Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to the Earnings Call for the Results in the Second Quarter of 2025 for Grupo Casas Bahia. If you need simultaneous translation, we have this tool available on our platform. To access, please select the interpretation button on the globe icon at the bottom part of your screen and choose your language of preference: Portuguese or English. For those listening to the earnings call in English, we have the mute regional audio option. Selecting this option, we'd like to let you know that this earnings call is being recorded and will be provided on the IR website of the company at ir.grupocasasbahia.com.br, where you will find the full material for the earnings call. You can download our presentation as well on the chat icon and in English as well. During the presentation, all participants will have their mics off.
We will begin the Q&A session. We would like to highlight that the information in this presentation and possible statements that could be made during the earnings call related to business perspectives, projections, operational targets, and financial goals of the company represent assumptions of the company's management, as well as information that is currently available. Future statements are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions as they refer to future events that rely on circumstances that could or not occur. Investors must comprehend that general economic conditions, market conditions, and other operational factors can affect the future performance of the company and lead to results that differ materially from those listed in such future statements. Today, we have the presence of the company executives: Renato Franklin, the CEO; Elcio Ito, the CFO and IRO; and Gabriel Succar, the Investor Relations Director.
Now I'll pass the floor on to Mr. Renato Franklin.
[Foreign language]
Hello. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you so much for being with us today to keep up with the results in the second quarter of 2025. We'll present here the consistent evolution in our operational indicators, as well as in the company's financial structure. I want to start off by saying that we have a big highlight this quarter, which is the conversion of BRL 1.6 billion of our debt into shares. This step is super important, and more important than the capital resource, really dropping a lot of leverage indicators that we'll see up ahead, and also providing evidence on the confidence of Mapa Capital in the company's administration, in the strategy we have here, and all the support for management. That will unleash the transformation plan. With this, Mapa Capital through Domus Participações has 85.5% of the company's shares. The main impacts of this are on the right side.
The stability of the current management team is one of the factors, so we can continue to develop our work, which is long-term. We've evolved, and we've been very confident about our evolution so far. We're also very conscious of this long-term plan with other milestones that have already been planned, but that we have planned to continue to deliver, right? This unleashes a lever that helps with the capital structure, and this was one more advance. Here we'll also see reinforcement in our governance, with our management going from five to seven members and keeping up four of the current ones. This provides evidence, as well as contribution from the Mapa team.
Mapa was a financial advisors company with partners that have a lot of experience in the market, and that will help contribute in these other initiatives where we still have capacity to improve the capital structure, having a role-like company that will evolve, and so that we can really have and become a reference in operational efficiency and capital structure, generating sustainable value. It's a long-term approach with a focus on governance and value creation. This is one of the main highlights of this conversion. About the highlights in the second quarter, here you can see the consistency of the deliveries with the discipline in this execution, a very conservative approach in credit granting, growth, and with discipline.
We have had seven quarters consecutively delivering evolution of EBITDA margin quarter- over- quarter, and the conversion we have already mentioned with the reduction of about 40% of the debt in the company. We have been able to do this with GMV growth in all channels. That also helps capture a little bit of this operational leverage. I want to highlight the free cash flow as well. That has improved consistently every quarter, BRL 173 million. We know that we're on the right path, but there's still a lot to be done to reach the point we're in. Market share gains in all of the different categories in the company provide evidence about the strength of the brand and our commercial execution capacity and scale, and the relevance in the home appliance industry.
The engine of this growth, really, which is our Buy Now, Pay Later, the Crediário, which has real potential as a sales engine in physical stores and also in digital channels, BRL 630 million, 12% growth, and NPL is under control. On the next slide, we'll give you a little more details on the CMV. First, 6.7% of the same-store sales. Even with deflation in certain categories, the market is going sideways with some categories, especially when you look at the physical market. We grew same-store sales, gaining market share, and you can see this market share gain per category, as you can highlight on the white home appliance line. Online, when we announced in August 2023 the strategy of being a specialist, there was a concern in the market of removing the non-core categories.
We demonstrate and start showing numbers that demonstrate the strength of a specialist player, and such a strong brand that causes bias. We grow in 1P with online, despite lower investments. We grow in 3P, which is a core 3P. We do not have a generalist 3P with low average tickets. Our 3P is just complementary to the 1P mix we have. Special assortments that do not make sense or do not have enough scale or quantities, if it is just like a high-end niche product, we can sell through 3P. When it reaches scale and volume, then we have the commercial team buying this product, and it becomes 1P. It is definitely relevant for online and for the sales through the physical stores, with 3P also delivering to customers or receiving at the store to be picked up a few moments later.
This is a very relevant shift in our trend, and we'll continue to see this growth at the same pace as the digital channel for the company. We can move on, please, to talk about the Buy Now, Pay Later, the Crediário. The highlight here is what we had already mentioned. We're being very conservative in credit granting, using our structure and model that's very robust, and the strength of the brand that provides good customer loyalty. The indicators show this, and we had growth of our production number in the second quarter of 2024. We grew even more in the fourth quarter to be able to have Black Friday. We hope with 180 days, we throw in all of the losses to results, and we wanted to be sure of delinquency beforehand, right?
We wanted to be a little more conservative because there could be worsening in the macro scenario that could lead to an impact in the NPL. Our concession is super robust. We've been growing at the best ratings. You can see that there was a moment in the company where it was really stable with incremental improvements, stable NPL, and the net losses also got better over time, bringing in benefits and helping us to enter in with another growth cycle in the Crediário, Buy Now, Pay Later . That's a gradual, of course, and we have to measure, wait for it to be concrete, and then work on another level. We hope to have, we prefer to have a very consistent and incremental level than just trying something really big and then taking on risks that could be greater in this macro scenario that's a little more challenging.
