market landscape. Our efforts remain focused on strengthening our existing verticals, expanding into new product lines, and upholding the highest standards of safety, compliance, and operational integrity. On this note, I would like to hand over to Anish to brief you on financial performance.
Thank you, Nitin. Good evening all, and I welcome you all once again on the earnings call. Moving on to the financial performance of the company in Q4 and FY 25. Quarterly performance: We reported revenues of INR 701 crores in Q4 FY 25, an increase of 16% year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, led by an increase in revenue across all the verticals. Operating EBITDA for Q4 FY 25 was approximately INR 179 crores, a growth of 62% year-on-year. Operating EBITDA margin stood at 25.5%, as against 18.3% in Q4 of FY 24. Operating PBT for Q4 FY 25 was INR 115 crores, as against INR 67 crores, an increase of 72%. Profit after tax in Q4 FY 25 stood at INR 95 crores, as against INR 70 crores in Q4 FY 24, an increase of 35%. FY 25 performance: For FY 25, on a consolidated basis, the company reported net operating revenue of INR 2,349 crores, as against INR 2,065 crores in FY 24, reflecting a growth of 14%.
Operating EBITDA stood at INR 534 crores, as against INR 398 crores in FY 24, up by 34%. Operating EBITDA margin for FY 25 stood at 22.7%, as against 19.3% in the same period last year. Operating PBT for FY 25 was INR 336 crores, as against INR 228 crores, an increase of 48%. Profit after tax in FY 25 stood at INR 289 crores, as against INR 271 crores in FY 24. As of 31 March 2025, our net debt to equity stood at 0.37, and net working capital days at 90 days of sales, well within the financial frame indicated earlier. That's all from my side. We can now open the lines for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sudarshan Padmanabhan from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, and congrats on great setup number of NFIL. Sir, my question is to understand a little bit more deep with respect to the tie-up with Chemours, especially if I look at the nature of the product that we are dealing with. I mean, this opens a completely new arena of business for us in terms of targeting the AI customers in terms of coolants. What I'm trying to understand is, if I'm looking at the size of the CapEx today, with respect to the size and the potential of the industry, I think Chemours themselves talk about $50 million versus $3 billion. I'm trying to understand, one, your scalability with Chemours. Number two, can you take this technology and knowledge and extrapolate it to other products so that you can target a wider range of customers in that sense?
Okay. All right. Thanks, Sudarshan. So yes, we are also equally excited with the tie-up on Chemours and the fact that it opens up a completely new product line for us. As mentioned by Vishad Bhai and reiterated by Nitin, this is a foray by Navin into the advanced materials play. Though it's not something that's happened by accident, we've always indicated this as part of a strategic priority as we keep progressing on our growth journey. Now, the size of CapEx and scalability, etc., I think, again, we've said this very clearly in our disclosures too, that this is the initial capacity to help Chemours with the adoption, with accelerating the adoption of their proprietary product into the market. Technology belongs to them, so clearly it's not something that we have any rights to the technology or its end product or its use. Yeah?
Sure. Sure. So I mean, in the sense of targeting the larger audience within the state, I mean, I'm just trying to understand because this is the first step into the space, whether this will open up a new business for us altogether if I'm passed forward, I say, three-fold.
Basically, what Navin is demonstrating is our ability to understand, absorb, and commercialize the proprietary product based on the various platforms on which we are operating. This particular venture has demonstrated that Navin got the skill set from a gram level to the commercialization of the product, where at each and every stage, we have the required infrastructure, the analytical tools, the skill set, the people to gain the confidence and demonstrate on the ground our ability to make the product which is required for such high-end technologies. Our job is here to demonstrate our abilities to work on the platforms where such technologies, we can easily absorb and take it forward.
So, giving an answer to your question, because of this particular capability of Navin, we are working with other areas in the new age industry also, which covers like semiconductor agents, the doping gases, the specialty additives required for such applications. So there is a hopper where we are working with other global majors for other applications, for other new age technologies. So for this particular application, as Anish Bhai said, this is exclusive for Chemours. This is their technology, and we are just going to, we have absorbed, and we are going to scale it up. And as things progress, it will go further.
