Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Infibeam Avenues Limited Q1 FY 2024 conference call hosted by Go India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajat Gupta from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Calvin. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Infibeam Avenues Limited earnings call, Q1 FY 2024 results. We have on the call with us today Mr. Vishal Mehta, Managing Director, Mr. Vishwas Patel, Executive Director, Mr. Sunil Bhagat, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Purvesh Parekh, Head, Investor Relations. Also joining us on the call today is Mr. B. Ravi, who is advising Infibeam on corporate and financial strategy as an independent consultant. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and that is for viewing in conjunction with the other company places. I now request the Mr. Vishal Mehta to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, welcome to Infibeam Avenues first quarter 2024 earnings call. I'm very excited to present the outstanding quarterly performances of our business. I'd like to share that some of the achievements have been cemented by our position as a trailblazer in the digital payments industry. Last quarter, we achieved the highest ever gross in net revenues. Gross revenue was INR 742 crore, which has been up 77% year-over-year, while the quarterly net revenue is about INR 99 crore. The adjusted mark-to-market loss, which we have recorded in other expenses, if you remove the consolidated, adjusted EBITDA was INR 56 crore, up 31% year-over-year, while adjusted profit after tax was INR 32 crore, up 30% year-over-year. Our profit-driven revenue business strategy is showing successful results, we should be very confident of being able to create better value for our shareholders going forward.
You know, I'm also very confident about achieving this year's guidance. We accomplished the guidance in our presentation in the slide 8 of the presentation in our press release. We think that this is achievable, we should be able to set the path for our next level of growth as we instill confidence in the shareholders. We expect revenues to come in between INR 3,000-INR 3,300 crore, which is the gross revenue, net revenue for the year at about INR 450-INR 415 crore. Gross revenue will be about 50%-70% year-over-year growth. The net revenue will see anywhere between 25%-27% year-over-year growth.
The EBITDA that we expect for this year will be between INR 230 crore-INR 235 crore, which will see an increase of around 30% year-over-year. EBITDA between INR 130 crore-INR 150 crore, which is about 40%-60% year-over-year increase. Over the past few quarters, our company has experienced a unprecedented growth in our payments business. Our relentless pursuit of excellence and innovation has allowed us to capitalize on the ever-expanding digital landscape and revolutionizing the way merchants conduct business transactions. One of the key highlights of our performance has been substantial increase in merchant adoption for our digital payment gateway, CCAvenue. Yet again, this quarter, we added 9,500 merchants on a daily average basis, and now we have 10 million merchants.
We've seen a surge of demand for our TapPay solution that we launched about 2 quarters ago. This serves as a testament for our trust and confidence that our solution is optimized for the experience that merchants request. Our payment gateway, as well as our brand, is a gold standard in the payment gateway business. At Infibeam Avenues, corporate governance lies at the heart of our business conduct. We firmly believe and adhere to the principle of transparency, accountability, and they're essential pillars for our long-term success and trust. Our commitment to strong corporate governance permeates every aspect of our business, fostering a culture of trust and reliability that resonates with all our clients and stakeholders. We make key leadership appointments as we evolve our business. Vijay Subramanian, who's been with the company, he's been appointed as the...
in the role of CEO for our platform business. Vijay comes with a degree from IIT Madras, and he's worked at Amazon after doing his master's in Urbana-Champaign. He's worked on several of the key projects at Amazon prior to joining Infibeam. He will now lead the entire platform business for our company in taking it to the next phase. Vishwas Patel , who was the Executive Director, he will join the role as a Joint Managing Director and will focus on improving and deepening our payment experiences both in India and international. In international markets, we've already announced that we've launched and started our business operations in many other countries, including UAE, Australia, US, as well as some GCC markets like Saudi Arabia. I will be deeply focused on building, you know, which we've announced recently called the AI Fintech Hub.
This AI Fintech Hub is a horizontal layer on top of our existing businesses, which is including both platforms and payments. Change is always around the corner, and sometimes you proactively invite it, and sometimes it comes knocking. When we look at the potential of what artificial intelligence and machine learning can accomplish, we think that this is the right time to embrace it. It's a bold bet, but it's one worth taking. The companies that will do well in the long term and succeed are the ones that are able to create intelligence within their systems and processes and focus on productivity as well as other aspects of what we can accomplish for our clients.
