Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY 2020 earnings conference call of Triveni Turbine Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishabh Barar of CDR India. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Q2 and H1 FY 2020 earnings conference call for Triveni Turbine Limited. We have with us on the call today, Mr. Dhruv Sawhney, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Nikhil Sawhney, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which was mailed to everybody earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all invitees, it may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will start this call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have an interactive question and answer session.
I now invite Mr. Dhruv Sawhney to share some perspectives with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much indeed, Rishabh. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the H1 Q2 FY20 earnings call. It's a very good morning here, even though there's a small blizzard and the pollution is a little less, our results, I think, make up for that. We have an exceptionally good quarter and an exceptionally good half year. We've achieved the highest ever turnover and PAT for the quarter and the half year in the history of Triveni Turbine. This is quite creditable considering the overall environment domestically and internationally. Our income from operations have a growth of 19% at INR 4.6 billion, and the PAT has an exceptional growth of 65%. These are on account of improved margins, improved turnover, and of course, a reduced tax provisioning from the recent changes in the corporate tax.
The improvement in margins is in line with what one has mentioned during the previous earnings calls, and is back to the levels that we feel we can sustain over the long term. What are the expectations? I hope so too. These are, as you know, quite exceptional in the capital goods industry, especially in the rotating machinery industry, not just in India, but internationally for both product and overall company. I would like to just take you through some of the points that we have right now and also then discuss the future outlook, which is very bright and good, considering that the environment is still quite tense in the international sphere and in the domestic sphere in the power generation area. Our outstanding order book at INR 6.97 billion is very good.
We've declared a 50% interim dividend. We see very good traction to sustain this optimistic forecast, not just for the balance part of the current FY 2020, but into FY 2021, both for order booking and execution is concerned. Just to look at the domestic market first. Our main areas of orders and in the future are in the distillery segment that you know there's a very big push in India for ethanol. This is really taking off. Governments have got extremely good pricing. They have an encouragement on subsidized funding for the industry. They have also encouraged the oil companies to come out with tenders. A very large tender has already come out. It will be supplied. This augurs very well.
Besides this, we are seeing very good traction in the pulp and paper, both in the half year that has gone by and in the inquiries that we have in hand. The sector that has also been good sustaining is the process sector, which is mainly in the chemicals, pharma, and a little bit in fertilizer. Inquiry based on this also during the first half year and Q2 has been very good. Inquiries are okay in the textile sector, I think they're taking time for converting, and this is really to do with the export push which government is now focusing on. We think that this will also be a little bit of a growth sector in the next 6 months, and definitely in FY 2021. Internationally, our concentration has been good, this is because we are diversified geographically. Very large diversification orders in 70 countries.
The main sectors for us internationally are there, which have waste to energy, biomass, waste heat recovery, and surprisingly, pulp and paper as well. We have orders from these and have very good inquiries from these. These are sectors where we believe we can sustain our growth, and it's over a wide area. We've seen for ourselves a revival for inquiries from Central and South America, which has been very nice. Our base was not too large there. That's very encouraging because we are seeing very good traction and orders intake. We have good traction in Southeast Asia and believe that this will sustain. We feel that some parts of Africa are good, and this will also augur well for H2 and FY 2021.
Europe is having a slowdown, but there is scope in the waste to energy market and also in limited biomass, and we hope to have better traction there. Turkey has been exceptional for us, even though it has had problems domestically. Inquiries have been converted into orders, and we expect that to continue because we have a very good market share there. I think the exceptional points here is that Triveni Turbine is probably unique in Indian capital goods and manufacturing companies to have a strong global market share. We continue to be number two, and our third competitor is quite far behind. These are from international organization databases. This is to do with spectrum of products. We've been able to attack the segments that are in the market today.
We have the products for waste to energy, for biomass, and for waste heat recovery, which is still very good growth areas. While economies may be going down, these are certainly places where more and more orders are coming in over a diversified range. Secondly, our R&D now has plateaued in terms of its testing capabilities. As I mentioned in the last call, we have had our new generation, high efficiency blades and other stages of the turbine tested in the best laboratories in Italy. Our test bed is now fully operational and has been testing our new range in both lines from 10 MW all the way up to 45 MW. Our R&D facilities have come to bear. The next two areas where I feel we have succeeded well is in our cost control.
