Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Uno Minda Q4 FY25 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.
Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sunil Bohra, Group Chief Financial Officer, for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Henrik. Good afternoon, everyone, and a warm welcome to all the participants. On the earnings call today, I am joined by my colleague, Ankur Modi. We have uploaded our financial results and investor presentation for Q4 and FY25 on the stock exchanges and our company's website. I would like to begin by giving some insights on the economy, followed by the current scenario in the auto industry and our financial and operational performance for Q4 and FY25, post that we will open the floor for Q&A.
The global economy exhibited resilient growth of 3.2% in 2024, despite a backdrop of persistent inflationary pressures, geopolitical tensions, and structural headwinds. While the year started with a positive note, expecting declining interest rates and maintaining the growth momentum, rising trade tensions, weak consumer sentiment, and geopolitical disruption resulted in projected growth at 2.8% for 2025.
The U.S. implemented growth-based tariffs in April, triggering retaliation and sharp volatility in trade and markets. While these measures have been paused for 90 days amid ongoing negotiations, we remain cautiously optimistic. Regionally, growth forecasts have been revised down across the board. The U.S. is expected to grow at 1.8%, the Euro area at 0.8%, and China at 4%.
Emerging markets are also slowing, though India remains a bright spot at projected growth of 6.2%. India continues to stand out as one of the fastest-growing major economies globally, consistently outperforming both advanced and emerging market peers with decent GDP numbers compared to other countries.
This resilience is underpinned by strong structural fundamentals, including a young and expanding workforce, sustained momentum in structural reforms, and a vibrant services sector that remains key in the upgrowth. In this fluid landscape, agility, discipline, and clarity of purpose are critical.
As a company, we remain focused on adapting swiftly to external changes, safeguarding resilience, and leveraging opportunities in structurally attractive markets. Moving on to the automotive industry, for the quarter ending March 2025, the Indian automobile industry recorded a year-on-year production volume growth of approximately 6%, with total production reaching around 78 lakh units. For the full fiscal year, the industry posted a 9% growth.
This performance was primarily driven by strong demand in the two-wheeler and PV segments, supported by a combination of factors, including increased infrastructure investment, supported government policies, and a sustained push towards sustainable mobility.
Sound economic fundamentals and positive market sentiment further contributed to the industry's continued momentum. However, growth across segments was not uniform. The CV segment saw a decline of 3.6% for the year, reflecting the impact of subdued industrial activity and delayed government spending.
While the overall industry remained resilient, performance in certain pockets suggests that underlying demand recovery is still stabilizing. Nonetheless, sound economic fundamentals and a generally positive market environment helped sustain the sector's power trajectory. In Q4 FY25, CV production grew by 5% year-on-year, reaching 14.11 lakh units.
This was primarily driven by strong demand in the utility vehicle segment. Q4 FY25 showed continued growth, albeit at a moderated pace compared to the high growth rates of the preceding quarters.
This moderation is attributed to the high base effect, where growth appears less dramatic when compared to an exceptionally strong prior period. For the full fiscal year, CV production rose by 3% to 50.6 lakh units, again led by robust growth in the utility vehicles. The overall market continues to shift in favor of SUVs and premium offerings, with a composition of 62% of overall CV production.
Looking ahead, the segment is poised for growth, supported by new product launches and rising consumer interest in premium categories. However, headwinds persist, including global economic uncertainty, trade-related tariff pressures, and their dampening effect on disposable income. Demand for entry-level cars remains. Overall, FY26 is likely to close with low single-digit growth. The two-wheeler segment delivered year-on-year growth of approximately 6% in Q4 FY25, with production reaching around 58 lakh units.
For the full fiscal year, the segment posted a robust 11% year-on-year growth, with total production reaching approximately 2.39 crore units. Growth was largely supported by strong global sentiment. Exports also contributed meaningfully, rising 20% year-on-year, driven by a 28% increase in motorcycle exports and an exceptional 194% surge in mopeds. The three-wheeler segment recorded a steady 10% growth, primarily driven by continued demand for passenger carriers.
In Q4 FY25, the CV segment registered a growth of 3%, with total production reaching approximately 2.9 lakh units. While domestic demand remained relatively muted, with a modest increase of around 1.5% year-on-year, CV exports recorded strong boosts, surging by nearly 56%. India's electric two-wheeler EV market experienced a notable 9% quarter-on-quarter decline in sales, with 3.05 lakh units from 3.33 lakhs, despite achieving a significant year-on-year growth.
While the fiscal year concluded with over 1.14 million e-two-wheelers sold, a 21% increase from FY24, the momentum slowed down in the final quarter. The reduction in government subsidies, charging infrastructure challenges, and range anxiety are some of the challenges impacting the segment. Despite near-term challenges, long-term prospects for e-two-wheelers remain highly promising, with various government initiatives like PM E-DRIVE schemes, state EV policies, technology advancement, increasing charging network, as well as the battery range .
Coming to financial and operational performance, you can refer to slide 7 and 8. Uno Minda delivered a robust financial performance in Q4 FY25, marked by strong top-line growth. Consolidated revenue from operations for the quarter stood at INR 4,528 crore, reflecting 19% year-on-year growth from INR 3,794 crore in Q4 FY24. This growth was driven by broad-based strength across multiple product segments, particularly switches, alloy wheels, and chain systems.
Additionally, the consolidation of Minda Westport and Minda Onkyo during the year contributed to the revenue uptake. EBITDA for the quarter reached a record INR 527 crore, registering 11% year-on-year growth from INR 474 crore. EBITDA margin moderated to 11.6% compared to the corresponding quarter last year. This is primarily attributable to higher accumulated price settlement in Q4 last year. Furthermore, the commissioning of three new projects over the last six months, currently in the ramp-up phase, led to higher costs.
