Good day. Welcome to the Q4 FY 2023 Conference Call of KPI Green Energy Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Faruk Patel, Chairman and Managing Director of KPI Green Energy Limited. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ernest. I'm Faruk. Good evening, everyone. I welcome you all to the Fourth Quarter and FY 2023 Investor Call of KPI Green Energy Limited. The board of KPI Green Energy Limited on 26th May, 2023, approved the company's financial results for the fourth quarter and for the year 2022-2023. Our results and updated presentation have been sent to the stock exchange and have also been uploaded on the company's website. We will discuss the operation of the company on the consolidated basis. The company reported an YoY growth of 179% from INR 231.61 crores to INR 647.03 crores. It also registered a quarterly growth from INR 179.66 crore to INR 184.41 crore as compared to quarter three of financial year 2022-2023.
The year, company has registered the highest ever that, which is a three-digit number at INR 109.66 crore. The company also has commissioned its first hybrid IPP project comprising of 16.1 MW wind, + 10 MW solar in March 2023. Together with this hybrid IPP project, the company up to March 2023, has energized a cumulative capacity of 137+ MW, that's under CPP 175+ MW, thereby totally totaling to 312+ MW. The company made a history by commissioning a seven turbine under the hybrid policy in South Gujarat that has resulted in opening of new markets for the wind energy in South Gujarat. I ask Mr. Salim Yahoo, our CFO, to brief you on the key highlights of the financials for the year 2023. Salim, please.
Thank you, sir. Thank you for your insight on the company. As stated by our MD, Mr. Faruk Patel, the company reported a year-on-year growth of 139% from INR 231.61 crores to INR 647.03 crores, and it also registered quarterly growth from INR 179.66 crores to INR 184.41 crores, as compared to the Q3 of FY 2022-2023. The year-on-year EBITDA grew by 91% from INR 110.35 crores to INR 211.25 crores, whereas the EBITDA margin moved from 47.6% to 32.65%, which is primarily attributed to the change in the prevailing mix. The year-on-year consolidated EBIT improved by 139% from INR 59.36 crores to INR 141.87 crore.
Subsequently, I also grew from INR 43.25 crores to INR 109.66 crores. Since we have two segments and in segment wise, if I go, under the IPP segment, the company has energized totally 36+ MW, which includes our hybrid project of 10 MW, with the cumulative consolidated capacity energized under IPP segment, as at the end of FY 2022-2023, at 137 MW. The 26.1 MW hybrid IPP project has been capitalized in this quarter for the Q4 of FY 2022-2023, and the revenue for the same shall start to accrue in FY 2023-2024 onwards. During the year FY 2022-2023, on consolidated basis, under the CPP segment, the company has energized total 111 MW.
It includes some hybrid projects also, with a cumulative consolidated capacity energized under CPP segment, as at the end of the FY 2022-2023, at 175+ MW. Our IPP orders in hand at currently is around 42 MW, whereas the CPP orders that we have in hand is around 74 MW, which includes hybrid. The year-on-year consolidated sales of captive projects grew by 225% from INR 168.39 crores to INR 547.97 crores. INR 547.97 crores. That's under the IPP segment grew by 64% from INR 57.69 crores to INR 94.78 crores. The issue of revenue mix between CPP and IPP has changed from 75 is to 25 in FY 2022 to 85 is to 15.
Which is led to the overall led to the change in the overall margin. Now, if you look at the operational cash flow, the net consolidated cash generated from the operating activities grew substantially by 56%, from INR 102.38 crore to INR 159.38 crore. Moving on to the CapEx part, the company has incurred CapEx amounting to INR 366.27 crore during the FY 2022-2023, towards the hybrid and solar IPP of 36 MW, including the land parcels and infrastructure. The CapEx was funded through a combination of debt and internal accruals, with a debt of INR 159.75 crore and internal accruals of INR 106 crore.
The CapEx has been incurred by delicately balancing between the debt and equity, which is around two to one, and which we are consciously, we try to maintain the debt equity at a healthy level. These are the brief synopsis of our financial highlights. I'd like to ask the moderator to open the line for the question- and- answer.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question should press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from the line of Piyush Mehta from Caprize Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, everyone. Am I audible?
