Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ahluwalia Contracts (India) Limited Q4 FY 2022 and full year FY 2022 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone telephone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Meet Parekh from Anand Rathi. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Inba. On behalf of Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers, I welcome everyone to Q4 FY 2022 and Full Year FY 2022 Earnings call for Ahluwalia Contracts India Limited. From the management side, we have Mr. Shobhit Uppal, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. Vikas Ahluwalia, Full-Time Director, he's the CEO of the company. We will start with the opening remarks from the management regarding the industry, the results, and post which we will open up for an interactive Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mr. Rathi. Good afternoon. Welcome, everybody. Ahluwalia Contracts (India) Limited has announced their financial results for Q4 FY 2022. During Q4 FY 2022, the company has achieved a turnover of INR 730.86 crores and a PAT of INR 42.35 crores, in comparison to a turnover of INR 761 crores and a PAT of INR 37.06 crores in the corresponding quarter of the last financial year. EPS of the company for Q4 FY 2022 is rupees INR 6.32, as compared to 5.53 in Q4 of FY 2021.
During Q4 FY 2022, the company's EBITDA margin is 10.25%, as compared to 9.63%, and a PAT of 5.79%, as compared to 4.87% in the corresponding period of the last financial year. During the year ended on March 31st 2022, the company has achieved a turnover of INR 2,692.47 crore and a PAT of INR 155.26 crore, as in comparison to a turnover of INR 1,982.19 crore and a PAT of INR 77.24 crore in the last financial year. EPS of the company for year ending March 31st 2022, is INR 23.18, as compared to 11.53 in the last financial year.
During the year ended on March 31, 2022, the company's EBITDA margin is 10.61%, as compared to 8.91%, and a PAT margin of 5.77%, as compared to 3.90% in the corresponding period of the last year. Net order book of the company as on March 31, 2022, stood at INR 5,870 crores to be executed in the next two to two and a half years. Total order inflow during the year ended March 31, 2022, is INR 1,267 crores. We are L1 in two projects, totaling INR 1,250.84 crores. We are ready to take questions now. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may enter star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may enter star and one. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. . Please go ahead.
Hello?
Shreyans, your line is unmuted. Could you go ahead with your question, please?
Yeah, sure. Thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to know the guidance for FY 2023 in terms of revenue and EBITDA margin?
15% top line growth and EBITDA margin should also be in the region of 12%-13%.
12%-13%. Sure, sure. During this quarter, did we have any one-offs?
No.
Got it. Got it. Sure. And, sir, in terms of CapEx guidance for FY 2023?
It should be in the range of about INR 30 crore.
30 crore. Sure. And sir, lastly, in terms of Central Vista project, we've been given to understand that, you know, one of the projects has been canceled. So just wanted to understand that. And secondly, what is the opportunity size still left in that, you know, in that entire stretch now?
Yeah, as the tender has been canceled, that knowledge is in public domain.
Right.
So your information is correct. It is being re-tendered, and,
Okay, so will we be rebidding for it?
We are still deciding.
Okay, sure. Sir, in terms of the opportunities still left for the Central Vista?
you know, I think, the situation, as it is unfolding, it's yet not very clear. But in the immediate future, I think there would be tenders to the tune of about INR 3,000 crore-INR 4,000 crore. When I say immediate future, I mean in the next couple of years.
... Got it. Got it. Got it. Sure, sir. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. So my question is, sir, how do you see the order inflow in FY 2023? We are left with two times, roughly two times FY 2022 revenue as the order book. So for the growth, I think we need a substantial number in FY 2023 to grow in FY 2024.
Mohit, during the last call, I had given a guidance of an order inflow about INR 2,500 crores-INR 3,000 crores. We stand by that. I had also mentioned that we were deliberately being conservative on account of a couple of factors. One, increased competitive intensity, coupled with in the inflationary market. So going forward, we see the pricing, the prices, commodity prices stabilizing. And also in the latter part of this financial year, I expect the competitive intensity to also, you know, become better. So we stand by our guidance given earlier.
Any color on this, order opportunity basket available in FY 2023?
So, primarily public sector, our focus remains on the public sector. Private sector, there are green shoots, so maybe out of this INR 2,500 crores, we expect about 20% to come from the private sector, from our existing clients. We continue to be wary of taking on, new clients, especially in the residential sector, in the private sector. As far as the public sector is concerned, more of the same, hospitals, education and institutional buildings.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we'd like to remind participants to ask a question, you may enter star and one. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sir, just wanted to know, particularly on the EBITDA margin, anything has happened? Because this quarter we have seen again the on QOQ business, the EBITDA margin is coming off again. But, so what was any specific reasons, and are we now confident that 12%-13% for FY 2023 is achievable, or we can see a first and second quarter, maybe a lower margin because of the increased commodity prices?