We can move on to the next slide, please. We have a slide where we compare the company's delinquency or NPL with the overall market. We got two rates, Banco Central and also for overdraft. In both scenarios, you had a worsening of about 200 basis points compared to last year. When you look at the company, we are going from 8.5%- 8.4%. That demonstrates the resilience of the company despite adverse scenarios. This is valid for the situation we had in Rio Grande do Sul as well, now in the macro scenario with deterioration, where we once again keep our conservative approach and unique performance in our credit business. Now we have our accountability for the transformation plan.
You remember in August 2023, we presented the initiatives that would transform the company's operational results, and we listed some of the deliverables with a lot more levers, of course, but some of the main ones here to demonstrate the discipline in our execution and capacity for delivery in the team that's working on the turnaround. Our portfolio increased and the financial revenues grew 10%. The increase of penetration of the Buy Now, Pay Later of the Crediário, about BRL 280 million in digital and physical stores. CRMs generating over BRL 160 million in sales just in the second quarter of 2025 and growing. This really helps because a lot of these sales contribute to the growth of the Buy Now, Pay Later, Crediário, and the digital solution also for more efficiency of the sellers as well.
That, of course, optimizes the free time of the sellers to bring in BRL 360 million additional sales in this quarter, which helps us grow a lot. In the bottom part, you see that we can really talk about the significant reduction in the company's SG&A. BRL 160 million if you look at this quarter, and it's already going to be about BRL 600 million in a year. Last year, we captured BRL 380 million. The first leap was very big. We have been tightening up with our operational efficiency. We still have some tweaks to perform, but this is going to help us to capture operational leverage even more in the future. Overall, we had over 13,000 positions that we eliminated, and the labor claims was another big concern. Now it's a lot more controlled. We have a whole other level of expenses.
We still have gains to be captured, but it's a long-term journey, and we have been continuing to work on this gradual evolution as well. We had 90 stores closed. We had constant discipline. 22 stores closed this quarter to assess the margins, and we won't have stores that have negative margins. 13 DCs that were reallocated. About the capital structure, every operational improvement, every quarter of demonstrating this kind of improvement in line with what we had committed to in the previous quarters has really brought credibility and reliability to improve our liabilities and our capital structure. We presented the plan in August, and we had a follow-on to bring cash into the company to handle the cash needs and allow for some tough decisions at that moment.
With this evolution, we were able to unleash new cash, and we were able to deliver a quarter initial reprofiling with BRL 1.5 billion. We delivered another quarter with reprofiling, a definite result, extending the company's debts to six years of duration and releasing the cash flow. In January 2025, we were able to put into operation our FIDC to support the growth of the Buy Now, Pay Later , the Crediário. In January 2025, that started working formally, releasing and unleashing the growth of the Buy Now, Pay Later . In August 2025, we had the anticipation of this conversion, and that helped unleash or improve the working capital and releasing cash flow, which will bring indirect benefits for sure. That considers the improvement of the rating, unleashing cheaper credit facilities, and with that, we can reduce the more expensive ones. When do we see this benefit?
This is from when since this happened in the third quarter. The direct benefits are normally captured in the fourth quarter. The lines that are being released, we already have some things that are taking place now, and we already started moving with the announcements of the anticipation of this conversion. We are going to use this seasonality factor in the second half of the year after Black Friday. We will reduce the working capital lines, and that will, of course, improve the financial expenses of the company. Here are the financial highlights. Just a minute. Here we're going to get into more details.
[Foreign language]
Okay. Thank you, Renato. Good afternoon, and thank you all for your presence. As Renato mentioned, the highlights in the quarter basically reflect the discipline and consistency of the execution of our plan in the three scenarios I always mentioned, reinforcing that we are so firm in our governance and keeping up with this plan, where there are still a lot of initiatives underway and slowly but surely they'll mature and bring in the results gradually. That's what we hope to demonstrate from now on. Let's move on to the next page. This slide demonstrates the evolution of this plan that we've been presenting with the big indicators for the seventh quarter consecutively. When it starts with the upper left graph for the third consecutive quarter, we had an advance in the net revenue with solid growth of 6% compared to last year.
GMV is also growing at 6.7%, physical stores, and the recovery of the 1P and online from 10.4%. We continue to accelerate the revenue in 3P by 15.5%. Once again, it's a 3P of core products and non-long tails where you have a level of competitiveness that you see. Here you can see the core categories of the company and the upper right graph, which is the gross profit and growth of 3.8% in the comparison annually, and a margin of 30.1%, slightly below the period last year with a sales mix impact with a greater share of the phone segment on the average, where it's a little lower than the average in the company. As the segment grows, that's pushed downwards. Of course, we had a greater share of online, which grew with positive margins, but a little bit below the physical channel margins.
That's why our trend is always in the physical channel, but growing with online as well. Just a bit of this channel mix of sales mix, but that's very healthy and beneficial to the company still. On the bottom left side, you can see the operational expenses with a nominal reduction of almost 3%, with a reduction of the revenue by 6%, and an average inflation of 5.5%, where we could consider the SG&A as a potential of this revenue. This performance demonstrates the ongoing gains we've been mentioning as we grow our revenue in a profitable manner that generates operational cash generation and also the control on costs and expenses, where we still have some screws to tighten, let's say, but clearly a gain in the top line where you push the margins upwards. That's the result of this combination.
On the bottom right graph, you can see the adjusted EBITDA, BRL 572 million, 26.5% higher than last year, with an EBITDA margin of 8.3% versus 7% of the previous year. The advances sequentially quarter- over- quarter of our results are clear. I'll go over another slide here just because, similarly, you can see this biannual analysis. As Renato mentioned here, we started the plan in August 2023. In the first half of our plan, we had to restructure lots of things and work on different events that were non-recurring in the results. We have pretty good comparability with this semester versus the first semester of 2024. The message is very consistent: growth of 8% in our revenue, increase of 7.2% in the gross profit.