Inventory management is extremely good now, and we feel we will be able to have better cost controls going forward. Value engineering is the key, which differentiates us from others and helps us to preserve our margins. That is also continuing. We are having good traction in finding diversified supplier bases and improving productivity in the two plants that we have. The two areas I'd like to touch upon for the future, which have come for us is, one is oil and gas. We have a very low share. These are drive turbines mainly and some power generation. We've been fortunate in having a breakthrough with the Kuwait National Petroleum Company, with Fluor Daniel as a consultant. These turbines have been delivered. The customer commissioning them were delayed for a while, but in the next six months, we hope to get them delivered.
This is an area where there is a huge potential. We're probably at the 1% level there or even less, and so a limited competition. The problem is getting registration. We have now managed, we've got registration from Abu Dhabi, we're getting registered with SABIC in Saudi Arabia. We are moving very fast domestically with DIL. This is a long process, but the growth for the next few years in this line is very, very high. The other line that we find extremely good is in the waste to energy line. We've been able to tackle the various parts of waste to energy in both cold countries and hot countries and the equatorial regions. Our products are now fitting in very much better with the customer requirements and with the same efficiency and margin levels that we expect.
I'd like to mention, looking at the range of what is happening to power generation three, four, five years down the road. This globally is going to move and look at supercritical CO2 turbines, where the costs are maybe a quarter to one-third of what they are today of steam turbines. Our work now, we've solidified our work with the Indian Institute of Science. Our research projects there, which are two, three, four years to come To fruition for commercial operations in a big way are proceeding at a world-class level. We are really looking at the two or three players globally that may be doing this, and we've solidified our relationships formally with the Indian Institute of Science. I think that is also another area which we are compensating on.
We are looking very much so at the defense sector in turbines, and we are having a unique dialogue especially with the Navy, and we are the primary focus for them, both for our current line and for the future. We would really say that we feel that we'll be able to have our projected growth in the top line and preserve our margins. We hope to end the year at similar margins and the growth in turnover which we've experienced in H1, we feel will carry through to the full year. Order bookings we expect at the end of financial year FY 2020 to be good, to allow us the same growth for FY 2021. All in all, being the second-largest player internationally, having a diversified portfolio, and in segments which are there today, regardless of the growth of the economies, they're well for Triveni Turbine. Thank you.
Thank you. Should we open it for Q&A session now, sir?
Please.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star 1 on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Anyone who would like to ask a question, please press star 1 at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congrats for a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
I just wanted to know, in terms of the international markets, why there was a sharp fall in order booking. Was it just related to postponement of orders, or was there a kind of shrinkage in the overall market also?
That's a good question. This, as I said earlier, is a lumpy market. Yes, there has been a postponement of two or three projects in diversified territories. Basically, I wanted to cover this point that quarter-wise booking is lumpy. Our targets for order booking globally, the international for FY 2020 are still the same. We're very confident of that. That's the good part. Because we are in different areas, the orders that have got postponed is not really in terms of them dumping the project. It is in terms of them actually closing and giving the advance, and that is when we take it into recognition. We have a very strict policy of order booking recognition. I think we are expecting a much better order booking in H2.
Got it, sir. Would we end with similar orders like what we had done last year in terms of exports?
Yes. We are looking at the overall booking for the year being similar to last year. Absolutely. That's what our targets were.
Okay.
I might say here, another thing. Sorry to just interject. The inquiry base is pretty good. The inquiry base actually has gone up. This to me is very encouraging for order booking in FY 2021. Even with the order postponements, because of the spread of these orders and in the segments that I mentioned, spread of the orders geographically, inquiries, that is pretty good.
Got it. How much is the inquiry pipeline, sir, international and domestic, and how much was it relatively last year?
About the same. When you look at inquiry pipelines and give you figures of 5 gigawatts, it doesn't mean, because then you have to start looking at which are budgetary inquiries and which are hot inquiries. We actually categorize them like that. All I can say is that we haven't seen any dip in inquiry generation because of the sectors we're in, which is encouraging. Now, to expect finalization exactly as per our plan is difficult. Overall for, let's say, half years or full years, there's pretty good growth in the total numbers. I might mention here that we are quite happy with the domestic sector, both order booking potential and inquiry pipeline. This might be surprising because people are asking us, "How is it?" Because it's the sectors that we're in.