As I said, in this quarter, our EBITDA margin is 10.25%. So that, you know, is in spite of there is a slight improvement from the corresponding quarter of the last financial year, in spite of, as you yourself mentioned, the inflation has hit us. So yes, the first two quarters would be along the, along the same lines, but overall, I think we will, we stand by our guidance of 12%-13% as far as the year is concerned.
Okay. Secondly, sir, last time we said we can do a 20% kind of a revenue growth in FY 2023. Now we are saying a 15%. So are we seeing any slowdown in-
No, no. Shravan, last time also I said 15%-20%. Now also I'm saying 15%-20%.
Okay, okay. Second, sir, in terms of the two L1 projects that you have mentioned, so which are these two projects, sir?
One is NIT Patna. That should be awarded to us in the next two weeks. That is INR 526 crore. The other is the Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai, which is about INR 710 crore, which it's taking a bit of time. I think we are expecting it to happen to be awarded in the next month and a half.
Okay. Sir, we were also L1 in a Mumbai customs project of 1,100+ and 1 Muzaffarpur hospital from Tata.
Both those projects have been canceled because the bid price, though we were L1, the bid price was far above the estimate price, so the projects, those tenders will be required.
Okay, okay. Sir, I need a couple of data points, order book, segment-wise, government, private, region-wise, fixed price, breakup.
Yes, Satbir will answer that.
This is segment-wise. This is the hospital, 43.40% . Infrastructure, 11.5-
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Satbir, could you come a little closer to the device and speak, sir? We can't hear you that well.
This is hospital, 43.40%, and infrastructure, 11.5%, institutional, 20.90%, residential, 17.96%, and commercial is approximately percent. And-
Sorry, sir, commercial, can you repeat?
This is 4.98%.
Okay.
Hotel is 1.17%.
...Okay. And, in terms of the, in terms of the government. Hello?
The government is 84.38%, and private is 15.62%.
Yeah, and in terms of the region?
That East, 45.45%, and North, 35.86%. West, 17.83%. The rest, South is 0.85%.
How much is the fixed price, sir?
This is approximately 15%.
15%. Okay. And sir, what's the number for mobilization advance, retention money, and unbilled revenue?
Yeah, this retention is INR 180 crore. Debtors against bills is INR 487 crore. Total, INR 667 crore. Mobilization is INR 203 crore, and unbilled revenue is INR 251 crore.
251 crore. Okay. And now, so with that, in terms of the working capital days, is there any pressure we are facing in terms of the payments from any specific client, or are we expecting a further improvement?
We are expecting a further improvement in, in this quarter. If you were to see the figure, which the base, will just tell you.
This working capital days was in last quarter, 89 days, and now this comes out, come down to 73 days.
Oh, that's great.
Like I said, it will further improve.
Yes.
Okay. That's a great thing, sir. Sir, in terms of the overall total bid pipeline size, so you mentioned that focus will be on the public 20% we are expecting from private. But in terms of the size, what would be the total bid pipeline size as of today?
So it would be about INR 7,000 crore. The tenders that we are to submit in the next one and a half to two months.
Okay. And sir, any update in terms of the land monetization which we have in Kolkata? Anything, any progress?
Not in the immediate future, no.
Okay, okay. Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you and all the best.
Thanks, Shravan. Thanks.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Rajat Sethia from iThought Portfolio Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is about the fixed price order book, which is 15%. So what is the kind of margin impact do you think these orders will have? And when are these orders going to be executed?
These orders will be completed in this calendar year, and the margin impact on these particular projects will be to the tune of about—we will take a hit. Our profitability will be halved, so the margin hit will be to the tune of about 4%-5%.
Okay. So basically, 12%-13%, maybe we'll make 5%-6% on them, right?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. And sir, why was this Central Vista tender canceled and, you know, it is coming up again? What really happened?
You must have read the newspaper. No, what the value, if you've seen the value of the tender package, has gone up by about INR 200 crore. So it seems that they have added certain components like ICT, and also increased the area somewhat. So they felt that the earlier tender was not an accurate reflection of what they were ultimately going to make, so they recalled it.
