Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the RHI Magnesita India Limited Conference Call Q1-FY 2026. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Before we get started, I would like to point out that some statements made or discussed on today's call may be forward-looking in nature and must be viewed in conjunction with risks and uncertainties that we face. The company does not undertake to update these forward-looking statements publicly. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Parmod Sagar, Chairman, Managing Director, and Chief Executive Officer from RHI Magnesita India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for RHI Magnesita India's Q1-FY 2026 Earnings Call. We have had a very good start to the year, reinforcing the robustness of our operating model even in the face of market commoditization and volatility. Our resilience in transforming into tangible gains reflected in increased market share and stronger financial performance. While the refractory market remains competitive, we are confident in our business fundamentals, positioning, and strategic levers to drive growth, improve productivity, and maintain safe operations across all sites. Today, I'm pleased to present our first quarter results and forward-looking, along with the dynamic industry landscape filled with opportunities. We operate at the heart of India's steel, cement, and various industrial sectors, which has continued to see robust growth supported by government infrastructure spending and a strong economy. The Union Budget raised the infrastructure outlay by INR 11.2 lakh crores.
This is a promising indicator for the steel and cement industry. The factories, the heat-resistant materials that we produce, are the unsung heroes, enabling this industrial growth. Around 65% of India's refractory demand comes from the steel sector, and together with cement, around 75% of refractory consumption. This underscores our critical role in India's industrial ambitions. The overall market environment remains challenging and highly commoditized. Global geopolitical uncertainties from supply chains have increased the refractory input cost, in particular raw material cost. This has intensified margin pressure across all industries. Despite these headwinds, RHI Magnesita's fundamentals have proved remarkably resilient. We continue to focus on customer satisfaction, product performance, leveraging our scale and innovation capability to stay ahead of the curve and meet the needs of the customer.
We have navigated these obstacles by focusing on our business fundamentals and strategic initiatives, which helped drive a 13% shipments and 9% year-on-year growth in our revenue for this quarter. Maintaining excellence amid a tough pricing environment speaks to our commitment to expand across diverse markets. On the operational front, several key initiatives progressed well in Q1. Number one is strategic projects in iron making. Our strategic investments in iron making, particularly for blast furnace and stock house, DRI, hot metal in this quarter, are progressing on schedule and are expected to position us for future growth in these areas. Number two is successfully regained market share almost across all segments, and finally, as communicated in last quarter, we had productive discussions with our customers and secured key price increases, and we are expecting to see these benefits in the coming quarter. The other is cost optimization.
We have launched a focus program across all our plants to focus on cost efficiency through recipe optimization, uses of circular economy, productivity, and energy cost efficiencies, and I'm happy to report that we are on track on execution of these programs. We are also working on automation and robotics in operations. We are making progress in the area of these initiatives, and with the introduction of the 4PRO business model, we have made steady progress in this area. Last year, we introduced our 4PRO model, which is a total solution to the customer and integrated solution approach, building products, process, performance, and digital solutions. This quarter, we have moved from planning to execution, and the early results are very encouraging. Our teams have achieved multiple operational milestones at customer sites, demonstrating how our solution improves their processes.
One particular highlight is the deployment of India's first complete robotic solution in a continuous casting plant, the first such installation in an Indian steel plant. By proving this capability in India, we have strengthened our reputation as the go-to partner for advanced refractory solutions. As a result, we expect to expand our market share through more 4PRO long-term contracts, where we manage the entire process flow for customers. Our commitment to innovation, be it through robotic, digital monitoring, or R&D in refractory formulations, is transforming how we and our customers operate. We also enhance our steel flow control capability through a small acquisition of customer technology via our subsidiary, Intermetal and Union, effective from 1st August 2025. In summary, RHI Magnesita India Limited has demonstrated that we can, and we will, continue to deliver in a tough environment by staying agile and sticking to our strategy.
