Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Brigade Group's Q4 FY 2022 Financial Results Conference Call. We have with us on the call today the management of Brigade Enterprises Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. M. R. Jaishankar, Chairman and Managing Director, Brigade Enterprises Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Brigade Enterprises Q4 Financial Year 2022 Earnings Call. I'm joined by our executive directors, Mr. Roshin Mathew, Ms. Pavitra Shankar, Ms. Nirupa Shankar, Mr. Amar Mysore. Our senior management team is also present, Mr. Atul Goyal, CFO, Mr. Rajendra Joshi, Mr. Subrata Sharma, Mr. Karthi Baskar, Mr. Om Prakash, Company Secretary, and Pradyumna Krishnakumar , Senior VP. It gives me great pleasure to report that financial year 2022 surpassed all our yearly performances till date with highest ever sales value as well as collections. This is notwithstanding the deadly second wave of COVID-19 in 2021 as well as huge jump in construction costs over the last three to four months.
All raw material costs like steel, aluminum, copper, finishing materials, and fuel, among others, have seen huge increases due to the global supply chain issues made worse with the geopolitical situation in Europe. As a result, the total construction costs have increased almost up to 15% and are expected to rise or at least remain at elevated levels for the next 12-18 months. Nevertheless, the price increase effective here in quarter four on the back of higher input costs has been accepted by our customers, reflecting positive buyer sentiment and the strength of our brand. We will continue to supply in line with the market absorption in order to maintain profitability.
Our real estate business recorded our highest ever new bookings by value in the quarter four, INR 1,028 crores translating to 1 million sq ft in area. For the financial year, we recorded 4.7 million sq ft of net new bookings after cancellations with a value of INR 3,022 crores. The residential business also registered our best performance in collections. That is our quarter four collections is upwards of INR 1,000 crores, and for the year in whole, the collection was INR 3,162 crores. Our best performing projects in Bangalore were Brigade Cornerstone Utopia and Brigade El Dorado, while our projects in Hyderabad and Chennai continue to be significant value and volume drivers for us.
Overall, we are positive about the outlook for the residential business. This is supported by our continuing focus on land acquisition in our key markets of Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad. In financial year 2022, we were able to launch only 3.65 million sq ft of new projects due to the various delays in three authorities. In quarter four, we launched Komarla Heights, Brigade Laguna, Goldspire, and Ivory in Brigade Orchards, all in Bangalore, and the final phase in our Hyderabad project, Brigade Citadel. In financial year 2023, we expect to launch about 8 million sq ft, 8 million sq ft of residential business, of which 2 million sq ft will be in-progress development across three projects in Bangalore and Mysore.
This is apart from the launches we are going to do in commercial. Our office business has remained stable with close to 99% collections. We transacted close to 500,000 sq ft in quarter four and about 1 million sq ft in the financial year 2022. We have an existing pipeline of over 1 million sq ft across all properties. Brigade The Gardens in World Trade Center, Chennai, our marketed developments were the most sought after business addresses. Financial year 2022 also witnessed robust transactions in Brigade International Financial Center, GIFT City, Gujarat, with our building achieving 80% occupancy. In the office segment, we expect to launch about 2 million sq ft in commercial lease and for-sale projects.
Our hospitality portfolio had a slow start in quarter four due to the Omicron virus, due to which the first half of the quarter saw low occupancies. The bounce back has been impressive with occupancies and ARR growing strongly, reaching 94% and 72% of the pre-COVID levels respectively. This is mainly due to the increase in corporate offices and MICE, which means Meetings, Incentives, Conferences, and Exhibitions, MICE business. The retail vertical achieved higher retailer sales consumption over pre-COVID levels by more than 100% for like-for-like trading units. Rental collections have also increased and crossed pre-COVID levels. There was a recovery for multiplexes due to big box office releases.
We are also seeing consistent traction on the leasing front, with new rentals greater than 20% of pre-COVID levels on an average. I'm also happy to inform you that we are expanding our business portfolio by initiating a warehousing and logistics and data center vertical. We are currently in the preliminary stages and will be in a position to share more information in the coming months. Ravi Ahuja has joined us as the COO for this vertical. This brings me to the end of our business highlights. I now request Atul Goyal, our CFO, to take you through the financial highlights. Take care and stay safe, and thank you.
Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the company, we welcome you to the earnings call of Q4 FY 2022. To start with company's update, most of them have been given by CMD, but we have achieved the highest ever pre-sales in real estate of 4.7 million sq ft, with sales value of INR 3,023 crore in FY 2022, increase of 9% from FY 2021. This quarter has been better than last quarter in terms of business performance. We recorded real estate sales of 1.5 million sq ft during this quarter, vis-à-vis 1.1 million during last quarter, increase of 42% from previous quarter. Sales value stood at INR 1,028 crore during Q4 FY 2022, an increase of 50% from previous quarter.
