Vishek.
Yes sir.
Please start.
Okay.
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and a warm welcome to Zen Technologies Limited Q2FY25 earnings conference call. Please note all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after management's opening remarks. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand over the conference to Mr. Abhishek Mehra, TIL Advisors Private Limited. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Arnav. Welcome everyone and thank you for joining this Q2FY25 earnings conference call of Zen Technologies Limited. The results and investor updates have been emailed to you and are also available on the stock exchanges. In case anyone does not have a copy of the same, please do write to us and we'll be happy to send it over to you today. We'll start the call with a brief overview of the performance which would then be followed by the Q and A session.
As a disclaimer, I would like to remind you all that everything said in this call reflecting any outlook for the future which can be construed as a forward-looking statement must be viewed in conjunction with the risks and uncertainty that the company faces. These risks and uncertainties are included but not limited to what we've mentioned in our annual reports.
With that said, I'll now hand over the call to Tina Virmani from Motilal Oswal. Over to you, Tina. Thanks, Abhishek. We welcome the management team of Zen Technologies for Q2 results. Q2 FY25 results call. We have with us Mr. Ashok Atluri, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Afzal Malkani, CFO, and Ms. Shilpa. So over to you, sir, for your opening remarks, and after that we will open the floor for question and answer.
Good afternoon everybody. Fellow shareholders, great to connect with you on this earnings call. I will not talk much about the earnings I have tried to describe because all the presentation is shared with you and any Q&A with regard to that, you know, any questions you have, please ask me and we'll try to answer them to your satisfaction.
Besides the earnings, you know, we continue to our efforts to maintain our leadership position in training and simulation and we continue to invest to develop more products and improve existing products. The demand for these products continues to grow and there is a very large market for this segment. And especially as we have told that, you know, because of the Ukraine, Russia war which hopefully will end now, people have discovered that it is training which is more important. It's the.
It's the man, not the machine that matters in a war. So we are trying to, you know, protect that leadership position. You know, as Peter Lynch famously said, don't pull the flowers and water the weeds. So we are trying to preserve what we have and continue to maintain that leadership and ensure that this leadership continues.
As we look into the future, we are also looking these capabilities to get into Navy and Air Force. And in these two segments we want to get in both organically and through acquisitions. And so this is the two areas that we are looking to expand into in terms of market. You know, again we have seen some gross margin drop and this is, we feel that's mainly due to the evolving nature of the new products that are coming.
I know there's a lot of, as we speak, you know, threats are evolving. So we're requiring the customer is asking changes and we are accommodating those changes and very, very important for us to take the short-term hit because we need to ensure that the product is absolutely world class at this point in time. And we cannot have any compromise in this.
We see that even if you look and we've been spending a lot of money on the R&D for the customer deliveries and we see that the product that we first gave in 2021, we exhibited in 2021 versus the product now is actually two generations ahead. And we, you know, the recent market survey tells that you know, we are absolutely one of the top anti-drone systems currently.
And you know, again, both these margins are impacted both by the geography and the product mix and both have contributed to that. But again because of the operating leverage, what our earlier promise has been that we will have 35% of EBITDA and 25% of PAT. We strive to maintain those margins. Again, when we look at the anti-drone systems, our acquisition with AI Turing is playing out very well.
And AI Turing, the remote control weapon station is really becoming a very sought-after equipment in various armies. And they have what we have estimated is both the AI Turing, the anti-drone remote control weapon station and the surveillance systems have a market of about $1 billion in India and outside India it's much, much larger market.
And so we are very, very extremely excited about the products in the coming future pertaining to, you know, again, well, I want to go to exports very quickly. What we see is that the current focus markets have been basically, you know, Middle East, Africa, and CIS countries. We have had a presence in the U.S. but not a very active presence in the sense that we are not really done any sales from there, even though we were very hopeful of the sales.
But now we see that, you know, the dramatic changes happening there and we are planning to double down on our U.S. investment and we especially for the North American and South American markets and we think, you know, these new, you know, countries like Argentina, large countries like Argentina, even smaller countries like El Salvador are very, very actively looking at solutions which are very, very modern.
And we are looking to penetrate into those markets. And as you know, you know, Trump win. Mr. Donald Trump's win is good news for Zen because now we think that the make in America will become a big thing there. And you know, we, and as usual, Mr. Trump actually pushes for sales of his own country's products. So again, coming back to, you know, the fact that we have raised, we raised through a QIP INR 1,000 crores.
It was subscribed five more than five times. We part of the proceeds we intend to deploy for acquisitions. We have in view both Indian and overseas targets. A typical size we are looking at is between 100-300 crores. Again, you know, typical size will not restrict us for going after larger acquisition. If they make strategic sense for us and if they make strategic sense, we'll go after the larger acquisitions also.
By the way, we are very conscious about the failure rate of such acquisitions. You know, they are as you know, HBR pointed out, Harvard Business Review pointed out as high as 90%. Every acquirer thinks that they are, they're an exception and their acquisition will go. But in my defense, I can say only one thing, that I'm not an MBA and I'm not an MBA from Harvard.
So that should de-risk us to a large extent. I'll not be bound. I'll be unfettered by any case studies. We are looking at, so we'll be looking at actual value of these businesses for Zen. And we will always keep in mind that the hard-earned money for the shareholder is what we are betting. We should always remember.
I should always keep in mind that, you know, if I do a bad decision, if we do a bad decision, it is the promoters who suffer the most because we have very, very, almost all our net worth is in these shares. And if we make a bad decision, we are the biggest sufferers in this. That should kind of assure you that we will not do any misadventure with the money that we have.
Again, coming to the order book position, you know, our order book position. You know the orders stand executed, but the order inflow has been slow. But I have been telling from the beginning, from the beginning of the year that the order inflow will start towards the end of the third quarter and end of third quarter. And you know the major orders will come in the fourth quarter.
Even though the order pipeline is almost INR 3,500 crores, we expect about INR 1,200 crores to come in by the end of this financial year which we'll be able to execute in the next year. So with this brief introduction, you know, I'll open the floor for question and answer sessions and I look forward to answering them to your satisfaction.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may click on the raise hand icon at the bottom of your screen. We request participants to restrict their question to two and then return to the queue for more questions. To rejoin the queue, you may click the raise hand icon again. Now we will take our first question from Mr. Akshay CD Integrated Services Limited, so please unmute your mic and proceed with your question.
