Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Infibeam Avenues Limited Q4 and FY 2025 conference call hosted by Go India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajat Gupta from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thank you, Rutika. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Infibeam Avenues Limited earnings call to discuss the Q4 and FY 2025 results. We have on the call with us today Mr. Vishal Mehta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Vishwas Patel, Joint Managing Director; and Mr. Sunil Bhagat, Chief Financial Officer. Also joining us on the call today is Mr. B. Ravi, who's advising Infibeam on corporate and financial strategy as an independent consultant.
Indeed, good afternoon.
We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. I now request Mr. Vishal Mehta to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Rajith. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I'm thrilled to welcome you to Infibeam Avenues Q4 and FY 2025 earnings call. It's a milestone moment as we close the year of an extraordinary transformation, and we look ahead to an even more ambitious future. FY 2025 has been a defining year of transformation for Infibeam Avenues. It was not just a year of growth; it was a year where we redefined who we are. We evolved from being a digital payments company into a multi-vertical technology powerhouse operating at the intersection of fintech, artificial intelligence, and digital infrastructure. I'm happy to announce that we have achieved our financial guidance for the year. We have delivered a robust growth across all our key metrics. Our consolidated gross revenue for FY 2025 stood at INR 3,993 crore, reflecting a significant increase from the previous year.
Our net revenue reached INR 526 crore, and our profit after tax surged to INR 210 crore, marking a 42% year-over-year growth. We are strengthening our capital base for future growth. To fuel our ambitious growth plans, our board has approved up to INR 700 crore of rights issue. This capital infusion will accelerate our strategic initiative, including: one, RedisPay, we are rolling out to our customer-facing digital payments platform; second is Infibeam Quantum Edge, expanding our AI and data center infrastructure; and third is international expansion, scaling our payments infrastructure in key markets. The rights issue will underscore our commitment to inclusive value creation, allowing our existing shareholders to participate meaningfully in our next phase of growth. We are happy to announce that we've redefined our brand identity.
We have unveiled a new logo and a brand identity that encapsulates our vision to lead at the confluence of fintech, AI, and digital infrastructure. The dynamic ribbon-like design, infused with vibrant hues, symbolizes agility, innovation, and digital connectivity. The distinctive dot on the I in Infibeam represents our India First philosophy, reaffirming our dedication to nation development through homegrown digital infrastructure and technology innovation. We have revolutionized merchant payments with CCAvenue Soundbox. Our CCAvenue Soundbox has gained significant traction among retailers across India. This device offers dynamic QR generation, tap-to-pay features, omnichannel integration, and compatibility with ERPs and social commerce platforms. In Q4, we onboarded about 50,000 new merchants, bringing our total merchant base to over 1.2 million. We are empowering consumers with RedisPay.
Our subsidiary company, Rediff.com India Limited, has been granted a third-party application provider license, which is called the TPAP license by NPCI, for our digital payments platform, RedisPay. This license enables us to offer UPI services, marking our formal entry into the consumer-facing digital payments sector. RedisPay is not just about payments; it's a gateway to a broader digital financial services ecosystem, including credit, insurance, and wealth management solutions. We are also introducing RedisOne for SMBs, which is small and medium businesses. RedisOne, which is our cloud-based enterprise suite for small businesses and merchants, integrates ERP, CRM, and HRMS tools for our payments platform, providing a comprehensive digital operating system for India's underserved small and medium businesses segment. We are scaling internationally in the GCC region. Our expansion in Saudi Arabia is well underway. We've gone live with key clients such as BFF Global, Nissan, and Infinity.
We are also in active conversations with other large enterprise accounts. Our PTFE license from SAMA and locally hosted infrastructure provides us regulatory readiness and operational scalability. We anticipate international revenues to comprise about 20%-25% of our top line over the next couple of years. We have pioneered agentic AI with Phronetic.ai. Under our dedicated AI division, Phronetic.ai, we are developing a groundbreaking global marketplace for artificial intelligence agents. This platform will enable developers, enterprises, and everyday users to build, buy, sell, and operate autonomous AI agents without writing a single line of code. We believe agentic AI is the next major technology shift, and we are positioning ourselves at the forefront of this transformation. We are launching Infibeam Quantum Edge. Our Quantum Edge initiative involves deploying small-scale distributed data centers, starting with a 2 MW unit.
These centers will host our AI frameworks and support real-time computing use cases. With an expected ROI under 24 months, we already have demand visibility for upcoming locations. In summary, we are building a future-ready ecosystem. As India progresses towards a INR 3.5 trillion digital payments economy by 2029 and with cloud infrastructure demand surging, our integrated approach of fintech, AI, and cloud positions us uniquely to lead and innovate. Our strategy focuses on building enduring platforms with scale, stickiness, and superior economics over time. Thank you all for your continued support. I will now hand over the call to Vishwas Patel to walk us through payments business and operational highlights for the quarter. Vishwas, all yours.
Thanks, Vishal. And good afternoon to everyone on the call. Q4 FY 2025 was nothing short of exhilarating for our payments business.