As of 31st March , Brigade had 18 million sq ft of ongoing projects and 10 billion of upcoming projects, including both residential and commercial projects, which is going to be launched. We have achieved highest collection of INR 4,083 crore in FY 2022, an increase of 51% from FY 2021. Overall collections in residential was up by 51%, office up by 50%, retail up by 73%, hospitality up by 79%. On consolidated levels, the cash flow from operating income was INR 1,125 crore in FY 2022, an increase of 23% compared to FY 2021. We saw a demand revival in leasing vertical, leasing of more than 1 million sq ft during FY 2022. We have an active pipeline of 1 million sq ft, achieved office renewals of 500,000 sq ft during FY 2022.
Hospitality showed strong signs of recovery post-COVID, with the occupancy reaching pre-COVID levels, about 64% in March. ARR at 78% of pre-COVID levels during March 2022. Coming to consolidated financial performance of our FY 2022, the consolidated revenue of FY 2022 stood at INR 3,066 crores versus INR 2,010 crores in the previous year, an increase of 53%, whereas the same for Q4 stood at INR 964 crore versus INR 963 crores in previous quarter. In real estate segment, clocked a turnover of INR 7,289 crores, an increase of 50% from the previous year, with an EBITDA of 18% in FY 2022. The leasing segment clocked a turnover of INR 596 crores, an increase of 60% from previous year with EBITDA of 67% in FY 2022.
The hospitality segment clocked a turnover of INR 179 crores, an increase of 57% from previous year and an EBITDA of 13% in FY 2022. The consolidated EBITDA for FY 2022 stood at INR 863 crores, an increase of 56% from previous year. EBITDA margins stood at 27%. Consolidated PAT after minority interest for FY 2022 was INR 86 crores. Coming to the cash and liquidity position, we continue to have adequate liquidity and undrawn credit lines from the financial institutions. Our average cost of debt has been coming down consistently over last few quarters and was at 7.68% as on March 2022 versus 9% as on December 2020, 135 basis point reduction. The cash and cash equivalents stood at INR 1.79 crores as on 31st March 2022.
Consequently, the company's net debt outstanding as on 31 March 2022 is INR 2.40 crores, out of which BEL share is INR 1,619 crores. Our real estate debt reduced by 45% during FY 2022 from previous year and stood at INR 272 crores as on March 2022, driven by higher sales and collections. Almost 78% of debt pertains to commercial portion, of which 74% is backed by rental income. We have a credit rating of A+ with stable outlook, which has been assigned by ICRA. I now hand it back to the moderator for questions. Thanks.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands-free while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Dilip Pandey from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Sir, we've seen the presentations on a very strong quarter across the business segment. First question is what you alluded to in the beginning of the call about the 15% rise in costs. Is this at an overall portfolio level you're referring to across ongoing operating inventory, or it is only for the new projects which you are going to start? Follow up on that, you said that you have increased prices to maintain the margins. In quantitative, what is the price increase you have had to take? For the new projects which you are going to launch in the coming year, how have you worked around the pricing for those projects, and do you see the demand sustaining with these price increases? That is my first question.
Thank you. See, the price increase of above 15% is for new projects to be launched. Subject to various issues, it is an approximate figure. Nobody can say it is exactly 15%. It can be 13%, it can be 16%. For some of the ongoing projects where the structure or the building is incomplete, there will be a certain amount of price increase. It depends on case-to-case basis. I repeat this price increase is on the construction cost, not on the selling value or anything. The impact on selling value can be anywhere between 5%-8% on a project-to-project basis, and in some cases it may go to 10%.
It all depends what your selling rate is, what your land value is, whether it is a purchased property, whether it is historical, whether it is present joint development, not joint development. It depends on whole lot of issues. That way, we will definitely try to pass on, as any businessman, even in the morning CNBC also said any businessman or industrialist would like to pass on the cost increases as long as it is acceptable or ready to be absorbed by the customer. The entire pricing policy in any business is what the market can afford.
Ultimately we will go on that concept and somewhere we may be able to increase the price by 10%, even if the cost increase is only 5%. Somewhere we may be able to increase 8%, even if the cost increase is 7%. It is around the pricing policies, but the intention is to pass on the cost increase.
Just as a housekeeping question, what is the range of prices you've taken in this last quarter? A range if you could.
5%-8%. 5%-8% is the increase in prices in the last quarter.
