Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Ahluwalia Contracts Q3 FY 2023 Results Conference Call hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Please note that a copy of the release is available on the investor section of the website as well as the stock exchanges. Please do note that anything said on this call, which reflects outlook towards the future or which could be construed as a forward-looking statement, must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, I welcome you all to Ahluwalia Contracts Q3 FY 2023 and nine-month FY 2023 post-result call to discuss the current state of affairs and the way forward we have from the management, Mr. Shobhit Uppal, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. Vikas Ahluwalia, Whole Time Director, Mr. Satbeer Singh, Chief Financial Officer. We will begin this call with opening remarks from the management, and then we'll follow it up with the interactive Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Hi. Welcome, everybody. Satbeer, can you make the opening remarks?
Yes. Yes. This is Ahluwalia Contracts and our financial results for Q3 FY 2023. During the year Q3 FY 2023, the company achieved turnover of INR 743.25 crore and PAT of INR 45.01 crore in comparison to turnover of INR 683.50 crore and PAT of INR 42.33 crore in Q3 FY 2023. EPS of the company for Q3 FY 2023 is INR 6.72 compared to INR 6.32 in corresponding last quarter. During Q3 FY 2023, the company's EBITDA margin is 10.53% as compared to 10.989%, and PAT margin 6.06% as compared to 6.919% in the corresponding period. During the nine-month financial year 23, the company achieved turnover of INR 1,975.34 crore and PAT of INR 121.95 crore in comparison to turnover of INR1,961.60 crore and PAT of INR 112.90 crore during nine months ended financial year 23. EPS of the company for nine months financial year 23 is INR 18.20 compared to INR 16.1885 in nine months ended financial year 2023.
During nine months financial year 2023, the company's EBITDA margin is 10.86% as compared to 10.75%, and PAT margin is 6.17% as compared to 5.76% in the corresponding period. Net order book of the company is INR 8,113.14 crore to be executed in the next 24-30 months. Total order employed during current year till date is INR 4,017.63 crore, and we are holding one project amounting to INR 663 crore.
Besides that, general information. This is working capital days is 63 days, and cash position is INR 297.68 crore, bank position INR 168.83 crore, retention money INR 193.27 crore, mobilization advance INR 283.96 crore, unbilled revenue INR 415.86 crore, inventory INR 231.21 crore, debtors INR 456.76 crore, and retention money total INR 193.27 crore, sales total INR 662.76 crore, interest-bearing mobilization advance 41%, fixed price contract is 30%, and regarding order book, this is type-wise, commercial 6.73%, infrastructure 11.75%, institutions 39.82%, residential 11.56%, hospital 29.35%, hotel 0.79%. Regarding sector-wise, government 82.46%, private 17.54%, and region-wise, east 41.98%, north 35.82%, west 11.46%, south 5.30%, and overall 5.44%. Now you may proceed, please.
Hello. We are ready to take questions.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mr. Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, congratulations are in a very good state of order inflow , especially for the nine months. My main question is on the revenue guidance. I think we were expecting some jump, some incremental substantial jump in Q2, which hasn't happened in this quarter. Can we expect the Q4 to be slightly better? And are you still holding onto the margin and revenue guidance, or are you revising it?
Yeah. Hi, Mohit. So yeah, we are holding onto our revenue guidance of 10%-15% year- on- year. If you see, we have jumped from the last quarter. We have jumped more than 20%. And traditionally, the Q4 always when that run rate is the highest. So yeah, we think we will cross INR 3,000 crore of the revenue in this entire financial year.
Am I guiding it to 10%? Is that number right, sir?
Yes. Yes.
Second question around the order inflow. Of course, we had a very good fiscal year to nine months. How do you see Q4 and any large opportunities which you would like to highlight?
The pipeline is good, but we are being conservative going forward. I think there is a competitive intensity that continues to be high. So since we already have a good order book appetite, we're not that hungry. So still, there are a few marquee private sector clients for whom we've submitted bids. Over the next couple of months, the focus is going to be more on private sector clients.
Just on the current order book, sir, how do you see revenue for FY 2024?
So I did say that there would be a firm round that we would get a target of 15% growth in FY 2024.
