Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the AvenuesAI Limited earnings conference call Q1 FY 2027, hosted by Go India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajat Gupta from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Anushka. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to AvenuesAI Limited earnings call to discuss the Q1 FY 2027 results. We have on the call with us today Mr. Vishal Mehta, Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Vishwas Patel, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Sunil Bhagat, Chief Financial Officer, and also Mr. B. Ravi, who is advising AvenuesAI on corporate and financial strategy as an independent consultant. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. I now request Mr. Vishal Mehta to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
At the outset, I want to let you know that we had strong revenues this quarter. Revenues increased by 109% year-over-year. We have been concentrating on building volumes and absolute profitability, and both have gone in the right direction with the profit after tax going up by 45%. I want to walk you through the AvenuesAI strategy, and we believe we have got four focus areas. One is payment, second is consumer, third is intelligence, and fourth is credit. And they increasingly reinforce one another. Payments is our foundation. CCAvenue moves money for merchants and continues to fund our investments in the next phase of our business. Consumer is Rediff. Rediff, Rediff One, RediffPay, Rediff TV, they give us direct relationship with consumers and business. Something most fintech companies simply may not have. Intelligence is Phronetic AI, which is now proposed to be merged with AvenuesAI.
We are putting AI on top of transactions, payments, and enterprise workflows to create new products and capabilities. Credit is our emerging distribution layer. Through strategic minority investments in regulated financial institutions, we can distribute credit without putting lending risk on AvenuesAI balance sheet. The important point is that these are no longer separate businesses. They are becoming one integrated platform. We have been building Rediff into a broader consumer and enterprise platform. RediffPay is progressing well as our UPI-based consumer payments platform. It will be out of COGS this month and into production. Rediff One is evolving into an operating platform for businesses, bringing together commerce, communication, compliance, and intelligence. Rediff TV, as in news, and Rediff Gurus, they add content and community. The opportunity is therefore much bigger than legacy Rediff business.
We are connecting Rediff's consumers and business with AvenuesAI learning from payments and AI capabilities and unlocking value from the ecosystem. AI is the next layer of payments. We believe the next generation of payments will not simply move money faster, it will enable machines to transact. Through Phronetic AI, we launched PayCentral, which we believe is India's first agentic payment platform based on Google's Agent Payments protocol. It enables AI agents to transact directly with one another without requiring a person to manually initiate every payment. Think of it simply, an AI agent understands the intent, finds the product or service, makes the decision and completes the payment. We call this Uber-izing payments, removing the friction between intent, commerce, and payment without replacing the merchant or the consumer. We believe this can now become a layer of digital commerce.
That is the reason why we have changed our name from Infibeam Avenues to AvenuesAI. We are no longer a payments company that does AI. We are building AI-first fintech infrastructure company that started with payments. Payments give us scale. Rediff gives us consumers and enterprises. AI gives us intelligence, and credit partnerships gives us access to financial products without balance sheet lending risk. This is the ecosystem we are building. The first quarter FY 2027, we actually made meaningful progress across each of these pillars. We received in-principle approval from Central Bank of the UAE for retail payment services, which is a Category III license for Avenues. UAE is already one of our strongest international markets. The license will allow us to broaden our customer reach and product suite and strengthen our long-term international payment strategy.
In India, RBI authorized AvenuesAI to set up payment system for issuance and operations of prepaid payment instruments. These approvals further strengthen our regulated payments infrastructure across India and international market. In terms of our asset-light expansion on credit, we have moved from strategy to execution and credit. We have progressed well in proposed investments of up to 2.5% in Ratnaafin Capital, which is an RBI-registered NBFC with a very strong SME lending franchisee. We also approved a strategic investment of up to 7% in Online PSB Loans, India's largest public sector-backed digital credit platform. Our model is deliberately asset-light. AvenuesAI provides AI payments infrastructure and merchant distribution. Regulated partners provide the balance sheet and underwriting. This allows us to participate in India's digital credit opportunity without taking lending risk onto our own balance sheet. As far as trust is concerned, on the intelligence side, we are building another important capability.