Despite intense competition in the Indian digital payments space, Infibeam Avenues powered ahead, innovating relentlessly, scaling faster, and strengthening our presence across both Indian and the Middle Eastern markets. The CCAvenue Smart SoundBox has been launched to disrupt merchant payments. Let's start with one of the biggest success stories for us this year, the CCAvenue Smart SoundBox, which isn't just a QR code speaker or a full-blown, it's a full-blown fintech device. Dynamic QR, tap-to-pay, cards, NFC, audio transaction alerts in multiple languages, all directly integrated with our CCAvenue merchant accounting and depositing platform. In essence, the people who are just using a bland speaker box today are graduating to accept all kinds of payments through our CCAvenue Smart SoundBox.
What's exciting is that the adoption is surging across tier two and three cities where merchants are hungry for simple and powerful tools that consolidate multiple payment options in one slick device. Since now the lines between the online and offline are blurring, and it's an omnichannel solution, today we have aggressively onboarded over 110,000 new merchants in this Q4 alone, taking our total merchant base to 1.2 million. We are adding thousands of merchants daily, and our focus in India's long-tail MSME is unlocking immense value and volume. Smartphones are card machines, so we have introduced CCAvenue TapPay. It's a bold step towards democratizing payments. TapPay within our mobile app. From now, any Android phone has become a contactless card terminal, no additional hardware required.
This is game-changing for microentrepreneurs and gig workers, offering them a frictionless, low-cost path to digital acceptance of all kinds of payment options, be it UPI or cards. Using CC Avenue online payments, we are powering conversions globally. Online CC Avenue remains a high-performing engine, constantly evolving. In Q4, we integrated Google Pay, and for our Gulf operations, we have added Tabby and Tamara Buy Now Pay Later options in that market, meeting the region's rising demand for flexible payments. These additions are driving higher checkout success rates and boosting merchant sales. CC Avenue is India's leading digital debit processor. We continue to lead as India's largest direct debit processor.
With the onboarding of Basin Catholic Cooperative Bank, we now support direct debit through over 60+ banks, a testament to our deep-rooted banking relationship, as well as our innovation to connect to direct core banking solutions of so many banks. CC Avenue GCC expansion, Saudi market taking off, our international strategy is gaining serious momentum. In Saudi Arabia, we are now live with marquee clients like BFF Global, Nissan, Infinity Motors, and it is backed by SAMA, the Saudi Arabian Monetary Authority, approved PTFE license and fully local infrastructure. This is not about big names; it is about recurring volume that we are building, and our merchant pipelining sectors like aviation, e-commerce, and government are rapidly growing in that region. Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Oman are now our core growth territories. We are investing aggressively to build them. We had a record merchant acquisition, as explained earlier.
It's a multi-sector expansion. In Q4 2025, we added 110,000 merchants, and for the full year, we grossed 420,000 new merchant onboardings. That is up 35% compared to financial year 2024. From hospitality to business, healthcare to logistics to real estate to MSMEs, our omnichannel strategy, blending online, offline, and billing, continues to resonate, especially with the unserved small and mid-sized businesses. Our Bill Avenue solution is targeting digital utility payments and deep rural penetration. Our Bill Avenue platform processed over INR 120 million transactions in 2025, with the volume climbing steadily in Q4. What's remarkable is the growing agent activity in rural and semi-urban areas, a reflection of our platform's simplicity and massive bill coverage. We are making digital utility payments truly universal. Our revenue solution is empowering hospitality with AI.
In hospitality tech, revenue is picking up pace, integrated AI-based revenue optimization tools that help hotels fine-tune pricing and maximize occupancy. Our transaction volumes in this vertical rose by over 28% year-on-year, and we are working closely with hotel chains to expand the rollout of smart pricing features. In summary, we are building an intelligent, scalable payments ecosystem, and at the heart of it is an unwavering strategy: omnichanneled, AI-enhanced, infrastructure-backed fintech solutions that grow with the merchants. Whether it's hardware like CC Avenue Smart Soundbox or mobile features like CC Avenue TapPay or enterprise tools like CC Avenue Mars or B2B solutions, we are creating a payment stack that is feature-ready and deeply embedded in the India and GCC digital fabric. As Vishal said, while we are front-loading investments in AI, Redis, and cloud infrastructure, these are strategic long-term bets that will create strong defensible moat around our businesses.
With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO, Sunil Bhagat, who will take you through the financial performance of the quarter. Over to you, Sunil Bhagat.
Thank you, Vishwas Sir. Good evening to everyone. I'm pleased to share the financial highlights for the fourth quarter and full year 2025. In quarter four, we delivered solid double-digit growth in both gross and net revenue, which is supported by a balanced mix of gross and net revenue, and both recorded healthy growth on a year-over-year basis. Our expansion in online and offline payment volumes, deeper penetration across MSMEs, and rapid merchant onboarding were the key contributors. Our net take rate continues to trend upward, reflecting stronger monetization, favorable merchant mix, and effective pricing strategies across our platforms. These improvements directly fuel our growth in net revenue and operating profitability, making our growth not just faster but smarter. For quarter four, our gross revenue saw an impressive growth, increasing from INR 716 crore in quarter four 2024 to INR 1,160 crore in quarter four 2025, reflecting a strong upward trajectory.
