Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the 2022 earnings conference call of Triveni Turbine Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishab Barar of CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Q3 and nine- months FY 2022 earnings conference call of Triveni Turbine Limited. We have with us today on the call Mr. Nikhil Sawhney, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Arun Mote, Executive Director, Mr. S.N. Prasad, President Global Sales Product, Mr. Sachin Parab, President Global Sales Aftermarket, Ms. Surabhi Chandna, Investor Relations and Value Creation, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite which was mailed to everybody earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all the invitees, it may not be broadcast or reproduced in any form or manner.
We will start this call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have an interactive question and answer session. I now request Mr. Nikhil Sawhney to share some perspectives with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Very good afternoon to all of you, and welcome to the Q3 nine-month results for Triveni Turbine Limited. I trust that all of you are well and safe and that this current strain of Omicron and this COVID pandemic has not impacted you and your loved ones. To bring you to the performance of the company, during the quarter, revenue for the company grew by 29.8% on a year-on-year basis to INR 2.25 billion. EBITDA increased by 33% year-on-year to INR 534 million, and the EBITDA margins improved by 53 basis points to 23.7%. Profit after tax grew 29.8% as well as the sales turnover to INR 357 million.
The higher turnover has led to a better operating leverage, despite nearly 72% of turnover coming from the domestic sales, as well as the aftermarket contributing only 25.7%. This has been a true achievement by management to not only control costs, both from an administrative as well as selling expenses, but also containing all other aspects of costs, including employee costs. Raw material prices have been high, which is reflected in our raw material percentage sales at 55%. Typically, this is much lower in previous quarters and hovers around between 50%-51%, and attempts are that we will get it back to this level during the current coming quarters. It is also a reflection of the sales mix, where we had a higher percentage of domestic sales which carried a lower margin.
The balance sheet of the company continues to be extremely strong, and the cash balance is higher than it was in Q2. The net working capital of the company continues to remain negative, and this is backed by significant customer advances, which is in excess of INR 244 crore on this, as of nine months. The biggest achievement of this quarter, and something that I'd like to focus a lot of time on, is our order booking. As you, ladies and gentlemen, as you would understand, order booking for a company like Triveni Turbine is what gives us visibility into sales in the coming quarters and coming years.
The current increase in gross fixed capital formation globally is something that has contributed to our increase in sales, but more so has been our growth in our product profile, both from the API market as well as other markets which we have selected, which we have grown, but more significantly is the growth in attacking the 30 MW-100 MW segment. On the order booking side, I'm very pleased to share with you that the company has again reported its highest order booking in the quarter of INR 3.21 billion. A key highlight of this order booking is winning three international orders in the over 30 MW segment from a very prestigious customer from South Korea, actually, and this is for a steel segment.
As we made the call, the company announced last quarter that we would be approaching the above 30 MW - 100 MW segment independently, following an amicable resolution of our joint venture with General Electric in days previous. It is extremely commendable that we've been able to make such big strides in this segment in such a short period of time. We hope that these orders will be the first of many, as the company has a renewed global focus and ambition in this segment, and these orders will further strengthen our credibility in this lucrative segment of 30 MW-100 MW. It is important to highlight that on a nine-month basis, the company has achieved an order booking of over INR 9 billion, which is a 40% increase over the entire FY 2021 order booking of INR 6.4 billion.
This sets the tone and provides very good visibility for a robust top line and bottom line and overall financial growth for FY 2023 and beyond. With our healthy inquiry pipeline, the anticipated demand, we remain confident that the order booking momentum will continue in the coming quarters and will create a sustained growth for the company beyond FY 2023. As of December 31, 2020, while the total consolidated outstanding order book stood at INR 9.25 billion, 42% higher than the previous year.
The company achieved the total order booking, as I've already told you, of INR 3.21 billion in the current quarter, which is the highest that we have seen, and this compares against INR 1.56 billion in Q3 of FY 2021, an increase of over 105%. As you could tell from the investor brief which has been mailed to all of you, the export order booking really contributed to this growth. Export product order booking. The order booking in the nine- months stands at approximately INR 9 billion, and this is a growth of over 89% on a year-on-year basis. The domestic order booking for the quarter was at INR 820 million, which is lower by 25% as compared to last year.
However, in the nine-month period, this order booking stands at INR 5 billion, which is a 50% increase on a year-on-year basis. The domestic outstanding order book stands at INR 5.05 billion, which is 7% higher than the previous year. The export order booking during the quarter was at INR 2.39 billion, which is 415% higher than the nine-month period of export order booking, which is higher by 415% on a year-on-year basis. For the nine-month period, it stands at INR 3.94 billion, which is an increase of 184% compared to the nine-month period of the previous year.
The aftermarket segment has shown a growth in order booking of INR 500 million for the quarter, which is largely flat when compared with the corresponding period of the previous year. The aftermarket turnover was INR 577 million, at a growth of 2% over the previous year. The aftermarket, as I've told you, contributed to 25%-26% of the total turnover in Q3 FY 2022, which is down from 33% in the previous year. It is even more commendable for us to maintain and the order booking has improved significantly to INR 2.71 billion, which is higher by 155% when compared with the corresponding period of the previous year.