Enterprise AI that stays inside the enterprise. Through Phronetic AI, we are developing on-prem AI solutions using small language models, in specific about 1 billion to 10 billion parameter range. These models can be deployed, trained, monitored, and retained within the client's own infrastructure, with sensitive data remaining inside the organization. Our platforms are built specifically around this requirement. For enterprises, particularly those handling sensitive data, sovereignty, security, and controls, these model capabilities are becoming increasingly important. We believe this allows us to compete on trust, not simply on model size, and creates a new AI-native revenue opportunity beyond payments. The board of directors have also taken two significant decisions this quarter. First, Nueromind, which is our fully owned AI-based subsidiary, is being merged into AvenuesAI. This will give us synergies and seamless operations and lead to cost benefits and data consent also.
The second we are doing is a reverse split, which is a face value of share, which was INR 1 now is being increased to INR 10 per share. Consolidating the face value to INR 10 instead of INR 1 has a significant impact on how our shareholders will perceive us, as well as on the liquidity. I will now hand over the call to Vishwas to take you through the payments business. Vishwas, over to you.
Thank you, Vishal, and good evening, everyone. Vishal has laid down the strategy. Now let me bring it down to what we are seeing with merchants and consumers. Our strategy is simple. We are not trying to add another payment option. We are trying to become more deeply embedded in the merchant's workflow. A good example is the integration of CCAvenue payment gateway with Shiprocket Checkout. Shiprocket's D2C and SMB merchants can now access same-day settlement, international payments, low-cost EMI, and payment links across WhatsApp, SMS, Instagram, and email without managing separate payment relationships. We are applying the same model across other verticals. Our form builder has onboarded thousands of education institutions and event merchants. Our BillAvenue platform processes millions of utilities, mobile recharges, and bill payment transactions with agent-led adoption, driving deeper financial inclusion.
Our ResAvenue platform, that is our integrated reservations and payments platform, is scaling across thousands of hotels and connects with systems such as Opera, MICROS, Fidelio, property management systems, and leverages our AI-based tools to help them implement smart pricing and optimize occupancy rates. The principle is consistent. Make payments part of the workflow, create more value for the merchant, and the transaction volume follows. Our transaction processing volume for the quarter grew 74% year-on-year to INR 1,479 billion with continuous trend across utility payments, government payments, retail, B2B, and hospitality. Our performance reflects that. Strong execution in our core payments business, completion of a broad and defensible regulatory stack, measured progress in AI-driven commerce and consumer platforms, continued discipline around scale, profitability, and risk management.
We remain focused on building trust, compliant, and intelligent payment infrastructure at scale while selectively investing in platforms that extend the long-term growth runway. On the consumer side, RediffPay will continue to scale as a UPI platform once it has passed the COG stage. We see RediffPay as a genuine second leg of the payment business, bringing consumer transactions increasingly onto our own payment rails. Rediff One is also expanding beyond email and communication into commerce, compliance, and intelligence, making it an operating platform for businesses. On embedded lending, our merchant network is becoming the distribution layer. As Ratnaafin and OPL progress towards closing, we expect merchant financing, checkout financing, and working capital products to become available across the CCAvenue ecosystem with lending risk remaining with our regulated partners. With that, I hand over to Sunil Bhai for the financial performance. Over to you, Sunil .
Thank you, Vishwas sir, and good evening, everyone. Let me start with the key quarter one FY 2027 numbers. On a consolidated basis, our gross revenue from operations stood at INR 2,680 crore, which is up 109% year-on-year. Our net revenue stood at INR 147 crore, marginally down by 3%. Our EBITDA, excluding other income, stood at INR 100 crore, representing 41% increase year-over-year. Our profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 85 crore, which is up 45% year-on-year. This performance builds on the strong full financial year 2026 trajectory, where our gross revenue was INR 8,116 crore, which is up 103%. Our net revenue was Full year, INR 603 crore, which is up 15%, and PAT was INR 295 crore, up 25%.
