Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Ceinsys Tech Ltd. Q4 FY25 Conference Call hosted by Ventura Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Tushar Pendharkar from Ventura Securities. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you and very warm welcome to everyone. On behalf of Ventura Securities Limited, I am pleased to welcome you all on the earnings conference call of Ceinsys Tech for Q4 FY25. We are happy to have the management of the company with us here today. Management is represented by Mr. Prashant Kamat, Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Kaushik Khona, Managing Director, India Operations, and Mr. KP Surej, CEO Designate and Additional Director. We will begin with the opening remarks from the management, followed by an interactive question-and-answer session. With this, I'll hand over the call to Mr. Prashant Kamat. Over to you, sir.
Good morning. I'm Kaushik. Allow me to begin with.
Okay. Go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining. Welcome to this earnings conference call. It is a pleasure to welcome you at this call for the Q4 and the Financial Year Ended 2025. Let me first thank our host for today's con call, Ventura Securities Limited. In the interest of some of the people who may be new to the company, let me first start by giving you a brief overview of the company, and then followed by performance highlights for the quarter under review and the year under review.
Ceinsys Tech, which has been recently rebranded as CS TECH AI, while the corporate name remains Ceinsys Tech Ltd., we are a leading Technology Solutions provider in the IT-enabled sector. We are acclaimed for our expertise in geospatial engineering as well as other engineering services and solutions. We offer a broad range of geospatial intelligence services, including data creation, analytics, decision support system, and enterprise web solutions. In the financial year 2022, we strategically expanded into the mobility sector by acquiring AllyGrow Technologies, a specialized engineering service provider with a strong international presence.
This acquisition allowed the company to enhance its capabilities into manufacturing technology and mobility engineering solutions, covering the entire product development process and industrial automation for diverse sectors such as two- and three-wheelers, passenger cars, commercial vehicles, and off-highway equipment. We serve prestigious global clientele that include large corporates, OEMs, asset management companies, and government bodies, highlighting our robust reputation in both geospatial and manufacturing and mobility sectors. With offices in India, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Germany, we combine local expertise with a broad international reach.
Additionally, we have established an Innovation and Emerging Technologies wing, which is engaged in the development of new Technology Solutions through the use of artificial intelligence and machine learning, and have provided various solutions to enhance the efficiency of the delivery of the ongoing projects as well as also for developing new process technology and the products. This vertical emphasizes the advancement in Metaverse, EdTech, gaming, and mobility, reflecting the company's commitment to innovation and maintaining a competitive edge in a dynamic technological landscape.
This is what the company continues to enhance this for the competitive solution. The company has added resources for business development in the U.S., which will enable us to focus on the growth of offshore business in the coming years. Now, let me provide some key highlights of our financial and operational performance for the Q4 and the financial year ended 31 March 2025.
For the quarter under review, our operational revenues grew by 81.9% year-on-year to INR 142 crore, and EBITDA grew by 116% year-on-year to INR 27 crore, with EBITDA margins at 18.82%. Net profit was reported at INR 22 crore, which represents a growth of around 89% year-on-year, and the PAT margins stood at 15.38%. For the financial year ended 31 March 2025, our operational revenues mounted to INR 418 crore, demonstrating a strong year-on-year growth of 65%. EBITDA also saw a robust increase, rising by almost 77% year-on-year to around INR 78 crore, with EBITDA margins of around 18.63%. Additionally, our net profit surged by 81% year-on-year to INR 63 crore, and a PAT margin of 15.12%.
The growth in both revenue and EBITDA margins was driven by successful execution of projects, which contributed to stronger margins. Additionally, our ongoing initiatives to improve operational efficiency have enabled us to handle higher volumes more effectively, further boosting our performance. The results reflect the amalgamation of 100% subsidiary AllyGrow Technologies Private Limited, which has been allowed to be amalgamated with effect from 1 April 2024, as per the recent order of the Honorable NCLT. While ATPL was already previously consolidated, the merger streamlines the reporting. The company reported strong growth in its geospatial business, driven by increased focus on water, IoT, and enterprise solutions.
As of year-end, it holds an investable surplus of around INR 105 crore for inorganic opportunities, along with an operational cash surplus of INR 45 crore. As of the end of March, the total confirmed order book stands at around INR 1,197 crore. Of this, projects in the water domain account for INR 1,019 crore, and the geospatial enterprise solution services contribute around INR 178 crore. On the operational front, the current ratio improved from 2.6% of the year 2023-2024 to 2.82% in this year, reflecting a stronger liquidity position and enhanced short-term financial stability.
A key highlight for the financial year 2024-2025 is a significant improvement in the turnover-to-net working capital ratio, which increased from 3.2 x in the previous year to 4.4 x in this year, financial year 2024-2025, indicating again enhanced operational efficiency and a better capital utilization. The execution of Technology Solutions projects witnessed a 3.5x increase during the year 2024-2025, rising from INR 60 crore of last year to INR 213 crore of the year 2024-2025, which reflects a strong demand and enhanced delivery capabilities. The share of Technology Solutions in total turnover increased significantly from 24% of the total turnover of last year to 51% of the turnover of this year, underscoring the company's strategic focus on the high-value digital initiatives.