Okay. 5%- 8%. Okay, sir. The second question, this is on the leasing. I think, last call we had said by the end of maybe FY 2023, right? Another 12 months from now, you are aiming to lease out the entire vacant area, which we have around 2 million sq ft. Any fresh update on that?
Even now that is the target. That is certainly the target. Our team is working hard to do that. I think, based on the number of inquiries that we are receiving or what we have finalized in Q4, it is encouraging. At this point of time, while we are saying we will do 1 million sq ft, the target is certainly to come out of existing stock.
Okay. Sir, when do we see good visibility or some leasing closure? It may be second half with launches in it, is it that kind of a pace or?
Yeah. Okay. Our Subrata will talk.
Dilib, this is Subrata. Yeah, what we are seeing currently like, the momentum is there since the last two quarters, and particularly in this quarter we are seeing like some active pipeline and very active, like in the next two to three months we are having an outlook of like three to four lakh square feet . Having said that, the number of inquiries have significantly increased. The occupancy across the parks has increased significantly. It's now currently 25%-30%. As people are coming back to offices, the requirements are maturing. That's why we have a very positive outlook. We still maintain the same outlook of exhausting inventory in this financial year.
Okay. Got that. Last question is, so we had said that we launched 8 million sq ft this year. If I understand correctly, out of this 2 million will be the commercial, 6 million will be RE, of which 2 million sq ft will be plots. Is that correct?
No, actually it is the other way. It is 8 million sq ft of residential, of which 2 million sq ft is the plotted development, plus 2 sq ft million of commercial.
Okay.
10 million sq ft.
This 2 million sq ft in office includes this Twin Towers, Percera Tech Heights, which we are marketing as Deccan Heights now.
No, no. It doesn't include Brigade Twin Towers. We are launching another project called Brigade Padmini Tech Valley. We are launching, you know, a commercial block in Brigade Cornerstone Utopia called Elysium, and one or two smaller projects.
Okay. Sir, any guidance you'd like to share for pre-sales for the coming year based, since we have such a strong launch pipeline now?
This morning in the CNBC-TV18 interview, I said we should aim at 20%+ as the growth.
Okay.
This coming year.
33% post close as an aggregate.
No, no. I meant in terms of volume, not in terms of revenue. Primarily because revenue can be even higher considering the inflationary aspect. I also said in the morning that our current average realization is about INR 6,400 rupees, and it may go up to INR 6,900-INR 7,000 rupees in the average realization depending on the kind of mix it will have. If that God willing, it will reach INR 4,000 crores.
Okay. Fine. That is very good to hear. Yeah. All set. I'll come back into queue with more questions.
Thank you.
Before we take the next question, a reminder to the participants. In order to ensure that all participants get an opportunity to ask questions, please limit your questions to one per participant. When you follow up, may we request to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Karan Khanna from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity and, congratulations on another resilient quarter. First, from the real estate business, you mentioned you have 3.3 million sq ft of launch pipeline for FY 2023. Can you help us understand for how much area the approvals were already in place, and your target quarterly launches?
Yeah. I will try to take that. Yeah. I would say other than about 2 million sq ft. I would say 2.5 million sq ft is yet to be approved. Rest are all approved.
You know, just extending the previous question, what we also noticed is the launch pipeline is spread across Bangalore and Hyderabad. You've recently added the Chennai land parcel, 4 million sq ft. Any thoughts with respect to the outlook on this micro market and the plans in terms of the project mix?
I think it is a combination of commercial and residential, if you are talking specifically about the previous deal. Other than that, rest are all residential.
Sure. You know, in the last call you mentioned you were actively evaluating a 1.5 million sq ft land parcel in Hyderabad. Any developments on that since we last interacted with the last earnings call?
It is still work in progress.
Okay. Lastly, on the retail portfolio with consumptions surpassing the pre-COVID levels, will you try to assume that rentals would have been normalized April onwards, or there would be a few tenant classes which are still impacted and hence would have rental waivers?
Yeah. Nirupa Shankar will answer.
Yeah. Good afternoon. I think with the sales volume coming back into the retail business almost, I don't think there are any more COVID rental relief given for the larger malls. One or two of the smaller malls might have some revenue share deals. By and large, collections will be as per the lease.
Okay. Sure. Thank you, and I'll pass it to the queue.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Girish Choudhary from Spark Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. On the Chennai market, given your preference for development around 8 million sq ft, if you could give anything from an [NBP] from a launch perspective, because this is not featured in your upcoming project pipeline of 8 million sq ft. Yeah.
It's primarily because they're in different stages of you know, seeking various approvals and in one or two cases, the final due diligence aspect. Though we have incurred substantial amounts. I would. Since we still have 10 months' time, if we are lucky, we can launch in this financial year. We didn't want to be over-optimistic about the Chennai launches. Yeah, there is just a possibility it can get pushed into the next financial year. Maybe around quarter three when we talk about Q3 results of FY 2023, we'll be in a better position to make a commitment.
