Companhia Brasileira de Alumínio (BVMF:CBAV3)
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Apr 28, 2026, 5:07 PM GMT-3
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Earnings Call: Q2 2024

Aug 8, 2024

Amábile Silva
Investor Relations and Market Intelligence Manager, Companhia Brasileira de Alumínio

Hello. Good morning, everyone. I'm Amábile Silva, the Investor Relations at CBA. Welcome, everyone, to our earnings call for the second quarter of 2024, which will have Luciano Alves, our CEO, Camila Bello, the company's CFO and Investor Relations Officer. Please be advised that this event is being recorded, and all participants will only be listeners during the presentation. We will then start the Q&A session, when participants can raise their hand on the Raise Hand button on the platform to submit their questions via audio, or submit questions through the Q&A button on the platform. The presentation will be available on the investor website, where we'll also provide the recording of the event after it's completed.

Before we proceed, we would like to clarify that some of the statements contained in this presentation may include statements that represent expectations about events or future results, which rely substantially on overall economic conditions, political conditions, and commercial conditions in Brazil and in global markets, and government regulations that exist between other factors. Operational data could affect the performance at CBA and could lead to significantly different results than those listed in such future statements. Moving on to the presentation. Now we're gonna pass the floor on to Luciano as he starts with the presentation with the main highlights. Please, Luciano, we can proceed. Hi, Amábile. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for participating once again in another earnings call for CBA.

I wanna start talking about how we have been advancing on the implementation of our strategy, and I wanna give you some examples that are quite interesting in the last quarter. So first of all, in April, we had the startup of the dry waste disposal project. This is a project you already know about, and we've been talking about it ever since the IPO. It's part of the list of projects that we listed in the IPO, and this is a technology, this press, that is already consolidated in the market, and it performs the disposal of dry waste from aluminum production. And we have this waste with about 45% solid, and with this project, this solid part will be 75%. So 75% solid, 25% liquid.

So with this, we have the Palmita l dam, which will have a safe for operation, and we have the increase of the life cycle of this dam through the long term. We also have a potential upside in this project that's still not in our case, but it's something we've monitoring because the things we're working on, which is this project will also make it possible to have the use of this waste for other applications. So you can produce, for example, some raw material for the cement market. You could also produce other raw materials for other markets, and these are initiatives as subproducts that we could maybe generate additional gains in this CBA project. Then, the second point that's really important is the commercial side. We have to talk about this. You'll see this in the numbers Camila will share.

We really had a quarter that was very good. The Brazilian market has been presenting very good results. We have a sales mix that's even more concentrated on products that we consider higher added value. And I wanna highlight in this quarter two points: our volume of the ingot, and this is mainly used for the light alloy wheels in the auto industry, and also for the packaging sector. But this is really something that we've seen as an acceleration in the consumption of this segment. And about CapEx, it's worth mentioning that in the first half of the year, we had a concentration of 62% of our total CapEx in expansion and modernization projects. So it's not just for the maintenance, but especially in the expansion and modernization.

This was already expected, but you can see our actual capacity to deliver the expansion and modernization projects we were talking about. In our operation, in the furnaces, we have really good indicators, as you've seen in the numbers we disclosed, with the utilization rates that are, in this quarter, about 97%. So this is one of the best levels ever since the third quarter of 2022, almost two years ago, where we had this level of utilization, and you can see this reflected in the increase of liquid aluminum. So we had 88,000 tons and, in this quarter, 91,000 tons, and so in the pot room. So this is our stability. We expect to have this natural increment of volumes when you compare the current year versus the previous year.

So we've also seen a major recovery in our results in this quarter for the EBITDA and FCL, and this is due to the greater volume I've been talking about, especially with the VAPs, which provides a richer mix. The LME also went up, and the currency did as well. So LME and currency had an important impact in this quarter. We're gonna talk about this, and we can actually discuss this more in the Q&A session. At this moment, the LME already went back to a level of about $2,200, and in this quarter, there was a level that was even higher than this.

So now, in the end of July and beginning of August, we have a level of $2,200, but currency is very different than what it was before. We were able to achieve this LME level in our results in the last few months, but that was when the currency was closer to $5. Now, with the currency closer to $5.50 or $5.60, the scenario changes a bit with the profitability of our business. On the next slide, I'm gonna talk about the main highlights in our ESG fronts, where we are more and more consolidated as a reference in the market. So I'm gonna talk about some topics. First of all, climate change.

