Q4 18/19

May 21, 2019

Quarterly report

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Travany Turbine Limited Q4 and FY19 earning conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call? Please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touch tone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to mister from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the q 4 and FY19 earnings conference call for Traveenita Wine Limited. We have with us today on the call, Mister Drew Soni, chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Nikkel Soni, vice chairman and Managing Director, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward looking in nature and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which was mailed to everybody earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all invitees, it may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will start this call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have an interactive question and answer session. I now invite Mr. Drew Soni to share some perspectives with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody, for the, FY19 earning call. The year under review has been one of the major accomplishments, Our net income from operations at $8,400,000,000 had shown a growth of 12%. VAT had shown a growth of 4% at 1,000,000,000. We have a strong outstanding order book of 7.2%. Toliv is the highest in the, in the history of the company. And, this is pretty much on target. Our order bookings also have been a record, and we've had bookings of 8,500,000,000 in the year. And I think the biggest achievements has been how we have said internationally versus competition and in our market share. An international steam turbine power company has rated us now number 2 in the world, globally. So as of the global market, we've had 22% market share, And, the accomplishment is quite substantial because the 3rd party is less than 10%. So, the market internationally has been, lower than one and the expected because of certain turmoil and, certain geographical problems in many places, and also the the shift, away from the conventional uh-uh, coal based plants to the unconventional areas, and I'll come back to that in a few minutes. Our disappointment has been, a bit in the fact that our new product introductions have had a cost overrun in Q4. And that is what has, brought the, margins lower This has, now been fully provided for. It was mentioned in Q3 that we were, contemplating it. So we are confident of our Q1 numbers and our numbers for H1 and FY20. The overall order book, which, is closed at 7,200,000,000, is is now quite firm, and we've done very good analysis on the same. But our new product introductions have allowed us the potential of entering new sectors also new geographies. So it was something that was well contemplated and, is something that we felt was necessary a year and a half ago, and I'm glad we've gone through the the research effort and the implementation in the field. In the export line, the renewable sector is growing. We are number 1 globally in the renewable sector. From the same international power report. And that is a substantial, achievement So we are in the right line. The renewables, I am including biomass, waste to energy, and of course, cogeneration, such as sugar. So while this is not a line which has a a growth rate in other renewables such as, solar or wind. It is very substantial, and it is continuing. Secondly, it's in all geographies. So what is not happening in one place and waste to energy may be happening in somewhere else. So the international implementation of projects in the lines of biomass and waste to energy are bearing fruit in the orders on hand that we have in FY 'twenty. And this is what has given us the confidence of being able to come back to our normal margins in Q1, and especially in H1 of FY 'twenty based on our order book now and the measures taken for the cost reductions in the new introductions. The inquiry book, which is, increased by 8%, domestically, has come from the sectors of molasses based distilleries. You've all been reading in the papers about government's push on ethanol. This is continuing and expected to to go on in the future. This is a key sector for us. Sugar, but, Pulp and Paper, and a little bit from the steel and cement sector. In our aftermarket area, We have had a growth of 13% in FY18 in terms of order booking and sales have grown by 7%. The very good achievements that we feel in the aftermarket has been in the international market. Where we've had a year to year growth of 49%. And now the outstanding order book has got 51% of exports in it. The key segments of the aftermarket business have all shown growth, which is Fairs, services, refurbishment. In our product, international market, we have looked at further inroads in Africa, parts of Southeast Asia, and in the Middle East. So we expect our diversification in geographies to help us in smoothing out, a problem that may be happening domestically. As you know, there have been problems in UK with Brexit. There have been problems in Turkey. There have been problems in other parts of Europe. So we feel we are diversified now with our new product introductions, having stabilized fully, to approach our sales in a consistent manner. So we can say that we are looking at double digit growth in in in in in sales in FY20, and we'll double that in the margin growth. For the next year. A disappointment has been in the overall performance of to each of any limited hardship to do. This has been below our expectations. And while the revenue was 777,000,000 after tax of 90. There have been some, delays in customer clearances And so the shipment to some large turbines have got shifted to the first half of the current year. But we are putting substantial pressure on BHG to increase their marketing efforts substantially in the international