Okay. Also, there has been recent FSI changes for the land parcels towards generating on-plot property. With that, are we seeing any increase in the development potential for that? Or is that already reflected in this four to eight million sq ft?
Yeah. Right now it is all media reports. It is, nothing has been translated into a government policy. If the government policy happens, definitely we'll be benefited and it is beneficial to us in terms of higher FSI. Currently, we are looking at one million sq ft, the way we have taken. If that happens, with a higher FSI, which we do not know whether it is six, seven, eight, as the media is speculating. If that happens, it can go to 1.3-1.5 million sq ft. Our overall FSI cost is bound to come down significantly.
Okay. My last question on the land balance sheet of INR 9 crores, if you can share any timelines that we can or what would be the event and this has to be paid?
See, out of this, bulk of it is for the TVS land in Chennai. That should happen in Q3 FY 2023. The other remaining thing is Government of Karnataka, the KIADB has allotted us 75 acres land near the Bangalore airport. We have paid about 30% so far. The remaining, yeah, you know, 70% which needs to be paid, it is definitely going to take nine months or so. It all depends on, they also need to comply with certain formalities. It is likely to happen in this financial year. Not in the next two to three quarters. It can happen in Q4 or Q1 of next financial year.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is, even on the land pipeline. We have this 26-acre plotted development site in Bangalore, in Devanahalli. I see there's 89 acres in total. Can you highlight where the rest of the land on plotted development sites is? Is it Mysore or somewhere else?
I'll tell you. See, one is about 15 acres in Mysore, about 66 acres in Devanahalli, and another seven acres or so in part of Brigade Orchards.
Okay. Okay, got it. Can you just share the details about the TVS land, the price that we are looking at, and what was the consideration that we had to pay?
See, it was there in the media also. It is totally about INR 500 crores is the transaction value. You know, currently about more than 10% is paid and the balance will happen beginning this quarter and it should get completed in Q3.
Potential is one million, is this right?
Potential is one million, which, in the previous question I said it has a possibility or probability of going to 1.3-1.5 million if the authorities in Chennai relax the FSI rules like in Hyderabad.
Okay. Lastly, the breakup of collections that you normally give, the INR 1,300 crore split, between residential, retail, commercial. Yeah.
Yeah. For Q4 the collections are for residential is INR 1,008 crores. Commercial sale is INR 49 crores. Commercial lease is INR 108 crores. Retail is INR 47 crores. Hospitality is INR 73 crores. Our maintenance FMS is around INR 49 crores, which totals to INR 1,334 crores.
Okay. Great. Sorry, one last question, if I may. Residential collections are being very robust, reaching INR 1,000 crore now. Should we see this run rate sustaining from here on at least for the next one or two years, and obviously from here on it will slow? Because just to have our residential sales sustain at around INR 1,000 crore, which we talked about but previously we haven't had, you know, that consistency in the sales. How do you see this trajectory going forward?
Yeah. I'll say only the time will tell. Yes, you're right. Residential sales in Q1 is not generally the same as Q4 in any financial year. The team is working hard for the collections. It is not always be related to sales. It is, it can also be related to the already existing sales that have happened and collections which are to come in.
Sure. Got it. Thanks for your comments. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Agrawal from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and, congratulations to the team for a good quarter. My question is on business development. Now if I see, the change in land reserves, it's about nine million sq ft net in this quarter, and you've launched about two million sq ft. Probably gross land acquisition will be 11 million sq ft. Can you please explain, you know, how much would you have spent for this land addition and what would be the, you know, GDV addition expected on this? And also, you know, what should we look for the next one year? You know, what is your target in terms of business development? Is there it like you had earlier said 15 million sq ft, I remember till September. Any targets for FY 2023 on business development?
See the amounts that was to be incurred, it was sort of indicated in . INR 942 crore and which I did give the breakup for the previous question. The big ticket items I mentioned concerning the GPS and the government-allotted land. As far as adding more land is concerned, definitely it is a continuous work in progress. We would have signed something, but it may still be in due diligence, so it is too premature for us to share all the details in this call. Unless we have definitive agreements or a memorandum of agreement, it is difficult to share. The team is working towards you know, signing this 10-15 million sq ft.
Sir, INR 940 crore is the total payable. I actually wanted to ask for this quarter, how much would you have paid for the land, including the previous transaction?
It will be under INR 100 crore.