Hello sir. Am I audible, sir?
Yes, you are audible.
Yes. So congratulations on the very good set of numbers, sir. Sir, I mainly have two questions. The first question is we have been guiding for 900 crore revenue in FY25 and we have already done around 500 crore in the first half. So even if we do the same amount of revenue in half two then we will cross easily to 1,000 crores. So any change in the FY25 revenue guidance and the follow up question on that would be what is our FY26? Can you give some color on how our performance will be in FY26 or FY25? That is my first question, sir.
Yeah, so, the first question was, "Then you, we have already done INR 500 crores, you know, shouldn't we do at least as much in the second half and across INR 1,000 crores?" You know, again, you know, last year when we projected INR 450 crores, we fell short before INR 20 crores and we achieved only INR 430 crores.
This time we have been cautious and we have set a target of INR 900 crores, and we hope to cross INR 900 crores. But, you know, by how much? Let us wait and see. But again, it is not that the execution, more execution will happen in the fourth second half. It's not like that. These are all orders that we have, and typically what we do is in Zen, we try to execute orders as fast as possible.
We don't try to smoothen the curve or anything like that because money today is much more worth than money tomorrow, so the execution will happen as soon as we can, and with respect to the FY26 projection we have said that we'll have an average CAGR of 50% over the next three years, and we are confident given the you know, huge order pipeline that we have that we'll be able to achieve the 50% average CAGR over the next three years based on the 25 figure.
Okay, sir. Sir, my second question is about the order book. We didn't get any order in Q2, and so how should we look at our order book in FY25 and then in FY26? Can you provide the split between our expected anti-drone system and our simulation system order book split in future? Also, can you please give some color on the EBITDA margin front as to split between anti-drone system and simulation system?
Yes. So as I indicated just now that we are expecting the order towards the end of the third quarter and in the fourth quarter the orders will start coming in and we are expecting about INR 1,200 crores worth of orders to come in. And with you know with the existing almost INR 300 crores of pending orders we should be able to achieve the target that we are aiming at.
And with regard to EBITDA margin I would say that you know on a consolidated basis we have about 35%. And you had also asked for the order book split between simulators and the future order book position. So you know we are, we will not be able to exactly predict that at this point in time. But again, you know, we are. We expect 40, 60 split to be there between last year. It was there. I think maybe we probably that will continue in this year also.
Okay, sir. Okay, thank you for the answers, and last one short question is what is your long-term view like how we should see Zen Technologies in the coming five to 10 years. Can you give some color on the long-term views and what type of products and solutions we are providing to the military systems?
You know, long-term view is, you know, we basically want to get into various other simulation segment training and simulation like Navy and Air Force and become a leading player as we are in the Army. And second is globally. We want to become a one-stop solution for all drone threats. Anti-drone, all-in-one drone solutions. Everybody should prefer coming to Zen. So these two are the, you know, the thing, the target that we have for the next five years. And I think, and if opportunistically we will probably diversify and go into something else. But this is the main target that we have. Thank you.
Okay, sir, thank you so much and all the best for the future, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Our next speaker is Mr. Dipen Vakil from PhillipCapital. So please unmute your mic and ask your question.
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a great execution. So my first question is in your opening remarks you mentioned that right now you're not present in the U.S. market but not very active and you're looking for growth coming in or rather you're planning on expanding in that geography. So can you expand a little bit more as to what areas you are seeing opportunities in America and are you planning to set up a manufacturing facility over there or just plain exports from yours to us?
No. Yeah. So, you know, I think the U.S. market now what we think is that there's going to be a lot of changes in the U.S. market. There's a lot of bureaucracy will be removed as they say, you know, as Elon Musk there is invented new world quality whenever do a huge layoff. We call it Twitter. So you, Elon Musk is expected to Twitter the, you know, the bureaucracy in U.S. and this we think that will help not only the established players, the big primes, but also new companies to make a big entry into the thing. So we and with this of course the manufacturing for the product that we are supplying to us has to be in the U.S. So this will involve setting up of manufacturing facility also.
At least, therefore, to qualify as a Make in America, that it has to be 51% and we want to be true to the spirit and do the 51% manufacturing there. We think that the products that we have are absolutely world class. They are the best in the world. We believe in that training simulators and anti-drone systems. This is a great opportunity to, you know, go and offer our solutions to America and, you know, through America to the other rest of the countries in North and South America.
Got it, sir. So and another question, so you mentioned that your order pipeline right now is INR 3,500 crores and of which you expect INR 1,200 crores of orders in this year. So possible to give some more details as to which areas are these orders expected from and what kind of long term orders are there in the pipeline also.
So you know, I really don't want to because there are certain orders which are single vendors or certain orders which are, you know, we are competing in and I really don't want to disclose it because it will not be in the interest of the company to do that.
But yes, the order size, you know we expect the order pipeline to explode as we speak from 3,500 multiple times of that and we think that again this is a combination of simulators and anti-drone systems but it will be heavily biased towards simulators at this point in time. But yeah, but this is the overall picture. But I really don't want to give the finer split between the. In terms of products where, which products we are going to get.
Got it, sir. So, right now we are just catering largely to the requirements of Army and now we are planning to expand towards Navy and Air Force. So, is that the right understanding?
Yes, absolutely, yeah. So in, in terms of training and simulators. Yes, we would want to do that.
Yeah, got it. Any major R&D which has happened in this quarter, apart from what you mentioned in last quarter?
So you know we keep doing the R&D and you know what we typically do is only when the product is realized and the customer kind of sees and says listen, this has market, we want to buy it. Do we tell us, you know we have a, in fact if you look at our track record, you know we have a lot of failed products that we had done R&D but then we have not taken it to the market. So it's premature to talk about R&D products as such. But one thing I can tell you is the, you know these are all asymmetric bets in the sense that you know, we invest a very little money. If it fails, we don't feel the pain but if it succeeds it's give you enormous revenues.
So yes, we are doing a lot of basically we are an IP company, R&D based company. So we are doing a lot of products at this point in time and we think some of them are really, really path-breaking. But again till we actually develop it fully and unveil it to the customers confidentially and then they say yes, this is the product we will not be able to share the detail with.