SG&A is also reaching nominal levels that are lower, 1.8% improvement with the revenue, and the EBITDA is growing 36%, BRL 313 million in the annual comparison, going up from 6.5% to 8.2%. This growth is very strong in this six-month period. Here you have quarter- over- quarter the levers and a series of initiatives that take place and mature and granularly bring this in. We have no silver bullet here. We just have different initiatives we're working on simultaneously. We also want to talk about our evolution in the EBIT because it's been a lot more impactful when we look at BRL 69 million or 0.5% margin last year to BRL 570 million this year and a margin of 4.1%. This is an increase of BRL 501 million and 3.6 percentage points. To complete this, on the right side graph, you have the net adjusted loss.
Just to make it very clear, we had two adjustments. First would be the debt modification, where you have the accounting loan issuance when we had the reprofiling and the mark-to-market of this 10th issuance, which is a non-cash, non-recurrence. Last year, we had a positive impact of BRL 637 million, and this year was negative by BRL 246 million. In the first semester, as we always consider half a year, right? It's a non-cash topic, and we're considering a variation of BRL 883 million. This is the first financial adjustment we performed. Item two has the monetary adjustments, contingencies, etc. This year with a - BRL 48 million. Last year, we had a benefit that was non-recurrent. It was a one-off benefit of the monetary update. We just updated these two items. If you look at our financial statements, that's very clear and visible.
We leave this in bases that are more comparable, and we'll see an improvement of the financial results of the company. Obviously, there's a bit of loss, but even in July, it'll be 15%. I think you have the improvement of the company as a whole, and it just becomes more and more evident considering the size of the loss, that the main topic of the company is the capital structure. When we look at this scenario, and maybe we can get into the next slide. If you look at the scenario, we performed the anticipation of the conversion that Renato mentioned of Series 2. It's worth mentioning that originally, this option would only be exercised from October this year onwards with six quarterly windows. There was no commitment. It could be performed from October onwards.
Amidst the scenario we've seen, we were able to complete 100% in August, which changes our indicators for leverage. With this, our net debt reduced by 40%, going from 4.2x to 2.4x. The leverage metrics on the total capital goes from 72% to 44%, or at the metric of net debt to EBITDA of 1.8x to 1.1x, which is an improvement that's very considerable. This conversion brings automatic benefits that Renato's already mentioned of BRL 230 million per year. However, maybe what's most relevant is the improvement of the capital structure as a whole that'll generate other benefits, greater offering and availability of credit as a whole with this pressure in the spread. When you look at the Buy Now, Pay Later , Crediário system, we don't have any restrictions for available credit in the Crediário, the Buy Now, Pay Later system, because we're going to grow in a conservative approach.
We have no restriction. What we're searching for now is as the credit profile in the company is lower and better, we try to compress a bit more of the spreads, which also helps monetize the assets and prices become more reasonable. The sale of real estate assets, as the credit in the company gets better, you start having prices in regards to your credit spread that are better. Maybe especially in the reduction of some forfeit operations, where we hope to have a gradual increase in the limits of the spreads with suppliers and insurances. It's not very perceivable in the short term, but we do have a demand in the short term of volume and credit that's greater due to Black Friday and Christmas. Gradually, this scenario will evolve and enable good execution for the seasonality from now on.
You have an improvement in the capital structure as a whole, and naturally, that generates more flexibility financially in the company. That's kind of what we need to work on. What I think is the most important is, despite this conversion, it's very relevant and very important, but we are also aware that there's an important path to go through in this agenda, and we are very committed to continue to advance. Now we're advanced to the next page. Within this negotiation, we also had the reprofiling of our debt and bringing in a little more safety to our cash flow with the reprofiling of Series 1. We postponed this to November 2027, the payment of the principal amount and the interest for this debt. You preserve the cash position at about BRL 400 million.
To wrap up on our last slide here, which is our cash flow at BRL 173 million in the quarter compared to BRL 92 million in the same period last year. Here you have some important discipline, whether it's the operational results or the CapEx, working capital, etc. We're always reflecting seasonality and the objective commercially and strategies and a lot of issues when it comes to labor claims, etc., that are, of course, all part of our free cash flow future, let's say. We just consider this in the last quarters annually, and then the EBITDA also looks pretty low to demonstrate that in some periods we had higher EBITDAs, but with the cash consumption, that was also a lot higher than what we have now. I think that was already evident, but we wanted to just share our guidance and this emphasis on the company's driver on cash flow.
Now we're going to pass it back to Renato, and we'll get into the Q&A session soon.
Thank you, Elcio. We can just reinforce the main messages here, the key messages. We highlight the consistent improvement of our margins with GMV growth, which is very relevant in a macro scenario where you don't have market growth. Online is growing a little bit more than physical, and it's natural that we, as a specialist player with the share we have and the skill we have, bring a little more growth in online, considering the, but in the midterm, the priority is to grow the Buy Now, Pay Later , and also the capital structure that has an important advance that will unleash other benefits, as Elcio has already mentioned. We can share a little bit of the vision we have up ahead. What's up ahead?
We'll continue with gradual growth in the physical stores, basically levered by the Buy Now, Pay Later . We'll see digital gaining margins, growing, and adding the Buy Now, Pay Later penetration, retail media, etc., as an important indicator. It's one of the ones that most grew, but it's still small considering the company's potential and a lot of growth opportunities. We continue to increase operational efficiency, keeping up space with AI and CRM. Dynamic pricing has advanced a lot as well in all categories, using AI as a resource for pricing, which brings us margin gains, and that offsets a bit of the mix effect of this process. That's considering a cash margin that's better, right? Especially new opportunities for capital structure improvements. We have complete awareness that what we did is transformational, but it's not enough to get to where we would like to.