Our net revenue also showed a notable year-over-year increase of 28%, rising from INR 105 crore to INR 135 crore in this quarter. Our net take rate continued its upward trajectory, improving significantly year-over-year from 9.2 basis points in quarter four 2024 to 10.6 basis points in quarter four 2025. This steady enhancement in take rate has been a key contributor to the growth in our net revenue, affecting profitability and bottom-line performance. Our EBITDA for the quarter saw a growth of 25%, reaching INR 78 crore in quarter four 2025, which is up from INR 62 crore in the same period last year, with our EBITDA margin of 58% as a percentage of net revenue. Our profit after tax stood at INR 50 crore in quarter four 2025, which is reflecting a 53% year-over-year increase.
If we consider the full year financial year, for full financial year 2025, our gross revenue saw an impressive growth, increasing from INR 3,150 crore to INR 3,993 crore in 2025, which is reflecting a 27% increase. Our full year net revenue also showed a year-over-year increase of 25%, rising from INR 419 crore to INR 526 crore. Our full year EBITDA also saw a growth of 23%, reaching to INR 312 crore in 2025, as against INR 254 crore in last year. Our annual profit after tax stood at INR 210 crore in 2025, reflecting a 42% year-over-year growth. Though the revenue from Saudi Arabia is only starting to show up in this quarter's numbers, we anticipate a meaningful uplift in 2026, as large clients like BFF Global and Nissan and others can ramp up volumes. With local infrastructure in place and compliance secured, we are poised for accelerated growth in the region.
We have maintained a strong cash-rich balance sheet with prudent capital management. As we prepare for FY 2026, we are finalizing plans to strategically invest in expanding our data center infrastructure under the Infibeam Quantum Edge initiative, a move that will enhance our AI capabilities and long-term cost advantages. In closing, FY 2025 was a year of building momentum and laying a scalable foundation. As we step into FY 2026, we remain focused on expanding our merchant base across India as well as GCC, accelerating monetization through AI-powered platforms, strengthening recurring revenue streams across verticals. We are committed to profitable growth and long-term value creation, not just for today's market but for the digital economy of tomorrow. With that, I would like to hand over the call to moderators for questions and answers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Deepesh Sancheti from Maanya Finance. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible?
Yes, you are. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Okay. Now, my first question is regarding the Infibeam Quantum Edge and Soniox AI. What is the pricing model, subscription, and consumption base? Is it bundled with a fintech service? Where do you see the biggest early monetization opportunities?
Sure. This is Vishal. I'll take this. See, basically, if you recollect, a few quarters ago, we decided to build out VLLM models, which is video large language models. That particular opportunity was catered towards two basic areas. One is hospitality and gas stations, where AI is not just able to identify an object, but AI can actually identify a scene and identify even activities within the scene. A typical example of this would be that in a gas station, if there is a video LLM model sitting with CCTV cameras, then it cannot just identify which vehicle has come. It can also perhaps get information from dispensation data on gas stations on how much fuel has been filled.
It can perhaps work with wallets to be able to take the money out of the wallet without actually a requirement for a QR code or any other card type. Similarly, in hospitals also, it was perhaps used to monitor certain patients, critical care patients, more with visual representations, and specifically in areas where you would perhaps have one hospital agent caring over multiple patients, specifically in ICUs. That was the basic use case. It was an enterprise solution. That enterprise solution, we were able to secure more than a $1 million contract. It was good, but we thought that that was not it was still an enterprise sale, which means that we had to spend an effort. Fortunately, we did apply for a patent there, and we were able to apply for the patent in USPTO.
The monetization model was an enterprise sale model, which was sitting on top of existing infrastructure with no reason or no requirement to change any hardware, which means the existing hardware, whatever discs, whatever hardware has been utilized, no changes in any hardware. Using a screen share, we'll be able to pick up all this information. That is what our patent application was. The big differentiator there we made was that you do not need to have any hardware, dedicated hardware, or change in hardware, specifically even in practically any DRM or anything that you would choose. Beyond that, we started working on an agentic AI framework. An agentic AI framework is more around being able to have agents monitor rather than humans monitoring specific activities.
That is where we think the larger opportunity lies because if you build agentic AI capability positions, Infibeam is not just a fintech company but an AI-first fintech infrastructure provider, something that very few in India or, in fact, in certain cases, Middle East and many other geographies are doing at scale. The model there is there is a business, there is an enterprise model, and a consumer model. It's a developer platform. Developers can develop their own agent, and then they can deploy the agent for their own use cases or somebody else's use cases. If you look at online, there is an enterprise pricing model, which will come, it's in beta. It's rolled out in beta. There is an enterprise pricing model, and then there's a consumer model.
Consumer model is, for a certain number of queries, it's free, beyond which the consumer starts paying for it.
Okay. So in case of Moonlight and the AI agenting, will that be a model which will be available to everyone, or as you said, that it will be available for the consumers only for a fixed number of queries?
For free, yes. Which means that for a certain number of queries for the consumer, the developer will own the model, which means that it's a developer platform. If you are a software developer, or even if you're not a software developer, if you can actually deploy, install, and deploy the model practically in a matter of a few clicks, a few of the models have been deployed on agents.Rediff.com. In other words, you can think of it as every skill of a human being is actually an agent. You can think of it as an SEO agent, a legal agent. Everything is an agent. Theoretically, we believe that that is the way the world is going towards. What we have done is we have, rather than creating agents, created a developer platform where developers can create agents.
