Triveni Turbine Limited (BOM:533655)
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Q1 18/19

Aug 1, 2018

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to the Triveni Turbine Limited Q1 FY 2019 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rishab Barar from CDR India. Thank you, over to you, sir.

Rishab Barar
Analyst, CDR India

Thank you. Good day, everyone, a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Q1 FY 2019 earnings call for Triveni Turbine Limited. We have with us today on the call Mr. Dhruv Sawhney, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Nikhil Sawhney, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which has been mailed to everybody earlier. I would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all invitees, it may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will start this call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have an interactive question and answer session.

I now invite Mr. Dhruv Sawhney to share some perspectives with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you, Gavin. Welcome, everyone, to the Q1 conference call. I'd like to take you through our results for the first three months. I think the main thing is that we've had an all-time high turnover in the first quarter. Besides which, we have a net income from operations growth at INR 1.72 billion of 41%, a PAT of INR 190 million, which has also shown a growth of 48%. Importantly, for the future, we've had a strong order intake, about 11% growth over Q1 of last year. In that, the domestic order booking has grown by 43%, I'll come to this a little later. All in all, we have a strong outstanding order book at INR 7.8 billion. EPS is INR 0.58 per share.

The domestic market under 30 MW has shown signs of revival, some bulk orders have got finalized, and this is what has spurred our growth by 43%. Enquiries have also improved, active enquiries, from segments such as sugar, cement, steel, and even a little bit in waste-to-energy. In the international market, it is a little lumpy. While we have seen an increase of enquiries of 12% in the international market from the Q1 versus last year, the order bookings, many of which have got postponed to the Q2. We are in the end of July, in the starting of August. We are confident that in H1, our international order bookings for the first half of the current year will be as per our budget and very good versus last year.

The mix of order bookings in Q1 has gone up towards the domestic side, this will again get corrected in H1 with our improved order booking, some of which has already happened in the month of July. The aftermarket segment has performed very well, with a growth of 44% over Q1 last year. In terms of order booking, which is crucial, we have seen a growth of 32% versus last year. The encouraging fact is that the export market in after-sales has now started showing a fair amount of traction. We have an outstanding aftermarket order book of 65%. This is the effort that we put into our offices overseas and having salespeople and service people traveling a lot, and it's slowly coming about.

The second major thing in the international market, besides being lumpy from one quarter to another, is that we have succeeded in diversifying our geographical spread and also our spread in the product categories. What happens in one market gets compensated in another market in a half-yearly basis, and also gets compensated from one sector to another sector in a particular market. The dedicated team that we have in R&D has started bearing fruit because the number of new models that we have introduced have allowed us to cater to new segments and new geographical areas, which we had not done for the past two years. This has also helped us in remaining more cost-competitive. As you know, in the international market, the power sector has not been doing very well.

Triveni Turbine is fortunate that our sector in the export market is mainly concerned with waste-to-energy, biomass, which is the growing renewable sector, and some process industries. When you look at the broad brush of what's happening in the power market, especially the very large power market, it doesn't apply to our spread. I will be commenting on our joint venture, GE Triveni, in a minute, but I'm wanting to concentrate this on the under 30 MW segment. Our new generation blades profile, which had been under development, a number of them have been put into operation. Our ICT is building up in a very consistent manner. In the domestic market, the spread that we have in sugar cogeneration, metal, and process cogeneration is good, and we are able to cater to what is the customer requirement in these areas.

Coming to our joint venture, GE Triveni Limited. The overall performance has been better than the year before. The JV were able to book orders for INR 305 million during this period. The orders on hand and the inquiry pipeline from the international market is encouraging. We are looking at good bookings in Q2 and Q3. We're not waiting till the last quarter of the current year. Those are very active, some of which are getting postponed because of the economic conditions overseas. Our spread here, again, in geographical territories is good. We're looking at Southeast Asia, and we are looking at some parts of Europe.