markets and also provide further technological inputs to the JV so that we so that the so the Geezzavini is able to realize its full potential, which we feel has a little bit to go. In design and development, your company continues to have a strong focus. And, with our dedicated development team, We are, having a further improvement in our efficiency, which is the key, and making the products more cost competitive. We have a new testing facility coming on board in the next 2 months, and that will be helping us in our, in the testing of our new turbine. The company's portfolio on IPR is building up consistently. And so we have a total of about 250 IPR that have been filed until March 2019. I would like to, just end, by mentioning that with the company's products having been installed and sold in over 70 countries, Internationally, with the focus of the aftermarket business picking up traction in the international arena. And with the growth now in the domestic market, We see FY 'twenty, having, sales traction in double digits. And more importantly, a lot, a double of that in our margin correction for the coming year. So with the strong order book and these projections, we feel that the next year It will be an even better one than the LEAFOLD 1, which we have just been through in FY19. I'd like to end by mentioning that, the buyback, which we had, which had pursuant to the shareholders, approval. My special resolution, the company is more back at 66 Black 66,666 Equity shares at a price of 150 rupees, for the aggregate of a 100 crores, which is 2.02 percent of its total paid up capital, from all the, eligible equity shareholders. And these shares were distinguished on 5th February 2019. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question Participants are requested to use answered while asking a question. Please and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue We take the first question from the line of Ashish Mehta from Edelweiss. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Good evening, sir. This is Sandeep. Sir, two questions. First, you did mention about this new product introductions. Sir, it will be great. If you can just highlight a bit on this new product and which, you know, which new market or new geographies that you're targeting from this. And, maybe something on, what's paid, you know, I do market size that we are looking to tap for this. And then finally, if you can just highlight what is the kind of cost that we have incurred, because of which the margins have been lower in the last two is. Okay. Let me just exactly your question on the, it's a good question on what are the basic areas. We have concentrated on the renewable term. So we've modified our products to suit our customer base, mainly in the international markets in biomass and waste to energy. So it's a blend between increased efficiencies and keeping our costs, where they are. So, we had gone through a very strong, testing programs and we've used international organizations in Europe, in Italy, for this, they've they've suggested certain modifications, which have all been taken into into production in in Q4. And in fact, we've written off all those expenses. So One of the, the idea where, you know, we have, a good, a good, profit base to write off the costs rather than depreciate it over the longer term. Secondly, we also have a good benefit on R And D expenses, which we get from the government of India. So about 22 crores, we've spent, which we've already provided for in FY 'nineteen, and this expenditure is on testing and on the leave of new and on material cost. Turn on material cost. But mainly it is to modify the device to suit, various customer segments. Now these customer segments are all over. I mean, every country is going for waste to energy and biomass, waste to energy, particularly, less so in India, than it is in the international market, including Southeast Asia and some African countries. They seem to be a little faster than us in it. So while this was something that was crucial to to hit competition. And I'm very glad that we are now number 1 in this area. Right, sir. That is clear. Thank you. So my second question is actually, you know, on on the data that you said, wherein, you know, we have a market share of about 22% in exports market specifically between the high to 30 megawatt range. Now, sir, this is something if if we understand it right. Are we are we saying that, sir, that the height to 30 megawatt, the market size is just about 2a half 1000 odd croats globally. Is that be a correct understanding? Yes. It's for the segments that we operate in. So this does not include drive turbine. It doesn't include a lot of other systems. So what we are defining is the market that we are currently catering to And, therefore, while, the chairman talked about new product introductions and we've talked about in previous, board meetings about about, approach into the oil and gas and API market. That is, of course, not included in in these segments. So but very fairly will be cater to most of the market. Correct. And and this would be this would be global, including India. Including India. This is the global marketplace. One thing I might say that the international organization doesn't get very much data from China. So I think you can take China out. Alright, sir. Got it. Thank you so much. You can include Chinese manufacturers and, all of it. Alright, sir. Got it. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Manish Kohl from Inam Holding. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, and thank you so much. So just to clarify, you mentioned 22 crores was there additional spend on new product developments and which has been debited into in Q3 and Q4? No. Well, I would say majority has been debited a little has capitalized, but the majority is debited. Okay. And, going forward, you don't expect any more, signature and No. No. No. Now it's only the the, the the figure I gave you for growth, both in margin, and then sales is after. It's for the full year and is is taking into account anything that we might a little bit in Q1 that might be, spilling over to the month of April, which was already finished. Right. And this plan you mentioned was on the material cost as well as the additional testing charges. Right? You want it. You got it. Exactly. It, precisely. These are the 2, but by testing, we've been testing overseas in, in, in, university, Milan and others. And, also in the facilities we put up in, Tompura plant in Bangalore. Sure. And, also to have a more understanding on the margins on that in Q3, we we did mention that the revenue revenue mix was not favorable with higher sales, in domestic products with some BOP element. So for full year, would it be able to quantify what was that BOP element, which probably would have impacted our margins in, I don't remember. So can you can you repeat what do you mean the? A balance of plant, work related to the domestic product execution? No. I think there's some, I'm not sure what is it. We we have been, selling termite Island which is, you know, the whole turbine island is the the the the turbine plus alternator and other things. There hasn't been any any extra project. So I will rephrase it. Is it turnkey, jobs? What we would have, executed in the current year should be the larger pie in the overall domestic share? No. I I I I don't think that's all. We are what we are selling in the domestic market very much what we are selling in the international market in terms of a a turbine package. What we have done in the international market is we have changed things slightly because it's helping the margins as now we offer, erection and commissioning to the customer. So we're giving him a not a 20 solution including the civil works and all, but we take on the the supplies that have an island erection and commissioning And we also offer operational and maintenance if they want it. Sure. And, sir, in Q3, we had certain dispatches of nearly 8 turbines which were delayed and, a couple of them were related to GE. So we were expecting it to get, delivered in Q4, but that has not happened yet. No. No. No. I you're right. But all of them have not happened. But they will happen in H1. Q1, I hope, but I'm now because it's you see, we are in the hands of uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh As you know, the international power business has been through a huge problem. You know the results of these major companies. Now when you go to these combined cycle type of projects, whether it's gas turbines and steam turbines, we are really a part of a package of a larger package there. We have to stick with the, with the customer. And, I'm, you know, it is a repeat business. So there's a limited amount that you can make a point for in one order. But I think that we have seen the light of the day now in Q1. We're expecting the dispatches in the next, last year have happened. Within the year already, it's a question of how, revenue recognition on the basis of uh-uh FOB. Oh, okay. And, sir, just to get a sense, on the aftermarket, the back of the envelope calculation based on your order, the inflow and order backlog suggest that the aftermarket, international revenues have probably declined in the current year. Would it be possible to give us a number, what what is it and what was it last year? Last year, the international aftermarket was about 64 crores in this year. It's about 81 crores. Total aftermarket was about 180, 190. Around 92 crores last year, and it's about 200 and, it's about half about 12. But it's about 12. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's actually not declined, from the We expect the same growth, and we expect looking better growth in FY Twenty. Okay. And last question and last question on, sir, on the ethanol, yeah, basically, what we hear is that the inquiries have been growing up the government support program. So would it be possible to probably give us a sense how much has been the inquiry and how do you see it, conversion happening going forward? No. I as you know, the inquiries have, I I the numbers are there's no point in that because the the police take, you know, the inquiries come and some people do it quickly. Some people do it later. But the more more important thing is that the government the government of India has, you know, we, in the group, have, also put up one ourselves, big one. So the government has given incentives in terms of loan, at the suspension for the Manassas based facilities, quite a substantial interest, subvention And, the, they've, shortened the environment in clearances also. And secondly, the rate of, the ethanol has been fixed. But it's it's it's increased for molasses based, the heavy molasses, and then came to use. So the pro projects are much more viable. We expect the this this is to keep going up. Thank you so much, Thank you so much. Thank you. Please limit your questions to for participant. You may come out in the question queue if you have a follow-up. Next question is from the line of Kelsey Jen from Sundra Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Sir, so, the 1 digit growth, sir, So you had highlighted that, it's our automated quote. It was just 4 percentage for the, on a closing basis. So what gives us the confidence that the growth will be revenue double digit. So is it that the the the inquiries are so good that the auto flow would be good stuff during the year? No, no, there are 2 things to that. One is the quality of the order book in terms of, in terms of when it came when it came in and when it closes. So therefore, when the product will get dispatched is much more feasible and gives us an indication. And, also, secondly, as you suggest, is is the is the book and bill that we've already seen in Q1 and, and so that gives us confidence in the turnover. Of course, this is at this point in time, we will keep you updated as we go through the through the quarters. Okay. So, sir, sir, sir, just to understand, 20 quotes kind of what the one off for the full year. Right, sir? Last year for for FY 'nineteen. Yes, sir. So that that should not be there in the FY 'twenty, for our member purposes. Correct, sir? No. That that number should be, like we said, we are expecting our PPT margins, which was somewhere in the region of 17.5% to revert to what is what we consider to be normal is up approximately 21. Correct? 