Q4 17/18

May 23, 2018

Quarterly report

Ladies and gentlemen, Good day, and welcome to the Travany Turbine Limited Q4 and SRAED Learning Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to mister Risha Bhar of Sierra India. Thank you, and over to you, mister Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in the Q4 and FY18 earnings call for Travini Turbine Limited. You have with us today on the call, Mr. Bruce Soni, chairman, and Managing Director. Mr. Nikhil Soni, vice chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Alan Mote, Executive Director, along with other members of the senior management team. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussion may be forward looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which has been emailed to you earlier. Would also like to emphasize that while this call is open to all MIDs, it may not be broadcasted or reproduced in any form or manner. We will start this call with opening remarks from the management following which we will have an interactive question and answer session. I now invite Mr. Drew Soni, to share some perspective with you with regard to the operations and outlook for the business. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Richard. Good morning, everybody, to the q 4 earnings call. I'm happy to be able to report to you that we've had a record, performance, the highest ever quarterly turnover, It's 33% over q4fy17, and the bad growth of 33% to 300 and 54,000,000. How many? I consolidated key highlights. I have a net income of 7,500,000,000 and a balance of 960,000,000. But crucially, we've had a record annual order intake. There's been a 17% growth in order intake over FY17. And more importantly, the export to order growth has grown by 40%. Now one of the points that is strong for the future is the strong outstanding order book, which stands at 7.1 1,000,000,000 on the 1st April, a year on year growth of 12%. The turnover growth in Q4 allowed us to achieve The same turnover as last year, even though we had a slow start in the first few quarters, and you're unaware during my previous handling calls. During the period under review, the domestic sales were significantly higher. Than, they were in the previous year. And export sales were down. This is the cause of the opening order book. In FY18, which had a different percentage of export sales to what it is now for the future FY19. And this impacted margins quite substantially. In the aftermarket, in the services segment, we are proceeding well. The second effect on our performance for the year was on other income. We had a 21 crore decline because of a change in the accounting policy. Through adopting in theirs under which we had to recognize all MPM gains in FY17. While normally, This is gonna be spread over to the current year FY18. The difference you'll see in the co can be consolidated and standardized results has 1 significant factor. We have been setting up our offices, which is entailed substantial legal compliance, accounting expenses, and which have all been booked in the current year. There We we have now, we'll have a much lower base of expenses in the export market in FY19. So this impact has also affected the profitability of the subsidiaries that you will have noticed when you look through the results. But we this has done well in terms of our establishing our footprint, interplay with customers, and more importantly, using each center for a larger geographical spread. So, decisions to where we went have been borne out by the increase in inquiries that we are getting in the international front. On the domestic inquiry, generation fund, it's increased by about 7% over the past year. And then from a a large segment, cement steel paper, you're seeing activity in the steel and cement sector. In in in general. In the international market, we are fortunate that the renewable ITP states, is is quite buoyant. Just as you know, the the the space and in solar and wind days. So it's this space, and it has contributed a majority of our inquiries and export order bookings. This will continue in FY 'nineteen and for many years to come. Sugar Corporation is also a continued part of the process. And our key geographies are, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe. Minat and parts of Africa. The export trend, the growth in exports is continuing in in the Q1 of the current year. And, up to date, we are quite well placed for all the bookings for the Q1 year. So similarly, our our dependence and our concentration on services has been borne out. Especially in the export field. And we expect this to also contribute, to, a margins and to our efforts in FY19. With the mix in order booking, and it increased, to 51% in FY19, and it was 42% in FY17. This is This 9% difference is what you've seen, has been a major cause of our market. The domestic market flavor for the future, we are not expecting great growth, but we are expecting some growth, because we are having a better state of inquiries, 7 to 10% higher inquiries. In various sectors for generations, and ways to energy. I'd like to drill on our research and development. This has been a major concentration again for the past year, and it's been borne out by the number of new models being introduced chasing to the new market. Are we are able to now cater to a wide range of efficiency and and cost effective models in geographies, which we hadn't settled before. We're also able to penetrate new sectors. We are much stronger than the waste to energy sector. Having now put certain projects into commissioning. This sector is growing globally, less in India, but Globally, including Southeast Asia and the developed countries such as Europe and the UK. We have a number of, associations with, research institutes in India and with institutes globally. And this is giving us a further sell it to our R and D efforts, but our expenditures on R and D are continuing, and we are putting in new facilities in the current year, just for this purpose. Both our r and d facilities today are benchmark globally, and we feel that we're in second to nudge in in terms of our our manpower and facilities. The new generation portfolio, which is a company for the next 2, 3 years, we have a new generation coming up, in the in the next years as well. I think the outlook for the company is very strong. 