We are building momentum quarter by quarter. Our role in India's industrial landscape is evolving, from simply a material supplier to a strategic solution partner for steel and cement producers, contributing to the nation's drive for manufacturing excellence. By enabling safer, more efficient steel and cement production, we are strengthening India's industrial backbone and supporting the 5 trillion economy vision with self-reliant supply chains. I'm confident that with the continued dedication of our team and the trust of our customers, we will convert the current challenges into opportunities for long-term growth. Thank you very much, and I will hand over to our CFO, Sir Azim Syed, to walk through the financial performance in detail. Yes, Azim.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you, Mr. Sagarji. I will now walk you through the financial performance of RHI Magnesita India for the quarter ended June 30, 2025, where we have delivered growth across key metrics while navigating market challenges. Let me begin with FY 2025 performance, which was marked by intensified competition in the refractory market and rising input costs, especially in raw materials. But first-quarter results of this year, marked by growth and stable profitability, reinforce the effectiveness of our business fundamentals in complex operating dynamics. I'm pleased to report that our revenue from operations for Q1 FY 2026 stood at INR 950 crores, which represents circa 5% sequential growth quarter- on- quarter and about 9% growth year-on-year. Shipment volume grew to 129 kilotons by 4% quarter- on- quarter and 13% year-on-year. This growth was primarily fueled by regained market share in almost all segments.
Production for Q1 FY 2026 stood at 85,000 tons, an increase of 11% quarter- on- quarter and 9% year-on-year. Capacity utilization improved to 66%, ensuring that additional market demand was met through planned inventory increases. Our operating EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 103 crores, a 10% increase over Q4 FY 2025, a sequential improvement in EBITDA margins to 10.8% from 10.2% last quarter, highlighting stronger operational performance and the initial gains from our pricing initiatives. Profit before tax for the quarter stood at INR 48 crores, reflecting a 27% increase over the previous quarter, supported by disciplined execution and tighter cost controls. While our profitability has increased, our margins year-on-year declined by 51%. This is primarily due to high input costs, particularly in raw materials.
The reason for this is due to the elevated high-cost alumina prices moving from our inventory to P&L, and this will taper down in the upcoming quarters as the alumina prices have fallen down. On the employee and other expenses, we are able to manage this well with productivity programs that we have implemented across our plant network, which has already started to yield results. We expect to keep the same momentum. Profit after tax for the quarter was INR 35 crores, reflecting a 3% decline compared to the previous quarter, as in the previous quarter, tax credit was recognized based on the ITR filed for FY 2024, pertaining to certain acquisition-related provisions. We also remained disciplined in our operation and working capital management. By optimizing receivable and payable days to their lowest level, we generated robust cash flow and further strengthened our financial position.
This reflects consistent improvement in our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio from 0.3x- 0.2x quarter- on- quarter. We generated INR 88 crores in operating cash flows in Q1, an increase of 36% quarter- on- quarter, and invested INR 28 crores in capital expenditure all funded through our balance sheet. Our balance sheet remained strong with low net debt and with adequate liquidity, positioning us to pursue growth opportunities and focus on our strategic initiatives. Looking ahead, we are optimistic for the growth and profitability for the upcoming quarters, driven by our robust order book pricing initiatives, input cost optimization through our productivity initiatives, and normalizing raw material costs, as mentioned by Parmod. We'll continue to optimize working capital and maintain financial discipline, a sharp focus on operational excellence, innovation, and differentiated offering, ensuring continued profitability.
As mentioned by Parmod, our business fundamentals remain strong, and we'll continue to focus on strategic initiatives aimed at long-term growth, that is, gain market share and strategic advancement in iron-making segments and targeted investment in 4PRO business model, further usage of secondary raw materials. In conclusion, our commitment to shareholders was that we will see an improved quarter-on-quarter result that will underpin our business fundamentals and our strategic initiatives. This is what we have demonstrated in this quarter. Our financial position remains stable, continues to strengthen, places in a strong position to capitalize on market tailwinds and progress of our internal transformation. We remain committed to delivering long-term value to our shareholders by focused execution. Thank you for all your continued trust and interest in RHI Magnesita India. We can now take questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Jai Chauhan from Trinetra Asset Managers. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Yes, you're audible.
Yes, sir. So my question was pertaining to management has highlighted the margin improvement expected from both secured price increase and lower input cost. Could you provide some color on the balance between these two drivers, specifically how much of the anticipated margin improvement in Q2 and Q3 will come from sustainable price hikes, and how has the competitive environment evolved to allow for these price increases now, as I remember management mentioning that it was challenging just a few months ago? This is my question, sir.