Yes, yes, please. You can go ahead.
First of all, congratulations for a good FY 2023, and thanks for taking the question. I have a few basic questions. First one is, what is the average realization for the CPP projects per MW?
Okay. Any other question or answer?
I'll ask one, if you could just answer. I have two more, but.
Okay. Our average realization for CPP project is around INR 4.25 crore-INR 4.50 crore per megawatt.
Okay. Okay. In terms of, when we compare to this with an IPP project per megawatt, what is the average cost of putting up an IPP project? When you do that, does it also include the land cost or you exclude that from it?
You want to understand the average level for the land cost?
The CPP is still simpler.
Okay, for the CPP or IPP you are asking about, right?
I think CPP is still simpler to understand in terms of the average cost, but when it comes to IPP, it is not as simple.
Right, I understand that. Actually, you need to understand that the cost of project for an IPP depends on multiple factors. You know, it includes the size of the project, the transmission voltage, whether it is 7 kV or kV, and the infrastructure cost, which is the transmission and the, you know, infrastructure around the plant. I mean, approximately cost ranges between INR 3.75 per megawatt to INR 4.10 kind of a cost per megawatt f or an IPP.
Okay. Okay. What is, in terms of when you mentioned, whether it's transmission, voltage and all, what is the range, that we offer here?
It, it is very difficult to... You know, transition lines, we offer in 11 kV and 66 kV. These are the two-
Okay.
Transition, structures that we use.
Okay. Okay. This previously also, so in terms of the average cost of land, which is in your books...
Mm-hmm.
What is that? How is it, like, how has it changed over FY 2022 to FY 2023?
If you look at our books, you know, the current capitalization of land in our books on consolidation around INR 82.80 crore, okay? Which is unique on the purchase price, which is what we are calculating, okay?
Okay.
All together it will, the current valuation of the land would go around INR 700 crores.
INR 700?
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. That's, that's from my end. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you, Piyush.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr. Sudhir Behera from Right Time Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir, and hearty congratulations for producing stupendous results quarter after quarter, and showing very healthy growth quarter after quarter. Congrats.
Thank you. Thank you for your appreciation.
Sir, I have three questions. First question, as of March, we have completed IPP of 137 MW, and CPP of 175 MW. What is the target for FY 2024, that means current year, for IPP as well as CPP? That is my first question.
Okay. If you look at, you know, we have given a similar results year on year, if you look at the market conditions and everything, at the same time, the growing economy, we have minimum target of growth of 50%-60% in both the segments. That is the minimum I would like to highlight, and there is no ceiling to that. I mean, if, at the end, if we get a better deals and the funding, at the same time, we can add to that on the IPP side at all, also on the CPP side. Oh, great! 50% growth in terms of megawatt, right? If we take the 50% growth in CPP, but that doesn't match with other. We have only 74 MW.
50%, see 50%-60% top line growth, I'm talking about. Top line growth megawatt . I might add, somewhere between 25 MW-50 MW this year, minimum. Going forward, also we'll add to that. You see, as you are aware, that our target is that by 2025, we have to touch 1,000 MW, that's 1 GW. Secondly, we will match that, but on conservative side, we will grow 50%-60% over. Great. 50%-60%. I already said the minimum, we will grow 50%-60% for the current financial year, right? That sounds very- In IPP, we don't have that much of order book. Do you expect now the orders to come? Yes, sir. See, at present, I have CPP order book.
You must have seen the presentation at 74 + 35, we have added new, which is uploaded on the stock exchange also. All together we have 109 MW. If I calculate that into around INR 420 crores -INR 430 crores in the order book. In and as on date, there are a lot of orders which are in the pipeline, which we expect them to finalize within the next couple of months. Those will also get added. Okay. You are expecting good orders book to flow in, correct? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Right now I'm sitting on INR 4.25-INR 4.50 kind of order book in CPP basis. Right. Sir, my second question is, suppose our target is 1 GW, right, by 2025.