1, with the opening order book. And 2, with the requirements, which is leading us to expecting and increased order booking in FY 'nineteen. And then in and with the same pace of export order booking to domestic order booking as we achieved in FY18. The focus on geographies is showing positive results. And our inquiry generation is supporting this, these efforts. We are having a lot of order bookings coming from Southeast Asia. And, from Eastern Europe, something that was a new geography, which I just mentioned. I'd just like to also comment on a few items which you may have noticed. One is on our receivables. A few orders were postponed. And even we had the letters of credit, And these, orders have been recovered. The payments have come in the month of April and, beginning of May about 90. Frozen, which has already been received. So this is temporary, hiccups, which happen, depending on when the financial year closes. And this is something that we're not forecasting for the future. Our inventory, has gone up by 35 fraud. And here, I'd like to mention that a major order, which, was being executed by, by deeds of any limited. For Africa. Once, rollover, we expect it to go in the next few months And this is affected, not just be done over and, in in in Tereini, this has affected the results of GEDRAVINI as well. We are a little disappointed in the order booking performance of, the UTL. And we are having a renewed dialogue as to how we should accelerate this. Even though we know that the market is very tough, And as you all know, when you're reading the power markets of our, our, other people in the industry, they've also had there is, there are big problems. But we feel that with these renewed, sales efforts, which shall be successful in getting things not required. This is still very strong. Which is is delaying all of the versions and that is something we're concentrating on with targeted specific areas and targeted sectors. We had a a a provisioning of an order, which was executed by Gee Terevaney, and, we follow an extremely conservative norm. So we are provisioning it, and we expect to see benefits of the insurance to come in future quarters. In the current year. I would like to just, end my, short introduction by saying that Q4 has really shown us that what we were expecting in the various quarters has come through in terms of turnover and in terms of increased order booking from the export market. So we're well established in terms of our presence overseas and in an order opening order book. So I think we see FY19 having a a better results than FY 'eighteen in all terms, starting with the first quarter. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with a question answer session. Participants are requested to use answered while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from SparkLab. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for calling. Good morning, sir. Yeah. Sir, just wanted to know how large is sugar at part of our overall, sugar over the past couple of years have been good, but, prices have been on the decline. So will it have an impact in terms of inflows over the next few couple of year next year or so? And, also, your views on I think crude oil prices, how would it like you to impact the fortunes of yours and the blowing flows from Middle East, etcetera, if you could explain these to me today? Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. Please stay on the line for management. Please stay connected. Please do not disconnect your lines as we have the management reconnected as a conference. Thank you Thank you for patiently holding the line. We have the management reconnected to the conference. Over to you, sir, we have, Mister Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital online. Can you please go ahead with your question? You're back. Sorry. I really want to cut off. Can you just start again, please? Sure, sir. So, basically, I just wanted to know on, what pro proportion of your oral order book is sugar. You know, the fact that last couple of years, so sugar has the entire industry has been doing well. So, you you would have seen good order. So but prices have been on the decline both domestically and globally. Yeah. So actually, you know, it's about 20, 25%. But, you know, with the with sugar, with the sugar prices down, people are looking at cogeneration. For supplementing revenues. So in fact, it's a reverse thing happening. Our inquiries are not bad. Because with the excess sugar that came crushed, there's much more availability of sugar So the the the potential is is large because the pricing they get, otherwise, is not that great. And Internationally, also, sugar code generation is is very much a part of sugar complexes. So this is in line with the what I started off by saying about the a renewable sector and the biomass sector. It's quite good, and we expect the same percentages to continue. Okay. We don't see any, decline or something out of solvency. We can No. No. Not in the inquiries and not in the bookings. 