The increased order book from the exports and our aftermarket business and having a strong forward-looking order book and a very good inquiry pipeline makes one believe that we will have a much stronger year in terms of both revenue and margin and bottom line. This will be clear much better in our H1. We are seeing visibility of this because of our strong orders on hand. This is a situation different from where we were three months ago. The evenly spreading of order booking in various markets is the main takeaway that I'd like to tell you, which gives the confidence of going forward in the years to come.

We have also looked at our R&D efforts, are looking at new products, which we hope to introduce in the years to come, and further feedback that we've got from customers as they're changing onto value engineering and cost improvements for the current short term. There's no reason why they will not be as successful as we have been in the developments we did in the last 12 months, which has started bearing fruit in the margin improvement, which we will have in the current year versus last year. Our margins which we feel are better, have come from a spread of our orders in different geographical territories, a better overhead absorption, and a better mix of products in terms of the various geographical sectors that we cater for.

That is where we have in our orders on hand. That is why we are able to give the confidence in the projections of the current year. More importantly, the order inquiry pipeline, which brings us to FY 2020, is also following the same mix and the same format. I think where we have concentrated on various geographies and concentrating export-wise on biomass, waste to energy, and targeted process cogen is paying off because these are not seeing the same downturn in terms of market that has happened in other power sectors. I'd like to now open the questions to the floor, just to end by saying that today I'm standing here in a much better optimistic position, having had this order book and the spread of geographies than possibly was there three, four months ago. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star 1 on their touchtone telephone. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.

Ravi Swaminathan
Analyst, Spark Capital

Hi, sir. My first question is with respect to the domestic market. You had mentioned in your press release that you have started seeing some kind of an inquiry uptick. Just wanted to get a sense from you as to what was the market size last year in the 0 to 30 megawatt, what it is currently, and what it could possibly end at by the end of this year. Do you see this kind of inquiry generation sustaining over the next few quarters also because there is a general election also which is coming up. Could that hamper the inflow in the second half? That is my first question.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yes. Well, if we look at Q1 last year versus Q1 this year, it's from 125 to 300. Let's not go on that huge percentage increase. The domestic market has picked up. My thoughts on the following quarters is definite improvement over last year. Last year was very bad. The first quarter, you know that there was the GST and all that coming in. We should not take the low base of the last quarter last year. Even looking at what was actually the market situation in Q2, Q3, Q4 last year, domestically, I see an improvement this year, which is taking us to close to where the elections are. The visibility I'm seeing now, and this has come by analyzing our active inquiries. We're not really going by market trends or something, more for 2019-2020.

In 2019-2020, I don't want to say something because we have the general election coming in. For the current year, which is order booking in 2018-2019, which means performance in 2019-2020, we are very positive, and that is really not influenced by the election either in the states or in the center in the next 12 months.

Ravi Swaminathan
Analyst, Spark Capital

Okay. What would be the market size, sir, year to 30 as of now?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Like we said, the Q1 number of orders placed was about 300 megawatts as compared to 125 megawatts. The annualized market last year was about 750 megawatts. We anticipate the growth would be over 20% on that.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah, it could be. It is a substantial growth. There is a revival.

Ravi Swaminathan
Analyst, Spark Capital

Okay. Along with the improvement in ordering, is the pricing also improving?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

That is a very good question. There has been marginal up to now, but with the increased order intake, we are definitely confident of a better because there's more to eat for everybody.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Competitive intensity.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The competitive intensity is there, less the expectation level. Everyone is having more orders, and everyone is seeing further orders. There is a little tendency of not having certain price points which could be used by other people in the same sector. We are actually changing our price points.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Also there's a marginal pass-through of costs which will take place. There will be price increases.

Ravi Swaminathan
Analyst, Spark Capital

Got it, sir. In terms of exports is a fair share of our revenue. The recent rupee depreciation, has it made us more competitive? In the sense whichever geography-

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We were not losing orders based on price anyway. The fact is that what it will do is will be better from a margin perspective for us, as well as allow us to pass through anything.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

A further question is that actually, the rupee depreciation in the last three months is mainly going to see order conclusions in the next quarters. That's making those very competitive, the ones which you put out, because these are dollar quotes. You are in a much better position versus international competition, not Indian competition, in the foreign market of inquiries, the active inquiries which are under negotiation for Q2, Q3. That's why I made a feeling that our margins in order bookings in the current year will be better than what we had in the previous year, in exports and overall.