Employees' costs also increased during the quarter, primarily due to additional manpower in our operations, new projects, new Czech Republic R&D centers, and higher gratuity provision. We would like to inform that, based on the increased utilization, better cycle times, etc., and considering the short life of tools in the casting business, we plan to change our accounting policy as we move into the new fiscal year. These tools, which were capitalized. However, considering the useful life of these tools, these will now be charged off the income statement.
Estimated impact of the same is likely to be around INR 40 crore on an annual basis, though a similar amount shall be reduced in depreciation over a couple of years. Finance costs increased to INR 41 crore compared to the same period last year, largely on account of higher borrowings to support capital expenditure and working capital needs.
Depreciation expenses also rose in line with capitalization of new projects. Share of profit/(loss) from associates and JVs stood at INR 55 crore for Q4 compared to INR 58 crore in the last quarter of FY24. While ventures such as DENSO TEN, Roki, TRMN, and TG continued to perform well, the transition of Minda Westport and Minda Onkyo into fully consolidated subsidiaries resulted in the financials being accounted for on a line-by-line basis, hence reducing the share of profits reported under this head by INR 5 crore.
Profit after tax attributable to Uno Minda for the quarter was INR 266 crore compared to INR 284 crore in Q4 FY24. However, it is important to note that previous year's figure included a one-time gain of approximately INR 20 crore from reversal of provision for interest on CUD related to EPCG, following a favorable Supreme Court ruling. Adjusting for this, the normalized PAT for Q4 was INR 265 crore.
Q4 FY24 was INR 265 crore. Sorry for that. Full year FY25 financial overview, you can refer to slide number 19, please. For the full year ended March 2025, consolidated revenues were INR 16,775 crore, achieving a 20% year-on-year growth. This significantly outpaced the broader auto industry volume growth of 9% for the same period, transitioning into over 2x industry volume growth against the company's long-term guidance of 1.5x. EBITDA for the year grew by 18% to INR 1,878 crore, with an EBITDA margin of 11.2% in line with our guidance.
Profit after tax attributable to Uno Minda stood at INR 943 crore, up 8% from 875 in FY24. As mentioned above, the growth in PAT excluding exceptional income is around 9%. This growth underscores the company's ability to scale operations effectively, maintain profitability, and deliver consistent shareholder value amid ongoing industry transformation and increased investments in future-heavy technologies.
Moving to business segment-wise performance, starting with switches, you can refer to slide number 20, please. Switching systems segment continued to demonstrate acceptable performance in Q4 FY25, contributing significantly to overall revenue mix. The segment recorded revenues of INR 1,144 crore during the quarter, accounting for a substantial 25% of the company's consolidated revenues, highlighting its critical role in our diversified product portfolio.
For the full fiscal year FY25, the switching system business achieved revenue of INR 4,204 crore, representing a robust 15% year-on-year growth compared to INR 3,663 crore in FY24. This performance underscores our strong market position and our ability to innovate in a segment that is evolving rapidly with changing automotive trends. The growth in this segment was driven by multiple factors. Firstly, the increasing trend of miniaturization across both two-wheeler and passenger vehicle segments, which has led to a rise in kit value per vehicle.
Second, exports played a pivotal role in driving growth, particularly in the two-wheeler switch category. Our international business saw strong traction during the year, reflecting our competitive cost structures, high-quality standards, and deep customer relationships with global OEMs. Moving to lighting systems, the business continues to be a cornerstone of Uno Minda's growth story, delivering another strong performance in Q4 FY25.
The segment generated revenues of INR 1,018 crore during the quarter, contributing a substantial 22% to the company's consolidated revenue. For the full year, lighting business recorded revenues of INR 3,863 crore, registering a healthy 15% year-on-year growth, driven by technological leadership and increased content per vehicle. Our strong show in both two-wheeler and four-wheeler lighting segments is a testament to Uno Minda's ability to stay ahead of industry trends through innovation.
In the two-wheeler segment, we have reinforced our leadership by becoming a major supplier of advanced lighting solutions for electric two-wheelers to leading OEMs. In light of the significant growth witnessed in the two-wheeler lighting segment over the past few years, our existing facilities at Sonipat and Bahadurgarh are now operating at full capacities, leaving little room for further expansion. To address this and support future growth, we plan to consolidate the three plants at these two locations into a new, larger facility to be built at Kharkhoda, Haryana.
This strategic move will not only increase our manufacturing capacity but also provide space for future expansion. The total estimated capital expenditure for this relocation and expansion, excluding land, is INR 233 crore. In the four-wheeler segment, our technological progress is gaining global recognition.
A notable milestone during the year was securing a prestigious order for the supply of advanced lighting systems for an autonomous robotaxi being developed by a leading American technology company. This order not only affirms our capabilities in high-end lighting solutions but also marks our entry into next-generation mobility platforms. To further advance our technological edge, we have established an R&D center in the Czech Republic.
This global innovation hub will focus on the development of next-generation automotive lighting technologies, including adaptive lighting, LED matrix systems, and integrated electronics. Looking ahead, we expect the positive momentum in the lighting business to continue, supported by the scaling up of operations at our new plant in Khed City and the ramp-up of production for recently acquired orders.
Moving to the casting business, the business also delivered a robust performance in Q4 FY25, generating revenue of INR 860 crore, accounting for 19% of group consolidated revenues. Of this, four-wheeler alloy wheel contributed around INR 471 crore, two-wheeler alloy wheel at INR 247 crore, and the aluminum die casting segment at INR 142 crore. For the full year, the casting business recorded revenues of INR 3,220 crore, reflecting a solid 14% year-on-year growth.