The product segment turnover was INR 1.67 billion during the quarter, an increase of 43% over the previous year. Ladies and gentlemen, this growth has been possible due to very active and very concerted efforts in marketing. We had not been constrained in the previous quarter to the extent that we may have been in this quarter with Omicron, but the inquiry generation that we have seen in this market has been quite commendable. In terms of the overall market update, we've seen a growth in the nine-month period in the domestic market, a growth of approximately 96% in the market below 30 MW, and a fall of about 7% in the market above 30 MW. Overall, we've seen a growth in this market of about 25% over the nine-month period on a blended basis.
The international market is also somewhat flat for the nine-month period, and therefore our results for the nine-month period are extremely commendable given this backdrop. Inquiry generation, though, for this current quarter for the domestic market has grown by 23%, and in the international segment has grown by 68%. This all augurs very well for our order booking in Q4 of this current financial year, as well as for the periods of the next financial year. In this current quarter, we were able to secure 27 orders in the export market, four from Indonesia, four from South Korea, three from Central America, two from South America, one in Bangladesh, one in Nigeria, one in Austria, one in the United Kingdom, one in the Philippines, one in Thailand, one in Hong Kong, and one in ECFIA countries.
This just gives you an idea of our reach, where we have an installed base in over 75 countries and active inquiries in over 110 countries. Other aspects of this company from design and development continue to perform exceedingly well, and it's only due to developments on our engineering side that we've been able to offer the products into the market that our customers require. Be this in terms of high efficiency blade path-based solutions on steam turbines or API turbines, a variety of different engineering solutions that we are providing to our rotating equipment customers, both from the product side as well as the aftermarket. Our R&D in new energy or ultimate energy solutions and technologies such as supercritical CO2 cycles that continues to make progress, and we are on track with our commercialization and prototype timelines.
The outlook for the company, given the growth that we've seen in the order booking, is very robust. We have an outlook for Q4, which would be similar to an extent in the performance of Q3, but we believe this places us in a position to really target FY 2023 with a very steady and sure footing of having a very robust order booking, very robust visibility in sales and future order booking build in Q1 and Q2 of the next financial year.
The board in this current board meeting has approved a CapEx plan of INR 35 crore for us to expand one bay at our Sompura facility, which will expand capacity to cater to this growth, which will be largely based on testing and assembly capacity that we need for the higher throughput, which we anticipate in the coming two years. This is backed by a significant growth in orders in terms of number of turbines that we will be dispatching as well as the megawatt capacities. The board will look proactively at partnerships with local service companies who already associate with us so as we can improve our sales on a local basis and improve our presence and our visibility in front of our customers on a very proactive basis. With that, ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to open the floor for questions. Back to you, moderator.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Anyone who would like to ask a question, please press star and one at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the questions assemble. The first question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Congrats on a good earnings flow.
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Swaminathan. May I request you to come on the handset mode? Your audio is not very clear.
Is it better now?
Yes, it's exactly.
Yeah. First of all, congrats on the robust orders-
Thank you. Thanks, Ravi.
Continued over the third quarter also. Can you talk more about the international markets? How quickly are those markets expanding? Which geographies are seeing good growth? What is driving growth? What has changed this year vis-a-vis last year? Then on the domestic market also, if you can give some commentary. This year, this quarter, it has been slightly soft in terms of order booking in the domestic market, but I recognize that the nine-month numbers are still up. If you can give commentary on the domestic market in terms of segment-wide also would be great, both international and domestic.
Yes. You know, I'm gonna get in Mr. S. N. Prasad, who can comment a little bit more in terms of where he's seeing visibility on the orders. Before I get him in, I'd like to say that the export market, like I told you earlier, in the nine-month period, has declined by about 7% on a year-earlier basis. Even though we may not. This is based on what we have seen at Kirloskar. We do not have full visibility in the export market.
Despite that, we believe that we are increasing our market share as we move ahead. On the domestic side, we maintain our market share at historical levels in excess of 50%. That is something that we aim to maintain. We will continue to work towards. Where we see demand from a segment basis is typically in the area that we've spoken about in previous quarters. One is, of course, the renewable energy demand from biomass-based IPPs or solid municipal waste incineration plants. These largely we see in countries of Europe, city states like Hong Kong and certain more developed countries where there's a focus on renewable energy.
We've also seen an uptick in gross fixed capital formation in industries such as cement, waste heat recovery, steel especially. This is similar not only for India but international as well. We are seeing similar. This is where you have international pricing of hard commodities which are easily tradable. The capacity constraints have come down globally. I'll let Prasad come in to give you a little bit more visibility, because what is important is that we are seeing this continue. This is built up already within, I would say one month of Q4. The visibility that we have coming into order book of FY 2023 also is equally robust, and we believe that we should be able to sustain this level of performance with order booking on average through the next coming year as well.
Got it.
Prasad, if you could come in and give some visibility please. Prasad, are you on the line?
I would request, members of the management on the line to unmute your line please.
