Q3 24/25

Jan 30, 2025

Quarterly report

Summary

Q3 profit was pressured by falling ferrochrome prices, while integrated operations helped cushion the impact. Management expects near-term softness but sees potential recovery and is advancing capacity and ethanol projects.

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the earnings conference call of Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited, arranged by Veritas Reputation. At this moment, all participant lines are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time, if you have a question, please press star and 1 on your touchtone keypad. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aryan Rana from Veritas Reputation. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Ray. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this conference call to discuss Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited, which is IMFA's financial results for the third quarter of fiscal year 2025, ended December 31, 2024. IMFA, India's leading fully integrated producer of ferro alloys, has delivered a resilient performance in Q3 FY 2025, despite a challenging market environment, reinforcing our focus on long-term value creation and operational excellence. For the past 3-4 years, IMFA has transitioned to profitability driven by strong share price appreciation. Also, over the last 2 years, IMFA's market cap has more than doubled and share price has surged by 89%. While EPS has grown at an annualized rate of 8.3%, the stock's 24% annualized gain has, again, over this period, outpaced EPS growth, reflecting increasing market confidence in the company's future. In the past year alone, IMFA's shareholders have earned a total shareholders return, TSR, of 10%, including dividends, while the 5-year TSR stands at an impressive 51% per year, reinforcing our track record of delivering value. Despite headwinds in the commodity markets, our strategic long-term contracts and cost optimization efforts have helped us mitigate the impact on Q3 FY 2025 results, ensuring steady performance in a dynamic environment. Our financial results are available on our website and stock exchanges for reference. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that today's discussion may include forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could impact future performances and that should be considered in the context of our businesses and market conditions. Joining us on the call today are Mr. Prem Khandelwalji, CFO and Company Secretary, Mr. Bijayananda Mohapatraji, Whole Time Director and Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Sanat Guptaji, CFO Designate, Mr. Binoy Agarwalaji, Head Power Business Unit, Mr. Sandip Narde, Head Mines Business Unit, and Captain Suresh Prabhu, Head Ferro Alloys Business Unit. We'll start with a brief overview of our Q3 FY 2025 performance, followed by an open floor for questions. With that, I will now hand over the call to Mr. Prem Khandelwalji, our CFO. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Thanks, Aryan. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's earnings call for Q3 FY25. This quarter, our performance came in below expectations, with the profit seeing some pressure due to market conditions. While this is not the outcome we had anticipated, we remain focused on navigating these challenges with a disciplined approach to operations, cost management and strategic planning. Looking ahead, we expect some further contraction in the next quarter as certain headwinds persist. However, we are taking proactive steps to mitigate risks and enhance efficiency, ensuring that we are well-positioned for a recovery when conditions improve, which is likely from next month onwards. The expansion and diversification plans are going on track. With Kalinganagar Phase One construction will start from next month and ethanol from December 2025 or January 2026. With Kalinganagar Phase Two thereafter, we are well poised to double our ferrochrome capacity in next three to four years. We appreciate the continued support of our stakeholders and remain committed to delivering long-term value. Thank you for your trust, and we look forward to discussing our performance and outlook in greater detail during this call. Thanks. Thank you very much. Shall we begin with a question and answer session? Yes. Now, I think we can start with Q&A session. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. First question is from Manan Mandur, from Wolfwood PMS. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, I had a few questions. The first question would be that what are the production and sale volume figures of ferrochrome this quarter? Just a moment. Let me see. Production was 65,865 tons and the sales 65,490 tons. Production you said 65,000. 65,865. Okay. Sales 65,490. 65,490. Okay. Sir, second question would be, what is the cost of chrome ore per ton for this quarter? It is 9,085 landed at Jajpur. 9,085. 85. Okay. And sir, what is the cost of coke per ton? Coke is around INR 14,628. INR 14,628. So that would be for half a ton, right? Yeah. It is the consumption value I am telling you. It is a part of ferrochrome cost. Yeah. Correct. So INR 14,628. Yes. And sir, cost of power this quarter? It is INR 18,671. 