So far as our FY 2027 outlook is concerned, our company expects FY 2027 consolidated revenue to be in the range of INR 11,000 crore to INR 13,000 crore. That is growth of around 35% and above, and also expects the FY 2027 EPS to be in the range of INR 8.75 to INR 9.5 per share, which is based on the proposed post-corporate action face value of rupees 10 per share. Our cost base remains front-loaded as we invest in AI infrastructure, international expansion, and our new financial services capabilities. We are therefore not building for a short-term margin spike. We are building for a structurally stronger and more scalable margin profile through FY 2027 and FY 2028 as these businesses begin to compound. With this, I will now hand over call for Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Amish Kanani from Knowise Investment Managers. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Congrats on a good growth. Sir, we had filed for this DRHP of Rediff, and I understand it was confidential. Last quarter also, I had asked this question. But if you can give us, one, the progress on the same, and we were more worried about this corporate action that we are taking, whether that could impact our timing of the issue. Because, one, if you can just remind us of this reason for this corporate action. Was it so critical and whether that impacts our timeline for Rediff.com? Because I understand the valuation of our company would really be unlocked if Rediff has a separate way of valuation because the data is also not coming out then in total. So one, if you can address that.
Sure. This is Vishal here. Basically, we don't see any impact of the corporate action on the filing of Rediff.com. They're two separate events. The corporate action is, to my mind, just increasing the face value of the share from INR 1 to INR 10. That applies to the shareholders of AvenuesAI.
Sir, I mean the merger of that other subsidiary that we are merging with AvenuesAI. I didn't put on together.
Correct. The fully owned subsidiary of the company is merged into the parent. That has no bearing to the shareholders of AvenuesAI. Basically, it's 100% subsidiary of AvenuesAI. The proposed corporate action that we have suggested is to merge the fully owned subsidiary, which was undertaking the work of AI models, AI frameworks, and all the opportunities related to that. We believe that if we bring that company directly as part of AvenuesAI, then the AI adoption will grow much faster. We've also recently in our press release mentioned that we plan to build out transaction intelligence cores, and many more. With that kind of, you see, in AI, data becomes extremely critical and important, consented data. What we believe in is that if it becomes part of the main entity, then the growth opportunities and trajectories are significantly more.
We don't believe that this corporate action of merging the subsidiary into parent has any bearing to the proposed filing of Rediff.
Any update there, or it's too early to speak on that?
It's slightly early to directly talk about it. But yeah, I think that we followed the due process and you can see some updates which are there on the SEBI website.
Sure, sir. Sir,
Yeah.
This PayCentral thing that we are doing, if you can give us update on how's the commercial traction there in terms of merchant onboarding. A related question there, sir, is, this last week was all over place about MDR. I understand two quarter back, I had asked you this question, if and when the MDR comes, whether it will be a beneficiary. You did mention it will be a beneficiary to us. The only concern that now in the public domain is being discussed is that the large payment providers will get a larger share of the MDR, and hence maybe the market gets consolidated. Given our market share being relatively on a lower side, would it be an opportunity or a threat in that context, sir?
Vishwas, you want to take the MDR first?
Yeah. MDR UPI is significantly growing on our base. Today, almost 22% of our transactions are on UPI. Any kind of monetization on that UPI will add additional revenue definitely to our platform. Right now, as we stand, the act has been passed by the Lok Sabha. It still awaits Rajya Sabha and still awaits president's approval and then the gazette, and then we will know what kind of pricing and monetization that NPCI and RBI is allowing to be done. We know for sure that it's going to be on big merchants and for higher-value transactions. But once the final rates come in, then maybe we'll be able to proper gauge what kind of revenue can be generated. As far as threat is concerned, there's no threat as per se. There are options like UPI, which runs deeply across all kind of payments that happen.
There is something for everybody in the ecosystem to gain out of it. There is no consolidation on the acquiring side. On the issuing side, yes, where a lot of TPAPs have some base. On the acquiring side, on the online acquiring side, it is quite evenly spread out. We do have a significant 8%-10% share of the overall market. Let us see. As and when monetization happen, it will be good only. It is an endeavor that we ourselves as a company and myself have been working on it to get that monetization bit going for the last couple of years. Finally it is stockpiling. Let us see.
Sure, sir. Congratulations on that. Sir, any update on the merchant onboarding and PayCentral, how are we kind of progressing?
It is early days still. In other words, the protocol is new. I think internationally it is growing a little bit faster than in India. I think the intent protocol is actually working fairly well. I think as far as using AI for merchant onboarding and productivity, there are three things that typically you can do with this. One is you can actually increase productivity significantly, which is AI is actually complementing the human in terms of getting productivity through. I think there we have made massive amounts of progress. Second is replacing humans. I think it is dystopian, but it is not something you can rule out. In other words, if you take it further, that particular opportunity can replace a human actually in the loop. Then the third thing is actually AI will end up doing things that you could technically not do in the past.