While I think that they come online, the market is very broad-based, Ravi, from an international perspective. Like I told you, we received 27 orders this current quarter itself. They do stem from steel. Like I told you, this is very strategic order for us because steel is a large capacity market and something that's seeing a growth not only in India but in all markets where they do have capacity. We see that as a positive for us, not only in terms of being able to provide high technology solutions, but assuming we have a higher export of the kinds of sales, our margins on those products are significantly higher, and in excess of double of the domestic margins. We're happy when we're able to see good export uptake. This is also backed by good customer service, order intake.
We see that not only do our spares and servicing offer good growth opportunity to our refurbishment, where we are providing solutions for rotating equipment on a broad basis, as well as third-party aftermarket solutions continue to grow as we expand our presence into these local markets.
Got it, sir. Go ahead.
Prasad, are you there now?
Yes, sir. We are there now. We can hear that.
Yes, please. Can you answer that question with some visibility?
Yes, sir, I missed the question.
The question is about how you see visibility of orders, both domestically as well as export.
Yes, sir. Yes. The visibility from the inquiry pipeline wise on the domestic, we have a good traction. Especially from the industries like, cement, pharma, steel, and distillery segments are dominating the inquiry pipeline. Even our order booking also, the spread is from similar segments, domestic like steel, pulp and paper, pharma, waste to energy, sort of thing. Especially international inquiries, we have a good order booking as well as inquiry pipeline from steel, then waste to energy and waste heat recovery based, cement, applications and distilleries and food processing. Based on the inquiry pipeline, as we mentioned in investor brief about the increase in inquiry pipeline. We are quite bullish on that thing for the next year and next quarter also.
Moreover, the overall product basket is increased, meaning with up to 30 MW-100 MW increase apart from the API inquiry pipeline. With that, we are quite confident for Q4 as well as FY 2023. Got it. Thanks. My second question is with respect to the margins. You had already touched upon the same, Nikhil. We have received orders, both in terms of exports and also on the higher rating, the 30 MW-100 MW. Historically, as you had mentioned, the margins in this are much, much higher than the regular margins. At a blended basis at a company level, what might be today as 20% EBITDA margin, can we see 300 basis points-400 basis points expansion over the next couple of years, because of this high margin orders?
You know the revenue tracked up, it's difficult from a quarter-on-quarter basis. If I look at a year-on-year basis, I'll give you a little bit of a greater insight into that. Domestic margins are much lower than our export margins. Therefore, the percentage of sales that we have from export will of course contribute more significantly towards margins. Equally, the contribution of aftermarket in general, be that domestic or international, that doesn't make a difference. That contributes more significantly towards margins. Also, there is a question about operating leverage and the fact that the higher our turnover is that we've seen this quarter. This is a very good quarter to analyze that where we have seen impact of increased raw material pricing.
For example, we've seen our high chrome ingot pricing increase over 50%, 55% in the last six to eight months. These are factors, impacts that we have to take. We work with our suppliers for long term, on long term contracts, and we have to live with them. It's not as if we have to live with them when they have price increases, but when prices fall, we also take the benefit of that. In this current quarter where we did see price increases, that is limited to an extent of only 55% of turnover, despite the fact that we had a product mix which is heavily skewed towards domestic sales. Arun Mote can provide a little more insight into our initiatives to ensure that we at least maintain the margins that we have right now. Arun?
Yeah. Good morning to you. As you know, the margins at the sales level depend on the raw material and other expenses. The raw material, our supply chain is a very well-oiled machinery, and we have suppliers who have been dedicated for years together. We have been working with them for the last 30- 35 years. Many of them are our employees. We are continuing efforts with them and also independently to lower this material costs. We are sitting with them, helping them negotiate their raw material costs to ensure that the overall subcontract products which come to us are at a competitive rate. We are value engineering and some of their subassemblies, we are sharing with them the cost benefits that they get and we get.
All these exercises are going on, and our intention is to ensure that the input costs, not only the raw material, but the input cost for the final assembly, comes down. We have been pretty successful, as you know, from the past records. We expect that in FY 2023 and 2024, we will continue to do the same thing because we don't expect the raw material prices as such would come down now so quickly. If at all they come, there will be some kind of leveling off.
Got it.
Any other question to you?
Yeah. Thanks. My last question, sir. I mean, our order book has grown year-on-year almost like 40%. Next year, at least 20% kind of growth is something that is there on the cards?
Actually, our ambition is for higher than that because we're seeing good visibility in all our segments. You see what we've historically seen with Triveni Turbine has been the below 30 MW segment. While that has seen some growth based on higher fixed capital formation, it is really the contribution of two other market segments, which is the API market segment, which we made a very small entry into, and it's a competitive market, it's a high margin market. We believe that that is a big growth market for 3 MW turbine, as well as the 30 MW- 100 MW segment. All of this leads us to have confidence that we should be able to maintain a good order booking runway, which will ultimately contribute to the numbers.
Got it, sir. Yeah. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all participants, we would request you to please limit your question to three at a time. Should you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshit Patel from Equirus . Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for this opportunity. Sir, my first question would be,
Can you please come closer to the phone?
