Good evening and warm welcome to all. Thank you for joining us on our Q1 FY 2027 earnings call. I'll take you through our financial performance for the quarter ended 30th June 2026. Consolidated revenue for operations for Q1 FY 2027 stood at INR 141.6 crore, compared with INR 178.1 crore in Q4 FY 2026 and INR 158.2 crore in Q1 FY 2026. As communicated in our Q4 FY 2026 post-earnings investors meeting, a significant portion of the current order book was secured from the second half of FY 2026, and given a typical execution cycle of around 12 months, revenue for the year is expected to be weighted towards Q2 and Q3. Q1 has come in as we expected, and we remain on track with our delivery schedules.
Operational EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 38.7 crore at an operational EBITDA margin of 27.3%, compared with 28.6% in Q4 FY 2026 and 40.9% in Q1 FY 2026. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 34.5 crore at a PAT margin of 24.3%, compared with INR 31.5 crore in Q4 FY 2026 and INR 47.8 crore in Q1 FY 2026. I would note that this quarter's consolidated PAT includes a one-off exceptional loss of INR 3.4 crore relating to a fire incident at one of our subsidiaries, in which certain inventory, which is adequately insured, was damaged. Adjusted for this exceptional item, on a post-tax basis, profit after tax for the quarter would have been approximately INR 37 crore at a margin of approximately 26.1%. I would like to spend a moment on the margin movement this quarter.
The margin for this quarter is lower than the guidance of 35% at the EBITDA level, largely due to negative operating leverage. A significant portion of our cost base, both at the standalone level and across the group, is fixed in nature. On a lower revenue base, this fixed cost absorption compresses the margins. As revenue picks up through the year, in line with our order book execution, this same operating leverage works in our favor. Importantly, our gross margin for the quarter stood at 72.9%, broadly consistent both sequentially and year-on-year. This indicates that the profitability of our business has not changed structurally. The compression at the EBITDA level is largely a function of the operating leverage, our fixed cost base being spread over lower revenue quarter and not a reflection of any change in the underlying economics of our products.
On the year-on-year comparison specifically, I would add an important point of context. Q1 FY 2026 benefited from the reversal of certain provisions created in FY 2025, amounting to INR 7.65 crore that were no longer required. These provision releases had given Q1 FY 2026 an additional margin improvement of approximately 5%. In addition, this quarter has seen an increase in warranty provisions of INR 2.88 crore and incremental R&D costs of INR 4.25 crore. On a sequential basis, our margin of 27.3% is broadly in line with the 28.6% in Q4 FY 2026, reflecting a stable underlying run rate. Taking these points together, I want to affirm that the margin this quarter is a function of revenue timing and operating leverage, not of any structural change in the profitability of the business.
As revenue scales through the year, we expect margins to recover and to end FY 2027 with a full-year operational EBITDA margin in the mid-30s, in line with our guidance. Coming to the order book. The consolidated order book stood at INR 1,239 crores as of June 30th, 2026, comprising an equipment order book of INR 920.6 crores and an AMC order book of INR 318.4 crores. I want to address the movement in the order book directly. During the quarter, we executed INR 141.6 crores of orders and secured INR 44.6 crores of new orders, resulting in a net reduction over the March position. Subsequent to the quarter end, we received a further order of INR 177.5 crores from the Ministry of Defence for the upgradation and integration of the tank and crew gunnery simulators. Our pipeline of opportunities across counter and training systems remains strong.
On working capital, our consolidated working capital cycle stood at 257 days as of June 30th, 2026. The increase over the year-end position is primarily driven by a buildup in advance to suppliers and inventory, both of which reflect the procurement and production activity currently underway to execute the order book for delivery through FY 2027. Debtor days remain stable at 122 days. On the balance sheet, the liquidity position of the group remains strong, with cash and bank balances of approximately INR 1,217 crores as of June 30th, 2026, and the group remains debt-free. This is the brief on our financial performance for the quarter. We can now take questions. Thank you.
Thank you so much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may click on the raise hand icon from the Participants tab on your screen. We request participants to keep their questions as brief as possible and precise as possible. We will wait for a few minutes until the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. We will wait until the question queue assembles. Requesting participants to click on the raise hand icon from the Participants tab on your screen. All right. We are taking our first question now from Bala Murali Krishna of Oman Investment. Bala, please go ahead.
Good evening. The first question is on the margins only. Year-over-year, the dip in the margins, even the revenue. If you see that, the revenue, if there is a scale-up in revenue, then operation leverage will kick in. As the revenue is almost similar, the year-over-year. What could be the reason for this margin shrinkage there?