At CBA, alongside other 51 companies that are associated to the Brazilian Council for Sustainable Development, we signed a document defending the urgent creation of the regulated carbon market in Brazil, that intends to encourage responsible corporate practices, and also so that Brazil can fulfill its international commitments for reduction on emissions. We also started another project to support public management to incentivize practices to fight climate change in the regions where we are present. This program started in Boiá, in Minas Gerais, and in Juquitiba, in São Paulo, basically where we diagnose the main risks and populations that are affected by the climate changes, that are gonna guide the development initiatives for the municipalities.

When it comes to biodiversity in July - in June this year, we had the Botucatu Reserve, and we signed a term to officialize the Cerrado Legado Verde, this area in Goiás, and this is a new preservation unit in the state, which will also make us the first in the biome of the Cerrado in Brazil. So this is a pioneer project intended to preserve the Brazilian Cerrado legacy, where we can have a green economy there instead of traditional businesses, and we have multiple use of that land, about 32 hectares. Now, about our awards. We received an award in the mining sector, steel and metalwork sectors, and this award highlights organizations that had a more relevant contribution to the sustainable development in Brazil, and the case we wrote was for the recycling processing unit at Metalex.

And besides this, CBA and Metalex will have been once again recognized and awarded by GPTW, Great Place to Work. And when it comes to Alux, it was the first time we entered, and we also got the certification this year. And then finally, I want to highlight that we also had our third edition of Diálogo CBA in the ESG topic, and this recording is also available. The topic this year was value chain, and we had important levels of participation from strategic clients and brand owners, and also discussing topics about sustainable development and also aluminum as an ally in the energy transition. We had participation from Dow Chemical, Impacto Bag, and Marcopolo. So if you didn't get a chance to watch it yet, I recommend that you watch this on our IR website.

So on the next slide, I'm going to give you an overview of the global aluminum market and in Brazil as well. In the second quarter, the global market was at a deficit, $246,000 tons. There was a seasonal drop in the first quarter of the year, and the demand in China was recovered in this second quarter, mainly due to the acceleration of the electrification sectors for transportation, which levered this indicator to the highest levels in history, reaching 11 million tons of consumption in this period. On the other hand, the civil construction numbers continued to be bad, which generates concerns in the market in the short term, with an expectation for a seasonal reduction of the demand in the next few months.

Throughout the rest of the world, there was also recovery in demand, reaching levels that are similar to those as the second quarter of 2023. Then on the offering side, we had the Yunnan Province that had closed, shut down part of their capacity in November 2023 due to the high water crisis, started resuming this idle capacity from March this year onwards. But in the end of this month, they've already started operating at full capacity once again. So we've actually talked about this in the last call, but these are closures that had already taken place in China for years in the Yunnan Province, and there is a possibility for us to have new shutdowns in the dry period, which is at the end of the year. So let's keep our eyes open to understand the trends about the capacity there.

On the next slide, we want to talk about the market a bit. So with the increase in the demand and this deficit market in the quarter, as I mentioned, stocks in consumption days have dropped to 55 days in the first quarter to 51 days in the second quarter. If we take a look at the official stocks, there was a relevant input of metal in May, which made the LME stocks go to over $1,000,000 tons for the first time. But this was caused by one trader that had a transfer of the stocks that are non-official to the official stocks. So it was just like this movement from a non-official stock for LME to an official LME stock.

So in the next slide, I'm going to talk about the behaviors of LME and the premiums for the quarter. So in the second quarter, we had an LME with a high, 50% increase, with an average of about $2,520 per ton. And the main impacts that positively impacted the price of the metal in this period were the improvement in the sense in the market, with a greater appetite from investors making the net positions in the stock exchange long versus short would reach the highest levels in the last two years, which was the most important effect in the price of aluminum. Another point that also impacted us was the peak in copper.

We had this correlation between both of these, copper and aluminum, because they're substitutes, and there was a relevant increase in the price of copper in the last quarter. So aluminum kept up with this, and historically, we can see this trend for the substitution of copper and aluminum, where you see the price of both metals going from four to five times, which is what happened in the last quarter. So when we combine these two factors, you have the price of metal reaching the highest levels ever in the end of May, and we reached almost to $600-$2,695 per ton.