Of this, four-wheeler alloy wheels contributed INR 709 crore, two-wheeler alloy wheels INR 932 crore, and the aluminum die casting segment INR 574 crore. Both two-wheeler and four-wheeler alloy segments benefited from strong demand and the recent capacity expansion. We commenced production from an additional 30,000 units monthly line for four-wheeler alloy wheel at our Bawal, Haryana plant, bringing the total installed capacity to 420,000 wheels per month.
Construction of our greenfield facility is also progressing well at Kharkhoda, with the first phase of 60,000 wheels per month expected to be commissioned by Q2 FY26. On the two-wheeler front, we have commenced commercial production at our expanded Supa Maharashtra facility. This expansion adds 2 million units of capacity, raising the total to 8 million units annually. Additionally, we have announced INR 200 crore investment in the new two-wheeler alloy wheel facility at Bawal, with the planned annual capacity of 1.5 million units.
This facility is targeted for commissioning in Q2 FY27. Once the Bawal plant is operational, our total two-wheeler alloy wheel capacity will reach 9.5 million units annually, further solidifying our market leadership and supporting the Made in India vision. Moving to the seating system business, you can refer to slide number 13.
The business continued to contribute meaningfully to overall performance, generating revenues of INR 325 crore in Q4 FY25, accounting for 7% of consolidated revenues. For the full year, the segment reported revenue of INR 1,155 crore, which is the highest ever. Growth during the year was driven primarily by the commencement of the supply of pneumatic suspended seats to a leading domestic OEM and increased demand for bus passenger seats.
Notably, this growth was achieved despite a decline in exports, which was impacted by a downturn in the European market, particularly affecting one of our key customers. Looking ahead, we expect the seating business to sustain its growth trajectory, supported by recently confirmed orders and upcoming execution of new programs. Moving to the acoustic business, the segment reported revenues of INR 189 crore in Q4, maintaining a stable 4% contribution to consolidated revenues.
For the full year, the segment reported revenues of 5,763 crore, reflecting an 8% year-on-year decline. The domestic business grew by 7%, thus driven by sustained OEM demand. However, overall performance was impacted by persistent headwinds in the European automotive market, as our European subsidiary Clarton Horn declined by 14% year-on-year basis.
Moving to other products, where we have a lot of sunrise businesses, the other product business delivered strong performance, generating 992 crore in revenue during Q4 FY25, contributing 22% to the consolidated top line.
Within this, the controller business contributed to around 157 crore, sensors and ADAS 211 crore, blow molding products at 127 crore, Uno Minda FRIWO JV at 98 crore, and the alternate fuel business at 143 crore. The remaining revenue was driven by aftermarket trading external sales from Uno Minda CREAT in Europe and battery sales in the aftermarket channel.
For the full year, revenue from this segment grew by 60% to INR 3,571 crore, reflecting our strategic focus on emerging technologies and new mobility solutions. Our EV system vertical under Uno Minda FRIWO JV achieved revenues of INR 382 crore in just its second year of operations. Meanwhile, the sensor and ADAS business scaled to INR 804 crore, and our alternate fuel business through JV Westport grew to INR 501 crore, further validating our commitment to future-ready sustainable mobility solutions.
Moving to the EV segment, you can refer to slide number 16 and 17. We are pleased to note our success in positioning the company at the top of the league in terms of the product offering for E-two-wheeler components.
In line with our strategy to deepen our presence in the EV space, as you know, the company is in the process of acquiring the remaining 49.9% stake in its joint venture with FRIWO, along with associated eDrive technologies. This acquisition, valued at approximately INR 195 crore, is expected to be completed by the end of Q1 FY26, as originally initiated, enabling full integration and unlocking greater synergies in EV component manufacturing and open access to the global markets.
As per our stated strategy, we have also been working on strengthening our EV product portfolio for the four-wheeler EV segment. Towards that objective, we had entered into JV with Suzhou Inovance Automotive to manufacture high-voltage EV components covering charging control systems, inverters, motors, and e-axle. To support the growth of this venture, the board had approved INR 423 crore investment in a dedicated facility for high-voltage EV powertrain components.
Capital expenditure will be phased over the next two to three years, with phase one expected to be commissioned by Q2 FY27. The project will be executed through a new joint venture company, Uno Minda Auto Innovation Private Limited, with Uno Minda initially holding 100% equity. Upon receiving the regulatory approvals, Inovance Automotive through its Hong Kong subsidiary will acquire a 30% stake. We have already secured an anchor order for e-Axle, which will be manufactured at this upcoming facility. Moving to our aftermarket investor revenue, you can refer to slide number 14 and 15.
For the quarter ending March 25, the OEM segment continued to be the dominant contributor, accounting for 94% of our total revenues, while the aftermarket business contributed approximately 6%. Our aftermarket division reported revenues of INR 279 crore during the quarter. International sales currently represent around 10% of our total revenues, reflecting a steady upward trend.
While the industrial market remains a key pillar of our long-term growth strategy, our domestic business continues to deliver more pronounced growth. We would like to clarify that the ongoing U.S. tariff situation has no material impact on our operations, as exports to the U.S. constitute less than 2% of our total revenues. In fact, we have witnessed growing demand in the U.S. for our two-wheeler switch products, reinforcing our competitiveness in growth in global markets.
Moving to kit value, which is normally our annual slide, as you would see, we have witnessed an increase in potential kit value across all vehicle categories and segments for FY25. Increase in kit value for four-wheelers can primarily be attributed to the addition of sunroof, advanced lighting solutions, smarter ADAS and sensor solutions, and premium alloy wheels.