Okay, okay. And this time around, are we seeing any idea on the competition, like what kind, how many people were tendering, bidding, in the first time, and how many people will be bidding now? Or do you expect the competition to be the same?
We're evaluating that only. Earlier on, four companies were pre-qualified. So now-
Okay.
If they've, you know, they're doing the entire process again. So we are yet not clear how many will be added to these four. So we are evaluating our options, and because of the nature of the project, as I mentioned earlier, we are still not clear whether we will bid again or not. So we are still doing our due diligence on this.
Okay, understood. Sir, any stock orders, like known moving orders?
So now, now the projects which were stalled are also moving fine. We've broken ground, on the Patna Veterinary University project also, Agricultural and Veterinary University. That's a large one. So when the auditorium project in Kolkata, which incidentally is one of the fixed price contracts, that is, you know, slated for completion in September. So that is also moving full steam ahead.
... Okay. And, the competition that we are seeing that it's increasing. So, earlier in your commentary, you used to specifically mention that, order sizes below 200, there is high competition, and above there is less. So, so are you seeing competition right now across, order sizes? Or is it again, high in certain categories and low in certain categories?
So now that INR 200 figure has become INR 500. In orders up to INR 500 crores, the competitive intensity is high. But what is also, what we're beginning to see is that a lot of people, in the mid-sized, segment, they have burned their fingers. So now there is a bit of discipline, when the bidding is there, where all these people, the mid-sized companies, are participating. So as I predicted, over the next three to six months, I think there will be, more discipline as far as bidding is concerned.
Sure. One final on the CapEx side, over the last few years, we have been spending INR 20-30 crores on an annual basis. So going forward, do you think we would have to spend some big CapEx at some point in time, or that is not required in our business? That's something which will take place.
So over the years, over the last two, three years, we've been steadily, you know, a majority of this CapEx is in, in replacing old, defunct equipment. So I don't see... That's why I projected the CapEx of INR 30 crore. I don't see a substantial increase in this number in this year also.
So, this question is more from the perspective of, let's say, next five, six years, that, you know, is this the kind of CapEx? So CapEx right now, on a INR 3,000 crore top line, we are saying INR 30 crore. So do you think this kind of run rate will go in line with the revenue growth, or you think we will have to, at some point in time, big CapEx as well?
It will, it will increase. If you're talking about the longer term, it will increase.
Yeah?
Yeah.
In line with the revenues?
Yes, in line with the revenues, yes.
Okay, understood. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to our participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may enter star and one. Next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir.
Hi, Parikshit.
Just, so just joined little late in the call. If you can just tell us, what's the total order backlog? Sorry, I missed that number.
INR 5,870 crores.
Can you repeat the L1 number?
INR 1,250 crore.
Okay. Okay. So just on this margins, I think we have been saying till last quarter that the margins are now normalizing, and again, we have a negative surprise on margins in this quarter. So, and you were saying that another two quarters, the margins will remain muted. So we were very well aware that the commodity prices are at an elevated level in the third quarter call. So why is it, like, again, getting extended by two more months? So are we not getting our escalations, which is there, or... So, so what are the reasons why we are still lagging on getting back to the normalized margin? If we have only a 15% of legacy order book on a fixed price basis.
Parikshit, the situation is there for all to see. You know, nobody expected that the supply chain will continue to be so badly affected. Nobody expected that, the war, which is one of the key reasons for the pricing, pricing level continuing to go up, nobody expected it to go for so long, go on for so long. So, but having said that, keeping the inflationary, trend, I think, the EBITDA margin is in line with what I had projected. When you say it's negative, I'm sorry, could you clarify that?
No, sir, I was saying we were looking towards more... One second. Sorry, sir, sorry for that. So I was saying that we are, when we were moving towards more quarterly kind of a normalized number of, 12%-13%, so, I was referring to that.
If I take you back to my last call, I had said that in the second half of this financial year, the numbers will improve substantially.
Yeah.
Even if, if you were to see, if you were to compare, in spite of the inflationary pressure, our EBITDA margin is up by nearly 0.6%-0.7% in this quarter.
But we expect that, second half of 2023, it will be more like coming back sharply up.
Yes.
For the full year, 12%-13%, do we still maintain that we're able to deliver on EBITDA margin?
Yes.
Second question is on, sir, again, which I keep asking you every time on the call, that on the private real estate, so sector seems to be doing well. Any change in thought there? And are we looking to come back there? If you can just touch upon that.