250 of IPP and 750 of CPP. We are going to complete that. What would be our annuity per year of IPP as well as O&M from CPP? If we are able to complete 250 of IPP and 750 of CPP, what can be our longer perspective of the company? Right, sir. You want to understand the annuity on the CPP side and the IPP power generator. That also is an annuity income, right? Let me just give you a little perspective on the CPP side. CPP side, if I put 1 MW, I get annuity income of O&M leaves of INR 10 lakhs. Great. You can calculate 1,000 MW, you automatically can calculate into INR 100 crores. Right. Additional. 750 orders. INR 750 crores.
Yeah, I love it. INR 75 crore rupees per annum. Per annum. We will be earning on O&M from the CPP. With the growth of % year on year on year. All together, we've been somewhere around INR 340 crore-INR 350 crore rupees per 10 year as an annuity income for the 25 years. IPP, as you know, we are reaching to 50. Today we have reached 100 and almost per whole year revenue from the IPP since last 10. It's going to be increased to 250 by the end of 250 MW. Means INR 250 crore rupees from the IPP and INR 75 crore rupees you can say from the CPP, which will be the average revenue for annuity income, at least 325 per annum.
It will be last on 25 years, and that EBITDA will be 74%. That's the main thing which we are already highlighting, that 74% out of 50/50, that we can calculate almost about 2,500. Great. Great. That sounds very good, sir. Congratulations again, and all the best for the future.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niket Shah from SM Invest. Please go ahead.
Hello? Hello, am I audible?
Yes, yes, you are audible.
Yeah. Hi. My first question is, what is the current status of the policy for IPP as of now? Are we under the open access policy or and what is the status for hybrid policy right now?
Niket, right? Niket.
Yeah.
Current solar policy is, you know, valid up to 31st December 2025. We are into open access policy, this policy is valid. The current hybrid policy shall be can expire on 18th of June this year. We expect a better policy to be rolled out with extended benefits.
Oh, okay. Okay. Do we get better EBITDA margins under the hybrid compared to the regular one? What's the difference between the both in quantum?
See, there are certain benefits under the hybrid policy. You know, like, monthly banking, transmission cost is charged only for the heat generator. For example, if there is wind and solar, the transmission charges, the wind generator, it will be charged only for that. There are other benefits, like, you know, you have a higher PLF when it comes to wind. This results in a better EBITDA compared to the pure solar project in case of IPP project. Where the power generation of the high IPP project commissioned in FY 2023, which we have done right now, has been booked in the revenue of FY 2023-2024. Okay? Which will not be seen this year, in this year's finances, because the projects were completed in the last quarter.
Okay. Okay. Our current break off between CPP, IPP is 80 by 15. Are we going to stay at 10% or, we'll again move?
See, you need to understand that the IPP projects are capital intensive. You know, the revenue mix would depend upon various factors. You know, we need to maintain a healthy leverage ratio so that doesn't hamper my ratings also. There is a tax planning aspect to that also. There should be sufficient free cash flows also. We expect the mix to be some more right on a similar line. As we see that, you know, the cash flows are generated more, then we can increase more of IPP, and thus the revenue will be a little bit similar. Not too much different, but it will be in the similar range.
Okay. Okay. Oh, thank you. I will join back in the queue.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anurag Roonwal from Moneybee Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Hi.
Thank you, Anurag.
Yeah. Sir, my question is actually, I wanted to understand the differentiation between solar, wind and hybrid in terms of, you know, the PLFs that we get from these plants, the CapEx that is incurred, and you know, what is the payback period for these projects? So we can sort of highlight between the these three kind of projects.
See, you know, solar PLF, when it is on the AC side, it is around 26.30. Okay? Around that we have seen in the last year. Now, wind we have done this time, but we expect the wind PLF is around 36%, you know?
Okay. In hybrid projects?
See, hybrid is, you know, if you calculate both, it's around 48%.
You need to take the weighted average of the both.
Okay, cool. basic, okay. Okay. What is the CapEx cost and the payback period for these projects?
See the CapEx for this is, you know, related to the generation. You know, there's a wind PLF is almost double, hence, the cost is proportionally higher. Okay?
Okay. Yeah. In terms of payback, if you can.