Even if you are not a developer, you'll be able to build your own agent. You can try it out as well as of today. It's in beta, but you can build out your own agent. Of course, upon approval, once it's approved, it'll go into a marketplace, which is the Rediff marketplace. It can be implemented in any marketplace, practically speaking, as long as we are integrated into that marketplace.
Who will own this agent? Will it be a property of Rediff, or will it be a property of the developer?
Developer will own the property. Rediff is a publisher. In other words, when consumers start paying for that service, that is when a typical marketplace does get revenues out of that. In other words, the agent is a property of the developer and the developer platform.
Right. How does Rediff monetize this?
When the consumer starts paying beyond a certain query, or if an enterprise wants the agent to be able to summarize emails or because Rediff is a large enterprise client, and there are thousands of companies. If the agent is deployed within the email client for an enterprise to do many more activities, including device management and others, that's when Rediff gets paid.
Okay. So it's not possible that a developer develops his own agent and takes it out of Rediff.
That is not.
No, they can do that, but there are different commercials for that. The developer platform has to work. Developer platform will work with the developer to enable that.
Okay. There will be a monetization.
In this case, monetization in this case will work with the developer to enable it.
Perfect. Okay. Great. Do you envision a B2C embedded financial model through your merchant base offering credit to end users or vendors or merchants on your platform? What is the infrastructure that will be required to support this?
If the question is that, are we enabling credit using our merchant base? Is that the question, or?
Yes. Yes. What infrastructure will be required for that?
See, I will tell you. What we do today is express settlement. We do early settlements on payments. That is as far as it goes because within more than $1 billion, we had zero NPA in that, which means that a merchant, rather than getting paid after three days, they get paid the same day. That has been enabled. What we have not done is extended loans and credits and others to merchants because that model today in India, the way it exists is a DSA model where you earn commission as a provider. We do not have any aspiration to build our own NBFC. We think that the DSA model is an interesting model, but it is not the one that we want to bet on.
What we think is that using Rediff as a consumer framework, we will enable a lot of services, financial services, both to businesses as well as consumers. Access to that will, because we have millions of merchants, we build out an ecosystem using that. We will be announcing quite a few things along with Rediff Pay shortly. We have the NPCI license, the TPAP license through NPCI. We think that maybe in the next few weeks, pending approvals on the application and security, we will be able to roll out, and you will be able to communicate a lot more.
Okay. So are we also looking at something like UPI credit? I mean, UPI is just everybody's offering UPI, but UPI credit wherein a customer can get a credit over his UPI payment. That is really gaining momentum. I mean, will that be an opportunity which we'll be looking at?
Yeah.
Vishwas here.
Vishwas, go ahead.
Yeah. Vishwas here.
Okay.
UPI-owned credit, there'll be various people who will be offering credit looking at the UPI. We have aggregated on the CCAvenue Payments platform. We will be integrating or we'll be allowing credit on UPI. There's a commercial model coming in with every transaction that comes in. Credit on UPI, there are some MDR, and there's some money that comes on to us. We have to enable it as a payment option across our merchant network in a sense that today, where we have enabled UPI across a million-plus merchants, there we'll allow not only Rupee-owned UPI, Rupee credit card-owned UPI, but even this credit-owned UPI, which the other third-party people are in. We are going to act as an aggregator to one on this, whether starting our own credit business on UPI, allowing it on our books.
Right now, there is no immediate strategy in this quarter or the next.
Okay. Great. Now, my question, my last question actually was regarding the fundraise plan, which we are trying to do. One was that we already have good cash amount in our books. So why this fundraise? Are we building a watershed for future acquisitions or something big in Vegas or any other thing? Secondly, then why, if you're doing this, why rights issue? Because you will be issuing the rights issue at a discount over the current market price, which will, again, increase the dilution.
Yeah. This is Vishal here. See, we think that building AI capability positions Infibeam in a very different setup. You're right. We do have cash position. We believe that if we want to be meaningful and relevant for the future, as well as build out AI-first fintech infrastructure, something very few people are getting into. We've seen early success in that. What we are not doing, I'll tell you, is we're not building LLM. We are not building large language models, something that Sovereign and others want to do, as well as large companies like OpenAI and others. They want to participate in our cloud. We are not building LLMs. What we will be doing is working on agentic AI and reasoning models, reasoning models that sit on top that potentially are the input to the AI agents.
That is where we find that there's hopefully a lot more interest and monetization associated with. For that, we will build out our infrastructure. We believe that we will be investing in CapEx. There will be a CapEx cycle. We'll invest about $100 million in the next three years in building out such capabilities. Partially, it'll come from Rife, and partially, through accruals. We believe that is the only way we can build out an ecosystem which is autonomous, intelligent, decision-making. It will require certain things in building out global fintech adaptability that we are building out, and it will scale our productivity and automation. All of these are critical for our ambitions to become somewhat a global-powered fintech setup. We think that building out this, quote-unquote, what you said, watershed, will help us get there.
As you know, in the past also, we have been appropriately conservative. We think that there is a lot of opportunity in front of us. Partially, if you are not an AI-first company, you will not survive in the next few years. With these pieces, we think we are not saying they are right or wrong. This is just our philosophy. We think that this is the right time to get invested into a CapEx cycle to build it out.