So Sudarshan, just to add, we've always said that we are working on a portfolio of products within the Advanced Materials space. This one has crystallized first, so this is the beginning, as we said.
Just on the numbers, I mean, what is the kind of assets and qualitatively the margins that we can do? Is it?
Sudarshan said this is an initial capacity that we've put in for Chemours to help with the adoption. The capacity by itself is sufficient to support several field trials of the product in terms of actually doing dozens of field trials to accelerate the adoption. The value proposition of the product is such that it is something that is considered essential to the evolution of data centers as next-gen GPUs and chips advance. The sense is that two-phase immersion cooling is going to be the most effective solution in the play. So like we said in our announcement, as this market sort of adoption accelerates, there will be a conversation for a greater capacity. Unfortunately, in the contract confidentiality terms, we're not allowed to disclose any asset terms or value or capacity around it.
But you have a size of the CapEx, so you're free to make your judgment on that.
Sure. Thanks a lot for your elaborate answer. One final question before I join back with you: I'm happy to see the CDMO gaining good traction. One, of course, Fermion is scaling up well for us. I mean, just to reiterate, we've talked about a lot of products getting into the commercial space from late stage. So if you can qualitatively talk about, with respect to because we are putting a lot of CapEx in this space, qualitatively, how many products or what is the kind of scale that we can expect in an accelerated mode in the CDMO?
See, I think, as we've said before, that at any given point in time, we are working on 10-15 commercial or late-stage products that have the potential to grow up. If you look at our slides in the update that we've given today, we've talked about a commercial order for a U.S. major that's expected for delivery in FY 26. This order follows on a successful scale-up order that was delivered in this quarter. So I mean, as we've always said in this vertical, we work with innovative molecules, and innovative molecules by definition, you talk of blockbuster-level concepts. Yeah? So I mean, the capacity we think is actually going to be needed to achieve our growth aspirations.
Sure. Thanks a lot, Anish.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivek Rajamani from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the presentation, and congratulations on a great set of results. I'll probably extend the previous participant's question on CDMO. Given the progress that you've made with the new customers, could you give us a sense of how we should be thinking of the CDMO revenues into fiscal 2026, 2027? Vis-à-vis where we are in Q4, this is already a great start. So just some thoughts in terms of how that could evolve. And this is an extension to that. You had mentioned that from a strategic perspective, you're shifting into more late-stage molecules to reduce the lumpy nature of CDMO. I just wanted to understand with the contracts that you have, how far do these contracts get you with reaching that objective? Thank you.
So Vivek, thanks for the question again. I mean, on the CDMO side, as we've said before, the strategy was to balance early-stage and late-stage molecules. Late-stage and commercial molecules are going to add scale and growth into this business, and that's where our focus was. They'll remove the lumpiness, as you rightly said. We will be looking to sort of continuing to hold our aspirational target to be 100 million. Like I said, 100 million is not, it's a milestone. It's not the destination. So effectively, even if we are 90, it doesn't change the dial. In fact, it's a tipping point for CDMO to become a material business. The US major commercial molecule that we talked about, if that molecule succeeds, again, that's a big sort of molecule to come into our portfolio and will become, hopefully, something like a Fermion type.
The other thing to remember here is that as we sort of scale this, so between now and the 100 million target, and like I said, you can take a rough number there, but the growth will be sort of gradual and progressive. It's not kind of, we're not talking many years. We're talking two years. So I'll leave the math to you.
Yes, sir. That's clear. Maybe the second question I had was just with respect to the conversations that you're having with your broader customer base across segments. Just wanted to get a sense in terms of everything that's been happening in the last couple of months. Do you get a sense of how customers are thinking about 2025, 2026? Are you getting a sense of them changing any strategy from a procurement perspective? Any high-level thoughts with respect to tariff would be super helpful. Thank you.