You know, see, we have, if you calculate the ROI, it would come around, you know, payback period may be five to seven years. ROI would be around 15%-17%.
This you're talking about which project, sir?
Hybrid. We are talking about hybrid, right?
Okay. Okay, okay. five to seven years you're saying in hybrid projects?
Yeah, sure.
Okay, okay. Two bookkeeping questions that I had. One is related to, I can see an investment of INR 67 crores in the... What is that related to?
The INR 67 crores, if you see, it's only seen in the standard one. It's investment into the subsidiary. 100% fully owned subsidiary, the KPIG Energia and SunDrops Energia, the two subsidiaries of KPI.
Okay. Okay, okay. In the finance cost, if you can give the bifurcation between the interest cost and the lease cost that we have. Because I understand there are lease assets which are lying in the books, which are occurring in borrowings. In the finance cost, if you can give the differentiation.
Okay. If you see the lease finance cost is around INR 13.46 crores out of the total finance cost of INR 44 crores.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much. I will get back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devanka Rani, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Good evening for the fantastic set of numbers that you've been delivering constantly, quarter- on- quarter, sir.
Thank you, Devanka. Yeah.
Sir, I would like to ask, what is the mean of orders in hand in IPP, sir?
Okay. The order in hand in IPP are the orders which, you know, where you can see that, you know, we have PPA agreements, which are kept as an additional PPA agreement when where the IPP project is not set up. Because the IPP project decision period is around three to nine months. Depending upon the size and the type of the project we are working, it might go up and down.
We keep on approaching several customers, and they, since they don't want to miss out the to be in the queue for getting the power at a discounted rate, they sign out the PPA with us. We also have a comfort that we have additional PPAs in hand. That's why we keep that. Those are orders in hand, that we have signed the PPA, but have yet to supply the power.
Okay, okay. Sir, what would be additional capital required, sir, for this 42 MW order that we have in hand, sir?
We have already given you the per megawatt, you know, requirement for setting up the IPP. It's around 4.6- 4.5 something, it comes in around giving all the aspects. If you could just multiply it with this 40, you automatically get that....
Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. What would be the average cost of debt on the book, sir?
It is around 9%.
Okay, okay. What would be the tenure, sir? By when would we pay back this loan, sir?
See my, all my term loans, obviously, the cash loans, around 10-13 years. Okay. To pay back, it will be around 10-13 years for all these loans. My hybrid project, which we have started, we get over in March 30.
Okay, okay. One more thing, sir. We, in the presentation, we have given 846 + MW cumulative power evacuation capacity, sir. We are targeting about 1,000 MW or 1 GW, sir. How is the provision for the land, for the basic, for the differential megawatt that we are planning, sir?
We are targeting this 1,000 MW by calendar year 2025. Today we are on the 99 MW. The rest of the, say, 154 MW evacuation, as if we say we will get it by that time. If unless, if we are saying that if we have the capacity, because if 846 MW is AC, and the DC is, we can go up to 1,200. You can understand, how with that upon we can, try to. AC capacity evacuation we have, and whatever we are talking, 1,000 MW is, DC side. In that case, it will not be more yet, still we will, do it in this, but we are confident we will make it.
Okay, sir. Okay, sir. All the best, sir. All the best to the company, sir. We've always been some good results. Thank you, sir.
Thank you very much. Thanks very much. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sudhir Behera, from Right Time Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks for the opportunity again. Just wanted to understand, see, I'm studying a lot of other unlisted renewable companies, because there is no peers in the listed space. They all play IPP and CPP players. It's not available. The other non-listed companies, lot of companies are making losses, here we are making good profit and we are doing the business with a very good margin. What is the difference between our, what is our USP? How we are different from the other companies? Just wanted to understand that.
Thank you.
other peers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Far as here, that this type of, I think, question should not be answerable on the platform, because this is the only way or only business trade, what we are doing, or we are giving you the surety that we are not doing anything wrong. Everything is clear, we are doing it, and we are making our good profit in our company. As far as concerned of the how we do it, that one to one, once you come and we will share it with you. One thing is very sure that 110% we are doing everything legal way with the very transparency and nothing to hide or something, but the style is different. I think you understand what the style is different, because we are the only ones who are in.