Increase in kit value for two-wheelers can be attributed to advanced lamps, smarter switches, and higher reliability for alloy wheels led by commodity price. Moving to our cash flow and debt levels, our net debt as of 31st March was at INR 2,091 crore, compared to INR 1,318 crore as of March 31, 2024. The net debt has increased on account of expansion CapEx as well as expenditure for land bank primarily at Kharkhoda and small adjacent plots of land at Bawal and Chennai, totaling to around INR 394 crore, and increased working capital requirement.
The total CapEx, excluding the land bank for the full year, was around INR 250 crore, while sustaining and growth CapEx has been financed from business cash flows with capital expenditure. Primarily land bank and increasing working capital requirement has resulted in incremental debt. Our net debt to equity as of 31st March 2025 stood healthy at 0.34%.
Moving to ROCE and ROE, we have achieved a ROCE of around 19% basis profit of FY25. Kindly note that the capital employed considered for calculation does include the CapEx for land bank as well as CWIP, which is currently not generating returns. ROE for FY25 is around 18%. The board has also recommended a final dividend of INR 1.50 per share, which is 75% of face value for shareholders' approval. Total dividend, along with interim dividend already paid, becomes INR 2.25 per share, which is 112.5% of the face value.
We have been persistently increasing our dividend payout ratio from 10% in FY19 to 13.7% now. With the double effect of increasing profits and increasing dividend payout ratio, our dividend payment amount has also increased due to 4X in the last few years to propose dividend payment of around INR 129 crore for FY25.
The above underscores our commitment to returning value to shareholders on a consistent basis. Moving to ESG, in line with the global best practices and in corporate governance, Uno Minda has separated the roles of Chairman and Managing Director. As you know, we had earlier announced the elevation of Mr. Mehra as Managing Director effective 1st April 2025, whereas Mr. Minda has transitioned to an Executive Chairman role.
With over three decades of rich experience and deep domain expertise, Mr. Mehra has been the key architect of Uno Minda's growth journey since 1995. In a proud milestone of its journey towards inclusive development, Uno Minda Limited (CSR Arm) has inaugurated its 18th Samarth-Jyoti Center in Kaggalipura, Harohalli, Karnataka. This expansion marks a renewed commitment to for fostering education, skill development, and community empowerment across India.
What began in 2012 with a single center in Naharpur, Haryana, has now evolved into a transformative movement. Each Samarth Jyoti Center serves as a vibrant hub of opportunity designed to uplift underprivileged communities. Vocational training in tailoring, beauty culture, and computer literacy, community schooling and remedial education for marginalized children, livelihood support and capacity building for women through self-help groups, preventive healthcare services for the underserved.
Guided by the belief that true empowerment must be both inclusive and accessible, the Samarth Jyoti initiative has grown to 18 centers across several states, positively impacting the lives of millions and inspiring hope, dignity, and self-reliance in every corner it reaches. As we look ahead, Uno Minda remains well positioned for sustainable growth backed by strong fundamentals, a diversified product portfolio, and ongoing investment in emerging technologies such as electric mobility, advanced electronics, and automotive lighting.
Our consistent ability to outperform the industry, delivering more than 1.5x volume growth compared to market averages, underscores the strength of our customer partnerships, our focus on innovation, and commitment to operational excellence. We will continue to invest in expanding both our capacities and capabilities. In FY26, we plan to incur a total capital expenditure of approximately INR 1,300 crore, comprising around INR 500 crore in sustaining CapEx and around INR 800 crore in growth-oriented CapEx, which is based on the current approved projects.
While we have built some strategic land bank in Kharkhoda and Khed City, we are in the process of continuation of building the same in other key automotive hubs such as Chhatrapati Sambhajinagar, Tamil Nadu, and Gujarat, for which we may spend around INR 50 crore in FY26. We have recently received the allotment letter for approximately 88 acres of land in Chhatrapati Sambhajinagar from Maharashtra government.
These investments will be primarily funded through internal accruals. With strategic capacity expansions, a healthy order book, and an enhanced focus on innovation, localization, and value addition, we are confident in maintaining our growth momentum. Despite a lot of plants which are coming into operation next year and also in the phase of initial growth, we continue with our guidance for an annual EBITDA margin of 11% plus or minus 50 basis points. While revenue growth will generate operating leverage, initial costs related to new plant startups and expansions may partially offset these benefits.
Nonetheless, we are entering the next phase of our journey with confidence, agility, and a clear vision. We remain committed to creating long-term value for all stakeholders and are excited about the opportunities that lie ahead. With this, I would like to now open up the floor for questions.
Thank you, sir. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Chandramouli Muthiah from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, and thank you for taking my question. My first question is just related to the U.K.-India FTA as well as the expected U.S.-India bilateral agreement. So I think in your slide four, you've mentioned that there could be additional opportunities for the local auto component industry from the U.K.-India FTA.
So if you could just give us some color on what is the current level of exports from India to the U.K. for auto components and what is the current level of imports, just to understand the balance of auto component trade there as well as where you see opportunities from this particular arrangement.
Yeah. Anything else, Chandu?
Yeah. So the second question is related to Uno Minda Auto Innovation Limited, the JV with Inovance. So you did mention that there is e-Axle, which is the first order that you've got.
So if you could just give us a rough idea of what the kit value is, when the SOP might happen there, and given that it's 70-30 equity arrangement, CapEx arrangement, is this going to be consolidated in our accounts or will it be share of profits from JV? That's the second question.
The last question is just around this quarter, we've had a lot of top-line growth, but the EBITDA growth is 11%. I think there's been a 90 b ps YOY drag on EBITDA margin. You explained part of that could be because of settlements which are still due from OEMs on raw materials. Just trying to understand what part of that 90 b ps drag in margin is due to the startup costs at some of these facilities that you've set up in the last couple of quarters. Those were three questions.