Yeah. So basically, the market is still very commoditized, and it is not easy to get price increases in a commoditized market. We have some 4PRO, as me and Azim are also talking about, this full solution business where we add value to the customer. In those areas, we are getting price increases where we are also adding value to the customer, and the business is not that much commoditized. Okay? So if you talk about Q2 and Q3, I will not be able to give you the number, but I can say it will be upswing. It will not be hockey stick, but it will be upswing quarter by quarter. Our intention is this full year, if we could manage to the last year's EBITDA, that will be ultimate satisfaction to us. Hopefully, I'm clear to give you the answer.
Right, sir. Understood. So sir, can we assume that this lower-cost RM alumina prices that you might have will be sitting in the inventory will be consumed from Q2, and what kind of margins can we expect in the coming quarters?
That's what I'm saying. I cannot give you the margin percentage. I'm saying it will be upside. By September, this high-cost inventory should be consumed, and Q2 will also, I assume, from Q1, there will be some uptick on Q2, and Q3 will still be better. That's what I can say.
So we can talk to a full-year guidance that, as Parmod mentioned, that our aim is to achieve the profitability percentage that we had last full-year results. So this is what we are aiming for this year, full-year results, so which basically you can use that probably for modeling for sure, but we don't want to give a quarter-on-quarter guidance at the moment.
Got it, sir. Understood. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Welcome.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sahil Sanghvi from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, Team RHI, and congratulations for a really good set of numbers, keeping aside the margins, which will definitely recover. Now, my question is regarding the 4PRO model. I mean, I just wanted some more details about what new are we doing in this model. How different is it from the total refractory management contracts that we had earlier, and is this something which gives us more margins than the usual way of selling these products?
Okay. Sahil , thank you very much for your kind words and support. The thing is, this 4PRO earlier was TRM. So TRM was total refractory management. So it was more focused on maintaining inventory and running the steel plant or cement plant on a per ton of steel basis. But now we add a lot of other elements where we provide them robotic solution, scanning solution, checking their erosion patterns. We provide them slab detection systems. We provide them artificial intelligence, digitalization of their processes. There are many things. And apart from this, even we are providing or talking with them about their metallurgical problems and how refractory can contribute in that also. So this is a wholesome solution for any steel plant. So this differentiates us from our competition.
And as far as margin concerned, yes, automatically, if we will go in this model, the margin will be better in long term. But as I'm saying this, don't expect that next quarter it will happen. For this robotic solution for JSW, it took almost two years to really get feasibility study as a tough competition with our competitor, who is also very strong in flow control, to whom I'm talking about. And we had to showcase our capability to JSW management that we can do it. Then we got this contract, which is a five-year-long contract, and now JSW is asking us to do feasibility study in another two plants, and similar groups are also asking us to do feasibility study. But it will happen if we start now, probably after a year or so, we will have upswing of this type of solution. It is not immediate solution.
But long term, this will differentiate us from our competition. This will add value to customers, and they will believe us as a partner, not a supplier.
Sahil, you can look at our investor deck on page number 14. We have provided a link wherein you can click on to understand the 4PRO model. What does it mean? A lot of details have been provided with customer testimonial, not only for India but across the world. As boss said, it's the next evolution of TRM model where it will help us to. It's a new business model. That's the way you need to model it.
Sure, sure, sir. Sure, sir. This is helpful, and good to hear that we are doing something over and above how the industry works. Secondly, on exports, do we have sort of a new understanding as to how we want to ramp up exports? I mean, I believe we were working on some new ways of doing it. I mean, maybe through our entities or something else. But anything on any progress on the export front?
Yes, there is a progress, but still, I would say we are at the advanced stage of trials for outside world, apart from India. So it should happen in 2026. We have quite a reasonably good plan to increase our export in flow control in 2026. Okay.
Sure, sure.
Another six months or so.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you, Sahil.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Sucrit Patil from Eyesight Fintrade Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Morning to the RHIM team, and I have a specific question for Mr. Azim Syed. Are you there online?
Mr. Patil, can you please be a little louder? We can't hear you properly.
Sorry. Morning to the RHIM team, and I have a specific question for Mr. Syed . So is Mr. Syed online?
Yes, yes, I am.