We are doing IPP and CPP in initiative in one company. That's the USP of our company. This is right.
We are getting higher rate, I believe, compared to other, because we are into B2C company.
People have the confidence on our company, they are doing a good, and we are doing this in a very fast. Say, people are taking the 18 months, but we are doing in a three to six months, number one. Number two, we are making the pipeline ready for two or three years ago. That's the benefit also. Third is, whatever things are in the hardware that make and that conversion in a profit. That's it.
Great. Very happy to listen that. Thank you, sir, for giving me the opportunity.
Very well.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Mayank Mamania, from Mavira Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon, sir. Sir, I wanted to understand about RC. Are making the sale and it's more-
Sorry to interrupt. Sir, the audio-
Yeah.
-is breaking from your line. Please check.
Sorry? Now the lines are not clear here. I'm unable to hear the question.
The audio is not clear.
Okay, I will come back again.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tanaggar from Garf Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hello sir, am I audible?
Yes, yes.
Yeah. Congratulations on the great set of numbers. Yeah, congratulations on the great set of numbers. Thank you for doing this conference call. Sir, I have, like, three more questions since we are doing the call for the first time. My first question is, it is related to CPP segment. Now, when we bid for the plant, what is the typical size of the plant that we bid for? Is it a 3 MW plant, 6 MW plant, or the bigger plant?
Sorry, we cannot clearly hear your voice properly. Can you repeat the question again, please?
Sure. what I'm asking you.
Sorry to interrupt you. Sir, please use the handset mode.
Sorry?
Yeah, I'm using the handset mode. Am I audible now?
Yes, we are audible. You are audible.
Sir, my question is: when we typically bid for any solar project, what is the size of the project? By size, I mean, is it a 10 MW project or 100 MW? I mean, do we have a constraint there?
I think, there is no constraint. We can take as low as 1 MW also, and we can go up to 30 MW-40 MW also on the CPP side. We have an expertise. We have built our own 135 MW. The current order, if you see on the subscription what we have produced, around 35 MW orders which we have got. Size is not an issue for us. We have the capability to take the higher order in, smaller order.
Okay. Just a follow-up on this, like, who funds the working capital for the CPP project? Since, I think, let's say we are going for a 20 MW project, and you said it's a INR 4 crore is the cost, so that means it's a INR 80 crore of working capital that's used, right? I mean, is it funded by the client or we need to use our own working capital for this?
May, There is problem with my mic. You can hear me?
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry, sir, you have a, I would request you to please be slightly closer to the mic.
Okay. Am I clear and audible?
Yes. Yes, sir.
Can you just repeat the question so I can take on the next step?
Yes, sir. I was asking that who funds the working capital for CPP project? Do we fund it ourselves or the client funds the working capital?
It's a, it's a partial. There is some advance taken from the client, as well as we, where we want to stock up, you know, the prices and get benefit on that, we put, I think, working capital to get the inventory in hand so that we can deliver faster.
Okay. My last question is, just given you also do O&M projects, right? For the plants that we have created, I'm trying to understand what is the cost per megawatt, let's say per year cost per megawatt for operation and maintenance.
It's minimal. It's around INR 2 lakh per megawatt, you can say, around that.
I was trying to understand what can be the recurring revenue stream for, let's say for CPP project, but it's manageable. It's like INR 2 lakh per megawatt, right?
I think if you understand, I am telling the cost that I incur. Okay?
Okay.
I charge to the customer INR 5 lakh.
5 lakh per megawatt. Okay. Okay. My last question before I close this: actually, we have seen it in Sterling and Wilson, one of your earlier competitors. They had to do a significant write-off because they couldn't meet the expected standards which were provided by the customers, right, when they bid the project. Now, just taking it from the same experience, I want to understand, like, who bears this risk? Do we have a supplier who bears the risk, or, like, where does that go?
First of all, we don't do any big projects. Okay? We in our CPP project, we give 85% generation guarantee to the customer, till date we have not even 1 customer coming up with any lower generation. The panels are present, you are aware that panels are already warranted for 20 years.