And with this worsening in the macro scenario, prices went back, and by the end of July, it got back to the same levels, as I mentioned, about $2,200 per ton. And I wanna remind you that this trend in the pricing we had was a lot more financial because of our stock positions. But if we look up ahead and we have a recovery in the demand that's expected with the movement of this reduction of the stock in the interest rates throughout the year, and maybe a controlled offering, as we'd imagine there is, because we have China with a cap, a capacity cap, and very few projects to increase capacity in the rest of the world. If we have this increase in demand in the next quarters, this should naturally reflect in a new peak in prices in the future.

So about the premiums, Rotterdam and Midwest ended the quarter with an average that was higher than the first three months in the year, and the higher logistical costs also explained this, besides a peak in the actual LME. So that, of course, pushes the premiums. And then, of course, in the end of July, along with this drop, we had a slight slowdown in the premiums, making the levels a little lower, but the premiums have actually been at pretty healthy levels for the industry. On slide nine, I'm gonna talk about the Brazilian market a bit more, and I think I told you guys in that initial slide, but demand in Brazil is very positive. In the second quarter, that's also the case, and I wanna highlight the transportation segment, especially heavy-duty vehicles.

As you can see in both graphs up ahead, we had an increase in sales of truck inputs and materials with greater commercialization with four-axle trucks. And still in heavy-duty vehicles, we had an increase of the actual bodies for these vehicles. And since the volume of deliveries is still below what is expected for this period, the expectation is really positive for the demand that is still up ahead, which gives us good perspectives in the aluminum plates and sheets market. In the packaging segment, especially for sheets, we had solid evolution with an increase in production for metal packaging when it comes to comparing with 2023 and also in the previous quarter. Some effects here.

We are basically connecting these effects to lack of supply in the stocks, and, that's basically the consumption of stocks and also the drops in unemployment. So besides this, you have a natural in the demand for this kind of packaging and greater awareness among consumers. So this is a market that's been doing pretty well, and it's one of our leaders, basically. And in the truck market, the demand's still positive and consistent. This is reflecting what we've been seeing with the aluminum inputs. And in the first six months, we can see this is a very important year for advances in the Brazilian Energy Matrix. The country completed the first semester with 168 new hydropower plants for energy production, and just in the month of June, we had 27 new plants, so 10 of these are photovoltaic.

About the local premium, we had an increase of 6% when you compare it to the previous quarter. That was a summary. We'll be available in the Q&A session, and now I wanna invite Camila, our CFO and Investor Relations Director, to talk about our financial performance. Thank you so much. Thanks, Luciana. Good morning, everyone. In this quarter, we sold $128,000 tons of aluminum as an important increase compared to the previous periods, mainly due to the recovery of our pot rooms and better market conditions overall. The sales mix concentrated in products that have greater added value, and primary and transformed, or industrialized products happened.

So the highlight for primary sales, in regards to the second quarter last year and the first quarter this year, were because of the silicon ingot for transportation sectors, which was also responsible for this increase in sales, as you can see in the external market this quarter. In industrialized products, we had an increase that was mainly for sheets for the packaging sector. Then in recycling, we had a really good performance, and that was through the billets for self-construction and residential refurbishing. On the next slide, we have the energy balance. So I start talking about the drop in our own generation volume, which was due to a drier period as usual, due to the seasonality of the hydro generation.

So 2023 was a really good year when it comes to rainwater, so that's why it's important to consider this factor when we perform our comparisons. So when we look at this, lower generation, we also had a lower dilution of fixed costs, which is why we see an increase in the average cost, for self-generation—for our own generation in this quarter. When it comes to the volume of contracts, last quarter, we mentioned we ended a few contracts without penalties to be able to have a more balanced, balance for our current, production needs. And the aluminum production, we were able to postpone, so we were able to keep this reduction of 60—a reduction of 60 MWh, on average, in regards to the previous year.

About this average cost for this contract part, we had a drop of 5% compared to last year due to a lower volume. But in regards to the first quarter this year, there was an increase of 5%, and this is because you have a swap of a relevant contract we hired last year, which is dollarized. So in this energy slide, the biggest consumption is because of the recovery of operation and full capacity with our pot rooms. So I wanna highlight that our own generation is consumed mainly for the liquid aluminum production, so it's a cost in this segment in our financial statements. When we have exceeding amounts of energy, then this is allocated in the energy segment.