Yes, sir. So hi there. My name is Sucrit Patil, and I just want to understand your view. My question is, as RHIM is trying to scale its India operation, how are you evaluating your capital allocation framework to balance refractory capacity expansion, sustainability-linked investment, and potential inorganic growth, especially in light of margin volatility across end markets? And do you think this will have some positive impact on the company in the next two to three years? Thank you, sir.
Yeah. So your voice was not clear, but let me see if I got your question correctly. You're asking about our capital allocation strategy in conjunction with inorganic growth and what would be the impact of it in the medium term on the profitability. Is this correct?
Correct. 100% correct.
Okay. Exactly. Our CapEx allocation strategy follows. Let me kind of explain how we think about our capital allocation strategy. First thing, we will do capital allocation if we have a positive cash flow. That's the first requirement. If it is there, our first investment would be on the maintenance CapEx because we believe in safe operation. Second is to provide dividends for our shareholders. Third thing, we always link our CapEx investment within our plants where we can enhance, and after that is where we think about our mergers and acquisitions or joint ventures based upon our strategic fit. Okay? So this is how our capital allocation strategy comes in, and after that comes the buybacks and so on and so forth. This is the order of priority for us.
To kind of give you some color on this aspect, one thing is that we will invest fitting in our strategic initiatives, which we think we did it in the last two years quite effectively. So we wanted market share in cement and in industrial, so that's kind of justified our acquisitions with Dalmia. And then we wanted to kind of have stronger presence in the flow control market, especially the thin slabs, so that's where we went for Hi-Tech . And we did the Ashwath Technologies recent acquisition, again, completely funded by our balance sheet because this kind of fitted in our strategic investment in terms of how we can strengthen our flow control on the machinery side. So this was a good linkage for us. So that's the rationale for the past.
For the upward looking, we believe that at the moment, our investments will be more towards CapEx in terms of plant modernization and productivity-related investments. So this is where we'll do much of our investment. That's where you see a little bit of a CapEx increase from last quarter to this quarter, almost by 90%. Again, we are trying to kind of improve our input cost improvement. That's the way we are kind of focusing at the moment. So profitability, more than profitability, we always measure KPI called ROIC. This is what we try to check our investment capability. If a ROIC is passing certain threshold that we have internally, you can assume it depends on business segment to business segment.
On an average, you can assume that if it's more than 10%, this is where we kind of put our money there because we believe not in a quarterly profitability gain because of our broad and wide portfolio. We look into a long-term investment in terms of what's the payback period and how if the ROIC is meeting a very stringent internal criteria that we have. So that's how we kind of come to this decision-making of if it's a good investment or bad investment. By the way, it's not only for acquisition we do the ROIC decision-making. We also do for any kind of a CapEx initiative that we deliver, even for maintenance CapEx as well. Hope that clarifies and answers your question.
That is correct. Thank you very much. That is good enough guidelines for me. Thank you very much. Have a nice day.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arijit Dutta from Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have three questions, starting with the first one, which is on the volumes. So this quarter has seen some bit of volumes growth, which is admirable. I just want to understand in the volumes if we have any one-off kind of thing which is related to commissioning of a blast furnace, which will not be kind of repetitive, which will come after a while again.
The first question's answer is it will continue like that. So we have a very strong order book, and as in my last investor call, I said we expect 8%-9% volume growth. So this is in line with that.
And one time as well, actually, the Q4 numbers to answer your question more specifically. So in this Q1, we didn't have any.
Perfect. Good to hear that. So the second question is on the pricing part. Domestically, how you are seeing the competition level because there are a lot of overlapping capacity with everyone entering each other's territory. Last quarter, you have given a very, very robust, very, very categorically answered that the competition is increasing. How we are seeing on the overall market scenario now, undercutting the prices and the intensity of competition, sir?
You are absolutely right. There's overlapping, undercutting pricing. Everything is happening in this market. Only solution is, or you can differentiate yourself from the competition, or you can provide additional service or support or quality that the competition is not able to provide. So we are, as I said, as we were also talking about 4PRO, so we are working on differentiation and also how much we can be more cost competitive, how good we are in our plant production cost management, how we can reduce our reduction levels, how we can increase our circular economy. So we want to be ahead of our competition by many initiatives which we are taking. But of course, this is 80% of market is still commoditized, and we have to be two steps ahead if we want to maintain our volume growth with the sustainable margin.