Ravi Swaminathan
Analyst, Spark Capital

Got it. I'll come back in the queue, sir, for more questions. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Pawan Parakh from Renaissance Investment. Before that, I would like to remind all participants, if you have a question, please press star and one. Thank you.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Yeah, good afternoon, sir. My first question is, sir, while in this quarter, margins are better YOY, we are about 17%. In this quarter, we've had more of exports and even after-market revenues have also done reasonably well. Shouldn't our margins have been closer to the 19%, 20% that we generally report?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. That's a good question. You see, quite a lot of the dispatch of the Q1 has come from last year, and these are almost ready, and these are the ones that have been dispatched this year. The mix was different. It was not really dependent on our order bookings this year. We are really looking at the legacy of nine months ago and what had happened, because that's really the dispatch part of what you had in the current quarter. That's why I'm confident of H1, where the second quarter is going to show an improvement over what we had here in margin. That is very in line with what you're saying. The improved aftermarket, the improved diversification in the export, is what is going to make the margin better in the next few quarters.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay. Sir, you mean that last year, some of the orders that we've taken were at lower margins and those have come into execution now?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Relatively lower margin.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The mix was different to what we have now. The mix of aftermarket was different when we fixed those orders then. You're looking at a higher aftermarket today. This will get reflected back in your future margins.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

There's another thing that as we operate with a certain amount of fixed costs, as we tend closer to about INR 200 crore turnover on a quarterly basis, we have much better overhead absorption. What you'd see from our results is, yes, our material costs may have gone up, which is a reflection of product mix, but overall margins are impacted by fixed costs also. Which, if you look at it over a period of time of the business, which is over the next quarter as well as the subsequent quarters, it will all get evened out.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay. Sir, secondly, we've been seeing deferment of orders on and off, both domestic and exports earlier. The order inflow has been pretty good this time. Is it that some of the earlier deferred orders, they have actually kicked in, or these are like new inquiries which have materialized for us?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. Especially in our joint venture, GETL, some of the orders are taking a little longer for them to pick up, and we expect that in Q2. To answer your question, no, this is not anything. These are all new business.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

This is not the deferment.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay. Sir, you mentioned the inquiries are good from segments like sugar cogen and a couple of them. Cement, steel also. I mean, in this quarter, what has worked for us in terms of better order inflows with segments?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The same segments.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay. Essentially, sir, I mean, given that Q1 has been really good, for FY 2018, we haven't had a very great revenue growth.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

This year, actually, we should be compensating for the lost revenue growth of FY 2018 also and at normalized margin. That is the fairest expectation?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We definitely are going to have revenue growth, we definitely are going to have margin growth. We don't give a guidance on this, what you have mentioned as a trend is correct.

Pawan Parakh
Analyst, Renaissance Investment

Okay, great. Thanks all the best, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Chirag Muchhala from Nirmal Bang. Please go on.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Hello.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Hello.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Hello.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yes.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Basically, the question first is on the aftermarket services side. In this quarter, we have seen increased order inflow as well as a very high order backlog in the aftermarket, basically around INR 73 crores worth of inflow compared to normally INR 45 crores-INR 50 crores quarterly inflow run rate that we had. You mentioned in opening commentary that overseas markets has contributed to it. Is there any larger refurbishment orders in it? Should we assume because of this overseas offices getting more, this to be a normalized run rate going forward?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

You see, what I want to tell you is we've been successful in this quarter, but this is not reflective. You can't take one quarter's performance and then put it as an average over the rest of the year. Even when one's done well, I caution that. The point that we have got one deal, some refurbishment orders. What we are all very happy about is that there has been this success in our perseverance with these export offices, and we are concentrating on the aftermarket in the export offices, i.e., being close to the customer, giving him confidence that we can service him. These are the reasons why we took the expense of putting up these facilities overseas.