Okay. Basically, when we don't have this risk because it's a long 10-year project, right?
No, we don't have that.
We don't-
We don't have that risk. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir, for answering the question, and wish you best of luck.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Tavera from OR Investments. Please go ahead.
Congratulations on the great set of numbers.
Hello. Mr. Tavera, please.
Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are audible.
Yeah. Congratulations on the great set of numbers, and, my first question is about REC substitution and, realization rate.
Sorry, your voice is cracking. We are unable to hear you.
Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, my first question is about REC certificates.
Okay.
The realization rate of it, and what it is from the last year, how much we realized?
In FY 2022-2023, we have realized around INR 25.30 lakhs, and many of the eventually projects are under REC substitution process. Now, since it's a ministry, we don't go into too much into calculation of that. We have, you know, about INR 25.30 lakhs, which is around per unit, you can say 1 rupee per unit is something which I have.
Oh, okay. What about the loan assistance for IPP as of today?
As of today, it is, I mean, 30%, it is INR 409 crores is on the term loan on the IPP side, yes.
Okay, management mentioned before that we need INR 266 crores of debt. We are, if I'm not wrong, like, we are arranging different source of debt of INR 159 crores from outside and INR 106 crores from the internal approval. What portion is towards CPP and IPP?
Sorry, I mean, I didn't get your question. Why do you are coming here in some foreign voices?
No, no. I'm here to it.
Okay. Just please repeat the question.
The, my question is about the loan assistance for IPP as of today.
Mm.
And also-
INR 409 crores.
Yeah. Okay, that's fine. You mentioned that INR 266 crores of debt capital we need for the IPP and CPP.
We have already incurred that CapEx in the last year.
Okay.
The CapEx cost INR 266 crores. It means the debt which was taken on INR 159 crores has raised from internal expense.
Okay. Last question is like, where do we maintain the panels, stock panels, and, whether it's to fulfill the supplies or else are we maintaining it at the optimum rates?
Okay. There are particular things for which we have both things, as you have given a time, we can. Both things, we do not want any issue for our CPP or our own CapEx also. At the same time, we want to take the advantage of the price. You understand that we have INR 109 crores of CPP orders in hand, which is around INR 400 or INR 450 crores. You can understand that the stock that we need is quite low compared to what is the order in hand here.
Whether it will definitely help in maintaining good margins and getting discount rates?
Yeah.
Okay. Finally, in 2020 to, year-end, we have, like, 100+ orders, order booked. Currently, 2023, we are with, 116+ MW orders. The difference is, slightly lower than anticipated. What about the future visibility?
I think the latest which we operate on the topic scale was CPP, around 35 MW. You can calculate 119 CPP, whereas 42 in IPP. We have a long list of IPP, but we don't consciously try to avoid that unless we have a CapEx plan which is inside that, anyway.
Okay. My understanding is like with CPP, we are going with volumes and with IPP with margins. Is that the right understanding?
You are right understood. Yes.
Yeah.
CPP adds to the top line, and IPP adds to the bottom.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishikesh of RoboCapital. Please go ahead.
Hello, am I audible? Hello.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you for the in answer. My question is on the margin. How do you want me to understand? Your voice is cracking.
Your voice is not proper, my dear.
Just a second. It's going on.
Hello?
Your audio is breaking out, Mr. Rishikesh. We would request you, sir, to be in a network area.
Is it okay now?
Yeah, go ahead, sir.
I just wanted to understand the market side.
Sorry, sir, the audio is breaking. Sir, we request you to rejoin the question.
Yeah, audio is not proper, please. We will take the next question. In meantime, the audio is coming.
Please rejoin the question, thank you.
Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rushil Selarka from Pioneer Investc orp. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Mr. Selarka, please go ahead with your question.
Go ahead with your question.
Mr. Selarka, please go ahead with your question. There is no response from the current participant, we'll move on to the next question from the line of Satish Venkat, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you for hosting this call. Thank you. Sir, my first question is, sir, our business is mainly on IPP and CPP, but recently, sir, our group company, KP Energy, is also planning to enter into IPP segment. Will this not impact our business, and, I mean, will it not create competition between our companies, sir?