Thank you, Bala. Bala, like I mentioned in my opening comments, in Q1 of FY 2026, there were a couple of provision releases, which happened. If you see the comparison between the selling and other admin expenses, you'd see a big difference. That's primarily because FY 2025 was a year when we executed a lot of orders, and we had to create provisions in the balance sheet, and most of the provisions, after the balance sheet, we released it, because they were no longer required. That has given a picture wherein the EBITDA margin of around 40% for Q1 FY 2026, adjusted for whatever provisions have been released, the actual margin for Q1 FY 2026 would be around 35%.
Okay, understood. On the order book front, as of now, even if we include this July order, it's around INR 1,400 crores. By the end of FY 2027, what is your expectation for the order book?
Like we've communicated earlier in our investor meetings as well, our expectation is that we'll end the year at around INR 2,500 crores of order book. That is after the execution for the current year. The pipeline of orders that we are currently evaluating is very healthy and, once the government procurement starts, we should see a healthy amount of this pipeline converted into the order book by end of the year.
And on the projections front for the next two years, we have a target of getting a cumulative INR 4,000 crore of revenue in the FY 2027 and FY 2028 together. With this current geopolitical situations, there should be some rush in the anti-drone systems, all those things. Do you see any probability to get some bigger figures in FY 2027 and FY 2028?
I think, we should be getting quite a lot of orders. We are getting inquiries from our friendly allies, India's friendly allies about this. Given the fact that the product that we have actually been proven, battle-proven, we have the people are The government itself, as you have seen, that they almost placed INR 800 crore worth of anti-drone orders on us, post Operation Sindoor. There are a lot of upcoming tenders. We saw that tens, thousands of INR crore of money has been allocated to them and there is a lot of tenders are going to come. I think we will be one of the beneficiary of these anti-drone system tenders. In the meantime, as we have been saying that some simulator orders have been pending. I think the start has happened, that we got the INR 177 crore order.
I think some more orders will be coming through. We expect that to happen, some order to come through pretty soon and one larger order that may take a couple of months, but that should actually improve our simulator order book position substantially. Similarly, the demand is, even in foreign countries, what has happened is for almost, these guys were never prepared. They had never had any similar training because it was a peaceful country. But now with all these wars happening, there is almost a rush happening, especially for simulator, because that is the only way they can train in a compressed manner. Everybody feels that the war is knocking on their door. We have seen, and the technologies that we have, we have seen Agniveer's 100-week training program was shrunk to 30 weeks after using our simulators.
I think, this with simulators also are becoming very important, and we are trying to get into our traditional market for Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia and CIS countries. But now we are also looking very aggressively into both North American and EU markets. Of course, from North America, we are tapping into the South American markets. These markets, we think are very big and, for example, one estimate is that the simulators, our-- the TAM for the product that Zen Technologies makes in U.S. itself is about $10 billion. That's how huge that is. We have started talking to the marines there, to the primes, because we are not eligible to be directly bidding, so we are trying to be a subcontractor and try to get into those markets.
I think, it's a very large market, it's playing out now as we speak that there is a lot of interest. Again, we also have a special position with EU because we make simulators for the Russian equipment, and that's what they would like to actually practice on and how do we thwart the attacks from possibly Russia kind of a thing. Yes, I think we are in a very good position, and we think, the next few months will be very interesting.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the great explanation.
Yeah.
Lastly on this high-altitude anti-drone systems, what is the TAM? Maybe this is India's first one, but maybe in the other parts of the world it's already existing. What could be the TAM, even if you consider the exports also for this product?
I think we have just launched. Again, we are waiting for this man-portable anti-drone system to be evaluated by the armed forces. We think that it's a very large market. Again, the government has to publish the tenders, and we expect that there'll be some tenders in this regard. We don't have a real estimate at this. The government is across the whole gamut of simulators. They're starting from actually border-based, then they're going to tank, then they're going to infantry. I think it's a very large market, and I'm not able to give a right figure, but it's going to be very large.
Okay, sir. Just to follow up on that one, if I may ask. If we come up with some new product which is useful for our defense system, how we'll exhibit that product to the government so that they can think from their operation point of view, and maybe they can understand the significance of this product, then they can think of tendering for this product?
Yeah, it's a valid question in the sense that whatever product we are developing, we actually are continuously engaging with the armed forces and telling that this product is available. With this new Defence Acquisition Procedure, if that comes in, they actually have provisions for actually buying new products and then trying it out, and then scaling the order. They will probably see a basic trial and say, okay, we want to try it out in the field. If it works in the trial, they'll scale up. That's the new DAP 2020, yet to be announced, but in the draft this was there. To your question, yes, as a market, as a company, we do continuously keep telling our customers what exactly we are developing and what is the future development path. They do know what we have developed much in advance then, we actually share with our other stakeholders.
Thank you, sir. That's all from my side on this.
Thanks, Bala. Thank you.