Understood. Thank you. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Shravan Shah. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. And congratulations for a strong order improvement this year. So just wanted to clarify, you said for this year, we are looking at more than INR 3,000 crore revenue. So that comes close to 12% kind of a growth. So just trying to understand, so to achieve that, we need at least INR 1,000 crore plus kind of a revenue in Q4 . So are we confident?
Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. If you see, traditionally, Q4 may not increase much. We've done about INR 750 crore in Q3. So there's a 20% jump. Between Q3 and Q2, there was a 20% jump. And we think we can get that 20% jump in Q4.
Okay. Okay. That's great. Secondly, just in terms of the EBITDA margin, I think you last time mentioned 12% including other income, and just in the answer to the previous participant, you said 10%. So just wanted to clarify because till now, in terms of the including other income, it is 10.9%. So just trying to.
It's about 11%. It's about 11% where it stands as of now. So I am giving the guidance that it will be around that for this.
Okay. 11%. So even for the next year, will it remain at 11%, or will it?
No, it should go up. It should go up.
Closer to 12% that we are looking in.
Yeah. Okay.
Just to clarify on the INR 663 crore L1, so is it the Tata Memorial still L1, or this is a separate order?
This is only Tata Memorial.
It is the same. Okay. Previously, I think it was INR 710, so you mentioned INR 663. So just wanted to clarify, and any update in terms of when it will be getting converted into order?
We feel that maybe it may happen in this financial year towards the end of this financial year, end of March.
Okay. And in terms of the bid pipeline, what is it, and how much is the private and in terms of the central and state guidelines, and do we see any further order inflow in one and a half months?
Yeah. There should be maybe around INR 4,500 crore. And my answer to Mohit's question, I did mention that we are now a little more focused on the private sector. So because we want to hedge our bets as far as the financial concerns.
Okay. So other than the bid pipeline, I guess that right now is how much and how much is out of that is private?
It's about INR 3,000 crore, and about 40% is private.
Okay. Okay. 40% is private. And in terms of the CapEx, how much we have done it for nine months and what is left? And because last time you were saying close to INR 50-INR 60 crore this year and next year. So just wanted to recap on that.
Yeah. So Shravan, this year, we've done a CapEx of about INR 80 crore because of the sudden jump in the order book and a lot of new projects starting in new geographies like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Assam, and also Maharashtra, we have exceeded our CapEx target. And that is to be expected because of these new projects. So it's about INR 80 crore, and in the last quarter, it should be about INR 8 crore.
Okay. And next year, will it come down to?
Yeah. It will come down. It will come down.
Okay. Okay. Shobhit, sir, if you can repeat all the numbers. Actually, I was not able to write it up in terms of order book and the benefit numbers. So if you slowly, if you can speak up.
Yeah, please. Okay. Working capital days is 53 days, and cash equivalent is INR 297.68 crore. Bank position is INR 158.83 crore. Retention money INR 193.27 crore. Mobilization advance INR 283.96 crore. Unbilled revenue INR 415.86 crore. Inventory INR 231.21 crore. And debtors INR 466.76 crore. Interest bearing mobilization advance 41%. Trade payables INR 652.76 crore. Fixed price contract 20%. CapEx. And besides that, you want order book also?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir. As it is, the percentage-wise commercial, INR 6.73 crore, 73%. Infrastructure, 11.75%. Institutional, 39.82%. Residential, 11.56%. Hospital, 29.35%. Hotel, INR 0.79%. And about sector-wise, government 82.46%. Private, 17.54%. Region-wise, eastern, East region 41.98%. North region 35.82%. West 11.46%. South 5.30%. And overseas 5.44%.
Okay. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone phone. The next question is from the line of Mr. Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
So a couple of questions from my side. First, what have been the payments from the state government? Are we seeing some challenges, etc., there? Or they continue to be regular? And second, on the bid pipeline, which are the segments that we are targeting? You mentioned that we are maybe looking at more private sector orders going ahead. So will these be in the institutional segment, or are we open to taking orders even from the private residency side?