The operational sides will improve constantly. The company, of course, has to have two digits in EBITDA margin. We've been working on evolving quarter for quarter, but also the capital structure that we want to work with, right? We need to work with a very light balance sheet so we can generate value. There are strategic value levers that involve some of our assets in our pipeline that will generate value and really help the company to deleverage gradually. Thank you all for your trust once again. We're super happy with this important step we took for having Mapa with us here and really excited about what's coming ahead. Now we'll get into the point Q&A, and we can get into more details about these points. Gabriel, if you can conduct this.
Yes, for sure. Renato. Our first question is from Danni Eiger at XP. Danni, you may proceed.
Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on the work you've done. The slide you presented is really impressive. On my side, I have two questions. The first one is more focused on growth and the sales dynamic generally. In the last quarter, you talked about the lack of consistency in consumption. You talked about February and March being very weak, and then May was very strong. We also wanted to hear from you guys how you guys have been viewing this thermometer, right, from consumers. We understand that the high interest rates are a big challenge overall, especially for these more sensitive categories. Anything you can share with us would help, including what you've already seen and what you expect up ahead. My second question is still related to the growth dynamic.
Something that's very positive is that the credit indicators are very healthy, even in this scenario where you improve this very assertive model and you have a more restrictive credit policy, right? Considering this uncertainty scenario and higher interest with restricted consumption, do you imagine you would maybe use this as a lever, of course, with controls and gradually to sustain possible recovery in sales with a little more oxygen, let's say? Those are my two questions.
Great. Thank you for the question. We'll start off talking about the sales dynamic. Last time we were very, we had this very evident dynamic. April was really strong. We see July is going to be strong here. We had e-commerce growing more than the physical store. If we look at some numbers in the first semester, the electronics and home appliances are pretty flat.
The formal market, so some numbers we received that have some reliability. I'll talk about 25%, and we have some people that are talking about 40%. There's a big opportunity as long as you have this inspection and avoid parallel market, right? With the exception of these external factors, July was pretty good. We were able to keep our pace, and August was also very strong with Father's Day. We've been able to gain share in June and August, and we are very excited with the third quarter to keep this consistency, to work in these different categories a little better. When we started announcing this anticipation of the conversion, that was almost certain, right? We were able to have pretty good reception from our suppliers. We're more prepared.
That would allow me to choose a bit more of what to buy because at some moments we had to buy a little more of the mix where we had more credit, and we maybe had to stop buying from some people for a little while. We're also reducing this need of anticipation, right? Sometimes the limit increases because you have seasonality, etc. The benefits also in the forfeit line will only appear in 2026 because up until the fourth quarter, that's consumed by new purchases, and then we can exchange that and keep an additional limit and reducing this. When we look at the credit, we don't see deterioration of our internal indicators, but we don't want to compensate this. We're very careful in this first period. All of the indicators, if you get BRL 600 million and there's interest rates that are pretty high with a little less demand.
There is a desire from consumers to buy, but the values of the installments and the alternatives we presented of extending the installments to be able to reduce the costs of the installments with the real high interest rates, that doesn't work very well. We prefer to keep this approach, being more conservative and having more gradual growth and not trying to take a leap or compensate this in deviations with the Buy Now, Pay Later . It's going to be a long-term journey while the macro scenario is as it is. When macro gets a little better, if we have a solution with a fiscal agenda or some kind of tailwind that kind of pushes us forward, we can maybe take on a more aggressive approach. That will, of course, encourage the growth of our sales, and that'll help a lot more.
If you just do any model and add the amount of sales with this taking place in the Buy Now, Pay Later , that would modify the P&L of the company a lot. That's kind of what we imagine for the end of 2026 and not before that.
Excellent. Congratulations on the results.
Thank you, Danni.
Our next question comes from Ruben Couto, Santander. Ruben, you may proceed.
[Foreign language]
Good afternoon, everyone. I wanted to hear about the expense point. I think that's been a protagonist, right, for the margin improvement. Renato mentioned there's a lot to be done. I wanted to understand if it's more about waiting on operational leverage as growth comes from a continuity of this process, or if there's still room to have more efficiency gains on the expense lines, which have been very significant. If you could also give us an update on the expectations regarding the labor expenses and claims, which are also in this context, that would be great. Thank you.
Sure. Yeah. So, Ruben, if you look at expenses, what we see here is that we still have opportunities, but they're more incremental. When we look at the nominal value, it really looks a lot tighter and more difficult to see structural modifications, right?
The biggest opportunities are for operational leverage, right? Where you see a lot of opportunities is with capital allocation. When we look at the costs, especially for stocks, we see a distribution in a network of 1,000 stores with a market that is sometimes stronger in e-commerce, where you have like 25 DCs to service e-commerce plus the 1,000 stores that operate as mini hubs and delivery terms that also influence this. The availability of the stock also influences the capacity for sales. We're getting a lot stronger now with analytical models to be able to optimize this distribution. There's lots of opportunities here. Along with credit, and that's why it's an important leverage, where you release the credit along with suppliers to allow us to buy in a more balanced manner.
Today, we concentrate this a lot by the end of the month, and that's where we'll have an excessive stock in some locations and ruptures in others. I'm losing sales, and we have excessive capital with expenses as well. We have a lot of expenses that are associated to this process, right? Here there are indirect expenses that affect the SG&A a little less, but there's no short-term lever, right? These are long-term levers. In most of these, the payback is 12 or 24 months. We take a while to start reaping the benefits. Till today, there's things we look at and we say, "Oh, we're still paying the cost of this business," and they start capturing it. Because if until you wait and clean out the entire stock, we still don't have like a big special sale. We have to do things a little more gradually.