I'll be serving as the Chairman and Managing Director of Infibeam Avenues, Vijay, as well as Vishwas, will be taking over some of the functions that enable us to grow our core platform as well as payment business. The world is experiencing unprecedented digitalization across various sectors, revolutionizing the way we transact, the way we work, the way we live. Digital transformation has also brought in an alarming increase in cyber fraud, security breaches, as well as posing significant challenges to both individuals, businesses, and governments worldwide. In this era, artificial intelligence will emerge as a very powerful ally in combating such fraud, managing risk, as well as ensuring secure authentication processes.
Infibeam will establish India's first artificial intelligence hub, headquartered in GIFT City . We will initially focus on fintech and financial sectors, building solutions in these 3 areas, which we acronym call FAR, which is fraud detection, authentication, and risk. To bolster our play, Infibeam will also be hiring some well-known industry experts to build the business vertical under our leadership. This will create more value for Infibeam going forward. We are also doing some structural changes to sharpen our focus on the core business, which is payments and enterprise software. We're listening of a holding on subsidiary, Odigma Consultancy Solutions , which is into online digital marketing, and it's run by professionals. The CEO of the company is Matthew. He's graduated from IIM Bangalore. He's been with us for several years, and they have certain marquee clients with them.
They're profitable, and they will also be running our registry business called ZNICTO While ZNICTO earlier was in the standalone Infibeam Avenues financials, that particular business will be transferred to Odigma Consultancy Solutions , as we believe it is complementary to them in offering domain infrastructure, domain services, along with marketing solutions. Infibeam Avenues will also increase its stake in Fable Fintech. If you recollect, Infibeam Avenues owns 30% of this business. It goes into remittances to and from India, primarily focused on bank-grade software, bringing remittances from different countries into India. When somebody had to send small amounts of money from international to India, they would not be able to afford a $25 SWIFT. Rather than using alternative channels, Fable Company provides bank-grade software so that individuals can send even small amounts, like $50 and $100 into India by paying a very small fee.
The technology enables it to actually make it extremely competitive and practice. While we were looking at this business and while we're looking at payments and globalization of payments, we'll be adding an additional 25%, increasing our stake in the company to 41%. We'll also be subscribing into compulsory conversion into ventures of INR 1.2 crore in this company, along with other investors. This particular company has a marquee list of investors, including ICICI Bank, Paytm, and many others. What we plan to do is to increase our holding and make it an associate company of ours, whereby Infibeam Avenues will own 41% of the company. Overall, our aim is to seize the maximum opportunity in growing digitization era that is complementary to our business and AI. I will now ask Vishwas to give you updates on our payment business.
Vishwas, over to you.
Thank you, Vishal. Over the past months, we have worked relentlessly to enhance our technology and strengthen our operating metrics. I am thrilled to share the results of our efforts with all of you. Our mission has always been to revolutionize the way transactions are conducted, and I'm proud to say that we have delivered on that promise. We have developed state-of-the-art infrastructure that ensures security, scalability, and lightweight class transaction processing. Our upgraded technology stack will not only bolster our offerings but will also provide a seamless and a delightful experience to both the merchants and the consumers. Our CCAvenue TapPay solution, which is a revolutionary mobile application, is a step in this direction, which holds a lot of promise to change the way payments are done in our country and beyond.
It offers 200+ payment options to merchants in a single integration, which is by far the highest number of payment options in the offline mode in India. Since we started rolling out, we have achieved 150,000 downloads in 7-8 months of FY 2023, 50,000 higher than we had in previous years. This has doubled to now over 300,000 by the end of Q1 FY 2024. We are seeing an accelerated demand from the merchants. Our aim is to reach the hinterlands of India, offering our products at soft cost. These are very sophisticated AI-based payment solution that's very simple to use, and it's relatively cheaper than the competition and it's portable. Internationally, UAE continues to grow as expected and continues to maintain a stable double-digit net take rate.
In Saudi Arabia, we should receive our data localization compliance certificate in a month to be able to start rolling out digital payments. In bill payments through BBPS, our volume-based payment share has improved by 80 basis points to 11.1% in Q1, from 10.3% in Q4. In Q1, which is typically a seasonally weak quarter during the year, the net take rate was around 8.2 basis points. It is up 16% year-on-year, but was slightly down compared to 9 basis points in Q4, due to the change in business and payment mix. The increase in transaction from certain low MDR industries and a spike in less credit card transactions that have slightly lowered the take rate compared to the debit options, resulted in net take rate going down during the quarter.