Yeah. So the bid pipeline, as I said, we focus on the private sector. Private sector, we bid for a few hospital projects. Have bid and are bidding for a few hospital projects and some commercial projects. As far as the residential district is concerned, we are slowly started looking at residential developers with proven track record. We're doing our due diligence, and we are not averse to taking up some jobs, but limited in number. What was your first question? I think I answered the second and the third one.
Sir, about the payments from the state government.
Yes. So yeah, the situation is improved in this quarter. Bihar, I'll start with Bihar. There is a substantial improvement. The financial closure for the Dahlias project has happened, and the concerned department has got the first tranche of payments, and we will be getting back soon. As far as the two hospitals that we are doing, Nalanda, preliminary inauguration was done by the chief minister. We've been eyeing completing the entire project by May, June. And we have got about INR 100 crore of stock payment last month in that project. Similarly, the Chapra project, because that is the deputy chief minister's constituency, we've been told funds will start flowing in that project also. So there is a substantial improvement in Bihar. As far as Bengal is concerned, we have completed. We were doing two projects, or three projects in the state government.
The two projects are over in Milan Mela, where most of our payments have come in. As far as the authority is concerned, those are being certified. Our final bill is under check. That project is also complete. It's slated for inauguration in March. One project, housing project for HIDCO. That project is going on, and payment does not seem to be an issue there. So that is, as far as payments from state government is concerned. Another, we've made a foray into Assam. We're doing two projects for the state there. There, we have good cost control.
Apart from this, sir, because upon the project in which we take, it would also be great if we could touch upon some of our other major projects like the Mandale Depot, and some of the hospital projects that we're doing.
Yeah. I should have mentioned Himachal also. We are doing two hospitals for the state government there, and when the elections were happening, I mentioned in my last call, there were cash flow issues, but funds have started flowing there also. The Hamirpur project in Himachal, we are targeting in August 2023 completion, and the Chamba, we are targeting a completion by October-November. As far as the Jammu hospital is concerned, we are also targeting a completion by the end of this year. Based on that project's success, that is a central government project. Funds have not been an issue there till now. As far as Mandale is concerned, work there is also progressing, and if you've gone through the new order into detail, there is a INR 60 or INR 70 crore of structural steel work that has been added, obviously through a tender, so that project is proceeding fine now.
Great. Last question for Shobhit. Sir, do we have any loans or borrowings in advance?
No. Zero.
Sure. Thanks. That's it from my side and all the best, Shobhit.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So my question is on margins. So it's almost 14 quarters now where we have not hit the double-digit mark in terms of EBITDA margins. So even last quarter, we said that second half, we are looking to improve our margins, the range of 10%-13%. And now, again, we have downgraded it to 11%. Even Q3 has been weaker than first and Q2 in terms of EBITDA margins. So how do we read this EBITDA margin trajectory? Because I will try to retrace that things will be better in the coming quarters. But again, we actually are not able to improve on the margins. Now, the commodity prices have actually reduced. Even then, we are not getting that margin benefit.
Hi, Parikshit. First of all, let me correct you. We have double-digit EBITDA margin, right?
This quarter, 9.6% margin.
Oh, it's about as good. Other income is 10%-10.9%.
No, no, sir. I'm excluding other income.
Okay. So if you exclude the other income, then yeah, it's at about 10%. And there have been factors. Commodity prices, you mentioned commodity prices are yo-yoing. Again, the steel prices have gone up again. And so there is so we have, as I said, at the end of the year, we've been at a guidance of about 11%. And if you do a peer comparison, I think we are much above our peers. I have a chart in front of me. If you look at the profit ratios or PAT ratios, we are much better off, right?
But why? If it's a new order which is coming in now, so I assume that they are taking up, assuming the elevated.
They are design-build orders. It's now that the first three to four months, we're in the designing. And you know the infrastructure costs and everything. Everything is there. It's only now the orders that we've got in the last two quarters, we have broken ground on some, but on a large number of these, probably we're breaking ground now.
Remember, competitive intensities on the side. I know when building tender, there are a handful of contractors [inaudible] INR 300 or INR 400 crore projects. For a single project, I would suggest a handful of contractors, maybe seven, maybe five to six, maybe five to ten maximum. But why does the intensity still remain so high? So we know there are a few contractors who are largely positioned towards Southern India and large order zones, and there are a few in Western, some are in North. But still, we see that margin is much lower versus other EPC segments like road and all where we see 13%-14% margin. And where there are a large number of players present in those segments. Why in building segment, we continue to see most of the developers, most of the players reporting only early double-digit or high single-digit kind of margins?