So tariffs have a, and I think, again, following on the announcement of tariffs, of course, the impact is now very subdued as we speak now. But the kind of case for Navin was neutral to positive, as we've indicated before. If you look at different verticals now, HPP, the growth gets driven through all the sort of regulatory changes that are happening in the end markets there, whether you talk of the Montreal Protocol, etc. And the HPP vertical is virtually, I think, insulated from the tariff conversations. On the AgChem side, again, talking to our customers, none of them are indicating anything substantially changed in their strategic direction on outsourcing or doing more of work outside with players in India, etc., as a result of the tariff conversation.
CDMO also, as I've indicated before, because we play with innovative large customers, these customers, when they look at their molecules, the intermediate is a very small component of them. For them, it's more important to ensure the success of their molecule rather than worry about the tariffs, I think at least. But it's a space that we continue to watch all the time. As of now, we've not seen any sort of headwind as a result of the tariffs, and the fact that we are making some good progress on our strategic priorities is a good indication of the customer mindset in this space.
Sure, sir. Thank you for that. I'll rejoin with you and all the very best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, we're requested to limit your questions to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you may rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my questions. I got a few, but we'll restrict to two. First, on the Buss ChemTech, we did announce the arrangement and exclusive technology transfer. We are already building an HF capacity. This should be more distillation, right, to bring in the purity here. We are talking what, PPB level or it is still PPM level? That's number one. Number two, what really the application does it have in solar and on the electronic side? What really characteristics or the effect does it add and how big the opportunity is for us? Because I think India is adding a lot of solar capacity. In that background, can you help us understand that?
Yeah. All right. Thanks, Sanjay. I'll request Mr. Nitin to sort of take this.
Sanjay, here we are talking about the entry and end-phase specification. We are not talking of only PPM or PPB. PPB is part of the entry and end-phase. We are really talking about the end-phase grade which goes into the high-end electronic grade. This is not just the distillation to make high-purity product. It is actually to meet the end-phase grade of electronic industry. That is the reason we are talking about the opportunity not only within the Indian space but outside India. Second, entry grade, that is what we currently talk about the solar application. Definitely, if you look at the number of the gigawatt installations which are happening in the country and the way forward the program is, the demand is going to be very robust.
It is already in place, and I think this is a good opportunity for us to cater to the global electronics as well as the solar application area. So this is not just the pure distillation. It is much beyond that, which includes the clean rooms as well as the packaging.
So just to add, Sanjay, again, this is something that we've indicated as our strategic priority to get more value for money from every kg of HF, right? So it's aligned with that goal. And so I just wanted to make sure you got that. Yeah? Thanks, Sanjay.
No, that's clear. But are we putting any other asset for this or how is it? We haven't announced any CapEx.
Not yet, but this could culminate into that.
The first step was to bring the right partner into this. And that too also which will protect our long-term interest. So I think we have crossed that hurdle quite well. And I will say this is a very significant development moving forward into the end-phase and entry specification.
This is not similar to Opteon, right? This is not contract manufacturing. This is tech transfer and branding by Navin.
Correct. This is product play. This is pure Navin product play like 32.
Very clear. Very clear. Just one small question on Opteon. Opteon is a fluorine product or some other chemistry?
Again, under the agreement, Sanjay, we are not allowed to talk about the chemical composition of this product. So unfortunately, we'll not be able to clarify on that.
No problem. Just one last question probably on the gross profit margin and the inventory days. I thought we had a benefit of our R32 pricing. We had higher contribution from CDMO. We had optimized all the product. And the gross profit margin sequentially dipped. What really or how should we see the gross profit margin? That's number one. Number two, inventory days have come down from what, 80 plus now to 45, close about that. Is it a sustainable number or there was huge order and we have used or consumed a lot of inventory? How should we see this inventory days of 81? I think we were targeting 90 something. We have overachieved that.
No. So our net working capital days was we had indicated 100, and where we are today is 90. The inventory reduction that you're talking about is definitely sustainable because it's not something that has happened by accident. We've been continuously monitoring the levels of inventory and matching that to orders. Yes, we had a scenario where there were raw materials that were there which were used up in the order as they came in. So it's not something that's a one-off. It's something that we have a lot of discipline in terms of our procurement around inventory and aligning that with the order books. Yeah? So that was on what was your other question? Sorry, I missed that.