There is an opportunity here in some of the indirect expense lines, but they're not that significant to look at, right? What's most probable is that we'll be able to have this operational leverage, and we'll consider this dilution in the SG&A. When we consider labor, then yes, over time, we have improvements. If you consider the base and the continuity of normality in the company, it's better than what it is today. There's no significant improvement, but we're at a pace that we consider to be pretty much what's going to go on this year. Up ahead, I do have important evolutions, right? When you have a lower amount of labor claims, the levels of provisions I have end up appearing to be excessive, right? We're waiting on this to be confirmed. It takes five years to be for payment.
It takes a while, but I'll have a P&L that's a lot better in two years than today. When I close the store, that generates an impact factor, of course, but we try to be conservative. However, yes, there are discussions as there are numbers that could be better for next year than what was our baseline. Just as 2025 kind of anticipated 2026, it could be that 2026 anticipates 2027, and then it'll be quicker for everyone to see what the normality is, right? Not the anomaly we had in the past. We're very controlled, and we've been evolving very well with some incremental improvements that we rather provide more disclosure on when we have the actual confirmation.
Thank you, Renato.
Just to complement this on labor, ever since last year, we've been mentioning how those legacy processes that were a lot and lawsuits that were a lot more expensive, and they've been dropping in size, and their total price, of course, considered there's more assertive governance in this process. All of this impacts this quarter- over- quarter with a significant improvement. It keeps up this trend until it stabilizes a bit more and we move along, right? We need to continue this important work and all of the logistics efficiency that Renato mentioned. All of the efficiency really represents a gain where we can observe this over the periods. Clearly, the operational leverage is very strong as we get our sales mix right with the paid channels or the physical store with the Buy Now, Pay Later and services. It's this equation. If we focus on the growth, it's going to bring in a lot of benefits for sure.
Great. Thank you for adding this.
Thanks, Ruben.
Our next question is from Gustavo Senday, Bradesco. Gustavo.
[Foreign language]
Hi there. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for the space here. I have two questions. One is about the competitive scenario, if you could give us an update. We have some digital native companies accelerating their focus in this category. If you could talk about the specific category that's maybe been a little more aggressive with these players. The second point is about CDC. For the first time in this quarter, I wanted to understand how we should look at this from now on with this new reality of the company with the debt converted and if this could be accelerated, especially considering online. Those are my main questions.
Thanks. Great, Gustavo. Thanks for the questions. Now about the competitive scenario, what we've seen is retail, first of all, with the physical stores. Retail is very rational still. Everyone's demanding financial discipline from the teams and commercial strategies.
There's competition with a very rational scenario. We have no other points to add, like, "Oh, someone's getting in the way of the market," or just so, no. It's very rational. It's going to keep up as it is while macro is pretty much in this scenario, right? Whoever was not leveraged became leveraged, and who was already leveraged, it really was left in a complicated situation. We were able to act beforehand, and now I think we're even better if comparing with other peers, right? In digital, it's different. We have categories, and when we consider the higher ticket, we continue to have people operating pretty well, and that's been bringing growth.
When we talk about big box, big volume products, these are categories where Casas Bahia is a reference, and we've been able to grow with discipline, prioritizing our margins, which we don't have commitment to growth in the online channel, right? We have a commitment to margins. When we look at portables, what has happened is, believe it or not, we see a share gain in our generalist platforms, but we also gain share. There's significant growth in the market for e-commerce, and the market dynamic is very different. The brick-and-mortar market is pretty stable, and the online market is growing. Today, it's already about 52%, 53% online. I think we're moving towards a scenario where we'll be close to China, maybe with 60/40. I thought it would be a little quicker, but it's going a little. We thought it would be slower, but it's going quicker, right?
Even bigger tickets demand this. There are structural changes that need to happen, and we hear this from our manufacturers, that they sometimes had to accelerate digital channels because they didn't have space of credit to sell with us and other players, and that this conversion should probably favor us when it comes to shares. I'm super optimistic with the negotiation dynamic. We'll expand in the second semester and next year. Besides this, we have seasonality in the second half of the year, and next year, we have the World Cup, which is where the company has a lot of strong points because our biggest share is in televisions. That's kind of the dynamics we're looking at when you consider the competitive environment.
About CDC and digital penetration, we do have a very well-structured strategy to increase penetration in digital, but we do not have a priority in the short term to perform capital allocation in this channel. Our priority is physical stores. The market has really been pushing us a bit, and we have to meet customer needs, obviously. There are a lot of new launches, a lot of product assortments. I can't buy everything in 1P because I want to have discipline in this purchase, and we're not working on just random bets. To buy for 1,000 stores, you have to have depth. The bets I can do in 3P, right, because I'm not using my capital for that. That's where, through the CRM, we can work with the Buy Now, Pay Later and the Crediário.
We've been evolving a lot with our CRM, which is a super important lever to be able to grow the Crediário in digital. Now customers are really experiencing this omnichannel journey. You're watching a television on the website. You go out and you receive a WhatsApp of a seller saying, "Look, hey, Gustavo, you're looking at this television on the website. Do you want to come at the store and take a look at it?" The feedbacks are very good. Sometimes the guy says, "Hey, you're monitoring me." No, you're seeing the lead. You see the guy online and logged in. There's a lot of potential. When I see the amount of possibilities with 160 million tax IDs, we're just scratching the ceiling, right? You're just starting. The potential is huge. We're really using this possibility to optimize the rollers in CRM.
We have good conversion, and that allows us to continue to invest and reduce our exposure in other paid channels that improve the contribution margins of this digital channel. That is where I can really see next year we should experience an environment where it really makes sense to accelerate digital. Today, I will allocate cash to accelerate this. It comes organically by the strength of the brand, etc. We are in this scenario requiring a lot of discipline.