So if you can give some color on competitive intensity, because what we understand, the demand continues to be very robust. The private real estate is doing so strong. It seems to be on an upcycle. All the factors seem to be falling in place, especially on the demand side.
As I said last time, Parikshit, there is bound to be consolidation in the medium term here. Because of the fact that the competitive intensity is high, that is why we are being very, very conservative and careful. As far as the road construction, this thing is concerned, the EBITDA margin is very high. But you see a lot of those players having cash flow issues, and they are now trying to move to the building segment. Be it the Ashoka Buildcon of this world or other infra players like KEC. You see a lot of them with Dilip Buildcon coming and even picking up private sector jobs in the building segment. So while I don't know, I'm not intimately involved with the road sector, but this is a pointer that obviously things are not hunky-dory there.
As far as we are concerned, to answer your question about single-digit margins or lower margins, I think to alleviate cash flow problems, people are bidding indiscriminately and trying to pick up more jobs to get at mobilization advances. We don't do that. In fact, if you heard the figure that Satbeer said, that we have actually the mobilization advance interest-bearing is only 41%. We have only availed interest-bearing advance on 40% of our jobs. Slowly but surely, we're building cash reserves to ensure that we don't, in the next three years or so, our target is to absolutely stop availing the mobilization, interest-bearing mobilization advances from various clients. So that is how we are consolidating. Another thing that we are doing is today, we are present in 16 states.
That's a question which you asked me in the past also, why are we not going to work with certain parts of the country? We are there now. We've moved to Assam also. So that we go into areas where the competitive intensity is less. The projects, three projects that we've started in Assam, where we feel our margins are going to be higher because proven and tried construction companies there are lesser. Similarly, we've started, we've piggybacked on one of our existing clients, Amity. We've started two campuses for them in certain parts of the country, one in Hyderabad, one in Bangalore. So that is why I'll say that in the coming quarter, our EBITDA margin is going to go up.
Okay. Sure, sir. Hope that we come back to our older margins of 12%-13% range. Wish you all the best. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Parikshit.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Sandip Sabharwal from asksandipsabharwal.com. Please go ahead.
Sir, the part obviously about Ahluwalia, unlike other construction companies, your debt profile, you don't have any debt, whereas other companies are loaded onto debt. However, I think taking off from what the last participant asked, because this was a specific question I actually asked you in the last conference call on the quarter three margin, you said that from quarter three onward, it will be 12%. So now, the only question I want to ask is that when you talk about margins, how do you estimate or based on the projects you are doing, you estimate that because in three months, from what you said you'll achieve, the actual margins are more than 1% lesser?
Yeah, so Mr. Sabharwal, it's not an estimate per se. There is a certain degree of getting involved. But there are projections that are made on every project, quarter and quarter, and they are reviewed. But as you know, if you are tracking this industry closely, as you know, there are a number of factors which can be planned for. I'll give you an example. In the last quarter, there was a strike. Raw material strike in Bangalore. It lasted for almost a month, right? So A, not only did it impact our revenue, but it also impacted the pricing. When the process restarted again, the transporters hiked their prices by 20%. One. Secondly, you must be aware of when the work stops during the ban it stops in Delhi or NCR by the NGT. Now, while that happens every year, this year, it happened in fits and starts, right?
It was shut down for seven days, then it started shut down for 15 days, then it started shut down for seven days. So factors such as this can't really be planned. These do impact progress or do impact margins. And that is why, and it's not only that they impact all of them. They impact construction companies across the board.
Right. So I think all your points are very well taken. And in fact, if you could, in the initial commentary, also try to explain these issues, then I think the doubts would go away as such. But I think.
Your point is well taken.
[crosstalk] Your point is well taken. I think it's a very good company, and I hope you do well in the future.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sabharwal. And your point is well taken. We will, based on our projection or guidance, when we start off the call, we will bring all of you up to date on where we've been found lacking or where we've exceeded our guidance. Thanks. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ms. Deepika from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Congratulations on beating performance and strong order and flow in this quarter. So my first question is regarding the order books. Now, as you said, most of the new orders are, as you said, are design-build. And the design-build is going to take at least three-to-four months. So what percentage of order book is executable in Q4 ?