Okay. Thanks, Chandu. In terms of the first question on U.K.-India FTA and U.S.-India bilateral, so obviously U.S.-India bilateral discussion, whatever happens, as I said, we remain possibly optimistic. Hopefully, something good will come out based on whatever we are listening or hearing out from the government and the other sources.
In terms of the U.K.-India FTA, we all know that there are multiple factors wherein the path has been laid out by the government for the next 10 years as to how the rates eventually will come down. So as of now, we don't have any significant exposure to U.K. But in the past, we have been in touch with some of the customers. Hopefully, with this, some doors might open, but it's too early to comment on that in terms of opportunities.
But our point was more in terms of the sector per se, because if the rates and all come down, it will be hopefully positive for the entire sector from the automotive components perspective. From the second question was innovation JV, e-Axle value and SOP. So SOP, as we have mentioned, is in the middle of next financial year.
In terms of value, it's very difficult to give a value, Chandu, because while we do have a value for a per kit, obviously, which we can't share because of privacy information, a lot is also depending on in terms of the volume uptake, which we know this market is in terms of a phase where there are a lot of moving parts and it's a high-growth segment. So as of now, while we do have some value indication from our customers, we would not like to speculate in terms of what the values are going to be in future.
So the way we have done along with this CapEx is also that while we will construct this infrastructure in terms of land, building, utilities, etc., the plant and machinery we will do in a phased manner as we get the increase in the volume uptake.
And whether it will be consolidated or line by line or a share of profit, was there a question on this? Yes, it will be consolidated line by line because it is going to be eventually 30-30 JV, majority being Uno Minda Limited. So it will be consolidated line by line from Uno Minda perspective. Then your next question was top-line growth versus the EBITDA margin and the drop of 90 basis points compared to last year. As we said, last year, yes, there was some freight increase.
But in this quarter, in terms of the costs, which the startup costs you mentioned, which will be there sustainably, there is roughly around INR 19-20 crore of additional manpower cost which we have incurred during this quarter because of the number of increase in people during the quarter.
So that we believe, obviously, will be sort of a sustainable cost plus there are some other administrative expenses around similar numbers.
Got it. That's helpful. Thank you very much and all the best.
Thank you, Chandu.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Mumuksh Mandlesha from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity and congrats on the continued strong performance, sir. So firstly, can you help us understand this provision of fundraising of INR 2,500 crore? Would it be a debt-driven or equity, sir? Next. Sir, can you just update what could be the order size for this four-wheeler e-axle component and what could be the order size for the sunroof business and the charging business?
And thirdly, sir, the lighting revenue growth this quarter was lower. Also, we had the new plant in Pune last quarter just started. Any view for next few years based on the orders and the capacity? How do you see the growth and the market share in the lighting segment? And lastly.
Thanks. Yeah, sure. Please go ahead. Okay. So lastly. No, no.
Finish your question, please.
Yeah. Sure. Lastly, in the presentation, the two-wheeler EV specific CapEx has been changed. Just understand what has changed this quarter, sir? The two-wheeler and the EV system CapEx, sir.
Okay. So we'll get back to you on this last question, but going from starting. So the approval of INR 2,500 crore is an enabling approval. It is for both debt and equity. And as you would have seen, Mumuksh, we have been taking this approval every year.
Even last year, we had approval of roughly around INR 2,000 crore. This is only a labeling approval. As of now, we don't see any clear visibility in terms of any long-term need of the funds because based on the CapEx numbers what we have shared and the expected profitability, hopefully, we should be able to internally fund all the funding requirements. In terms of order size for e-Axle, as I little while mentioned to question from Mr. Chandramouli, it is very difficult to give an order size while we do have a number.
The biggest factor of that order is the volume, which obviously is only an expected number. So as I said, we don't want to speculate what the volume is going to be because at the end of the day, it's an advertisement and an adventure.
That's why we are not able to give you this order size. But I can tell you that the business which we have got is the state-of-the-art 6-in-1 e-Axle, which is the first in time which is going to be used in India, and we will be manifesting that at our Kharkhoda plant. In terms of sunroof for the another question, sunroof revenues, I think we have shared in the past. Based on the expected volumes indication, the revenues initially was estimated to be around INR 160 crore, but that number has been revised upwards.
The current visibility is that it will be roughly around INR 230 crore up to INR 40 crore of annual peak revenue for sunroof. For charging business, same as I said, again, there's EV part.
I would like to maybe be a little cautious in terms of giving numbers for anything related to EV as of now. Lighting revenue growth was lower, you said, and what is the next few years' plan? Lighting revenue growth has consistently been actually very good. If you see, for last year also, we have moved from around INR 3,300 crore of revenue to INR 3,800 crore of revenue, which is almost like 15-20% kind of growth, which is a significant number considering the industry growth numbers, which is single digit.
As we move forward to next year, as you would have noticed, that the board has approved today the setting up of the new two-wheeler lighting plant, which is primarily to cater to the increased volumes and the new businesses, which we are not able to now do from our existing plants because all these three plants are facilities that are very old and running very close to the capacity. In fact, there's not much scope beyond a year.
That's how maybe after a year, year and a half, we should be able to move to a new location. We do remain very optimistic on the lighting growth. In fact, this is the business where you know that the kit value also has been helping us to deliver this kind of outperformance in addition to the new technologies, LED lamps, etc.
So we do remain highly optimistic in terms of next three years, this business to continue to grow more than 1.5x of the industry growth, which has been in line with our guidance as well.
Got it. Thank you. Lastly, just clarify, lighting should continue to grow in double-digit kind of a range. That's fair to say.