We are hopeful that Q2 onwards, with the onset of activities and later followed by the travel season, the take rate will improve and move towards our guided double-digit figures by the end of the year. I'll now hand over the call to Sunil to give you the financial updates. Sunilji, all yours.
Thank you, Vishal, sir. Our dedication to prudent financial management, strategic investments, and operational excellence has yielded results that are a testament to our collective effort. Financially, we have achieved impressive growth, driven by a steadfast focus on efficiency and innovation. Our revenue has surged by 77% year-on-year to INR 102.742 crore, driven by higher contribution from credit card payment. Credit card, like the previous quarter, contributes more than 50% to overall payments processed in India. This number for us is above 80% in the UAE market. The growth in revenue is complemented by an equally robust increase in profitability, with a rise of 31% in EBITDA and 30% in PAT, adjusted for MTM gain or loss, which is a notional value and not part of the operations, strictly speaking.
Professionally, the number of merchants have touched 10 million, which is a great future potential for us to cross-sell through lending, that is Express Settlements and other modes that we have. Our net take rate for the quarter was 3.4 basis points, up 16% year-on-year. We continue to work towards taking our net rate, take to double digits. We have highlighted on slide number nine, short-to-medium-term key focus areas on how we are planning to take it to double digits. As we speak, we are already working with banking partners and with on pricing, and we are seeing positive outcome for some of this initiatives already. International expansion is on track. We'll share more details once we go live over the next few months. UAE continues to be in double digits net take rate zone-wise.
With the launch of TapPay in UAE, we'll be able to gather higher market share in the region. We'll also launch it in Saudi Arabia and other GCC markets. Offline CCAvenue TapPay as a strategy will start bearing fruits for us over the next 12 to 18 months. We have a focused strategy to scale our international business. As we look to the future, we remain committed to our vision of sustainable growth, innovation, and unwavering financial integrity. Our accomplishments this quarter, coupled with our guidance for the year, clear the way for an even brighter journey ahead, one in which we will continue to create value for all our stakeholders. With this, I will now hand over the call to the operator to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Jonathan Fernandes from . Please go ahead.
Hi, just a few questions. Other than that, most of the new age internet companies are currently, like, diversifying into lending. Any difference that there's more money to be made in lending or is there something else? Like, what would be your take on this? Secondly is, if you could throw some more light on the TapPay expansion plan, like how many downloads are you seeing? What are the performance goals? You know, how do you plan to compete with, you know, the established players in the offline space, whether it's the cost players or the new age UPI companies, which you are. How do you plan to compete with them because they're more prevalent in the offline space, right?
Sure. You know, I can answer the second question first, and then I'll come to the first one. This is Vishal Mehta. As far as TapPay is concerned, we think that there's a big potential for TapPay to get into the services business, not just products.
... whether you are a small-time consultant or whether it is being able to provide some services. Typically these merchants don't have a point-of-sale solution. To be able to offer solutioning not just to merchants, but also to service providers, is a big opportunity that we believe is in front of us. While we've not segmented the numbers and we've not provided numbers in terms of how TapPay will grow, one thing I can tell you is that we expect that we will hit 1 million merchants this year itself. That's almost 10% of the population of merchants that we have today. If you're at a 10 million number, I think we should at least have 10% of our merchants on TapPay.
That's the internal metrics that we are working on. The take rates for these merchants are better than what we see in the online trend. You know, directionally, we have said that we want to go to two-digit take rates. While we are at 8.4 basis points, we'd like to get the take rate to go into double digits. You know, a combination of international expansion TapPay and be able to consist of certain verticals, which are high yield, will allow us to get there. You know, I think that is in a nutshell, what, what we can share at the moment. When we get...
You know, but one thing I can tell you is that TapPay is not meaningful at this moment in our overall structure, that we can segment out and be able to talk about specifically. 10% of the population is not a small number, we believe, in one year. We think that, you know, it's a very important one. It's an acquisition we've made. You know, we, we feel more confident about the success of this acquisition going forward, given that we've not just opened up in India, but also in international locations. Vishwas just mentioned that in UAE also we'll open up TapPay, we should be able to increase our merchant count multifold there and that factor in countries because the, because the base there is smaller compared to what we have in India. This is as far as TapPay is concerned.