Gross profit margin mix plus pricing.
Yeah. So on the gross profit, I mean, you're right. In terms of the pricing advantage, we are seeing good sort of tailwinds in the HPP business, particularly on the different ref gases and the portfolio around that, whether you look on it year- on- year, quarter on quarter. And we continue to sort of have a good constructive outlook on that side of things. There have been some cost increases, particularly in certain raw materials like sulfur and the like, which has sort of impacted the margins. But it's a small dip. I mean, if you look at it on an overall basis for a year to year, it's still pretty robust. So again, sulfur prices are also, I believe, sort of softening. So hopefully, we'll see some correction on that as well.
No, that's very clear. Thanks. Thanks for answering all those questions patiently and best of luck for coming quarters.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhav from Fidelity. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. Thank you so much for your time. My first question was if you could just give some sense around the R-32 market. Since what we get is that pricing has been quite heavy there. So if you could give us some sense in terms of how the pricing dynamics are today and just your outlook for the next maybe FY 26 or for the next few quarters, how that could shape up. And I think you also did indicate that you're discussing with some global clients for some sort of a partnership. So if you could elaborate a bit there as well. Thank you.
So Madhav, thanks for that. I mean, see, R32, we've always steered away from giving specific pricing guidance because, frankly, price is a factor of demand and supply, right? And when we start looking at demand factors that influence the pricing, we remain very, very positive on it. And we see firsthand evidence of it. I mean, if you think about our new capacity coming on board, I mean, we've had sort of multiple inquiries on the capacity much before even the capacity came on stream. And in fact, in the last call, if you remember, we did indicate that some of these inquiries are large enough for us to have a strategic conversation. Now, since then, what has happened is these inquiries have come from multiple global majors.
And as a result of that, our own thinking has evolved and progressed in terms of thinking what is the right size, what is the right sort of capacity to think over here. And in due course of time, as we close out the commercials around it and take it to investment state, we will definitely come out and tell the market about it.
Wonderful. Wonderful. And also on the fluorine specialty project, the INR 540 crore, what's the utilization rate there and how does FY 26 look in terms of ramp-up for that project?
So on that particular one, like we've said before, that's a three-stage complex process that we are undertaking, and we are slowly progressing and progressively ramping it. We are not rushing into it. I won't talk about the capacities now, but while the capacity is being used to deliver the dedicated molecule, we are also modifying the capacity to also address a new molecule at the customer's funding, which I had indicated even in earlier calls. But we remain very positive about the utilization of this asset by the end of this year. So what we are talking there, remember, if we were for 540, we had indicated a PAR value. We think we'll be about 50-plus% by the end of the year on that number, roughly.
50% plus utilization by the end of FY 26?
Yeah. So I mean, utilization in terms of because we are adding in one more molecule on that, I wouldn't sort of use it in terms of tonnages or machines, but more in terms of the PAR value. And therefore, I'm saying that about 50%-55% is what you will see by the end of the year, revenue coming in from that asset.
Just one last small question. The CapEx that you announced with Chemours, it's a $14 million CapEx. So I mean, with our balance sheet, we could have easily funded the whole thing by our own selves. Any reason why Chemours went $5 million? I mean, that's a very small amount for Navin, right? So why did we just invest the whole thing on our own?
Yeah. Yeah. So Madhav, you're right. I don't think it's about the value and the quantum of investment. It's symbolic, and it's a question of partnership. And that's what that number indicates. It indicates skin in the game. It indicates a partnership. It indicates that both of us are committing resources and effort around developing something that's revolutionary and needed for the growth of data centers and next-gen chips as they advance.
Okay. Cool. And any guidance on margins for FY 26, the direction where we could be?
So I think we've said this before. We had reset this to 25%. For now, we will hold it to that number. We're working very hard to make sure that gets delivered. I mean, just on this call previously, somebody asked me about tariffs, etc. The global scenario is such that there are headwinds and tailwinds, and we are going to work very hard to maintain that margin. That's where we are. We'll come and revisit that at the end of the year.
Or 25% or the portfolio basis, right?
Yes.
Okay. Cool. Thank you.