We have invested around INR 12 crore towards the business development for expansion into the U.S. market, and this has been expensed out in the profit and loss account for the year 2024-2025. Enthused with the performance, the board has recommended a higher dividend at 35% as compared to 25% last year. This will be paid once approved by the members at the ensuing annual meeting. On the human resource front, the company continues to invest into training and development of its skilled and experienced technical resources. Employee costs as a percentage of revenue declined to 30% in this year from 35% of the previous year, reflecting enhanced operational efficiency. This is further evidenced by the fact that there is a notable increase in turnover per employee, which rose to around INR 3.34 million per employee in this year as compared to INR 2.29 million per employee in the previous year.
One of the significant moves, the board appointed industry veteran Mr. Phaneesh Murthy as an additional director at its recent meeting on 3 May 2025. Mr. Murthy, with over 25 years of experience, has led major outsourcing deals for Fortune 500 companies and currently serves as a strategic consultant through his firm, Primentor Inc. We look forward to his valuable insights to grow the international business. Besides, as informed, the board has also appointed Mr. KP Surej as an Additional Director at its meeting on 3 May 2025 and as a CEO Designate of the company. He was earlier appointed as CEO of the TA, which is the holding subsidiary of the company in the U.S.
The year 2024-2025 was eventful, and we added major contracts secured during the financial year, which include a prestigious River Linking Project in Maharashtra, valued at INR 381 crore of revenue; an IoT-based project with Maharashtra State Water and Sanitation Mission, with INR 332 crore of the order value; a service provider contract for implementing integrated GIS enterprise for CIDCO, which is valued at INR 229 crore; the selection of system integrator for the Integrated Digital Transformation of MHADA, which is valued at around INR 29 crore. These contracts reflect the breadth of our capabilities and our continued success in securing significant projects across various domains.
On the policy front, we are happy for the continued and enhanced focus by the government policies, which were announced recently by the Honorable Finance Minister. Some of the notable announcements include the extension of the Jal Jeevan Mission till 2028, which intends to cover 100% for the various Water schemes where CS Tech has also a huge role to play. Besides, it also announced the starting of the National Geospatial Mission using the PM Gati Shakti, which will facilitate modernization of land records, urban planning, and design of infrastructure projects. Building on the 2024 budget proposal for incentivizing urban land reforms relating to governance, municipal services, urban land, and planning reforms have also been announced.
In closing, we are focused on driving growth and continuing to deliver on our commitments. We remain optimistic about the future and look forward to sharing more updates as we progress. With this, now I open the floor for the Question- and-A nswer session. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the Question- and-A nswer session. If you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing star and one again. The first question is from the line of Rohit Singh from Nvest Analytics Advisory. Please go ahead.
Hello. Can I audience?
Yes, you are.
Good morning from the Nvest Analytics Advisory , Mumbai. I have three questions. One is on our order book side. So in this quarter, our order book declined by almost INR 190 crore, whereas the revenue book did only INR 140 crore. So could you clarify the reasons behind this gap and whether a fall in this order book in this quarter is suggesting a little bit of lack of fresh orders received despite your guidance that we are having the annual quarterly generator INR 400 crore order pipeline? So does that mean recent developments like 45% proposed reduction in the Centre's share under the JJM are affecting our input? And if so, do you see this leading to any near to medium-term headwinds for the business? So that's my first question.
Prashant, if I can take this?
Of course. Good.
So, thanks for your question and thanks for your analysis. I think the order book increase during the year was around INR 800 crore. You are talking of the quarter. You are right that the order book which has been consumed for the execution was around INR 190 crore, and the new orders which have been added during the quarter were less than that. However, this is no indication that there is any dearth of opportunities or there is any dearth of new order book to be followed. As regards to the announcement of the Centre that allocation for JJM schemes are going to be reduced, first of all, the reduction is not even right now spelled out about what amount, but we understand that the earlier allocation was asked by almost five times than the previous allocation.
So the allocation itself asked by the state was higher, and the Centre has moderated to the reasonable number. That itself is not anyway affecting the opportunities for CS Tech because on a yearly budget of spent of around INR 110,000 crore, our share of the revenue is not going to be more than, let's say, even if we talk about the high potential, it will not be more than 3% to 4% to 5%. And in the past conference calls also, we have mentioned that the geospatial part of the Jal Jeevan Mission will be not more than 78%. So I think the Jal Jeevan Mission is not the only source, but in any case, Jal Jeevan Mission is also still a lot of potential to be tapped.
Right now, we are only focused into Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, and we are tapping into some other states. So there are a lot of potential still to be tapped. So, we don't see any headwinds in the coming future, and we expect the order book to be, we expect new orders also to be which we already tapped, for which we already applied. We will hear some of the success stories soon. I hope it answers your question.
What about this gap? Order book declined by 190 crore, and you are saying we consumed 190 crore, but why the revenue is 140 crore? That's what I'm trying to understand.