Very difficult to say, Mumuksh, single digit, double digit, because you know that the biggest factor is the industry volumes. Now, if the volumes remain very low, then it's going to be difficult because that is not in our hands. So what we've been saying is we'd say, for example, if industry grow by 5 to 8%, then definitely we'll be growing by a double digit.
But if industry grow much less than that, then obviously it will be a situation where we have to see how do we still deliver that kind of revenue.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much for this.
Thanks, Mumuksh.
The next question comes from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura Holdings. Please go ahead.
Sir, hi there. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on the great set of numbers. My first question is on your sensors, controllers, and the Westport business. Seems while they have ramped up quite well if you look at on a YOY basis. So some colors there. How do you see the growth in the next few years in each of these three businesses? Where are the tailwinds which you are seeing and how to think about growth in these three businesses? That is one.
Second is on the alloy wheel side. If we see the growth what we are delivering now, is it more representative of the industry or do you still see in some segments there is sort of capacity constraint and with more capacities coming up, you can still continue to grow faster? And here, aftermarket seems to be a very small part while there is a lot of potential.
We have not seen that sort of going up in your aftermarket mix. So what are the thoughts there? And sir, lastly on the CapEx and investments, I have mentioned INR 1,300 crores. I believe there is another INR 200 crores you need to pay for the FRIWO stake acquisition. So some color, if you have accounted this here or that will be separate.
And for the FRIWO Inovance of INR 423 crore, how much have you accounted for in this number of 1,300 in FY26? That will be also.
Okay. Thanks, Siddhartha. Thanks for the compliments. So in terms of first question on sensor, controller, and Westport, the sensor business, you know, sensor and controller business, earlier we used to talk together and we took a target of growing it from INR 100 crore to INR 400 crore. And if you see this year itself, our sensors and controllers put together has been more than INR 1,100 crore.
So this business continues to be outperforming our own expectations led by a lot of innovations, new products, new technologies, etc. So the application of sensors has been increasing and so are the controllers. And we are optimistic of continuing this growth momentum at least in sensors and also in Westport.
We have been able to get a lot of new business in Westport, the CNG business. The government focus on improving the CNG infrastructure has actually helped the penetration. As you would have seen, almost most of our customers either have launched or in the process of launching our CNG vehicle. So that business is definitely very promising, and we do expect this business also to grow in terms of the outperformance, same 1.5 to 2x of the industry growth.
We do expect this business also to deliver. In terms of alloy wheel growth, you said, is it more representative of the industry and its capacity constraint? I would split this into two because of the different dynamics, both four-wheeler and two-wheeler. So four-wheeler business year on year has grown almost 15% from 1,350 crores to 1,340 crores. Now, obviously, the base is also becoming bigger.
And the another factor here is that the application ratio has not grown to the extent what we have assumed. While we do remain optimistic in terms of the application ratio to grow gradually to what the global levels are. But for last year, we are almost same as what the year before it was, maybe around between 42%-44% kind of range. And there has been no significant increase in the application ratio. And that's why you are seeing this number. But despite that, we have actually grown much more than industry growth.
Industry growth is 5%, but whereas we have grown by 15%. So it's definitely much more than industry growth. And its capacity constraint is a constraint in actually two-wheeler. So two-wheeler continues to run at full capacity. We have ramped up from 6 million to 8 million. It's operating at full capacity.
That's how we have seen announced capacity of another 1.5 million expansion. This business continues to sort of show promising signs of continued future growth. PSB seems small. What are the thoughts? We have been honestly working very hard in terms of improving our aftermarket business in terms of adding more dealers, more consumers.
But we all know that this has been facing significant challenges, maybe the cheaper imports or focus from our customers also directly from the aftermarket segment, which is good for us also in a way because whatever our customers also sell through their aftermarket channel is a sale also for us. But for us, we don't account that as an aftermarket sale. We account for that as a OE sale because it's at the same customer, same pricing, etc.
So that is why we are not seeing a significant move in PSB or aftermarket. But we continue to work on that. And as we speak, we are actually number one in terms of the volumes in India and number two in terms of the value in terms of our aftermarket revenues for last year. But to your point, yes, we do remain very committed on the medium to long-term growth of the PSB segment. In terms of FRIWO of investment of INR 195-200 crore, yes, it is separate. It is not part of INR 1,300 crore of the CapEx and sustaining our growth. It is not part of that.
That is perfect. Thanks. One clarification, this INR 40 crore annual charge which you mentioned, this will be from next year, right? It has not come in the current quarter. Will that be the right assumption?
Correct.
Sure, sir. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you.
A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yes, good evening and thank you for the opportunity. First question is on the JV on the four-wheeler e-Axle. So while we are investing the entire amount now and then the JV partner will be acquiring this 30% stake later on. If there is a delay in, say, government approvals, etc., for this 30% stake, would there be any kind of impact on the technology transfer or on the product development, etc.? Obviously, we have a timeline here in mind. So how would that work, sir?
No, so as I said, Mukesh, so originally to see, it was actually a TLA which we have entered into and which we wanted to convert it to a JV to make sure that we work as real partners and not technology partners. So the intent is very clear. And when we have gone today ahead with the JV, I can tell you that while in India, we need approval. In China also, they had approval. And they have also formally filed for approval in China.
And they are also very optimistic that they will get the approval. And so are we. But this is the process which we have to undergo. So in terms of commitment or in terms of product, there is nothing, no concern as of. And the business what we have secured, they are actually working very thoroughly.
In fact, we recently had a groundbreaking ceremony also where the entire team was here and they are fully committed. And we don't feel that any delay because of the government approval will delay our production or something like that.