Then on the next slide, we have the cost of production for net for liquid aluminum, which increased 6% compared to the previous quarter. We continued to have a drop in the prices of the main inputs. Costs in the anode paste, which was only 7% in this quarter, reflecting an improvement of 11% in the petroleum coke and in alumina. Despite the price that's pretty stable, the increase compared to last quarter was because of the recovered alumina, which is during the productive process, it can accumulate below the pot rooms, and then you can have occasional use. In energy, I've already explained that the increase is due to lower self-generation, and then we have to use more energy in the contract portfolio, which leads to a higher average cost.

And finally, we had a drop of 5% in the other variable costs, which reinforces the improvement in our KPIs with the recovery. About the CPV or COGS, the increase in the consolidated numbers for CBA compared to the two periods we're discussing was due to the increase in sales. In our energy business, this was mainly due to a lower volume that was left over as exceeding power available for sales. On the next one, you can see the increase of our net consolidated revenue, and this was a reflection of what we had already been discussing so far. So an increase in the volume sold, an improvement in our mix, better prices with the peak in LME, and also the loss of value when comparing the Brazilian real and the U.S. dollar.

So with this, we have a strong recovery in the consolidated EBITDA margin for this quarter, which went to 16%. Now, as we talk about the CapEx, the physical advance of the products, projects has been in line with what we've been sharing with you. We've kept the concentration of payments in the first semester of this year in line with our expectations, because the first, the main project in the year with the disposal of dry waste, was completed in April. Another project that we're expecting to complete is the Rio. It's a technology developed and patented by CBA, which will allow us to separate and recycle the polymers for packaging that are multi-layered, and we'll expect it for the second semester.

And I want to remind you that 48% of our CapEx for modernization and expansion, from those that were announced ever since the IPO, were performed at this moment. So when you look at the cash flow, we had a cash generation of BRL 33 million. Despite this, strong advance in the CapEx and the negative effects of the working capital here, in the working capital, we had a reduction in stocks at about BRL 50 million, which is mainly due to the increase in volumes of the sales in that period with the primary products. But in exchange, we had BRL 93 million in reduction in our balance payable to suppliers because of some specific, one-off payments, and also the reflex of the price of the inputs, which is natural in the working capital.

We also had an occasional effect with the dividends, which was about BRL 79 million, and here we continue to be focused on managing our working capital for the next quarters. Now, as we talk about the debt profile, in this quarter, we were able to fundraise about BRL 498 million, with BRL 73 million as an additional release from the BNDES. It's a different facility worth of modernization of pot rooms, Pot Room three, and some investments in recycling. And BRL 425 million were fundraised due to MCE credit notes for exports, and there's a specific single amortization in seven years. We swapped the real and CDI to pre-dollar rates, and with this, we have a very attractive cost for the timing, which was 6.7% a year in dollars. So this is related to our sustainability targets.

When it comes to the increase of our debt, as you can see on the slide, the main reason was the currency variation, which increased the balance of the gross debt BRL 381 million, and then you also generated a worsening in the marked to market, which is natural to happen because you have most of the debt in dollars. And then, of course, these effects are accounting effects due to the currency variation in the future curve. And even so, the financial leverage would drop to 5.66x, and that reflects the recovery in our EBITDA. We still don't have covenants or financial obligations regarding the financial performance for CBA, and we continue to work to leverage this, which is 2x. Our financial policy.

So about the amortization schedule, as I mentioned in the previous slide, these fundraising initiatives strengthen our cash position, which will allow us to have a reduction in the gross debt in the next quarter. So our strategy is to perform some prepayments of debts in the soon. The extension of the average term of debt will be due to two factors: the anticipated payment of debts. The prepayments will lead to about $800 million, and we're gonna have the extension of the average term. And with this, we also have this amount returned by the BNDES, which is about $150 million in the short term.

That'll be maturing in the short term, and we should give it back due to the postponing of part of the modernization projects for some of the pot rooms. So here on this slide, we wanna highlight once again the initiatives in the second quarter that reinforce the resilience of our business and that continue to strengthen our competitive advantage in the company. So when it comes to operational performance, our smelters are operating with 97% utilization rate, the highest rate ever since the third quarter of 2022, reestablishing our productivity in the pot rooms with an increase even in the $88,000 tons to $91,000 tons. And so we are still concentrated on the production concentration for the sales of these products, and these are the products that have greater added value, searching for ways to optimize our portfolio more.