Thank you so much. We'll take our next question from Pawan Punjabi of Viansh Ventures. Pawan, please unmute. Yes.
Hello, sir. I just wanted to check on the simulator market once, because we've not been growing into the I have been following this for a while now, and seemingly the number of armed forces which are using simulators is very less in India. That itself was supposed to grow exponentially. X of anti-drones also, we do not see simulator orders also perform very well in the last one or two years in terms of growth rates. How do we see this market only from the Indian perspective?
Pawan. The thing is, again, I was telling that the order that we got recently, INR 177 crore for simulators, and there is another. We had talked about almost INR 700 crore-INR 800 crore worth of orders out. That is actually playing out now. We expect more simulator orders to come as we go into the next couple of months. Again, I have been talking like this for a long time, but actually, I think one order has come. I think the second order may come. Maybe the third order may take a bit of a time, but that will also come. I think with the simulator market is expanding, and now in the future, we are thinking, now we have got into the flight simulators also, as you saw in the presentation, that we have got into flight simulator. We have made a simulator for C-295.
The Air Force entry is a very crucial step for us, where the simulators are very required even for a regular practice. The simulators, every pilot has to clock certain number of simulator hours to even fly it. We are getting into that also. As far as the army and naval market, in which we are dominant, these are very big, and as we speak, there are a lot of studies that have come out and that are again telling the government that you should get into simulators, and the government is actually really increasing the simulator budget.
I think there has been a gap in the orders to come, again, we have started getting the orders. I think this will be the start. As we go into the future, I think there will be some pleasant surprises. I think there are some couple of very large orders we are expecting. I think overall, I am happy with the way the simulator thing is going. Of course, I wish that the government moves faster. Yeah. Please go ahead.
Just to put a number to it. We are expecting some INR 4,000 crore of revenues for the next two years. In your estimate, what should the simulator number be out of this INR 4,000 guidance set?
It could be above INR 2,000 crore in that.
Okay, that's what we are expecting. With some pleasant surprise.
Yeah.
Probably in Q2 and Q3.
Yes. No, order-wise may take a little longer, the very large order we are talking about. These, I was talking about the, some time back said that INR 700 crores-INR 800 crores worth of orders were in the pipeline.
Right.
I think those may materialize very much sooner than Q2, Q3, yeah.
Understood.
Q3, yeah. Definitely, yeah.
A little bit of update probably on the HyperStrike. I read that this sort of area is being probed by multiple peers out here, and the timing is more critical in terms of this long-range strike drones of the market of this long range. Where are we, and are we on track to get this by FY 2028?
Yeah. The product has been demonstrated in the sense that the payloads, et cetera, integration is going on, but this is not a long-range thing. This is what we call it as, even though it goes very fast. We recently were doing We have actually flown at 300 very comfortably, but now we are really testing the limits of physics in the thing. With the payloads and all that. When the drones are actually very near, we try to send it. The range typically would be within 20 kilometers range, we go and destroy the incoming Shahed kind of a drone. That is what this HyperStrike, it is an intercepted drone. Yes.
Okay.
It is meant for Yeah. This is at a short range, it does it, but it goes very fast. Even if it misses, it chases till it actually destroys the incoming drone. That's what the interceptor drone does. I think this will make us completely safe from so-called Shahed drones, which our enemies have.
I believe there was one interceptor drone by Paras launched very recently. How do we stack up against them? Is it competitive?
I'm really not aware of what they have launched. Again, our product is completely in-house. We have developed the technology completely in-house. I'm really not aware of that Paras. Some of the subsequent speaker can just tell us the detail, then maybe that would be of interest. What we are developing is, I think absolutely on the cutting edge, very fast, very reliable, and very reasonably priced.
Understood, sir. Thanks a lot. That's all from my side.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Pawan. We're now moving to our next speaker. We have Akshay Kaila of AK Investment. Akshay, please unmute and go ahead with your question.
Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead.
Okay, sir. First of all, congratulations for introducing new product line recently on the Kargil Vijay Diwas. Sir, my first question is about, as you have said, that in U.S., Zen Technologies' addressable markets are like $10 billion for all of our products. What gives us the right to win in that strict regulatory market, and how are you preparing ourselves for that type of market?
Yeah. In the sense that, very frankly, the market size is very large, but U.S. is one of the very closed markets and very difficult for an Indian company to go and sell there. How are we approaching is that first we are trying to get all the compliances done. They're very heavy, strict compliances, and I think they should be there because they're letting a foreign company into their ecosystem. They have FOCI clearance, ITAR clearances, all those clearances are going on now. Once they feel comfortable with us, then that is when they will actually let us bid directly. As of now, the strategy is that we should align ourselves with the prime vendors. If somebody wants to come to India, they would try to align with Zen Technologies and try to sell it through.
