Q2 19/20

Nov 7, 2019

Quarterly report

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY20 earnings conference call of Kiwani Turbine Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star 10 0 on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to mister Risha Farah of CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Q2 and H1 FY Twenty earnings conference call for Traveenita Vineland Limited. We have with us on the call today, Mr. Drew Soni, chairman, chairman and Managing Director. Mister Nikhil Soni, vice chairman and managing director, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite which was mailed to everybody earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all invitees, It may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will start this call with opening remarks from the management. Following which we will have an interactive question and answer session. I now invite mister Drew Soni to share some perspectives with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the H1q2fy20 earnings call. It's a very good morning here, even though the the the the small leather and the pollution is a little less, but our adults I think make up for that. We have, an exceptionally good quarter and an exceptionally good, half year. We view we've achieved the highest ever turnover and VAT for the quarter and the high and the half year in the history. Of turbine. And this is quite considerable, considerable considering the overall environment in domestically and Internationally. Our income from operations have a growth of 19% 4,600,000,000. And the VAT has an exceptional growth of 65%. These are on account of, improved margins, improved turnover, and of course, the reduced tax provisioning from the recent changes in the corporate tax. The improvement in margins is in line with what one has mentioned, during the previous earnings calls and it's back to the levels that we feel we can sustain over the long term. And what are the expectations I hope so too. And, these are, as you know, by exceptional in the a capital goods industry, and especially in the rotating machinery industry, not just in India, but Internationally for both products and overall company. We I would like to just take you through some of the points that we have right now and also then, discuss the future outlook. Which is, very bright and good, considering that the environment is still quite, tense in the international fare. And is a domestic fear in the power generation area. Our outstanding order book at 6,970,000,000 is is very good. We've declared a 50% interim dividend And we see very good traction, to sustain this, optimistic forecast not just for the balance part of the current FY 'twenty, but into FY 'twenty one, both for order booking and exclusion is concerned. Just to look at the domestic market first, our main areas of, orders and, in the future, are in the distillery segment that you know, there's a very big push in India for, ethanol, And this is really taking off, government have got extremely good pricing, and, they have an encouragement on, on funding, subsidized funding for the industry. There's also, encouraged the oil company to come out with tenders and a very large tender has already come out, and it will be supplied. So, this augurs very well, And, besides this, we are seeing very good traction in the pulp and paper both in the half year that has gone by and in the inquiries that we have in hand. The sector that has also been good, sustaining the process sector, which is mainly in the chemicals, farmer, and a little bit in fertilizer. Inquiry based on this also during the 1st half year and Q2 has been very good. Inquiries are okay in the textile sector, but I think they're taking time for converting, and that this is very do the export push, which government is now focusing on to, so we think that this will also be a a little bit of a growth sector, in the next 6 months and definitely in, in, FY 'twenty one. Internationally, our, our concentration has been good. And this is because we are diversified geographically, very large diversification, orders in 70 countries. And the main sectors for us internationally, are there, which have waste to energy, biomass, waste heat recovery and surprisingly pulp and paper as well. Now we have ordered from these and have very good inquiries on these. These are sectors where we believe we can sustain our growth. And there is, it's over a wide area. We've seen for ourselves and, remind her for inquiries from Centric And South America. She's been a very nice based with not too large there. And so that's very encouraging because we have seen very good traction and order intake. We have good traction in Southeast Asia and believe that this will sustain. We feel that some parts of Africa are good. And, this, will also offer a well for H2 and FY21. Europe is having a slowdown, but there is scope in the waste to energy market and, and also into limited biomass. And we hope to have better traction there. Turkey has been exceptional for us, even though it has had problems domestically. But our order has been, inquiries have been diverted into orders, and we expect that to continue because we have a very good market share there. I think the exceptional