Okay. We are not building any data centers. We will not need any data centers for ourselves, right? Will we get that?
We already have a 2 MW.
We are not doing LLMs?
No, we are building a, we already have a 2 MW data center. Building a reasoning model, you'll need infra. You will need certain investments in infra. Either you can use it, or you can build it. Depending upon that, we'll build out 2 MW. We'll build out more as and when, depending upon, because, see, these models and agents, they'll want, certain use cases are such that they want real-time. They will sit on top of an LLM. An LLM can potentially be replaced in the backend. Either you can use an OpenAI, or you can use O3, or you can use any other, even the one that has been recently built out by Server.
In other words, you can essentially, this sits on top of it, and it essentially enables because the data is owned by the reasoning models and not the LLMs in some ways to drive input and use. And agents automate the workflow. They also make it more predictive because that is the one which gives you productivity. It automates whatever workflow that you want to work on. It'll automate it for you. This is not just automation. It is more predictability along with automation, which is what we want to get into. Like you mentioned, for payments and others, of course, we are going to deploy it for our own use cases.
Because if you think about it, you would want, in some ways, agentic AI to automate fraud detection, manage risk, authenticate users, adapt new threats without any constant human intervention that we'd require right now. It somewhat helps reduce our operating cost. Whether you think about merchants, it can power certain personalized recommendation, dynamic pricing. We have 10 million+ merchants. Cross-border becomes more interesting. You can automate certain tasks like handling compliance, localization, languages. It gives us a strategic edge over traditional processes. When you think about Rediff as an ecosystem, it also gives us an opportunity to serve agents as virtual assistants. It will proactively manage data, transform productivity. It becomes somewhat proactive than reactive. You essentially drive a continuous learning curve across the entire ecosystem. We believe it's a strategic differentiator, both in the short and long term.
Okay. So Phronetic.ai will not only do financials but also into different, different other aspects of this, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. All agents will go across. Even you can think there's an SEO agent right here. Search engine optimization is an agent.
Right. So then I mean, wouldn't it make a strategic sense to actually disinvest the company into two things? One is into payments. That is the CCAvenue part. And the other is into the AI. This is going to be the hardcore layer. I mean, will it make sense? Vishwas, what would you say?
No, it's a good question. Something that we debate on all the time. I think the answer is very clear. AI is actually a horizontal layer. It is not a specific layer for a particular, so you can think of any, we can see a world where even a single agent can be a billion-dollar agent. If you ask me, maybe in three to five years, there is one agent which is so good at doing what they're doing that potentially will be used by everyone. We do not think that AI is as much of a vertical because most of the AI models, general AI models, become more and more smarter and better. The vertical AI kind of vanishes.
In certain cases, to reduce infra costs and so on and so forth, you'll have to build out RAGs to be able to make them slightly more optimal and somewhat more interesting. We don't think that that is a verticalized approach. That would not work. It's a horizontal layer. It's not a vertical layer.
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Sancheti made a request to please rejoin the queue. We have other participants waiting for their turn. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman from InCred Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations to the management for a good set of results. My first question was, as we are targeting a 20%-25% revenue from our international operations over two years, what proportion of this is expected from high-volume, low-margin business versus our high-margin value-added service?
Aman, a lot of it we think will come from at least this year will come from high-volume, low-margin. Fortunately, in international, the low margins itself is slightly higher than our margins here in India. In other words, the take rate over there international is almost two times more of what we get in India. Now, even if we go with high volume and low margins, we expect that there'll be a drop in the take rate internationally because when we add large clients, we would work with lower margins. The good thing in this is that we are also expanding across smaller merchants in that geography by ways of aggregation as well as through indirect channels. We believe that there'll be some compromise in terms of margins, but it'll still be higher than what we make in India.
Okay, sir. Next was, I mean, a follow-up with Saudi Arabia that is, I mean, ramping up its in terms of enterprise clients like Nissan and VFS going live. What is the expected payback period for this international infrastructure investment there? How do we compare the margins versus our domestic operations?
The second part of the question is margins are a factor of magnitude, at least 2x of what we see in India in the international business. That's one. You also will appreciate that there is going to be competition, and we are aware of the fact that there'll be more and more companies who would want to participate in terms of growth in the Middle East, specifically in Saudi Arabia. It's also a regulated market, much like India. There is regulatory authority, SAMA, which is very particular about who they allow and who they don't. In fact, we took more than a few quarters to even go live because we have a 100% subsidiary there. We have a SAGIA license. We don't have any partner. We are one of very few companies who have it. I think that is one part.
What was the other question that you asked? Can you remind me?
Expected payback period for this infrastructure?
We think the payback is we don't want to be super aggressive, but anywhere between one to three years. We think that if we are able to, we've spent quite a bit of capital on localization. There'll be more and more wall gardening that we call about for each country because they want to keep data internally, and they want to make sure that their financial systems are not compromised. We have to continuously upgrade on both regulatory and compliance-related activities. The payback, given that we have built out scale in India and that we have been in this domain for more than a decade, we think that, and because we have so many clients in India, many of them, they also have presence in the Middle East and in Saudi. For them to go after the low-lying fruit, for us, is very easy.
If they trust us in India, they can also trust us in Saudi. I think the payback won't be more than three years.