While I definitely feel that the overall business is going to be higher, I can't make a projection of exactly what it's going to be because this business is lumpy from quarter to quarter.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Sir, second question is on the GE Triveni side. There have been international media reports that GE has decided basically to divest its stake from the Baker Hughes, which is joint venture, which basically holds stake in our company, GE Triveni joint venture. Any update on that side? I mean, what happens if GE actually divests the stake to this JV?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Now, Chirag, I would not like to comment on something that's in the media or coming from another company. All I know is that there's nothing that is in front of us today and nothing that I can see in this financial year or going forward. What may happen in the distant future is something that we'll keep you apprised of the moment we are aware of something that has a relevance to Triveni Turbine.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. I mean, even as of now also, the international marketing of the GE Triveni continues to be handled by GE people or do we handle it now?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No, it's being handled by GE. Exactly, it's the same as it was before.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Sir, the last question on the API turbine side. I mean, sir, a few quarters back, we had won that breakthrough order on API turbines from Middle East.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Any more business updates from that? Any more orders that we have secured? What is the progress on execution of those turbines that we have got?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Very good question. The customer, even though API customer and Kuwait National Petroleum Company, we have now delivered them. That offtake was delayed a bit. We expect them in operation in the next few months. Which is a bit true. Getting registration from places like Aramco and others has taken much longer than one thought. It's nothing that is in our control. We are a small part of their purchasing overall. We are pursuing it. We are getting some inquiries, but the finalization of those inquiries are taking longer. This is really not something that is in our control. All I can say is that our reception from oil producing companies and from these very high, good margin, new sector markets has been good. When we go to the consultants, when we go to the parties, we are well received.

We are not saying that they don't want to hear. They just say you have to follow our procedures, and they take this time. This is really still a focus area.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Sir, any addressable market, the size that you can mention where we are already qualified and where we can bid for API turbines?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No, it is by parts of the Middle East we can.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We are hoping that we can get some breakthroughs in Southeast Asia in the near future.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay, sir. Any numbers that can be put around addressable market size in terms of, let's say megawatt or gigawatt?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Addressable market size is very high, but I would like to put that till we are qualified. Addressable means to us.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Right. For us.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. I'd rather approach that question once we get into the question of getting inquiry.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Okay, sir. Finally, what would be the GE Triveni JV's order book as of now?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

164.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

164.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Yeah, okay. Okay, sir. Thanks a lot, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question. It's from the line of Anand Bhavnani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Thank you for the opportunity.

Operator

Absolutely.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Sir, can you give us some sense of the current capacity utilization within our GE joint venture and the standalone Triveni Turbine?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Well, I think it's the same because the joint venture doesn't manufacture. Manufacturing of turbines for the JV is done by Triveni Turbine.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Sir, what would be the capacity utilization on a combined basis?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

I think we are with the 50, 60% mark. Because there's a lot of outsourcing and there's bought out equipment. We can grow very substantially. You can take at least that, and with some small changes, even more. 40% is easy.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

As you know, in our new facility, we only have two bays commissioned right now, and currently we don't have.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Space for five.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. Sir, if I were to track the order book, like looking at the last three, four years order book at the end of first quarter. In 2014 it was INR 7.6 billion. In 2015, it was INR 7.8 billion. Again, in 2016 it was close to INR 7 billion. We haven't been able to increase our order book beyond this INR 7 billion, INR 8 billion rupee number. When do you see this crossing, let's say INR 10 billion, INR 11 billion kind of a number?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Let me tell you what we've done. If you look at some of the players in the power field, their turnovers have gone down very substantially, as you must have noticed. We have been able to weather this thing internationally very well by diversifying our sectors. Now, I think we are positioned well to take up because the sectors we are in have now started showing fruit. We are quite confident that with our offices now starting to kick in terms of post product and after-sales service, and with a number of units having been commissioned overseas. That takes time. It's not only dependent on us, it's dependent on the customer having his other facilities and commissioning his power plant. That will start seeing traction in the current year, but very much so in 2019, 2020.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. Sir, can you give us a breakup of our Q1 revenues in terms of turbine sales, aftermarket, and refurbishment?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Aftermarket is the same, about 24% of the turnover is from the aftermarket. We include refurbishment in the aftermarket segment.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. That 24% is turbine sales.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Sir, margins-wise, how would be the split between these two segments?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Aftermarket is, of course, much better, but I don't think we give breakups.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. Sir, order book, you mentioned the mix had changed. We have higher Aftermarket. Can you give a sense of the order book split in terms of Aftermarket and turbine?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. It's in the investor brief, but I can get it out. It's in the investor brief. The split of order booking is a split of orders on hand in Aftermarket and I'll just get it. One minute.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