You got it, sir. So just last small question. Which is the area where you're seeing the growth potential exploding between say training simulation ads and some of your new AI-enabled products that you are catering to or you right now you're developing? So which is the area where you think is the most growth potential right now?
So you know, in terms of short-term pain, everybody is feeling the pain of the drone attacks. The drones are becoming very, very severe problem, and countering drones with the AI-enabled remote-controlled weapon stations and surveillance systems is the complete solution that they are looking. I think these are going to have a very, very big market in the immediate term.
I think those will be the larger orders. But again, you know, people who are really long-term oriented building capabilities so that they can sustain any war over a long period of time would require training and simulation as the go-to solution. So I think there will be a mix. Both the things are required for right-thinking armed forces, and depending on the urgency they think there is a war coming. I think they would probably invest in anti-drone systems. Otherwise, training and simulation is a very, very large market. Again, it's a very, very large market.
Got it, sir. So thank you so much for your time and all the best for second half.
Thank you Dean, thank you so much. Thank you.
Our next speaker is Mr. Rajamohan. So please unmute your mic and ask your question.
Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations sir on another great quarter on the US front. You have been indicating in this call, in the course of this call that maintaining the principle of this 51% manufacturing is something you're going to be very particular about in respect to their rules. You also indicated previously our products are cutting edge worldwide. So does that make it easy for our manufacturing entry in a big way under the new administration of Mr. Trump?
Yeah, see you know what we are betting is that the new administration would be buying the best products and they will not be worried about whether it is, you know, the big prime or they don't care. You know, see if this merit based acquisition starts happening, I think we stand a very good chance.
You know, in fact, in an exhibition last year when we were in ITSEC in Orlando. That's a world
I'm unable to hear you.
Oh, I'm sorry, is everybody else able to hear me?
Yes, yes, yes, we can hear you sir.
Sorry, Rajamohan, I think there is something wrong with your connection. Sorry, I think there is some technical issue at my end, I suppose if I can.
So we request you to reconnect and please rejoin the queue. Till that time we'll take the next speaker. Our next speaker is Mr. Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. So please unmute your mic and ask your question. Yes.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. The first one is that there are two, or rather four very interesting products we introduced. Two among them are Prahasta and Barbarik. And we have been hearing a lot about them. So just wanted to understand whether they are being sent for testing and if you know anything further on that front has been done to commercialize these two products.
So you know Prahasta is undergoing more R&D at this point in time to meet the requirements and there's a lot of excitement around it. And with respect to Barbarik, the army has seen it, they have tested it and they have found it to be very useful and there is some. We expect requirements to come up in the next few months and we'll be waiting for that.
And again Barbarik requirement will be very huge and we have estimated the complete. I mean to say not only Barbarik but other remote control weapons stations all put together and you know surveillance system put together almost $1 billion, more than 8,000 crores. So I think the exciting time for these products surveillance and the remote control products or weapons stations
and what. Would be the time to market for Barbarik?
Do we expect orders to come in the next year?
Next year. Okay, the second question is around your opening remarks again on Navy and Air Force, which was but expected since you are strong in army now and Navy and Air Force. We are seeing many new platforms coming. So is it possible to explain a bit further what kind of platforms you are looking at? Are you looking at specifically at new submarines that are coming up? Are you looking at, let us say, in case of Tejas, the new avionics system that has come out. If you can explain a little bit more in detail what kind of training and simulation systems we are looking at.
So, you know, largely it will be, you know, ship-based and aircraft-based simulators that we'll be looking at because we are very good at weapon platforms. So, and you know, the ship along with the weapon stations will be what will be required because we already have the weapons station capability. We just require the ship, and we have the motion platform for them for both the aircraft and the Navy. So we expect that. So, the generic statement I'm trying, but I don't really want to get into which, you know, Tejas or anything like that. But it will be largely, you know, these simulators that we will be getting in.
Any market size you can give on this?
Yeah, I think they would be, you know, these are going to be large and, again, you know, I think we would be expecting at least $2 billion worth of business in the next few years in this.
There will be export opportunities also.
Like your large export opportunities in this. In these segments. Yes, they're going to be very big. Yeah.
Okay, great sir, thank you so much and all the best.
Yeah.
Thank you. Our next speaker is Mr. CA Amit Kumar, investor. So please unmute your mic.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir, and. Congrats for good set of numbers. INR 3,500 crores, a big pipeline or we are expecting in few months. So could you please give some bifurcation of the INR 3,500 crores?
I mean it's an order pipeline so it includes a mix of simulators, training systems and anti-drone systems.
No, sorry. Is it submitted or we are expecting to submit?
No, no. So, out of this around, you know, I would say about INR 2,000 crores are submitted. Another INR 15 crores have to be submitted.
Okay. Okay. And if you could provide some bifurcation, how much is anti-drone? How much is for simulators?
I'll avoid that. Yeah, I like this.
Okay. That's the only question.
Thank you sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Mr. Ashish Soni from family office. So please unmute your mic and ask your question.
Yeah. So sir, regarding U.S. Manufacturing, how long it will take because you said make in America. So if at all you have to set up their favorable policy from Trump administration. So how long it will take for us to set up because we do assembling in India typically and we have supply chain for 85% of our work. Right. So what was the timeline thought process at this?
We are identifying the, you know, the supply chain there as we speak at this point in time. And we think that around we would take about eight months or so to, you know, identify and set for any production that orders that we get. Again, we expect the orders to come not in the next financial year. They may just start in the next financial year, but probably FY27 is what we expect large orders to come there.
Will it cater only to U.S. market? Or it will, like, Argentina also will be catering from us both the whole of Americas, the North and South America.
Yeah. From Make in America theme you're saying.
You know, even from there it's also easy to tackle the other NATO countries like you Europe among European countries, so it will become a hub for these NATO countries and North and South America.
Regarding this Navy and Air Force order, any timeline you're looking when, which financial year they can start?
Yeah, so. You know we are looking at acquisitions in this regard and you know we are trying. We are looking at the organic opportunities also and we think orders may be coming in the next year. Definitely by next year we'll start getting orders in this regard.
Okay, so thank you.
All the best.
Thank you, sir. Next speaker is Mr. Rudresh Kalyani. Please proceed with your question.
Good evening, sir. So, see, in India we are following. We are outsourcing everything and we do just the IP. So, and when it comes to America, we are deviating from that strategy. So, what is it? Is it just a policy direction which is forcing you to deviate that strategy or what is that?