Residential still does not excite us, but commercial, you know, the order pipeline that I mentioned, INR 7,000 crore-INR 8,000 crore, there is. Out of this, about 20% is private commercial real estate exposure.
Okay. What about the southern markets? I mean, where, I mean, are you looking now? Because that's a big market for the commercial, private commercial, real estate on the office side. So any thoughts there to ramp up?
Sometime during this year, latter part of this year, we are looking to extend our footprint there.
Okay. Okay, sir. Great. Those were my questions. Thank you and all the best.
Thanks. Thanks.
... Our next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to check if there are any slow-moving orders in the order book?
No, as I mentioned earlier, now all the projects are moving fine.
Okay. And secondly, on the cost escalations, so, are we, let's say, based on the indices which exist today, are we getting a fair amount of pass-through of the increased costs, or you think the indices are lagging significantly at this point of time?
The indices are lagging at this point in time.
Okay.
Yeah. So what we are-
Right, but-
-getting is about 60% of the actual cost, which is incurred, broadly speaking.
Okay. So sir, when we guide for a 12%-13% kind of margin, do we assume that the indices will catch up, and hence we'll be able to maintain that sort of margin, or we are building that on as things stand today?
The delta will reduce.
Okay.
That's how we are-
Yes, sir.
The delta, in terms of the gap of 40%, this will reduce.
Sure. Right, sir. Okay, thank you.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, I would like to know about the order backlog position for selected projects. Can you give us the detail of the J&K Hospital project? What is the current outstanding order backlog?
In the AIIMS, Jammu, the backlog is about INR 750 crore, as on date. The-
Okay, as on date.
The net, yeah, unexecuted value is about INR 750 crore.
What was this as on March?
877. It was INR 877 crore.
Sir, is it possible to give us, you know, the top five or top ten order backlog breakup project-wise? Because we have been missing this data for quite some time now. So is it possible to give us now, just quickly, if it is possible?
Yeah, I told you about this thing, Jammu, then-
So anyone has went there, yeah.
Yeah. So you note down, then,
Yeah.
Sion Hospital, this is as on March, right?
Yes.
Sion Hospital is INR 506 crore.
Okay.
The medical college in Chapra in Bihar is INR 201 crore.
Uh-huh.
Bihar Animal Science University, INR 890 crore.
Okay. Just still INR 890, so we're not booked anything.
Yeah, yeah, that's just... As I mentioned earlier in my call, we have just broken ground there. And Mandale Depot, Mumbai, INR 385 crore.
Okay.
Gardani Bagh Officers Enclave in Patna, INR 384 crore.
Okay.
Is that okay? I think-
We had received some affordable housing project in Kolkata, INR 229 crore. So have we broken ground there?
Yes, we have broken ground. That project is well underway. In fact, that was one of the slow-moving projects because they had not got the AI clearance, which has now come, and it is underway now. Foundation work-
So what is the out, what is the outstanding? As on March, it was the same, INR 229 crores?
Just a second, please. Yes, INR 244 crore.
So the price has gone up.
The awarded amount was INR 249 crore, and as on thirty-first March.
Okay. 244
A billing of INR 5 crore had been done there.
Okay. And sir, on the coming back to Kolkata project, auditorium project, as you said, it will end in September. And obviously our Milan Mela, we were about to end in April. So are we done with Milan Mela or that is still working?
Yeah, as you would have seen in the news, Milan Mela was inaugurated by the Honorable Chief Minister in April.
Yes.
Now the final billing and, you know-
Yes
We are in the process of handing it over. Yeah.
Payments are not an issue, payments are streamlined.
Yeah, yeah.
So any-
On that project, payments are streamlined.
Sir, any payment issue from any of the state governments you are facing as of now, say in Bihar or some other projects, or everything is smooth?
Bihar, the payment cycle is slightly prolonged.
Uh.
But the payments are coming in. Other states, Himachal and Haryana and the other states, Delhi, they are, they are okay. Maharashtra, they are okay.
Sir, any NBCC project we are targeting this year?
So NBCC, as I mentioned last time, we've restarted rebidding, and we are doing the Chamba Hospital project is with NBCC only, where nearly 50% of the project is still left to be done.
Uh.
So yes, we are looking to bid now that the escalation clause and the arbitration clause is there in the tender-
Uh.
So we are looking to bid further.
... Sir, just two questions. This Nalanda project, what is the outstanding order backlog and this...
Nalanda, Nalanda INR 156 crore.
That is project construction of high-rise multi-story complex, Bhubaneswar.