13% of the order book is aftermarket.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

13% of the order book is aftermarket.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

That's INR 103 crores.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

You must understand that aftermarket has a much quicker cycle than the product. Looking at the opening order book and saying doesn't mean that the turnover is going to be in that same split, because the book and bill is much quicker in aftermarket than it is in product.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. Sir, earlier in the call you gave a couple of figures I couldn't understand, if you can explain. You gave a number 300 MW order placed versus the 125 MW last year. What was this number in relation to?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

One second. The question was: what was the domestic market now versus last year? We gave a figure of what we believe was the market in Q1 last year overall and this year, but with a caveat to say that because it was a very low base last year, this increase should not be looked at as a percentage way of forecasting the future increase. Though we expect the domestic market in the following quarters to also be higher than the last year's market.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Sir, if I were to look at these numbers, in terms of MW, the number in Q1 this year is roughly 140% higher. Has it translated into commensurate rise in revenue?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. See, an order booked today, it will translate into revenue in 9-12 months. This is the time cycle of the power generation steam turbine business.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Yeah, sorry. I should expect revenues to be 140% higher given the order book is 140% higher in megawatt terms?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. Let's make a differentiation. We talked about overall markets going up. We talked about our orders going up. We had a 43% increase in the domestic order. This will come in the quarters, three quarters from now, four quarters from now, a reflection in the dispatches.

Anand Bhavnani
Analyst, Unifi Capital

Okay. Fine. I'll come back in the queue.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Renjith Sivaram from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Yeah. Hi, sir. Congrats on good set of numbers. It's really heartening to see the revenues going up. I just wanted to get some clarity, like you were expecting sugar and co-gen has a good growth driver, when we look at the overall sugar scenario, it's in a very bad shape.

Just wanted to understand that where are these orders coming because the sugar mills are not performing well.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Good question. Let me tell you, in the group, we are also in sugar, we are very well aware. You see, sugar standalone has got problems in the environment. The driver for sugar companies is in the full exploitation of their co-products, which is molasses and bagasse. In molasses, is to put up ethanol plants, and you know the big incentives that have been given by the Government of India in funding and the priorities that's been given by the Prime Minister towards ethanol blending. Now these distilleries also have power generation equipment, and we've already got some orders. In the case of more crushing, because yields have gone up, there's more bagasse availability. Factories, to counteract low sugar prices, will have to get revenues from co-generated power, even though the rates are not going up.

They're still very viable in terms of having a diversified revenue stream for the sugar plant. It needs a revenue stream from ethanol, from power, and from sugar. That's why I'm saying.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

There's good funding for it.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The funding for the ethanol is there. It is not a problem of funding, both the Sugar Development Fund and the banking sector.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

You believe that even though the sugar prices and other things are in a bad shape, the sugar mills will continue to do the CapEx in terms of ethanol so that their overall yield will increase. That CapEx will continue?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