It's not, again, this is a range. We're talking between 23% to 26%, 27%. It could be anywhere in between. But it will be ballpark there. That's what we are striving towards.
Of course. Of course. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krishan Parwani from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, sir. Q3 had a very strong set of numbers. Two questions from my side. First, as per my understanding, production of electronic-grade HF first requires gasification of anhydrous HF. So would the tech tie-up enable us to do the same, or have we developed that in-house?
Krishnan, I'll ask Nitin to answer that.
No, I didn't get to Krishan. This is what you are asking.
So I was just asking the gasification of the anhydrous HF is required in production of electronic-grade HF. So the tie-up that you have done, yeah.
So it is required for our normal HF production also.
Okay. So that is in-house. Okay.
Yeah. That is correct. Yeah.
Yeah. And secondly, on CDMO for the commercial order from the U.S. major, would you need a separate CapEx or not now?
No, not now. Not now.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you for answering my question. Wish you all the best.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity and partnering to know that we have achieved that 25% exit already. First question is looking at the balance sheet, we have a gross block of around INR 3,000 crores. What is the kind of asset terms on an aggregate basis we are looking from this gross block? And in normal circumstances, when can we achieve that peak revenue potential?
So I think, again, Rohit, I mean, there's assets over there. If you look at any asset that we commission, we talk two years to get to par, right? Now, it's just in this last year, if you look at it, we're talking of the fluorine specialty CapEx coming on board, which was about INR 500 crore in terms of what we had approved for, and also the R-32. Now, the asset terms vary by businesses. So if you look at HPP, we are seeing that asset terms of 2X. Again, all of this is market-driven as well, right? And I'm sure you understand that. That where we play the product play, it can be 2X, it can be higher than that. Like R-32, we are actually seeing that value today very easily.
In the AgChem business, we are seeing an asset turn of something like 1.5, 1.4, something like that. In CDMO business, again, we are seeing asset turns of 2. So in terms of there are different sort of things, but when you sort of look, it's difficult to give you an average because what happens is our investment is not consistently the same in different verticals, right? We've invested in different times in different verticals based on the opportunity and based on the projects, how they progress. But if you look at the payback conversation, then I would sort of indicate to you that the HFO asset has already achieved its payback. As I indicated before, the fluorine specialty CapEx will achieve about 50%-55% of the payback in FY 26. That's what we are working on.
The MPP asset in the Dahej, which was commissioned, we're talking of we had indicated a PAR of something like 260 odd crores. We are roughly about 80% of that, 75%-80% of that. And in the coming year, we'll probably see that go up. Again, in the same way, the dedicated specialty plant in the Dahej, we had achieved the PAR in an earlier year. And this year, we've fallen short of the PAR number. But coming in the coming year in FY 26, we are hopeful of meeting the PAR over there as well. So I will leave it at that, Rohit, if that makes sense.
Sure. That explains. The second question is, in the last few years, we have seen that we have become a partner of choice for manufacturing for the global majors. There is a tech transfer also happening, and our capabilities are also improving to that extent. But beyond the tech transfer and the manufacturing that we are doing, how are we shaping up our in-house R&D, or rather, which are the user segments where we are developing certain technologies or products? How that effort is shaping up? And when can we see new products being launched from R&T for the global markets? Thank you.
All rig ht. So let me sort of take that, and then I will ask Nitin to add on to that. If you kind of look at us, we've always talked of a product and service play, and our philosophy on both has been very clear. Where we have both the technical and the commercial capability to market the product and take the product to the end customers, we are clearly in the product play. Where we believe that we can develop that capability, we're still in a product play. Similar to what Nitin just mentioned on solar and electronic HF play, which will be something of a product play. Where we believe that we have manufacturing excellence that we can bring into play, you will see service type agreements, much like the HFO agreement or the Chemours agreement, right?
You will see a combination of how Navin plays into this. In terms of our own R&D, we've established a very strong R&D both in Surat and in Dewas, catered to different parts of the business. Continuously on our HPP projects, HPP, we have both a product place that we are working on as well as service place that we are working on. It's going to be a combination of the two, but I'll let Nitin add in terms of R&D capability and what we are doing.