Okay, sir. I think that's it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Grishma Shah from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good evening. Thanks for taking my question. A couple of quick questions from my side. I want to understand Rediff's business model a little better. What are our monetization strategies across various verticals, including Rediff?
Yeah. This is Vishal here. I will talk about Rediff Enterprise, and then I'll tell Vishwas to speak about Rediff Pay. Rediff, as you perhaps know, it's been around for more than two decades. We picked up 54% majority stake in Rediff last year, sometime in September and October of last year. From the outside, you would see Rediff as being a top 1,000 traffic site in the world. Rediff has not made much blitz in advertising. There's practically zero spent on marketing for the last three years, at least. In some ways, it continues to be top 1,000 traffic site in the world and top 100 in the country. Number two, they have enterprise email business. Rediff sends about 500 million emails every day. When you talk about enterprise email, much like you have Outlook and Google as enterprise clients.
In your company, you would use either a Google client or an Outlook client for managing your company enterprise emails. Rediff is providing enterprise emails for more than a few thousand companies. In fact, between Rediff Pro and Rediff Enterprise, there are more than 20,000 companies using Rediff mail client. Each of them, they pay a certain amount per box, per mailbox. In some ways, it is scaled up because it [audio distortion] emails every day. There are 175 million registered email users who are consumers on Rediff, out of which 75 million have not come to Rediff for 10 years, which means that they are somewhat not active. If you look at daily active on Rediff, there are about 7 million. 7 million people come to Rediff every single day out of the rest of the 75 million.
Our objective there is that in terms of revenue streams, there is email subscriptions that are being paid by enterprises, and then there is ad sales, advertising sales. Those are the two business opportunities that we want to go after. Can we provide? Because we believe that much like in payments, there is data localization. Similarly, in emails also, there will perhaps be an opportunity to do data, or there may be certain mandates because GDPR guidelines are there, but more DPDP guidelines are also there. There will be an opportunity to make sure that there is going to be localization of data. Today, if your data is on, if you are using Google Client, your data is on Google Cloud. If you are using Outlook, it is on Azure Cloud. Both of them are international companies, which means that email is not encrypted.
Your email is visible to anyone who's a regulator. With macroeconomics the way it is, we believe data localization will come in emails also, which means that anyone and everyone in Rediff is one of the perhaps the only one or one of the one, two, or three companies that has a track record with data localization for so many years. We think that that's one opportunity. Ad sales is another one. As we increase traffic and relevance, we will be able to monetize on those ads. I mean, even today, the ad revenue is more than $1 million. We think that that is the opportunity to go after. As far as Rediff Pay is concerned, I'll tell Vishwas to talk about Rediff Pay. Vishwas, go ahead.
Yeah.
Thanks, Vishal. Look, Rediff Pay, since Vishal just mentioned the number of users, active users that are there on the platform, right? Rediff Pay is our strategy. Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Rediff Pay is our strategy to go directly to the consumers and onboard them on multiple things to get them in the ecosystem. We are already very strong on the B2B. From the merchant perspective, we have lots of things in payments and platforms and other things that we have. The whole SQL ecosystem with the merchants is there. The whole ecosystem with the banks is there. Now, the whole ecosystem with the consumers is the play that we are getting with Rediff Pay. Rediff Pay will onboard merchants through our TPAP license through NPCI to get their UPI ID mapped. That's just the first part. First part.
Every transaction the consumer does using that, if they're paying through or mapping it through their RuPay card or CC on UPI or credit on UPI, there is interchange and there's money that is coming in from the other side, right? There is a transaction-based revenue that keeps coming in. That's the first part. Now, through our BVPS licensing and premium avenues of Bharat Bill Payment Systems, we have already started. If you upgraded the latest one, we already started with mobile prepaid recharge. There are like 1 billion prepaid SIM cards in the country doing an average of 1.1 billion recharge transactions every month, right, for recharging. Only 5% is postpaid. 95% is prepaid. Those transactions, those volumes will be processing through it.
Any utility, any bill payments, any credit card dues, all those have already started, and we will see a bigger achievement, transaction volume scaling up very quickly, and people also using mapping their bank accounts to create that Rediff UPI ID also. Cross-selling is one of the key parts where we want to put the entire ecosystem where they have their own email. If you've seen from 1999 till now, 2025, where we are today, email has not changed. Everything else, the whole technology sales, but you still have your email ID, right, which is there, and you still need it for everything. Rediff is one of the core. Another DPI IT adds in my IT actually, the data protection that will very clearly stage data localization and other things for audit within the Indian law enforcement authority.
Rediff already has a good track record with thousands of companies using it and half a billion email going out. Then merge it with the UPI and the cross-selling of all our other services, which is just the start. Many other monetization things will also happen. We are already seeing what's happening in the industry. Money should be made on every transaction that comes in. Your good part is that we already have a base of consumers, right? We already have millions of users already there. That's how the whole monetization strategy of Rediff Pay will be there in the initial strategies, cross-selling a lot of new things and innovative things that we'll be putting in with a lot of metro tickets to everything that the entire ecosystem that can happen. That's the first initial strategy.
That's how the Rediff Pay strategy will evolve in the next two, three quarters.