I wanted to add on to this, Gustavo, as well. I think the customer's journey sometimes is unperceivable. In online, we are a destination for those categories to seize those products, seize the credit offering, and then they move into checkout in this direction. There was a very relevant evolution.
In one year, we were able to double the amount of sellers that were registered to be able to have the digital CDC. That is where you had an important lever as well with this increase in the base so that sellers can be enabled to perform this transaction. I think that also helped a lot.
Yeah. Finally, I think it's a process of lessons learned with all of the modeling. It's very different, right, for online channels and physical channels. There are a lot of different models, and we learn more about this, reinforce the base and potential in the future as we expand into all of the channels. We can consolidate that, and that's a profile public that's very different. We get you more experience, more data to be able to prepare for this growth as well.
Very clear, guys. Thank you.
Thanks, Gustavo. I'll pass the next to Iago at Genial. Iago, you may proceed.
Hi, good afternoon, Renato, Elcio, and Gabriel. Thanks for this. I have three questions here on our side. One is about the Buy Now, Pay Later to Crediário. I've seen a bit of consistency in your results. In this equation where you talk about reaching the EBITDA margin of double digits in the next three years, up until where are you willing to move in the direction of the over 90 days? The second one is about the point that Elcio mentioned. If you look at the indicators for credit granting online, and you compare this with physical brick-and-mortar here, I'm talking about 1P and 2P. I wanted to know if this overnight 90 NPL really changes, right, compared to the physical stores. The last one is about services.
I saw you really advance in this, and I wanted to know if the service issue, especially when you consider the ads and insurance and extended insurance, if this is also advanced with the sale of the products. If not, I want to understand what's the strategy to make the products more attractive. If possible, I know not everyone can break down the numbers, but how much does this represent in the ROS revenue in the digital channel with these two services? That's it.
Yago, first, about the Buy Now, Pay Later and the Crediário and how we can reach the double-digit margin and up until where we're headed. We don't want to have to face any more risks than we have today. When I look at the indicators, like over 90%, we're comfortable up until 9%.
When we reach 8.4%, then I'm leaving cash on the table, but I also don't want to go over 9%. Naturally, it'll be below 9%. We always work and operate in this, and we consider 9% to be a good number. When we look at the net loss, it's at most this percent per quarter, right, with extremely high value creation, etc. It makes a lot of sense. Of course, we have to consider the targets. Like, oh, you said you could, but no. Anyways, the macro from a more aggressive approach kind of makes us tighten things a bit more and preferring to deliver maybe a little less growth or profitability than credit risk, right? That's the company's approach. We're not going to stretch out too much to reach double digits and then kill our Buy Now, Pay Later business.
When you look at the second question on online versus offline, we have a very similar indicator for delinquency. What changes as 3P improves its average value, where it considers having maybe greater Buy Now, Pay Later penetration, where it maybe makes a little more sense to have this, but it would be to have a mark that's maybe similar. An average ticket that's smaller as well. We imagine we'll be working towards having a very specialist 3P with high-end items, for example, where we're really gaining the market. We were already selling a lot, but when you look at the class A market, the 0.5% of the population, Casas Bahia was kind of out of this journey. We got into this journey, right? If you look at the brand perception, there was a share of mind that was really absurd in this niche, and we've gained share.
It's not that relevant for the total number, but it helps me with 3P and other things that we normally don't see together. When I grow the mix for the influences, if I grow in higher income, then the business kind of adjusts. Part of the 22 stores we closed in this quarter, 20 were shopping malls that worked with higher-income customers, some with BRL 3 million per month, right? Very relevant. Our decision is higher-income customers will service mainly through the digital channel. Yes, there are some flagships like the Mega Store. I want to reinforce this if you haven't seen this yet. You saw how beautiful the building is right in front of [Bahia]. Now it's called [Bahia] Casas Bahia. It's a Mega Store there, and it's a flagship with a lot of assortment. That services the higher-income public, but also the train users, right?
You can have a profitable mix. It really makes a lot of sense, right? I can't make the operation feasible with the high-income shopping malls with the consistency of the customers wanting to see digital prices in the store. Yes, we have more flexibility and it becomes a lot more competitive. What's most important is that we have additional services, extended warranty, and the Buy Now, Pay Later . When you look at the online channel growing more than digital, that kind of gets in the way with the efficiency of the services. The efficiency of the services is greater in the digital, sorry, in the physical store. I must advance more with this to offset the difference in the mix. If not, it's going to affect my gross margin, and then consequently, it'll affect the path to reach the two digits in EBITDA margin. We've been evolving.
There's a lot of results to be delivered, and we're really working on this a lot. This is very well structured, but it's a gradual advance, right? Now it's a more gradual process as we evolve consistently. We still haven't really found the digital identity, let's say, right, for this. We are still valuing investments that are going to work on sales in my ecosystem. We have a lot of offerings for this and to get my customers from an ecosystem and take them somewhere else, like a bus ticket, travels, etc. There's a lot of other possibilities, and we're still valuing our investments more. In the future, we'll have space for this, and that's going to unleash a potential that's even greater for retail media. We really needed the investments from the same players.
Since I concentrate in core, we've been working on a lot of refurbishing and we've been creating flagships, etc. We've been limiting a quicker advance, although we are growing 100%. It could be maybe four times what it is today. We see that here in Brazil, we could have maybe 4% of the GMV, and we're not even close to 1%. Very low still. We're moving along pretty well. When it comes to logistics, we've been growing really well. We have a big amount of customers, external customers, and working with our quotes. Of course, we've been prioritizing the different initiatives that really optimize the operational efficiency of my ecosystem. In the same sense, we're also preparing to advance more in external service provision that will contribute to the dilution of logistical costs and the increase of the revenue on services that help with the gross margins as well.