For example, reconciliation of every single transaction as an audit. I do not think that from that perspective, it was possible in the past. You could do sampling, you could do many more, but now you can. Just giving you an example of what you could do now. We think that all these three things are happening as we speak. As far as consumers opting to actually transact using agents, that is still in the early phases.
Sure. Sir, last question before I fall back in the queue. This quarter, we were saying that we were not chasing gross revenue, top-line growth, but a net revenue. Unfortunately, that number has not grown, and still we have been able to increase our operating profit, which seems to be coming more from compressing the expense line item. If you can explain what is happening there, and what is the trend like? Should we be focusing more on gross revenue or net revenue? Because the guidance also, I think we have given it in terms of gross.
Yeah, you should focus on net revenue, in our opinion, because that is the one which will perhaps give you the best indications in terms of how the company is progressing. There are certain specifics that do take up, including the ones that we talked about, which is distribution of credit and so on and so forth, and that should all pour back directly into the net revenue. We think that that is something that one should definitely take a look at. Gross revenue may fluctuate based on mix and other specifics.
Sure, sir. The operating revenue margins are increasing more from the expense line item, right, sir?
Yes, that's right.
Sure.
Yeah.
Sure. All the best. Thanks. All the best.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Deepesh from Maanya Finance. Please proceed.
Hi, am I audible? Hello.
Yes, you are.
Okay.
Yeah.
On the enterprise SLM PrivateGPT, there's a new unproven line competing against the well-capitalized global players like OpenAI, Anthropic. What is the go-to-market strategy or the target customer and the expected revenue contribution timeline?
We find that SLMs are very good at solving specific problems. A lot of it is actually, if you come to think of it and if you try it out, you can increase, I mean, you must be user of many of the LLMs, but if you keep on prompting, prompting, you can actually get much better results. In this particular instance, what you do is you take data which is specific to a particular company, you vectorize it, you build out knowledge graphs on top of it, SLMs, and then some application layers.
We find that enterprises like where data is critical, financial institutions, critical operations in some ways, they would all want this kind of a setup, which is SLM-driven. I think the opportunity is significantly large. It is still in early phases. I think it actually reduces the token cost also significantly. What we realize is that many of these companies, they can solve a lot of problems building workflows. You do not even have to use tokens and then perhaps optimizing it using SLMs, and that becomes specific to that particular setup. We think that, how do we productize it is the bigger opportunity. If we are able to give some kind of a DTx and something which enterprises can start utilizing, it becomes valuable.
In terms of impact to our business is concerned, I think it is about anywhere from 9- 18 months out, where you will start seeing some good impact, we believe.
Right. What is the exposure on the token which uses the LLMs? What will be at risk on the token prices, and how has been the trend of the token prices right now for us?
Token is slightly inflationary, you know that. In other words, there is lots of optimizations that one can do in that area, in that space. Then there is new stuff happening on a daily basis. I think, for us, and typically infrastructure tokens and so on and so forth, for our internal use, of course we would spend, but for the ones that we give to our clients would actually end up paying that. We pass on the cost. It is a pass-through for us, typically speaking. If you think about SLMs and if you have this kind of a fabric, then token cost falls by about one-tenth of what you would typically see because the data is actually somewhat air-gapped. It is not going out. It is within the premises. The utilization and so on and so forth is significantly improved, with this particular setup.
The way we see the opportunity is that, for critical infrastructure, for financial data, for many others, the utilization of LLM will be limited because of the data security concerns. It will move towards the SLM framework, and that is what most companies would end up working on. That is the opportunity that we believe will perhaps work as well, but if we can actually productize it is even bigger.
Right. About RediffPay, now still pre-launch, and the UAE and RBI licenses only newly received. How much of the FY 2027 growth guidance is already assumed, and the contribution from these unlaunched or newly launched services, versus being a pure-core CCAvenue tool?
I think we've not assumed much from RediffPay because it's a UPI payment option. So for FY 2027 guidance, we have not assumed meaningful contribution from that, if it makes sense to you.
Right. As the previous participant said that we are planning to list Rediff as a separate entity. What has the revenues, and will we list Rediff.com as an AI provider, or we will list it as more of RediffPay and very similar to the Paytms of the world?