Sir, there are different set of customers, different types. Nothing will be hampered to any company. Don't worry. We have so many competitors already. We do not compete with each other. That's what we said. Don't worry. See the business. I hope you understand.
Currently, our target for market, sometimes we have structured fine. My next question is, sir, we are currently completely Gujarat. Focus from Gujarat, our complete business is in Gujarat. Do you have any plans to?
Your voice, sir?
Yes, it's audible now?
Yeah, it is audible. That, your question is we are only Gujarat. In future we are going to expand our hand to the other state. Yes, answer is yes. We are trying our best to put the everywhere footprint, but in Gujarat, very easy foot today, so we are getting it. Tomorrow, if we need to be 100%, we will do, and we are trying our best. Telangana and Rajasthan and MP and Maharashtra and Karnataka, Tripura, so many areas. We are in a move ahead with this target also.
Okay, thank you. The next question is, sir, we have some business dealing with Tristar Transport LLC. What is the deal regarding what kind of business we are doing with them?
Is with Tristar is a UAE company, and they are very big company in hydrogen. They have the very good logistic things over there. They have 2,000 trucks for the hydrogen and the liquid things. They are supplying to all UAE countries. For that we are going to be start with them in the hydrogen field. Automatically our renewable also will support the green hydrogen. All together you can say the advanced engineering for this subject. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Yeah. Okay. The complete business is through our KPI Green-
Yes.
That is completely branded to our-
There is a power company only. Where we are going to do in UAE, with the support of KPI and KP Energy and KP Telecom, we are going to start the green hydrogen project in the UAE.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niket Shah from SM Invest .
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, ma'am.
Yeah. I want to ask, once we are in this hybrid policy, are we going to merge KPI Green and KP Energy? Do we plan something like that?
No, no. What you say,
I'm asking, are you going to merge both your companies?
No, there is no such plan right now. We are not doing anything for that right now.
Okay, secondly, will you increase our stake a little bit?
You will see on a board, my dear. If I increase the stake, of course, I want to be 100%, but I will need.
Okay. Thank you.
Ji, ji.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Jain, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm audible, sir? Good evening, sir.
Good evening.
Sir, I'm a Retail Individual Investor, and firstly, very inspired from your story. My one question is that, sir, whatever raw material that's required for KP Energy, do we import or we have our in-built in-house, like solar panel and solar module?
We are, till date we have not imported anything in the company, but in future, if we require, we will import.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks so much. One more thing I want to tell that, whatever, KP Human Foundation is doing is really doing good, and I really admire that thing, that you are doing very great for the society and for the children.
Our funda is. Thank you very much for appreciation KP Human Development Foundation. Our funda is very clear. Whatever we have got from the society, we have to give back to the society. That is our funda. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. You are doing really great work. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anurag Roonwal from Moneybee Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. In the opening remarks, you mentioned that the EBITDA margins have come down because of the change in mix between CPP and IPP. I wanted to understand, what is the difference in margins between these two segments, between CPP and IPP?
IPP is a totally CapEx-based business, where we sell the energy and we get the 70%, 78%. The CPP is again, the EPC contract licensing. Over there, of course, the competition and the things are not long term. Many things are coming every year, every month rate will be changed and every customer is changed over there. Of course, we were doing before 20%, 30%-35% IPP and rest of the CPP.
Of the top line we want, we have done 85% of the CPP and 15% of the IPP. Naturally, the EBITDA will dilute by CPP.
Okay. If you can give the % EBITDA margin in both the businesses, is that possible?
The % EBITDA that we earn in IPP, 20%-35% can be the CPP margin.
Okay. In IPP?
It's a 70%-75%.
Okay. Okay. Now in terms of IPP, I understand, last, in FY 2023, you generated around 14.7 crore units. These were sold to the customers in IPP segment. What is the target for FY 2024 in this?
Our target is at least 22 crore units.
Okay. Okay. What is the realization that you got in IPP segment through sale of electricity in FY23?
6.35 to 22, you will understand. Okay, we will get at least INR 140 crore from the IPP.