Maybe we don't do that much. If there is a real high-tech company, we would like to collaborate with them and offer something to armed forces. Similarly, in the U.S., we are looking for companies that want to actually do something for us and have the access to the customer while we have the product, and we want to collaborate with them and supply. This is the market that we are looking at. We expect some orders to come through. Again, this will not be very large, even though I said $10 billion is for the next three years, actually, that is the market size. We have very modest ambition that even if we touch $100 million in the third year, we should be very happy with that result.
It's a long-term game, and we expect, given the fact that our products have very well received in exhibitions in U.S., we expect that some breakthrough may happen. If luck favors, it may be a much larger breakthrough. As of now, I think a year or two, there's no big news from U.S. as such, or the EU, but maybe third year onwards, something may happen there.
Okay, sir. Sir, my second question is about our solutions. We already have the strong hold in army solution, right? What are we developing in the navy and air force, and can navy and air force be the same addressable market and growth for Zen Technologies' army in the coming months and years?
Yeah. I think navy is a very big market, because the very fact is that even though we are obsessed with our east and west border, which is shared by our lovely friends, we have the rest of the whole peninsular place, which is completely unguarded. That is where the next game is being played, power game is being played, which is the Indian Ocean. How do we actually control that ocean without being trained? In terms of training simulator, there is going to be a very large market, and I think a lot of sea-related products are also going to have a lot of demand, even though we are not much into that. I think naval simulators are going to be very big, and they want to train. How do you actually foresee certain kind of situation?
For example, I see a swarm of drones coming and attacking me. How do I actually simulate that? If I really want to practice, I cannot practice in reality. It has to be through simulation. If 100 drones are coming, how do I neutralize the 100 drones on a ship? Or forget about ground. All these things have to be practiced before the things happen, and they are not very far away, 100 drones coming and attacking a ship or even a poor army post or something. We have a drone and counter drone simulator where the drones actually simulate the bombs being sent and counter drone simulators. The operator is struggling, how do I neutralize, how work is order, what hard kill options do I activate? All the decisions have to be taken, and this cannot be done in practice except through simulators.
We have those simulators. I think, yeah, for Navy, also, these counter drone simulators are there. Of course, they are very well entrenched in the submarine, the AI tactical trainers. We have the bridge simulators, the engine room simulator, et cetera. We all have those simulators, which is again very big and growing market.
Okay.
Yes, we are there. Of course, now we are trying to push our solutions into Air Force, we think that there is a huge demand for the Air Force simulators also. We have yet to get some orders or any indication of participation tenders in that regard.
Okay. In the Navy front, do we have any developed products up till now, or are we in the progress of developing the product?
No, naval simulators we have. We have a lot of those simulators. In fact, if you just go to the website, ARI Simulation website, you will see that we have for almost all kind of simulators, and with Zen Technologies' capability, we are giving weapon simulators for the navy ships also. We have the complete range available for the bridge simulator, tank simulator, submarine simulator. The naval simulator, we have a whole range. I think we have the most exhaustive range in the world. Nobody else has, like army. It is in the Air Force that we have just recently started.
Okay, sir. Okay, understood. My last question is-
Akshay, sorry about this.
I will join back with you. Thank you.
Yeah. Please, if you can rejoin. Thank you so much, Akshay. We're taking a next question now. We have Ashit Kothi of Almondz Global. Ashit, please go ahead, and please restrict to two questions, and then you can rejoin the queue if you have any follow-up.
Yeah. I have one question for Ashok, sir. Hello?
Yeah, please go ahead, Ashit.
Yes, sir. Sir, just one basic question with regards to anti-drone system. The speed at which the drones are being flown, I suppose from 240 km/h or 300 km/h to 600 km/h . In that scenario, our anti-drone system, if it is the parameters are, let's say, radius of 5 km or 6 km, how can they intercept and stop?
Ashit, there are different ways of stopping the drones. One is, number one, are they being controlled from the ground? Is there a ground to drone communication happening? In which case, we will be using the jamming system. We will just jam the system, and we will be able to stop the communication with the structure. As communication stops, typically what happens is the drone itself gets lost and either it lands itself wherever it is, or it goes back to the home station. We have neutralized the threat. In case it is coming autonomously using the GPS thing, what we do is we try to spoof the GPS and say that, you are not in India.
You're probably in Pakistan or Balochistan, or whatever, and mislead, and it gets again disoriented and the same two things happen, back to home or, just land where it is. Third is where they use autonomous AI-based intelligence in the sense that what happens is the drone has the complete topographical map, and the camera keeps taking the live photograph and tries to match and says, okay, I'm in this location. I have to go in this direction. Even if you jam, it doesn't work. In those cases, the only way to destroy them is through actual hard kill system, weapon system. It could be typically, you can either shoot them down, very difficult to shoot at the speed you are saying. The only possible way to block them is through interceptor drones. That is what we are doing.