4 points already. And, with the oil prices going up, so, what would be the hold the demand shape up from Middle East and other oil. Yeah. Good question. Good question. You know, we had this one order which we got in the middle east of API 6.2 order from from, from Kuwait and with Shell, And this is the highest, technical, performance is way beyond the normal API specs Now this is going to be delivered in the Q1 number. Part of the part of the inventories going up was because of this order. This is a very big breakthrough for us. We are now, our offices have moved, very substantially in getting ourselves registered with, a lot of companies such as Sabik and other than Saudi and and So, I haven't put this in, in our plan because we are at the stage of getting qualified. And then we get the inquiries. But we are extremely competitive, and now we have a track record. So in the next few years, I see this as a has a very good potential high margin visit. But it'll be really helpful if you could 25, sir, say, in terms of say crores or megawatt, how I can't do that. And and and, you know, we to move. But I can but but I'd say that we are we are we are we are we are we are particularly on 2 markets, the Middle East and Malaysia. And Indonesia, but starting with Malaysia. Okay. Okay. And, sir, in terms of our, in a beach expansion in a sale. So basically, over the past 2 years, we had been seeding a more number of offices, a more number of employees, we have recruited, etcetera. Is this have you done with it? Is this like a refund? Or I mean, where I'm what I'm trying to understand is have the cost been incurred and, we'll we won't be seeing further cost increase and, we'll start seeing revenues flowing in, or is it like we'll spend some more time Good point. Good point. And, we've had some very detailed reviews, post our you are closing. 1, we have, we are having no further additions. In fact, we I think some expenses, administration and others, you know, when you set things up, for the first time, you got a lot of first time costs and legal and, office and administration and travel and all that. So we've got a very strict budget. We expect, expenses or overseas offices to actually go down this year a little bit. So we are not seeing, we we we are we are not budgeting for anything, increase. So that's but we are we are in our right levels if it's not available. Got it. So the that will translate into say, lower increase in employee cost and other related costs. Correct. Correct. Correct. Absolutely. Got it, sir. And in terms of, GEDL, just wanted to know what is our current or And, so, like, this year, we had, like, if I 18, we had executed close to 95 crores. So what will, will there be an execution a flattish, will there be a decline change? And Sure. We Yeah. Okay. And, my last question is, so there are couple of large steel projects which are coming up. So would we see orders from the domestic side for GEDL and the 30 to 100? My order. We can say orders. We'll let possibly come in. Thanks. Oh, yeah. The first question is that I ordered booking. I ordered an end up 154 a 1654, in DHL. So we we don't we do expect a better performance certainly a better performance in FY 'nineteen for a GEDL, in in, in our way, certainly, with the orders on hand with our execution, And, we don't expect delays on lifting, which happened in, in FY18 through 4. That's point 1. In the steel sector, there are some inquiries in the mining sector also. And, just simply we will be pushing hard in our, 3200 Megawatt 30.1 to 100 Megawatt range. We're also looking now fairly aggressively, as I said, Internationally in these lines, So we're we're trying to have a renewed sale effort in GETL. So to meet with the our expectations and your expectations there. The the one other point I'd like to make is that I'm I'm talking about GTS that with the, oil price going up you know, combined cycle, projects are much more valuable with the gas pricing and things, you know. So we, with our, with this being part of the GEaster Mine packages. That's another good potential for the for the future for the ATMs pretty soon. Okay. So we can expect more orders like the Argentina one which we have on the line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've got the new one here in Durham and then yeah. But these domestic orders, do you is them closing the fear itself or something? That's a $1,000,000 question. So we don't we don't actually bank on that. I only have it. See, we we have this commit in a budget fee. So right now, I'm not sure that, How are we going to see? Well, for more than steel, you know, we have a lot of inquiries on the metal space also, which is, the broader and steel. And so you will see some activity in the broader metals steel space. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Tashika Kingka from your device. Please go ahead. Hello? Hello? Yeah. Hi there. Good morning. This is. Sir, congratulations for Bucera numbers. I've got a couple of questions. So first one on, you know, P, Kavini JPL. So it's been, like, 3rd consecutive quarter for the losses, and you did explain, you know, you had made some provision and all. But, sir, I just wanted to understand if you can give some color as to, like, you know, why, there is, like, no order booking. Is it on account of higher competition or, you know, some issues on the acceptance side? Well, maybe let's see. There there is not a question on the exception side. It's more a question of orders taking long to rectify. And, we, we, we, we are accelerating move into different sectors, new sectors. So we're we're pushing that and to to couple with the fact that we are generally in the non, renewable space. All of that means so to be converted. And you you'll notice that in your, sector and power sector generally. So I don't think that the, the that's really going to happen again into in FY, 19. Now the movement of the oil price will also help generally combine side much more than it has in the past. You've seen the larger combined cycle companies globally and their results in what what they have happened in Q1 for the calendar year. I feel that the moment of, command cycle and the movement of we're also really addressing our sales channels. We've been more aggressive on our sales. For the future. And we think that that we need to now, we are at the stage where we can more aggressively go and penetrate new markets. They're of that majority stage in the JV. Okay. Okay. So what what are the premium Actually, you made a JTL this year? It was on a contract. Uh-uh. And you know, that's something that, commercially, is, happens in large cap capri goods companies. But we