18,671. 671. Sir, per unit, how much would it be? Per unit variable cost is INR 4.03 paisa. Okay. The total cost is INR 527. Okay, INR 527. Sir, the last question would be, what is the average selling price of ferrochrome this quarter? This quarter selling price has come down. It is around INR 96,943. 96,943. How much do we anticipate in the next quarter? What would be the range for it? You see, giving the exact number is very difficult because you know we are selling on a spot basis also. Right. We will come to know at the end of the quarter only. Oh, okay. That is it from my side. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Aashav Patel from Molecule Ventures PMS. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is, what is our EBITDA cost for Q3 this quarter, which went by? EBITDA cost is INR 77,827, Aashav. Okay. And roughly, how do we expect the EBITDA cost per ton to pan out for Q4, which is the current quarter? Q4, I think it would remain more or less at these levels. More or less at this level. Yes. And sir, in terms of hypothetically speaking, I understand that we have the CTO to double our mining output. Is that correct understanding? From 6 lakh metric ton, we can now mine a total of 1.2 million metric ton of chrome. Sandeep, would you answer that? Yes. We have already received the CTE and CTO to double our production up to 1.2 million tons, together from both the mines, Sukinda and Mahagiri. We are already having all the permissions. All the permissions, right? If you need to extract more ore, we can do it right away. From day one, we can double our- Not right away. We have initiated the expansion projects for that. From Sukinda, we will be doing 6 lakh tons by FY 2032. We have already started working for that. We are converting our open cast mine to underground. That project has been started. Okay. Is there a way to expedite that? Can we extract the ore faster? No, already because we are converting open cast to underground, so that will take time and according to that, we have prepared the plan to expedite. Okay. How long does it take to build this underground ore specifically? I just wanted to understand the laid out timeline for the same, which is over the next five, six years. Is it because we have a staggered furnace coming up, or is it a time-consuming process to develop the mine itself? It's a time-consuming process. It takes about five years to start ore production from underground, and that depends upon the type of the ore. What type of ore we are having, how is the quality of the ground. So all these conditions are taken into consideration for this. Okay. From Mahagiri, we can anyways double the output because we have already- We were doing with 3 lakh tons 2 years back. From last year, we started augmenting the production. It is about 15%-20% per year. At that rate, by FY27, we will be producing 6 lakh tons. Okay. From Mahagiri. Okay, got it. How much are you targeting from Sukinda for FY27? That will be just 3 lakh tons only from open cast. From open cast. Okay, sir. That's all from my end. Thank you. Thank you, Aashav. Thank you. Next question is from Aditya from Axis Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just on the previous question. We will go up to 6 lakh tons at Mahagiri by FY 2027 from 3, and Sukinda by FY 2032. Is that right? Sandeep? Yes. Right. Can you just elaborate more on the expansion of ferrochrome from 20 ktpa to 0.5 million tons? How it will happen, in what phases? Suresh, can you explain that? Obtained consent to establish in the month of November, and almost major packages order is in progress. By March and April, we are going to release around the order of INR 400 crores, and we have already released the order of around INR 200 crores. We are expecting to power up our first furnace by around first quarter of 2026, 2027. By April to June. June we are expecting, June 2026, we are expecting to power up one smelter and the other smelter with a gap of 3 months. That is out of the first phase project expansion. That will add around 96,000 for existing power capacity. The remaining inorganic growth also we are planning wherever it is possible. Then in phase 2, we will start thereafter. Which is again likely in 3 to 4 years. That is how we are planning to reach around 0.5 million tons in 3 to 4 years' time. Okay. Any color on the inorganic part? Any advanced discussion? No, nothing as such. We are open to that, but nothing as such at the moment. Okay. My last question is on if you can throw some light on the current situation on ferrochrome prices. We have seen that in this quarter, prices have Can we say that prices have bottomed out? What is the outlook? Any directional color will be helpful. Suhel? Yeah. In the last quarter, there is a free fall of ferrochrome prices and the realization is decreased. We are expecting the similar prices for the next two months. Anything from March onwards, there will be an upswing in the prices. Now there is a rollover of the same prices. We are expecting the bottom up as happened in both Chinese and many European markets. We are anticipating the market condition to improve the latter part of this quarter and the first quarter of 2025. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you, Aditi. Thank you. Next question is from Madhur Rathi from Counter Cyclical Investments. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to understand, we have INR 1,750 crore CapEx to increase our production capacity as well as create a new ferrochrome unit. Madhur, you are not audible. Madhur, you are not audible. Are you using a speakerphone? Sir, is my audio right now better? Yeah, little better. Yes. Sir, I wanted to understand what is the payback period expected from the INR 1,750 crore CapEx that is being done on ferrochrome? No, I did not get you. What is that? What would be the payback period for these investments that we are making in increasing production at all these three units? On a steady state, like based on the past 5-10 years of pricing, we might have taken a straight projection. On that, what would be the payback for this? No, it is very difficult to project any payback as such because you know our industry is very cyclical. If the prices are good, then it can be 2-3 years also. But if it is not so good, then it could be 5-6 years. So giving any number, predicting any number is very difficult. Okay, got it. Sir, we have got into ethanol production. Sir, I wanted to understand how much are we going to invest in this, and sir, why are we getting into ethanol when we are a metal player? What is the rationale behind getting into ethanol? This point we have discussed in quite a detailed manner in the last con call also. That we have some surplus capacity available in Therubali and Therubali we are not expanding ferrochrome because of logistic disadvantages. We are utilizing our idle capacities there, and that is agricultural field where enough raw material is available. So we are utilizing our idle assets there to generate some money. Okay. That was the idea. So it's a 120 KLPD plant with roughly INR 150 crore of investment, which will generate around INR 300 crore of revenue and EBITDA margin expected around 10%. Okay, so around a five-year payback period. Okay, sir. Got it. Yes. Sir, thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Manan Mandur from Wolfwood PMS. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thank you again for the opportunity. My question was on coke. Where do we get this coke from? Suhel? Yeah. Coke we get the ultra ultra low phos coke from Colombia and Arizona, and we are also getting semi coke from China. There are two sources. Colombia and China? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Joe Shaw from Seven Seas. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Today morning, we had excellent CNBC-TV18 interview of our managing director. It was very informative. Binoy, I have one question. Now we have signed a 25-year renewable power agreement with Jindal Group. At present, what price we are buying this renewable power? The power will commence by June 2026. Yes, I see. Okay. That is in line with our requirement. Right. No, but what price we will be paying for this? Sorry? What rate we will be paying for renewable power? That is ex-generator bus bar tariff is INR 3.84. INR 3.84. INR 3.84 paise. Okay. That is similar to our thermal variable cost, thermal power variable cost, right? Part with thermal variable. Yeah. Okay. Good. Okay. Prem, one more thing. Do we have any expansion plan for ethanol? Because ethanol demand is going up and Government of India is also including tariff and encouraging ethanol production. Do we have any expansion plan for ethanol? We are already putting up one plant, Jyotirmay. So once that is operational, then we will see. I see. what are the nuances in the business, and then we'll decide. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, one question for Sandeep. South African situation, our MD also mentioned, is very bad from power angle, Eskom is having so many problems, and same with the Transnet, all the logistics. So nobody is going to South Africa for investment. In the past, in fact, taken bold step of venturing into Indonesian coal mine, which did not succeed. That is a different story, but we had the guts to go to Indonesia. So can we look for some good chromite mine in South Africa to buy a cheap rate, which will supplement our chrome ore supply for the ferrochrome production? Do we have any such plan, or are we exploring this opportunity? No, I don't see any opportunity there, Jyotirmay, because we have enough ore here itself. I see. Okay. We have enough plan to expand our capacity in India, so no point in going outside and exploring opportunities there because it is unknown terrain. I do not know whether any lucrative mines will be available there. Right. In the past also, we scouted throughout the world and nothing good was available. Unnecessarily wasting time and money, I do not think is proper there. Sure. I think our quality of ore, chrome ore and lumpy chrome ore, is much better than South African chrome ore, right? Yes. Yes. Price is also much more attractive. Our cost of this product is about INR 9,000, which is less than $200 UG2 price of South Africa today. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Right. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Divya Agarwal from SECOM Family Office. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. My first question is, what is the reason for the softening ferrochrome prices, and what are the nature of steps taken to counter the impact of this softening ferrochrome prices? Suresh? The price is basically impacted by the Chinese steel consumption. They have oversupplied the steel in this quarter. Now they are diluting their steel stocks. That is the main reason there was no consumption for the ferrochrome. Many of the smelters at China is under pressure, and they are operating at lower capacities. What are the steps that are being taken to safeguard us from this softening chrome prices? See, we have an integrated model of operations. We have an impact. But because of our integrated model and also the depreciation rupee is helping us to absorb those shocks. Okay. Secondly, what is the cost structure differential between the non-integrated producers and IMFA, given your comments on the current conditions which are unsustainable for non-integrated producers? The non-integrated producers, by buying ore and power, the cost of the production comes around INR 109,000 to INR 110,000. That is $110,000. Whereas IMFA, we are produced, cost of production is around EBITDA cost INR 77,000. INR 77,000. INR 77,000 approximately. Okay, sir. Noted. Thirdly, what do you think on the ferrochrome prices? Will this improve from here on? Can you list some specific factors to back this up based on the demand and supply dynamics going on into the market? See, we are expecting the ferrochrome prices will be an uptick from the first quarter of the coming year, maybe the latter part of this quarter. Already the prices are bottomed up, and same prices rollover in this month and also for February. But, sir, what gives you the confidence that there will be an uptick in the prices? Because there is no drop in the Chinese prices in the last month. Generally, the freefall has stopped, and their rollover happened with the same price. They do not have the capability to operate at these levels. We are anticipating there will be a reverse of the prices. Awesome. Lastly, what are the latest set of data points from China which we should be watchful for, given your comments on poor economic data from China? This year, they have made the 5% growth as per the annual target, and similar level of expecting in the coming year also. But of course, the vacations will be over in this month. So the positive turnover may be anticipated from March onwards. Indian months, 12 quarter for China. Yeah, sir. Thank you. That's all from my side, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Rajesh Agarwal from Moneyor. Please go ahead. Sir, I always track Jindal Stainless cost of ferrochrome, but this quarter their cost has not fallen down. So why our realization has come down, if you take a mixture of spot and long term? No, we can't comment on JSL here, Rajesh. Okay. Generally, because the difference is INR 5,000 per ton, but this time it is INR 10,000 ton. Their cost was INR 1,07,000, and our realization is around INR 96,000. So I've been tracking for last three years No, sir. I don't know the difference was always INR 5,000 per ton. No, we can't compare in that manner. I don't know how they're accounting. Because the spot prices are lower or the long term prices which we entered is lower contract. Hello? Sorry, come again. Spot price? Because we have a mixture of both spot and long term, no? Yes. How much is long term percentage in? Long term percentage is roughly around, Suresh, 40%? 40%. 60%, I think. 60%. What was the realization on that? Realization is around $0.82 average realization. Average realization, okay. 82 cents comes to how much per ton? INR per ton, no? INR per ton, it is coming around I will let you know. For the contract I am asking. For this quarter, the average price is coming around 81 cents. INR 81 cents. That comes around INR 90,000, 89 to 90. 89,000. Okay. That is the reason. Sir, how much will the volumes going, 25,000, 26,000, how much capacity will come in on that in the next financial year our volumes can go up by? Next financial year, volumes can go up by another 50,000. 