Perfect, sir. So third question is on the OCL part of our operation. So do you see that there are challenges in the cement industry per se, or even we are planning to upgrade the infrastructure in OCL plant because I believe that's a very old machinery, and in absence of better word, it's a bit inefficient also?
I think it's a combination of both. We have increased our market share from 12%-13% prior to acquisition of Dalmia to almost 42%-43%. But there's too much commoditization. Everybody enters into this, and there's price cutting, etc., etc. So then we start working on our product optimization or we can be more competitive. We have market share. Now we have to improve margins. So we are working on that. At the same time, as you said, the infrastructure in Dalmia plants are too old. And as Azim said, that we are putting up almost double the CapEx what we were doing in these plants to modernize these plants so that we have a more efficient operation and reduce our in-house rejections, improve quality, etc., apart from product optimization.
Perfect. Nice to hear that. So last question is on export part. In the export market, what we understand is that there are a lot of Chinese competition, and the lucrativeness of that market is slowly going away. Like we see in domestic, in export also, the situation is same because of the Chinese presence. So any update on that, how you are looking at it?
I don't see China as a threat or challenge because our export is based on flow control products, and China is mostly into magnesia carbon bricks, etc. So I don't see them as a challenge for our export initiative.
Understood, sir.
The key factor on export would be the demand must pick up in the export market. As you can see, there's quite a bit of geopolitical challenges. There's not a lot of production happening in the key export market in Asia. I think this also needs to pick up apart from our own capability as well. That's where you will see quite a bit of an upswing. But yeah, I think we are ready, as Parmod mentioned, that our trials are going on pretty well and in advanced stages. But yes, this also is a key factor as well.
This right on the magnesia part, do you see there has been Chinese import that is happening because China has been pushing on the magnesia plate a lot?
Magnesia. You are trying to say, right?
Magnesia, yeah. Yes, sir. Magnesia refractories.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Almost 50% of the commodity business, if we talk about the ladle business or so, the Chinese traders are coming because China is having overcapacity, and their aspiration is very small. So they undercut the pricing. They are traders. If they get some 2%-3% margin or so, even then they are happy to get orders, right? And at the same time, many Indian players have jumped into magnesia carbon brick ladle business. So almost, I think, eight or nine small players which probably you never heard the name of are now producing magnesia carbon bricks. So there is the overcapacity, particularly for this commodity business. So we are working on our way how we can be more competitive in this segment and keep our market share not intact but improved. So we are very confident we will be able to maintain this growth, what I'm talking about, 8%-9% volume.
Right, sir. The last one is on Hi-Tech specifically. What I believe that our hopes on Hi-Tech products are very high. In absence of better word, the result is disappointing, what we are seeing in Hi-Tech. Do you feel the same that it has not delivered as per our original estimate, and it's still struggling? The scope that we envisage for Hi-Tech has not actually materialized.
I would say we are not disappointed. It is a bit slow. I can share you one thing. In one of the plants, I just got this information today morning. In thin slab caster, we deliver 26 hours casting time, which is equivalent to the best in the market. You know who is it in thin slab caster?
Yes, sir.
From Jamshedpur plant. It means now the results are coming. It is an initial stage. If we are able to sustain or give consistent product at this level, probably next year we will be equal for competing in the tender, right? It will be replicate in other plants as well. The confidence of other plants will also go up to go for a trial or for a commercial trial because in India, we were not having reference. Now we are creating reference with very good results. Secondly, when we have this Hi-Tech in mind, you are thinking a lot of export from this plant, which due to geopolitical situation could not happen. And as I said, in 2026, there will be quite a big upside because market is not responsive. It is a bit slow. European market is almost 40% down.
Only West Asia, East Asia, and African countries where we are targeting. We are getting a very good response of our trials, and hopefully, next year, we will be able to fill up with Jamshedpur plant when it comes to isostatic. We have already ramped up the slide gate production capability in Jamshedpur plant. We have creating this excellence of iron making in Jamshedpur plant. We will be putting up all our machinery division in Jamshedpur plant, so all in all, we have infrastructure. We have a capability to turn around this plant to the desired level in coming days or months.