Yes, I can hear it now. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you.
What would have been the market size in India for less than 30 MW steam turbines for the first nine months of FY 2022, and why, and where do you see that going for this full- year, FY 2023? That would be my first.
The market, you know, in nine months has been approximately 800 odd MW. We anticipate that we would end the year with a proportionate growth as we've seen in the first nine months. This is approximately, like I've said earlier, about 90%, 96% growth year-on-year. The larger market size of 30 MW-100 MW has seen a decline in India. On a blended basis, because now as a company, since the market overall up to 100 MW, we've seen a growth in the market of approximately 5% only. We believe that this will continue, which is something that the order bookings and the inquiry pipeline estimates have been quite robust. We think that this will continue.
We see no reason for it to fall. There's ample liquidity. There's good momentum in terms of people willing to place orders. There seems to be some hiccups will happen with COVID here and there, but largely, I think that we're quite bullish.
Right. Thank you. Sir, secondly, on our very strong order intake in the first nine months, how has the pricing moved both in domestic and the overseas market? Has the entire growth come from higher volumes only or pricing too would have played a part over here?
No, it's been mainly a volume growth. Pricing plays a role, but this is very difficult to say since we make an engineer-to-order product, which not only changes in terms of configuration of the steam turbine itself, but auxiliaries and the balance of plant which go along with the steam turbine also change in terms of scope. In general, pricing will depend on how the contract is framed and what the customer wants to place the order for in terms of scope of supply. The margins is a better question to stick on because that is something that is predefined at the time of us closing the purchase order.
What we've seen there is that, there has been some pressure from a raw material price perspective in terms of order booking margins, but that is mitigated with a lot of the efforts that RML talked about in terms of being able to value engineer, work with suppliers to reduce costs once orders are placed to ensure that we at least maintain our margins going forward. This is despite the fact that having a better product mix in terms of execution, which may happen in the coming year because of a higher percentage of exports or percentage of sales will contribute also positively towards the margins.
Right. Sure. Lastly, out of the INR 9 billion of order intake for the first nine months, how much would have come from API and the 30 MW-100 MW segment? Where do you see that going?
I don't think we're going to be giving those data points because it's competitive to a large extent. Suffice to say that we're seeing that the API segment is not large enough for it to be reported independently. 30 MW-100 MW, just because the size and capacity of these turbines are larger, it's going to afford me higher value, and so therefore they would contribute more. In this current quarter, the 30 MW-100 MW orders that we did talk about at the beginning of my introductory remarks did play a disproportionate role in terms of the value. We believe that this is a market segment that we're gonna be approaching and trying to get orders on a every quarter basis. The need to start distinguishing between different market segments would be very difficult for us to do.
Understood, sir. Those were my questions. I'll come back in the queue as and when I want.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ahmed from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I'll break down my question into exports and domestic business. Sir, on the export side, there is pickup in the more than 30 MW segment, and considering GE has exited, can you please throw some light on how, what kind of challenges we are facing maybe on the technical side? Definitely on the other side, there is lot of help in terms of doing business with more independents. In that context, can you help us, you know, gain understanding on how we are gaining traction so quickly in the 30 MW-100 MW segment?
Okay. Let me answer that question in a different way because I really don't want to answer it based on GE because very frankly they are. I have no comments on that aspect. Suffice to say we've been following the company, so we know that the joint venture ran a certain way and it had a certain performance. We would always our expectations are that we could have done better. From a technology perspective, Triveni's technology is world-leading. Our efficiency levels, our cost levels, our supply chain, bar none, second to none. Very frankly, we have all confidence and the JV in its confidence, but in its execution of it executed 50% of its orders on Triveni technology.
Very frankly, we've had confidence in our technology for a very long time. We have installed this already in our technology, so it's not as if these orders can come based on anything which is not founded in practical installations. That is from a technology perspective, we're extremely confident. On a general market basis, we need to continue with our developments to ensure that we continue offering our customers the most efficient schemes, blade parts, and whatever other configurations they may need in terms of injection or extraction for their applications. As we know, Triveni Turbine is a provider of both heat and power solutions. When it comes to those requirements, we are very aptly placed to be able to provide solutions to both industrial as well as renewable energy clients in all market segments, below 30 MW . What is your second question? Will you repeat that?
This was the main question only. The second part is, how will the margin profile of this business differ from our current business, 30 MW-100 MW?
No, margin is not different. It's a question of domestic versus international. International tends to give us over double margins than domestic margins.
Okay. What has been the key reason why we have been able to gain the traction in this market so quickly? Like, I think in last three, six months only we have got this sudden traction. What are the specific, any reason or it is just that.
No, the reason is that the team is raring to go. We have great confidence in our ability. Our sales network is very primed to take these opportunities on. We have our performance in the below 30 MW space. Last year, last calendar year, we were number one in this space in terms of number of installations. Therefore this could be easily translated to confidence above 30 MW also. We have the appropriate product and appropriate pricing, so there's no reason for us not to go and be aggressive in getting the orders.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Just one question on the domestic side. When we say we cater to the steel segment, so is it sponge iron or which part of steel sector do you cater to?