Got it. Got it. And secondly, on the two-wheeler EV business, while we have been kind of clocking the run rate there on two-wheeler EVs, what I probably understand is that a lot of that business is still DC-DC converters and chargers, etc. But have we seen any major breakthrough with respect to traction motors, motor controllers, those kind of components for the two-wheeler EV business?
Yeah, Mukesh, you are right. So while initially it was more of DC-DC converters and chargers, yes, we have got a breakthrough in motor controllers, which we will be manufacturing in the coming financial year. We have already received the order.
It will be in SOP in the coming year. Motor, yes, remains a concern because we know that there will be a market crowded with a lot of players. And even the OEs are sort of in the process of having their strategy. You know how the large players have decided to do it in-house. So this is a business where we honestly seem to be having a hard time. But we are still working on it. Hopefully, something good will come out.
Right, right. Great, great. And just lastly, when I look at this slide where you're mentioning the project updates, seeing that we are talking about close to INR 3,000 crores of CapEx just on these projects. On top of this, we'll have obviously some land acquisitions, maintenance capex, etc.
So, in the next couple of years, the CapEx run rate seems to be like it's going to further be aggressively going up. So could you give some sense on what gives us this confidence? Are we seeing far more visibility of orders? Some sense there would help.
So Mukesh, you know that we normally don't commit for a project unless we have an order in hand. And the real example now is that once we got this order of e-Axle in hand, then only we committed into the project. So all the projects which currently we have announced, it is fair to assume we have a business in hand. So that's not a concern. Yes, normally there is always a challenge that you enter into a business with an anchor customer and then gradually ramp up.
But there also you will have seen multiple examples in the last few years, like alloy wheels for four-wheeler, alloy wheels for two-wheeler, etc. We have entered into a single customer and now we are serving almost all the key players. So it is the headstart what you need and the headstart once you get, especially you would like to capitalize on that. So that's not a concern. In terms of your second question of whether the CapEx run rate can further go, but very difficult to say at this point in time.
So if you would have seen even FY25 at the beginning of the year, whatever guidance we gave, we have been able to meet that guidance in terms of CapEx despite some of the new projects being announced during the year, right?
So as we move forward, the CapEx number year on year, you see, is broadly in line. But I'm sure we will deliver better growth or growth year on year with better margins in terms of absolute profitability. So hopefully we should be able to fund all these CapEx needs.
Got it. Got it. That's good to hear, sir. Thank you and all the best.
Thanks, Mukesh.
The next question comes from the line of Aditya Jhawar from Investec India. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you and congrats on good set of numbers. My first question, continuing with Mukesh's question on CapEx, so CapEx intensity seems to have gone up quite a bit. And looking at the breakup that you just gave, it clearly seems that this year the CapEx would be a tad higher as compared to last year.
Where it is very good that we are seeing that growth visibility. But there are two things here. Number one, how do we look at our FCF generation capability? Number two, till when we would continue to invest in land? So that would be the first question. Should I go ahead with the others?
Yeah, please do.
Yeah. Now, related to that, we are also seeing there's a moderate increase in debt. While overall debt to equity is still in manageable level, how do we think about repaying some of our debt? The third question is on the PLI. So how many products have we received approval on? And in your assessment, what could be the contribution of PLI in our overall top line? Yeah. So these are. And finally, question on overall growth outlook.
If you can give some sense that how are you seeing the growth by different subsegments? So what is the growth that you think could pan out in the two-wheeler category, in four-wheeler category? And you can call out specifically PV and CV. It would be good. That's it from my side.
Yeah. Thanks, Aditya. Thanks for the compliments. Your first point is CapEx have gone up quite a bit higher versus last year. Yes, you are right. But broadly in line. So last year, we did CapEx of roughly around INR 1,300 crores. This is what we are guiding for this year also. And last year, we did land investment of roughly INR 400 crores. And this year, it will be maybe something around INR 200-250 crores. And you said how long we continue to invest. Hopefully, after this, we should not be seeing any significant investment.
It will be all based on in case there is any new requirement in the area which there is a new business growth or something where we don't have land. Otherwise, like if you see today also when we have announced this project for the lighting two-wheeler expansion, fortunately, we have land in hand. So it is going into existing land. Another example is this clear land which was bought last year, year before. The EV for PV business is coming on that land. So it is not that we don't have visibility of what do we do with that land.
But we have actually been able to put this land immediately to use once we have been able to get control of this.
Otherwise, in the past, we have faced a delay of almost up to two, two years after the board approval to commence the work on the land or to get the land in control. So definitely, it's a very big positive from the readiness perspective because many times customers also look at in case they give business to anyone, what is his ability to meet their timelines. And once you have land in hand, definitely, it's a big plus from our perspective. Then you mentioned in terms of free cash flow.
So as you rightly mentioned, this year, there is an increase in debt even though the debt equity remains comfortable, but as we move to next year, based on our current working or current internal estimates, hopefully, we should be able to fund all the CapEx and land requirement through the internal accruals.
We should not see any significant increase in debt as we move to the next fiscal year. In terms of how do we think of repayment, definitely, initially, the repayment might be through refinancing of these debts. As we move forward, this point hopefully will come where our free cash injection is going to be higher than debt. Hopefully, maybe within FY25 itself. That's our internal target. If we get more opportunities for growth, then definitely, we would not like to leave those opportunities. It might be a Catch-22 situation.
As of now, based on whatever we know today, hopefully, we should be cash positive in this year itself. In terms of PLI, when I say cash positive, that's also after the CapEx repayment.