We're not getting so much in the steel and cement sector. The distillery, pulp and paper, the pharma, and food processing chemicals are still bringing out orders, inquiries, and placing orders. This is going to continue.
Got it. In terms of the oil and gas space, how large is the opportunity there? Is it a needle move for us? What is the difference? From a layman's point of view, what is a drive turbine and how is it different from conventional turbines?
You see, in the oil and gas sector, which includes refineries and fertilizers and all, these turbines drive pumps, blowers, compressors, they drive them. All refineries have two. They have a substitute. They have a motor and a turbine.
Okay.
It's a huge field, the sophistication in how they place orders. Let me tell you, the real kicker is the very large spares and service. This sector has much higher than the normal service and spares, maybe double of the other sectors. When you look at it in the future, let's say three years from now, it's pretty good.
Thank you. I would request Mr. Swaminathan to come back in case of follow-up questions. We would also request participants to limit your question to two at a time. The next question is from the line of Kirthi Jain from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Kirthi Jain from Sundaram Mutual Fund, your line has been unmuted.
Hello?
Yes, please go ahead with your question.
Okay. Yeah. Good morning, sir, and congratulations for a good set of performance.
Thank you.
Yes, sir. In the coming half also, do you expect the domestic ordering momentum to sustain, sir?
Yes. I can say that. With the stage where the inquiries are, yes, I expect that to sustain. Also going into H121.
Okay.
That's as far as you can normally say. Going more than that is not correct. I'm not wanting to make any predictions of going up or down, but sustain.
Okay. What would be the catalyst, sir?
The sectors, I said distillery. The catalyst is the SLR program, which is a very good investment opportunity, and people are going into it. Same thing, we are finding small paper. We're finding there's still sectors of pharma, chemical, process industry. The market for waste heat recovery, which is where you recover some excess steam that you've been letting out and now revive it, is more so when there is a stressed economic situation, because these are quick returns and people are looking for doing that. There is a movement towards municipal solid waste also a bit. I think that will take a little time, but that's a good growth area. As you know, there is a big move on the pollution front, but we haven't taken that into our, when I say that domestic will sustain.
Sir, our aftermarket business was little muted for the half as a whole. We are 1% growth in the aftermarkets.
Yeah.
How is this looking?
It's again very lumpy. It's a good point, I didn't cover that. The refurbishing sector, this got a little delayed, but we've got extremely good inquiry, especially from the international market. Refurbishment is pretty similar to an order. In fact, you check that your margins are good. While a number of places don't want to order new equipment, they're looking at the refurbishment. This is so new in terms of what they did earlier. I guess the decision-making is taking a little longer. In the international market, the lumpiness is as much, if not more, in the refurbishment sector, service sector, aftermarket sector. We are expecting our targets of bookings in the aftermarket to be better than last year.
Okay. Good to hear, sir. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Harish Mehta from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Yes sir, thanks for the opportunity.
Thank you.
Congrats for very good set of numbers. Sir, currently, what is your market share in India? If you can give a breakup of product-wise and top 10 countries in terms of revenue contribution.
No.
Also the segment-wise.
You're asking me for very confidential information, market-oriented information. That's not really public. The market share, especially product-wise, we don't disclose, but I can say that we have over 50% market share in the domestic market.
Domestic market?
Yeah.
Okay. In terms of segment, sir, can you share that?
I said the segments. I gave you the segments where we are getting orders from. Distillery, pulp and paper. I'm telling you the way the segments we're getting orders from. I don't want to go into what part is in each segment.
Okay. Thanks. That's useful.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Yeah.
Thank you. Any other question, Mr. Mehta?
No, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrikant Jain from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Shrikant Jain from Unifi Capital, your line is in the talk mode. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. The first question is on our low inventory levels and the growth forecast that you have for H2. Sir, in the remarks you mentioned that H2 is also likely to see good revenue growth. If I see our inventory levels, they are quite low. These two seem to be contrary. Can you help me reconcile?
No. I think the inventory level which got lower was some old inventory which we've used. I don't think these two things are connected in turbines. The inventory levels that we had were not conclusive on future growth, meaning orders, work in progress, if that's what you're getting to. Also, you must know that 50% of our turnover comes from bought-out items in the turbine island. That's not in the inventory in our books. It's in the inventory of our suppliers, alternators, condensers, electrical distribution boards. That's in with all turbine manufacturers. Now increasingly, to increase our turnover and our top line, both domestically and internationally, we're enhancing our scope of supply. We're taking on a bit more because the customers are wanting us to do it. We're able to preserve the margins in that.