You know, can you remind me what was the first question you were asking me there? I was unable to follow the first question please.
Yeah. The first question was mainly about, you know, most of the companies are diversifying into lending. I just want to know, like, what would be your take there? Is it because there is more money to be made in lending, or is there some other component here, how do you see?
Lending, if you look at some of the global peers, you will find that the revenue streams come from payments, lending, and advertising, for some of the large internet companies. So I think that teaches that, you know, these three verticals are potentially, you know, ones that, that can provide profits to companies and, and that to uncertain . What we believe in is that if you're not, if you're in the technology business and if you're not at scale, then you're not doing anything important. So in, in whatever we are doing, you know, whether you talk about payments, where we've scaled up, or whether we think about enterprise software that manages scale, you know, I think that becomes the, the core mantra of ours, that, you know, what do we need to do?
We need to actually scale up. As far as lending as an opportunity is concerned, I think, you know, it will follow. I think in this you would have noticed that there are a lot of regulations that have changed around lending in the past few quarters. You know, compliance to the, those regulations become very critically important. That is one. Second, is that we think, you know, stage 2 processing, lending through, you know, having merchants sign up for payment differently and be able to offer them, you know, lending solutions become an extremely attractive proposition.
I think that, you know, we already have discussed in the past what we're doing in terms of instant settlement or express payment, whereby the merchant can receive payments immediately as opposed to waiting for two days or five days settlement period. We think the cost of collection and lending really is a collection and not about giving. We think that as long as you're able to optimize your processes in such a way that you can have visibility and transparency and have, you know, the cost of collection go to or tend to, and I wouldn't say practically zero, but practically zero, I think that in such cases it becomes a very attractive proposition, and Indian market is right for it.
So we think that lending is a very important facet of what we'll end up doing. We think that, you know, as we build up, you'll hear more about what the company will end up doing. When we talk about artificial intelligence and a few things that allow us and enable us to access certain models and be able to, to deliver on performances, those are decision-making models. When we think about and when we discuss about our AI hub opportunities of, you know, fraud, authentication, and risk, these are these models. If we are able to build out such models that potentially allow us to, to be able to externalize them and, and offer it to others, I think that becomes an attractive proposition. One, first we will try on ourselves before we do and give, provide to others.
We think expensive lending is a big opportunity right now for us, and with the cash reserves that we have, we'll double down on that this year.
All right. Last question. This is the last question. I just wanted to know what are your thoughts on how do you see the business evolving over the next three to five years from that point to now?
See, I'll tell you, I think that, you know, we, we've discussed that, that, you know, we want to, you know, get to a point where we get to $100 billion in processing, you know, in the next couple of years. We think that, you know, the potential does exist. We want to get to a double-digit take stage. It will be a combination of, you know, domestic and international growth. International is less than 10% of our overall, single-digit percentage. We'd like to allow it to grow to a 30% number.
You know, while India also grows and, you know, India being the beachhead, and we'll be able to, while we build out all the solution in India, fortunately, payments India is far more evolved than other countries. That gives us an edge and an advantage. We think that we'll continue building out the business in that front. We are, you know, getting into, you know, the entire, you know, discussion and conversation around artificial intelligence. I think that, you know, that becomes a very critical factor for any company. You know, I'm very optimistic about it, and, and the way we see the response and the things that are evolving around us.
I, I think, you know, while we look at, you know, different aspects of Artificial Intelligence, the ones that we focus on are, you know, the ones that go horizontally between commerce and payments. One being, you know, data models, because a lot of companies have data, but it's not in a, in a perfect shape where you can model on top of it. Second is actually the models themselves and being able to, to test and tune them. Then the third thing are the precision models, the ones that allow you to actually make decisions. Those are the three fronts. I think, you know, any problem that you'll see in AI, you typically have these three, three areas that, that one has to work on. We are very solutions-focused on this, and within that solutions, we build our products.
All right, thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, to ask a question, you may press star 1 on your touchtone telephone. The next question comes on the line of Anuj Narula from uncertain. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much for taking my question. I have 3 questions. This foray into Artificial Intelligence that we have announced with our Q1 results, can you give us more details on what exactly are we planning here? Even though this is a bit too early, but given that AI seems to be everywhere now, how big are we planning to take this business going forward? This is my first question, and another one is, I just wanted to have a bit more understanding about your bill payment. Can you share some more statistics in terms of where we are, our performance, and how we plan to grow in this business? Who will be our major competitors in this business segment? Lastly, just one more thing. Any plans to get into B2C business in the future?