We should be able to neutralize the incoming interceptor drone with that. I think interceptor drones are the solution, the people are making this HPM-based, high power microwave-based, solutions are there. We have a laser solution that we are offering to the armed forces. Depending, it will be a combination of solution, how do you actually jam the thing. It is the challenge. At 600 km, it will become a challenge, I think we are coming up with a solution for that. At a lower speed of up to 400 km, we can handle the threat of drones. Actually drones flying more than 400 km are very few. We will be coming up with a solution for that.
Ashit, do you have any other question? You can unmute your microphone and ask your next question.
Okay. Yeah. Basically, sir, my question, why this was, because when I am having drones flying from the opposition side, which is, let's say, 300 km inside, and from there when they are flying. By the time they reach the borders I have very less amount of time to kill them or confuse them or spoof them, as you say. In that scenario, a combination of your anti-drone system, does it involve UAV whereby your UAV would be there in the air, and also identifying those flying drones way in advance, and then using your technology of spoofing and other things?
Yeah, that is right. Once the drone is detected on the radar, the action is typically dictated in collaboration with AI. AI will actually tell you, this is the speed at which it's coming. This is the solution that you have. The man in the loop then has to initiate the hard kill. They will immediately say, okay, immediately let me launch a UAV, or I can destroy it with a particular type of a weapon. That decision will be authenticated by the man in the loop, because for any hard kill, the human element will be there, and they say yes to the suggestion, and the drone goes in and counteracts the drone immediately. What you are saying is, listen, they are flying at 5 km/min , so at 300 km, that would be the speed they're flying. Can we really stop them?
Yes, we can stop them. The answer is, we have the solution for that. At that speed, we can definitely send our counter-drone system. The UAV is much faster than that. Wherever it is coming, it is being detected at a probable distance of 100 km or so. We are talking about 20 minutes to reach us. Can we stop in between? Yes, my answer is yes, we can do that.
That would decide our overall market size. Market size of anti-drone system.
I'm sorry, you suddenly jumped from something to something.
Yes.
What is the-
That's where I will say, if my system has that kind of a power, then my market size would expand manyfold.
Yeah. I think I'm now getting what you're saying. That basically, thousands of drones would be required to actually stop those incoming, because now it's not going to be one drone or three drones being sent. They'll be sending a swarm, hundreds and thousands of these drones. For example, we look at China, they say that each unit is having 1,000 drones. Each infantry unit is having 1,000 drones. By the time they're exposed, they would have destroyed the armed force if they don't have counter solution for their drones. Yes, this market for these interceptor drones is going to be very large, especially for the Shahed class. What I was talking about, the infantry may be a smaller other kind of solution. Yeah, I think the market is very large. You are right about it.
Thank you, sir. I'll come again.
Thank you so much.
Sure.
Thank you, Ashit. We have our next question now coming in from Shivam Parakh of ValueWise Wealth Management. Shivam, please go ahead.
Hi, sir.
Yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead, Shivam.
Hi, sir. Good evening. First [inaudible]
Ashok sir, are you able to hear the question clearly?
No, I'm not able to hear him. There's no clarity. Sorry.
Shivam, can you ask your question closer to the microphone, please?
My first question relates to the press release.
No. Sorry, Shivam, it's not clear. I'm sorry. Am I the only one? I don't know, but I'm not able to hear it clearly.
Yes, sir. Is it better, sir?
Yeah, much better. Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yeah. First, my question relates to your recent press release on Vector Technics. In that, we mentioned that the capacity expanded to 300,000 units. Do we sell the propulsion stack to other drone manufacturers, or is it only for ourselves to sell to the market? What is the revenue contribution that is coming, if at all you can mention for Vector Technics for us? Second, any update for our recently launched Integrated Smart Border Suite? These were my questions.
Yeah. Okay. For your first question, Vector Technics has expanded its capacity to almost to 300,000 units. Your second question was, is it only for in-house consumption or is it for Actually, Vector Technics is very agnostic. They don't care whether Zen Technologies wants or anybody want. Everybody is a customer for them. They are looking to sell it to all the customers in India. But the strange part is, almost 50% of the queries that they're getting are from overseas, including Europe and America. Last year, I think, they had done very small turnover, but almost 50% has been sent to overseas. I think the product that they're making is really world-class. The second is that they are selling to all Indian participant and Indian friendly allies. The third thing is that we expect that they are waiting for orders to come.
I think what I hear from Vector is that the drone segments itself has slowed down. They're not getting as many orders as they should be. Once the orders come to the drone companies in India, I think Vector Technics will be the first beneficiary. Then, of course, from their export market, I think is going to be very large as they go. I know I can't put any figure to that, but I think it's a very good bet that they will be able to use the whole capacity if the orders come.