Prasad, will you answer that question please?
Yes, sir. Yes. We cater to both the sponge iron, pig iron, as well as the integrated steel plant. In that also again, kiln gases, blast furnace gases and the waste heat recovery. Across we cover the complete, integrated steel plant segment.
Majority of these applications are for waste heat recovery from the steel segment, much like it is happening in the cement segment as well, where we're seeing more growth on brownfield expansion than greenfield expansion to lower cost of production.
Sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Babel from Subhkam Ventures. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Sir, you did mention about the fact that the current momentum mainly from the order inflow side can continue in the coming quarters and even in FY 2023. Sir, just could you just give us some more idea about, you know, so suppose if you end the current year at around INR 1,200 crore of order inflows, you know, if Q4 is similar to Q3, so if you end up somewhere around INR 1,200 crore order inflow. On that base also, can you grow at 20%-30% in terms of inflows in the coming year, is what you are trying to say?
Well, our intent is that. We have to wait and see. The fact is we are setting up our capabilities and capacities. I think Arun maybe could talk a little bit more in terms of what the plans are for the company in terms of recruitment and international expansion, et cetera. Just to get more visibility into how it can situate in market segments.
Yeah. One is about the plant capacity, which Mr. Nikhil Sawhney has already explained. We are going for additional bay that would substantially augment our capacity, and we should be able to meet much higher levels of numbers as well as megawatt production. That's already on the way, and we would succeed soon completing. As far as HR is concerned, due to COVID, we missed one batch of graduate trainees and the initial hires, for which we have already done now, and those people will be available. This year again, we'll be running the batch of graduate training engineers and diploma trainees so that they would be added. That would be at the initial starting levels. Then we are looking at some senior persons joining us from within as well as from other engineering industries.
We are looking at sales people who are across engineering industries. Some of them have joined and some would be joining, including different nationalities as and when the time comes. The HR.
I think the point, yeah, the point is that we have a very aggressive HR plan to be able to add capacity so that we will cater to this growth. This is something that we have to invest into. The sales don't come just by themselves.
Just a ballpark idea again, sir. Are you looking at somewhere around INR 1,400 crore-INR 1,500 crore of revenue by FY 2024, given the current momentum in inflows and execution?
We don't really give visibility like that, but I think the numbers are something that we believe are achievable.
Okay. Sir, my second question is, what is preventing you to get good orders from the API segment, since you already have all the building blocks ready from the product approval to the infra and everything? What is preventing the scalability in order inflows in the API segment?
It's nothing preventing us. It is a question of those orders coming up for execution. There's a degree of fear from customers about Make in India. That is a hindrance that we have to overcome, which we've tried to do in the power generating side, PG side, for quite a period of time. We are confident that we will overcome this over slowly. We have a small market share right now in a very large market, and we think that it will continue to grow on that. Prasad, would you like to add any visibility as to how we are attacking API?
Yes, sir. Yes. API wise, we have a strong inquiry pipeline, and our acceptability is there by all international consultants, EPCs and OEMs, and by seeing the inquiry pipeline build up and our acceptance across the globe. We are quite bullish on API segment. API segment order finalization time cycles are quite large because even though the end customer like a refinery, finalizers are OEMs, there is a little time lag there. That's the only time lag issue. Next quarter or coming year, we'll see API a good contribution in the overall order bookings here.
The margins in that segment is again in line with your export margins?
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. It's a lucrative segment for us. What could contribute to our growth as we move forward? Those are aftermarket. Sachin, maybe you could add a little bit about how we are seeing the growth in the coming year in terms of order bookings and local market segments.
Yeah. Good afternoon. We are seeing very good traction on inquiry generation in both domestic and export markets for customer care. The aftermarket business, we are hopeful of substantially increasing our order booking in the coming quarters, including next year. There are many efforts we are making in this regard. We are adding our resources on the ground. We are increasing our presence overseas, and we believe that closer collaboration with our execution partners overseas will create more value for this.
Sir, my last question is that the cash balance has been increasing continuously in your balance sheet. Then in the last quarters, you had mentioned that you'll look into either utilizing that cash internally and if you don't find any such utilization, you'll pay it off so that the return ratios and all those are not impacted.
I don't think we said that because what we did say is that the board hasn't taken any decision, and unfortunately it's still the factual position that the board hasn't taken any decision on capital allocation.
Okay.
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Babel. I would request you to conclude, please.
No, let the questions continue. It's all right.
Okay, sure.
Yeah. Is there any inorganic opportunity, I mean, possible in your segment?
Well, to answer that query, of course, there are opportunities, but is it something that we would consider is a different matter. We believe that we are at a technological level where no inorganic opportunity is going to help supplement our technical capability. Really, we don't think that is a direct route for us to grow in a big way. Smaller opportunities that may add capabilities which may not be very expensive is something that we may look at. I think the board hasn't considered anything concrete right now.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much. I'll get back in the queue if I have more questions.