An example of this is the increase of the volume sold for ingots, and also our Primora, which continues to follow along with this structure. In the power front, we've reduced the exceeding amount within this year. About financial performance, the highlights were the recovery of EBITDA and fundraising that will improve with the prepayments and the debt profile on discipline and consequence, and consistency in the advances of the CapEx. Finally, I wanna share with you guys some vision on the fundamentals that guide our future. Despite the price of aluminum getting back to the levels in the beginning of the year, the dollar is following an opposite direction with major valorization compared to the real, as we have most of our revenue dollarized, considering contrary to our costs.

So all of the aluminum revenue is in dollars, contrary to the costs that are mainly in reais. We have a competitive advantage in this equation. As I've already mentioned, the recovery of the EBITDA in this quarter already reflected a reduction in our leverage, and we continue to search for the target, in our policy, which is 2x. The energy transition should support our demand for aluminum in the next years, and as an expectation from this demand going to $3 million tons in 2020 to $1 5 million in 2030. We see this significant increase just considering that aluminum has broad expansion of, applications, and when it comes to the electric vehicles, the use of aluminum is 40% higher than in the production of conventional vehicles. Some caution points.

First of all, we are turning the smelters on again in the Yunnan Province, which will probably make the surplus market, since the demand has demonstrated some signs of weakness with the slowdown in the real estate market. On the other hand, there's also the possibility of new closures in Yunnan in a period with greater water scarcity, as has been going on historically, besides other better perspectives for the demand in the end of the year. So the demand in the rest of the world is pretty much at the same level. Historically, the months of summer in the northern hemisphere impact this indicator negatively, and then a recovery would probably be expected in the end of the year.

But the PMI for manufacturing in the U.S. is above the expansion line, as Luciano has mentioned, and this has been going on for six consecutive months. And in Europe, despite being below the expansion line, the levels of the regional PMI are above those in 2023. So we have positive signs up ahead. And finally, we saw that in this quarter, in May, the aluminum prices reached a higher level, the highest levels in the last two years, and now in the end of July, got back to the levels in the beginning of the year.

This was mainly due to a more financial position from investors, but the most important is really the fundamentals that we continue to see as very positive in the midterm, because of the commitment with China, with this cap for production, $45 million tons in the country, and they're getting closer to this. So this should lead to a more balanced out market from now on. And also because of the increase in the demand related to the energy transition, what has already been a reality actually in China as one of the main levers for this demand. Thank you all so much for your time and attention. Now I'll pass the floor on to Amábile, so we can begin our Q&A. Thank you, Camila.

Well, guys, before we move on to the Q&A, I just wanna invite you all to the next CBA Day, which will happen on the 16th of October. In this event, besides updating our CapEx program that we've already been mentioning to you, we're going to share the evolution of our strategy and CBA's plans for the future. Soon, we're also going to share more details on this event, and now we'll begin our Q&A session. And I wanna remind you all that you can raise your hand using this feature on Zoom to submit your questions in audio or send your questions by Q&A on the platform. And the questions that are not answered can be sent through IR to CBA's IR department, that will answer these soon after. Now, we're gonna start off with our first question. It comes from Rafael Barcelos from BB.

Please, Rafael, you may proceed. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for taking my questions. I actually had two quick questions. The first one is about the CapEx. I understand you guys will be discussing the CapEx expectations for the CapEx next year during the Investor Day. But I just wanted to understand the main factors you guys are gonna consider in the projects, as well as what the company is discussing currently, to help us understand what would be the CapEx for next year. And also in the second semester, so we can understand what you guys are considering as payments and what can help us understand the cash generation for the second semester. And the second question, which would be about costs.

We've noticed an improvement in the operational performance, but maybe it would be interesting to get what your perspectives are about the cost performance now in the second semester, and also if you could talk about the cost of energy. And then when we talk about a longer term, which would be the main projects and opportunities when it comes to costs that you are seeing, for the company in the long term? Thank you very much. Hi, Rafael. Thank you so much for your questions. I think I'll start off with the CapEx, and first, about the second semester, I wanna remind you, we can't provide a guidance for the CapEx in the year, but what we've been discussing is about a level that's pretty similar to last year, and we already had 62% of the CapEx this year in the first semester.