Order book— see, when you reduction of the order book, you are referring to the numbers as on 31 March 2025?
Yes, as on 31 March 2025 as compared to 31 December 2024.
In the order book, we have, when we talked about the order book, we are talking of only the geospatial order book, and we have order book around INR 140 crore for the mobility business, which we had not counted even at the time of which was mentioned during the call. So I think that order book has not reduced. That is the annual revenue potential, which continues to grow over there. So there is no reduction of order in that sense.
Okay. And so, secondly, on our trade receivable balances: our earnings have improved, but cash flow generation remains weak due to a substantial build-up in the trade receivable. I agree, Q4 is typically execution-heavy, and we understand some lag can be there. But there are some reports that are indicating Maharashtra government is delaying the payments to the contractors. So, could you please share what percentage of our outstanding receivables are from the Maharashtra government or any other government entity for that matter? And by when do you realistically expect these dues to be collected?
So, one thing, let me clarify that the trade receivables also include unbilled revenues. And actually, I am happy to report that during the, as of 31 March 2025, our debtors have actually gone down. So, when we talk about the total debtors, the trade receivables, which is we are talking of INR 253 crores, this includes the unbilled amount of INR 135 crores, while the debtors have already come down as compared to the previous year. And if you look at the percentage of debtors and the trade receivables as compared to the turnover, it is in line or it is actually better than the previous year.
The Unbilled Revenue is basically the execution of the project, which we are not able to bill because of the certain milestones of billing not yet achieved. So therefore, the trade receivables are not a cause of worry. We have, in fact, in the month of March, we have received a substantial amount of receivables which were due, and around INR 88 crore of the total receivable was received in the month of March. So, there is no overdue in respect of the Maharashtra government, which is outstanding as of 31 March 2025. The majority of the trade Receivables, as I said, is of Unbilled Revenue, and these will be billed as and when the milestone for that will be achieved.
During the quarter of Q1 of 2025-2026, the outstanding receivables, which are debtors, which are the Billed Revenue, we expect that to be received. And even, in fact, in the month of April and May, we also received whatever was receivable. So there is no cause of any concern as regards outstanding dues from any government or, for that matter, any other receivables.
Understood, sir. And just last question on the Godavari River Linking Project. So what's the update on that? Specifically, how much revenue was booked from this project in Q4? And whether the execution is progressing as per the contractual timeline, or if any delays are anticipated? Because if we remember, I think we started late on this project, right?
The Vidarbha Project, the actual Letter of Allotment was granted on 13 January 2025, although the award was provided in the month of November. There was a delay of two months from the government to give us the actual Letter of Award. After the Letter of Award, only the work begins. Since then, we have made a considerable progress. In fact, we have deployed more than 88 people on site for this new project, which are the new recruits which we have recruited since the month of November, December. On site, there is a substantial progress by deployment of all the infrastructure and all the equipment which are required to carry out the DPR survey. We also have kind of greatly commenced and completed the first link of the aerial LiDAR survey.
The entire project is divided into three links. The first link, majority of the aerial LiDAR survey has been completed. Every day, almost 150 to 175 square kilometers of the aerial LiDAR flying is happening. We expect that flying to be completed by the end of this month, 31 May 2025. We expect that the entire aerial LiDAR data processing should be over by 30 June 2025. We are progressing as per the project charter as of now, and there is no delay. There are no pending issues at our end. There are one or two departmental consents, which are also awaited, and they are progressing well. On an overall basis, we don't expect any delay in the execution of this project.
Just to follow up on your reply.
I'm sorry.
Are we expecting the completion of this almost, I think, INR 350 crore order? So are we expecting it to be completed in Q1? Like the revenue booking will be in the Q1 only?
No, no. In fact, project is not expected to be completed by Q1. It has a project. There will be a majority portion, which I think we had forecasted of around INR 150 crore in the Q1, which we hope that we will be able to do it within the Q1. This is right now as per the execution which is going on. So we will keep you updated in the next investor conference call about the progress which has happened on the Q1.
I think 150 CR we were expecting earlier, and now you're saying we are not on delay. So that means it should be more than that if we have to complete it because overall timeline was six months only, right?
The award itself has been delayed, as I said, by two months. So after the award, the formality of giving the bank guarantee and further execution of the agreement got completed, and then from 1 February 2025, we have been able to commence the project, so therefore, we are as per the project charter, as I said.
Out of other order books, how much we are going to execute this quarter?
Sorry, this is Prashant. Sorry for the interruption. Just want to add one more topic to what Kaushik is saying. Because we have received order late, there are also points we have discussed with the government. There are also possibilities of compounding delay because with the rainy season coming up, the work will be affected in terms of survey and site testing and all of that for DPR. Just a word of caution there. So right now, I don't think we want to give any futuristic numbers at this call. As we progress, we will definitely keep the people informed about it.
Thank you, sir. I request the participants to restrict the two questions in the initial round and join back with you for more questions. The next question comes from Akshay Patel from AK Investment. Please go ahead.