Thank you. The next is from the line of Navin Wadhwani from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations to the management for a very good performance. My question, Nikhil, is that last two years have been very difficult for most companies. For a company like us which has a larger share of exports business, do you believe that there is a requirement of additional feet on ground, both in terms of sales and in terms of installation? I think Sachin did speak about hiring additional resources, but whatever that comes, international or domestic.
The question is what is the need for adding resources and capacity? Is that the question which you're looking for?
No. In terms of, yeah, in terms of more feet on ground for sales and installations in the international geographies. Because travel restrictions have been very effective.
You know, more definitely. No, definitely. We know the fact is that we need to hire people who not only have a greater local connect, who have relationships that they come with in existing geographies and industries. Therefore, that is very much part of our very immediate plans. It's not a way to de-risk. It's more of a way to actually expand growth opportunities. We have had some success with this, and we think that is a good way for us to grow both from a product sales perspective as well as from an aftermarket capability to be closer to customers. Both will be required. To that extent, we have budgeted all of these as costs and we still assume that our margin expectations will be consistent.
On a year-on-year comparison, we see that your raw material sales have risen to 55.3% from a shade lower than 50%. What percentage of this in your view has contributed due to a mix change, more domestic, less of an aftermarket? What percentage is actually impact of the input cost inflation? Are you actually seeing that in the orders that you are getting, you are able to mitigate this and go back to the raw material to sales level of 50% that we were seeing in the previous years?
You know, that's a very difficult question that you've asked because, again, as I think another one of your colleagues has already asked, our sales is dependent on order intake, and which is dependent on which, because of the nature of the market, we don't know if it's going to be international, domestic, also when in which quarter things are going to be dispatched. In general, when we are accepting orders, we have a good idea as to the costs that will be incurred on executing that job because of either long-term contracts that we have for certain supplies, long lead items such as copper casings and castings and the forgings, or certain balance of plant equipment that we routinely buy.
We have a good idea when we get to the negotiating table where prices lie. As you'd imagine, the number of components that go into a steam turbine both in terms of the plant steam turbine itself, as well as the larger balance of plant, which include the generators, gearboxes, panels, electrical system, control systems, et cetera, will all get impacted by higher commodity prices, especially steel and copper. To that extent, there is definitely going to be an impact in terms of the costs that we have incurred.
I think what Arun had alluded to earlier also is that while these prices may soften a little bit, it's difficult to imagine that they will or we're not budgeting as such any steep increase from here going forward, but neither are we budgeting any steep fall from here going forward. As it currently stands, when we are negotiating for orders, depending on the competitive intensity of that order itself, but we try to maintain the margin levels and the strategy that we have in terms of market share and market dominance within different segments. As we currently stand, the order book that we have is consistent with our historical margin profile, which gives us visibility in terms of once we execute these orders, we will be in a good space in the coming quarters, Navin.
Got you. Just last, sort of the last question from my side. We have seen about 90% increase in the order flows in the nine months, and with the lag we will see that translate into revenues. Could you speak about your supply chain? Because globally all across industrial companies have been talking about supply chain bottlenecks, and especially on the electronics and the semiconductor side. Are we seeing that our supply chain is geared to ramp up so quickly?
Okay. I'll ask Arun to comment on that. Our supply chain base is broken up into two, three components. One is subcontractors which would do part work and some machining, et cetera, which allows us to have less capital employed on our balance sheet and get them to do dedicated work. The rest are vendors who may actually do some more value-added work, and the other will be suppliers who end up supplying their product directly to customer sites. Arun, could you give an idea in terms of how much are local and how much do you depend on foreign supply chain for this and how you are looking to grow?
Yeah. Yes. Our foreign supplies are always less than 5%. The semiconductors and the printed circuit boards and the other circuitry, that electronic circuitry that you're talking of doesn't affect us much, because that percentage is lower and that is taken care of by the equipment supplier like governors, like other control instruments. They are the people who have to manage it. In the last 1.5 years, we haven't faced much difficulty from any of them. As far as the domestic supply is concerned, it's perfect. More or less perfect. We haven't had any issues. Whenever we had lockdowns and all, of course, there have been logistical issues and supply chain issues.
We have all overcome them and our production is absolutely normal.
Actually, the question was that the 90% growth we have seen in the orders, we might see 30%-40% growth in the revenues or execution in the coming quarters. Is the supply chain okay to ramp up at such a fast pace?
It's already done. Because we have been seeing this trend for the last six to eight months, so adequate steps have been taken. We are already on the expansion mode as far as various capacities are concerned, and it will be an ongoing exercise for next three to six months. So it hasn't happened suddenly. We have been foreseeing it.
Sure. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Investment is from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Jethani from BOI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on a great set of numbers. My first question was on this 3,200 MW category. A few questions on this side. Which are the industries we cater to in this segment? And what gives you confidence that going ahead, the growth in this segment will be way higher versus what we had seen earlier during the GE era? Third on this part itself, how aggressive is the Siemens or any other large player in this segment, and what will be their market share and what we envisage to capture in the coming years?