Sorry, Deepika, can you repeat that? You said what percentage of the order book is executable in Q4 ? Is that what you said?
Yeah. In terms of revenue, because while the design-build is going on, isn't it contributing revenue and margins, right?
Yeah, not much. The revenue is, I imagine, minuscule for designing. Though we do get some payments when we submit our drawings, but it's not a large amount. So as I said, a large part of this new order book happened in the last quarter. We should, to give you an example, we won the redevelopment for Chandigarh and Panchkula railway station. So the designing has been happening for two months, two and a half months. We should break ground in this quarter on that project. Similarly, the Central University project in Dharamshala and Dehra in Himachal, that also design and environmental approval are through. We should be breaking ground in the month of March there.
So I think barring about 70-800 crore worth of projects where designing will happen in the last quarter and breaking ground will happen in the Q1 or next financing year, we are good to go on all the other jobs.
Very well. For these new projects, again, on margins, at what margin have you taken these new projects?
So as I mentioned in response to one of the earlier questions, in some of the newer states that we forayed into, so Bangalore, where we are piggybacking on an existing client, and Assam, the margins should be higher. But in other states or in Delhi, the margins are roughly on the lines that we are declaring now.
Very well. Now, sir, most of the fixed-price contracts shall be getting over in the coming quarter. And the new projects will start. So where do we see margins affect going to go? And that's excluding other income.
So I did mention about 12%.
12%. Sorry, sir, you said 12%, right?
EBITDA, yes. Yes.
Yeah. Okay. Just lastly, the status on NIT Patna and Adani Data Center projects? You can mention.
NIT Patna, yeah, as I said, this is one of the projects which we won in the last quarter. Design has been approved. We've broken ground. In fact, we've started work on the structural package. There are totally about 32 buildings. We have started work on 11 buildings. And the other one, which was the other project you asked about?
Adani Data Center.
Adani Data Center is happening. Adani Data Center is happening. And this is not a design-build project. This is just a core and shell project with some finishing items. This has been going on. And total value of our job here is about INR 210-odd crore. And we have done a billing of about INR 60 crore, INR 50, INR 55 crore.
You shall complete this project by this year.
Yeah. The target is this year and it's proceeding fine. There is no, we see, no let up from Adani's side to slow down the project. All payments are coming in.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Mr. Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. One question is on management profile and the work allocation between you, sir, I mean, Mr. Shobhit and Mr. Vikas. So how exactly the work is divided between you, sir?
So the management functions are handled jointly in terms of reviewing of the administrative functions and functions such as supply chain control and audits. All the digitization and such functions are controlled by Mr. Vikas Ahluwalia. As far as regional allocation or control are concerned, Mr. Vikas Ahluwalia is handling Maharashtra. He's handling Assam. And he's handling all railway infrastructure projects. We have one, and we are bidding for a few others. As far as South is concerned, as far as East is concerned, and as far as NCR is concerned, that I am handling.
Okay. Sure, sir. And next is on, I think there was a commenting. It was mentioned fixed-price contracts at 20% of the order book. Was that right, [inaudible]?
So please, can you comment on that?
It is 20% fixed-price, sir. [crosstalk] Yes, 20%. And that is coming out around 89% per year.
Okay. And sir, will you have this number for, I mean, maybe two, three quarters away? Just trying to understand how exactly the new order will have been if the number is available.
For the moment.
[crosstalk] this is 20%. And quarter one, this is 15%.
Let me also, and we will reach out to Satbeer separately. We'd like to clarify this further. Now, fixed-price contract in a government or a public sector order means, like say, NIT Patna, which has just started, right? This is a fixed-price contract where there is no escalation. So typically, fixed-price in a government order means that there is zero escalation. But in a private sector, fixed-price, say, for instance, you're doing a project with RT, RD, RSD, and DEN, it's a fixed-price contract. But for key materials, there are base prices. Do you understand? So say, for cement and steel, where the prices are very volatile, either, like in RT's case, steel is being supplied by them free of cost, okay?