Hello. Congratulations on the great set of numbers. My first question is about the AllyGrow Technologies. So how much revenue contribution is there from the AllyGrow in FY25?
FY25 project?
The AllyGrow Technologies management numbers.
They will need to put out the numbers.
Yeah, so in INR 413 crore, the AllyGrow Technologies and the share of the profit from the JV is around INR 90 crores. INR 93 crores, sorry. INR 93 crores. I'm talking of the INR 83 crore as a part of revenue and INR 10 crore as a part of the profit.
Okay, and how much do we expect in FY26 from that business?
We generally don't give futuristic numbers, but we can tell you we expect substantial growth in the current year.
Okay. And sir, my second question is on the order pipeline. So how much order pipeline currently we do have and how much order inflow we are expecting in current financial year from all our segments?
So Prashant, if I can just answer that.
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
As we already mentioned, the total order book as of 1 April 2025 is INR 1,197 crore, which is being executed. This is excluding the AllyGrow. I'm talking of only the geospatial and the enterprise solution order book. We keep on adding the new orders based on the new opportunities which we highlight. We are not, I mean, as in the past, we are not able to forecast what is the new order book which will be added, but we keep on tapping the new opportunities which is aligned with our focus on the emerging technologies and more of the Technology Solutions as well as the geospatial.
Typically, our target is to achieve INR 300 to 400 crore worth of order book every quarter. It depends on which opportunities are available. So we cannot directly exactly kind of speculate what will be the order book for each quarter, but our emphasis will be to bid for eligible projects where we have better tailwinds against others so that we can be more competitive than the others. So that's a theme in which we work with for the building of the order book.
Okay, sir. And sir, my last question is on the competition front. So in both of our segments, Geospatial and Technology Solutions, how much other Indian companies are involved in the same segment? And what competitive edge do we have versus the other companies in winning the projects and all the things?
In terms of competition, I think there are many people. So the list will be very long if we want to go through that. But in terms of competitive advantage, you can see it from the numbers. We are definitely doing much better than any other in our competition. We believe the reason for that is our competency, not just technical, but also project execution and the years of experience. We are in the business for 26 years, and the breadth of the services. That's the major reason for us.
Okay, sir. Thanks for answering the question.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Pranay from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
My first question is again on the order book. I think the first participant was asking this. So, I wanted to understand this a bit better because last year, in the last quarter, December quarter results, the order book was mentioned as INR 1,400 crores. The INR 1,390 crore were roughly INR 1,400 crores. And in particular March, three months later, it is supposed as INR 1,200 crores. So now we have investors interpreted as like-for-like comparable. So, we see that the order book has gone down by INR 200 crores, but only INR 140 crores. So, if you can just explain what is the gap and if there is a change in how you are defining the order book, what is the change?
Prashant, can I take it?
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
Yeah. So I think if you were there in the last conference call also and in today's meeting also, I clarified that what order book which we have announced right now, INR 1,197 crore, is in respect of Geospatial and Engineering Services. There is an annual contract for the AllyGrow business, which is not added. So therefore, the gap which you see is because of that. If we add that AllyGrow business, the order book will be the same. So there is no difference between the order book. The INR 1,390 crores included around INR 130 crores as regards to AllyGrow business, which continues to be the part of additional order books. If you revise the order book today, it will be INR 1,197 crore plus INR 130 crores. So it will be INR 1,327 crore. So I think the numbers will be aligned to that.
That's perfectly clear, sir. And I know this question has been asked to you about the order pipeline and because I think the concern is common that now we are starting a downward trend in the order book. And while you were also justified in mentioning that you can't predict it. But what can be shared, if you wish to, is how much of orders have you bid for already, right? So what is the bid pipeline like? Is it significant? Do you expect conversions in the next six months? If you can share anything on the bid pipeline?
So if I can take that.
Can I answer?
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Okay. Prashant, do you answered with the numbers. But let me just try to give a little bit of flavor in terms of principles how we are looking at this order book.
Please.
Gentlemen, what we are trying to do is if you see our growth rate this year, we want to make sure at every beginning of next year, we have a possibility to execute orders higher than this current growth rate. So QoQ and YoY, our growth rates will not tame down in the medium-term future. And whatever is order book required for that is what we will keep generating. One of the concerns we have in terms of keep building that order book beyond the capacity of execution is we don't want to be faltering on the timelines of the government orders which we take. This is not an excuse not to grow, but this is the planning stage at which appropriately working for the growth as well as business development as well as execution of the growth. I'm sorry, Kaushik? Go ahead with your numbers.
Yeah, yeah. No, so again, I would like to reiterate before I give the numbers, and normally, we don't discuss about the pipeline, but as we have already indicated in the past also, our pipeline normally is in the range of INR 300-400 crores every quarter and at any point of time, so even as we speak, we have a pipeline for which we have bid in the range of around INR 355 crore. And that is what we expect something to happen within the next one month or so about these, out of INR 355 crore. We expect the disposal of at least two of the large projects which could be aggregating to more than INR 280 crores in the next one month or so.