2020, over 20. Over 20%. Okay. Pbd margins of political, sir, as you as you used to do historically, that's that's the target. We know that now because of the expenses having been done and the and the order that we have. Sir, the domestic, the DGG market, how you capture the DGG market, how you expect the growth, for next next year, Currently, this year, in the 5 to, the 30 megawatt range, 740 megawatts of turbines were ordered. Our anticipation was to actually exceed that a little bit. Q4 was a little weak on the domestic side, as you know, because of the uncertainties towards elections. And, while we are sitting in, May right now, we believe that Q1 may also be high. But having said that, the inquiry book is quite strong in certain sectors where we see, for example, in, in cement, we're not seeing much greenfield expansion there, but there is an enormous amount of expansion happening in the waste sheet recovery segment. Steel has dried off a little bit, but other process, industries such as food, pharma, ethanol, etcetera, are doing quite well. And of course, then you have the added impetus of certain, renewable based industries, such as municipal waste incineration, which is coming in in a small manner, which makes up a much larger percentage of our order book internationally. So, we're quite happy with that. But now these are all, of course, inquiries and and and leads. The issue will will be conversion. And so we are looking further at a growth of the market from 7.40 megawatts to a, a data double digit rate. I need to insert that the broad indication here. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. Sure, sir. Thanks and all the rest for the minutes. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sri Lanka from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. So firstly, what was the contribution of these new products in the quarter 4 top line? You know, that's difficult. And, you know, the little bit of it, this is a little sensitive. So, You know, it's it's a Wrong number would help. A blocked number would help. Haven't really I haven't really worked it out. Maybe offline, you can try. I haven't I haven't really, got a figure, in front of me, from the team. But, it's not really the the sales so much as some of these as I as one of the questions. Is the, the raw material parts and the, which we've reduced very substantially and the testing and testing globally that, affected our margins. Okay. Okay. Given that, you know, we have plans to enter into newer geographies, are there any new products, to be launched in the pipeline, which is in the R and D right now? Yes. You see, we can answer your first question a little bit better. In Q3, there were 9 turbines and in Q4, there were 13 turbines in this range. And there are certain turbines in q 1 of this year, which have also been accounted for, within the the total lot of, as we have suggested. So going forward, the fact is that, like chairman suggested, the re engineering and the and the the revalidations has been carried out and so quite we're we're confident about costs. And the costs that were to be incurred have been absorbed already within the figure for this year. Okay. So what I was trying to get is, you know, better clarity, you know, going forward, you know, when you sell more of these new products, would the margins be similar to your historical margins, in these designs? Or I didn't do this similar, but, of course, our business is a dynamic business. We are a technology driven business, which has continuously striving and aiming to innovate. And so, therefore, we have to continuously introduce new products into the market. As it so happens, in this particular product introduction, we had certain problems and which we have addressed both structurally process wise as well as, through a variety of different cost pressures. I I think I think one of the things that I might mention is that through this experience of q 3q4, we have we we figured out that testing was a risk factor. So we have spent this money in now having indigenous testing in Bangalore, which is already operational in May. We had to outsource this to Milan and other places which one have a higher cost. To the parts of the area where, because they are an hours and things like that, you're not enrolled on the wrist. And and and secondly, you can't do it again and again, you want to hear the iterative process. So knowing that our R and D is continual, we had the uh-uh, cash flow and everything to to incur it. It takes a little time to implement, but, this is all over in Q1. The, the, the, the expenditures and the, commissioning of this testing. So we are quite, we will continually be be doing this. So we have, you know, we are confident now about the stability of margins. Of course, where the job there will be a difference between domestic and international. And that is a fluid point. You know, we are attacking all geographies. So, we find that what I didn't mention is we find that maybe we get better traction domestically in future order booking in FY 'twenty. Where we are more confident. I think after the election, settles down from Q2 onwards, we should get improvement in order booking and the domestic market. Okay. Thanks. So you have to do some CapEx to set up this, testing infrastructure in the language? It's already been done. Okay. What was the CapEx towards setting up the facility? We mentioned 22 cross of, buried across. Ah, yeah. But this is a question about both costs and CapEx. It is under 10. It is not the amount of costs. It's the time it takes. Okay. Okay. And all the new products that you'll be looking to launch in the future this activity would, be helpful. You know, you you need not outsource the testing going forward. No. No. That's that's exactly right. Great. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Just wanted to, get you used on the pricing environment currently. I mean, basically, has the pricing improved, or has it deteriorated or has it remained stable? Given the fact that I noticed that, our gross margin Irania has seen a kind of compression. And this is in spite of the fact that after sales growth has been pretty good. Really, and, the rupee has also depreciated which should benefit us, because of exports. So Now that's a very good question. We are on the domestic front, we've seen low pricing for about 6 years now. 5 years at least. This is driven by, at the same time, a decline in the market at the which has happened over the same period. And so we've there is intense competition and there's there's pricing pressure. Having said that, we never take proper, orders at, losses or subsidized projects. So the fact is that, yes, we do have a considerably lower margin in the domestic market. Internationally, up until about a year ago, when we had sort of a depreciation in the rupee, you had a somewhat volatile pricing environment. It changes from sector to sector country to country. So very difficult to say because demand is not a marginist, and so therefore, pricing is not a marginist. In India, we can confidently say that it is a very weak pricing environment we recently been able to pass through certain costs, but I think that we'll see how how we're able to do that in the longer term. The only guy will tell in general, globally, the pricing environment is tough. But having said that, that's why our efforts towards value engineering and cost reduction is extremely important. And and that that was a real driver for having this testing and keeping on doing R and D. There's no option in it. But have you seen the power producers in the higher ranges have gone through a real turmoil and and they've had a a huge capacity with a and and layoffs and all that. So they're they're now competing and arranged as well. Got it, sir. And, this 740 megawatt that you had mentioned, that is related to 0 to 30 megawatt, right, I mean. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can give a flavor of the larger range, you know, the 32 and above. So So I don't have that detail with me, but I can say that it I wouldn't imagine it to be more than about two hundred megawatts. In domestic market. But, is there a scope for it to improve? Because, see, if you see, Greenfield expansion when it happens for larger industry will happen in the larger in the higher range. So that's why I said we've been a little, disappointed in the in the order inflow in the in the JV, but some just to do with the environment, and we are putting pressure on DAG in the internationals here. Okay. But, interestingly, so, if he has a, I mean, are are we in a good position, say, in a couple of orders, wholesale orders, Well, we we will know more, in the next few quarters. We are undertaking a deeper survey of the larger range in the JV range. Got it, sir. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Nandan Bharatak from Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. So my question is about the same GATL potential. So what is, if you can give some idea about, potential revenue of, from GATL that we are expecting? You know, of course, the fact is that, the expectations are high. We also have high expectations as we see soft or very low growth in the in the in the below 30 megawatt market. We have high expectations. It's in this segment. And so we're going to be looking at it very recently to see how we can, expand our coverage, expand inquiries so that we can get better visibility and therefore, ultimately, more orders. We know that we are cost competitive and we have, as we pointed out, a very good global market below 30 megawatts. And so we should be able to get a good, market above. I think some work is required, and we'll have to get back to you in that. Okay. And, another question is about the global market size of biomass segment that we are, market leader now. What would be the size of global market? You know, the fact is that, that data doesn't break down exactly that matter I I could confidently tell you that near near 90 percent of our international orders are in the renewable sector. Yeah. You know, the difficult difficulty to in the renewable, you are both waste to energy, protein, and biomass. So pretty much, it depends on the particular geography, but there's more growth in waste to energy. Okay. Okay. Okay, excellent. Thanks. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Pavan Makhlani from SBM mutual fund. Please go ahead. Good evening, gentlemen. Good evening, good evening. Could you help us, sir, because in India, we are seeing orders coming from the refinery side. And last year, you had a breakthrough order for KNPC. Are you actually seeing potential of, getting orders from the domestic refining segment or any of these drive top point opportunities on the international arena that you called? Good question. Good question. You know, in the international sphere, the first thing is to get yourself registered and prequalified. So we've we've we've been this has taken a long time, but we were we were at the Kuwait, National Petroleum. So we are in few other countries now in the Middle East, we've been registered. So, and in Southeast Asia. So we are now, in a in a in a field where we will be and with this oil price having gone back, to, comfortable