are following this very collaborative policy that we'll we'll we'll look for the, the return from the from the insurance later. Sir, can we quantify that closure? This is you know, we wanna keep it with the Okay. No no issues. No issues. So secondly, if you actually look on the domestic uh-uh, you know, CapEx. So I think the CPP market is staying at around 70 megawatt or much lesser than that. It it came down by about 2% which are in our calculation over previous. I'm sorry to say about saying that. Yeah. But the inquiry book is up by about 10% here. You know, that's where the market is. Okay. So what is this amount, you know, when can convert in megawatts. How much is this? Somewhere around 70 megawatts? Yeah. Not the inquiry book is, is It's about 1.75 gigawatts, for this is below 30 megawatts. And, the the the growth we're anticipating is about 10% in this current year of the domestic market from about 650 to about 7 27 30. Okay. Okay. So, thirdly, if you look at the aftermarket business, I think you know, our recent initiative, like, which we took almost 2 to an half years back of penetrating into the sports market that is, you know, going well. They are not almost around 40%. So you see this increase in further, the exports mix in the aftermarket business? Yes. We do. It's slower than we expected. It's, it's slower than we expected. But we have another we we have a lot of new initiatives that we started, you know, We've, developed packages of services, including remote monitoring, and, AMCs overseas I'm talking about. It's a club and, interpretation offerings, but they take time to to actually get this ready of services ready. Then because these are different types of services to what customers want in India. And, so we do see it increasing. Yeah. And now that our offices are stabilized, you know, that's also, what would have been disposed. All I could That's it from my side. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sadiq Jen from ASK Investment. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, gentlemen. So just to deliver it more on the opportunity in the domestic market. Let's talk about the inquiry book, which is up 10%, you know, 17 50 Megawatt. But what was awarded, in your estimate in FY18 and, how much up or down that was compared to 517? 6648 megawatts was awarded, which is a decline of 2% over FY 17. This is below 30 megawatt. And this includes, ITP, process codes, and everything that would fall in. It it includes everything about which are power driven market. And can you give a sense as to this is, like, cyclical and where it is right now in the cycle? What was it? Let's say 3, 5 years back and what is the peak of this market and what is the trough of this? You know? The peak of the market was about 1800 megawatts and about 11 at 11:12. This is not cyclical. It is not expected to go up to 1500 again, pretty soon because there's been structural changes, but you will have a substantial increase, in, once the, rate of growth, as you see, It's picked up from, the hiccups of the, last year. You know, GST and other things that have been digested. So people are now, coming out of the, phase of, non investment. So we we we we look to a a very good good increase in FY Twenty starting with their financials. Oh, we see our our customers more, they're they're more they're more keen to engage on discussions on the inquiries that is the positive trend. So if I think at 6:48, would be the truck for if I said it was lesser than that? I mean, probably probably the bottom. Yeah. And what is the threat to this particular space from micro grids based on solar energy in future. Can you see the point is that, a majority of our customers are you said, in the CPP market, the buyer's team is part of the process. Now either they produce waste heat, which is a form of steam bid for us, Now if if they require steam as part of the process, right, for the alternative, you know, this most cost effective method for them to, deliver power to them for themselves. Thank you. I understand. Any case is that it's separate. You know, there's a that is a renewable, just like solar. So that space as well. It's in this in this space of renewable as long as the feedstock is available, it always makes sense for you to set up this plant. There's enough funding behind it. There's enough capital that the returns exist. And even if the if the payments are delayed, that is a risk that is shared with all renewables. It's not distinct only to, municipal, solid waste, or, or, basically, you know, you we are fortunate that we are in four, five sectors. Which, are not subject to this competition. 1 is, the waste your energy. The second is a co generation, which is coming in, from both biomass, convincing, and also combined cycle, which is looking at the gas and oil prices and, we're completely separate to, and lastly, process industries. So our sectors are fairly solid on just in India. The same model is there, circling in all the developing nations who are very largest in where there's a lot of growth. And in certain sectors, there's a develop station, which is based to energy and bio management renewable side, renewable side. So out of the 650 megawatt, how much would be, you know, coal based captive, a power roughly. Right. Maybe about 15% PR. Yeah. Maybe. Max. And what was our market share? What it what it has been like? In this case. Retaining our our, electronic market share. And what are the rough realizations that we have in products? I think that's a, you know, that's a that's a different question. We can, it's we won't be able to answer that very accurately, unfortunately. And one last question is, how big is the market in India about 30 megawatts up to 100 megawatts? Well, last year, it was a small, actually. That's part of the reason that, our growth was low. There were only, like, 2, 3 orders that were actually placed. So, of which we had we had 1. And so, like, you could say we had a 1 third market, sir. But I I the the market, in India, is, you know, we haven't started moving to larger projects of its 2 energy or in biomass like it, Internationally. And also combined cycle markets in India are not following the same trend. You know, gas is still not even though we we don't have the same availability as many other countries have. And and so our markets are a little in the 30 to 100 megawatts space. So that's why our push internationally is is is much more, and that's where our comparative advantages are. Can you quantify what got awarded in this space, sir, in a fair eighteen? This 2 I know. I don't think that is our role here, actually. Thanks. Okay, sure. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ricky Chang from Sundarametra Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes, ma'am. Hello? I'm gonna try and get you the performance. My first question is, are you regard to, say, the school availability, there's a shortage in the market. So does it having any impact on our, say, auto close? I don't know, other inquiries? No. The oral, you know, we are not, there are not so many core based, inquiries in our pipeline. That will get delayed. And then so this is not a trend, really, that's, existing, power plants and for the very large ones. You know, when I give you an example, even if if a if a unit is using coal for their production and is unsure of it. The cost of him importing the coal for his capital requirement would easily still meet 2.3 rupee cost of production that he may want. So it's not, the the price of coal is would not return to setting it up setting up the the Capital Partners because this is not no one's using coal at this size to to actually export to grid. So it's not grid competitive right there. Okay. So still there's a liability. So, sir, in such a case of power assisted scenario, like, we are having, like, a surprise, do you expect that, the the demands of captive portal improved, sir? Yes. And what? Other than Ginkgen. Other than Ginkgen. Alright. So actually, the demand for he's getting now for decentralized power. He is is the the justice decentralized power rather than relying on the So anyone who has anything to do with steam, of course, they must have their own captive power. But the liability of smaller plants with the the high efficiencies that we are able to offer in our products. Give a good ROI to people to be self sufficient in power rather than relying on that. Also, industry has a disproportionate, front of the, of the subsidies and electricity market. And so people do look at that. Hello? Yes, sir. That's it. That's right, sir. So, on GST Energy, domestic market, any action, please, sir? Small. Small, but, I think, we can ask our parents in sales too. So in domestic market, Western Energy, there's no much traction. Do the inquiry based is there for a few orders getting finalized, but No. Probably if you have high 19, maybe a year where we can see some traction on that. Correct? Mhmm. Okay, sir. Sir, on international front, any, large traction coming in front, actually, any large growth you are seeing for? For next year? Yes. As I said, we we we, you know, the growth that we've had in export, in the current year, We are, foreseeing a similar situation next year. So growth in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe in the sector that we talked about, we expect to continue in FY 'nineteen. Okay. And, yeah, the first quarter is is is promising. First quarter is already showing good traction. Okay, sir. Sir, in terms of new office, if that's already planning some more new offices or, we will consolidate and we will optimize our, available officers and, reach what will they do, sir? Yeah. We are consolidating now, and I answered before, We have gone through all our, startup expenses. So we expect no further expenses to be incurred, but first thing when I'm setting up a new offices in the immediately, till we start using these offices for larger geographical spreads, And, they're all stabilized. The expenses are, are going to be comparable with last year's stock lower. Okay, sir. Thank you, sir. That's it for me. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Pavan Makhlani from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Good morning, gentlemen. And, congratulations, the way you have been able to mold your business and exports in the market and whether the downturn. My question is, we've seen large orders booking by ThermoX especially in the fertilizer sector. And, L and T yesterday announced 2 large fertilizer or some 4000 crores, And most of these are speaking about, capital power plants, gas based. So would there be the beneficiary of this trend that we are seeing. You see, a lot of the plans are coming up unless it becomes combined cycle. These plants may have an open cycle, which means yes. So unless it becomes combined cycle where the steam comes in, is not there. Now the extra cost eventually, one of the big markets for us globally is for people to go from, open cycle to combined cycle. It's happening internationally, Qatar that is happening in India. Because, they, you know, they haven't got to that as yet. So here, we have not seen too much traction on the steam part. From this fertilizer from the fertilizer. Understood. Abid, second question is you spoke about, wasted which, we believe cement is another sector. How large is that market? And, how do you see this market shaping your country? If possible, what percentage of the cement plans would have wasted it and how do you see that as an opportunity for you over the next 3, 4 years? That's a good point. Good point. I think, I lost my impression. I think it's a good market. The waste heat market for cement. Yep. So yeah. And then, basically, the company is one of the biggest opportunities what, now we can encounter FY 2019 and FY 2020. Today, install the supplement plan, only around 7 to 8% of the plan having this basic recovery. That's the team based with all plans. So we the inquiry base is increasing as these plans, whatever running plans are more a school and started giving good results to the, investment. VPC did one of the big opportunities for the years to come. How large could this any rule of thumb, like, is it like a 5, 6 megawatt per 1,000,000 ton and how large that opportunity could be for your company? I think it is something like around, at the best in terms of the technology available today, which is like a 1,000,000 ton plan to close it to around 6 even megawatt capacity generation. Okay. Yeah. That that's that's very helpful. So, basically, we we I'm so sorry to interrupt, but questions. Please join the question survey follow-up as we have weekly meeting in the tour. Okay. Fine. Thank you. Before we take the next question, I would like to remind all the participants Please limit your question to 2 per participant. You may come back in the question queue if you have a follow-up. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Pavan Kumar from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. The 90 growth have already been, received from the receivable parts. Yeah. Absolutely. And the inventory of, the shipment would happen in this quarter, or, how are we seeing that? Yeah. We're seeing it. Actually, it is, going to Africa. And, as part of a detail, it's, they're pushing very hard with them and they're pushing hard. It'll be I can't see for certain, but definitely, June, July, you know, q 1, 22. Okay. And lastly, on the number. We're gonna get some some storage charges. Okay. On the JPS side, you mentioned that the order book was 154 crores. If my tablet is right, last third quarter, it was around 130 crores. So have you been working with new order in this particular quarter? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. National. Yeah. No. I'm sugar. It's National. International. Oh, we have a brand new order of, in the international market. Is it okay? Okay. Yes. There was a a a a sugar order in Bangladesh. Okay. So, currently, the receivable portion will be non normalized at around 150 crores or 130.40 crores, sir? Yes. Is quarterly, it comes lower because Q4 is always the highest batch month. So so what you see, but, it will through the course of the other quarter, this will normalize to a lower level. Okay. And do the 3 types of sectors, the commodity files which have been going on. So would you would it have any kind of margin impact on us? Yes. Yes. To some extent, we have a cost increase, but that is being compensated by higher realization of prices from the market. Overall margins are not much affected. Right. So on on the realization, while you mentioned that, you know, it's difficult to give a realization number, but just wanted to know the trends in the realization how that has been in the past, say, 18 months? Fairly stable. In spite of the commodity price is going up. Yeah. I've already priced it to the extent that they end up impacting you is only 2, 3%. That's absolved by the price. So that primarily is not much. And then how much data and then all that, the commodity, since it's it's not a big mover. The raw material as a percentage of sales for us is somewhere above 50% and after the raw commodity prices is very little. And so the movement of those prices is not all that outdated. And do you have any questions, Mister Kumar? I'm sorry to interrupt. Requesting you to please join the queue for your follow-up as we have Please hope you take the next question. Next question is from the line of Manish Goyal from Enan Holdings. Please go ahead. Hello? Yeah. Very good afternoon, sir. Couple of questions are one continuing on the waste heat recovery. So, it was mentioned that 1,000,000 cement plant requires to 7 Megawatt of waste heat recovery. So what would be the overall project cost and what would be our addressable market in in waste heat recovery, sir? And now now you're asking, some semitic and Teleflex question. The You see, it depends on every single case, but you know the cement production, you know, how many, what is the cement capacity today I think if you look at that and see the fact that there are only about 10 or 15% of them that have it, less than 10%. So you have 90% of the cement production, right, on that has this potential. Now that we are seeing the cement prices, the fairly good business deal for cement management? No, sir. When I was coming from is, what would be, say, the project cost from 1 megawatt and out of that, if it is set 8 to 10 crores. What would be our share in the project cost will be somewhere around 5 to 5 and a half crores per megawatt. And so the 1,000,000 tons cement price at the Akil has a potential to generate 6, for 6 to 7. Yeah. Yeah. And the entire market is open to because it is artitology is applicable to the entire market. Okay. So we can get the entire project, order. So, basically, that is what I'm where I'm coming from. Right. Yeah. And second question on the Agree waste, basically, we were looking at potential market because, like, typically in Delhi surrounding areas, we see a lot of pollution due to a burning of agri waste. Now, what we also see on other side is a strong government push for 2 g biofuel, from such aggreased. So do you do you anticipate that the market opportunity could be lost for us? No. It's gonna take up some quite a long time. Right. And, the technology still have to be displayed for everything. Go ahead and space for the both both both models and fact is that agri waste is primarily doubles, as opposed to, the the the stock itself. You know, so there are different models that both will apply. Both will work. I think on scale, incineration will will win out as a technology of, over, the the private market. Okay. Okay. And last question, aftermarket blue aftermarket segment, how do you see the growth going forward? When we see the aftermarket results, in the export field for both funds, we see we see both institute growth in the aftermarket as well as the percentage of sales. This is something that's consistent with our rising order book. So you see the order book I I would say