Rediff.com has three large opportunities. One is Rediff One, which is the enterprise side of the business, which has emails, commerce, in some ways, CRM, HRMS, ERP. Think of it as something similar to Zoho One in some ways. But I think that that's one opportunity that Rediff.com will go after. Second is RediffPay, which is what you mentioned, which is more like the UPI payment with fintech opportunities, wealth management and many others. And the third opportunity is, we describe as content and Rediff TV, which is not the linear TV that we talk about. It's streaming with a lot of content. So we think that it is not going to be the legacy-only business. It will be AI-enabled, new version of what we think consumers and business will connect into.
How is it going to be different from? Sorry, I'm sure you wanted to add, but how is it going to be different to our existing company?
That is consumer-facing payments. This is acquiring is in CCAvenue. Merchant acquiring is the AvenuesAI will focus on the B2C payments, consumers paying to businesses. Rediff is going to focus on the consumer side of payments. You see, payments is two different elements. Today, for example, a consumer does not download a CCAvenue app and utilize the app. They will go to the merchant where they will find their payment options, and they will pay using CCAvenue. We are on the business side, on the acquiring side. We are not on the consumer side. Rediff.com is on the consumer side.
Right. What about the AI? You have excellently explained how the payment module will be from B2C and with AvenuesAI, B2B. What about the AI part of our company? Will that entirely go to Rediff?
AI is completely as part of AvenuesAI. Phronetic AI is being merged into AvenuesAI, which is Nueromind as a subsidiary, which is 100% subsidiary, is merged into AvenuesAI now. The entire AI vertical of people and everyone else will be part of AvenuesAI.
Great. Thank you so much, guys, and all the very best.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of [Gauri Shankar Dalal] from [Creator Capital]. Please proceed.
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Yes.
Hello. Yeah. Sir, a couple of queries I had. First of all, data margins have expanded sharply to around of net revenue, what is year ago. So what will be the sustainable margins, post all the investments into AI and the platforms has been done?
We've given guidance for the year, this year. If you look at the press release and our guidance, we're projecting revenues to come in between INR 11,000 crores to INR 13,000 crores and earnings per share from INR 8.75 to INR 9.50. That is net of the capital that has been allocated to be spending on AI and platforms. I think that we've adopted the approach of ensuring that we are not chasing the short-term profitability. We are looking at the long-term impact, but we're going to track and monitor what happens in the short term very sharply. We have a slightly disciplined approach, and we have put certain guardrails. But yeah, we would definitely be increasing our intent to forward invest in AI, and that will continue on.
Okay.
I think as far as the EBITDA for the quarter is concerned and next quarters, in the full year, we've given the guidance so you can actually be able to look at whatever EBITDA margin has been compared to PAT and come up with the EBITDA versions.
Okay. Apart from this, as you have mentioned, the growth revenue target, for the entire financial year, it has been increased about 30%-60%, from INR 8,000 crores approximately to INR 11,000-INR 13,000 crores. But the EPS is flat. The guidance in the EPS part is flat. Considering the PAT from the 57%, the EPS should also have grown by around 20% or so. Why the EPS is flat in the guidance that you have shared?
Yeah. One thing that we think we want to continue on is, we've got a philosophy, and it's pretty simple, that we want to protect our earnings of the core business, and we do want to forward invest incremental cash generation to build the business of tomorrow, which is actually in the AI and other areas. We expect the core business to remain strong and profitable and generate increasing operating accruals. We believe that beyond a certain amount, the incremental capacity will be selectively reinvested into AI, AvenuesAI Transaction Intelligence Score and other high conviction growth opportunities that we have. If you think about our philosophy and our approach, the thing is that we want to grow the core. We want to generate incremental accruals. We want to reinvest selectively in AI.
We want to build out on new revenue streams, and then we want to compound earnings over time. You're right. I think that we believe that additional accruals that come in as part of our build-out will be reinvested back. We want to think about. If you think about our ambition from 2027 to 2029, it's not simply about maximizing earnings. It is to emerge at the end of the period with both a very strong earnings base and a significantly large AI-led business. You can expect that we'll invest that incremental accruals back into the business where we have very high conviction.
Okay. Got it.