We have new systems, logistics, and our CapEx. Most of this is technology, and that will help us unleash this and really have a very different agenda when it comes to monetizing our logistical system. That's pretty much the panorama. Thanks for the questions, Iago.
Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on the work.
Thank you.
Thank you, Iago. Our next question comes from Gabriela Leme at Goldman Sachs. Gabi, you may proceed, please.
Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my question. I have a follow-up on the competitiveness on online, and I wanted to hear how you assess the recent movement of the horizontal marketplaces being more aggressive in the freight dynamics, especially if you've observed any effect of this in your customer acquisition costs and digital behavior as well.
Great. That doesn't affect us. The freight dynamic and the competitiveness is more in lower items.
Our average ticket in e-commerce is like 10 x. When they reduce this to be able to have free freight, etc., that didn't really impact our categories that were extremely different. We even see more of a rational competitiveness when we see paid media investments in performance. In our categories, it dropped absurdly. If you look at the month of August, there was a rationale of this investment from the generalist platforms and categories as televisions, etc., cell phones. That has been leading to a big electronic market with a big appetite for customers through paid media. We've also been reducing our exposure in these paid channels, which tends to reduce this peak in prices of the paid media, right? I think we could experience this a little bit better over time, but it's still early to talk about this. They're very recent movements.
We understand that the numbers that came before our plan really reinforce our thesis of being a specialist player with an assortment that is dedicated to these categories, which is something that has a lot of value. We see our NPS going up, and we have organic access growing as well. There's a lot of fundamental points that reinforce this and our thesis of being a specialist omnichannel player that can really meet the needs of all types of consumers through store and e-commerce footprints. Actually, there's a reduction in competitiveness.
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Our next question is from Alexandre from Morgan Stanley.
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Thanks guys for taking my question. I wanted to explore two points. One is about the logistics and your appetite as customers to bring this stock and if you need to maybe work on a investment in your logistical network. We know that the logistics in Casas Bahia is really focused on heavier items let's say, and so then the logistics and the organization is very different than the lighter items. So I wanted to know if you guys have to perform any items of investments but then also about advertisement. We talked about significant we saw significant growth. I think this is still an initiative that is maybe in its initial stages but we've been growing uh based on a relatively small base but I've I wanted to see how you're looking at the product mix and where you see the biggest opportunities for growth in this segment in the advertisement segment.
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Thank you, Ale. First about the logistics ecosystem and the needs for investments, this is different. Yeah. But we still have a lot of investments that have been made to our 3P, 1P, and everything else. So we'll need investments but it'll be more up ahead. We still have investments when it comes to technology and they work internally and externally and also the transformation i t's still going to be, but to sell this we can deliver a good level of service with pretty good footprint. And so what we see is we have more strength in the southeast commercially, right? We didn't structure this team. So we've been working on this with sellers that were in our marketplace with relationships that already existed. We didn't put cash into this and it's not that much cash actually in the commercial front to be able to expand this business right so we've been trying to improve the processes, and we're kind of obsessed with NPS.
We can only grow if we have the conviction that we're going to grow with the level of stability and without reducing the threat so we're not desperate, but yes it has been we have been growing. We performed some structural adjustments that will allow us to have a little more focus and we also expect that next year this will be more significant. So it's moving along pretty well. We have capacity and of course in the midterm we'll have investments because we need to expand and create other networks. But of course, that will be joint process when we grow our fulfillment to third parties that becomes more competitive to be able to transport my own one with my structure because my transporter is not the total does not perform the total amount of this, and sometimes it's a market issue right so this business is growing as I gain more competitive advantage against scale and then I can optimize the root and grow in a more significant manner.
We see potential for growth that's very significant and a big part of this fulfillment would unleash part of 1P and that would be kind of exponential whatever I can bring as external I grow more in the internal ecosystem, but it's a it's a long-term transformation it's not immediate so when we consider retail media. I understand that we've had different bucks in the physical stores, and results are very positive, but we've been gradually increasing this. In physical stores, investments are heavier. Of course, they involve, for example, when they pay to have a store in store, they have to pay a reasonable price and then still build that.
When we say, "Look, we're going to just consider something simple in a store, but maybe it costs BRL 15,000, but if you put this in 1,000 stores, it's BRL 15 billion," no one's going to do this all at once. When you have 10 stores and then you experiment, then you have another 10 stores and so on. That takes place gradually. It is a really gradual process. I think it could be quicker, of course, but I understand that it's a lot at the same time. The priority is, of course, to advance commercially and in so many other fronts. Once again, with serenity, we'll advance as we can gradually. The value creation is absurd and the market share growth is almost immediate, so the payback is very short.
Then everyone needs to start understanding this and say, "Hey, next year I'm going to put in a little more of my budget," and then there's more results. It's not something that's trivial or the volumes of cash for a chain of 1,000 stores. Of course, it's heavy and we understand this, but we're forcing this to be able to grow the business as much as we can because there's a lot of opportunities. Thank you.
Thanks, guys. Very clear. Congrats.
Thank you, Alexandre. Our next question is from Wellington at Bank of America. Please, you may proceed, Wellington.
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Hi, good afternoon, guys. Good afternoon, Renato, Elcio, and Gabriel. I have some questions here on my side. The first one is about the gross margin dynamic. If you could break this down a little bit on the impact you had mentioned with the higher penetration of online, as well as a mix of mobile, it's a little greater. In this direction, I wanted to understand which levers you see to accelerate the same-store growth a bit. We saw that coming in in this quarter with growth a little more in line with inflation, with a more normalized basis. I want to understand if this growth level we could expect up ahead a little bit. If we can also consider the gross margin considering the mix between physical and online should remain as it is now.