Since the technology in this plant is pretty old, that time it was one of the best, but after this plant has been underinvested. We are planning for a major overhaul in terms of technology also here?
I would not agree to that. The technology is still very relevant, but at the same time, our R&D is also working on upgrading the already established quality and technology, so it is not even in Bhiwadi plants. We keep on doing upgrading, innovation, R&D activity happening across all our plant in the globe, and Hi-Tech also, we are doing that, but still Hi-Tech has a very stable, established quality and technology.
Perfect, sir. Thanks for the elaborative answer. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B & K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, Parmod sir. Good morning, Azim. I had a few questions. The first one, sir, is on the employee cost. We've seen a 9% decline in the employee cost. Now, we saw a large jump in the employee cost in the last two years due to the acquisition and some one-offs as well. So are we to assume that the employee cost will be stable this year or come down a little bit from last year's level? That was the first question.
So it will be somewhere about 10% employee benefit cost. This is what you can model, Rajesh.
Negative. Better than last year.
No, so last year, we did 11.5%, right, last quarter. This quarter, we did 9%. So I'm talking about that number. So it will hover around 10% for the full year.
Okay. That's great to hear. And secondly, sir, we also talked about the fact that the revenue growth will be along these lines. And also, we've got a little bit of a price hike in the alumina refractories as well. So if you take that and the 14% kind of margin that you've guided for the full year, it would mean that the EBITDA for the year would be somewhere close to FY 2024 levels or even slightly better, not FY 2025. Earlier in the call, you mentioned you plan to achieve FY 2025 levels. But if you do the math, on a 9% growth and 14% margin, it comes to somewhere around FY 2024 levels. So are we missing something here?
Yes, we have already missed one first quarter, and it was 10.2%, so this is 10.8%, so we already missed it, so now, if we have exponential growth, price increases, everything, you average out everything, and if we will match the 13.7%, I think it will be a great satisfaction, at least for me.
Also, right, I mean, alumina price is at.
You should be happy, Rajesh, with this.
No, no. Yes, Azim, I've seen something.
I was basically saying that another factor is that aluminum cost, raw material, in our P&L, it will flow through until September also, right? So it will be a steady-state growth. Even we get price increase and everything, and you suddenly go into quite a bit of comfortable margin. So yes, for the full year, that's the reason for our guidance.
Okay. And, sir, my last question is that are we doing anything on the industrial refractory side? Because we've talked about steel, we've talked about cement, and we haven't seen anything on the industrial side. Is there any initiative there? Are we going to see something happening on that side? Yeah.
Actually, we are definitely looking at projects. Unfortunately, for non-ferrous or glass, all the projects are shifted to 2026, 2027. So unfortunately, there's no project in the pipeline for this FY. So unfortunately, we can't do much. But at the same time, with the Resco in our portfolio now, this American company which we acquired in the beginning of this year, they have many products, a very niche product, very high-end products, which they are selling to even this Reliance Industries. So they are very strong in petrochemical, and we are now leveraging it on and not only limited to Reliance, but we have many PSU refineries also, petrochemical companies. So that is where we are working on, and it will yield results in the coming year or so.
Okay. This is going to be imported products or products locally made?
Initially, it will be imported, but we will try to localize it with a period of time.
Okay. So last question is, what is the kind of total CapEx you're planning per annum now with the Dalmia plant and everything, maintenance CapEx included?
We will almost double the last year's CapEx full year to this year.
It is about INR 150, INR 140, INR 150 crores total.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Rajesh.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Pathanjali Srinivasan from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, I have a couple of questions. So this refractory management service business, how much would have been the share in this quarter for us? Has it gone down meaningfully?
If you talk, it is primarily limited to steel industry. So we have roughly 32%-33% market share in this niche business.
No, sir. In our share of top line, how much is it?
You are talking about the revenue percentage?
Correct, correct.
This time, our fee was close to about 81%.
Out of this 81%, you have to take out 32%, right? So it's still 32%.
32%, okay. So it has declined pretty meaningfully from our Q3. And between volume growth, so where is the volume growth higher?
Sorry, we did not get you. From where you get this? We have not reduced. It has gone up by 1% or so.
Exactly.
No, I think from Q3 I'm talking about. But okay, yeah. And I wanted to know volume growth between sectors.