50,000. Okay. 50,000. We are able to sell completely? Yes. Why don't we sell in spot if we have a better realization? Suresh? No, we have a long-term agreement, so our customers are of a long term in nature. Wherever some part available, we are selling it as spot. In our domestic market also, we have an exposure. We have increased our exposure in the last quarter. Last quarter. Okay. Wherever we get a better price, we can sell in spot also. We have a much long-term agreement, so that is why whatever the available quantity we are also selling. Okay. It is for how many? Yearly contract or 2 years or 3 years? How? Quarterly. Quarterly. So every quarter we have a flexibility. If the spot is higher, we can sell in spot. No, we have mix of contracts, Rajesh. Some contracts are three years, some contracts are five years, some contracts are monthly. Okay. One year. So there is a mix of contracts, long term and spot. Okay. But if the demand is- Prices remain every quarter, but the contract tonnage and those things are for three years, one year like that. Okay. But if the demand locally is good, why we need to enter into contracts? There is a constraint in the demand here in local market. There is a constraint how much you can sell here. Okay. There is a Not that whatever we are producing, we can sell the entire quantity in domestic market. Okay. But if the demand goes up, then we can sell. Yeah, obviously, then wherever we get better price, we will try to sell there. That flexibility is there in the system. Yes. Okay. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press Star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Saket Kapoor, from Kapoor and Company. Please go ahead. Yeah. Namaskar, Prem sir. Namaskar, Saket. Sir, firstly, you mentioned about this 50,000 additional capacity, which we will be selling, that is the ferrochrome we will be selling in H2. If you could just elaborate on the same. Yeah, we are expecting this Kalinganagar phase one to be operational by April to June next year, and by September, the second furnace. Both the furnaces should be operational by end of September. So six months, we should be getting around 40,000, 45,000 tons next year. So sir, for financial year, 1st April 2025 to 31st March 2026, in that period, we will have this 50,000 additional capacity because- No, fiscal 2027 we are talking about. Okay. This year it is going to be the same trend which we will be exhibiting for this year. Yeah. Next year, additional 50,000 will come. Yeah. Sir, I also missed this Chinese part of the explanation which sir was mentioning. If you could just narrate once again the reason for the Chinese smelter switched off and all, sir. Can you please tell me once again? Suresh? Chinese prices. There was a free fall of Chinese prices from the month of November, mainly due to the oversupply of stainless steel. The ferrochrome producers are not able to sell their product, and the prices are so low, so it is not able to continue their smelting operations. They are diluting their stock and we are anticipating that they will be reversing their prices in the coming first quarter of FY 2025-2026. Okay. Just that chrome ore is the component and also nickel. Have we seen the same trend? I have not observed the price trend for nickel and all. Other commodities that goes into stainless steel have also behaved in a similar price pattern since the output has gone down. Yeah. There is a similar tendency in the nickel, but in the coming months onwards, the nickel prices are expected to rise from Indonesia support itself. Sir, a couple of questions on the P&L side. When we look at our other expenses line item for this quarter, the balance is INR 106 crore, and the comparable number for last year was INR 88 crore. Understanding why this increased, what explained this increase? It is mainly on account of repairs, maintenance, and outward carriage. I mean, the freight cost. Those two things have gone up. That is why the other expenses have also gone up from INR 88 to INR 104. Okay. Sir, now Donald Trump administration in anvil. Have you seen the port prices or the freight cost trending lower? Suresh? The freight cost in the last quarter increased, but now it is softening. Is there any quantification you can give, additional cost just because of the higher freight cost on a comparable basis? You mean in terms of rupee? Yes, sir. Impact on rupee. Those breakups are not available now, so we will have to look into that. Okay. Sir, now coming to the coking coal part of the story, sir. I think so in Australia, there are some natural disturbances in the mining activity. Does that also change the outlook for coking coal going ahead, and the pressure on margins can accelerate because of that? What is our thought process on the same? Suresh? The coke prices, we are actually sourcing from Colombia, and the prices are almost flat for the quarter and the similar prices we are expecting in the coming quarter also. Okay, sir. For the coal prices which we use for power generation, those linkages and prices are constant, or what are the trends there? Binay? Coal prices for power plant will remain same as Q3 FY 2025. Okay, and last two points. Sir, firstly, about during this interview and all, there were some thoughts about this inorganic expansion and some thing on the block by Tata Steel. Can you explain that? Does Tata Steel have anything on block for ferrochrome mines or the chromite facilities? What is the buzz around, sir? No. See, we can't comment on the rumors, Saket. Right. It is not proper for us to name anybody. Okay, sir. Our expansion plans are on track, and we are going ahead with that. As we said earlier also, if we get any opportunity in organic growth, definitely we will look at that. But