levels, they are starting to have, newer inquiries coming out. So we expect to live in FY 'twenty. But you you're right. They have been downstream investment in India, and which is largely led through EL. We we have missed one opportunity because the lack of, approval of EIL, which is very stringent in terms of prequalification, but I think that is true now. So we should be, very, very optimistic on on on looking at this market in India as well. We I don't think that demand is as large as they may get out to be. So it's, it's, it's a segment which will, which for us will be much smaller than, say, molasses based ethanol distilleries or sugar regeneration people. Internationally, it's a much larger market from a downstream perspective. I Utilizer will be a larger segment in India, but those are more than the DPS say at this point in time. K. My last question is, are you expecting a double digit growth in the revenues, if you actually stretch yourself a bit further, are you expecting that the, the orders in fiscal 'twenty could be high double digit, which will actually a further acceleration in the growth rates in 20? Well, you know, this is now the $1,000,000. We do expect a very good growth rate in order booking in FY 'twenty. We have, some expectations from the market, as I said, but there is some impact of Q1 being slow, because of the election. And, but I think, our order booking for FY 'twenty budgeted right now is on a higher basis than what we achieved in FY 'nineteen. But I was looking specifically at certain, a good breakthrough order is coming from our refurbishment segment. Refurbishment, is is unpredictable from a margin perspective, but we're hopeful that it will it will be at least product level to start better. Sure. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ashishyanan from Elekroyuki Advisers. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. The first few questions were, you know, with relation to the new product introductions. Oh, I just wanted to understand, is this a brand new product that's gonna allow us to cater to an earlier on that market altogether? Or is it just a new variant that's gonna let us gain share in the market that we already keep into? It's a letter. It's a variant of the share of the market that we're already in there. But the variant is very important because you could call it a new market, you could call it. I mean, the If you look at the whole market of waste to energy, you have to you have to hit many sectors of it. So you need product adaptations to to, satisfy the customer's requirement in terms of cost and efficiency and certain features So this is very, we're not a mass production, shop. So there's a bit of, value engineering. There's a bit of R and D. There's a bit of new technologies that you have to keep up to date with all the time. Okay. Excellent. Professor using it on my second question. I was on the team question, you know, that this, you know, constantly kind of, innovating tweaking trying to bring out greater efficiencies from our coverings. And, therefore, it's just a kind of a one off kind of thing in expense, or I think it's more on the nature of an ongoing kind of an expense And therefore, why are you calling in this particular year? Oh, there you see, it is ongoing, but sometimes you want to make quantum jumps in, attacking a a particular segment of a market, you know, that you may not have touched. So we, I I it is ongoing, but, as I said, we have now completed the loop of doing it, testing it, and then going, and then going and refining it again. So, this is something that is, takes time to actually fully implement. It's a very high decline. The team to find, and, you know, we, we have 100% engineering and R&D, in our own facilities. We are not dependent on any outside sort for, for for this knowledge base. So, the accumulation of risk is now complete in terms of the process. So we're quite confident of being able to adapt our products to the future needs of the customer. Okay. And I just want to confirm the program has been successfully. It's just that it has costs more than we were, previously expected. But I will be introducing this production for the month. We have already introduced. Perfect. Excellent. Well, if you could just squeeze in one more question. You you have made a comment saying that in international, the bulk of our orders or revenues actually coming in from the Renewable segment, Would this, therefore, be fair to see if that improves the score gain on receipt, we're getting a lower share and took the reasons for that? No. No. We have received this part of any of the waste sheet. We we include waste sheet and renewables. Anything that is not using, a thermal, it's possible. Sorry. Go on. You're right, but the the your reading that that our market share in the process could be much lower. Any particular arrangements for this? One is coverage. The second is the risk versus of of people making decisions as we As you see, there's the, segments of renewable energy are more integrally driven and people make decisions based on on payback as a decision maker themselves, as opposed to process industries, which are which are more, managerial as a decision making and risk of us, I mean, said that we've had very good, some of the largest buyers out there on the process for gen side in the paper or, even alumni side still do, and we do get entry. It's a question of coverage. And I think that that will that will expand as we get installed basis in more geographies. And so continuously, we will aim to get a better share. But very frankly, you should know from a demand perspective that process cogent globally, does not have as large a mark. Uh-uh. It's not as large a segment that I as renewables is. Also, by the way, when we talk about it, this is a question of being number 1 or too. So we're in a pretty high visibility area now. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Anan Bablani from Unifi. Please go ahead. Alright, sir. If I were to see a consolidated performance, Actually, the share of profit of joint venture is 2.64inq4. So, can you share us share us with us the reason for sharp improvement here? There was just some dispatches that took place at that point in time. I I I just pointed out the the cons the earnings of the joint venture was somewhere around PAT was about 9 crores. The adjustments because of, certain expenses or or or incoming booked in both heads was mitigated out. And so, ultimately, it came because of a revenue that was incurred in Q4, which is specifically towards certain aftermarket revenue. Okay. And, there's no one of any reversal of charges or, of the credit bureau business income. Yes. Okay. And, sir, secondly, if I were to sorry? I did not even. Okay. Secondly, sir, if I were to see our order booking in export segment, in FY 17, it was 300 crores. In FY 'eighteen, it was 420. And in FY 'nineteen, it's 416. So year on year order booking in exports has, in fact, a de grown a bit or it's flattish. So any particular reason, I mean, it has this order booking in FY19 of 416 through next exports met your own expectation? And what is the outlook, for No. You're not in house. This was a forced hire in our anticipation as whichever put it is to grow faster than this. But having said that, even at this pace, the market is is somewhat soft and given our global market say, if you stop to fight for every order that goes ahead. And the market has dropped in the last 3 years. The overall world market has dropped because as the fossil fuel market has dropped. So, we are fortunate that we are in a line where it is slightly spending, but the overall market in 5 to 30 megawatts is not the same as it was 3, 4 years ago. So can you quantify for for us, so that you have a better sense of how Yes. There's nobody who has figures for the whole world in the market. You know, there's no source. There's no tables that can be got. But we can know that the orders placed are less. So, the, I I would, I I I wouldn't have the figure, but we can try offline to see what's the estimate, maybe. But, basically, the the the the real question is that we have not seen a, a decline in the renewables. We've seen an increase in the renewables market. And so there we can see now that we have a new range of product for this market, we are we're able to forecast some some some increases in in sales in FY 2020. Sure. And then lastly, the way we had product development expenses, in Q3 and Q4. Are any new further products being contemplated which can lead to similar expenses in FY 'twenty? Nothing that has not been planned. Nothing that has they've they've we could previously have to spend on the research development test and training. So, nothing that is not that. Nothing that is unforeseen. These these were really unforeseen and Right. And they would auto add. This is why we have been we bought everything in house now. So we can able we are the the the the risk factor comes when it's not in house. It's decided that that is not worth it in the long term when we are going to be continually doing this. Exactly to answer your question. And, sir, lastly, in this product, a testing and product development expenses, we see a lot of it is cost of goods, So, eventually, these cost of goods are it's it's it's timely for the prototype development which we don't sell and that cost you to pay. Yeah. We sell everything. There's no the prototype is also sold. Oh, you you you see, you do, sir, you're developers that you value into there. It's a question of reducing costs continually. So it's not really, we're not having a write offs. Okay. Maybe just the margins are not as good as the convenience. Would that be the right way to trade? Correct. But that's for the pro what do you call prototype with the first stop? Yeah. Okay. Fine. I'll come back here. Okay. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Laila Ram Singh from Ygrene Securities. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. This is Alicia Kamisha. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question is regarding this, can you provide the breakup of domestic order inflow between the product as well as the aftermarket for FY 'nineteen and FY 'eighteen? Between products and aftermarket. Products and It is good. Yeah. Yeah. Product, the aftermarket, has gone up by 7%. Okay. Product is minus 1%. In in the international sphere. Okay. And for domestic and order booking, domestic. It's a division working. I'm gonna say 7. Domestic has gone up by 7% Whereas, I'm talking about the product. Divestic has gone up by 7%. Exports have come down by 1%, And if you look at the aftermarket, in the case of aftermarket, there is an increase of 13%. In aftermarket. Okay. So this number here which you have given me is for domestic markets. Between product and aftermarket. So, product has grown by 7% and aftermarket by 13% in FY2019. Alright. Because that's the order I'll just do it. That's fine. I think, Maria. I'll just give you that That is the first. Definitely. So domestic has come down by 5%. In the case of aftermarket, domestic has come down by 5%. And aftermarket exports has gone up by 49%. Aftermarket exports have gone up 49%. And the domestic, please come down by 5%. I have mentioned that in my opening remarks. Okay. So for the domestic market, aftermarket has grown or de grown. It's not it's not a market. It's it's not a But you know, these have this is a little lumpy. It goes up and down. Okay. Do you have any other question? Nothing. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Thank you very much. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ashwini Sharma from Prabhata's keylada. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. So, on the international markets, what would be our current inquiry pipeline? If you can just give me that number. Oh, it's quite healthy. I think it's about 2 and a half a gigawatts. Yeah. So, no, that's it. And that would be mainly from the renewal side or So this is everywhere, but it was definitely lost due towards renewables yet. And on the domestic side, what would be the number? I would say, I think it's I I don't have the premium battery, but I'm gonna get it somewhere around about a gigawatt 1 gigawatt. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of from your device. Please go ahead. In in one of the questions, sir, you highlighted that, you are expecting, you know, double digit growth in, in in the space in slide 20. Now, sir, you also said that q 1 in terms of order intake is likely to be a bit weak. So, you know, sir, just to do this calculation, I think But I mean, it's going to be weak, but better than but better than FY18. Okay. Sir, you know, just a simple thing. I think we we need to have order intake. It needs to be, like, front ended in order to be, you know, a double digit growth for FY 'twenty overall. So I I I would believe that for that thing, you would have a fair amount of visibility as to amount of order conversion in the first two quarters is that? Yes. That is right. K. So that's you hit the nail on the head. The the only way we can do that is to talk about booking bill in the first two quarters. From the inquiry pipeline and what we've achieved up to, mid May. Correct. And I would believe that, that visibility is fairly high. I mean, that is what we that that is our analysis today. To save this. Otherwise, it's not possible. Right. Right. Right. Thanks. And and secondly, sir, what would be the current capacity utilization for about We've got plenty of capacity. We've got 40% more, 50% more. That's it's part of a business of and, you know, we put up the new factories on for a So we Yes. We we, have another capacity. We can take large orders from the JV. We can take large orders from from 5 to 30. There's there's no problem there. Yes? Mister? Hello? That doesn't answer your question. Hello? Sir, we couldn't hear you for a minute. If you have a question, you need to please record this. Yeah. Sorry. So I was asking that you since you mentioned that you have a So that is an account of, since you can work on, 2 shift and 3 shift basis. That is how it is extra capacity? No. Even in the 2 shifts, the the the the the some some machines are 1 shift, some are 2 shifts, and the others are assembly. And we have a very good, lots of suppliers, dedicated suppliers around us in Bangalore So we have their capacities. So this is why the capacity utilization is not a problem. And as you know, the We have a very low CapEx, which we put up the plant with. So there's no further expenditure needed on any CapEx to increased capacity. It's a question of, getting the order. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Nandan Wirtha from Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for the follow-up. So, actually, my question was about CapEx only, what we have done in FY19 and what is, what would be in, FY 20? I think we're not a different CapEx. Yeah. I think it's just what we finish in the Q1. Very strong. Okay. So what would be maintenance CapEx range, if you could Alright. Avadulina. 574s. Okay. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ana Deplani from Unifi County. Please go ahead. Sir, in terms of a order book for GTN, what's the year end figure for FY19 and what was it at the end of FYIT? Okay. While we get the trigger, I think you're surprised to say that our order booking has been weak as we pointed out. So, will you will you get it to your flight now? Booking has One order. Yeah. So is it that the order booking in the year has been disappointing? As I said in my opening remarks for FY19 and G here. Okay. So in terms of the way we have, you know, order booking in terms of growth given for rest of the business, Anything you can give us in total? In FY, FY18, we had a booking of 390,000,000 and a net order and and a closing order book of 154,000,000. Sorry. 1540,000,000. And this year, we had a order booking of 479,000,000 and a closing order book of a 100 1272,000,000. Okay. Okay. And so the overall from sugar distillery, can you give us a sense of what's the order book that you already received? We don't have that pickup over here. We really not, going down sectorially. Okay. But, sectorally, in sugar, broadly, can you give us a sense for the, the order and inquiries have started flowing to the extent that we have anticipated, let's say, 6 months earlier when the policy was first announced, Or is it is weaker than It's sort of different from distillery. Sugarco generation is a lumpy independent on, on other factors. It doesn't availability, the gas, etcetera. And I think that that will be not much a stable, but that's been on it to our expectation. As to our expectation, the decision is what has exceeded our expectations, but that also will have to wait and see as to If that continues, for the last 2, 3 months, we haven't seen anything in the segment because of election, then if it's gonna be continuity to government policy. Okay. Frances. Thank you. Thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. Thank you everybody. Thank you very much for the conference call at 19, I'd like to just end by saying that we look forward to FY 2020 very positively. We're seeing much better performance on both top and bottom line for the for the for the new year. We have a good inquiry book on the basis of which we're able to to make these statements And we have successfully implemented our, our, various productions and our testing. So we are in good shape for, for the coming quarters after the election, of Q1 has stabilized, in, in the next month or so. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of That concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining. You may disconnect your lines now.