It's a conscious decision that we want to compound today's profitability while investing in the business that can drive tomorrow's growth.
Sure. Got it. Apart from this, one more query. The net revenue has declined around 2% year-over-year and 1% quarter-over-quarter. Can you give us some reasons in the favor about the net revenue it has received?
Yeah. Typically, first quarter is a slightly low quarter. Second, third quarter is slightly better because of festival seasons and others. We believe that as more and more transactions happen through our platform, we have slightly compression as far as our margins are concerned. If you look at our take rates, they've compressed slightly, and that has impacted our net revenue. But we believe as we build out other opportunities, which is somewhat credit-based distribution, many others, that we should be able to pick up. We remain slightly appropriately conservative in terms of how we think through this. But yeah, you're right. I think it's a combination of payments being a competitive business. Second, our aspiration to grow payments and increase the core profitability and pull in volumes.
Third is, we think that with that, we can build out a lot of other revenue streams, which potentially will offset and help us increase our margins in the medium to long term.
Right. Got it.
Vishal, can I come in? Vishal, can I just come in? Gauri, I would also like to add one thing. If you notice, though the Net Revenue may be a slight flattish or slightly gone down, the EBITDA has gone up by 41%, and the EBITDA percentages have gone because 47% in year-over-year in Q1 FY 2026 is now 68%. So concentration has been on improving the absolute profitability and the margins therein, based on the gross revenues and the take rates, not necessarily on the Net Revenue. That is a positive part of the entire results.
Yeah, that is right. But the only issue in this was that there is a lot of investments into AI automation and all. That is why the EBITDA margins and all, we are not able to really figure out what is the ideal sustainable EBITDA margins going forward, excluding all the AI investments.
The guardrails that you can establish is about 15%. That's like the guardrails, if you ask me. We always want to have guardrails, which is we never want to go below that certain amount. Rather than going into how much EBITDA we can improve and so on and so forth, we want to set up certain guardrails that enable us to ensure that we continue investing into our future and maintain certain profitability in our core.
Right. Sure. But just a.
It's not a target, it's just a guardrail.
Sure. Just a last question. The e-commerce platform business was flat last quarter, has stacked slightly higher and a diagonal on a high margin revenue. When will the promised platform AI rewards will show up in the growth numbers? What about the growth of this platform business?
We expect that. We are investing quite a bit in that area, and some meaningful results should start showing up in Q3 timeframe. You can expect that maybe some movement will start in the Q3, Q4 timeframe for us in that space.
Sure. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Have a good day.
Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of [Dinesh Kumar] from [Covered Investment]. Please proceed.
Hello. Am I audible, ma'am?
Yes.
Hello. Audible, sir. Thank you. Sir, I wanted to reflect on that we have on Rediff IPO timeline, sir. One, second on, what kind of AI investment or AI infrastructure are we building for next, like you have guided for 2027, 2029. We are focusing on the more of our business. What kind of AI infrastructure are we building upon, sir? What kind of returns on net basis we see in EBITDA and PAT margins are we looking forward?
I will take the second question. I think, as far as the AI part is concerned, AI is a very large topic. We want to work on the, and keep on keeping our head straight in terms of not just investing in AI, but we want to actually make sure that there is a investment and harvesting cycle as well. Our thesis in this is that there is this whole infrastructure-related AI investments, which is not what we want to pursue, as far as data centers and so on and so forth is concerned. It is high, huge amounts of CapEx and returns over a period of time. That is not what the company wants to pursue at the moment. We may invest selectively in smaller capacities, but not the large ones. That is one.
As far as the. We have recently, in our release, mentioned that we want to build out Transaction Intelligence Score, and think of it as, in some ways, alternative risk score. It is not a replacement to any of these scores, but it is actually more about how you do. We start with transactions. We have universe of transactions. That is our biggest advantage. We have frequency, transaction value, merchant category, tickets, repeat purchase, refunds, chargebacks, you name it. We want to be able to evaluate using AI, how does this business behave financially, or how does this person behave financially. For that, you need to create this whole financial behavior graph, which is build out graph for person, device, bank accounts, merchant transactions, refunds, and the whole payment behavior. Once you do that, you can build out certain reliability scores.