nothing reportable at the moment. Right, sir. My question was not whether we participate or not. I was just trying to understand. Just like in the case of Balasore Alloys earlier, but in that sense only I was asking whether in Tata Steel case also there is some bit of story coming up, or what is the effect that Tata Steel is looking. Because generally, Tata Steel does not exit the business in their segment. That is really their business outlook. We cannot comment on that. Yes, sir. Lastly, sir, this should be the farewell call for you also. Next quarter and on, you are retiring from the organization. Yes. I think Mr. Sanat Guptaji is going to take over as CFO from 8th of March. Yes, sir. You will be there with the organization as a consultant, or, sir, this would be the- No, I will continue as senior advisor here. Okay. But Mr. Sanat Guptaji is going to be in chair from next call onwards. Okay, sir. My best wishes to you, sir. Thank you. Good life ahead, sir, and all the best to the team, sir. We hope that. The one point was about in the notes, which was also mentioned, that generally I'm sorry to interrupt. Yes, sir. Thank you. We move to the next question. The next question is from Kaushik from Wolfwood PMS. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just want to understand, Jindal Stainless has announced a very aggressive expansion plan. The ferrochrome that will be required for them, is that available in India currently? You should be asking that to them, not to us. We can't comment on their business plan. No, but I'm just asking from ferrochrome point of view, is that much ferrochrome available? They've announced one million tons of capacity expansion. The kind of ferrochrome, the quantum that is required in that is available right now, the capacity. Is that kind of capacity commercially feasible right now in the country? Suresh, do you have any idea? At present, we are producing less ferrochrome because of the ore constraints. Much information at this moment is not available. Okay. Thank you. That is it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Shubham, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Sir, am I audible properly? Yeah, Shubham. Sir, first of all, my heartiest congratulations for the results in this difficult quarter. As I understand that the prices were quite challenging. Still, we have been able to maintain our good prices. Sir, there are three questions, and first question is from the mining sector. Sir, what is our stripping ratio for the chrome which we are extracting, and what is the grade of chrome? Sandeep? The stripping ratio for Sukinda open cast is 1 is to 3.47. Okay. There are variants from low to high grade. Sir, what is the grade of high grade and low grade? Low grade is less than 40%. Low grade is less than 40%, medium grade is up to 52, and from 52 onwards, that is high grade. That is fine, sir. But what is the average grade which we are producing, sir? Average. We are producing in the range of medium grade. So in general, grade is not taken into percentage, and these terms are used, low grade, medium grade, high grade. So we are at average medium grade. What is the Cr/Fe, sir? That Cr/Fe. Suraj Babu, can you check? Yeah. It is around 3.2 to 3.3. 3.2, sir? Yeah. Okay. My next question is, you mentioned that the chrome ore landed cost is INR 9,085. Right? So sir, what is our specific consumption of chrome ore, sir? It is around 2.5 tons per ton of ferrochrome. 2.5, sir? Yeah, 2.5. Okay. And sir, you also mentioned that the cost of coke is INR 14,628 in the previous answers. Yes. So sir, what is our specific consumption of coke, sir? 6.5 tons. Sir, could not understand. 0.5 tons per ton of ferrochrome. 500 kg, sir? Yeah, 500 kg. Okay. Sir, you also mentioned that you are importing from two regions, mainly Colombia and China. What is the average percentage which you are using? Say, what is the percentage of Colombian coke and semi-coke, sir? It is based upon the requirement. It varies from 70% to 30%, 60%, 40%. Colombian coke- Okay, sir. And let's say semi-coke. Sir, Chinese one is semi-coke, right? Yes. Okay. And sir, in the next quarter, are we expecting any further reduction in cost? Like you mentioned that repair and maintenance cost have gone up, outlet premium gone up. So what is our total? You also mentioned that our total EBITDA cost is somewhere around 77, right? Yes. 77-78 in quarter 3. Yeah. What is our tentative expectation from Q4 or Q1 2026 onwards? Any reduction expected in cost? Q4, we are expecting to remain same, and difficult to predict at the moment for Q1 next year. Okay. Sir, last question from my side. Sir, you have mentioned that 60% of the sales we are doing exports because of our long-term 90 months and 40% we are selling in the- No. We are exporting 90%. Out of that long-term is 60%, 70% and balance on export basis. Okay. Sir, 90% we are exporting and 10% we are selling in domestic market. Yes. Is that 10% upgrade or pure FG only? No. All these ferrochrome, charge chrome. Okay. Sir, what is the average realization which we are getting in domestic market, sir? No, we do not