Bhubaneswar, the balance is INR 294 crore.
INR 209 crore?
294. 294.
294. So, this is also moving pretty slow, so any reason why?
No, it has stalled in between due to statutory approvals. It has now started. All approvals are in place now.
So, you gave a guidance of 13%, and you said 15% of the projects are slow moving. So these slow moving projects, are we expected to complete in first half or we can see a spillover in H2 also?
No, no, I didn't say 15% projects are slow moving. I said 15-
Oh, sorry, sorry. Fixed price projects, sorry.
Fixed-price contract, yeah.
Yes, sorry. Yes, my bad.
So we are looking to complete, as I said, one of the major ones is the auditorium project, which we are looking to complete in September.
September.
Yeah, and the other one by the end of this financial year.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side, and all the best for the new financial year.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, sir, and thanks for taking my question. So first question is about the competitive intensity. Now, you mentioned that it has been high over the last year, and which is why we have been conservative in terms of bidding, and you expect it will probably improve by the second half of this year. So is this reduction in competitive intensity largely a function of the fact that people have had setbacks due to commodity price volatility? Or is it also because the bid pipeline, et cetera, might be increasing, or you expect more orders coming in quicker, and which is why you think the bidding will be more rational?
So they are intertwined, these two reasons that you said, Parvez. A lot of companies, I don't want to name them, but I can... There are at least six to eight companies who are actually floundering because they picked up orders at very, very competitive pricing, and the commodity prices hit them. You know that the commodity prices compounded their problems. So, you know, going forward, a few of these companies may not survive. A few of these companies will, the other ones will be forced to bid in a more disciplined fashion. What we are also seeing with the larger player, they are not bidding indiscriminately. So that is why, you know, going forward, I'm hopeful that H2 of this financial year, the bids will be more disciplined.
Yes, the pipeline is steadily increasing, you know, so especially in the segments that we are present in. So we are hoping that the orders which will come in now will be with decent margins. And the commodity prices also seem to be, you know, on a downward trend.
Sure. A bookkeeping question for Satbir Singh. What is the total, gross debt, and what is the cost of debt currently?
It's as of March 31st, it is INR 5 lakh only, and cost of debt is approximately 7%.
Sorry, I missed that number. 7%?
5%-5%.
Okay, sure. Thanks, sir. All the best for future.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Any participant who wishes to ask a question may enter star and one. Our next question is from the line of Rajat Sethia from iThought Portfolio Management. Please go ahead.
Sir, one small question, I missed it. What was the order inflows during FY 2022?
INR 1,267 crore.
1,267. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of, Jairam Shah from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
I just wanted one clarification about the margin guidance. So sir, is it inclusive of the other income?
At the moment, no, this is not inclusive of the other income.
Okay. So, sir, basically, we see the... so, sir, so this 12%-13% is, excluding other income that you are saying, the guidance of the, EBITDA margins?
This is including other income.
No, but this is only two. These values, margins are without other income.
Margins-
So Satbir would like to clarify.
Percentage of margin has been declared, that includes other income and the profit, but not taken off the turnover as a percentage.
Okay, okay. So if we see the other income during this particular fourth quarter, then it has almost doubled from our original turnover of INR 5-6 crores. So any kind of return back or something during this quarter?
This is the this during this quarter, basically total other income include this is return back and also some basically liability return back, and also some amounts has been received from the debt already we have written off as a bad debt, that also. There is INR 11 crore-INR 12 crore is our FD received, FD interest is there.
... Okay, okay. So sir, if we do the math of the core EBITDA margin for this particular fourth quarter, then it is largely into that 8.7%-8.8%, if we exclude the other income from the EBITDA level, and as compared to our earlier 10%, year-over-year quarter-over-quarter basis. So any specific reason to that?
This, I'm saying that this is the, basically just margin or percentage of EBITDA that has been includes whatever the other income is there. And but they can have a percentage of turnover only.
Okay, sir, but if we exclude the other income from this EBITDA, which is like return back a non-cash item thing, so then the margin will be coming to the 8.5%-9% of lines.
No, that is basically part of the-
That is one way of looking at it.
Yeah.
Now, part of this other income is also used against the construction done earlier.
Yes, yes. That is not a basically.
You know, that is in the long run, that will continue to happen.
Because earlier, sir, whatever budget has written off, that is also considered for the calculation of EBITDA at that time also.
But anyway, that's what you're saying, yes, that is right. But what I'm trying to say is that year on year, that will continue to happen. Hello? Hello?