But Anish, your call most probably thinks it is a very.
Just to add to Anish, for these new-age businesses and opportunities, you need a quite different infrastructure. Fortunately, we have built that. We are building further expertise based on the experiences which we are gaining, the knowledge sharing which is happening to us. I will really say we have a very strong now infrastructure, the culture, and the mindset to develop and commercialize such processes. I think that is definitely going to help us a lot while playing a service provider type of a role for high-end technology absorption for this new-age platform. At the same time, when we need to do a product play, we need to be a little bit careful about the product selection because we need to understand also our customer expectations, which are our strategic partners.
By keeping the balance between the two, definitely, we have the HPP where, like you must be knowing, one of our products called Boron Trifluoride Gas, which is developed by us. Today, we are one of the largest players not only in India but in the world. We are really putting efforts to come up with some more such products. I think we also need some time, as well as I think we can also show some patience before we come up with the similar product like BF3.
Yeah. Like R-32 is another good example. Yeah, where we've gone beyond the markets that we were currently servicing, but because we had enough sort of bandwidth and capability that we could develop, we've gone out and even serviced the U.S. market today. Today, most of the customers we talk to are across the globe.
Right. Right. This is really helpful. Just one last clarification in terms of the FY 27 CDMO aspiration of $100 million. It stays, right?
Yes.
Sorry?
100 million by FY 27.
CDMO.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think I've given color to that before as well. It'll be one-third, one-third, one-third. One-third supported by the CDMO Fermion contract , one-third coming in from any new MSA, and we are making progress on that as we talk, and one-third from the base business.
Right. But that stays, correct? And then I just.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Very much.
Yeah, but as you said, don't look at only 100.
Yeah. Okay. The milestone.
Thanks a lot for answering all the questions. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants are requested to please limit their questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Ankur Periwal from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a great set of numbers. First question on the gross margin front. Now, I'm looking across the three business segments. So CDMO typically is a high-margin business. In HPP, you have the benefit of pricing coming in there. May not be this quarter, maybe next quarter. But your guidance is still the similar range of 23%-26%. So is it the specialty chemical part wherein there is somewhat of pricing pressure, or maybe some guidance there will be helpful?
So I think.
So, Ankur, if you look at the current quarter one numbers published by the Global Ag, they have showed some better numbers, but at the cost of the raw material cost improvement. So pricing pressure is quite heavy.
Can't do that.
Though there is a volume uptake, but price pressure is going to remain. So we have to address both the challenges to keep our.
Yeah, and Ankur, while Nitin sort of reflecting, but you also sort of should bear this in mind that we don't live in a certain world. I can't take a linear extrapolation. I mean, there's so much of uncertainty around us that today we are being cautious in not guiding any number that's different, and we are working very hard to maintain that 25%. But as the quarters progress, you will see where we get to, and when we feel it's right, we will update that guidance. But today, I think 25 is what we are in a range-bound number, working very hard to maintain.
And Ankur, just as you know, the way we started this FY, and we exited at 25. So definitely, our focus, our approach is definitely what we can bring best to the stakeholders. And we will make everything possible to achieve best.
Sure. Sure, Nitin. And thanks for that. Just a clarification here. The R32 sales that we are doing, is it largely spot basis, or these are probably largely on the contractual basis?
Combination of both, actually. OEM as well as contracts, particularly in newer markets.
Okay. That's helpful. Just a second bit. The CDMO growth path, whether it is Fermion or the US molecule that we are working on, would it be fair to say that we will need a cGMP-4 here for a full ramp-up, as we discussed earlier?
So like we said before, I mean, again, if you look back to what we had done in FY 23, I believe, that was done with cGMP1, 2, and 3. And if you add the CapEx terms that we're talking in CDMO business, which you're aware of, the cGMP phase one along with 1, 2, and 3 will get us pretty close to the number we are aspiring to in FY 27.
Sure.