installed base. As installed base grows, over the period of time, we get more orders and and how can and that's coupled with the fact that our offerings also in the servicing market is increasing. We see that there will be continued growth on this front, but we believe that our focus on actually making sure that we get more, orders and therefore, a larger installed base will continue to then, uh-uh, allow us to grow the aftermarket. Okay. You know, I have basically, we were looking at refurbishment opportunities even from 3rd party, products where we have been supplying our banks, which we haven't supplied are we getting any, breakthroughs in such opportunity? Yeah. We we we got some in FY18. Sure. So it's not the the the that market is a slow market international. It's lumpy because you have to get somebody else's the machine and have it diverted to India and repair and then send back again. So many people don't want to take that time and, dislocation. So we, we are offering, very good offerings It's it's definitely a good market. It's, it needs more effort, but there's a good market. Fine, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Suji Chen from ASK Invest. Please go ahead. Sir, the refurbishment market for us, what is the general average size, that we cater to? I'm sorry. It's not depends on type of work. You see, the work that we offer is is through the value chain. We could do anything as simple as overhauling to actually reengineering also. So it depends. It's the the bigger thing is what is the value of the contract to us so that it attracts us. And of course, that has to be sufficient enough for our bed and our our our capacity. So that doesn't make sense, but we've gone all the way up to, doing 250 to 300 megawatts, turbines as well in terms of work. And would the margins be very high in this segment, like, 25%, 39%. There are normal servicing margins. So We have them in, in, it's it's sporadic. It depends on where, where it comes from. But we have good margins including, the cost of transport and, you know, bringing it to air and back again. So both the customer and we get a good Good return. Sure. Thanks. Our competition is very fairly limited in the refurbishment. It's mainly from local people where they they try to convince them not to send it and not to do such a big job. So the but many people do want to have this efficiency and and power improvement, which is what we offer. So we offer a completely different value proposition, and more and more people are coming to that, and willing to, sacrifice the extra time that it takes to send it, and I have it done by us. Thank you. Question from the line of Vijay Singh from First Global. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello. Hi, sir. Congratulations on a good set of number. So my question is, just wanted to get a clarity on EBITDA margins. If you can give us, you know, segment wise EBITDA margins like it sport, domestic, and, they refer it to me. We we we don't share that. Okay. Okay. No problem. No problem. My second my second question is, could you give us some, you know, just guide us, could you give us some view on export market? Oh, it is how we are looking for next 2 years or 3 years. Like, a simple worldview. Alright. We are seeing a growth, firstly, there's growth in the export market. And we are seeing growth, giving you the sectors where we feel, will sustain in the medium term. They're not subject to, going up and down because we are looking at sectors such as waste to energy, process for generation, renewable. So these are sectors which are in the plans of countries for the future, and some countries have incentive, some have, lesser incentives. But they give the potential for that. So we don't find the competition from what large power coal based power plants have. Secondly, more and more countries are coming into the space in the developing world, in in down the waste to energy. So and, all the all the sectors, So we are seeing growth. Okay. I think it's a short term from Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, but, also from, LatAm, and Africa. Okay. I'm final question. Any view on our order book, sir, for next 2 years, excluding VAT, any view for the next 2 years? Yeah. We are up. We we expect an increased order book in FY, 19 to what we achieved already. So we certainly don't, we we we're we're looking at increasing our books year on year, and the first quarter is a good start. Okay, sir. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Thank you. We read the next question from the line of Tavan Pari from Renaissance Investment. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. I I have only one question. So the regional service center that we've set up, any revenues that we've booked in the current quarter or current year from these service centers, which otherwise in the absence of the service centers, we would not be able to book so far. Well, I mean, from an accounting perspective, the fact is that, they have any significant revenue to these the cost are largely embedded up. And as they build up their own inquiry book and forms what they're able to execute The first factor, the reason that we set them up was to create availability. And so to answer your question, we believe that the performance is what will come in going forward from here. And, so we are optimistic that visibility that we would not have seen earlier, we would get. Also, the confidence that the customers would get would be more. Okay. So, sir, I mean, as of now, only courses in the P and L, no meaningful revenue and going ahead that that that those avenues should also start accruing. No. No. I think when you sit past it, you see these are startup costs. It's it's it's, you know, when you're starting, offices, you have legal and and commercial and other costs. So that when you're looking at the cost base, I mean, on the subsidiary results, you've got to take that, that, that is a bit one time. Certainly, our revenue stream from these subsidiaries is going to show a good increase in FY19 versus FY18. Okay, sir. Great. And all the best. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Kamlish Kotak from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good afternoon, sir. Hello. Good afternoon, sir. So I just wanted to understand how many turbines we would have under the order book and the GTL? We've given you the the value of the order book? Yeah. Order book you have given, how many turbines would be to be executed this year in GTN, and how many we would have executed last year? I we have 5 under the auto book. Right? So we have we didn't execute. We have 5, but that's less and and it's okay. How many, sir? 33. But, you know, when you take numbers, it doesn't mean the same because they're different live it. Sure. Sure. This is not a product, I think, on, on on value for the buy. And it can be very distorting to to look at it. But we have more, orders, than we executed last year on hand. Sure. Secondly, sir, given that whatever other book we have or what kind of visibility and what kind of growth you are looking at the current year in terms of the revenue? As I said, we expect, I was not happy with the, be having an increased sales push in, DTL, both regionally and, segment wise. So I expect better results. Mhmm. And, Can we assume that with the high proportion of export markets orders, the margin also could improve compared to what it was last year? Yes. Okay. And lastly, sir, how much investment we need to make in the new facility? Any CapEx that we plan this year? Okay. So we have, commissioned, just normal maintenance. There's no cap, actually. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Vicky Jain from Sundar Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Sir, Siemens had recently announced that in the European region some of the regions. They are closing their, turbine division. So any slower or any benefits you are seeing, sir? I think it validates the value of the chain that we actually operate in. If they move it to India, it means that there's a this is where the competitiveness lies. So validate our model, in fact, Actually, that is what that it is happening. You know, we are in a space, where engineer to order property roads is globally being competitive in the Indian space with, a model of global Salesforce, with offices to provide, service. So we are getting to the same platform and what the, people had overseas. And in fact, what would they be out of the way? And in fact, I see one of the biggest issues that we may face in support is the acceptance of the customer for from a make in India perspective. And so if there's if if that is becoming a more, a standard in terms of production, that actually helps us in, in in in many, many ways. Like, we can let will there be chance of more market share gains, sir? Like, like, customer will have a Siemens reliability and, say, life cycle service issues. So customer will come to to anyone. Right, sir? Guarantee also. So I think the space for Indian, Indian orders globally is on the app. Okay. Okay. So finally, on this currently benefit, will we benefit, fully or will we pass through the market and gain market, sir, what is our report, sir? So so so typically, we run a hedge book, and so we take 2 gains. 1 is a forward, premium. And and there's some M to M on that. Given our heads are something now in the AI, in the IS, what we were not able to absorb at all in FY18. We'll now revert into FY19, other income. Hopefully, this will answer the question in previous in in subsequent, calls about where are there in Panganska? Sir, how much, sir, textbooks have you had for 3 months or 6 months, sir, or roughly? No. We had it, well, is there a It depends on our order cycle. So we had it according to that. Okay. Okay. Like, are we have a order book of 700 code. So will we be hedged for 700 code? So, we'll be hedged in our hedging policy. No. There's a there's a there's it's only on the export. It's 700 includes domestic as well. So Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry, sir. Correct. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We think the last question is from the line of Aruna Karwal from BOI X sanitary Fund. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. I'm sorry I missed the emission part. So my question is, on the international competition, in terms of competition, Europe, and other parts, how's competition doing? And has there been any consolidation in overall consolidating in the competition, competing businesses? No. Our competition is there. We don't have alumni competitors, in the team, turbine spaces and some other product lines. But competition is as much as, you would expect but the competitiveness and the value proposition being offered from India is being much more widely accepted. And we are able to now provide the customers with a good value proposition with a good return to to to the company. So now that is an invalid spread, So technologically of the the the what we are doing is concentrating on our R and D and our value engineering on our service so that we provide a world class solution to these customers and, in all the segments that are relevant. So I think we are matching now best in class, what is happening with the international competition. Okay, Alicia. Thanks, sir. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the floor over to the management for closing comments. Thank you very much for an interesting Q4 session. And thank you for your comments on our our results for the q 4. I'd like to just end by saying we with a good order book to start with with more exports, in the order book and flowing, right now in Q1 and, inquiry pipeline for FY19 and the feedback we have from our offices, we feel the, FY19 is going to be a better year. In in both terms. And we are looking forward to good growth. So with that, thank you very much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Travany Turbine Limited. This concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you.