Okay. So maybe by the end of next financial year, I mean, this financial year, FY 2026, is when we will slowly start monetizing the entire Rediff ecosystem. Is that a fair assumption?
The fair assumption to make it is that by end of next quarter, we would have started monetizing.
Okay. Okay. The other thing that I wanted to understand is that the UPI incentive in the system by the government has come off. The noise around this is that the MDR for large merchants is coming through. What is your view, given that you are part of this entire payment ecosystem and one of the leading fintechs? What are your views as to how this entire thing would shape up for everyone in the industry?
Frankly, since I chair also the Payments Council of India, we're well aware that it has gone up to the Prime Minister's Office to do it for this particular decision. Right now, until it happens, we cannot comment on it. Anyway, since we are one of the largest processors of UPI transactions online as well as now with AccountBox offline also, any kind of this will significantly add a lot of revenue if it happens.
Okay. Okay. The other question was on the international operations. Since we have spent so many quarters to get our compliances in place with SAMA and the other GCC regulators, how do you think our go-to-market approach is across these countries? I mean, do we have a strong head start? How do we look at this?
In UAE, we are already dominating. We are in the top three and some of the biggest clients there in that market in UAE with all the Emir, Nakheel, DAMAC. Even if you want to buy your ticket to go through Emirates, it goes to us. If you want to go visit the Burj Khalifa at the top, it goes to CC Avenue and the payment gateway. Some of the biggest, we have made a significant indulge into the UAE market. Saudi market, fortunately or unfortunately, due to the regulatory thing, licensing thing, and data localization that they insisted, we had to host the entire primary and our DR systems there within the kingdom. That is why it got delayed and this thing. Now we are live, and transactions are coming in. Significantly less competition there at this moment there.
I think we'll scale those things up fast because we've seen a lot of our merchants within the UAE are also present in Saudi, and they're looking forward to onboarding onto us. We think that we will be fairly successful in Saudi. In Oman, we have gone through the technical route where we are providing our tech stacks to the leading banks there. Bank Muscat is live. In fact, it's done significantly well, doing more than 100,000 transactions a day with us. That's Bank Muscat, which has 70% of market share of Oman, working on our stack. We have the other three banks following: Bank Dhofar, Bank Sohar, also working on a platform there.
All the top four banks in Oman are already on a platform through our TSP route, where we make money on every transaction as a technical service provider. Those three are the biggest markets in the UAE. That is a set. As we have already announced, we will be going into the U.S. and Australia shortly after this. That is the whole strategy right now.
Okay. Fine. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Tushar Sarda from Athena Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. I just wanted to understand your numbers, the basic numbers in a little more granular fashion. As per the quarterly results, five-week exchange, you have two lines of business: payment business and e-comm and platform. What is the e-comm and platform is one question. On payment business, you report transaction value, gross revenue, and net revenue. If you can explain what are these numbers and how do they relate to each other?
Sure, Tushar. If you look at the notes below, in the notes, the business segments are qualified. In other words, what is included in the platform business and the payment business. In other words, anything which is in specific, any place where we are providing software frameworks. And that software frameworks, if you look at note two of our financial statement, it will actually in note two, you will actually see what has been included in the payments business and the platform business, right? Your first question is that what is included? I think that is qualified in note two of our financial statements. What was the second question that you had? Sorry.
Now within this, when you say e-commerce platform, in the presentation, there is just one slide, I think, on the e-commerce platform. Do you have license revenue or do you have recurring? Because previously, I believe it was Gem. Now, Gem, you do not recognize the revenue, right?
Correct. So we do not recognize from December 2023, we have stopped recording it. Although Gem completely runs on our platform. So even as of today.
What is the revenue here in this platform business? What is the revenue?
We provide our platform. We are talking about millions of dollars of licensing revenue. In the past, also, we had mentioned that we have given our entire framework to very large enterprises. You would see some names over here down. Jio is one of them. Internationally, we have given it to three companies. One is Saudi Telecom, which is based out of Saudi Arabia. The entire framework works on us. We continue providing it to about seven different companies. Over there, primarily, we get licensing revenue. We do have a success fee there as well.
It's a fixed revenue.
It's a fixed revenue. It's a fixed revenue. There is a success fee in addition to licensing revenue that kicks in sometimes. In other words, Gem was more transactional revenue. Gem revenue has been stopped being recognized since December 2023. Okay?
Is this the same kind of platform which was used for Gem?
Correct.
Or is it a?
Similar platform. Similar platform to Gem.
Correct.
Not the same. We are in arbitration with Gem. We're expecting to hear back about, I mean, fortunately, we do have legal position saying that this intellectual property solely belongs to Infibeam Avenues. That we have from the court. We are in arbitration to be able to find out what, as far as the licensing fee is concerned, from Gem. That part, we will have hopefully something to share in the next quarter or so.
Okay. So my last question was on the payment side. Sorry, Vishwas, you were saying something.
No, no, no. Tushar, Ravi here. I just was saying that platform, we have always mentioned the last two years, if you see, even when Gem was going out, at that time, there were questions as to who could be using this platform. We had said that we have built a platform for all times to come, and we can use it for various clients on just a small customization. That is exactly what has happened. Though Gem is not there, this platform business continues with not just GEO, which was there at that point in time and growing every day, but also the international and seven other customers, like what Vishal said. This is monetizing a platform already built in with full infrastructure, which now is being monetized. That is how it is. Please continue with the next question.