In terms of PLI, number of products approved, we have got approval for three or four products which are primarily sensors, different types of sensors. And contribution to top line, definitely, it's not significant. It is very small. So not like to speak about it at this point in time. But there are a lot of products which are currently in the workings which will qualify. Because to qualify, you have to first manufacture and meet that 50% DVA commitment.
Then only based on actuals, you can apply to the government and the regulatory authorities, be it ICAT or ARAI for certification. So that's where I think we are. And hopefully, next fiscal year, we should have one or two products more which will hopefully qualify in the PLI scheme. In terms of overall growth outlook and different segments, we don't want to guess the numbers, Aditya.
But we all know that while our guidance has been to grow at least 1.5x of the industry growth, we have been doing much more than that. And we do have our budgets made, which is primarily on a single-digit, low single-digit growth for PV segment, single-digit growth for a two-wheeler segment. And with that, hopefully, we should be able to deliver at least 1.5 times to 2x growth in the coming years.
Okay. Thank you. And all the best.
Thanks, Aditya.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Chandramouli Muthiah from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for taking my follow-ups. So first follow-up is just related to, I think, a comment that you made to an earlier participant. There is potential for margin expansion by OY.
So I just want to understand, is this likely to be more second-half weighted when industry might start to see more visible volume pickups? Or do you expect this kind of margin attempt to be sort of evenly spread across the year?
So the margin, what Chandramouli has been guiding, is a blended margin across all. So we have a lot of these projects which are currently either in the construction phase or in the commissioning phase, or they are maybe in the first year of operation. And all these projects do have these startup costs. So if you see our margin even for last year was on a full-year basis around 9.2, 9.3%. This year also around 9.2%. And next year, we are also guiding same 11% plus minus 50 basis points.
This is despite the fact that all these projects like we just spoke about, somebody said about INR 300 crore of CapEx and 12 projects undergoing. Some of these projects will come into operation next year. Some of the projects have come in operation this year. So all those incremental costs have been baked into when we gave this guidance. If you exclude that, actually, you would have seen the benefit of operating leverage in terms of margin expansion.
But because of so many projects coming on board, it does have the startup cost, initial cost, people cost, admin cost, whereas you don't see any profitability in first year or two. So all these costs are factored in the margin guidance already.
Got it. That's helpful. And just a couple of follow-ups.
So on FRIWO, I think from the quarterly disclosures you've given, it looks like it's about INR 382 crore in annual revenue. Just trying to understand what the EBITDA and impact would be there as we look to consolidate that into our financials. And just a couple of data follow-ups. If you could share the alloy wheel revenues for two-wheelers for the quarter once again, and also the electric two-wheeler business revenue that you might have done this quarter.
Okay. So Chandramouli, I might disappoint you in terms of margin for a business. It won't be a business-wise margin. We stopped almost like five years back based on the feedback that it's being counterproductive for us. So that, I'm sorry, will not be good to give.
But from other questions, [audio distortion] two-wheeler revenue for the quarter, our [audio distortion] the quarter revenue was full year was INR 932 crores and quarter was INR 250 crores roughly. And for EV two-wheeler, which is the JV, which has done INR 382 crores for the full year, the last quarter, it has done revenues of roughly INR 95 crores.
Got it. But I think you were doing a run rate with sales to EV two-wheeler companies of roughly between INR 160 to INR 240 crores. So just want to understand that likelihood number if you're able to provide for 4Q.
Yeah. So I remember last quarter, we said that this is something which we started doing only because a lot of people have questions around that. So that's stopped. But probably the numbers are in that range only, despite the volume problem.
Got it. Makes sense. Makes sense. Thank you very much and all the best.
Thanks, Chandramouli.
The next question comes from the line of Abhishek Jain from Alf Accurate Advisors. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question on the seating business, we have seen a revival on the seating business after many quarters. So just wanted to understand what the key reasons are, how much are those?
I'm sorry to interrupt, Abhishek. You're not audible. Could you please come to an area where the network is better? Thank you.
Are you able to hear me?
Yes.
So my question on the seating business, we have seen a revival on the seating business after many quarters. Just wanted to understand what is the reason and what would be the growth for seating business ahead?
So Abhishek, seating business, as I said initially in my brief, the growth has been driven by primarily the new customer addition and startup supply of pneumatic suspended seats and also the bus passenger seats in the domestic market. And a lot of these businesses which we have been able to drive growth, we do expect all these levers to continue the momentum in the next fiscal year and forward as well.
Okay. And in acoustic business, we have seen a degrowth in the last many quarters. Just wanted to understand what would be the key reasons for the growth going ahead in this business?
So as I said in my brief, Abhishek, if you would have noticed, the India business continued to do stable in terms of the growth which is mirroring the industry growth because we are almost 60%-65% market share.
But because of our operations in Spain, which is in the Clarton Horn , that's where we have seen the drop. In fact, the last quarter itself, the year-on-year drop is almost, I think, 26 crores or something because of significant lower volumes. It is not loss of share of business, but vehicle volume itself is significantly lower, which is what has been cooling down. And this is what we have been sharing for the last, I think, four quarters of the challenges or the elements being faced in the European business.
All right. And my last question on the content per vehicle on the e-Vitara. So how much is the current content per vehicle in e-Vitara and how much increase is expected once the e-Axle will start to produce?
Sorry, Abhishek. I'm sorry to disappoint you. We don't give vehicle-wise takeaways.
Just wanted to understand how much difference in the content per vehicle on the EVs versus passenger vehicle right now?
Abhishek, it's the same thing.
Sorry, sir?
It's same.
It's the same. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sunil Bohra to give his closing remarks.
I would like to thank everyone for joining the call. I hope we have been able to respond to most of your queries adequately. For any further information, we request you to please do get in touch with us directly. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Uno Minda Industries, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.