I think these are the ones which we want to pursue, which is slightly more applied in nature. You can think of it as like an SLM, a small language model. Once you apply them, then there is a monetization, because if it is meaningful and it gives you good insights in terms of how the merchant or the individual performs, then perhaps there is a score and there could also be an identity and a fraud score associated with some things, which is meaningful for us. That gives you some kind of an indication on how we can monetize on it. Then consented external financial data that can potentially be part of the system with training data set. We are building out all these predictive models.
You have logistics regression with gradient boosting, with neural models and graphs and LLMs enhanced, with giving you some indication of what is the probability of certain activities. We think that these kinds of things will be highly interesting, and we have a huge edge over it because none of the LLMs can actually replicate what we can do. They do not have the data. They will never have the data as well. We think that becomes a differentiator in our opinion on how we should differentiate because then if you build out guardrails and explanation layers and create some kind of a version of what it would look like, then it becomes very meaningful.
I am just giving you a perspective of how we think through AI, not necessarily. What we will not do is we will not invest into hundreds of megawatts of data center infrastructure. We may selectively go and invest into smaller data center capabilities. Number two, we will work on application layers, SLMs, which potentially enable us to assimilate all this information and build out. That is the thesis that we carry. I hope this helps you and answers your question.
Okay.
Yeah.
Recently, we have seen a Lok Sabha passage of the UPI MDR that will open the door to monetization of high merchant payment flows, combined with Rediff's consumer ecosystem and international licenses. The strategic engine will not crash. What output benefit or output kind of thing?
Slightly sorry, I am not able to hear the question properly.
Yeah. As it should be. UPI MDR bill is one of the points of discussion in the Lok Sabha. What kind of results or benefits are we expecting from such kind of enactment?
I will tell you, I think it is still early days, like Vishwas mentioned. There are certain guidelines that are expected to come in. Consumer to consumer, there is no MDR. To businesses, there will be an MDR. It is yet to be ascertained what it will end up looking like. I think that there is a benefit for both CCAvenue and RediffPay if that materializes. The extent to which it will benefit, we do not know. It is also based on a competitive scenario. In other words, there are many large incumbents, many who can actually subsidize payments. So we have to see what is the competitive landscape, what is the regulation end up looking like. But one thing we know is that, yeah, it will be meaningfully positive. It cannot be.
Sure.
It is not going to be trivial. Yeah.
Okay. Sir, in the last quarter, we had mentioned that we are targeting some INR 50 crores to INR 500 crores of PAT. What kind of timeline are we looking for that kind of estimation? Second, sir, promoter hold also. We have not seen a substantial holding, and there is no sign of any increment. Can you just give us a timeline or that is when promoters are willing to participate in the run or participate in the equity? These two questions, sir.
Sure. The promoters are the long-term investors, so that much I can tell you. I think whatever is material information out there is what is already out there in the open. But yeah, we are long-term, as far as the promoters are concerned. In terms of the other question on PAT, I think one decision that you can count on us is that we are not going to look at just a spike in one-time set up. We want to have a Theoretically, it's like a build-out. Our investments in AI and some of the forward-looking things, we would rather invest in that and build out a long-term, sustainable vision for the company. We will not be looking at short-term spike in profitability, but we would rather keep on investing in the conscious capital allocation decision.
We want to focus on EPS and make sure that there's guardrails, and we want to keep on investing in our future. Three years ago, we had made the call that we want to reach to INR 1 billion in revenues. We made that call somewhere in 2023, 2024, and I think we are there, and we said in three years, we've reached INR 1 billion in revenue. So we've been fortunate to get there. I think now we believe that we want to continue building out and investing into the future. If we don't, then I think we won't have a long-term. We think that if we keep that disciplined approach to capital allocation and put guardrails, then we can build out something very meaningful and maximize the three-year earnings. So I think, not the immediate quarter and the immediate year earnings.
We have given guidance of EPS, which you could follow for this year. But we want to look at what the company should look like three years from now, and that is what we want to keep on investing into.
Yes, sir. Sir, the last question. What are the good things which are being planned out and have been executed or have happened during the previous year, 2024 cycle, if it is? What are the some things that you had planned out which didn't go well? So can you just mention something which was planned out and which went well and something which was planned out and didn't go the way you wanted it to go? I think a few business decisions or just a few points.