That given, the point is the order book is also dependent on the opportunities which we are aligned to us. So if you look at the order book build-up, last quarter, Q3, Q4, sorry, Q2, Q3 of last year, we built up more than INR 760 crore in two quarters. That was because of the opportunities which we got at that time. And we keep on tracking those opportunities. We are seeing more opportunities happening now, and for which we still believe that we are capable to deliver in this range because we also added more capabilities. So we will keep on tapping, as I said, INR 300-400 crore worth of opportunities every point of time, every quarter.
Got it. Thank you, sir. My second question is on some of the things as some of the releases about management changes and ESOP cancellations, especially in the note in the recent results. So, there seems to be a new CEO change. A few of the ESOPs that were granted to Mr. Kamat, about 2 lakh were canceled. There are a large amount of ESOPs which are allocated to Mr. John and Ms. Rafee from the U.S. team, about 10 lakh ESOP, I think. Are canceled because of Ms. Rafee's resignation and generally targets not expected to be met. So, can you give us a sense of what's happening in the senior leadership team and both in India and overseas? And how should we look at this? And just a number, I think INR 13 crore was the ESOP cost in FY25. Should we then expect ESOP cost next year to be zero?
Okay. This is Prashant Kamat. The reason what you are saying on ESOP is I think you understood correctly in terms of overseas employees. Rafee basically resigned from the services. Therefore, she's obviously not eligible for ESOPs. She was a VP female. In the U.S., we wanted her for M&A because we also got a CEO in the U.S. who decided we don't need her services. Therefore, she had to surrender those. And that's one name. The other one, as you said correctly, we were expecting that was linked to the performance. And if the performance is not going to get delivered, those ESOPs are not going to get granted. The third portion which we referred was the ESOPs which I was supposed to get. And these were supposed to be over a period of time.
However, as you would see, we have a new CEO coming up by the end of this year, and it will be unfair on company and investors that the exiting CEO takes all the ESOPs and walks out. Therefore, voluntarily, I said, I will surrender these ESOPs. Rightfully, they should go to the new CEO, not the CEO which is exiting. That's why you saw all the notes and the ESOP numbers. To your second question, whether it is going to be zero cost next year, I don't think so because, one, the new CEO will be coming. We will need to give those ESOPs to him. Plus, the company will have to bring up the new ESOP scheme for the new hiring and the growth plans we are targeting domestically as well as internationally. I hope I was able to give you the answer correctly.
Yes, sir. And on the ESOP cost number for next year, what we should expect there, sir, what would your new role be? Would you be exiting the entire Ceinsys setup, Mr. Kamat?
As of now, we haven't formally defined what my role will be, but my discussion with the board is I'm not going into obligation. I will be around as an advisor, and I will stay probably with the board to support the team going forward as well, but that decision has to be taken by Surej as the CEO. I can't decide my role when I have a new CEO. That will be unfair to him.
That's fair, and the number be next year ESOP posted?
We haven't finalized that. So it will be pretty natural to answer. It's a matter of the discussion at the board level.
Got it. Thank you for answering my questions. I will get back to the queue.
Thank you. I request the participants to restrict with the questions in the initial round and join back the queue for more questions. The next question comes from Nikhil Poptani from Kizuna Wealth . Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Yeah, I'm sorry. Conversations on the breakthrough numbers. Sir, my first question is around the M&A. In the last call, you said that we are looking at four M&A targets. Our overall figure is almost confirmed. So is there any update on that? So yes, we have the two targets which have been discussed in the past. And I had also mentioned that we expect that the due diligence and all the procedure to be completed by April, May.
So we are on the process. Hopefully, in the next one or two months, we will be able to get some headway on those two targets which we are actively working on. So just to follow up on that, so the two targets that you mentioned, are we acquiring them just for the purpose of gaining the capabilities or for an organic growth? Can you highlight certain points on that?
I think we answered this question last time also. We are looking for acquisition strategy for both customer acquisition as well as the competency acquisition, and we will continue to be on that track in the medium-term future.
Okay, that's great to hear. And sir, like our River Linking Project , we have had a delay in that, two months' delay. So, are there any other topics that we are looking that are getting delayed?
Prashant, if I can take it.
Yeah, yeah.
So there are no projects which are getting delayed. Even on the River Linking Project, the meter starts from the day when we start the agreement. So delay was between the date of granting of the announcement of the award and actual award. But otherwise, there is no delay which we are expecting.
Okay, sir, that's great to hear. And then the last question is our bid pipeline. So which states are we bidding in? Can you just mention which states are we targeting to bid?
So Prashant, if I can take this.
Yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
So the states right now, I will not be able to give you the exact states in which I have bid. But our target states are mainly Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, and some of the states which have capability to and vision to grow onto the Geospatial platform, more particularly onto the Water as well as onto the 3D city and urban development plans. And it also includes Gujarat and Rajasthan. But we will keep on tapping opportunities.