have the breakup like that. I can give you the total realization, which is around, I said INR 96,000 earlier. Understood. There is no breakup. Okay. It is INR 96,943 average realization. Okay. What is the grade of ferrochrome which we are selling? Total average grade which we are selling overall. Suraj, I think it is what? 61%, 62%? Yeah. It is 61% to 62%. Okay. Thank you, sir. That is all from my side. Thank you. Wishing you good quarter four and onwards. Thank you. Next question is from Joe Shaw from Seven Seas. Please go ahead. Prem, our best wishes for your new career as an IMFA advisor. I hope like S.P. Mathur, you will also have very long term with IMFA. My best wishes for you. Thank you. And also best wishes for Bijayananda Mohapatraji, Sunil Gupta, and also SR Red-. My basis is for you. Now to New Team, my request is, after last few days, infrastructure have lost a lot of money because market cap has gone down very much sharply. Please see how this market cap can be protected. I know this market operations are not in your hand, but still, even finance minister also stepped in when market cap is. Here we are facing the similar situation. Protection of shareholders' value is also management responsibility in a way. Please see what best can be done. Prem, one more suggestion. Now in my city of Mumbai, every day, millions travel by train. Millions of people travel by train. We don't find anyone wearing this COVID mask. COVID is gone now. We lost four physical AGM because of COVID. COVID is no longer there. If I, as a pioneer, coming AGM, we should have physical AGM where people can come and meet the new directors, understand them, and we have more interaction. Please consider, you also consider this physical AGM for the next 2024, 2025. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Shah. Yes, point noted. We're looking at that time. Please. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay, that's all. Yeah. Thank you. Next question is from Akhilesh B., who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon. Am I audible? Yes. Yeah. Sir, I had a few questions. First of all, in our long-term contracts, what is considered as the benchmark price? Which is the benchmark price based on which the pricing is decided? Suresh? Yeah, in POSCO, it is around $86, $87. No, he is asking about what is benchmark price. Benchmark is Baosteel and Tsingshan price we are considering. It gets fixed for the whole quarter. It is renegotiated. It is fixed for a quarter or how often it changes? No, this changes every month in Chinese price. Okay. When you say that some Chinese prices came down to $0.75, et cetera, that is reflecting in this benchmark and in our realization already? Yes. Already in this quarter we suffered because of the fall in the prices. Okay. And our spread on this benchmark with the customers are renegotiated every year or the spread is also fixed long term like 3, 5 years, et cetera? No, we have quarterly negotiations of prices with South Korea POSCO and others are based on the quantities decided for the year, but this price is varied on the benchmark. No, I got the benchmark part, but your spread on the benchmark, whatever is plus, also this is an exports price or freight also is fixed for the whole quarter or for the whole month with your This is FOB prices. FOB price. Yeah. If freight goes up or down, it is not affecting our profitability if freight is going up or down? Yes. And sir, today with our current production capacity, what would be our global production share of HRC or apparel? You are asking at what level we are there? No. 2.5 lakh ton servicing capacity today. So what is our global production market share? That is what I want to know. It is around approximately is around INR 90 million. Prem sir, your voice is cutting actually. Not clear. Prem. Yeah. I think. Sir, your voice is not clear. I am not sure if it is clear to moderator or others. Prem sir's voice is not coming clear. Mr. Khandelwal, we cannot hear you very clearly. Your voice is breaking. Sir, the global production you are asking? How is the global production? It is around 90 million tons. 90 million. Okay. So we are around 3% of global production. Okay. Also want to wish Mr. Khandelwal all the best for his future. It was a great pleasure to interact with him on these calls and we will miss his presence. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead. Sir, you mentioned about FOB for us, our export part. That means the freight is not being part of line item. I missed that point. As you mentioned that freight costs have been higher and those costs have increased the other expenses, but you were just explaining about free on board also. If you could just explain what you are trying to convey. Suresh? Our prices are CIF based, so slight impact will be there during this export of the material. Sir, come again. You are not very much audible. Hello. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Please. Yes. Our prices are CIF prices. The washing side, rise in the prices will impact us. The change in the prices will impact our selling prices. Okay. Sir, in the management comments, Mr. Panda mentioned about margins. Further, our margins will be bolstered by treasury operations. Going ahead also, sir, I think so quarter on quarter, our treasury or the other income has remained flattened. How is the treasury book going to behave, sir? Where have we invested the treasury money, and also what is our cash balance and the CapEx done for the nine months? Parna, could you answer that? Yeah. In this market also, we are having around INR 890 crore of total amount invested in various funds, bonds, and even to some extent to the FD. This is basically the surplus from the business which has come in. Even though the market was down, still by switching in, switching out, we have managed a good return. If you see that quarter-on-quarter also, we have maintained it out. From there itself, what we are getting is a good amount of interest and income from the returns of switch in, switch out from the bonds. That's actually adding up to our PAT and the margins. That's the important point to be noted for us. The most important point is that we are debt-free and having almost INR 900 crore of total invested amount. Sir, on the CapEx part, sir, how much have we spent for the expanded capacity as of the 9 months, and how much balance we will be spending for this year? If you could just give the full number. As of now, we have invested about around INR 150 odd crore. Overall, we expect that if I go by the actual cash outlay, another INR 150 odd crore will be by end of this year, which we'll be spending it out. Another INR 200 crore cash balance may go down from INR 890. Yes, INR 200 crores will go down from that balance that we have in the investment amount. Great, sir. Thank you, sir, and all the best. Next year, the maximum amount of cash outlay will happen for the Kalinganagar project. Next year, sir, can you outline how much you will be spending? Next year we are expecting somewhere around INR 450 crore-INR 500 crore. Okay, sir. If we take this nine-month cash generation, sir, how much have we generated for this nine months? Net of taxes. If we go by, it is around nine months ended INR 370 odd crore we have generated out from this. Okay, got it. Right, sir. Thank you, sir, and all the best to the team. Thank you, Sachin. Thank you. Next question is from Divya Agarwal from SECOM Family Office. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Just wanted clarification. What is the benchmark that we monitor for the long-term contract? I was not able to clearly hear that. Can you repeat that? Suresh? We follow Tsingshan benchmark, so that is monthly rollovers. And for POSCO, every quarter we have a benchmark. Sorry? For POSCO, every quarter we negotiate based on the benchmark of the Chinese steel and also the existing market. So right now it is at $0.75 in the Chinese benchmark. So for the Chinese market it is $0.75. For POSCO it is around $0.84. Okay, sir. Got it. Thanks. Thank you. Next question is from Shubham, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Sir, am I audible properly? Yeah, Shubham. Sir, there are a couple of questions. My first question is on the O&M cost. What is the overall O&M cost for our quarter? I didn't get you. O&M cost for what? O&M cost for our smelter or whole IMFA level. Total operations and maintenance cost. No, no. We don't have such kind of breakup here. Okay. What kind of cost you are looking for? I mean, your fixed cost or Basically, our contractual manpower cost. Contractual manpower for running the plant. Contractual? No, no. We don't have those kind of breakups. Okay. And sir, I wanted to understand the specific consumption of our electrode also because this is one of the key consumable for making the ferrochrome. Specific consumption of electrode-based. Suresh, do you have that number? Yeah. It is around 14-16 kg. Gotcha. Okay. And sir, what is the specific consumption of furnace oil or LPG for producing the briquettes? That figure at present I don't have. On an average, also will help, sir. This will be asked separately by way of mail, I think. These things are very minute numbers. We don't keep those numbers with us. Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you. You can get in touch with us through email for all these questions. Sure, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Abhishek Sawant for closing comments. Mr. Abhishek Sawant? Yeah. Thank you, Leo. While Q3 FY 2025 presented short-term headwinds, IMFA remains fundamentally strong with a resilient operational framework and a positive long-term demand outlook. As the global stainless steel market recovers, our strategic initiatives and cost efficiency measures will drive sustained growth. We appreciate the continued support of all our stakeholders and remain confident in delivering long-term value. On behalf of the Board of Directors and Management, we thank you all for your participation in this call. Have a good day ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. On behalf of Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited and Veritas Reputation, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.