I'll start from the reverse so to give you a better idea. I think the market is dominated by large multinational manufacturers like Siemens in this segment. The market segment, both domestically and internationally, is a little bit higher in the 30 MW-100 MW segment. In India, it's slightly lower in the 30 MW-100 MW segment and below 30 MW. This is really the profile of the customers and the industries that we cater to. The larger the industries are, the higher the capacity of the requirement for good steam and power will be. The largest requirement of course comes from metal and steel, which is for their main power consumption.
When we look at it from a perspective of all the gases that emanate from a waste heat recovery perspective, that is a market segment that definitely is above 30 MW. We see very consistent demand in chemicals, both in India, where we have orders also in the chemical segment for higher than that capacity. We have paper and pulp, which require high extraction and large paper companies also have placed orders on us in this market segment. You would not see large food processing distilleries, et cetera, in this space. You would see waste heat, waste-to-energy as well as biomass-based IPPs in this market segment. This is similar to the market segment that we cater to below 30 MW.
We believe that our sales network, et cetera, is something that is capable to go out and leverage this in an aggressive manner. We will be aggressive here to gain some market share. Our cost levels also are quite robust, so that we think that we'll be able to maintain margins despite the fact that we would be aggressive. I don't wanna go back into the performance of the joint venture. That's something that's over now. We believe that we should. Our ambition is to outperform whatever we did perform under the joint venture.
Okay. Okay.
Does that answer your question or would you like more clarity on certain things?
Sir, I would like to have more clarity on. One is the addition of sales force, etc., to drive that 30 MW-100 MW. The seed was there with us earlier. We had confidence of international business being coming to us via tie-up to GE. Everything was always there on the platter. I guess the sales were flat for quite some time over there. It could be the market not growing or whatever the reasons could be. Now going ahead, apart from sales force, what is the one or two thing which you would like to highlight where, okay, now I can see a 20% or 30% growth from here or whatever number it is. What gives you that confidence you will grow at a higher pace versus the last three years or five years?
The main thing is that we start from a low base. Besides that, it's a fact that now I have the possibility to go back to explain how the joint venture works, is that international sales were handled by our partner, and we handle domestic sales as well as certain sugar orders internationally. What we find is that the focus that we have in the market and given our structure of sales, which is aided by an agent network which has deep-rooted connects and relationships with customers, aids quite considerably in being able to not only for us to get visibility into the market in terms of where the orders are, but then to be able to go and aggressively close those orders.
The structure is different also, not only the number of people, and also the focus. The focus is the most important thing. Because it wasn't like as earlier we were losing or we did not have visibility into orders, then we were quoting to those orders.
Okay. Got it, sir. That's helpful. Second question was, say today we do capacity of say around 700 MW-800 MW. Say FY 2023-24, considering the growth in the market and we have demand for 1.3 GW-1.4 GW, with the current capacity, are we in a position to cater to that demand or we'll have to do incremental CapEx?
Arun, can you answer this question?
We have built in a flexibility to expand our works quickly and augment the supply chain. We will always be making effort to see that we have at least 10%-20% of the excess capacity, because this capacity doesn't cost extra. We will have some breathing time in case there is a certain spurt of order, and we should be able to take on more orders in future. We are pretty flexible on it. I don't expect much of capacity issues if the market suddenly goes up.
I think another thing that you should keep in mind is, there are two capacities that we have to talk about. One is the capacity that we have in-house, and as you can see from our balance sheet that really what Triveni Turbine does is it manufactures the high value, IP sensitive components in-house. Then it does a lot of assembly and testing, and quality control. The capacity that we have internally is for quality control, testing, assembly, et cetera, is what we will be adding on at this point in time, through our CapEx proposals. Even in manufacturing side, we need to ensure that our vendors, our contractors, et cetera, have capacity as well. That we monitor to ensure that they have at least 50% extra capacity from what our requirement is. Is there time to move on to the next question? If we have time.
Thank you. The next question from the line of Hiten Boricha from Sequent Investments . Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. My question is again on the capacity addition which you highlighted earlier. Just wanted to understand, can you throw some more color, like what is our current utilization and how, by how much we are looking to expand our capacity?
See, again, like I said, we will be expanding the capacity in terms of volume from monthly volume output by about 33%. This is more from a testing, assembly and testing perspective. What we believe is that this supports us handle growth and capacity to deal with the variations that we may require in terms of customer expectations of dispatch in any particular month. Very frankly, our capacity utilization is if you take the number of machines, the number of machines vary very drastically in terms of value. It's difficult to put value to capacity as a metric, but number of machines wise, we have the capacity now to do, I would say. Arun, can you give an idea as to how many machines could we do and how many have we taken it up to?
Machines per year, or you can say per month, we have a capacity to make 15 machines a month. It is flexible. About five, six machines can be added easily. With this expansion, we will be closer to about 20-25 machines. That's what we are looking at.
Okay. What kind of CapEx we need to spend on this?
We already said that. Nikhil Sawhney has a tool for this.
INR 35 crore is what the board approved.
Okay. Sir, one last question. What CapEx we have already in nine months FY 2022?
The CapEx for nine months is INR 12 crore.