I mean to say, if the order come at even at INR 10,000, that's almost like, I think, INR 300 crore of them. INR 300 crore, yeah. I think that could be the potentially revenue contribution from them. I think they're doing more technologies, and I think it's a much bigger story than what I would assume. Let us wait how it plays out. With respect to the Integrated Smart Border- S orry, Shivam, you were saying something or no?
Yes, just a follow-up on that.
Yeah, please.
As you mentioned in the press release that most of the propulsion stack is currently being imported by the domestic drone manufacturers. Since our subsidiary is one of the first to build everything in-house, for the entire Indian drone market, we would be a direct proxy play for all the players there out in the drone ecosystem, we would be able to supply for them the propulsion stack.
I'm not so sure how many other people are there, but I think what Vector Technics makes is really cutting-edge and one of the best in the world. Forget about India. I think every order comes potentially Vector Technics hopes to win from that. You're absolutely right. Every day it's a proxy win for Vector Technics. Let us hope how it translates in reality. First let the orders come to the drone companies from the armed forces, I think then we'll see how much of the benefit is derived by Vector Technics.
Yes, sir. Secondly, on the Integrated Smart Border Suite.
Yeah.
Integrated-
I was going to answer that. Integrated Smart Border Suite is basically, it's a solution where there are multiple armed forces, there is Border Security Force, there is state police, and there is the Army itself at the border location. What happens is, everybody's manning the borders by themselves. Now, this integrated smart border management system is actually seeking that all the different kind of sensors by different unit, including human intel, should be fused into a common operating picture and shown to the decision-makers. That is what the one which we released was doing.
The product is being, as we speak, we are talking to various security forces and showing the system, and we expect there's a very large market. I think there'll be multiple players, I think, in this game, because it can't be serviced by one company, is what my feeling is. Even though we would love to service as a company. I think there will be multiple players. I think Zen Technologies will definitely be a beneficiary of when they roll out this, in terms of placing orders, et cetera.
Thank you, sir. Shivam, please rejoin the queue if you have any follow-up questions. Please restrict to two questions each. This is a request for all the participants that we have. We are now moving to our next speaker. We have Gautam Rathi of CWC. Gautam
Yes.
Please go ahead. Yes.
Thanks for taking my question. To Ashok and Hari, I just want to step back a bit. When I see Zen Technologies from the outside over the last three to four years, right? You have moved from being, say, one or two capabilities to five capability company. You have moved from just a core simulation for army to now simulation for all the three forces. You have just being a technology provider to now even being in active warfare, hard kill weaponry, everything, right? When we look at the order flow, it does not really justify the kind of transition this company has done over the last few years. If you can just help me understand two things across this is.
One is, if you think across each of your capabilities, right, is there some external challenges or internal challenges which is leading to, capability-wise, I'm talking about, which is actually leading to this softness in order flow? Second is, if you can also help, if there are capabilities which we call out but maybe will take some time to mature. Maybe it's not an FY 2027 game, but say an FY 2028, FY 2029 game. It will be very helpful to just understand across five capabilities, which year does the technology be mature or, say, actively contribute significantly to the order book? Second, how should we think about the order flow in view of this transition you have made?
Thanks for the question, Gautam. The way we look at it, obviously, we are the leaders in the simulator space now almost more than 30 years. Anti-drone systems, obviously. These are the two main segments which, to answer your question, have matured, and there is a sizable portion of order inflow which has happened over the past couple of months. In addition to that, the other new capabilities that we've built, especially in the drones, in the robotic space, and in the drone propulsion. Drone propulsion is something that, like Ashok sir mentioned with the earlier participant, there is a huge market for the drone propulsion, and we should be seeing those orders materialize for Vector Technics. Robotics is something that we've just entered into, and you would have seen that we've launched a new product called Vrishab, which is the unmanned ground vehicle.
We have done our internal trial for it. We expect to take it to the customer and do the trials with them, but it is going to take some time. To answer your question, robotics is something that is going to take time. We are doing some heavy investment in other key areas like autonomous vehicles and for defense purposes and all that. These are investments for the future. Most probably it will take at least two to three years for these products to mature. We are very hopeful because these are the technologies which are required for the future and globally also are required for any defense or government body to have. I hope I answered your question. To summarize, basically simulators and anti-drone systems is something that is going to drive the company forward, at least in the foreseeable one to two years.
Whatever we've launched in the last couple of months, let it be the interceptor drone, or let it be the other hard kill options, which is the ammunition and all, these are going to complement our existing products and these are the need of the hour for the customers. The investment that we are making in robotics, autonomous vehicles and other capabilities that we are trying to build, is something that you will start seeing the benefit in next two years at least.