Yeah, so thanks for the question. You know, what Rudresh is asking is in India as a, you know, as a scaling up strategy, what we have done is we have outsourced almost 85% of our manufacturing to the supply chain that we have. And we do the final integration and testing and you know, final assembly, software integration and dispatch and post services.
We do. Are we going to have a different strategy in the U.S.? No, Rudresh, we are going to have the same strategy. What we are doing is we are identifying supply chain with the same capabilities in the U.S. and they are available. By the way, there are a lot of SMEs, very, very competent SMEs in the U.S. too. And with the focus by the new president on complete domestic manufacturing, I think it's only going to be ramped up those capabilities.
So we will do the same principle. We will try to get it manufactured with the existing supply chain there and then we can, then we'll integrate. It's going to be the same. There is no difference in strategy there. And here we will not be able to set up the system and start manufacturing next year itself. So we have to identify, test them out and be ready for the orders that we get and execute them.
Okay. And when it comes to the acquisition of the startup which you talked about, so most of the startups which works in this domain will be burning cash. So are you open to those kinds of startups and have EPS dilution to your concentrated balance sheet or how do you look at the question?
You know, so what we have seen, Rudresh, you know, whenever we look at the company, what we look at is two things. One is extremely competent technical team and the second is they already have developed some considerable IP based on their strengths. So when we acquire the company, so we already have some products in mind, these are the products that they are going to do and this is where the market is. And you know, what we have seen is typically these startups try to do too many things.
So our job as a, you know, as an investor is to guide them and saying listen, you're doing this 20 projects but 19 of these projects don't make sense or 18 of these projects don't make sense for these reasons they don't have a market, you know, they have competition but, or something some of the reasons. But this one potent product has a huge market, huge potential and very little competition.
So why don't we focus on that? And so this is what we have done in the two acquisitions that we have done. And then what happens if they really put all their strengths? So basically it's the dispersed light versus the laser that you have completely focused on trying to cut into one market. And again we put in a lot of money. There is no doubt about that.
We don't hesitate to put in a lot of money. But for the specific purpose, we just don't go along and say okay, you keep burning the cash as you are going on 20 projects. So I think what happens is invariably there's a good product that comes out of that and you know, we are able to go and offer it to the customer.
So but, but to your question, you know, in the long, in a way what you are asking is if there is a big opportunity and you know you, there is an EPS dilution in the short term, would you be willing to do that? The answer is yes, but we haven't seen anything like that. But this is what is happening in reality that you know, they're too dispersed. We try to make them concentrate efforts and make bets on one or two things so that they can realize and you know, make become profitable very soon.
Okay, thank you. And do you foresee any headwinds?
No, I mean the, I think.
We.
We think that the world is going to be a little peaceful with the new change in the U.S. government. I think the wars will come down but that will give a very good opportunity for people to get trained because now everybody has discovered that training is the most important part. And the only way to become unbeatable is by training and becoming very strong.
And second is the drone threats are becoming very, very real. They are becoming real by the day and they can do asymmetric damage. So while the, you know, the threat of war will come down, we, which may seem like a headwind, but we think it's a tailwind because we'll be able to you know, sell more training equipment and anti-drone systems.
My final question is, are we qualified for all the projects? Or will the qualification criteria lie on the project order which we have executed as well.
You know, in the sense that whatever tenders are coming or the RFPs are coming, they typically assess the capability of the Indian companies and based on that only they issue the RFP. You know, based on that we typically get qualified in most of the projects and some very rarely if they, you know, ask for something which we don't have. In those rare cases we may not be bidding for that. But typically in the anti-drone space and the army simulator space, we are there almost in every bid.
I ask that because, in most of the EPC projects, unless you have exhibited prior crore order, they won't allow us to bid for the thousand crore order. So I was asking that aspect.
No. In this case what they typically do is they, you know, in India, what they do is one thing is they have a requirement of 5% of the net worth. The company should have 5% of the net worth of the project that is being executed. That means today we have 1,500 crores of net worth. So we can execute almost 30,000 crores worth of tenders we can bid for.
Okay. Second thing is, you know, unlike the EPC projects where the capability has to be demonstrated in the army thing, what they do is they actually ask you to show the product and demonstrate the product and show it is working fully before they place the order on you. That means a company that is participating in the bid has already invested and proven the product.
Once you prove the product, just replication after that, which is very easy, that's not very difficult. So here it is not the EPC, 50% of the EPC but actual product being tested in the trial. So if you have the product in the trial and you have this 5% net worth capability, then you are, you have to go through, you can go ahead and you win the contract. I hope I've answered your question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you did.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next speaker is Mr. Rajamohan. So can you please unmute your mic? So can you hear us now, Mr. Rajamohan?
Yes, I'm able to hear you. Am I audible?
Yes, you are audible. Sir, please proceed with your question.
Yeah, Mr. Atluri, the question was, I think you answered to a different question about the U.S. front. But here I just generally wanted to understand whether the products that we have, we have always mentioned in the past that global leaders have also looked at our products, so our products in the U.S. environment under the new administration would be welcomed to set up manufacturing capacities is what you feel, right?
Yeah. So you know our products again you know it's a good question. In the sense remind me on what we have done till now. Our simulators are typically more oriented towards what the equipment that we have. Their equipment may be different but we have the edge in the sense that the software, the underlying software that is there is the same in the sense how the tank behaves.
The physical appearance may be different but the algorithm that run the tank are the same. So we can adapt our software to their technology and yes, so if we are developing that we have such capability and we are manufacturing in the US. The US will definitely welcome us with open arms. Fine.
On product granularity, I wanted specifically on these three products. One is you talked about the hard kill in anti-drone and you already supplied one unit to the Indian Army. Have you seen more orders on that front or are you on the verge of having more orders there? Similarly on space anti-drone systems, I wanted to understand that you and. And yeah, these two products, what are the second question? Space anti-drone systems. On space you said in anti-drone you said till now we have a large land presence. So on space also you're looking at exploring the opportunities if I understand.
Actually the second was for simulators. We are focused on the Army, the land forces. Till now we are also looking at, you know, Navy and Air Force to expand into those two segments. And with respect to the first question on the Hard Kill we have been able to prove now based on our capability, you know we are expecting more orders, more tenders, you know, more requirements to come up. And since we are a proven company, we expect the orders to be placed on us. Yeah, so. So no orders have been received till now but we expect more orders to come in in the future.