It will be under INR 100 crores. Okay. Sir, just one clarification. This, you know, before COVID, you used to give exit rental guidance, which for about 8.7 million sq ft portfolio, you know, used to be over INR 730 crores-INR 740 crores, you know, gross rental. You know, assuming now you are already there, you have completed 8.7 million sq ft. When should we expect, you know, that INR 730 crores-INR 740 crores to start coming in?
As we have been saying, we have already achieved standard growth. We think by next year, as Sudarshan said, we are targeting complete leasing this year. If it happens, maybe this year we will achieve the full leasing and of course the total impact may come in mid of the next year.
Yeah.
Yeah. Just to add a point, it all depends. Again, I mentioned it in the morning interview with CNBC. It is a bit difficult to predict when the rent commencement date will be. Even if you conclude a transaction. It all depends on the rent commencement dates. Based on that, it will happen. As I indicated.
Yeah. Sure, sir. Just last one. You mentioned that you plan in the residential portfolio to take a price hike of 5%-8% for fourth quarter. Could you give this number for the full year? FY 2022.
This is Pavitra. Price hike for the whole year is around the same 5%-8%. Basically, we've taken it wherever possible. In some projects we've been able to push it earlier in the year, and some we've taken it later. I think even the new launches that we mentioned in Q4 have also been able to launch at much higher rates than we previously thought possible. All of that has been absorbed by the market. Based on that, we feel confident to take our prices up even in the next upcoming Q1, which we have already communicated to the market.
Okay. Q1 you're expecting another hike. What would that be approximately?
Another 5% also. Again, we are looking at it on a project-by-project basis. It's very hard to also very aggressively increase prices because, you know, that has to be absorbed by the market. We're taking it up slowly. The goal is to take it up slowly over the course of the year so that we also can keep an eye on the increasing cost side as well and do it that way.
Okay. Okay, sure. This is all from my side, and thanks a lot for answering my questions.
Thank you. A reminder to participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, press star then one. Also a reminder to the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. For any follow-up, you may request to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi.
Mr. Kunal, sorry to interrupt. If you can take the phone off speaker, please. There's a lot of background noise which can be heard.
Hello. Is it better now?
Yes, sir.
This is my first question on the overall land bank acquisition. How much has been added in this year and what is the total consideration which needs to be paid?
See that the total consideration was already indicated in the previous two questions, about INR 900 crores that are there. What is going to be added, we need to say, it could be about 10 million. Our team is working towards 10 million. How much consideration will go towards that, it is too premature for us to commit. It depends on where the land is, whether it is a purchase, ownership, lease, all those joint development. It all depends on you know, all that. It is premature. Whatever we do, we will do keeping in mind our financial capabilities and you know, whatever leeway we have in the activity.
My question is here also if you see out of this INR 900, INR 500 is committed for 1 million sq ft. The balance INR 400 is for roughly about 9 million sq ft. Then we are looking to also add warehousing and data centers. We have INR 900 crores of ABM land. Some allocation will go towards data centers and warehousing. Plus CapEx current range average on about INR 400 crores. I just want to understand what are all the features you have. What is the in case what are you going to develop there what type of use are there?
How much is going to data centers? How are you going to spend the entire INR 900 for land bank plus INR 400? Of this, sir, you're not clear. Sir, I'm saying what is the strategy behind going into warehousing and data centers? We already have a very robust essential business, and we are also doing so. What's the rationale behind going into warehousing and data centers? Can you explain on that.
The rationale is it is a new growth area. As the country progresses, there is huge amounts of demand for logistics and warehousing. Sometime back I had mentioned there are developers in China who have got warehousing and logistics of 450 million sq ft. Just one developer. Whereas in India, we have not even scratched the surface. All, everybody together, we are under 100 million sq ft. So you have a 100 million sq ft. If you consider in China, it has exceeded square feet of warehousing and all that, much more. So that way, as the country progresses, if the economy from $2.5 trillion, if it goes to $5 trillion, the demand for warehousing will not just double. It will go up by 5 x. We just want to expand. We'll proceed with caution, not indiscriminately.
Okay, sir. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshay Sinha from Pioneer Investment. Please go ahead.
Congratulations on all the set of numbers. My first question is, what would be the demand scenario, if interest rates had to increase aggressively?
Yeah. See, as M.R. Jaishankar, CMD, has said, there is a good demand in the market. Yes, of course, rate hike, it will happen. You see from 6.75%, it has gone to 7.15%. But if you see EMI increase has only been 3%. Affordability has been very, very great for the people who have been working. Since the south cities are majorly IT ITES hub, and the salary increase they are looking, I think interest rates may not affect that much. But it all depends how much RBI increases the rate. See, because retail market is a very competitive market.