Understood. Just if you can help me, when we talk about your core simulation and anti-drone market, or the order flow, can you just help us? I see simulation, you have started to get some orders, but anti-drone still seems to be a bit softer. Is it an internal issue or with technology evolving so rapidly that you have to just keep on upgrading the systems? Or is it something with the customer which is causing a problem, like they are not able to order or they are not clear with their requirements? If you can just give us some thought process around it and how should we think about it in the next nine, 12 months, in terms of the order flow and the size. That would be really helpful. Thanks.
I think, Gautam, this is mostly demand-related issue more than our ability to supply. I mean, I'm definitely expecting some competition to come up and some place where we don't win kind of a thing, even though last few tenders we were single vendor, there were nobody other competition. Everybody was disqualified because this IDM, the government was looking into the codes, the drawings, the design, et cetera. Nobody came there, actually, nobody get qualified even technically. I think that will change as we go ahead. I think even the requirements will be so varied that Zen Technologies will not be able to cater to all the requirements. There will be something in which we'll qualify and do very well, and something we may be disqualified. I think the market is expanding, and it is going in all directions, and there are very specific needs, multiple verticals emerging.
As of now, the problem is of demand. There are no tenders that have come out for anti-drone systems. There are no simulator tenders that have come out. We are expecting that the fast-track process with the government actually granted recently, all those tenders are going to come in, and we will be bidding in that, and that those orders will come very fast. It's not that they're going to take forever. I think they will be finalized in a few months. I think that's going to be the thing. To your question, the issue is not with Zen Technologies, but the government has not floated any tenders in the recent times. As and when they float, we will be bidding for that, and we will be hearing the good news.
Sure. Thanks, Ashok, for that. Thanks.
Thanks, Gautam. Yeah.
Thank you so much, Gautam. We have our next speaker. We have Sanjeev Zarbade of Antique Stock Broking. Sanjeev, please go ahead. Sanjeev, please unmute your microphone so that we can hear you.
Sir, wanted to get a sense of the market potential over the next three years in simulators for the three wings of our armed forces, that is Army, Navy and Air Force. What would be our go-to-market strategy regarding the Air Force simulators wherein we are still kind of getting our foot in. Some sense on that, sir.
I'll start with that Air Force thing. Air Force is the market that, again, very strong market, and that's the reason we were actually looking for acquisitions, but now we have started developing our own simulator. The first simulator was the C-295 that was shown in the presentation. Of course, all related technologies with flight simulator, including 3D motion platform, et cetera, are already available with us, and we can make a full motion simulator. We are now started bidding and inviting Air Force to come and see our capabilities. They are shortlisting us for all future simulators in Air Force. That is one thing. With respect to the Army and Navy, I think our estimation is for both the markets, it's upwards of about INR 2.5 billion. That's about INR 25,000 crores.
We expect that. Again, when will they play out? That's a question that we are not able to answer, but they are definitely going into multiple. From multiple INR 100 crores, they're going to INR 1,000 crores is what we feel in the next couple of years. I think, the growth prospects there are very large in both Army and Navy. That is the broad answer to you, Sanjeev. I think I've addressed your questions.
Yeah. Sir, my second question regarding the tank gunnery order. These kind of orders, they come on a yearly basis or when we have got this order, the immediate requirement across India has been fulfilled, and maybe the next order may come two, three years down the line when the army may need some modification or a different product. What is the recurrence? Can these similar order come next year also or the immediate requirement is fulfilled? That's what I want to confirm.
Okay. Sanjeev, just to tell you how we estimate the market size, typically is, let us say that as per the Wikipedia, Government of India has 4,000 tanks, let us say. It's a different number, but just for the sake of simplicity. For 4,000 tanks, there are three operators with three backup operators. You have the driver, gunner, and the commander. These guys need to be trained. Now, how much time should they be trained is the question. Typically, if you say they have to be trained for 10% of their time. Out of 2,000 hours, they need to be trained for 200 hours on the simulator. That would be, say that, we have a six into 4,000, 24,000 soldiers who need to be trained for about 200 hours. That would mean that, there is a demand for INR 48 lakh hours of training. Okay. Are you with me here?
Yes, sir.
Yeah, INR 48 lakh hours of training. For what this INR 48 lakh hours training, how many simulators are required? Just divide INR 48 lakhs by 2,000 hours. Each simulator has 2,000 hours, so that will give me 2,400 simulators. Whatever they have procured until now is just a small slice of what their requirement. Even this, the order that came, INR 177 crore, is actually not a new order. It was for integrating existing simulator so that the armed forces could try it and the whole tank could be trained as a integrated unit.
Right.