point here is that the remaining turbine, it probably is unique in Indian, capital goods and manufacturing company. To have a strong, global market share. We continue to be number 2, and our third competitor is quite far behind. Visa from international organization, databases. And this has to do with, spectrum of products We've, been able to, stack the segments that are in the market today. So we have the products for waste to energy for biomass and for waste heat recovery, which is still very good growth areas. While economies may be going down, but these are certainly places where more and more orders are coming in over a diversified range. And secondly, our R and D now is has has plateaued in terms of which Visa is testing capabilities. And as I mentioned in the last, call, we've, had our new generation, high efficiency, blades and, other stages of the turbine tested in the best laboratories in Italy, And, that space is is now fully operational and has been testing our new range in in both lines from 10 megawatts all the way up to 45 megawatts. So our R and D facilities have come to bear The next two areas where I feel we have succeeded well is in our cost control. Inventory but it's extremely good now. And we feel it's we will be able to, have better cost controls going forward. Value engineering is the key, which differentiate stuff from others and help us to preserve our margins. That is all for continuing, and, we are having good traction in in finding, diversified supplier basis and improving productivity in the two plants that we have. The two areas I'd like to touch upon for the future, which have come for us, is 1, it's oil and gas. We have a very low share, neither priced turbines, mainly in some power generation. And, we've been fortunate in having have breakthrough with the Boyd National Petroleum Company, with Claude Daniel, as a consultant. Now these airlines have been delivered. The the customer, commissioning them or delayed for a while, but in the next 6 months, we spoke to get them delivered. But this is an area where, if there is a huge potential, they're probably at the 1% level there or even less. And so limited competition, and, but the problem is getting the legislation. So we have now managed We've got registration from Abu Dhabi. We are getting registered with Suffolk in Saudi Arabia. We are moving very fast and domestically with EIL, So this is a long process, but the growth for the next few years in this line is is very, very high. The the other line that we find, extremely good is in the wave to energy line. So we've been able to tackle the various parts of wave to energy in both core countries and then and and, those that are hot country and, the Ecuador regions. So our products are now sicking in very much better with the customer requirements and with the same efficiency and margin levels that we expect. And like to mention, are, looking at the range of what is happening to power generation 3, 4, 5 years down the road. This globally is, going to move and look at supercritical CO2 turbines where the where the costs are maybe a quarter to 1 third or what, they are today, 15, of steam turbine. And our work now we've solidified our work with the Indian Institute of Science. So our research projects there, which are you know, 2, 3, 4 years, to come to to fruition for commercial operations in a big way, proceeding at a world class level. We are really looking at the 2 or 3 players globally, then we'll be doing this. And, we've we've solidified our relationships formally with the with the Indian Institute of Science. And I think that is also another area which we are compensating off. We are looking very much slow at the defense sector in Turbines, and we are having a unique dialogue with the with especially the Navy. And, we are the primary focus for them, both for our current client and for the future. So we would really say that, we feel that we'll be able to, have, projected growth in the top line and to the margins We hope that in the year had similar, margins and, the growth in turnover, which we've experience in each one we feel will get through to, the full year. For the bookings, we expect at the end of financial year fy20 to auto to be good to allow us the same growth for fy21. So all in all, being, the 2nd largest player internationally, having, a diversified portfolio and in segments which are there today, and regardless of the growth of the economies that well for Germany turbines. Thank you. Thank you. Should we open it for Q And A session now, sir? We will now begin the question a moment while The first question is from the line of Ravi Saminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congrats for a good set of numbers. I just wanted to know, in terms of the interesting markets, why there was a a sharp fall in order booking? I mean, Was it just related to postponement of orders or, was there, kind of a shrinkage in the market also, overall market also? That's a good question. I I they this, as I said earlier, is a lumpy market. Yes. There has been a postponement of 2 or 3 projects and diversified, territories. You know, basically, I wanted to cover this point that quarter wise booking is lumpy. But, we, are accounted for order booking, Globally, the