By taking on an enhanced scope of supply in the turbine area, such as piping and other things, we are able to further the top-line growth.
Sure. Sir, second question. In terms of our order book, to an earlier participant, you indicated that for the full year, FY 2020, our export order book could be similar as to what we did in FY 2019. This implies that our H2 order book has to be 2.1 times the H1 order book in exports. Is my understanding correct?
Yeah, it's essentially going to be higher. You're quite right. That is a question of the orders getting postponed. We've already seen good traction in the month of October.
Secondly, on the order book front, on the domestic side, here again, you mentioned that the H1 momentum shall continue. If I were to again run the numbers, it implies that in the H2 of FY 2020, our order booking in domestic would be twice what it was in H2 of FY 2019. Am I understanding it again?
No, no. I'm talking about the momentum versus last year. You look at what we did last year order booking and what we are going to project for this year, and similarly what happened in the domestic market for H1. Again, we may have an exceptional quarter because people decide earlier. They may get slightly postponed to the next quarter. We are not seeing any change in the orders that are getting close to finalization or the orders that are active for finalization in H2. That's how I'm able to make the prediction.
Just for my understanding, in H1, the domestic order book was INR 290 crore. Did this have any orders which were preponed and would have actually reflected in H2 otherwise? Is it the normal order book as a course of business, this INR 290 crore?
It's the normal order book. Some of them were coming over from last year, and some of the ones of this year may go over to Q1 of FY 2021. By and large, I don't want to just take a figure and double it like that. I'm giving a trend and a basis for that. I don't see any big dip in the order booking in domestic market in H2.
Okay. It will be greater than H2 last year.
It will be roughly similar to what we're having in H1.
It implies doubling of the last year. Last year, we just had INR 148 crores of orders in H2.
Right.
And so-
Well, I'm not getting into the As I said, if you're trying to get me to give you an exact number of order booking for H2, that's not really possible to project because these are not things that you are 100% confident when the customer is ready to place the order. I can say that overall order booking for the year will be higher than what it was last year. That's where I want to leave it.
Thank you. I would request Mr. Jain to come back in case follow-up question. We would also request participants to please limit your question to two at a time. The next question is from the line of Manish Goyal from Enam Holdings. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Sure.
Sir, it was quite heartening to see a large order win of INR 76 crore in GE JV. If you can share some more insights as to, is it a single order, and from which sector?
Yeah. That's a good question. It's a single order, and it's a large turbine, and it's in the combined cycle, and it's in West Africa.
Oh, okay.
It's high-end. I just want to say that the operations of GETL are normal. Marketing is as it was before, both domestically and internationally. The inquiries are pretty good.
Oh.
Some are, some are not. In the higher megawatt ranges, the time of finalization is even more uncertain because of the economic situation generally.
Right. Okay. This you said is from West Africa for combined cycle power plant.
Correct.
Okay. I thought that maybe So has this share of order been flown through to the standalone in the Q2 as well?
Yes.
Okay. If you can give some more outlook on, in terms of how is the pipeline for these large turbines for the JV?
Of course. No, I'm saying the inquiry type pipeline is quite good. The problem is that this particular order had been going on for almost a year, where we were thinking it might have been finalized.
Sure. Okay.
It's a long period. I didn't even talk about it because I said, at least two, three quarters we were feeling that it could have been done at any quarter. Now, we have similar ones at, let's say, early stages or medium stages. But again, even in these lines, there is activity in waste to energy, in some process industries. Limited less now in the sugar part. But more so in waste to energy, waste heat recovery, and biomass.
Sure.
Similar to what's happening in the under 30 MW.
What would be our closing order book as on quarter two in GE JV?
That's INR 105. Yes, around INR 105 crore.
Sure. Okay. This order, which we would have got from the JV, would be classified under domestic or international in standalone order book, sir?
Domestic.
Okay. Probably this is what is one of the reasons why our domestic inflow has been quite good in Q2.
Yeah. Though it is actually for international.