The driver and the tank gunnery, driving simulator and the tank gunnery simulator, both are combined now and given various kind of situations, et cetera, including AI were there. To your question, this is a very small part. This is a very limited number of orders. Just multiply it with, maybe 100 times or something like that to really get the estimate of the size of the order. At least do it 30 times of this. We think the market size is very large. The orders that we are getting are only part of the thing and a concept proving at this point in time.
Again, typically, once we get the order, the order life cycle is 10 years, and after the second year, third year onward, we get the AMC. It generates revenues for us even through the life cycle of the thing. 10 years later, they are replaced. Number one, the market size is very huge. The order they have given is very small part of it that addressing. Second is even for the small part, they're generating revenue typically from the third year onwards. I think I'll stop here, but I hope I have answered your question.
Understood, sir. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Thanks, Sanjeev.
Thank you. We have Dipen Vakil of PhillipCapital with his question. Dipen, please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for this opportunity. Sir, what I want to understand from you is that, are you experiencing a change in the type of ordering or the change in the ordering scenario? Earlier, the way we used to get was, like, a two-year, three-year ordering. Now from that, are we getting more of 12-month ordering? Is this something which is happening from an industry-wide angle? Because it has been a while since, and a lot of private companies are getting just 12-month orders, 12-15 months order and not a long-term order. Are you experiencing that and that is how the industry is shaping up now, or that is just a short-term scenario for now?
I think, because of the threats that are being posed, government was going in a fast-track mode to acquire faster. By in fast track, typically, the execution cycle is one year, the thing has to be done. To your question, is everything going fast-track mode? The answer is no. The government is going on regular procurement in some channels where they don't have urgency. Again, the industry would love to have this 12-month cycle more than the larger cycle, which can take anywhere up to three years. Yes, we are getting more and more this FTP-based orders, but still the very large orders are being routed through the regular procurement route.
Got it, sir. Sir, can you help us with I'm sorry if this is a repeat question as I joined a little late, but can you help us with what are the orders which are there on the expected side of it, say, for the rest of the year? If there are any major orders that you could highlight as to which are expected in near term?
I was talking about the simulator orders that we have been saying that we're going to get in the next few months. I think that one of the order we already got for INR 177 crore. There are a couple of more orders. One order, I think may come sooner than later. Maybe very soon. The second order, again, we think it'll take a couple of months. Altogether, I think we had said that INR 700 crore-INR 800 crore worth of orders are incoming. I think that's going to happen soon.
Got it, sir. Sir, last-
This is only for the simulators. Anti-drone system is a different ballgame that's going to be much, much larger in scope, and that will run into, I think, at least INR 2,000 crore.
When you look at it from an overall point of view, overall, how much order wins are you expecting in, say, FY 2027?
No, what I have learned from frequent prediction is not to make any prediction, I'll not make any prediction. I think it's going to be very large, Dipen. I think strangely, a lot of companies are going to get a lot of orders because there is so much in the works that I don't think any one company can really service them. I think it's a very large market, and I think it's a fantastic time for the defense companies as a whole, defense industry as a whole. I think we look forward to getting the orders, executing them, making India stronger, completely unbeatable in war. We look forward to that.
Got it, sir. Sir, that's all from my side. I'll connect again if there are any more questions.
Sure.
Thank you so much, Dipen. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I will now hand it back to Mr. Ashok Atluri. Over to you, sir.
Thanks, Swapnil. Overall, I want to make Most of the points were covered by that, overall, what I want to say is, we are very excited as the management of the company the way things are going. Orders have started coming, and we expect new orders to come in for simulators and, little much later, the orders from anti-drone systems. One question that nobody touched upon was the acquisitions. What's happening with acquisitions? We actually are looking to acquire more companies, and I think they will really add a new dimension to the company, the way ARI acquisition and other acquisitions have happened. I think this will be a very interesting acquisition with huge revenue potential we will be acquiring. We are looking around for companies. I think that will be very good news for our investors.
Fortunately, even though we have deployed most of the QIP funds, some funds are still there. Fortunately, we have built up enough cash chest to actually invest in very interesting companies. This was one part that wasn't covered. Again, the Integrated Smart Border Suite is something we are excited. I think this is, again, a very large order, and Zen Technologies is really geared up to take advantage of that. There are new things coming up, the laser-based, the direct energy weapon systems. Some of technologies are really in the works in R&D, which we cannot tell at this point in time.
As we go ahead, we'll be announcing them. They're really cutting-edge, not only from India's point of view, but world's point of view. I think we are looking forward to that, and thanks for supporting us all through this. I think there have been difficult times for Zen Technologies, and I see that in spite of quite testing times, you have stayed with us. I think the time has come that good news will start trickling in slowly, and long-term holders will be rewarded sufficiently. Again, thank you so much for your support.
Thank you. On behalf of Zen Technologies Limited, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now click on the leave icon to exit the meeting. Thank you all for your participation.