international for FY 'twenty are still the same. We're very we're fairly confident of that. And, that's the good part. Because we are in different areas, the orders that have got postponed, is not, really in terms of them dumping the project. It is in terms of them actually, clothing and giving the advance. And that's when we take it into recognition. We have a very fixed policy of, order booking recognition. So I think we are expecting a much better, order booking in H2. Got it, sir. We would we end with similar orders, like, what we had done last year in terms of exports? Yes. We're looking at the overall booking for the, being similar to last year. Absolutely. That's that was what our targets were. Okay. And I might stay here. Another thing. Sorry. I should just interject. The inquiry base is pretty good. The inquiry rate actually has gone up. So this, to me, is very encouraging for all the booking in FY 2021 because you know, even with the order postponements, because of the spread of these orders and in the segments that I mentioned, spread of the order geographically, inquiries, that is pretty good. Got it. How much is the inquiry pipeline, sir, the international and domestic? And, how much was it relatively last year? About the same, you know, but, you know, when you look at the inquiry pipeline, I give you pictures of, you know, 5 gigawatts of meat, it doesn't mean because then you have to start looking at which are budgeting inquiries and which are, hot inquiries. So we actually categorize them like that. But All I can say is that we haven't seen any any dip in inquiry generation because of the sectors we're in, which is encouraging. Now, you know, to to expect finalization exactly as per our plan is, is difficult, but overall for, let's say, half years or full years, there is the there's pretty good growth in the total numbers. And I might mention here that we are quite happy with the domestic sector both on a booking potential and inquiry by flight. This is, you know, might be surprising because people are asking us what, you know, how is it? And when generally, because it's a sector that we're in. We're not getting so much in the steel and cement sector, but we stiliary, pulp, and paper, the farmer and, food processing chemicals, I'm still bringing out all the inquiries and placing orders. So this is this is going to continue. Got it. Got it. And then in terms of the oil and gas space, sir, so how large is the opportunity there? It will be more a big need. Is it a need more for us? And, what what is the difference? I mean, what is, I mean, from a layman's point of view, what is the drive turbine and how is it different from conventional turbines? Do you see, in the, oil and gas sector, which includes refineries, and from, fertilizers and all These turbines drive pumps, blowers, compressors, they drive them. So all of the factories have 2. They have a motor and a turbine. Okay. So it's a it's a huge field, you know, the sophistication in in housing place order, but let me tell you, the real kicker, is the very large spares and service. This sector has much higher than the normal service and spares, maybe double of the other sectors. So when you look at it in the future, let's say 3 years from now, it's pretty good. Thank you. I would request Mrs. Swaminathan to come back in queue for follow-up questions. We would also request participants to limit your question to 2 at a time. The next question is from the line of Christy Chen from Syndrome Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Good day, Jen from Sandra Mitchell Fund. Your line has been unmuted. Yes. Please go ahead with your question. Yeah. Good morning, sir. And congratulations for a good set of performance Thank you. Yes, sir. So in the coming half also, do you expect the domestic ordering momentum to still, sir? Yes. Yes. I can say that with the the stage where the inquiries are and the, yes, I expect that to sustain. And also going into page 121. Okay. So That's the final you can normally say, you know, I mean, going more than that is, not correcting me. I'm not wanting it to to make any prediction of going up or down, but it's just Okay. So what would be the catalyst, sir? The sectors, I've said distillery you know, the catalyst to the SNR program. It's a very good investment opportunities, and people are going into it. Same thing. We are finding small paper. We're finding in this, there's still, sectors of, you know, for a month, you know, those process industry. These are not, you know, waste waste the the the market for waste heat recovery, which is where you recover, some excess team that you've been letting out and now revise it is more so when there is a stressed, economic situation because these are quick returns and people are looking for doing that. So that's there. There's a movement towards, municipal solid waste also a bit. I think that will take a little time, but that's a good growth area. I don't know. There is a big, move on the pollution front, but I don't want we haven't taken that into are, when I say that the domestic will sustain. Sir, aftermarket business was little muted, for the half as a whole, like, we we are 1% growth in the aftermarket. It's again very lumpy because I it's a