Right? So there being inflation. Cement, there is a base price. So any upward or downward movement of pricing is a cost too.
So this happens typically with a lot of private clients. Say for RMZ, for instance. It's not only these two materials, but a host of other materials such as tiles, marble, where the escalation has passed through.
Okay. Sure, sir. Maybe I'll connect with Mr. Singh. But when you say 20% of the order book, so this will have both private and public.
Yeah. It will have both. That's why I clarified this.
Okay. Right, sir. And just one more clarification. Sorry for hopping on the same thing. I think the bidder margin is varying in the range of 9.5%-10%. We are seeing it will be the same number, 9.5%-10%, but next year, 12%.
Yes. We are aiming or hoping to close this year at about 11%.
Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. Yes, sir. That's all from my side. Thanks a lot for all the clarifications.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from HDFC Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
I'm present, sir. I am ready.
Mr. Kanodia, your voice is a little low. Can you come a little closer to the phone?
Is it better now?
No, sir. It's still the same.
Hello?
Yes, sir. You can go ahead now.
Yeah. Good evening, sir. So just wanted to, like I was saying, just to make a note from Mumbai, I just wanted to know what is the order book and order inflow?
The order book is at INR 8,113 crore, and the order inflow is INR 4,017 crore.
So can you repeat the order info?
4,017 crore.
Okay. What is the guidance for the fourth Q4 for order info?
About 500 crore.
Okay. INR 500 crore. Okay. So that's all my questions. Thank you, and best of luck.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Mr. Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
So, Shobhit sir, I just wanted to clarify, sir, what you are mentioning in terms of the exit margin. I think you need to mention that it is including the other income.
Yes, sir. [crosstalk]
Yeah, because the previous participant who has asked, they were looking at without the other income because that's the number normally as an analyst we look at without other income. So that's what even I think the policy was also mentioning the same number, 9.6%, and you said that this quarter had a double digit. So whatever we are saying, the 12% for next year, 2024, that is including the other income.
Yes, it is, so please, we need to clarify this, and whenever any investor reaches out to us, we should be clear. We should mention both, actually.
We'll correct.
Thank you.
Yeah. Or maybe from the next quarter, you can talk about the margin without the other income and other income, whatever you want to separately want to mention, you can mention.
Because also our other income is also from our operations or related to operations. Let me put it that way. We don't have any other business. But anyway, I think your point is well taken, sir, too. We will mention both separately. We will clarify this.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my question pertains to our Kota payment that comes through. So how does our payment is shaping up right now?
Vikas, do you want to answer that? [inaudible]
Kota. [inaudbile] . Sorry, the Ahluwalia's in the car, I heard something Kota. Can you repeat? I could not hear you properly.
[inaudiblke]
So Kota is now we have nearly 85% occupancy, and the vendors are now coming better. In fact, post-COVID, the sales at the stores have been much better, and it's picking up. I mean, for example, in December, January, we clocked the highest footfall was around three and a half lakh people. And then on 25th January, it was something similar, and their sales have been good. In fact, we are now operationally, we are properly removed the margin of the interest. What is? Yeah, operationally profitable.
What do you mean?
It's operationally profitable. I'm not getting that word. Depreciation, yeah. If you need the depreciation from there, then yes, that is an operating profit.
Okay. Okay.
The mall is not self-sustaining now, in fact.
Okay. Okay, and one question, Shobhit, sir, please take the investor presentation. The last time also, I requested for the investor presentation. This time also, we have not got the investor presentation from your side.
Yeah, that was noted already. You can see that.
Okay. Okay. That was from my side.
On the best case.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is that while we have given some indication of the margins, in terms of the capital intensity of our business, so we run a fairly light capital business. Our asset turns, gross asset turns are probably exceeding six times. And so even at a margin of where we are, we do like 16%-17% ROE. My question is that as we get into newer segments or newer states, is this the character of the business that we will maintain, or will we tend to invest more in CapEx and probably become a little more asset-heavy than what we have been in the past?
Hello? Can you connect Shobhit again? Hello?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir, connecting. Mr. Shobhit, Uttam is connected to the call again.