I think the AI question, and I'll have Vishwa take the payments question that you have. See, I mean, I know that a lot of people have heard about artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies with very, very high promise. It's been around for decades. It's only in the last five, 10 years that you would have seen that companies have pervasively started utilizing it. The shift in that has been, you know, I mean, because of access to such high volumes of compute capacity, which is available at such a low price, and, you know, extensively people being available to be able to go and process and, you know, get some practice frameworks out.
I think, you know, these, you know, whether you talk about large learning models or transformative areas around the planet, I think a lot of innovation happened in the past at least few years that we've seen. We think that, you know, we are going to focus on solutions, you know, which are going to help both of our platform as well as payments business. We think of AI as a horizontal layer which will enable it. To give you an example, you know, while Infibeam Avenues has a lot of data, but the first place where one has to maybe start thinking about this is, that is this data in a format where you can run algos on top of it? This is not just pure analytics, but you, you have the capacity to create your own data lakes.
Is it in a format, in a framework, which you can actually run, you know, whatever neural nets and algorithms and deep learning that you want to, to conduct on top of it. I think every company, because giving you the amount of data, because the data is not in the format which company can utilize. Short of putting it in Excel or putting it in some small DB, I don't think that they are in a capacity where you can utilize it into models and incorporate it. I think a horizontal layer where you're able to go and extract this data and put in a format where you can run models, is one area of solutioning that the company will focus on, starting with its own data. That's one. The second area that we will focus on is the modeling part.
A lot of data exists with companies, but A lot of companies, we realize, don't know what to do with it. You know, how do you build out such models? How do you tune such models? Is the second area that we can participate on solutioning with. These are not mutually exclusive. They could be either/or, but they're not mutually exclusive. The third part in organizational structure for this is an ability to be able to drive decisions. Once you reach a certain, you know, competency with these models, are the models able to help you make decisions? When you, when you think about it, I mean, these are the three areas that we think will be, will be important for the company.
We will be partnering with commercial as well as government utilization for such things, and in the next few weeks, we will be sharing more information about who we will be working with. We don't think that this is, you know, just a India-specific project and program for us. We will utilize the skill sets and the framework on our own, you know, in our own businesses.... and we will look at providing solutioning to other companies. What we are not doing is building out a product that everybody will utilize from day one. So I think as we build up, we expect that it will be integrated, and then within that solutioning, we'll build out products, which is an approach that we've taken as we build out this framework.
We will be adding more data scientists onto our, in our business and onto our payroll. We think that, you know, with the, the promise that AI, you know, leaves and, and it. We think it's completely transformative. I'll leave that bit for a future conversation, maybe with all of you. What, what we will do is, like I said, you know, I'll, I'll be leading that program and, and, you know, maybe that's all I can tell you at this moment. Hopefully, that gives you some idea in terms of how we think of this business. You know, as far as you know, Go Payments, Vishwas, you want to take that over?
Yes, Vishal. Vishwas here. Our whole bill payment strategy, which is distinct from the payment strategy that we have, right? It is run through our BillAvenue solution, and our majority owns a subsidiary company, Go Payments thing. BBPS BillAvenue, you know, is an interoperable online payment platform for Indian citizens. We have received now a perpetual license, a perpetual license from the Reserve Bank of India, to operate as a direct bill payment operating unit for both consumers and billers on both sides. Today, as we stand, some of the biggest billers that are there, be it Indian Oil, HP, Rail, IRCTC
Over the billers that we have on board with BBPS platform, almost 87% of all billers have been onboarded by us on the BBPS platform. On the other side, when you see the agent network that we have across our AIs, more than a million touchpoints are there across 1,300+ cities and towns across India. These are the small shops, which are, you know, registration for billbook and book and different things. More than a million touchpoints are there across the country. If you see the volumes, continuous rise, right? If you see FY 2023, we did around INR 15,800 crore of almost processing almost 11.8 crore transactions of bill payments.
This quarter, if you, this three months, we have done now INR 4,800 crore alone in three months and process over 3.4 crore bills. The growth volumes and, this thing is continuously growing. Under this thing, as we have also our own AI, that is GoPayments. They're alone by giving a variety of other services. In FY 2023, we already did INR 12,450 crore through our AI subsidiary. This quarter alone is another INR 3,432 crore of volumes processed through the GoPayments thing. The whole strategy of driving this ecosystem of the bill payments, with direct connects, as well as sitting on the billers on the other form, is going great. We are among the top players in this industry.