Yeah. My next question was on the payment business. You have the gross transaction payment process. Then you have gross revenue, and you have net revenue, right? How do these numbers correlate with each other? I understand that in the gross payment that you process, there is a lot of revenue on which you do not earn any, a lot of payments on which you do not earn any revenue, right? I am assuming that only the credit card portion is what you earn revenue on, which is around INR 68,000 crore for the quarter.
It's credit and debit cards also and corporate cards. In other words, UPI is not.
Net banking also.
Net banking.
Net banking also. Wallet also.
Majority is just credit card, right? I mean, 175 basis points gross you will get on credit card. The others may be very small.
Correct.
Net banking is also big. Credit card is the major one. Net banking also significantly contributes.
When you say gross revenue, it is all related to payment, is it?
Yeah. So gross revenue, Tushar, if the question is that whatever revenues we report, we segment revenues. If you look at our segmental results, you will have the gross revenue, which is segmented between payments and commerce. If you kindly go to the segmented slide, you will see. Gross revenue is a total gross revenue, is a combination of payments and platforms.
Majority is payment. INR 1,047 crore for the quarter.
That's right.
On a INR 2.25 trillion of payment process.
That's right.
Right?
[audio distortion]
Tushar, we collect revenue, which is gross, and there are certain expenses which we have to pass on, which have to be booked before we come to the net revenue. There is this expense portion which is deducted from that gross to net in terms of passing on certain commission. That net revenue becomes the net revenue. After that, all the overheads and all will allow us to get to the EBITDA. That is the flow of the income.
No, that I understand. I'm just trying to understand the gross revenue concept.
Yeah. Gross revenue, you're spot on. You're spot on.
So it is around 15 basis points. It's 15 basis points. Correct?
Yeah. Certain UPI transactions beyond zero TDR, huh? So those are very low.
Yeah. That I understand.
Yeah. On an average, you are.
You have a net revenue, which is on a INR 1,050 crore, I believe it's around INR 80 crore kind of net revenue that you are reporting. If I take your presentation and remove the e-comm revenue.
That's 77.9. You're right. That's the EBITDA.
Okay. Okay. So yeah, I just wanted to get my head cleared on the number.
Sorry. Net revenue is INR 135.
You mentioned very interesting thing about.
Sorry.
Net revenue is.
Sorry. Tushar, sorry. Net revenue is INR 135 crore. Sorry. EBITDA is INR 77.9 crore.
Yeah. 135- 51 of e-comm.
Correct. Yeah. That's right.
INR 84 crore for the payment business.
You're right.
Correct?
Yep.
Yeah. Then you mentioned very interesting thing about Soundbox, which would be kind of integrating everything. So which means my credit card can go on now on my phone. I do not need to carry it physically. Or is it only for Google or Android operating system?
Let me explain. The TapPay is what goes only on the mobile that comes along with the CCAvenue Merchant Accounting and Reporting System app, right? You download the app, and through that, on your Android phone, you can start accepting it. Soundbox is a physical device. Today, you have seen all this QR code with Soundbox devices everywhere on every merchant. This also not only does static QR, but it also does dynamic QR mapped to the amount of the transaction so that when you scan it, you do not have to put the amount. It also accepts credit card, MasterCard, Visa, RuPay, credit and debit, plus EMI and other things also. It is a way up from a normal just speaker wallah QR code, static QR. This gives within almost very little on the upper side of the typical speaker Soundbox.
This is a physical device that is deployed. The transaction is put within the same app.
I understand that. You said that the credit card can go on the phone, right? That depends on the phone OS that you do not have anything to do with.
Yeah. That is TapPay. The CCAvenue TapPay, that will go only on the Android, any Android phone.
Okay.
[audio distortion]
Yeah. That's what I wanted to understand. Can I ask one more question?
Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah. You are trying to do a lot of new things. Your existing business return on equity is 4%. As a shareholder, how do I reconcile to this? The existing business is on 4%, whereas the opportunity seems to be massive in front of you. As a shareholder, how do we look at it?
Tushar, the way to look into it is, I think Goodwill is artificially depressing our ROE. There is a big line item called Goodwill in our balance sheet. That is the one which is depressing our ROE for the time being. If you remove the Goodwill, you'll perhaps see that the ROE is better than what you are talking about, much better. That is one. Second is that, yeah, we are looking at investing. There will be a CapEx cycle that we are getting into. That is mainly around making it more AI-ready. In other words, all our frameworks and all the things that we have built out, I think it builds automation. It is essentially, I think it's survival for any company to actually get into that space. Of course, opinions may differ.
At least the time that we have spent in about the last few quarters in terms of building our capabilities, we find that there's significant leverage and advantages that we get if we are moving quickly into this. It is moving also very fast, that space. To answer your question in ROE, if you remove the Goodwill, that's the way to look at it.
Yeah. Then it will come to 20%+ , I think, because it's almost INR 20 billion in Goodwill.
Okay. Okay.
That's correct.
Okay. I'll fall back in this piece. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you all for joining our FY25 earnings call. I look forward to keeping you updated on the latest development. Have a good evening.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect online.