He is talking about TRM, Q4 was 35% and Q1 was 32%. That's what you are talking about?
Yes, yes. That's correct.
Okay, okay. So actually, this is why because in last quarter or so, we were not able to get price increases. So prices were under stress, and we got now price increases, and it will be on the same level. In fact, we are in a very final stage of having two more 4PRO or TRM contracts in the pipeline.
Understood, sir. Okay. And in terms of volume growth, we've reported 13% volume growth. So which segment has grown faster here? Is it more of a commoditized business which has grown faster, which is why there's a drag on the margins? And is that also the reason why the gross margins have also fallen?
Yeah, you can say it is a combination, but yeah, mostly it is a commodity business, cement bricks or magnesia carbon ladle bricks, etc.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
And also iron making.
Sir, what is the margins there, sir, in iron making right now? And what is our aspiration long term?
Margin is about 18%-20% standard margin, and it is under stress, I would say. We have just entered two years back, and the leaders, three big leaders, are there, so we aspire to still grow in this market, and we will not be looking at margin as of now for another year or so, but we want to take this from last two years. When we started, we were having 2% market share, and now we have 13% market share, and aspiration is 25%-30% in the next two, three years' time, so it will not be very lucrative business, so to say, but we have to first establish ourselves, and then margin will automatically come.
Exactly. When we say we will not look at margin percentage, it doesn't mean that we'll go for any price. I just want to clarify that. We are very focused and disciplined on the right customer strategy, selecting the right customer strategy and what is the long-term partnership that we can have where we can add value to the customer. So that's what we will target. As you can see, even with the market share penetration strategy, we have not bad margins comparing to a commodity business.
Understood, sir. So what would our contribution of this segment to our top line be currently?
I am making somewhere around 10%.
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaustav from BMPSL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. I had a question on your capital efficiency. Because of your intangible assets, right, your capital employed, if I include the intangible assets as well up, and so your net worth is also around INR 4,000 crores. So even if you more than double your PAT, right, it's two to three years down the line. Even if you do INR 350 crores of PAT, you're still at single-digit ROE and very low double-digit ROCs. So what's your view on this, and how do you plan to readjust your capital structure to get better capital efficiency?
It's a very good question, first of all. Thanks for asking this question because this is what we talk about in our monthly reviews and everything. So you need to think of this in four different initiatives, how we are going to improve the ROIC or ROCs for our shareholders. So number one is our market share. So what we are planning to do here, basically, is that the first pillar, let's talk some specific numbers here in the area of iron making. As Parmod said, we grew from 2%- 15%. The next tangible thing for us to do, I'm talking three-year time frame, please keep that in mind, is to go to 30%. So this is an underrepresented market. With the acquisition, we have these capabilities, and we are very confident with the proven track record that we can take it to 30%.
So that's the first thing. The second thing is to import some of our product transfer from our group-acquired entities, primarily being Resco. Second, also with the P-D Refractories. So these are two very high-margin products which we will domesticate to meet our Indian market needs. And we believe that this will add quite a bit of improvement in our profitability. The third thing, basically, also is that in some of the product transfer, especially in the cement segment, where we have these high-margin technologies that we will also introduce, especially on the Mg side or Magnesia side, which we believe that that will also quite a bit increase our profitability. So this is what we want to do to outgrow the market. The second lever is, and this is the most important one, is our new business model introduction. This is your 4PRO.
The advantage of 4PRO, basically, is that, excuse me, is to kind of we want to expand our robotics offering. What it ensures is two things. One, it is our fixed cost improvement because we have long-term contracts and commitments. And this basically will yield us customer stickability and also will ensure that we have steady-state gains. And most importantly, one of the biggest weaknesses in refractory business is the volatility due to commoditization of this product. We aim to eliminate this with the 4PRO model. So we believe that with this introduction of business model, it will help us to achieve consistent profitability, not a stairway that we normally see with our profitability. The third and the most important lever what we are doing is that to improve our cost determinant.
Here, what we are trying to do is that we are one of the biggest levers that we utilize through our R&D center is. One of the things that we do is that through our recipe harmonization and through R&D improvement in terms of adapting our product portfolio. For example, in case of product, in case of segments like cement, which has low margins, we are in the process of revamping our product offering to a customer which meets the needs of today's customer's production. Second, basically, is that how we can optimize our recipes to meet this for us to be competitive in case of the most commoditized segment, which we can't attract through 4PRO. The third thing, basically, I already mentioned the localizing much of our production. This will improve our capacity utilization. We used to hover about 55% last quarter. We did 61%.