Yeah, sorry, I misspoke. I wrongly phrased it as anti-drone for space. I understand now, and on sights and surveillance as the third potential revenue stream for you when you see it materially happening for you.
So next financially there are two things. One is the remote control weapon station and the other is surveillance systems. Both the things we expect next year to be the year for when we'll start getting orders in this.
Okay, one final question. In this whole backdrop of explosive order opportunities, would you have an internal estimate to share on the FY26 order inflow that you see over this 1,200 crores for this y
ear? So you know again Ranmon, what I would restrict myself to is that you know we are expecting on an average a CAGR of about 50%. So you know the order book, maybe it should be upwards of 2,000 crores if you want to achieve that. So again, you know we think that the order book in FY26 is going to be really big for orders that we are expecting. So it may be, you know, a little more than that. But I think FY25 is going to be very exciting for us in terms of order inflow.
Okay sir, thank you very much for entertaining me again and wish you the best. Thank you Rajamohan.
Thank you. Our next speaker, Mr. Sanjay. Please unmute your mic and proceed with your question.
Hi, sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity, and it is glad to. And we're glad to hear that you. are about to kind of get a lot of new orders. Some 200 crores. Just understand, try to understand one thing that what really is the order cycle for you? Like is it like one year, six months? Because you have been fairly confident about winning new all these orders for almost a year now. So you must be having this pipeline from back then. So is it that it is so very, very long to convert the pipeline to order.
Yeah, I mean to say that typically it may be, you know, if it is not emergency procurement it could be as much as 18 months or so.
18 months.
18.
Okay. Okay.
That is the reason why you are also talking about $1 billion kind of order inflow in a year.
Our time, right sir?
No, no, I mean I never said about a $1 billion ordering. I don't remember saying that. Sorry.
No, no, you said that in one or you are getting into several new areas and several new markets. And so, you and the opportunity size that you are now, you are opening up for yourself. You may at some point of time start seeing $1 billion worth of order inflow.
At some point in time we'll definitely see but you know, which point of time is, you know, something which we need to say. But again, you know we have said that we'll be going at a CAGR of 50% over the next on an average basis. And you know, we think that is something. Again, Sanjay, very frankly, you know the.
These kind of things may happen and I would not say that they will not happen but it may happen that it will be all positive black swan events for all of us, so we look forward. I hope your prediction comes true.
Okay, and so the last thing, I'm sure you might have already explained this quarterly volatility in margin. Particularly in this quarter your revenue was some so fairly high. But the. And also, exports, which I thought that has better margin. But your overall EBITDA margin was lower than first quarter. Can. Can you please repeat it for me if you don't mind?
Yeah, you know, I'll let Afzal, our CFO, respond to that. Afzal, please go ahead.
Yeah, sure sir. Sanjay, we request you not to look at the gross margin on quarterly basis, but consider for the whole year. You are correct that in H125 our gross margin is 50% which is quite lower. However, it is partly offset from the benefit of scale of operations. Despite the lower margin, we were able to maintain our operational margin of 37% in H1. Though in Q2 it is on a lower side. But in H1, this operational EBITDA is around 36.80% which is above our guidance given for 35%. PAT is also around 28% because there was a substantial reduction in labor and overhead cost in execution of these orders due to which we were able to maintain our EBITDA and profit margin.
Apart from this, as mentioned by our CMD sir, the evolving stage of our raw material cost is on a higher side due to higher allocation of R&D expenditure. After that our raw material cost will come down and within our expected range. Also there is a change as mentioned by you that there is a change in the geography mix and our export in H2 will be significantly higher and we'll get a better margin in the export business. Additionally there was a slight change in the product mix also in simulator itself in H1 due to which our gross margin was slightly affected in H1. I hope I answered your questions.
So you're saying that your gross margin profile in second half will be better?
I am saying export will be higher in that we generally give guidance key whatever may be the margin but it will be partly offset with the operating leverage and we will be able to maintain our EBITDA and PAT, that is for sure.
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next speaker is Ms. Mita. Please unmute your mic and ask your question.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, you are audible please.
I have been following your company since a very long time and congratulations on a great set of numbers. I just wanted to ask two questions. First of all, you have been talking about a war for quite some time and you feel that because of that there can be a good opportunity for our company. However, post Trump there and as U.S. was the one time king in the defense equipment market, do you feel with the competition that we have from the U.S. in this segment, do you feel you have competition in your product in U.S. and you'll be able to do good with the competitor?
Sorry, sir, you're on mute.
You are.
Yeah, we expect, you know, the competition that we have from the US. You know, we think we are the best in the world. At this point in time, we don't think American products are better than us. We know for sure because we have seen them in various exhibitions. You know, post-Trump, our thing is that, you know, we want to set up a manufacturing setup in the US, and we want to sell from America to both for America and outside America, to American allies and South America. We think that the competition will be there, but we think our products are the best in this category.
Sir, again, I wanted to ask one thing. That how much percentage wise, if you could decipher for us that how much would US be of your entire revenue going to FY 26 or 27?
You know, again, this is, you know, a difficult question to answer. You know, very frankly, America, you know, the figure that I have is America spends almost $4 billion every year in terms of training for the army itself. So that's a very large market. And you know, even if you're looking at a couple of hundred million dollars, that's going to be big for Zen. So I think that, you know, it could be, it could be as little as, you know, FY27, it could be as little as, you know, about 10%-15%, but it could go as high as 50%. So, you know, so this is, by the way, we haven't factored this into our growth plans and this will be a completely additional revenue that we will be getting.
Okay, now my last question, sir. Looking at India's order book, we have seen in many areas government has gone down with it, with its order, whether it's related to defense or is it related to, you know, railways or anything where government infrastructure is required. So do you also see that same slowdown in government order book in India?
No, we don't see any slowdown in the defense orders. You know, we expect the orders to come through, you know, but definitely there may be some delay in action. But they're definitely not any complete elimination of the orders or anything like that, but the thing is, their government is moving and they're very, very conscious about making India very, very strong and unbeatable in case of a war. So we think there is no slowdown in that sense that the order procurement will be lesser than what is projected.
Okay. On a lighter note, sir, just one simple question. As a, you know, as a citizen of India, do you see actually Third World War taking place as you were talking about war for so many years, for so many quarters.