Based on that. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Participants are requested to please limit their question to one per participant. The next question is from the line of Abhijit Akela from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, and thank you. The depreciation and finance costs, the significant increase in this quarter, is largely because of the commissioning of the fluorine specialty project, the INR 540 crore one. And for the year ahead, if you could please help us with any broad estimate of where these two line items might go in the context of what we are expecting to capitalize? Also, if you could just share a number on the CapEx budget for fiscal 2026?
All right. So your question about depreciation, you're right. The increase does reflect the capitalization coming in from the fluorine specialty project. And if I had to give you a sense, you should probably look at about INR 30-35 crore per quarter as a run rate. So this is for the assets that are being capitalized. And we're talking about 140-odd crore and roughly about INR 130-135 crore for the interest hit as well for the whole year. Now, of course, that interest charge will keep coming down as the debt gets paid out. But as we stand now, that's where we are. The CapEx plan for the year, I mean, again, what's there out in the public in terms of the AHF plan that's currently ongoing, we will obviously have CapEx on it as well as on the cGMP-4.
Our CapEx frame to talk about a number of INR 500-600 crore capability of the balance sheet to fund in terms of cash outflow and CapEx continues to remain intact because our balance sheet continues to remain strong, coupled with a very strong net debt to equity kind of number too. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you so much. And just one other quick thing. On the Opteon project, is the margin profile comparable with what we have at company level or somewhat?
Sorry. Is the?
On the Opteon project, is the margin profile in line with the overall company-level averages or?
Unfortunately, I won't be able to help you there. I mean, I think we have to look at it like a strategic investment. There will be our assets, our CapEx is absolutely protected. Our returns, as what we have, our internal threshold are also protected. But one has to look at this as a strategic investment. It's a short.
Thanks. Understood. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you.
You too.
The next question is from the line of Amar Maurya from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity. My question is on Opteon. Sir, in terms of the technology readiness at the Chemours level, is this technology is at TRL 7 to 9?
There's a lot of background noise at your end, but if I understood you're asking, is the technology sort of structured, etc.?
Is it better now?
Yeah. Sorry. Go on. What was your question? Maybe you can repeat.
Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm trying to understand is, in case of Opteon, is the technology in the technology level, technology readiness level, is this technology at Chemours level is like to the level of 7- 9 so that you can do a commercial delivery by Q1 2027? So we are talking about commercial deliveries by Q1 2027, right?
Yeah. Yeah. This is a product we've actually already been making for them in smaller quantities at the moment. Part of the reason is we've been working with Chemours on this. These partnerships don't happen overnight. The idea is that this is now coming to a level where an initial scale capacity was seen as necessary to progress the adoption in the market. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to answer what you're asking.
Okay. And secondly, this chemical, are there two chemicals, one for direct-to-chip and one for immersion, or is the chemical the same for both?
No, this is two-phase immersion cooling liquid.
So I'm saying, sir, you are going to make immersion cooling also and direct-to-chip cooling also, right? So there are two chemicals.
No, I didn't say that. So I didn't say that. So just hear me out. Two-phase immersion cooling liquid is the capacity we are setting up for.
Okay, so this is immersion cooling technology, so that means you are going to.
Two-phase.
OEM, you are targeting more of the data center.
So Amar.
Amar, just get this.
Don't miss this definition.
Yeah. It's very critical.
No, because, sir, immersion cooling is still not approved by Dell, HP, Lenovo, anybody.
Right. No, no, no.
Because you don't go into that. I'm just talking about the product description. So when you are saying, I'm just saying we are talking about two-phase immersion cooling.
Yeah. I mean, we'll leave it for you to judge.
You judge. Yeah.
What would be the product etc. from your research?
What's the opportunity size of this market globally?
Again, something that I can only tell you from what Chemours has talked in their public sort of media release yesterday. We are talking about a potential. The entire liquid cooling market is today $0.5 billion, expected to become something like $3 billion by 2035. Okay? And two-phase immersion cooling liquid is part of that market. Yeah.
Got it. Got it.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
All right. So again, thank you all for taking the time today evening. Really appreciate the quality of the questions and the interactions and look forward to our next sort of interaction on this. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for all of.
Thank you.
Your time.
Thanks, everyone.
Thank you. On behalf of Navin Fluorine International Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.