Okay. That sounds great, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. One thing I'll put the note here, that our 25 years, INR 100 crore pack will be fixed for the model.
Correct. Thank you, sir.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishikesh from RoboCapital. Please go ahead. Hello? Rishikesh, your line is in talk mode. Please go ahead with your question.
Am I audible now?
Yes, Hrishikesh, tell me. We only heard you audible, after that there's nothing. Hello. Hrishikesh, you write down the question on the board. That will be better for us because we cannot hear you properly.
Oh, yeah. Sorry, sir.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Akhilesh Kumar from AD Pro Technologies. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, I wanted to know about the high debt level we have on our-.
Mr. Kumar, sorry to interrupt you. Request you, sir, to please speak little bit louder.
Okay. I wanted to know about the high level of debt we are having on our books, like, say, around INR 675 crores. What is our debt to equity ratio right now, and do we plan to bring that ratio to a more reasonable level?
Our debt to equity ratio, yeah. I already explained you the debt to equity ratio is 3: 1 as per then, which is a healthy ratio for an industry, which is a capital-intensive industry. That's even our rating is also A category.
Okay. this year also, we can expect like, okay, it might go further?
We try to maintain the debt to equity ratio.
Okay. another-
We try our best to maintain range.
Okay. I wanted to know, like, we are carrying the land of around, you said INR 700 crores, the value.
Right.
Do we own all the land or we have part of that as on lease for a long time?
No, I told the INR 700 crore is the land that we own. 700 acres of land.
Okay.
INR 700 crore, 700 acres of land.
We are holding.
Out of 1,347, total land bank, containing 74 that you are seeing in the presentation, 700 is own land.
Okay, majority of that is own land, right?
Yes.
Okay, got it. Going forward, like, say, do we want like to become a bigger, say, five player? Like, say, right now, let's say NTPC or any other government tenders, they ask for 215 MW kind of a thing. Do we have that kind of a scale?
Again? Yeah, we are going in that also, and we have a separate team for that, and we are doing that. We are trying to reach the government to give us more, and we see something good.
Okay, that's it. Thanks a lot. I will come back and give you if I have any more.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rushil Selarka from Pioneer Investcorp. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello, sir. sir, Yeah, my question is, does cash balance also include Debt Service Reserve Account? Can you tell what is the free cash balance after providing for Debt Service Reserve Account deposits?
Yeah, it includes the Debt Service Reserve Account, that's what we call, the free cash flow will be around INR 4.2 crores, which is free cash flow.
Okay. sir, what is our total land bank as of now, and how much is leased and how much is owned?
We have already explained 1,374, out of 1,374, 700 is our own, and this is 74 is the lease balance.
Okay. Sir, last question is, where on the O&M and lease income, which is shown in the presentation, which is INR 5 crore +, what is this and do you expect this income to increase further?
This income will be increased further year to year. So, when we reach to approximately INR 75 crore annual income for the company in 2025 yearly.
Sir, can you explain this O&M income, what is it about? Can you just give us a break on this income?
We cannot hear you properly. Last two sentences. Repeat the last two sentences.
Sir, can you explain the O&M and lease income? Exactly, how is the income generated?
O&M, O&M is like this. Whenever you work with CPP, for up to 50 years, we do the generation of the CPP plant from our side by doing operation and maintenance, and the land on which the plant is installed is the lease land. We take the lease for it. That is, we either work on lease to lease or what is ours, we work on lease. It's like the rental of your plant.
Okay, sir. Is there any escalation or something like that in the price side?
Every year, 2%, 3% party to party escalation occurs.
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir, and congratulations for the nice results.
Nice of you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Salim Yahoo, Chief Financial Officer of KPI Green Energy Limited, for closing comments.
Thank you. I thank all for this, we express heartfelt thanks for the participants who have shown interest in our business and have, you know, asked a good set of questions to us. You know, our special thanks to our Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Faruk Patel, for taking out time and being present for this investor call. We, we assure you are seeing newer heights as we go forward and achieve a new milestone, which will be seen in the coming years. Thank you. Thanks for the participation. Thank you all.
Thank you. Ladies, and gentlemen, on behalf of KPI Green Energy Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.