Q3 23/24

Jan 31, 2024

Quarterly report

Summary

Q3 FY24 revenue rose 10% YoY and profit increased tenfold, driven by improved realizations and lower costs. Expansion plans target higher ferrochrome and ore capacity, with land possession and market pricing among key uncertainties.

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the earnings conference call of Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited, arranged by Veritas Reputation. At this moment, all participant lines are in the listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time, if you have a question, you may please press star and one on your touch tone keypad. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Aryan Rana from Veritas Reputation. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thanks, Lisa. Good evening, everyone. We warmly welcome and express our gratitude to each one of you for being a part of today's earning conference call for Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited. I am Aryan Rana, your host for the session, and it brings me great joy to guide you through the proceedings as we analyze the unaudited results for the quarter concluding on December 31, 2023. We are delighted to announce that IMFA's market valuation has witnessed an impressive surge of nearly 103% in the past 10 months, crossing the INR 3,000 crore market capitalization milestone. IMFA's market valuation currently stands at approximately INR 3,548 crores. This achievement, despite external challenges, solidifies IMFA's position as India's foremost fully integrated manufacturer in mining industry. While the detailed financial results are available on our company website and the stock exchanges, it is essential to note that our discussion may include forward-looking statements contingent upon known and Q3 financial performance and address any queries you may have. I welcome Mr. Prem Khandelwal, Mr. Bijayananda Mohapatra, our Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Deepak Mohanty, overseeing the Ferro Alloys business unit, Mr. Binoy Agarwalla, heading the Power Business Unit, and Mr. Sandeep B. Narade in charge of the Mines Business Unit. With this, I now hand over the call to Mr. Prem Khandelwal. The financial highlights. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Aryan. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you all to this Q3 FY24 earning call of the company. As you might have seen, running quarter of previous year, 10% from INR 614 crore to INR 675 crore. The profit has gone up by tenfold from INR 10 crore to INR 108 crore. So primarily, the primary reason and lower cost. The sales mix has gone up from 93,000 to 103,000. Gone down from 80,000 to 72,000. Through our press release. So I will not delve into those and we Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone. The star and one on your touch tone telephone. Please unmute handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is on the line of Kaushal Khairia from Walford. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, on the CapEx, I just want to understand, the CapEx is on track and how are we going to go about the CapEx on the chrome ore mining front and the furnace front? Can you just explain in a little detail, please? Yeah, CapEx. With the timeline, please. CapEx front, we are well on the time. But the possession of land is getting little delayed, so we are trying to overcome that. But if we are not getting the position within time, then it might get delayed little bit. But that is not going to suffer the project too much. We will try to contain that delay. As far as amount is concerned, the furnace, we are going to spend around INR 600 crore. On mining, we are going to spend around INR 1,000 crore. But this CapEx is going to be spent over a period of seven years. Sir, so the furnace capacity will go up by 33%, right? Yes. It will go up by one lakh ton. So from 284,000, the capacity will go up to 384,000. Okay. Sir, the mining capacity, the commentary by Mr. Panda in the press release, he has said that this year we will cross 6 lakh tons for the first time. Yes. So the mining capacity we are increasing gradually. Is it so? Yeah, yeah. So the blast furnace- Yes. If everything goes Yes. Sorry. Please go ahead. If the blast furnace, if everything is on track, I believe the blast furnace will come on track by September 2026, correct? No, it is September 2025, not 2026. Oh, okay. By September 2025. Oh, okay. If I read, the land procurement is on track. Yes. Okay. But the mining capacity, that will go up gradually. We should see more than 6 lakh tons in FY 2024, and by FY 2025, that means by March FY 2025, how much should we see on the mining front? Sandeep, would you answer that? In FY 2025, we are targeting 7.3 lakh tons of ore. This is March 2025. FY 2025. Sorry. FY 2024, we will be crossing 6 lakh tons, close to 6.7 lakh, and in FY 2025, that will be 7.3 lakh. Sir, this excess chrome ore, we are hoping to sell it in the open market then? No, no. We have no plans to sell in the open market. The excess ore, either we will stock it or we will look for some alternative to use that ore. But no plan to sell ore in the market. Why, sir? Because in the domestic market, we can command a good price also, right? No, but as a policy, we are not selling ore. Okay. Okay, sir. Okay. That is clear my end. Right. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Saran Sethi from Samar Wealth Managers. Please go ahead. Sir, am I audible? Yes, sir. Please proceed. Sir, I want to know what are the key drivers behind revenue growth, and what is the future outlook on demand side? Deepak? Can you come again, once again? I could not. Little bit of echoing happened while you were speaking. Can you repeat your question? Yes, sir. Of course. Sir, I want to know what are the key drivers behind revenue growth, and what is the future outlook on demand side? No, demand outside, let me tell you, as per ISSF, which is the International Stainless Steel Forum, they are expecting around 4% stainless steel consumption. Okay. In that manner, what it was expected for basically calendar year 2023, it was around 60 million, but actually it could be slightly less. But in calendar year 2024, it is going to exceed 60 million tons. This will drive the requirement. As such, we being the integrated producer and long-term kind of our agreement with many people, we have also opportunity when our other production comes into line, we have the opportunity to increase in those areas as well as new areas. We are also looking at different kind of products and also to cater to other markets. I don't think as far as, because demand and the issue is there, we do not have any challenges really to enhance our involvement in the global front with the big players, where we have long-term relationships. Considering our consistency in quality and delivery, everything, we have enough opportunity to cope up to the additional quantity. Hope I have explained. Saran, as far as the revenue growth is concerned, we are already two furnaces in Kalinga Nagar, so that will increase the capacity by 1 lakh ton. In FY 2026, we'll see the revenue growth also. And sir, secondly, do you have any significant plan for domestic markets? Domestic market as of now- Yes. Yeah, Deepak, please. It is not at the moment, but as it grows, we will be also catering to the domestic market, as per the requirement. Okay, sir. Thank you. That is all. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Dhruv from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible, sir? Yes. Good afternoon, and congratulations on good set of numbers, sir. My first question is on, if you could give breakup of cost of production per ton for Q3 FY 2024 and our EBITDA cost based on the RM prices. Our ferrochrome cost for Q3 FY 2024 is INR 72,000. Okay. EBITDA cost for Q3 FY 2024 is INR 79,000. Yes. Okay. How do we see that shaping up for Q4 FY 2024? It is more or less likely to remain same. Okay. What about the power cost for current quarter and the YOY? If you could give a breakup of that. Below it? Sorry, I couldn't get you. You are comparing with Q3 FY 2024 versus Q4 FY 2024? Q3 FY 2023 and Q3 FY 2024. The power cost Q3 FY 2023 variable cost was INR 4.77. Okay. Q3 FY 2024, the variable cost has come INR 4.30. There is a saving of around INR 0.47. Okay. Sir, considering the rise in realizations of ferrochrome in the past few months, how do we see our Q4 realization? Will it be similar to what we did in Q3? How is that panning out? No, Q4 realization will be a little lower. Lower. Yeah. Little lower because the benchmark has come down by 9 cents. So I think there will be some reduction in our price also. Okay. I would like to add a few things also. In addition to that, you know that Chinese New Year and other places like Christmas holidays and other things, particularly month of February is a month when actually normally people don't conclude anything. They do it prior. So it will be remaining in that level. So it will be slightly lower with the decrease in long term this benchmark price. Okay. Sir, what will be our cost for coal and coke inventory, as there had been some spike in the coke prices. So when will that be coming in the cost? Coke cost? Yeah, coke cost, actually it has come down. We are using it somewhere in $320, around in that range at the moment, and the prices are going up slowly because the coking coal prices have also gone up. But our booking is always forward because we get it from Colombia, and it's a long lead time required for that consignment term. So our thing will be more or less in the range of the present market scenario, which is around $350 to $360. So not much change will be there in coke, particularly coke front. Okay. It has come down drastically, in fact, from the earlier quarters, if you look at other. Last year corresponding quarter, it was quite high. If you could give a number for that, sir. Corresponding year, if you look at the coke, INR 47,000. Let me just one minute. It was around INR 47,000, which has come down by around INR 10,000 now. Okay. INR 47,000. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, sir. That is all from my side. Right. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead. Yeah. Namaskar sir. Thank you for this opportunity, sir. Sir, firstly, when we look at the numbers on a QoQ basis, our depreciation has gone down from INR 26 crore to INR 15 crore. So what explains this, sir? We have changed the method, Saket, this time from WDV to SLM. That's why it has gone down from INR 27 crore to INR 14 crore. Okay. Now, sir, QoQ, this will be the number going ahead? Yes, because now it is SLM, so more or less this is going to be the number, going forward. Sir, why we have adopted this straight line method? What was the reason, sir? We had appointed a consultant to study the plant life and other things. We have found industry norms also, most of the companies in our industry are following SLM method. We were only following WDV. We did a study and then came to conclusion that SLM is more suitable to us compared to WDV. That's why we decided to change the method. Prem sir, also for the other expenses, QoQ, we see a reduction of INR 7 crore on a base of INR 118 crore. Any one-off items, or what has led to this reduction of INR 7 crore? Saket, INR 7 crore is nothing. It's only 7%. 7% is there, sir? Yeah. It is normal. I think some item might have reduced. Okay. Sir, can you give me the cost pattern for the second quarter? INR 72,000 you gave for Q3. Yes. What would be the cost for the previous quarter, sir? It was 70,500. Come again, sir. 70,500. Okay. So the cost has gone up QoQ? Yes. Okay. And the realization for Q2 and Q3? Realization for Q2 was INR 101,000. Q3, I have already told, INR 93,000. 123. Okay. For the next quarter also, these metrics are going to remain? Selling price, we are not aware how it will shape up, but for the cost it is going to- Selling price will come down a little bit, but cost will remain same. Cost is going to remain same. Yes. Sir, today in one of the interview, the MD did spoke about our ore output to go up, and you were earlier discussing. So what are we contemplating in terms of the excess ore that we are going to mine other than stocking it? What other activities are we envisaging? Any type of job work? Nothing has been frozen at the moment, Saket, so it is not proper for us to delve into that right now. We are just exploring the alternatives to use that ore. Okay, sir. Sir, lastly, on the coal prices, we have seen in international markets coal prices suddenly correcting by 8%-10%. I am not aware of the grades. So how are the current coal prices, port prices, trending, and what kind of further advantage can we expect in terms of the coal prices and then also the trend for the metallurgical coke, if you could give some color on the same. Binay, regarding coal, would you answer that? Yes, the coal price as of now it is in decreasing trend. Earlier we used to buy spot auction at INR 6,000, INR 6,200 in FY 2023, but now it has come down to INR 4,000. It is slowly, gradually coming down. If it remains like this, then our variable cost will remain also in the same line. Okay, sir. For the coke part, sir, coke we are importing, metallurgical coke. As I told, considering the Colombian coke particularly, which we use, it will be in the range of $350-$360 over a period of next six months usage of our, for our usage. Thereafter, nobody can say how it will turn out, coking coal and coke scenario and other things. For the moment, first you may consider for next six months it will be in that range, $350-$360 per ton of coke. Lastly, sir, on the compensation part, the INR 390 crore is what the figure that has been crystallized from the authority that will be due to the company? Yeah. And, sir, there is again, the other party has gone to the arbitration to seek what relief, sir? What are they contemplating or contesting now? Initially they went to coal tribunal for a stay of order, final order, which was turned down by the tribunal and now they are into the tribunal for reduction in the compensation amount. Okay. Sir. We are also into tribunal for whatever reduction the NA has done, INR 64 crore reduction. We have also filed a case in tribunal for restating that amount because there is no logic for reduction of amounts. Okay, so there has been a 64 crore. No, no, I am just seeking the clarification only, ma'am. No further question. There has been a reduction of 64 crore on the sums finalized by the nominated authority. That is 390 minus 64. That is what they are seeking to say. 352 they have done. So- Come again, sir. The provisional order was INR 416 crore. Okay. The order was INR 352 crore. So the INR 64 crore reduction, whatever they have done, we have challenged that also in coal tribunal. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in this conference, we request you to limit your questions to two participants only. The next question is from the line of Kaushal Khairia from Wolfit. Please go ahead. Demand is not an issue. I think when we issue even after prevailing rates. So if you want to model in our financial models for, say, three years down the line, is it safe to assume that given the prevailing realizations, EBITDA will go up by more than 33% going forward after expansion? No, no. See, in our industry it's very difficult to predict anything. Talk more on the volume sales. After we've done the CapEx, demand is not going to be an issue. Yes. Yes. That's true. Because I think, and as a policy you're saying, we don't want to sell ferrochrome in the domestic market. Chrome ore, I said, not ferrochrome. Okay. Because I think the way the stainless steel demand is increasing, I think we will have a big market in India for ferrochrome. Yeah, of course, if the market goes up in India. Yeah. I think Deepak Mohanty also said the same thing, that if market goes up in India, we will sell in the Indian market. Why it will export then? I think the realization Price point in time or at the moment for which the prices have gone up, but that is not a sustainable thing. Nobody in this world, any country, they deal with their own prices, more or less aligned to the world price. Okay. More or less in line. We are confident of finishing the CapEx in September 2025? Yeah, as of now we are trying to do that, but if the possession gets delayed, then it might get delayed a little bit more. By about how many months, say 2, 4 months? Difficult to predict at the moment. It depends on when we get the possession of land. Yes. Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you very much, sir. All the best. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Omkara Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. My first question is your realization part. You say in Q4 realization will come down. But if we see overall picture for CY 2024, you mentioned the stainless steel business will grow nearby 3.6% on international level. Will we see any more realization grow same like 3.6% or more than 3.6% in CY 2024? No, actually 3.6% growth is also quite a bit, considering lot of issues at the moment going on. The Ukraine war has not stopped. If it stops, it will not be 3.6%, it will be exponentially going up. Okay. The Red Sea issue is also decreasing the trade and everything. A lot of stability needs to come in the world. Then only you can think of any higher. That 3.3% growth is a very good growth if it is really achieved. How much growth you are looking for, sir, you are seeing for the Indian domestic stainless steel business? If you say CY 2024 and 2025. No prediction so far by anybody, because as you know, the capital consumption is still below 2.5. Any minor change can lead to a very great requirement level. Nobody can say, but things are setting, so hopefully it will go up, and then we will be catering to domestic also. Okay, sir. Sir, any comment on the China economy and from your point of view on China, sir? Chinese economy, you must have heard, they are facing certain crisis real estate side, and Evergrande has been directed for liquidation. That is a good news and bad news also because that will ultimately make the things stable, which was unstable because they were trying to manage. Particularly as I have told you in the previous consult also, Chinese stainless steel producers are behaving good. They do not want to bring down stainless steel production, not the ferrochrome production, but they are working on low margin. That is why again, now, the ferrochrome production, if you look at, they are producing 650,000 per month. They are producing at least 3 million tons of stainless steel every month. Which is a good thing. They are managing and keeping the things in tandem. I hope things will get better. Also government is having certain concern because their population has come down by 0.15% to 0.08 million in 2023. If the population goes down continuously over the years going ahead, their workforce will be going down. It is a concern they are working on. Okay. Otherwise, things are more or less stable. Right, sir. Last question, sir. For last question, just on the same on realization, just you say is just up till Q4, can we see Q4 is a bottom out for realization, sir? Or we see near term more downside of realization for ferrochrome? I think it will not go further down because of the cost, Richard. Okay. Only because of currency devaluation and all, they are able to work it out, but further going below will not be sustainable. As I told, both ferrochrome and stainless steel people are operating at a very low margin. Okay. Which if things will tackle. Right, sir. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Nihar Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. I am fairly new to the company, so I have two, three questions. Firstly, what is the opportunities we are exploring going ahead with the company? Nihar, your voice is not clear. You are not clear. Hello. Am I audible now? Yeah, a little better. Yeah, I was saying that I'm fairly new to the company, so can you help me understand the opportunities we are exploring going ahead? I didn't get your question, Nihar. Can you repeat it again? Yeah. Sorry. Now is it better? Yeah. I am saying that can we understand the opportunities we are looking- Sorry to interrupt, Nihar Shah, your audio is breaking up. Sir, may we request that you return to the question queue? Yeah. Because we are unable to hear you clearly. No. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Vinay Nadkarni from Hathway Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah, just wanted to check out, can you just give us some light on what is the cost of material as a percentage of sale and what would be the power cost as a percentage of sale? I believe these are the two key costs for you. Mm-hmm. We need to work out the percentage, Binay. It's not- Actually, power we are not selling. We are using as a captive. No, he is asking about the power cost as a percentage of sale. Yes. For the ferrochrome production. That we need to work out. Okay. We will tell you that separately. Okay. Thanks. Right. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Joe Shah from Seven Seas. Please go ahead. Deepak, I have one question for you regarding the impact. If the Chinese reserve requirement ratio has been reduced by 50 basis points, which is significant, will it have any impact on the ferrochrome demand in China? I couldn't hear. Somehow got a break in between. Can you repeat? Yeah. Now, Chinese reserve requirement ratio has been reduced by 50 basis points. Okay. To help struggling Chinese economy. Will it help in better ferrochrome demand from China? You see, ferrochrome demand, as you know, it is already there, and they are also 50% dependent on export. Right. Their internal consumption plus around 50% also they require the export market. Which is not in very good shape in Europe and U.S. and other places. It's not very good. That's why they are keeping it tandem by producing, maintaining the level of stainless steel as well as ferrochrome, balancing the price. Right. Minimum things so that they need not have to cut down. They are also bringing up ferrochrome where it is cheaper, like northern part, Inner Mongolia and all, and closing down the high-cost producers. Right. With that kind of balancing, they are managing. Hopefully it will continue. Okay. Deepak, one more thing. Today, MD mentioned in CNBC interview that average price for the Q3 was INR 109,000 for the prime ferrochrome. Here we are saying that INR 123,000. So why difference is there? No, where you are seeing INR 123,000? No, here we are discussing. MD said that it was prime ferrochrome, Q3. You know, total production cost of average production is INR 102,000, what Mr. Prem Khandelwal was informed. Yeah. Which we normally look at for the costing. There are certain grades and other things which goes at high and certain grades which goes at lower. Overall, it is 102. Overall realization is 102 average. which was 93,000 in the current quarter. Good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead. Prem sir, I also missed this point. What is the significance of this INR 123,000 per ton number which you mentioned? Where are you getting that number, Saket? INR 123,000. Then, sorry. Okay, sir. Then please, I stand corrected. What was our realization for Q3, sir? INR 103,000 I said. Okay. For whatever Q3 FY 2024, it is INR 103,000 compared to INR 93,000 in Q3 FY 2023. Okay. Q2 was 1.01 lakh. 1.01 lakh. From 1.01 lakh it is 1.03 lakh. Yes. That is what the number is. This is what we are anticipating for currently prevailing market conditions also. No. Before it will come down a little bit, from INR 103,000. Okay. Sir, on the compensation part, sir, in the December notification, we have mentioned that the freehold and the leasehold pertaining to Utkal C Coal Mines at INR 353 crores, approximate number. Out of that- INR 352 crores. Yes, INR 352 crores. Out of that, JSPL paid around INR 131 crore and INR 221 was pending. Post that, sir, what should we learn from this 390 number mentioned, and also the 416 number mentioned by you during the call? Do not get confused, Saket. 416 was the provisional order, which we had declared through the stock exchanges also. Correct. That is only related to land. I see. That has been reduced to INR 352 crore by NA. We have already got INR 20 crore on the statutory portion. So INR 352 plus INR 20, we are adding INR 372. And another INR 18 crore we should get on mining infra, which is not yet finalized. Okay. So all put together, we are saying that maximum we can get INR 390 crore as of now. Okay. We have challenged the INR 64 crore of reduction also in coal tribunal. If we get that, then it will again go back to INR 433 crore. INR 390 crore plus INR 64 crore. Okay. Now it is clear. So there is a lot of buffer there also for the INR 64 crore part also. Sir, what are we contesting for this INR 64 crore mining? Why has there been a litigation pertaining to this issue? They have disallowed certain amounts there, which as per act, it is not disallowable. Okay. We have contested that. How can you disallow when the act says nothing about this? Like registration charges, last period of lease. As per act, those things are not disallowable. But NA has disallowed those amounts, so we are contesting that. Right. Prem sir, what is the cash on books, sir, as on December 31? Just a moment. Let me see. It is around INR 398 crore. INR 398 crore. Yes. This is the net cash number post the working capital requirement? No. This is the gross number, and working capital is INR 245. So we have to reduce, okay, INR 245 from this INR 398 number. Yes. To get the net cash. Yes. Okay. Right, sir. Thank you, sir, and all the best, sir, to the team. Thank you. Thank you. Namaskar sir. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Nihar Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello sir, am I audible now? Yes, we are. Yes, sir. Yeah. I was just asking that I am fairly new to the company, so can you help me understand the working capital cycle and what are the working capital days? Normally, the working capital is 25% and the cycle, as it is calculating, is very difficult because coke we stock for 6 months. We import one shipment altogether. That way it is very difficult to calculate. But on average, we take it 25%. Okay. Understood. Can you help me understand the opportunity we are exploring going ahead with the company? Opportunity, I did not get you. What kind of opportunity? We are already expanding our ferrochrome capacity. We are already expanding our mining capacity. Apart from that, we are also working on some renewable power project. These are the things at the moment we are exploring. Okay, sir. As you said, we can only predict one quarter ahead. What are we predicting- Right. Looking at that, what are we predicting our revenues to be in our last quarter 4? Deepak, do you have that number or difficult to predict at the moment? For projection, basically turnover? Turnover for the fourth quarter. Maybe around 1 minute and I'll have something of this. 600 or close. 600. That we'll come to know after the end of the quarter. Yeah. Because we are going to sell on the spot basis also. Difficult to give that number now. I think we will have to wait for the end of the quarter. Okay. I just wanted to ask that, are margin sustainable at this level? Yeah, we are hopeful of maintaining 23%-24% margin. Okay, sir. Right. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Josh from Seven Seas. Please go ahead. Prem, I understand that export ferrochrome price in India is now about INR 120,000. When in February there is your Spring Festival holiday in China, can we sell in India in the spot market to have a bit better realization? Deepak? Yeah, actually, the thing you are telling is practically not moving and all steel mills are opposing and not buying at that level. It is being the offer. Okay. They are not buying at that level. We supply a certain quantity and those will be in line with the current market scenario. Anyway, it is not INR 120,000, maybe INR 118,000, INR 119,000, INR 117,000, in that range, where really deals are taking place. Okay. Very good. Prem, one question for you. We have approached this tribunal for this reduction in this Utkal compensation by INR 64. JSPL, they are approaching tribunal. The tribunal has not given them any stay order. Can they go to court again after tribunal, they can go to court and to delay the compensation payment? For stay? Yeah, stay. Tribunal has not given them the stay, so they are supposed to make the payment. They will go to court for what? For staying the order? Yes. For objecting the order. I don't know. They can go to court also, but till now they have not gone to court. Okay, good. Yeah. Good. Our approaching this tribunal for the INR 64 crore of difference, that will not delay the whole payment of the whole this INR 222 crore balance. That should not get delayed because both the things are separate. Right. So we expect this INR 221 crore of payment in about 3 months time? No, difficult to give any timelines there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshada Deo from Vivo Commercial Limited. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. I just wanted to understand a little bit of the backstory of how you were able to 10X the profit so far. I am new to the company. Was it just because of the materials cost that you have experienced a reduction in the same and you were able to translate that into realizations, or was there something else? Two factors I said, madam. One is that price realization has gone up by INR 10,000 a ton, and cost has come down by INR 8,000 a ton. There is a saving of INR 18,000 per ton, and if you multiply that by 65,000, normally what we sell in the market, that will give you the number. Okay, sir. It was basically market dynamics is what gave you the- Yes. Okay. The coal tribunal that is going on, do you have a timeline on when you are expecting the said cash of roughly INR 390 crores? Statutorily, they have to dispose of case within 90 days time. Sorry, sir. What time? Statutorily, they are supposed to dispose of the case within 90 days time. Okay. Right. Okay. Thank you so much. Right. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vinay Nadkarni from Hathway Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead. I just wanted to check out what is the capacity utilization for this year so far. Deepak? Basically, we are in line with our budgeting, and as we have always given that production and sales, both will be in the range between 250,000 to 255,000. We are planning to do better than that. That would be what percentage of your total capacity? I am sorry, I do not have the figures in front of me. 284,000 is the capacity, but we produce in the range of 250,000 to 255,000. Fine. I get that. Although that is the fullest capacity, you have the maintenance, you have a lot of other things to go in between. Taking those normal things out. You are kind of peaked out on your capacity. Yes. Yeah. We are utilizing almost 100%. Even maybe last quarter, it was 104%. From this period till September 2025, when your new capacities will be generated, you will be more or less at the same utilization levels, and therefore. Absolutely. 250,000 to 260,000 levels. Barring we are thinking of many other things that Mr. Prem Khandelwal informed. If you can arrange some other avenues for utilization of chrome ore, then it will be more. And with the As of now, I hold it safe to assume between 250,000 to 260,000 only. Yeah. And with the downward realization prices expected to be lasting in 2025, I mean, 2024, 2025, do you see your growth being more or less stagnant next year till the time your new capacities get developed? The price we said, the price is likely to be more or less the same like this year, next year also. Yeah, and capacity too, I mean the output also. Yes. It will be more or less stagnant as the current year. Yeah. Okay. One last question was on material cost. Your material cost seems to be pretty 54%, 55% of your total cost. Is that a norm in your industry, in ferroalloys? Because others I have seen is pretty high. No, because we have our own captive mining, our cost is very less. Okay. Captive mining and captive power, these are the two main costs and both of them you have maxed out. Yeah, these two are giving us a lot of savings in the cost front. Okay. Thanks a lot, sir. I would await your mail on the earlier question that I had on power cost and material cost. Okay. Right. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Next one. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Joe Shaw from Seven Seas. Please go ahead. Binay Agarwal, one question for you. Now, about the hybrid renewable power tie-up, can you explain it? Because I remember two, three quarters ago, there was some information that IMFA will have to invest INR 100 crores in this company, which is going to supply us a renewable power. So can you explain more on this? Our discussions are on with two, three developers. Okay. Those who will be giving us renewable energy. Right. That will be on RTC basis, around the clock, and it will be in the hybrid mode, solar and wind, so that during daytime we can get solar and during nighttime also we can get wind. In that way, in that collaboration, we are trying to develop in that sense. Will we have to invest money with this? Yeah, investment amount would be around INR 100 crores. INR 100 crores, right. Okay, very good. Plus side by side, we will be using our captive percent, about 50%. Sorry, your voice broke. Apart from the solar and wind, the renewable energy, we will be utilizing our captive coal also, our captive power generation also. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the conference. Sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhishek Sawan for his closing comments. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, your presence on this conference call today has been greatly appreciated. We would like to thank you for this opportunity to explore IMFA's future growth strategies and discuss how we plan to navigate through these challenging times. Our optimism for the growth journey ahead, not only within India but also in other regions, remains steadfast. On behalf of the company's esteemed board of directors and dedicated management team, I extend our heartfelt gratitude to every one of you for your active participation in today's call. Your interest and insightful questions have been a valuable contribution to our discourse. Should you have any future inquiries or require additional information, please do not hesitate to reach us on rm.rana@veritasreputation.com. We remain at your service to address any queries you may have in the future. Once again, thank you for being a part of this conference call. We eagerly anticipate a promising future and continued growth together. Wishing you all a fruitful and fulfilling time ahead. Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Indian Metals and Ferro Alloys Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Thank you.