Who's the next question? Hello.
Can I ask whether you would like to go to B2C in future?
B2C in future? Right now, no, there is no strategy. We always played on the B2B principles, direct to merchants, direct to banks, our technology, including the BillAvenue solution and the CCAvenue solution, is used by a variety of the banks, and we provide the tech. The whole idea has always been B2B. The reason we don't go B2C is because of the high costs, in consumer acquisition and the kind of solutions that are there, BNPL and others, those are exciters at the moment and consumers. We'll focus on lending and other things, like even our new app that Vishal just told about, right? That whole app is what is different from what a Google Pay or a PhonePe is offering in the market. It is just a QR code. It is just a UPI option.
What we are offering is that you can just download an app and you can start accepting cards on your own phone. It's just. There is also static QR, where you can just show the QR and UPI payment system will come in. There is dynamic QR. There is link-based connections to the same app. It's an omni-channel, world's most advanced omni-channel app, where even a shop in any, any hinterland in India, can just download the app, just like he's downloading a YouTube app or any other app, and start accepting payments. It is not just restricted to a UPI payments. Here it is his own phone, so he's not spending anything extra in buying a soundbox and paying monthly rentals on that soundbox, which is differentiated from the others in the market.
The kind of certification that we have been being able to take Pin-On-Glass, which is like among the first in India, definitely, but also among the first in Asia Pacific, where even a transaction amount of about INR 10,000, maybe even an INR 200,000 card is available, can be taken on the phone itself. It's very disruptive, different from the existing guys who are deploying hardware, who are deploying soundboxes and others. Ours is a simple app-based, and it will transform, and the results- will come and see. As you said, we are among the only few where we are just not deploying a QR, but we are giving them not only a QR, but accepting the just through our mobile app, the entire credit cards, debit cards, and other things. That's the differentiation.
Got it. Thank you. That's a clear question.
Yeah.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Deepesh Sancheti from Manya Finance. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible? Hello?
Yes, sir, you are audible. Go ahead.
Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to understand, what is the role of Mr. Malav Mehta in the new company, which will be payments? What will be his holding, I mean, his holding actually, at least 1.29%. What is his indirect holding in uncertain ? Will there be any selling seen from him?
Yeah, there's no role per se. You know, which is your first question. You know, there's no new company that we are establishing. It's a business vertical that we're setting up now, you know, as an AI hub within the company. You know, that company is, I mean, as, as far as the initial core focus is concerned, we're just keep on building up, you know, both in terms of, you know, the payments business as well as the platforms business. To answer your question, I don't think there's any role, and neither it's a separate company. It's within the listed company itself, which we are building out the AI hub as a vertical headquartered in your city.
We do have plans to expand the hub across multiple cities in India, while the headquarters will be in city. We will expand across other larger cities within the country as well. As, you know, the holding is concerned, it's listed. Yeah, you're right, 1.29%. You know, the other group companies, you know, where you are talking about that, they hold, you know, including the listed company, we continue to be having independent directors in our own setups, whereby he's not involved with those companies.
So no holding in uncertain ?
No. No holding.
Okay. Okay, do you see any selling from him, I mean, after this exit?
I think it's, I mean, it'd be too hard to say because everyone's have their own decisions to make. You know, I think that, you know, as and when required by the regulatory authorities, we will be announcing whatever is out there. I can't be able to comment on that at this time.
Okay. My second question is regarding the AI-enabled section. Are we looking at setting up our own, I mean, team, or are we looking at any acquisitions in this new category? There are many companies in the space also available. Are we looking-
Our internal, internal, our internal bias is to build and not to buy. In other words, we will be having an internal team, you know, of data scientists who will become part of us to build out. You know, we're continually evaluating opportunities as they come our way. In other words, while we are not averse to, you know, looking at, you know, an acquisition, but our internal bias is still to, to build and not to buy.
Okay. Just a last question regarding the TapPay. Very exciting to listen to you about TapPay. That, you know, every phone can become a POS, if I understood it from your explanation of the last question. How do, I mean, how do you download this? Is there any link or something? Secondly, like, is my understanding right, that every phone will become POS, and you can accept payment from that? Effectively, you know, for 140 crore people, there will be lot more POS without any actually creating hardware for that.