good point that I didn't cover that. The refurbishing sector, this got a little delayed but we're putting fairly good inquiries, especially from the international market. Now, you know, refurbishment is pretty similar to an order. In fact, check that your margins are good. And, so while number of places don't want to order new cook points, they're looking at the refurbishment because but this is so new, in terms of what they did earlier, I I guess the decision making is taking a little longer. So in the international market, the lumpiness is, it's as much if not more in the refurbishment sector, service sector. Aftermarket sector. But we are expecting our targets of bookings in the aftermarket to be better than last year. Okay. Good to hear. Thanks, sir. Thanks a lot, sir. Thank The next question is from the line of Harish Mehta from BNP Parliva. Please go ahead. And I copied already good set of numbers. Sir, currently, what is your market share in India? Also, if you can can give a break up of, you know, product voice and, top 10 countries in terms of revenue contribution? You're asking me for very confidential information, you know, market oriented information. That's not really, public. So, the market share, especially product wise, we don't disclose. But I can say that know, we have over 50% market share at the domestic market. Domestic market? Okay. In terms of segments, sir, can you share that? I sent the segment. I gave you the segment where we are getting orders from distillery, paper. I'm telling you to where the segments are getting orders from. Don't want to go into what a part is in each segment. Thank you. Any other question, miss Samantha? No. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sriman Jain from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Is from Unifi Capital. Your line is in the talk mode. Please go ahead. Yeah. I have thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. The first question is, on our low inventory levels and the growth forecast that you have for thing, Emma, you mentioned that H2 is also likely to see good revenue growth. But if I see our inventory levels, they are quite low. So how do you I mean, these 2, seem to be contradicting. Can you help me reconcile? No. I think the inventory level, which is got lower was some old inventory, which we've we've we've used. So, I don't think that these two things are connected in in in turbine. The inventory level that we had were not inclusive on future growth, needing orders, work in progress, if that's what you're getting to. Also, you must know that 50% of our turnover comes from bought out items. You know, in the turbine island. So that's not in the inventory in our, books. It's in the inventory of our suppliers, alternators, condensers, electrical distribution board that's in with all, turbine manufacturers. And now increasingly, to, increase our turnover and our top line, both domestically and Internationally, where enhancing our scope of supply. We're taking on a bit more because it has the customers are wanting us to do it. We're able to preserve the margin in that. And so by taking on an enhanced scope of supply, in the German area such as piping and other things. We are able to, further the the the top line growth. Sure. So second question, in terms of our order book, to an early participant, you indicated that For the full year, FY 20, our export order book could be similar as to what we did in FY19. So this implies that our H2 order book has to be 2.1 times the H1 order book and export So it's it's my understanding. Correct? Yeah. It's substantially going to be, you know, higher. You're quite right. And So that is a question of the orders to getting postponed. We've already seen good traction in a month or October. And secondly, on the order book front, on the domestic side, here again, you mentioned that the h one momentum shall continue. Now if I were to, again, run the number, it implies that in the H2, of FY 20, our order booking in domestic would be twice what it was in H2 of FY19. So am I not sending it again? No. No. I'm talking about the momentum versus last year. So the so you look at what we did last day or booking and what we did to go to project for this year. And same similarly, what happened in the domestic market for H1. And again, you know, we may have an exceptional quarter because people decide earlier to make it safe. It was born to a to to another to the next water, but we are not seeing any change in the orders that are getting close to finalization, all of them, the orders that are active, for finalization in H2, So that's how I'm able to make the the prediction. So just for my understanding, in H1, the domestic order book was 220 crores, did this have any, you know, orders which were 3 points and would have actually, reflected in H2 otherwise, or is it the normal order book, as a course of business? It's 290. Some of them were work, coming over from from last year, and some of the ones of this year may go over to to a Q1 of FY21. But, by and large, you know, I I don't want to just take a figure and double it like that, but, I'm giving a, a a trend and a basis for that. So I don't see any any big dip in the order booking in domestic market in H2. Okay. It will