I was listening that banks are today going to the wholesale, retail market because retail market has become very competitive, and for them to increase price is very, very difficult. I think it may not affect that much, but let's see, because it is an uncertain scenario, like the way repo rate was increased by RBI. Let's see. It's very difficult to say right now, but we are hopeful that the demands will sustain.
Okay. Sir, another question. In Q3, we added 400,000 sq ft, and in Q4 we added 200,000 sq ft. On the leasing side, the momentum of fresh leasing has slowed down as compared to last quarter. What are the reasons behind slow growth?
Leasing?
Office.
No, no office, in fact, we have seen robust growth over the last two quarters. The total financial year, we added approximately one million sq ft. This quarter also, we are seeing quite a good momentum in terms of the inquiries, in terms of closure of possibilities. In fact, the real requirements are coming by, because office reoccupancy has increased significantly. The outlook is quite robust.
Okay, sir. One last question. What's the guidance on incremental leasing from your end?
Incremental leasing, see, we have an outlook currently based upon the pipeline. We have a pipeline of almost on million sq ft. Out of that, we feel that around three to four lakh will be closed over the next two to three months. Going forward, see, most of the transactions that are happening pan India in the first quarter is majorly due to. Going forward, we also feel the big size requirements will come. I personally feel that going forward, the pipeline size will also increase. The transaction size also will increase. The outlook is quite positive.
Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yashwant Mangera from Nuvama. Please go ahead. Yashwant Mangera, your line is in talk mode. Please go ahead with your question, please. It seems like we lost the connection for Yashwant. We will move to the next question from the line of Samar Sarda from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Mr. Samar, we're unable to hear you.
Hello. Can you hear me now?
Yeah, now we can hear you, sir. Please proceed.
Yeah. I had a couple of questions. One, we've taken three years to go from INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores of sales. If you could guide us, like, over what time frame, 18-24 months or 36 months we could target like INR 4,000 crores of yearly sales. That's my first question.
Just to guide, we've taken three years to go from INR 1,500 crores to INR 3,000 crores. In 2018/19, in residential, we had clocked our sales about 1,454. Adding everything together, we were about 1,500 crores. In three years we have kind of doubled. We see that given the land bank that we have, our execution capability and sales capability, we should continue to deliver similar levels of growth in the next two to three years. As our Chairman said, we are looking at about 20% area growth in the year.
Since realizations are going up, probably value growth will be faster, right?
Yeah. I did mention in the earlier thing, like, if you are looking at 20%, aiming for 20% growth, it is not from INR 3,000 crore to INR 3,600 crore. If you want, consider the inflationary aspects and price increases. Sometimes for the same volume, you can go up. It is premature to commit. It all depends on the you know, mix that happens. I did mention you know, the current average selling price is INR 6,400. If the likely increase the inflationary cost, et cetera, it can reach INR 6,900-INR 7,000 at the end of the year.
Okay. My second question was with respect to, some of these, notices on property tax and, the assessment of stamp duty which was completed. The Brookefield property also, like, the assessment on stamp duty ended up a little higher. Plus we've got, a INR 96 crore property tax notice, on a hotel this year. If you could, A, give a little more clarity on, these notices and, B, whether it is, like, across the market or it's, like, more particular to do with, our property.
No, it is across the market depending on where the properties or hotels are located. See, while for residential, for commercial, offices and commercial offices, the property tax applicability depends on location. There are six zones in Bangalore, A, B, C, D, E, F. Okay. The rates change from zone A to zone F. Zone A is always the central business district and zone F is the peripheral area. That is the variation the authorities have kept for residential and office buildings. Whereas when it comes to hospitality, erroneously they had kept one rate for all hotels. That has been challenged. That is work in progress. We won't be able to share any, yeah, anything more. That is also in the High Court.
That way I don't think that type of liability will be there. It is the job of the statutory auditors to make a note. We can't help that.
Fair enough. Well, since it is for a period of eight years, what would be the capitalized demand and the penalty and interest? Sorry, can you share that breakup at least?
No, I won't be able to share the breakup, but it is including all that.
Thank you, and all the best for the financial year 2023.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Venkat Samala from Tata AMC . Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. With respect to the 10-11 million sq ft that you acquired, could you give a breakup of how much would be outright and how much would be acquired through JDA? Also, as an extension.
We cannot so readily. I cannot give, but
Okay.
It will always be informed, maybe in the next week by our CFO.
Okay.
I don't want to offhand give a wrong figure.
Right. Sure. With respect to the previous land parcel that you've acquired, I understand that at this point in time the development potential is about 1 million sq ft. But what would we be expecting in terms of, you know, I mean, overall, you know, bookings or, rental revenue or whatever, I mean, whatever you have envisaged to build there. Any color?