Okay, sir, that's great to hear. So that's information. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankur Kumar from Alpha Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Congrats for it with the set of numbers, and thank you for taking my question. Sir, I joined the call a bit late, so my question may be repeated, but any color on the receivable side, there seems to be some increase on that.
I'll just take this. So on receivable side, actually, the things have improved because the Debtor, Receivable, first of all, let me clarify. Receivable has two elements. One is the Debtors, and second is the Unbilled Amount. Unbilled Amount are those which are not due for raising the invoice because of the milestones which are not achieved till 31st of March. And that has increased to around INR 133 crore. That Unbilled Amount is what is making up the majority of the Receivable. Otherwise, if you look at the Receivable versus the turnover, the Receivable Ratio has improved as compared to the previous year. And even in the Debtors' part, we have further received some amount in the month of April and May. So, Receivables, I would say, are part of the normal trend and not to be alarmed about the increase, which is mainly because of the Unbilled Revenue.
Got it. So sir, next question is in terms of last quarter, we said that we expect INR 550 crore of execution in FY26. So do we have any changes, increase, or decrease on that front, sir?
I don't think we would have given any indication of future because we don't give the forecast. But we have achieved INR 418 crore this year as compared to INR 252 crore the previous year. So we have seen a growth. And I think what we indicated that we will continue to the growth path. Now, we don't give the forecast, so I would refrain from giving the targets for 2026.
Got it. Sir, last question would be in terms of Jal Jeevan Mission, there seems to be some reduction on government plans allocation side. So any color on that front, sir? How are you seeing things?
We are not seeing any effect on us. And also, the opportunities which we are having further, the Jal Jeevan Mission, the reduction what we are reading is in respect of reduction over the proposed allocation, which was supposed to be four times than the earlier year's allocation. So I don't think it's a cause of concern. Our opportunities are not getting diminished. In fact, we still have a lot of opportunities on that. And if we are able to secure everything, then also it will be hardly 7% to 8% of the Jal Jeevan Mission budget. So I don't think we should be worried about it.
Okay, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, I'm audible. Sir?
Yes, sir.
I have a question to have. Just first up, the current order book of around INR 1,200 crores—what is the execution timeline? I mean, by when do we need to execute this INR 1,200 crores of order?
These orders include some of the orders which are to be executed over a period of three years, four years. But on an average, the average execution would be between 18 to 24 months.
Between 18 to 24?
Between 18 to 20 months, yeah.
18 to 20 months. And how much orders would be three to four years orders out of it?
That will be not significant. It will be hardly INR 65 to 70 crores.
Oh, very small. I mean, the majority of orders would fall under this category of 18 to 20 months.
You are right.
Okay. Fair enough. And my second question is on margins. I mean, if I have to see a horizon of the next three to five years, I mean, given in the medium term, we'll keep growing, right, on a quarter-on-quarter and YOY basis which you mentioned. So how do you see margins? I mean, what traction or what aspiration we can have on the margin front? Because ideally, your cost will not increase at the same rate at which your revenue can increase, right? So some margin aspiration would be helpful. I mean, some kind of range would also be helpful.
We have basically said we don't want to give any future projections. What we said consistently over the last year is we do not see any headwinds, and we should be able to maintain and improve our margin profile as the quarters and quarters start unfolding. And so far, we have been able to continue on that track. So you can take the clues from the past, but we don't want to give the future-looking segment.
But we would like to maintain and improve our margins. That's what people want to say, right?
100%. 100%. Yes.
Okay. Fair enough. That's very helpful, sir. I mean, thank you very much all the way back.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Vinay Bathija from Chanakya Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a very good set of numbers, so my first question is regarding the UK FTA, and I know our company has good exposure to U.K., so can the management throw some light on it? Will it impact?
Sorry, sorry. Can you repeat the question?
Okay. So my first question is on the UK FTA that has just been signed yesterday between India and U.K., a three-way agreement. And yes, our company has some exposure to the U.K. So may I know how will it impact the organization?
Our exposure to U.K. today is very small. And this FTA, if I talk, it will help us positively. I don't think there is any negative.
Okay. Thank you. I will join on the queue if I have something.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Keshav Sureka from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. And congrats on the great set of numbers. So could you please provide some insight on the Unbilled Revenue? What is the expected timeline of that revenue to be realized?
About which revenue you're saying?
Unbilled Revenue.
Yeah. So see, Unbilled Revenue is made up of at least seven to eight major projects. Majority of them will be fructified before Q2 , Q3 . So, it will not be all at once. But there will be processes— [Crosstalk]
Can I repeat the question again?
Yes, yes.
Your answer is correct. But you need to add flavor to that. The fact that our company is growing, unbilled revenue of the current, whatever is in the book, will get billed. But there will be new projects. And they are milestones. Therefore, there will be new UBR. And it's a cycle which is going to continue.
Gee, that's correct.
I just want to highlight that portion because the misleading could be next quarter, you will come back and say, "Hey, you said UBR is going to get billed. Why is UBR still the same? Or a little increase? Or a little down?" Because the whole revenue will continue to grow. Just for the question. Sorry for that. Sorry for that.