My next question is about the Buy Now, Pay Later . and Crediário, if you could talk about a breakdown on how you're seeing credit granting between new customers and credit granting for the current customer base. From a perspective of new concessions, who do you guys think you'd be able to capture when it comes to credit granting? Those are my two questions. Thank you.
Great, Wellington. Thanks for that. First of all, the gross margin dynamic. If we look at the channel overall, on average, everything is very different when you consider this per category. We're not going to give you a breakdown of the margin differences in each category. In a consolidated basis, we have a gross margin of 9%, 10%, 11% greater in the physical store, right? That's, of course, to offset all of the occupation costs we have at the store.
When you look at e-commerce growing a bit more, you just have to consider the mix effect, which will affect the gross margin a bit. Among categories, you have a big difference of the gross margin. You have categories that are going to be 15% items or 25% all the way to 55% - 60% as some. When you compare one and the other, the difference is really big. When you look at the market share, if you gain more market share in phone services, that pushes a little downwards. If you grow more in furniture, that goes upward. When you consider this, there's a lot of stability, right? Because it's relevant, it grows a lot, and it's then kept pretty stable. There's a difference with the penetration of Buy Now, Pay Later, and services that helps.
Although it grows penetration, it's a revenue that brings in less penetration compared to store growth. We're not going to give you details now here about the numbers, but we can give you a little more color of the overall dynamic of how the mix works. That's why I say we've been discussing this internally, right? When we started off, we said, "No one should look at the gross margin because this business is really mix-oriented, but we also don't provide any other indicator to make it easier to look at the model." It ends up that the gross margin is the best reference. Let's look at it and understand the dynamic a bit. We've looked at how we can provide more clarity to this and facilitate everyone's understanding without opening up doors, let's say, that are not necessary and where I'm going to provide strategic information to competitors.
When we look at how we can unleash this same-to-same sales, I think there is maybe three points. A first point is productivity in sales. Here you have a lot of CRM and a lot of tools, AI, where we already expanded about 40%. This is really good because when they start making better money, you can attract better sellers that come in with their customer portfolios within the business.
Taking a lot CRM pricing. Eva is our virtual assistant. Each one has their own assistant. They can see what they're missing to sell to be able to get their bonuses, etc. That is the Crediário, the Buy Now, Pay Later , which is related to your other question. When I look at the addressable market for the Crediário, it's a lot greater than the current market. Of course, I have 116 million customers in my base. If I look at this, that's already significant. In the Crediário, I have less than 3%. It's a space with a big opportunity for growth. There are regional players that are operating where I'm at in niches that are so not relevant. The first campaign we had, just to show you here, focusing on the Buy Now, Pay Later we're in July. Before, we weren't actually talking about the Crediário, right?
Remember, it's very recent because up until September last year, I didn't have funding to grow. There was a lot of demand. That's where we were always trying to be conservative, etc. The potential market's huge. We have a go-to-market strategy that's really well-defined. We're improving this. We then incorporate new things. To really press the trigger, we must unleash this and improve other operational aspects, credit lines that have a better advantage. I don't want to generate excessive demand with a funding cost that's still too high. We'd rather have a higher offering of credit than demand to be able to facilitate negotiation with these investors to have more competitive funding because our elasticity is really big. Here, when you have some reduction in the interest curve, where you can see things are getting a little better and I can charge a little more, I continue to price this.
That's where you have a gain in growth. I think we'll see this stronger in the second semester, the end of 2026. Up until there, I think it's going to be very conservative, require a lot of discipline. The third lever is the assortment in stores. We're still working with restriction. Now it's started getting better. Verbally, it is excellent. My expectation, we weren't expecting to have such a positive welcoming. I thought it would take longer for everyone to view the benefits of this business. Verbally, it's really positive. The promise and competition on behalf of suppliers has also been simulating this, right? There's a struggle for market share. We understand this will bring in more assortment to the stores with more investments in the industry. There are a lot of indexes of prices that are better. That's great because it encourages consumption.
Along with suppliers and with the subsidies, that will help us to continue to gain the market. That is kind of the macro view on how we've been structuring this to guarantee the consistency and the increase of the same-store sales. Of course, here, the commitment is profitability when it comes to growth, but we do see the potential for growth.
Okay. Thank you. Very clear, Renato.
Thank you.
Now I'm going to pass the forum to you for us to wrap up. We have no other questions, so we can end the call.
Thanks, Gabriel, and thanks, everyone. I just wanted to highlight that the main message here is the execution capacity has been proven. We've been, for seven quarters, consecutively delivering consistently improvement in the margins and evolution in the operations. From a capital structure, the confidence gain is also evident with the constant transformation of the capital structure we've been able to do. Now, no doubt, we have a stronger transformation that will unleash other levers and strategies and opportunities.
The final message is we're optimistic with the operational aspects and more prepared to have a great third quarter, more prepared for a Black Friday that's going to be a lot stronger than what we had in the past. If we compare the company now or two years ago, we really can't compare. We're aware that we have to improve the capital structure so we can have a pretty lower leverage and financial expenses that also lower, where we can generate results and value and then really discuss this growth cycle. We're only going to be able to do this when we reach that point. We still have this journey ahead of us, but it's all in line with our plan, very well-structured and good milestones. We can actually anticipate these strategic milestones every quarter.
We're happy about the execution so far and aware that we have a macro challenging environment for us to face. Thank you all for the trust. Let's buy, take advantage of the special deals. We have great things to buy, access our app, and you'll check it out. If you have televisions, flat-screen televisions, mobile phones, launches, a lot of home appliances and utilities, everyone needs to buy their new home appliances. Take a look at our stores. Take care. Bye-bye. Have a great afternoon.