So you know, actually, you know, had Trump not come, I would have probably worried that there was a third world war might happen. But with Trump coming, you know, he's, I, I mean he's a very strong guy and he'll really push everybody to shut up and then after that he may ask them to buy something from him. So, you know, that, that which is good news for us because they are having American setup. I, I think it's a very, very good news in the sense that, that wars will come to an end and because, you know, he's a very smart guy, looks a little, you know, a little commercial oriented but you know, very, very smart guy. And the team that he has, the dream team, you know, whether Vivek Ramaswamy, Elon Musk or my God, such a powerful brain to have with him.
J.D. Vance is, you know, Vice President. I wouldn't have said much about J.D. Vance, but he's married to a Telugu girl so that actually puts him on the top. Then, you know, then you have Tulsi Gabbard. So, you know, I think it's a fantastic team and a great president and I think it's good news all over for all of us. I look forward to, and this is going to be no third World War. You know, I hope I am not wrong but you know, I feel very confident that the world will be a much peaceful place now onwards. But you know, again the people will prepare for war. I'm very sure after this lull, the sudden wars that erupted have actually kind of shaken people's confidence that wars have ended altogether.
They will prepare for, you know, because Trump is not going to last forever. What happens after Trump goes will be something that will be bothering everybody. And so the preparation for war and for new threats will continue.
Do we see any competition from Israel, sir?
So no Israel, I don't know. Israel has never competed with us in any of the segments that we are there in India. And very frankly we are not collaborated with U.S. Israel also much they have been so. But anti-drone system they are active but you know they are because of India's extreme policy of you know, Make in India, IPO, Indian own thing they have not been able to compete with us. But again I. We are going abroad and we are trying to supply. We. We think we are even in anti-drone space. We are absolutely now reaching the top of the table.
And about your new products that you are launching, sir, for that also.
Yeah. So you know again we will, we will, we feel very confident because you know the ultralight remote control weapons station that we have launched, we are claiming it to be the world's lightest at this point in time. And that means a person can carry it. Typically a crane would be required to lift it. Now it's a man portable kind of thing. So those kind of things we haven't seen anywhere. But you know again the world. The world is full of surprises. So you know we are just looking forward if anybody will come up with anything. But again we are, we think that we are absolutely those products also will be the best in the world.
So then do we expect our cash conversion cycle to go down?
Sorry, I didn't understand the question now.
What was that cash conversion cycle? Can we expect it to go down further?
So realize the payments earlier is what you are asking?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I think that may not happen because you know either for exports or for domestic market typically it's been you know, four months or so. I think that will continue. But Afzal, would you like to add something there?
So if you see in the current, it may again go back to the last financial year, 31st March 2024 in which our working capital cycle was around 148 days. Currently it is about 200 days in H1 FY25. This is due to this increase in receivables in H1 FY25. It was on a higher side because the higher sales in H1 FY25 and actually in absolute terms also receivables are INR 411 crores. And our turnover for H1 FY25 was around INR 496 crores. But however, just we would like to inform you that out of the total debtors of INR 411 crores INR 350 crore rupees is for the below six months below 180 days. So going forward we can say that by end of this financial year it will be again down to 160 to 170 days. This significant realization will happen in the current quarter.
Thank you sir. That's all from my side. All the best for your future.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question. Next question is from Mr. Anurag Agarwal. So please go ahead with your question.
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So I had three questions. So you mentioned you were very positive about AI Turing our subsidiary. Could you highlight a bit more about the capabilities of that company?
So primarily they are doing two product ranges. One is remote control weapons station, the second is surveillance systems. These are their capabilities and these are the products that they have launched. I think we will be doing a range of products for other weapon systems. Also we will be doing the remote control weapons station. And we want to really establish as. Again the whole point is while we started it as adjunct to anti-drone systems we see these remote control weapon stations and anti-drone and surveillance systems as independent products by themselves. You know, I think it is going to be interesting.
Got it. Another question is, sir, you mentioned that out of the 3,500 crore order pipeline we are expecting about 1,200 crore to come into our company. Considering that we are one of the best producers of anti-drone systems and simulators in India or maybe in the world, don't you think the conversion ratio is very less? Like out of 3,500, only 1,200 crore. No.
So, you know, what I'm saying is that that's the order book. It's not the conversion. What we are saying is out of that INR 1,200 crores would have actually been decided. So remaining, you know, INR 2,000 plus crores would not have been decided. So we again are, we think our conversion will be much, much higher than. It will be much higher. Almost like, you know, 80% plus kind of thing.
Okay, that's good to hear. Thirdly, so when we say 50 CAGR, do we include the acquisitions that we are planning to do or do we include these new products that we are planning to, you know, launch or are in the midst of launching, so you know.
Yeah, a bit of that is factored in. A bit of the especially anti-drone systems when we integrate the, you know, the remote control weapon station or thing that is factored in but not the independent sales that may come through that and the acquisition that's not factored.
Acquisition is not factored in.
Acquisition income is not factored in.
Acquisitions involving navy or air defense, air simulators, aviation simulators are not factored in.
They are not factored.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Our next question is from Mr. Sanjay K. So please go ahead with your question.
Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are audible.
Yeah, sir, congratulations on a good set of numbers. My question is about, you mentioned that most of the orders will start flowing in Q3 and Q4. So those orders are mainly from India domestic orders or even you are talking about export orders?
A combination of both.
Okay, so right now these export orders which are like to be executed, to be executed about INR 400 crores, right? Pending for almost a year now. We got the order maybe before the start of the financial year and it's totally pending. So is it those scheduled to execute by Q3 or Q4?
Absolutely. Maybe take over this question. I think last quarter also we did. Yeah.
Last quarter also we executed around INR 64 crore and remaining export order will be out of the remaining order. 80% of the export order will be executed within this financial years only.
Okay. Okay. And my last question is about sir, though like we are you mentioned that the target for this financial is about INR 900 crore. And considering INR 500 crore is already done by H1. So are you, are you saying that we will be. I mean remaining quarters. Are we seeing that will be the revenue will be lesser than H1 or will there is a possibility that we will hit a thousand crore.