We believe that this will localizing the acquired entity product portfolio will help us to achieve our production efficiencies and drive even more furthermore profitability. Now, let's talk about the balance sheet item, which is focused mostly on the working capital item. Parmod has given a very stringent target that consistently we should be able to perform 25% of our working capital intensity. We see a lot of opportunities in our overdues. We also are launching one of our corporate programs called Everest. Everest is the introduction of a supply chain planning tool, which is aiming towards improving our customer service without compromising or without trading off with our cost or on our investment in our inventory. So this, we believe that it will help us to improve our balance sheet further.
On top of it, we also believe that the pricing initiatives and the new contract mechanism we have, which will kind of give us even quite a bit of upside in our profitability in the next two years, and on the CapEx side, we will be absolutely disciplined. This is our highest tier of CapEx investment, which we are using to modernize our Dalmia plant. Next year, we'll go back to FY 2024 run rates, so this will also give us quite a bit of a breathing space on the working capital on the CapEx side as well. With this, we have modeled it. These are the initiatives that we are completely banking upon, and we are seeing some progress quarter on quarter. It's a long game, as you know, in the ROIC stuff.
We are very confident that we can easily enter into double digits based on our internal modeling. Hopefully, it answers that question.
I mean, it answers the question on you growing your profitability. But the point is that the beginning of my question was that even if you grow your profitability 150% from here, which so your question answers you, how will you grow your profitability more than double from here, right? But more on the side of the capital employed, yes, you spoke about improving your working capital efficiency. But what about write-offs on goodwill on intangible assets to reduce your overall capital employed based on non-performance of the acquired asset?
We did this already in the last financial year. If you recall, I'm not sure if you're aware of it. Last, we took a write-off of EUR 35 million worth of it because we believe that the export business that was embedded in the business plan of the acquired entity, we were not able to fulfill. And because of the currency as well, at which the business was valued when we had done the acquisition. At the moment, based upon we did, as you know, that one of the stat requirements is that we need to do this goodwill study on a yearly basis. And last year, we did a very comprehensive study on it. One of the things I'm not sure if you're able to follow, that our capacity utilization in the acquired plants also has increased quite significantly in the Dalmia plant.
This was introduced because we started to have an optimized recipe for our magnesia carbon bricks, which we have started to produce at Rajgangpur already. And we don't expect any kind of an impairment because of these kind of initiatives that we already said. So yeah, I don't foresee it at the moment.
You've answered my question. Thank you so much.
Welcome.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Agicha from HG Hawa . Please go ahead.
Yes.
Yes, sir. Please continue.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question was connected to the order book. Can you just brief us about what is the current order book size in its segment and our geography? Let's speak.
Your audio was not clear. The question, let me see if I got it correctly, you want to know if our order book is good and where it is good. Is that the question?
Yes, sir.
So we have a very strong order book in iron making area and also in the steel area as well. Steel making, especially with our integrated steel plants on the TRM side. I think you guys are aware that because of the 12% safeguard tariff, there is quite a bit of a positive momentum on the steel customer side, which we are able to correlate, which we can see in our order book. Second, we have regained some of the market share that were from L2 to level one supplier in the public sector unit plant. So here also, we see quite a bit of a very strong order book to be fulfilled. Now, the question remains is the function of if they are able to produce as they have committed.
And because we have this long-term TRM contract, which we supply based upon the exhaustion of their refractory materials, we see a strong order book just to simplify it. You want to add something to it?
Nothing.
So yeah. So I think that would be the final question, right, Operator?
Yes, sir.
Would you be able to complete that?
Thank you. There are no further questions from the participants. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Parmod Sagar for closing comments.
Thank you very much, shareholders and analysts, for your continuous support and very engaging discussion, questions. I hope me and Azim are able to satisfy you, give right guidance to you. But in fact, if you have any further questions, please reach out to Geeta, and she will be able to reply to you back for any clarification. Thank you so much. Have a nice day. Bye-bye.
On behalf of RHI Magnesita India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.