INR 12 crore for nine months. Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vimal Sampat, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, good afternoon. Most of the questions have been answered. One is just one or two small things. One is on the cash side. Now when do we expect in next year, FY 2023, some action? Do we expect something in 2023? Second is on this 30 MW-100 MW capacity turbines. I mean, how is, I mean, total market size compared to our 0-30 MW? Is it double? What is the size of that market opportunity?
The opportunity from macro data sets that we see is approximately 1.2x internationally than the below 30 MW segment. In India, it's about 80% of the below 30 MW segment. This is a general trend. Of course, our visibility in the wind turbine market is not fully there, and so we don't participate in that full market. Our intent is to get there in future. On the cash question, like I'd mentioned to another one of the actually your colleagues, is that the board hasn't taken any decision. They're cognizant of the fact that this dampens our return metrics. The board hasn't taken any decision. As soon as they take a decision, we will inform you.
Yeah. Just one last. What we see with the INR 35 crore CapEx, we will be able to expand our capacity by 33%. The way we are growing, I think in next four to five years, we will be at least three to four times in size. What is your perception, sir?
No, I think in next six to 12 years in those type of conjectures, our attempt is to grow consistently, and to ensure that.
No, because see, we have 30 MW-100 MW. Earlier we had only 0-30. Now we'll have 30 MW-100 MW, then API and then the supercritical, et cetera, et cetera. So the addressable market will shoot up. Yeah, but I'm talking of four, five years down the line. Our addressable market will shoot up.
You started at 3%-4%, then you say 4%-5%. I mean, I think the fact is we can give you, regardless of the order book visibility that we have coming into FY 2023 and for FY 2023 itself also is quite robust. I think we've given an indication as to how we look at that. Looking more forward from there, it depends on so many other factors, that it may form, maybe a little bit conjecture. Our efforts are on strategically to aim to grow this market and have greater participation. I think I wouldn't like to answer the question in terms of-
Right. No, thank you. Thank you very much. This gives a good clarity. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Babel from Subhkam Ventures . Please go ahead.
Sir, just a follow-up. Given the large opportunities which are now present in the overseas market, where do you see the share of exports revenues in your total revenue in the next two to three years timeframe?
First we're looking at the order book. We aimed in FY 2023 to take this back up to 50%, so that will then reflect onto sales.
Okay. Do you feel that structurally, the share of export will only increase given the opportunity sizes available in the overseas market, and once the order inflow fraction also comes in the API segment?
Yes. India is a large economy for this in terms of capital formation that comes. We want to be competitive at that front from a global perspective. The global market is larger than just India. We have always been very optimistic in terms of growing our presence internationally. We did have some hiccups a couple of years ago in terms of hitting a ceiling, but we think that by adding human resources and other means by which we get closer to customers as well as expanding the addressable market, that this percentage should go up.
Okay. Sir, lastly, ceteris paribus, assuming the raw material prices, I mean, move in a range-bound manner in the coming years and assuming that your share of exports is at around 50%, which you are targeting. In that scenario, considering the operating leverage which you would be having with the kind of growth which you are envisaging. In that scenario, where do you see your operating margins to settle at? I mean, would it be like in the 23%-24% range, 25%- 22%? Where you see that in that scenario?
You know, we see some things that are aftermarket are also growing quite consistently, and that adds a good contribution to us. We will incur more overheads to have an increased order book, so that will then be compensated by higher turnover. This operating leverage will also get utilized to an extent. We think that from a product side, getting an order and then having a lifecycle value of that customer is extremely beneficial to us. We get spares orders from customers over a period of the life of the turbine, which is as long as 35-40 years. This is something that very frankly, our competitors who have lower cost of capital end up using quite strategically to be able to just acquire customers. We of course look at them in distinct P&L.
We have higher cost of capital in India, and so we need to make margins on these sales, and we've been quite consistent in showing these margins. What the end result is in terms of EBITDA margins, we try to maximize that to the extent possible. The competitive intensity changes quarter- to- quarter. Having said that, our cost structure is very good. Overall, if I give you a general outlook, we think that we're comfortable at these margin levels that we're at right now. We think that, given the share mix that we may have next year with higher export as a percentage of sales than this current year, some of the pressures that we may have had in terms of raw material increases or higher overhead won't be there also. With higher turnover, we'll be quite optimistic.
I think that I'm giving a very roundabout answer, but I think that's all I can give at this point.
Okay, that's helpful, sir. Sir, just one more small question. The growth in aftermarket in the coming years would be in line with your, I mean, growth in order inflows in the aftermarket segment will be in line with your overall order inflow growth? I mean, the share will maintain?
I think we're more optimistic on order flow increasing in the coming year from the aftermarket in the current year.
Okay. That's helpful, sir. Thank you so much, sir.
Thanks. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining this call. Sorry for running over a little bit. I'd like to just leave you with the fact that we at Triveni Turbine have weathered this Omicron pandemic quite well, Omicron lockdown. Everyone on this call has actually, I think, already had it, and we're quite confident in terms of being able to show the results for this current year and the coming years. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Triveni Turbine Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.