Got it. And also, I noticed that there is a margin expansion in the Geospatial while the technology margins have been compressed this quarter. So this is a reversal from the previous quarter. So could you please walk through the factors which are driving the shift?
If I can take it?
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. No, see, observation is correct. It is only in respect of one of the two of the projects where there was one milestone which we achieved during this quarter where the percentage of the EBITDA margins was lesser. Otherwise, our focus is on the Technology Solutions which has a higher margin. So if you look at the annual numbers, I think you will get a better sense of it. On the overall project, the margins for the technology services are better than the Geospatial. And this is a quarter-on-quarter, project-on-project, milestone- basis revenue recognition.
So going forward, can we expect the same margins from the Geospatial sector?
So, margins, what we have achieved during this year, I think, as what Prashant also mentioned, our focus will remain to protect those margins and improve on ongoing basis. And we also have consciously, as we also mentioned in the previous investor call, our focus will be to address more of Technology Solutions which have slightly better margins than the Geospatial services.
Going forward, the split from Geospatial and technology, so where can we expect the majority of the revenue coming? The technology will be more or the Geospatial will be more?
I think, again, I answered. And if you see the year this year, the Technology Solutions have contributed 51% of the total turnover as compared to 24% of the total turnover last year. So focus is surely towards the Technology Solutions. However, it will be difficult to project percentage of revenue under each of the segment.
Perfect. Thanks. That's really it. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Aryan Oswal from Finterest Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Congratulations on the good set of numbers, sir.
Thank you.
So you mentioned in the previous question, you answered that you are focusing more on Technology Solutions. But if I'm not wrong, Technology Solutions have the whole of the revenue coming from domestic, right?
Yes, you are right.
But, sir, in the previous call, you also mentioned that you are focusing to improve the international revenue also. So, is there any increase in the percentage in international revenue? And if you're focusing more on the Technology Solutions, then are we expecting to not stay on that, or have we shifted our focus?
No, we are not shifting the focus. Sorry, this is Prashant here. We are not shifting the focus. What you said is correct. Today, Technology Solutions is largely India. But what we said also in earlier call that these are the solutions we will also take into the international market. So the focus on the international market remains. And still, we will increase the revenue portion of the Technology Solutions. That's what we had explained last time also.
Okay. Got it, sir. And sir, in our PPT, we have the revenue of Geospatial and Technology also. But is it possible for you to bifurcate the revenue into all the Geospatial part and the Water, Energy, Mobility, and AEC? What percentage of revenue each one is contributing?
We used to do that. We used to do that earlier in terms of segmentation. But because of the way we looked at it as a company going forward and building together, we thought this classification is better than going on individual utility because on individual utility, as we explained, the fluctuations will always remain there depending on what are the government priorities. And that always gives a misleading picture. Therefore, we said we will stay with this division.
Okay. Thank you, sir. And sir, one last question. Out of the INR 1,197 total order book, as you mentioned, both Geospatial and Technology are included in this number. So can you give the bifurcation of how much is Geospatial order book and how much is Technology Solutions order book?
Yeah. So out of INR 1,197 crore, the Technology Solutions order book is in the range of around INR 400 crores on Water. And so around INR 500 crores on the Technology Solutions and balances Geospatial and Engineering Services.
Okay. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question comes from Aman Soni from Nvest Analytics Advisory. Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm audible?
Yes, you are.
Sir, just a bookkeeping question. There has been a notable increase in our Intangible Assets line item in FY25, so could you please clarify the nature of these assets and whether we currently have the visibility on the tangible economic benefits expected to arise from them?
So if I can just take this.
Go ahead.
The Intangibles are in respect of. There's hardly, I mean, from I would say if you're looking at, it's INR 83 million. So it's INR 8.3 crore. But this is in respect of technology process which we have invented. We have applied for that for the IPR. And we are already taking the benefit of that technology innovation in our existing projects. So I think it's as per the guideline of the accounting standard, which we have capitalized, which is hardly the amount of expenditure which is eligible for the capitalization.
Understood, and sir, secondly, I remember in the past phone calls, we were having a target to hit around INR 1,000 CR. That's the vision we were having, so can you put some color? I'm not asking for the precise thing, but I'm asking for your internal vision or internal target. How do you see this? By when are we looking to be around that number, so can you give a color on that, sir?
Prashant, Ji? So you go right. Sorry, I didn't get the question correctly.
No, what is the target? I mean, the INR 1,000 crore target, when do we expect to achieve?
Look, we said we will not give future projections. If you extrapolate what is our past performance, I think you would agree that we should have hit that number in a couple of years. But we said we will not give any futuristic forward-looking statements. So therefore, that's a question which I don't want to answer.
That's what I'm trying to get. Earlier also, we were having a vision. So that vision is index, right? That's what I'm trying to understand.
Vision, yes. Forward-looking statement, no.