We will definitely exceed 900 crores. I mean, I'll not say that whether it will hit 1000 crores or not. But to your question, you know, we are projecting. You know if you go quarter on quarter, it is actually dangerous. Defense companies are very dangerous. So go on a yearly basis and try to say year on year growth will be the best kind of test. So don't go on quarter on quarter because quarters can be very uneven in defense business.
Business. All right. Yeah. Thank you for that and wishing you all the best.
Thank you, Sanjay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take last few questions and we will end the call in next five minutes. Our next speaker is Mr. Kush Nahar. So please unmute your mic and proceed with your question.
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question was after we have established a U.S. facility, do you think a cost structure will change significantly in terms of our employee cost affecting the EBITDA margins going ahead?
So again, you know what we try to do is, you know the model that we have had in India for the past 30 years you know, keep your fixed cost to the minimum so that you know, even in the worst cases where there are no even dry period, you are able to sustain. And that is the reason we never invested in huge manufacturing setups or you know, and huge plant and machinery or even employees required for that. And I think that is the same model that will continue there where, you know, where we'll have a supply chain that is built and that's ready to execute the orders rather than taking on the complete setting of the plant and machinery and having a number of workers to do that man, that thing. So yeah, I think we'll keep the.
We are very conscious about that, you know, because otherwise as we wouldn't have survived in the Indian environment 10 years prior to that for last 20 years, 20 years before that, it was a very, very hostile environment. So yeah, I think the cost will not go up dramatically and will not impact us significantly.
Okay sir, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Our next speaker is Mr. Van Singh, so please unmute your mic and proceed with your question.
Hi, thanks a lot for the numbers. I just had a question on the hard kill thing that we had deployed already to the army. How many more of those are they required, and will be having export potential for that as well?
Okay, so you know, very quickly basically, you know, when we look at soft kill and hard kill software, soft kill basically means that you use signals to bring down the drone and you don't try to kill, you know, shoot at it and you know, blah, you know, kill it. But in the case of hard kill you actually shoot at it. You know, they call it kinetic energy and use the kinetic energy and you know, destroy it but the danger is that if there is explosion in that it may explode and you know, it may put collateral damage. So a lot of people at the border areas or areas where they don't care, you know, where they feel there will be no collateral damage, they typically shoot it down. So this hard kill is.
Demand is really, you know, dramatically increasing as we speak and we expect that there will be lot of orders not only in India but also overseas for this hard kill. And again you know, when you talk about hard kill, so there is the anti-drone system and there is a hard kill which is interface to the anti-drone system.
So lot of people are saying listen, we are, when you are hard integrating the hard kill system, the, the hard kill weapons will be given by us which is perfect because we don't deal in any lethal system. We are completely non-lethal company. So what? So we are the company that is saying give us your weapons and we will integrate it with our anti-drone systems and we will give the platform on which you can keep your weapon system.
So this is the dream solution for most of the armies where they don't want to invest again in the weapon system, maybe laser or anything like that. They want to use the existing system. So we here have an adapter for the weapon system remote control weapon station. We have a camera that is hooked onto that and we have anti-drone system. So you know, so their cost come down dramatically and I think there is a huge, huge demand for these kind of hard-kill system where we are not pushing the weapon system and we are saying give me your weapon system and we will integrate with our anti-drone system.
Okay, just the last question on my side. Since 85% of our, you know, manufacturing is outsourced in India. So what percentage of our components are, you know, used as a precision manufacturing like on CNC machines? And how do we, you know, ensure quality control in the supply chain for choosing these vendors?
You know of course you know we have a new vendor development division that goes and actually checks these guys and they check their capabilities. And again you know we have very simple technique. You know typically worldwide what people do they send people to go and check whether the system is there or not, do the test there or the site product comes to their site to the customer, or the buyer's location and they test it there.
What we have done is we have given the testing methodology to the vendor and our guys view from the video online. So WhatsApp kind of a thing they do online checking and they say okay guys it is approved. So rejection rates are very low and the efficiency and the training of the vendors are helping us in really reintegrating it very fast.
So yes, so we have these simple, simple techniques which ensure that we get quality products and we are able to, you know, that's how we are able to monitor, and also when we, you know, as we speak, we are trying to expand our supply chain for, you know, precision fabrication, everything. And yeah, so we're looking to. So this is how we can integrate very fast.
Thanks. That's all from myself.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question is from Mr. Ashish Soni.
Yes, sir. Regarding, I think you have good plans for us, so any Capex requirement for the new plant in Make in America?
So, you know, we are, you know, as we speak, we are estimating it, you know, but it will depend on the, you know, location of the factory that we keep especially care. We have not yet identified the location even though we have an office in Orlando. Now we haven't identified the location for setting up the manufacturing.
There are many. So, you know, actually, we are waiting for these elections to get over to identify the place where we will be keeping the location. It has to be a very, very careful decision because, you know, it can make or break your company if you have set up in a wrong location. So yes, I think probably, again, the cost, you know, we have estimated it should be less than $10 million. Maybe about INR 80 crores or so. That will be the total expenditure that may happen for our setup and cost over the next you know maybe for the FY26.
The last question, what is making you so optimistic about us? What is it, like policy change in India, your own IP, best-in-class product and anything bureaucratic controls which are getting involved? So just throw some light on that piece.
You know, the thing is that we have been going to the U.S., the largest U.S. simulation exhibition, for many years. Last year when we went, they were talking about R&D, for example. One of the product they were talking about was the containerized tank simulators that they want to build in the next five years, and they want to finance the R&D for that. You know, we actually had an online connection to the Indian office, this Indian demo center, and we showed it to them that, you know, this is the simulator, tank simulator that the Indian armed force army is using for the last 12 years. They were flabbergasted because it was a containerized simulator.
They said you have country simulators and you know they and in India has been using for the last 10 years and they are planning to use in the next five years. So you know, so these kind of. So we felt that you know this has given us very good confidence and you know we have been seeing other simulators also in the U.S. and we think that you know we have a fair chance very, very very good shot at becoming you know a dominant player in the army simulators there. You know and again typically they don't have a full-fledged solution. So we think that we can not only in terms of product selling but we're looking also at as a service can we sell training as a service there TAS. TAS we call it. So, these are the factors that, again, why we are confident is because we see that we are very well placed versus the competition, what we have in us now.
I think my main point was like in India the policy change was like in Make in India. So is something like that happening in US? I mean, I want to understand that piece.