later than H2 last year. And it'll be roughly similar to what we're having in H1. So then it didn't take doubling of the last year. Last year, we just had, 148 crores of, orders in H2. And, so I'm not getting into the, as I said, if you're trying to get free to give you an exact number of order booking for H2, that's not really possible to project because we are not these are not things that you are a 100% confident when the customer is ready to place the order. But it I can say that overall order booking for the year, will be higher than what it was last year. So that's where I want to leave it. Thank you. I would request Mr. Jane to come back in queue follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Manish Going from Inam Holdings. Please go ahead. Sir. It was, quite happening to see a large auto win of 76 crores in the, JV. So if you can share some more insights as to it a single order and from which sector? Yeah. That's a good question. It's a single order, and it's a large and it's in the combined cycle and it's in West Africa. It's, high end. I I just want to say that, you know, you know, once the operations of DPLF are normal, Marketing is, as it was for both domestically and Internationally. And, the inquiries are pretty good. Somehow not, but, you know, in the higher megawatt ranges, the time of finalization is, is even more, uncertain. Because of the economic situation, generally. Right. Okay. So this, you said, is from West Africa of some combined cycle power plant. Correct. Okay. So so I would just probably I thought that maybe so has this order share of order been flown through to the stand alone, in the q 2 as well? Yes. Okay. Okay. So so if you can give some some more outlook on in terms of how is the pipeline for this large turbines, for the GMV. No. I think the inquiry type pipeline is quite good. Now the problem is that this particular order has been going on for almost a year where we were thinking it might have been finalized. Sure. Okay. It's a long period. You know, I didn't even talk about it, you know, because I said, it's it's, at least 2, 3 quarters, we were feeling that it could have been done at any quarter. Now we have similar ones, at the, let's say, hot early stages or at medium stages. But, so again, even in these lines, there is activity in, in, waste to energy in, some process industries. Limited less now in the sugar path, but, more so in, ways to energy, with heat recovery and biomass. Sure. So what would be our, closing order book as on quarter 2 in GJV? That's a 105. Oh, yes. Yes. We're around a 105 crores. Sure. Okay. And this order which we would have got from the JV would be classified under or international in a stand alone order book, sir? Domestic. Okay. Okay. So probably this is what is one of the reasons why our domestic employees have been quite good in Q2. Yeah. Yeah. No, though if you're actually for our international, sure. Okay. And, so just looking at 1st first half numbers, probably the skewness is quite large for domestic inflow and international inflow. Like, domestic inflow is up 32% while international influence down 43%. And overall, we are down 7%. So, sir, like, for half to our order inflow has to be quite good for us to have a a growth visibility for FY 2021. And are you confident towards that? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point, and, that's what I want to give you. We've done a very detailed analysis, and, we have very good commitments that we will be able to, meet our targets of total order booking. Now you did point out one of cases where domestic comes to, international. I mean, international comes into domestic. And EPC is also sometimes that may have provided the project is overseas. The order is from an EPC to us. But again, you have a good, traction in total order booking. So I would say that that I'm where we are confident of making our numbers of order booking for the year FY Twenty 20. So therefore, I'm able to say that FY21, it it looks like with the same growth path that we're thinking of now, you know, if you're thinking of, early, double digit, in FY 'twenty as the top line, and we're saying the same. That way, the order booking is good. Okay. Okay. So ideally, we should hope for, fy21, our revenues crossing strongly by a crossing 1000 crores, sir. That that is the preliminary budgeting now. Thank you. I would request Mr. Goel to come back and queue a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Hashik Patel from Equities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Sir, I heard there's a couple of bookkeeping bookkeeping questions. So, out of our 130 crore after market order intake, could you give us a split between domestic and exports? I'm just getting it from my colleagues here. Any other question? Sir, similarly, on the, outstanding order book front as well. So if you could give us a breakup between domestic and exports for aftermarket, it would be really good. Hi. Yeah. Is it on the 7525 is a ratio in terms of borrowing flow? Okay. And in terms of outstanding order book? Outstanding order book, it is, almost. 30, 70. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's all so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Cindra Mitchell Fund. Please go ahead. Sir, you had highlighted that you have a order book, tag order booking target order target. So, any color on that, sir, what is your auto booking target, sir? No. No. I can't check if you could. I'm just saying that, we have, we're projecting our growth figures. So you look at the auto booking target and similar numbers, you know, these are, someone didn't point it out. Our order booking this year is for really the, turnover in FY21. So this year's, orders are mainly from what we had got last year. So keep that in mind. And when I'm giving some broad feelings of where our growth is going. That's more for what you could keep in mind rather than a definitive number because these these things are not these are capital goods and capital goods, can be decided in 1 quarter or 2nd quarter. And, the situation is is so diversified today that we even earlier, you cannot really have a fixed number. So in terms of capital allocation, any plans, we have sort of, like, Holy good question. Well, you know, the one very good thing is that here, we have a very good cash situation, which is because of our VAT. Our current cash is probably 150. It's it's a much then at the end of the quarter, 125 or 150 now. And we're reducing inventories, that's there. We don't have any capital allocation as such in terms of need for this. We are just using it for, our, keeping our, liquidity and but we are using some, we are going in the direction of taking on larger section of orders around the turbine, which we don't really need capital for. It's the working capital we're managing extremely well. We don't have any borrowings and we have cash. And even for the for the increased turnover, we don't contemplate, any, borrowings. And, so some slight usage of the cash that we have on hand is not very consequential. Okay. Okay. Sir, so how much like that content will increase will happen, sir, cause of that, captive manufacturing or, which you highlighting in terms of the higher content you highlighted, Nasir. So I'm just that's that's where we are trying to part would figure similar to what I had already said, you know, the low, low double digit cost that's what Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tawal Shah from Giddick Capital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. Yeah. Good afternoon. Hi, sir. Good afternoon. So just one small understanding. So the orders, which you're seeing in another market, yeah, and the segments that you mentioned, all of them are for, waste keeps, is it is it something for that purpose of this? No. No. No. They're they're not for VAT recovery only. They are quite a lot. You know, the the Shirley segment are new. The series coming up. Okay. And the farmers there are some time for process, GrowGen. Okay. So it's, I wouldn't, just put it into one sector. That's why we are quite happy because it's a problem. So it is not a so as you mentioned that when the sentiment is a few week, people, try to save cost but, the demand which you are seeing is not from the cost savings, and it's more from the, actual expansion side. And and where they are able to actually save, see, this wave kit recovery is a cost saving device. It mainly okay. But these are not for large, people, the the cost of the mobile Ireland is not that substantial in our range. Okay, okay. Okay. And what is the progress for in in regards to the the municipal ways in creating the power out of it. Good question. It's slow. But it's a it's a great market for us. Now, you know, the $1,000,000 question is, how many time, how long will it take know, the the problem here is the collection of separation of waste. You know, people are moving in Delhi. They're moving. They're asking people to And our problem is also there putting out the connection. So you need the separation of it is going to happen. If that's to happen and it's going to happen, and we are very ideally situated to supply a key component in it. But these projects have to actually be floated and, given out And, for that, you need the collection and separation of waste. The technology and the project for actually generating it is a fairly simple. Okay. Okay. So for the the entire chain of collection separation has to be established? Yeah. Yeah. And then you get the then it's automatic. So I think people who are looking at the project are waiting for this to happen. Okay. But from the government side, how is the, progress being done to set up this entire chain of collection is it is it is it a priority? Are you seeing some, swift books on that site? Yes. So many municipalities are moving well. I, you know, even in Delhi where we live, these are the colonies are getting encouraging people to do this. Because you see, you know, the pollution and, the question of the government lying around and, and India is very calm that it doesn't want landfill. So there's only one way of, actually, before the moment is in Village, which is where we come in. Correct. Okay. Thank you. That is the, the good factor for us as a as a product supplier. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anin Bhavanani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Two questions. One other expenses, there are 37 crores this quarter versus 25 in Q1. So is there some one off this time around? Can you help me reconcile the difference? The other expenses? Oh, yes. We had, mentioned to you that we were doing some, reengineering and costs last couple of times, which is in in in, at q4offy19, So those have been taken into account. We've fully written them off. And I think, the, expenses are, what do you see? Assets, H1 is at the same levels here. Yes. So that's another question. Like last year also in Q2, we had higher other expenses. So Is it, like, whatever the additional expenses are, will always be included. Is there some cycle to it? So lastly, and this year is 7. So the what's you know, the way we look at expenses, it doesn't help you guys. I don't think there's any thanks a lot for, any quarter. These are just how it happens, the expenses. I don't think there is a, a significant pattern to this, the system to backhand audio. So what should be the, let's say, other expenses, if I were to remove one off from the Q2 number, from the you can take the number that they were, the, you know, it's difficult to forecast. They're not very substantial, the differences and, in in the quarter. Is it on a, then these would vary anyone mix of aftermarket versus product. The the the the expenses are heavily influenced by 2 factors. 1 is dispatches and therefore transportation packaging depending on the export and the domestic. And the other is order intake and therefore the marketing permissions that are given to our agent's network. Depending on order intake. So therefore, it's very difficult to coordinate on a quarter to quarter basis or half yearly, it really depends both on the product dispatches as well as order intake. Thank you. I would request Mr. Bhanani to come back in queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Kamitra from Vibrin Securities. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for your opportunity. I have two questions. First question, how is the growth in the aftermarket services driven? That once we fill the installations, how does it go? No, there is a cycle of, spares that, some come with the order. And some come up in regularity of the running of the installation after a certain amount of time, there are many components that need replacement. And so that's where we, are seeing a spares that is on Corbinator bikes. But we are now very strongly moving into the field of refurbishing other people's lives, especially international That is a big growth area for us. The older turbines of other manufacturers who, maybe not even in business. So or not concentrating on it that much. People are willing to want to upgrade those turbines and they're not necessary by a doctor. Because of the economic constraints. So that is a good market. That's also in comes in aftermarket. Okay. So if we can basically segregate in terms of the so the refurbishment part would be a lumpy one, but there would be a trend in terms of the aftermarket space, which is for the already installed base of cars. Yeah. I don't want to get into the detail of that. You know, that's a little you know, these are market oriented decisions. And so we look at the growth in aftermarket as a total and give that. Because, when you, sometime, when you do the refurbishment, some time ago, you get spared even for that. Yes. But the time lag or when they do it and when you can forecast it, it's not we are moving in that direction and electronically now we are fairly close to having a remote sensing, device, which we are working closely with the information providers to do where we'll be able to offer this in the next 6 to 9 months to a customer where he'll automatically be able to predict when a spares should be ordered. This is very similar to what's there in the airline industry or our engines and and and stuff. So we are trying to get up to speed with that, which is quite revolutionary in our line. That is just to increase the, quantum of spare and the predictability of our own, order bookings. And the servicing of these customers and also to help with the differentiation of our marketing. So that is a line that I thought I might bring up which was also just for aftermarket growth. The next question is from the line of Bayer Lark from Progressive Share Brokers. Please go ahead. Hello? We can't hear you well. Can you please speak on the handset mode? Yes. I wanted to also say thank you so much. Can you can you just hear a little louder? Hello? Yes. Yes. I wanted to understand the things you think about the This is due for a year in recorded and have any impact on the current disease in terms of technology I didn't get that. The what in class? Yes. Impacting the power of business in terms of the SMIC as an active in the system? No impact of what? I didn't I didn't Sorry. I don't get the question. You want to know the impact of the the the the the matter submitted right now. I think the factors will be updated as Thank you for asking. Hi, Pavel. We can't hear you very clearly. You were talking about the, deeds of any, I would say that that's, as the vice chairman had mentioned that matter. It's it's subjective right now, but our business is carrying on quite normally in the joint venture. As we have seen with the recent order booking. So operations and, marketing and execution are half right now. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Adil Khan from ICS Bank. Please go ahead. Just one question from hello, sir. Just one question from my side. So earlier in the PPT, you said, one of the focus areas, the insurance sector, that distilleries segment due to the ethanol push. So what kind of demand are we looking at? And also the future outlook of that, sir, just can you give us a ballpark number No. What part number is difficult, but but you've heard the announcements of the prime minister and the minister in the time. We, as a country, close to 5, 6% blending. And the target is to go up to 20% So, you know, it's a it's a huge, how long it will take and when the, but the government is very they're pushing it a lot for obvious reasons. One is that it has our balance of trade, and, you know, it'll import can go down, parliament changed. And secondly, it's very environmentally friendly. Thirdly, it allows the sugar industry to diversify and be able to, adequately compensate the farmers. So they were they're able to diversify their income, not from sugar into ethanol. So the encouragement is very much there. The figure that you want are given by the government, there are figures of, but how long it will take to get there, which is quadrupling what we are today. Is is is, is not a very easy thing to to put down in fact, but, certainly, we see good growth going forward every year. Or at least my dear, if not more. So that answers my question. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Muciana from Nirmal Bank Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah. I saw two questions from my side. So first, sir, what is the domestic market size now for the 0 to 30 megawatt steam turbine segment? And second, connected question is that now that we are seeing some, you know, kind of better offerings from the domestic market? Are we also seeing better pricing and margins and the, you know, cutthroat competitive intensity that we seen over the past few years, is it declining? I would say that the market size is, it's, much the same, really, a little better than what it was. A year ago. Margin pressures are a little better. I wouldn't say they are anywhere near where we want them to be or in the international market. But they are, to answer that question, they are better than we had experienced in the last few years. Okay. So market size, can you quantify? I think for the half year, the market is online in about 20 and the other year, to about 5.30 megawatts. For tomorrow, maybe. Yeah. Okay sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anan Bhavanani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you again for the opportunity. So I just wanted to congratulate you first for the press release here, we mentioned that, we are the 2nd largest, by vaccine in a survey So congratulations. And, even even we share most methods, from that, you know, survey how has our market share grown, which is the largest in the world ahead of us and what's the difference, some data points, and then I'll come back to open my second question. Well, I can't give it to specifics. I could say that we are quite close to number 1. 1 and 2 are very little different. The gap between 23 is quite large. Okay. And so with regards to our gross margin, Now steel prices have weakened quite a bit. And did you see any scope for our margins to assess the work and make sure the work, raw material changes? No. Raw material is not much in steel. We are in castings and forgings. So we it's not a fabricated item. So we really and, the some of the raw material has been, very high quality, blades, special steels, and some of these items are even imported. Because we so it's a a supply chain base now. It's a global, even for the raw materials. Okay. And lastly, sir, with GTL, our run rate had been fabulous for the first half. How's the outlook like for H2 and qualified21? You know, it's difficult to talk about when these order finalizations will happen. But as I've been saying, we, having, had a good traction in terms of acquiring generation and orders that we are pushing. In a variety of geographies internationally, less domestically in that line. And that I can say that there are not that much, of the higher range, inquiries coming out. And, the sector, you know, which I talked about. So I expect, similar performances going forward. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Well, thank you very much for joining us on this H1 earnings call. I'd just like to you know, we are very happy with our team efforts of achieving this record performance in terms of VAT for 4th 22 and for, H1. And, we it augurs well. Our orders on hand are inquiry based both domestically and, Internationally. We are happy that we're in the right segments both in India and overseas, that are not being affected by the so called global slowdown or problems in various geographies. And our exceptional efforts in technology and R&D and in value engineering is what is making us preserve this growth and, good margins. So I expect this to continue well into, we can see availability well into FY 2021. So with that, I'd like to thank you all for joining me today. Thank you. On behalf of Treveni Turbine Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.