Oh, it's actually for Vikas.
I am. But this should be mentioned in the interview.
Should I go ahead, sir, with my question?
Yes, please. I'm sorry, the call dropped, so I have to join in again.
Right. Please go ahead, Ashish.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So, sir, my question was that while you have indicated the level of margins to expect at the EBITDA level, but also on the capital intensity of the business, so we have a fairly high asset turn, and despite the margins which are sub 10%, we still manage probably 16-17% ROE thereabouts. So as we diversify, as we get into newer states, as we get into newer segments, do we maintain this kind of capital intensity, a very light capital intensity business, or incrementally, we'll have to invest more in terms of CapEx, more in terms of working capital as well? So even though our margins may go up, but the capital intensity in the business may also actually increase. I mean, how to look at it from a two to three-year horizon?
See, I did mention that the last quarter, or we've invested close to about 40-odd crore because we forayed into newer geographical locations, and I think it will slow down now. Even in the last quarter, it will be about in this Q4 that we are talking about, we are at 8 crore, and I think our geographical footprint will not increase as much now going forward. We are only in 16 states, so you know we want to tread cautiously, so in the following year, to be specific, in 2024, the CapEx will be lower than what we've done this year, what we're going to do this year.
Okay. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Mr. Rajat Setiya from iThought PMS. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, with regards to this Kota project, any thoughts about selling that project at whatever value we can deploy the same capital in our own business where we can generate return on capital of 15%-20%?
Sir, we are not investing in Kota anymore if you, again, like I said, if you depreciate anything that you consider. But now the mall is self-sufficient. In fact, I would also like to state that we are probably the first mall in Kota where we are running all the common electricity on solar. So our electricity bill, which is one of the highest consumptions of capital or bill or whatever it is, is coming down significantly. So that is also adding to the margins in the Kota.
Sir, I mean, economics is certainly improving, and we are doing a better job. But at the end of the day, we are not in the business of running the mall. So how do you look at that aspect? I mean, it's an asset in our books which is completely non-core from the point of view.
Yeah. That's what I agree. So sometimes we did try to trade off our balance sheet, but it could not happen. So probably when the revenues start getting better, if there is a healthy interest from somebody, then we will look at the transaction.
Sure. Understood. The second question is about the investment property, whatever, INR 110 crore. I think some of that would be Kota project as well, right?
Yes. Yes. It will be Kota only.
It's only Kota?
Yes.
Okay. Understood. All right. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Reminder to the participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. Now we go to the last question from the line of Mr. Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, just wanted to know any progress in terms of the land monetization, 4.7 acres that we have in Kolkata? So we were looking at previously either first priority was to sell or then the last was to develop. So any progress, anything you want to share?
At the moment, it's status quo, but once we get clearances, that is something that moves at its own pace in this case of the mall. We will, in all probabilities, develop it because the upside is going to be better back there. It's very strategically located now. You have a metro station, you have a mall, and you have a couple of large residential complexes alongside, so at the moment, it's status quo.
But now we will look to develop ourselves and not to sell the land. So just trying to understand.
Sir, we've not formed up our policy. We have started looking at how to get various approvals. But our initial research shows that the margin is going to be much higher, the returns are going to be much higher if we develop it ourselves. But it's not formed up as yet. The land is there. It is there.
Yeah, true. But even whenever we firm up the decision to develop, then in terms of what, broadly in terms of the equity that we are looking at to invest.
We've not thought about it. There can be various modules. As and when we form up our process, we can try to develop it. Outright sale, as we stand now, because we don't really need those funds, I don't think outright sale appears attractive to us.
Okay. No, no. My concern was if we will go into that asset-heavy model in terms of going from the pure construction to the developer also model.
No, no. That we don't. It's not that we will go and become a developer and start developing projects. If this is a land which has appreciated significantly in value, we may, as a one-off, develop it either on our own or in partnerships with local developers.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. That was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prem Khurana for the closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you very much for giving us an opportunity to host you all. Shobhit, any closing remarks that you would like to make?
No, no. Thank you so much, everybody, for joining in. And we'll probably be connecting with all of you again after the last quarter. It looks eventually. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you a lot. Have a great day.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.