Sure. Okay. Sir, just looking at H1 numbers, probably the skewness is quite large for domestic inflow and international inflow. Like domestic inflow is up 32%, while international inflow is down 43%. Overall, we are down 7%. Sir, like for H2, our order inflow has to be quite good for us to have a growth visibility for FY 2021. Are you confident towards that?
Yeah. That's a good point, and that's what I want to give you. We've done a very detailed analysis. We have fairly good commitments that we will be able to meet our targets of total order booking. Now, you did point out one of the cases where domestic comes to international, I mean, the international comes into domestic. In EPCs also sometimes that may happen while the project is overseas, the order is from an EPC to us. Again, you have good traction in total order booking. I would say that we are confident of meeting our numbers of order booking for the year, FY20. Therefore, I'm able to say that FY21, it looks like with the same growth path that we're thinking of now.
If we're thinking of early double digit in FY 2020 top line, we're saying that way the order booking is going.
Okay. Ideally we should hope for FY 2021, our revenues crossing strongly by crossing INR 1,000 crores, sir.
That is the preliminary budgeting now.
Thank you. I would request Mr. Goyal to come back and give a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Harshit Patel from Equirus. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sir, I had just a couple of bookkeeping questions. Out of our INR 130 crores aftermarket order intake, sir, could you give us a split between domestic and exports?
Just a minute. I am just getting it from my colleague here. Any other question?
Sir, similarly on the outstanding order book front as well. If you could give us a breakup between domestic and exports for aftermarket, then it would be really good.
No, I don't have it. Harshit, it is around 75/25 is the ratio in terms of order inflow.
Okay. In terms of outstanding order book?
Outstanding order book, it is almost 30/70.
30/70, you said?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's all from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirthi Jain from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Sir, you had highlighted you have a order booking target. Any color on that, sir? What is your order booking target, sir?
No, I can't give you. I'm just saying that we are projecting our growth figures, so you look at the order booking target in similar numbers. As Swaminathan pointed out, our order booking this year is for really the turnover in FY 2021. This year's orders are mainly from what we had got last year. Keep that in mind. When I'm giving some broad feelings of where our growth is going, that's more for what you could keep in mind rather than a definitive number, because these are capital goods, and capital goods can be decided in one quarter or a second quarter. The situation is so diversified today that even earlier, you cannot really have a fixed number.
In terms of capital allocation, any plans we have, sir? Like.
Good question. Well, the one very good thing is that here we have a very good cash situation, which is because of our PAT. Our current cash is probably INR 150. At the end of the quarter, INR 125 or INR 150 now, and we're reducing inventories that's there. We don't have any capital allocation as such in terms of need for this. We are just using it for keeping our liquidity. We are going in the direction of taking on larger section of orders around the turbine, which we don't really need capital for. It's the working capital we're managing extremely well. We don't have any borrowings, and we have cash. Even for the increased turnover, we don't contemplate any borrowings. Some slight usage of the cash that we have on hand is not very consequential.
Okay. Sir, how much like that content increase will happen, sir, because of that captive manufacturing work, which you're highlighting in terms of the higher content you highlighted now, sir?
No, that's where we are trying to keep our growth figures similar to what I had already said.
Okay.
The low double-digit growth. That's what we are trying to achieve in the long term.
Good. Good to hear, sir. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhaval Shah from Girik Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hello. Yeah, good afternoon.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Just one small understanding. The orders, the traction which you're seeing in the downstream market, in the segments which you mentioned, all of them are for waste heat recovery? Is it for that purpose only?
No, they're not for waste heat recovery only. There's quite a lot. The distillery segments are new distilleries coming up.
Okay.
In the pharma sector, they are sometimes for process, cogen.
Okay.
I wouldn't just put it into one sector. That's why we are quite happy.
Got it. As you mentioned that when the sentiment is little weak, people try to save cost. The demand which you are seeing is not from the cost savings side, it's more from the actual expansion side.
Where they are able to actually save. See, the waste heat recovery is a cost-saving device. It may need a little capital. These are not for large people. The cost of the turbine island is not that substantial in our range.
Okay. What is the progress in India with regards to burning of the municipal waste and creating power out of it?
Good question. It's slow, but it's a great market for us. The million-dollar question is, how long will it take? The problem here is the collection and separation of waste. People are moving in Delhi, they're asking people to, in our colonies also, they are putting out the solution. You need the separation of. It is going to happen. It has to happen, it's going to happen. We are very ideally situated to supply a key component in it. These projects have to actually be floated and given out, and for that, you need the collection and separation of waste. The technology and the project for actually generating it is fairly simple.