Understood, sir. And lastly, on the international order side, like you mentioned, we are going to take these Technology Solutions to the international market. So can you just give us the insights on what kind of developments are happening over there in the terms of the negotiations or any order that we are looking to get in that particular area or any kind of progress that can lead to at least a trigger point to start taking our Technology Solutions to the international market?
Yeah, a lot of things are happening. It will be premature to discuss all of them today. We have a team in progress. We signed one large contract, and we started small execution of that already. And we expect that pipeline as well as those contracts in terms of longer term to expand during the current year, which is FY26. So as you see the year unfold, you will see all those numbers coming through.
Understood, sir.
The multiple initiatives have been started.
Understood. Thank you very much, sir, that is from my side. All the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question comes from Midhun James from Eighth Wonder Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir, and thanks for a good set of numbers.
Thank you.
My first question is, we have heard the announcement of Mr. Surej being appointed as the CEO. Is he going to be the CEO for the entire group? And if so, is he going to be posted in the U.S., considering that almost 90% of our business is coming from India? So how does this pan out? Or is it a futuristic move, assuming that the future trajectory would be more outside? Can you give a little bit of color on that, please?
Sorry, I was on mute. You already answered your question. This is a futuristic move. The fact that we want to grow international revenue, we need a presence in those markets, and we need to show those leadership moments in those markets. So that's why we have hired Surej. He will be the CEO of the entire company, also the India business, even though Kaushik is going to be continuing there as a Managing Director for India Operations.
Okay, sir. Got it. And my second question would be regarding, so I think last phone call also, we alluded to the name change of CS Tech AI. So, the question is more regarding a flavor of what we have done on the futuristic businesses. We had aspirations for data center. We also had some metaverse plans. So can you just give some color on what are we doing currently on the futuristic businesses which can kind of justify the name change?
So as the name suggests, AI. We also said in the earlier calls we have a team built for using artificial intelligence and machine learning for the Geospatial. And I think Kaushik just alluded a little bit while answering earlier one of the questions. The development which we have, we are already using it for reducing effort and improving the margins. So the work is already at a stage where it is internally usable. And as we start developing that more and more, at some point of time, we will probably also start counting separate segmentation of revenue coming out of AI. But right now, that's a little bit premature. The work is already happening there. That's what we can confirm.
Okay, okay, sir, and my last question would be that this is actually a part of the continuation of a previous participant question. So I am still a little bit confused on the bifurcation of Technology and Geospatial. So for example, we said that the Water River Linking Project comes under Technology, if I'm assuming it right, whereas the Maharashtra Water Sanitation IoT Project comes under Geospatial. So how do we do this bifurcation? And it would kind of give better clarity for us investors if we can sort of bifurcate it at the project level or even at a vertical level.
Okay. So I think we tried to explain this in our last calls also. We know it's a little bit confusing until we, as a whole community and all the stakeholders, get used to it. We started it last year. So at the cost of repetition, let me just reiterate what we said. The Technology and Geospatial is not divided at a project level. It cannot be. Each project will have a portion of a technology element and a portion of a Geospatial element. Our intent is to reduce Geospatial content because it's a low-margin business and increase technology portion because it's a high-margin business. But when we pick up a project, there is always going to be a mix of this.
That's where it becomes difficult to say, "These are the two projects which will be in Geospatial, or these are the two projects in Technology." Now, for example, one of the projects which we did during the last Q3, Q4 is DPMS ( Digital Project Management System). If there are projects like that, we can say it's 100% in the Technology segment. But those will be few. Most of the projects, most of the large projects will be a mix of Geospatial and Technology combination.
Okay, got it. So Mandan, how do we kind of bifurcate Geospatial and Technology within that project? What are the rules that you follow? Or I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive, but—
No, no, no. No, no, your question is no, no, your question is absolutely correct. So let me take an example and explain it. So right now, we are doing River Linking Project. There are multiple elements in this. So out of that survey, which we are doing right now, aerial LiDAR survey, will be a Geospatial part. But the processing of that using artificial intelligence and then using technology to define the parameters for all of those detailing of the project will be a part of Technology side of the project. So take the same project, two different work elements. One will fall in Geospatial, another one will fall in Technology. And that's why I said it's difficult to link a project name to a segmentation.
Okay, got it. It is clear. Yeah.
Thank you.
Okay, okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The last question for the day comes from Ashish Soni from Family Office. Please go ahead.
Sure. Sir, some light on data center opportunity. I think you said you will come back in a quarter or two. So what's the progress there?
No, I think last meeting we said in terms of data center, we are at least right now putting those plans on the back burner. If we decide to move forward, we will definitely come back and inform. Right now, we are planning to put them on back burner because there are more orders and more business being pursued with the existing segments, so we don't believe that management needs to defocus right now in the direction of data centers.
Okay, sir. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you all for participating in this earnings conference call and, I think, taking a lot of interest in our company. I hope we have been able to answer your questions satisfactorily. If you still have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our IR manager, which is a Valorem Advisors, and we will be happy to answer them. And thanks even to Ventura Capital who have helped us, Ventura Securities who have helped us to host this session. Thank you all.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Ventura Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.