Yes, Vishwas here. The app is available, CCAvenue For Business on the Google Play Store. You can download it from there. All the merchants and everybody, it's there on our CCAvenue website also, link is provided. India is an Android market. Any Android version nine and above can accept it, and the phone should have an NFC. Every smartphone, I think above INR 3,500, is already having an NFC chip. Right? That is all the two requirement that is there, Android phone with NFC, which almost every phone has. Now, every smartphone of INR 3,500-4,000 and above has it. Android version nine a nd above which can accept it. Just go on CCAvenue.
Even the sign up and online onboarding is also through the app itself.
Okay. I mean, my, it, it effectively becomes a POS, right?
It becomes. Your phone becomes a POS, because that's where the whole thing is to align with the Prime Minister's vision of, you know, Har Dukandar Digital . It's an ability to pay is what we have been focusing till now. All the, all the guys say, just be able to pay, go out with your house without cash. Now we are changing the whole 360 degrees, and now we are seeing the ability to collect.
Anybody and everybody, be it even a co-creator registration, after doing his job, we can just collect it, or a tuition teacher at the student's home can collect the payment by just taking out a phone. The payment options are not just UPI scanning and doing it. It is also credit cards, debit cards. The credit card volumes are growing INR 150,000 crore and above per month. Volumes are growing. Debit cards and even different wallets that are there in the market can be accepted through it.
Okay. Can you explain what will be the revenue model for this? I mean, how will be...
The same CCI revenue model. The same CCI revenue model. We earn on every transaction. That's what we discussed in the first part of the call. That's where it does. In the offline world, the rates are little higher. The margins are in double-digit rates.
Great. Great. All the very best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Rima Shah from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. I'm curious to know what's happening to the Gen 2.0 platform. I mean, are you in the process of building it through, or, you know, still some time away?
Yeah. I'll give you some background. We've announced that as well in one of our public announcements. Gen 2.0 is a completely new platform. It has no relations with the current existing platform. There is an RFP which was floated by the government of India, whereby, you know, there is a definition called MSP, which is a main service provider, and they would want to have something from scratch. The timeline for that is about 18 months to deploy. You know, within that timeframe, you also would need to migrate the old platform data and many others to the new platform. The current contract, which we have, is up to December 2023, and there is an option to extend that contract. Even in the existing contract, Infibeam Avenues is not the MSP.
We provide the core technology infrastructure for the marketplace. You know, in the past as well, we've announced that we will be working with companies, whether it's a current MSP or whoever is the new MSP, in this case, TCS, to be able to go and offer our core solutioning frameworks. You know, other than that, I don't have too much to share. But we, we expect that we should hear, you know, something in the next two-four weeks. You know, that is regarding, you know, the extension of the existing contract and how and when we would participate in terms of this out of a new program. As we have available information, we'll share it with you.
The processing volume of the INR 53,000 crore that we've done in this quarter, we earn some margins on that?
That's correct.
Okay. that kind of, if everything goes well and there is a process, that kind of can continue then?
That's correct.
Okay. The other question that I had was on this entire go, what you call it, Go Payments. The transaction value of INR 3,400 crore, what does it mean? It means all these services together, which you highlighted on the slide, or which of it?
This was here, it includes all the services provided by Go Payments to the agent, to the directly to the consumers. That's the services they offer to the agents who who further give on all these services like money transfer, recharges, insurance, cash collections, BBPS bill payments, other enabled payment systems, and all that stuff. The total volume done through that processing to those agent networks last year was INR 12,430 crore, and this quarter it has in 9 days alone, it's around INR 3,430 crore.
This has higher tickets or what?
There are a variety of services, some are lakh, some are some pages and other things. At the individual this unit level, it has already gone into profitability from this month onwards.
Okay. Fine. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Ashish from Infinity Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Just a couple of questions from my side. One is, there's a substantial cash in the balance sheet. What are the thought process in terms of prioritization going forward on that?
Sure. Basically, we talked earlier about Express Settlement. Express Settlement is such that rather than doing a settlement with a merchant on T+2 or T+5 days, we do the same-day settlement. When you pay a merchant, generally it takes a settlement time, so we would remit the amounts into the merchant account. Instead, we would do it the exact same day. For that, we have extra bits technically not lending, but it's essentially part of our credit contracting structure, whereby we are able to do same-day settlement. What it does is it changes the cash flow of the merchants significantly.