They have no option. They have to do it, otherwise they are not able to increase their profitability and revenue stream, and the risk factor is very large to rely only on the sugar market.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay. Apart from sugar, which other major sector you are seeing an uptick? Are you there in chemical fertilizers? Is there any uptick?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Well, without getting specific, the large segments are process Cogeneration.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

which includes certain sectors that we talked about. More than that, it has been metals and steel, and the inquiries from cement have been very strong also.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay. What was the impact of this rupee depreciation in this revenue growth? Because you mentioned that export had been a driver in terms of the revenue growth.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The rupee depreciation, we follow a process of hedge accounting, and a majority of our external, that is foreign currency receipts, are hedged. What you would see in terms of this currency depreciation of the rupee is when the new contracts get expired, you would find much better profitability because the rate including the forward premium would be somewhere in the region of about INR 72, INR 73 for dollar contracts.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay. This current revenue growth, there is no impact because of the rupee depreciation in the revenue growth?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay. Sir, if I missed it, what is the current market in captive co-gen in the domestic that you are seeing for this year? I heard it as around 750 MW. Is that the right number to look at? That was last year.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. No, I think this year we can be looking at over 900.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Around 900 MW?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah.

Renjith Sivaram
Analyst, ICICI Securities

Okay, sir. Thank you so much.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Ashutosh Mehta from Edelweiss. Before that, I would like to remind all participants, if you have a question, you may press star then one.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

Good afternoon, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Good afternoon.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

Yeah. This is more to dwell upon one of the questions which an earlier participant asked. If we look at the sales mix during this quarter, we have a larger portion of exports and aftermarkets. However, when we look at the gross margins, we see a decline there. Is there any specific one-off or end contract which has a lower margin, which we have delivered now?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. That's exactly my point, that this had been coming through from the previous year. That is exactly what happened.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

This was related to an export order?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

It was really our margin on our breakthrough. This is the execution of our first oil and gas.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

Okay.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

That was our first order, very big one. A lot more went into it than we thought, and very high certification and compliance procedures. We've learned the ropes, and all that is now accounted for and delivered.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

Okay. Do we have any other such orders in the order book?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No.

Ashutosh Mehta
Analyst, Edelweiss

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Vijay Gaur from First Global. Please go ahead.

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Hello.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yes, hello.

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Yeah, hi. Good evening, sir. Congratulations on good set of number. My question is here, sir. What are the margins levels we are expecting since the export contribution is really higher here and the margins is 17, sequentially is a low somewhere. What are the margins we are expecting for the next quarters?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

You see, we don't give a thing quarter on quarter. I want to just mention that when I mention two very positive things

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Okay

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

that we're looking at catching up higher margins in Q2 than what we got in Q1, and that the overall year margins are going to be higher than what we had last year. Because of being a capital equipment business, if something gets delivered in one month, it doesn't get delivered another month, and then the higher margin and a lower margin. One quarter, you may see a huge spurt in something, and then it's dangerous to take those as a projection for the future.

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Right.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

The trend is positive in margins, both on a half yearly basis and on the full yearly basis.

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Okay, sir. Yeah, thank you.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We are-

Vijay Gaur
Analyst, First Global

Thank you.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We are pretty on that.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Kirthi Jain from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Sir, with regard to earlier you highlighted that sugar co-gen. Sir, do you think that B-heavy processes will aid in CapEx for us, sir?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yes.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Which government had then researched.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. Most definitely, by the way. It will take a little time because, but many people are moving to ethanol distilleries on B-heavy . The government has increased the pricing of ethanol for B-heavy , which may make it further incentive, but they have to do that if we want to get our ethanol blending even up to 10%. We know it because, by the way, we are in that business and we are looking at it ourselves as a group.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Yes, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

I am not too wrong in the analysis because it is.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

We are doing it.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. Well, how long it takes and that, these are very encouraging trends in terms of power generation equipment, even in a sector where the sugar is not alone doing that well.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Okay. Sir, from FY 2019, you will start seeing order for B-heavy processes or when you are seeing orders for B-heavy , sir?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Might be even the current year. FY 2019 maybe order. I don't know.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Okay.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Certainly, I know that I can't say now because we haven't had our earnings call on Triveni Engineering as yet. Perhaps you can hear answers from there.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Sure, sir. Now we have established our second plant also, and we will continue to see good cash flows. Sir, any plans of diversification further, sir, in the concentric circles?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah, good question. We have no big diversification or anything in this current year that we're looking at. We are certainly looking at new product lines. We have plenty of capacity for new product lines. Our R&D efforts with this are we are actually spending monies on that. We have the space in terms of our. The results of the year can absorb higher R&D expenses because they have the return coming in the year ahead. Secondly, we have both the capacity in terms of the plant and equipment and space for further expansion. The second thing that we are doing, we are going even further down the line, a small little CapEx, in terms of testing equipment, where because this will supplement our R&D. You probably are going to have the first testing lab or the second one, B-heavy may have it, in Asia.