Mr. Shah, does that answer your question?
I think we've lost.
Yeah, it looks like Mr. Shah is no longer in the queue. I'll just check for from participants if they have any questions, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may enter star and one. We'll take the next question from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for the opportunity again. So just one thing, when I look at our bank balances, which is basically the deposits of the banks, so those have doubled from last year. The 90-odd crores has become 187. So is all of this margin money or these are some of the regular deposits as well?
No, that is also fixed deposit also including that bank balances.
Okay. Okay. So if you can... Do you have the details, how much of this could be free deposit?
It's out of this is margin money around would be INR 95 crore and rest of the-
Okay. Got it. So margin money doesn't seem to then have increased much. What you see, the number is basically on account of increase in the regular deposits.
No, because, because basically outstanding of the receivables are at similar level. So that's why margins are-
You're right. You're right. Margin money is a-
Right. Got that, sir. Got that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, out of the bidding pipeline of INR 7,000 crore, how much is the, the state? Actually, I'm interested in how, how the bidding pipeline from the states is looking at this point of time? And are we looking to add something on the state side, or it's primarily for the center?
So one is seeing the pipeline as far as the state is concerned, increasing. So it would be, you know, out of the total INR 7 billion, this thing, as I said, 20% will be from the private sector, and from the balance it would be 70-30. 70% center, 30% state.
Understood, sir. My second question is, what is our long-term aspiration in the sense, let's say, FY 2025, what kind of top line you are looking to achieve? And, that's the question, yeah.
Look, these are not times to think so far ahead. I have-
Some broad guidance, sir?
I have given a guidance of a growth of 15%-20% of the next two years, and then let's see.
Okay, understood, sir. Lastly, on this, sir, margin, as the, as the prices correct now, in the sense, or does it improve our EBITDA margin in near term, or do you think this 8.0%, which achieved in Q4, is likely to continue for Q1 and Q1 FY 2023 and Q2 FY 2023, and it will improve subsequently once the our top line starts growing at a higher rate?
Yes. Second, second half of this financial year, it will improve substantially.
Okay, so this-
Continue to be felt, at least in the first quarter.
So what is the lag which you generally, you know, you see in the indices?
So as I mentioned, it's about 30%-40%, but this will reduce as we go forward. So in the second half of this year, the lag should be down to about 20%.
Okay.
Some lag will remain. Some lag will remain, because though the pricing of cement and steel, you know, there are separate indices for cement and steel, but, the rest of the pricing of other construction materials are actually the escalation is based on the Wholesale Price Index.
Right.
So that does not totally cover the escalation.
Mm-hmm. Understood, sir. Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Meet Parekh, from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, on the mobilization advance, how much of it is interest bearing?
... Like this is INR 203 crore, and out of which 30% is interest free.
Interest, 30% free?
Yes.
About INR 60, about INR 60 crore is interest free.
Okay.
Rest is about INR 140 crore is interest bearing.
Okay. Sir, on the pledge, now with almost zero debt we have, what is the reason for the pledge we have? And by when do you expect to reduce it further, reduce it down?
Yes, yes, you will find it within this quarter that we have already squared up the limits with the Punjab National Bank. That is a measure holding the pledging the share with this bank. This is around INR 50 lakh that would be released this quarter. And the rest thereof would have to be 47.95 lakh share. And we are planning to get collateral free within this year.
Okay. Okay. And, lastly, sir, on the, if you can, list, list some projects for which, you will be, at the end of bidding pipeline. Some of the major, big, big ticket projects.
So, we are bidding, without naming the client, we are bidding for a slew of data centers, because that seems to be an upcoming field. We are bidding for a couple of hospitals in Bihar. We are bidding for a data center for Punjab National Bank also. We are bidding for a central university project in Himachal. We are also bidding for a fintech institute for the government of Rajasthan, and we are bidding for three hospitals in, for the government of Assam. And on the private sector side, we are bidding for DLF as well as Bharti Realty.
Okay. Okay, that was it from my side. Thank you. Thank you, sir, for taking my question.
Do we have anyone else in the line, Simba?
No, sir, there are no further questions.
Oh, so you can hand it over to the management for closing comments.
I would now like to hand over the call to the management for closing comments.
So thank you, everybody, for patiently listening to us. If there are any other questions, you can reach out to Satbir directly or Sudhanshu from our IR team, and we will reply as soon as possible, and hope to talk to you guys again at the end of the next quarter. Thank you. Bye.
Thank you. On behalf of Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.