To that, by design, our cost of collection practically is in there because the money is coming into our escrow, and then at the end, we would ensure that, you know, we would submit to the bank and pay the amounts. You know, for that we create our own balance sheet. Rather than, rather than taking any loans, we will put our own balance sheet into it because we've done more than integral-wise, more than $1 billion last year of Express Settlements, zero NPA. Now that we can do $1 billion, we think that we can go to $10 billion. You know, rather than doing and scaling it up without actually understanding the dynamics, we took an appropriately conservative approach. That's one place that, you know, we'd be positioning.
The second area that we'll focus on is international growth. We think that international can potentially become 30% or more of our overall and, you know, our revenues. We think that, you know, somewhat raising capital as well as investing capital into the international markets. In each of the markets, there will be different dynamics, but we think that that becomes a potential opportunity for us to grow. Third area that we'll be looking at investing into, and we've already announced that is, you know, Artificial Intelligence, the AI framework that we've built up. That is more of a solutioning framework, not a product framework. We think that as we build up, we'll continue, you know, receiving revenues as well, while we're building through and eventually it will transform into a product.
This is solving, solving large problems either for the government or commercial use and potentially building out, you know, products that would help the industry build up further. These are the three areas that we're investing capital in.
In terms of the adjusted PAT, what are the NTM? Why did you have an NTM loss this quarter? Is it because of business?
No, the NTM loss is basically because of the investments that we've made in companies. It's a natural loss.
This, the mediation loss, is that the loss?
No, it's, the IT systems.
Okay. That is the...
It's the software license of the company that does a substantial portion to us.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, thanks a lot. Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Biju Nair, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Sir, I would like to know when, when we should have NASDAQ listing, since the share price is not moving. It's around 14. We know that we don't have any control on the market. What company is doing to create value for shareholders? What is the plan to NASDAQ listing? Thank you. There was a 40 micro cap that were working.
Yeah. Currently, I mean, the company has no plans to list in NASDAQ. That much I can tell you. You know, international opportunities that we have, that's why we own 100% subsidiary in other countries, one of them in UAE. UAE processes AED 10 billion right now on an annualized basis across 7,000 odd clients. If you go to the top of Burj Khalifa, you go to the mall, potential to check the max, probably many of us. Hopefully, some of you may have talked to your friends and family in UAE. They would have used CCAvenue.ae. With Stack, from a few thousand merchants, we go to tens of thousands of merchants. Unlike India, UAE is not a very large geography.
The article that you referred to is where, you know, there are opportunities to raise capital in each region, and that is the reference that you may be alluding to. Actually, we don't have anything more to add other than the fact that we could be raising capital. As and when we hear from, you know, our subsidiary, we'll be able to announce it to you as well.
Sir, we are planning anything for protection, like bonus issue and create value for shareholders?
Sir, we've given dividends, full year dividends for last year. We will continue evaluating, you know, and, and having our board advise us in terms of, you know, what we should be doing this year. We've given guidances for this year. We think we are very, we're very confident about achieving the numbers that we stated in our guidance. You know, first quarter being a soft quarter, you know, we still had, you know, upwards of 30% growth in terms of gross revenues. You know, we've announced some kind of structuring where we are, we're listing one of our subsidiary companies into the market and giving shares of that subsidiary company to our shareholders, which is Odigma, which is the one that we announced recently.
You know, as and when the opportunity is right and the businesses have scaled up and matured, and then they have an opportunity to grow, we will continue doing this.
Will it be a separate listing?
Yeah, there will be separate listing.
Okay. When it will happen, sir? This year end or?
It's pending, of course, regulatory approvals, but we think it should be this financial or fiscal. We can, I mean, of course, it has to go through the process.
This year, we can think of a bonus issue.
While I will not be able to comment specifically on your, on your comment, what I can tell you is that we, as soon as Odigma is listed, our shareholders will be receiving shares of that company.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Share is not moving too much.
Yeah. No, like I said, we've also announced our AGM date.
Okay. Okay.
Cut off for dividend as well, along with that.
Okay. Okay, fair. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Due to time constraints, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you all for attending our first quarter conference call, and we look forward to keeping in touch and, you know, providing you with the latest updates to the company, and look forward to having you again back in our subsequent calls. Thanks, all.