Okay. Firstly, the entire chain of collection separation has to be established.
Yeah. Then it's automatic. I think people who are looking at the project are waiting for this to happen.
Okay. From the government side, how is the progress being done to set up this entire chain of collection? Is it a priority? Are you seeing some swift moves on their side?
Yeah. Many municipalities are moving well. Even in Delhi, now, where we live, now the colonies are encouraging people to do this. You see, you know the pollution and the question of the garbage lying around, and India is very firm that it doesn't want landfill. There's only one way of actually disposing of it, is incineration, which is where we come in.
Correct. Okay. Thank you.
That is the good factor for us as a product supplier.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Two questions. One is our other expenses, they are INR 37 crores this quarter versus INR 25 in Q1. Is there some one-off this time around, or can you help us reconcile the difference?
The other expenses? Yes. We had mentioned to you that we were doing some re-engineering and costs last couple of times, which is in Q4 of FY 2019. Those have been taken into account. We've fully written them off. I think the expenses are What do you think? Actually, it's only at the same level as before.
That's another question. Last year also in Q2, we had high other expenses. Is it like whatever these additional expenses have been always been Q2, is there some cycle to it? Last year Q2 was INR 33, and this year is INR 37, whereas this year in Q1 it was INR 25. What's the way we book these expenses? Is there some cyclicality?
I don't think there's any cycle on any quarter. These are just how it happens, the expenses. I don't think there is a specific pattern to this at all.
What should be the, let's say, other expenses, if I were to remove one-off from the Q2 number, from the INR 37 crores?
You can take the numbers as they were. It's difficult to forecast. They're not very substantial, the differences in the quarter.
Is it also that these other expenses would vary depending upon mix of aftermarket versus product as a business?
The expenses are heavily influenced by two factors. One is dispatches, and therefore transportation and packaging, depending on export and domestic. The other is order intake, and therefore the marketing commissions that are given to our agent networks, depending on order intake. Therefore, it's very difficult to coordinate on a quarter-to-quarter basis or half yearly, because it depends both on the product dispatches as well as order intake.
Thank you. I would request Mr. Bhavnani to come back in queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Pamecha from Vibrant Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. First is, sir, how is the growth in the aftermarket space is driven? Once we do the installations, how does it go?
There is a cycle of spares that some come with the order and some come after in regularity of the running of the installation. After a certain amount of time, there are many components that need replacement. That is where we are seeing our spares. That is on Triveni Turbines. We are now very strongly moving into the field of refurbishing other people's turbines, especially internationally. That is a big growth area for us. The older turbines of other manufacturers who are maybe not even in business or not concentrating on it that much, people are willing to want to upgrade those turbines, and not necessarily buy adopt them because of the economic constraints. That is a good market. That also comes in after marketing.
Okay. If we can basically segregate in terms of the refurbishment part would be a lumpy one, but there would be a trend in terms of the aftermarket spares, which is for the already installed base of ours, right?
Yeah. I don't want to get into the detail of that. These are market-oriented decisions. We look at the growth in aftermarket as a total and give that, because when you do the refurbishment some time ago, you get spares even for that.
Yes.
The time lag of when they do it and when you can forecast it, is not. We are moving in that direction, electronically now, we are fairly close to having a remote sensing device, which we are working closely with the information providers to do, where we'll be able to offer this in the next six to nine months to a customer where he'll automatically be able to predict when spares should be ordered. This is very similar to what's there in the airline industry or with gas engines and stuff. We are trying to get up to speed with that, which is quite revolutionary in our line. That is just to increase the quantum of spares and the predictability of our own order booking and the servicing of these customers, and also to help in the differentiation of our marketing.
That is a line that I thought I might bring up, which was also just for aftermarket growth.
Thank you. I would request Mr. Pamecha to come back and give a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Payal Lad from Progressive Share Brokers. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hello.
Payal, we can't hear you well. Can you please speak on the handset mode?
Hello, can you hear me now?
Hello, yes, Payal.
Yes. I wanted to understand a little brief about the Enclave acquisition which is due for wording.
Can you just speak a little louder?
Hello.
Yes.