This will allow us to really start simulating State-of-the-art technologies which we are developing. We are benchmarking now higher and higher on an international plane. There's nothing that is in the FY 2019 year that we are contemplating.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Okay, sir. Sir, on exports piece, which are the geographies we are seeing good traction, sir? Are they on developed market or on the developing market side, sir?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Well, the developed market has been better than last year. We expect that it can still improve, but it has definitely been better than last year.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Sentiments are much better also.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

We've got orders also in Q1 better than what we had last year. Again, there are the sectors that I said, Waste-to-energy and Biomass and limited process cogen. These will continue. Secondly, we are seeing some traction in Southeast Asia better than last year. LATAM has not picked up as the way we thought it would, and some parts in our refurbishment business and others in the Middle East and Africa are doing well.

Kirthi Jain
Analyst, Sundaram Mutual Fund

Sure, sir. Thanks, sir. These were my questions.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Chirag Muchhala from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Yes, sir, just one follow-up. Sir, is there any ForEx gain in this particular quarter?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

ForEx gain?

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. We follow hedge accounting.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Right, sir.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

All variations on account of MTMs are put into hedging reserves, which are then adjusted against the revenue at an appropriate time when the turbine is dispatched.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Now it doesn't flow through the P&L unlike earlier process of.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. I mean, it flows through OCI, other comprehensive income.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay. Sir, that figure is negative actually in this quarter of negative INR 2 crores despite rupee depreciation.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Absolutely. The rupee depreciation is negative, it keeps on happening like this. Finally, it gets adjusted in the revenue.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay.

Nikhil Sawhney
Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

You get the hedge rate.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Yeah. It's not a loss, but under the accounting standards, we have to provide for it.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Right, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

This is happening even though we haven't delivered the turbine.

Chirag Muchhala
Analyst, Nirmal Bang

Okay, sir. Thank you, sir.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sagar Parekh from Deep Finance. Please go ahead.

Sagar Parekh
Analyst, Deep Finance

Yeah. Good evening. Thanks for taking my question.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you.

Sagar Parekh
Analyst, Deep Finance

Just one question on the domestic market. Have you lost market share in this quarter? Because it is about 140% increase in terms of market size, and we have grown order inflow by 43%. Is it loss in market share or is it loss in pricing?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. We have actually gained market share.

Sagar Parekh
Analyst, Deep Finance

This 43% rise in order inflow does not match with 140% increase in market size, right?

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

No. See, the market that we estimated.

Speaker 14

The market in INR has increased.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

In domestic market.

Speaker 14

Yeah.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

I think you are right. We looked at the orders. Maybe the market figures of last year were not entirely 140 or 150. We have traction on all orders, so we know exactly what we lost and what we won. In that, we know that our share has actually gone up. It is around 60%-65% figure.

Sagar Parekh
Analyst, Deep Finance

Okay, sure. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this seems to be the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Dhruv Sawhney
Chairman and Managing Director, Triveni Turbine

Thank you very much. Thank you for very active questions. I'd like to just summarize our position by saying that we view the balance part of FY 2019 very positively. We have a very good order book, best that we've had. The mix is good in terms of international and domestic and after-sales and product. Our strategy of diversifying our geographical presence internationally with the help of our export offices is working. The domestic market is picking up, and the increased domestic market will bring about an increase in margins as well.

Our research and development efforts in the past, which have brought new models out, have been well-received in the market, and so have given us opportunities of catering to the sectors which are growing, such as Waste-to-energy and Biomass, and internally in the cogen and in the ethanol sectors domestically, plus what is available in metals and cement. We expect a better Q2 and good H1 results, and ending the year with a positive increase in both top line and bottom line. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Triveni Turbine, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may disconnect your lines now.