No. Sorry, I'm not very clear of the question. Question is not clear.
I think you mentioned that as on this date you are planning a mix of residential and commercial there, right? On the OMR Road where-
Generally eight million is residential, two million is commercial. Yeah.
What I would like to understand is what kind of realizations can we expect on residential, and if you are building a commercial, what are the rentals there?
No, we have not even calculated so far. It is, you know, it is, everything depends on the mix. It is all work in progress. We will be doing, you know. The exact how much is residential, how much is commercial, how much is retail, it is all work in progress. Whatever gives us the best feasibility, we are going for that. It is on the drawing board.
Right. That was the only reason that I was asking particularly about this project is because, you know, INR 500 crore seems to be slightly on the higher side. That's why, you know, I just wanted to understand a little more.
Actually, it is not on the higher side. If I want to sell the property, I can sell it at 20% more.
How do you say?
If I want to sell the property today, I can sell it at 20% more. It is not high.
Okay. Maybe I'll just get offline as to what the reasons are. Lastly, sir, I mean, so the eight-odd million sq ft launches that you have planned, will it be well distributed throughout the year, or it will be more back-loaded?
It is, I think, normally distributed, but the bulk of them will come during Q1, Q2.
Okay. Okay.
Sorry. Half of Q1 is, yeah, Q2, Q3.
I mean, INR 900 crore-INR 1,000-odd crores per quarter should be doable, right? I mean, this could be like the base moving forward, assuming the launches come through. Would that be a fair assumption?
We'll keep our fingers crossed and work towards that. Also overall, you know, sentiments in the market, macro environment to be seen. You know, as long as our buyers don't look at the stock indices, it is okay.
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohit Shimpi from SBI Funds Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. So, my question was on the plotted market and how you look at that as a business opportunity. Do you see it as more of a one-off kind of opportunity led by the pandemic, or do you think this is a more structural long-term opportunity for the market and for the company?
Bangalore and many southern cities have always been a market for plot development. It is only that the recognized developers or the developers who build apartments had not got into it in the recent past. Now I think the COVID is one of the reasons for many developers getting into it as a avenue of business. Also, as far as buyers are concerned, they are also looking for an avenue for investment. Currently, plotted market development is a flavor of the season.
Right. I'll just get proper thought process. Would you want to, you know, continue to invest in more projects on the plotted side, or you think you would like to look at the current ones and then take a view looking at how the market is?
No. As long as they're geographically distributed and we don't mind looking at them. As long as, see, it's a continuous process of feasibility calculations. If there is a market where we don't mind entering, subject to usual due diligence process, and all that.
Okay, thanks. Just last one from me was during the, you know, pandemic and the work from home scenario, we understood that many, you know, buyers are preferring actually larger apartments. Are you seeing that trend continue, or is, you know, work from office and return to schools causing any change in that buyer thought process?
We expect it to continue at least in FY 2022, which happened. FY 2023, we expect it to continue primarily because right now, at least in the IT sector, it is going to be more a hybrid situation than in other financial sectors and other businesses corporates, where it is almost back to 100%, back to office. In the IT scenario, I think this hybrid will be there, hybrid situation will be there. That should continue to make people go for a larger size of the apartments or the houses.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, and congratulations on the excellent numbers. A couple of questions from my side. First, little bit specifying what would have been the contribution from launches to our pre-sales in Q4?
Sorry. We'll come back to you with the correct figures, next week.
Thank you.
My team tells me it is 20%.
Sure. How much of the sales, I mean, I just need the ballpark number, would have come from outside Bangalore?
In terms of total sales, for the year, about 40% came from outside of Bangalore and 60% came from Bangalore by value.
Sure. In terms of what was the rental income from the BTG and WTC building this year?
It was around INR 90 crores from Brigade Tech Gardens, and WTC sale order, Chennai, was INR 105 crores.
Great. That's it from my side and all the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Biplab Debbarma from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Sir, this is more on, the new business initiatives that we have. As you mentioned, you see that, we are at Bangalore being a tech-heavy industry, and you see that, the trend would be more into work from home kind of situation or hybrid situation, for the, office side. Is that one of the reasons that you are looking for, growth avenue in terms of data centers and warehousing, in terms of annuity business for your longer period of time?
No. See, there is no relation between work from home and the data center business. I would say the data center and the logistics business is a reflection of the government policies on connected with the data security. As far as logistics is concerned, it is the way the e-commerce is growing across the country and also the GST you know policy or the GST reduction has made things much more I would say easy for people to you know do business across the country. That is the reason. Bangalore is going to be one of the hubs. Of course, the data center or something like Chennai or Mumbai, they have a greater growth potential. It does not mean Bangalore has no potential.