Yes. I wanted to understand a little brief about the Enclave acquisition, which is due for wording. Would it have any impact on the current business in terms of technology or marketing?
I didn't get that. The what? Enclave?
Yes.
Impact of?
Impact on the current business in terms of technology or the marketing assistance.
No impact of what? Sorry, I don't get the question. You want to know the impact of?
The matter is sub judice right now. I think the factors have been taken.
Oh.
Thank you.
Oh, I see. Okay.
Hello. Payal, we can't hear you very clearly.
If you were talking about the GE Triveni, I would say that, as the Vice Chairman has mentioned, that matter is sub judice right now. Our businesses are carrying on quite normally in the joint venture, as we have seen with the recent order booking. Operations and marketing and execution are quite normal.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Adil Khan from ICICI Bank. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, sir.
Hello.
Hello, sir. Just one question from my side. Earlier in the PPD, you said one of the focus areas being sugar sector, the distillery segment due to the ethanol push. What kind of demand are we looking at and also the future outlook of that, sir? Just can you give us a ballpark number?
No, ballpark number is difficult, but you've heard the announcements of the prime minister and the minister in this line. We, as a country, are close to 5%-6% blending, the target is to go up to 20%. It's huge. The government is pushing it a lot for obvious reasons. One is that it helps our balance of trade, oil imports can go down. Secondly, it's very environmentally friendly. Thirdly, it allows the sugar industry to diversify and be able to adequately compensate the farmers. They're able to diversify their income from sugar into ethanol. The encouragement is very much there. The figures that you want are given by the government.
How long it will take to get there, which is quadrupling what we are today, is not a very easy thing to put down in fact. Certainly we see good growth going forward every year for at least five years, if not more.
Okay. That answers my question, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Muchhala from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Two questions from my side.
Yes
sir, what is the domestic market size now for the zero to 30 megawatt steam turbine segment? Second connected question is that, now that we are seeing some kind of better orderings from the domestic market, are we also seeing better pricing and margins and cutthroat competitive intensity that we had seen over the past few years? Is it declining?
I would say that the market size is about the same as, a little better than what it was a year ago.
Market size is-
2014-2015, and 2012 and 2013-2014. Margin pressures are a little better. I wouldn't say they are anywhere near where we want them to be or in the international market. To answer that question, they are better than we had experienced in the last few years.
Okay, sir. Market size, can you quantify?
I think for the half year, the market has grown by about 20% year-over-year to about 530 megawatts. A little more maybe. Yeah.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from Unifi Capital, please go ahead.
Thank you again for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to congratulate you first for the, interestingly, you mentioned that we are the second-largest by magazine in a survey. Congratulations. If you can share more snippets from that survey. How has our market share grown? Which is the largest in the world ahead of us, and what's the difference? Some data points, and then I'll come back to my second question.
Well, I can't give into specifics. I would say that we're quite close to number one. One and two are very little difference. The gap between two and three is quite large.
Okay. Sir, with regards to our gross margin, steel prices have weakened quite a bit. Do you see any scope for our margins to be better in lower raw material prices?
No, our raw material is not much in steel. We are in castings and forgings, it's not a fabricated item. Some of the raw material is in very high-quality blades, special steels, and some of these items are even imported. Supply chain base now is global, even for the raw material.
Okay. Lastly, sir, with GETL, our run rate had been fabulous for the first half. How's the outlook like for H2 and for FY 2021?
It's difficult to talk about when these order finalizations will happen. As I've been saying, we are having adequate traction in terms of inquiry generation and orders that we are pushing in a variety of geographies internationally. Less domestically in that line. That I can say, that there is not that much of the higher range inquiries coming out. The factors you know, which I have talked about. I expect similar performances going forward.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Well, thank you very much for joining us on this H1 earnings call. We are very happy with our team's efforts of achieving this record performance in terms of PAT for both Q2 and for H1. It augurs well. Our orders on hand, our inquiry base, both domestically and internationally. We are happy that we're in the right segments, both in India and overseas, that are not being affected by the so-called global slowdown or problems in various geographies. Our exceptional efforts in technology and R&D and in value engineering is what is making us preserve this growth and good margins. I expect this to continue. We can see visibility well into FY21. With that, I'd like to thank you all for joining me today.
Thank you. On behalf of Triveni Turbine Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.