Yeah. I think we could have expanded internationally more last year. I think given the macroeconomics, it has had an impact. I think that we would have liked to be more aggressive in terms of our international growth, something that we would like to take up this year. That is one. I think we believe we can do a lot more in the AI setup. We could have made certain larger investments to get to market and do things faster. We think that we can still continue doing that. I think lots of things are changing in that, but again, we think we could have done that better. Third is, we should have worked more on ensuring that we can keep on building out the net take rates.
There, the incremental revenue from other activities that we have picked up should somewhat complement what we are doing in terms of going after growth. There is a slight latency because a lot of these investments are upfront. These are the things we think we could have improved. What we did well, I think we have done fairly well in growth and actually build out of some of the latest systems and activities and being able to work on get the right folks to build out and also incremental productivity that we get using AI. I think our disciplined approach is what worked for us.
Okay. The last one, what is our customer structure, sir? Our top five clients contribute how much to the revenue, and are we planning to increase it, or is it getting contracted and distributed more on, are they remaining apart from this side? What is your concentration and what kind of diversification or what kind of strategy are we looking towards our top five or top 10 contributors for revenue?
Yeah. You will not see CCAvenue on Amazon or some of the large merchants. If you transact online, you will see it in airlines and a few others, but not on the likes of Quick Commerce and Amazon others. We think that going after the larger client base should be our strategy. We want to go as horizontal as possible, because when you start thinking about even credit scores and many others and such alternative on the thin file merchants, how do you enable, and these transactions are going to give you a lot more information about them than any other thing. We think that going after a larger base should be our approach as we move forward. Larger clients, I think when we grow internationally, we want to go after large clients. Our domestic approach is slightly different compared to international.
In international because the size and scale of the digital industry is so large. If you look at U.S., most of the transactions are digital in nature. I think, there we would like to work on those larger clients and larger opportunities. I think in India also, there will always be occasionally good clients that come our way, which is where if we are able to add value and we are able to grow, then I think we'll certainly. India is super competitive as you can tell. We think that this thing will continue on. If you look at the merchant profile, we've actually mentioned several of the marquee clients in one of the slides in our presentation, so you can refer to that as well.
Okay. That is all from my side sir. Thank you and all the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of [Pramod] from MyInvestBuddy. Please proceed.
Hi. Just a small question. How will you be different from Apple Pay or like PayPal in the U.S.?
Okay. I will take that. Yes. Apple Pay is more on the customer side on the phone where they tokenize their card and they use to pay the merchant. Just an enabling form factor for doing a transaction, and their revenues will be coming from the issuing side of the bank who has issued the cards. We are on the acquiring side, as far as CCAvenue is concerned, where we onboard merchants and other things. Like if you have seen in UAE and in India also, we have gone live with Apple Pay, where we enable the integration and the platform and the systems to the merchant, to enable them to collect their customers to pay through their Apple Pay. Apple Pay is on the issuing side, which is just a form factor to enable customers to pay, while we are on the acquiring side.
We as hundreds of different options and different form factors, we do allow Apple Pay, Samsung Pay in our systems in India and UAE, to accept payments on our platform. Is it clear?
Got it. Another question is on the war side. How has the war impacted our revenues, and what percentage of our growth come from increase in the currency appreciation and what percentage other way?
See, I think from a macroeconomic perspective, potentially some growth in the Middle East would have been impacted as a result of the macroeconomic impact should have been there. We do not see it too much though. It is there for sure. But we think that should come back. People are going to pay utility bills and some travel will be impacted. But other than that, there is a local industry, local commerce, local people, so that should continue on. Anyone who has to pay rent, they have to pay rent and so on and so forth. Internationally, we operate UAE, Saudi. They are two large areas that we think we can focus on, and that would definitely have an impact. But again, like I said, we think it is short term, it is not long term. So that will have some impact.
As far as the currency and so on and so forth is concerned, there is no material impact as much. So we do not see that as a material impact yet. But we do believe, because, see, I think that we do have aspirations to build out U.S. this year. And that is where we will see maybe that question slightly becomes slightly more relevant.
Got it, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the good set of numbers.
Thank you. Due to time constraints, we take that as the last question for the day and would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thanks all for joining the call and looking forward to keeping you updated on our progress. Thanks again.
Thank you all.
Thank you.
Thank you.
On behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.