It has potential. Similarly, the land is near the airport. That way there is, you know, it's in the high-tech zone and the Aeropark zone with so many aerospace companies like Boeing, Collins and others, several others having already established in the Aeropark. There is also always key demand for high-tech components, you know, storage and logistic issues.
Okay. Thank you. Again, sir, can you like, on a broader scale, how does the business economics stack up for warehousing and data center compared to like office leasing or the residential? Is it like much more lucrative, given the fact like there would be some players who would be doing it also, already right now? How does the business economics stack up in terms of IRR or kind of business economics for us as a business?
See, each one has to be seen in its own individual basis, sector. If everything is compared to residential, you know, then it will be difficult for other businesses to happen. I think the data center has to be viewed in its own merit. So sometimes it may be more beneficial IRR, sometimes it may be slightly less. But as long as it meets IRR requirements of the developer and the investor, I think there's nothing wrong. Give or take 1% or 2%, this is another avenue of business.
Oh, okay. Thanks a lot for explaining that.
Yeah.
Thank you. We'll take the last question for today from the line of Dilip Pandey from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, just a quick one. Now that the hotels are again seeing more demand, are the talks for again divesting stake to the PE investors back on the table?
It is always on the table. It's only the question is right valuation. Certainly in the last COVID period, we had kept it in cold storage because there was no point for trying to get a PE investor looking for a quick profit. We did not look at it. Now, as we talk, I got a mail from a PE investor expressing interest in hospitality. You know, I'm just saying within the last one hour. That way, whenever the right proposal comes, we are open to look at it. Post-COVID, things have started looking up only. I don't think we're in a great hurry to finalize a PE investor who would like to ride on the wave.
We all would like to ride on the wave first and then invite the PE investor.
Okay, sir. Any ballpark you'd like to share with all the newer hotels, obviously, because of COVID, they could not contribute, right? That we did not see. With all the hotel, entire hotel portfolio doing well enough, what is the sort of, revenue or EBITDA potential which your existing portfolio may have? Any ballpark number you'd like to share?
Hi, Dilip. All the hotels at least in Q4 are all profitable. In FY you already know FY 2022, the GOP was around close to INR 56.37 crores. Look at how April and May have been, the hotel doing extremely well. The ARRs have crossed pre-COVID levels. The occupancies in most cases have also crossed pre-COVID levels. Very bullish because of this travel. We are hoping to definitely cross pre-COVID year FY 2020 and get EBITDA multiples at least 15%-20% higher than what it was pre-COVID in FY 2020.
Okay. That's very helpful. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Pavitra Shankar, Executive Director for closing comments. Over to you, ma'am.
Good afternoon, everyone. Apart from financials, we have a few highlights to share with you today in closing. It's a great pride I share with you that our Chairman and MD, Mr. M.R. Jaishankar, has been conferred with an honorary doctorate for his contributions in infrastructure development and philanthropic approach to social cause by the Bangalore City University. Over the last 35 years, Mr. Jaishankar has, through Brigade, led by example as a visionary in the industry and an upstanding citizen who has given back to the community. It's indeed a proud moment for all of us at Brigade.
I'm also very proud to share that our Executive Director, Ms. Nirupa Shankar, was recognized in the elite 40 Under Forty list 2022 across India by Economic Times. Brigade Foundation, a not-for-profit trust, was established with an objective to promote education, healthcare, and community development. In FY 2021 and FY 2022, the foundation spent crores on CSR and other welfare activities. In line with its focus on community development, Brigade Foundation, in association with BCIC, that's Bangalore Chamber of Industry and Commerce, will be establishing the Brigade BCIC Skill Development Academy, a center of excellence and not-for-profit academy in the fields of construction, hospitality and tourism, manufacturing and retail.
Brigade Foundation will also fund the GoSports Foundation to conceptualize and implement a cricket excellence program for women cricketers in India under the name Equal Hue Cricket Excellence Program. This program will aim to create pathways for aspiring female cricketers from across the country. GoSports Foundation is a non-profit mentor working towards the development of India's top talents in Olympic and Paralympic disciplines through athlete scholarships and knowledge-building programs. The Indian Music Experience Museum, founded and supported by Brigade, curates interesting events and exhibitions, one such being Birdsong, which is getting great reviews from music lovers and naturalists alike, running through June this year.
The museum is also running an amazing youth mentorship program in partnership with the Manchester Museum for its international festival in October in Bangalore and next February in the U.K. With that is the wrap for the financial year 2022. We look forward to the coming year and hope you will all stay healthy and stay safe. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen of Brigade Enterprises Limited, this concludes this conference. We thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.