Yeah. So you know I think what they have the Make in America policy which is I think to be and we what we understand is 51% should be made in U.S. and we want to very, very seriously comply and maybe do more than that there especially you know if it makes financial sense to us and try to sell there. But yeah, so I think that will comply with the existing policy that is there which is you know the manufacturing should happen in the U.S.
Okay, sir. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you Ashish.
Thank you. That was the last question for today. I now hand over to the management for closing.
Anybody on the line in the queue?
Sir, there are two participants in the queue.
Let us finish them. We have maybe two, three minutes. We'll just finish very quickly. Yeah.
All right. Okay.
So, next speaker is Mr. Amit Kumar. So, please proceed with your question.
Thank you, Ashok sir, very much for the opportunity again. So my question is, we have INR 1,100 crores cash sitting the balance sheet. So how much it is used for acquisitions and for CapEx. Any bifurcation?
Yeah, so our budget has been about INR 400 crores for acquisitions and Capex would be you know less than INR 100 crores. So that's what the plan is.
The rest six guessed INR 600 crores.
You know, we are looking. Some of it will be useful because of the extreme growth that we are having. I think almost INR 300-400 crores will be used for the working capital requirements.
Okay. After we spend 400 crores for acquisitions, how much top line we can expect, the same asset turnover ratio or just? If you could give some idea, you can take over. Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, definitely it will be in line with what you see current parameters of the Zen in terms of revenue, fixed asset turnover as well as return on equity and capital employed. Yeah. That you can consider.
Okay. And who are the competitors of Zen in anti-drone simulators in India and global scenario?
So you know again you know I think Bharat Electronics Limited is a in India it's a big simulator, is a big anti-drone simulation and system manufacturer. So you know we have competition from them globally. There are three or four players in simulators. For example Thales Saab Cubic Defense Systems and Ruag Germany. So these are the. Rheinmetall Germany is one of the company that has this simulators which compete with.
U.S. and in anti-drones.
Anti-drones, you know, we have something. The Aaronia is one company in Germany that is, you know, we think that they do very well in terms of aesthetic presentation and we really need to catch up with them. But there are a couple of companies which is maybe in U.S. and in Israel that are there, but we haven't really seen them competing with us anywhere.
Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Our next speaker is Mr. Rudresh Kalyani. So please proceed with your question.
Hi.
Thanks for the follow up.
See, did we ever had a product recall?
Product recall means. Yeah, we have had, you know, on one occasion we have had. Yeah.
Okay. What was the reason and what are the mitigation measures which we took?
So you know, the reason was that, you know, we felt that the customer was being unreasonable and we felt that this was a no go situation. In fact, we wanted, you know, sometimes you have to fire your customer. So these are one of those times that we had to fire the customer. And but anyway, so the thing is still not resolved, but you know, but yeah, we actually kind of said that, you know, this is a difficult customer to handle.
So that was the reason. Otherwise the product is a proven product and it's been used by many customers. But this particular customer was very difficult. So, to your question that if there have been when you talk about product recall, you're saying is there any process in the deficiency in the product? It has never been the case of deficiency but unsatisfied customer we have had.
You meant to say that because of the ROE which we were expecting and that customer was too aggressive and he was pulling every nickel from us so we couldn't deliver him.
Yeah, so, basically, you know, I mean. Listen, the thing is, if you decide not to be happy with the product, you can always keep finding lot of issues with that kind of a customer. It was. Yeah.
My final question is, can our anti-drone system be compared to the Iron Dome of Israel or is it entirely different system?
So you know, our thing is if we add the destruction, you know, the hard kill part then you know, we can create the Iron Dome.
Yes. Okay. So, okay, that's it.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question is from Mr. Anurag Agarwal.
Thank you for the follow up chance, sir. Sir, I just wanted to ask two more questions. When do we think we can close the acquisitions? Second, the product recall that we had, the client we fired, what was the size of the order that he had given to us?
So the first one was, you know, again acquisitions. We are giving it a one year time. We hope that we'll be able to do it kind of thing. And yeah, the product size, you know, I'm not able to recollect the order size but I think it was a few crores, not very big.
Okay, thank you so much for the deal, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
The next question is from Mr. Vipin Abraham. So please proceed with your question.
Sir, congratulations on a very good set of numbers and also appreciate your patience in answering all the different questions it's raised to you. So my question is generic. I want to ask for simulation. Typically on simulations, right? Just take the case of an aircraft simulator, right? Every pilot needs to get trained in a simulator. Given everything actually is becoming autonomous and automatic and so on, right? Where you need not need much human intervention, what would you think about the relevance of simulated training in the years to come?
So you are saying versus the aircraft training? What, what kind of level of training is required in the arm, in the army?
No sir, aircraft training was an example. I just wanted to ask you that, that generally people needs to get trained, right? In their craft simulators, right? And every pilot needs to get trained on that. It's just a general example, not typically specific to you, but my question to you specifically is that given everything is becoming more autonomous, right, with AI and so on, where people may not be, need not be trained much compared to. What it was earlier, what do you? Think any risk to our business given that scenario in five, 10 years down the line as far as simulation is concerned?
So you know, I don't know even, you know, in fact we are extreme users of AI for our software, for our target identification, etc. So to your question, if it becomes autonomous, whether the training would be required? You know, we have not yet seen autonomous tanks being driven anywhere in the world. We haven't seen these things. But eventually if they happen, I don't know.
So there'll be still some training required even to upload, you know, operate those autonomous systems is what we think. And again, by the way, we are getting into autonomous systems as we speak. The remote control weapon station is an autonomous remote control weapon station. We are getting into robotics. The Prahasta, the robotic dog is a, you know, it's a robotic dog. We're getting people out of harm's way.
So, you know, so we are taking advantage of the autonomous, you know, autonomous systems that are coming. And we will be, you know, as these things evolve, we will be looking at how to, you know, respond to those situations. But again, I think we don't see anything happening in the next at least five to six years in this regard.
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. As there is no further question, I now hand over to the management for closing remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Always, always a pleasure interacting with existing and potential investors. And I look forward to your continued support. Thanks to all our employees. And thanks to the government for being so encouraging and so helpful. And with this, I'll hand it over to Dana for closing. Adnan, you can close the call now.
On behalf of Zen Technologies Limited. That concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining us. And you may click the leave icon to exit the meeting. Thank you for your participation.