So that's pretty much what we're seeing for the second semester. And when we look at this up ahead, the sustaining value of about BRL 500 million is the number we talk about. That makes sense. And all the rest about modernization and expansion projects, we're talking about the line we're gonna follow at CBA Day, looking at this up ahead. And this is a segment we're just keeping up with the strategy we currently have. So these are new investments that are connected to... Well, investments in primaries that could reduce the bottlenecks in the operations to be able to reopen Pot Room One.

There's also recycling, which is another important pillar for investments we've already worked on with potential for growth and consolidation in our market, considering this business, which is still relatively new, when we talk about processing scraps and obsolete procedures as well. Overall, energy is, like, a big competitive advantage for us here. For the competitiveness of our primary aluminum and in transformed items, this is really in line with the innovation and customize, customized projects are thin sheets, which is really important, not only in Brazil, but also in the external markets, where these could generate even more added value. So we were able to explain what this line is all about, and I don't know if that is clear. Oh, yes, that's clear. Thank you.

So about costs, we really have the energy, when it comes to the usual seasonality. So the second quarter gets a little worse because you reduce the rain, and the third quarter, it's still a little drier, and in the fourth, you see the year closing at about reaching this. Of course, there's a rain risk. Of course, this year, it's worse than when we compare to 2023 because it was very good with rainwater flows. But there is an expectation that the year will close up very much in line with how it started. Let's see how this follows. But the good news is that when it comes to the inputs, as I mentioned, we've also been having reductions in each quarter, and the anode paste is stronger.

Of course, if we were to compare the second quarter for the main inputs, soda, gas, petroleum coke, and the drop was about 30% in the price, so that's very relevant. And when you compare the second quarter of this year with the first quarter this year, you can also see an additional drop. So this... We don't see this from the inputs side, that any kind of relevant aspect that could lead to a recovery in prices or something. We should probably keep up with this level that's lower, and that will help recover our margins and offset most of the costs of energy in this drier period. Now, I wanna talk about the currency, because I also mentioned this quickly.

In the end, currency for CBA is very positive because at the end of the day, all of our sale is aluminum plus dollar, and what we do is we what we have the lag of the revenue that's pretty short. It's like two months, and that's the average for primary and industrialized products. Then we have a third quarter with a positive effect, considering a lag, combining the LME for the second quarter and another current level when compared to the second quarter, which is positive.

These are positive because there's an impact in our revenue for aluminum, and also when it comes to costs, we have less than 50% of the costs in dollars, so they're mainly in reais, and this is really reinforcing our competitive advantage because you have this combination that's positive when you consider this, second semester, if the LME and currency are kept at the current levels. That's perfect, Camila. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you, Rafael, for your question. Our next question comes from Guilherme Nippes at XP. Please, Guilherme, you may proceed. Good morning, Luciano, Camila, and Amábile. Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you. I have two questions here on our side.

The first question is, we understand that most of the prices follow this market dynamic, but I wanted to hear if we could expect a better mix during the second semester with products with greater added value. You talked to me about the sales of ingots and aluminum, if we could expect an improvement. And also, when it comes to recycled products, we saw a sequential improvement in these volumes. They had been a little more pressured in the next quarters, but also wanted to hear what we could expect in the second semester for recycled products. That's. Those are the two questions I had. And so when we talk about volumes, we have already kept a pretty rich mix in the sales.

So what we can see as visibility is, a lot greater than normal, and we can see this, portfolio of future sales that is greater than what it was historically, which means the demand has been very good. And, you can expect that we'll probably continue to have a rich mix. But of course, this is, probably we could say that, we would keep, a very rich mix, of sales from now on. So this is, a pretty good, cause. Naturally, we'd have, good results up ahead, but of course, the, these results depend on LME and currency, but, of course, that could impact us a bit. And then Camilla also talked about the currency issue, so I wanna reinforce this point she mentioned. I think currency is something that's very positive for us.

So even with the drop in LME, that's at a level of about 200. If the currency remains at a level as it is, then it should probably be a good moment for results. And about recycling, just need to segregate it a little bit. So you have the use of scrap and operation for different kinds of products, and then we have a single operation, Alux and Metalex, which are specific for very different segments. Alux is for the auto sector and Metalex for civil construction and also self-construction. So that's the products that are like billets, but it may be billets that are more directed to self-construction applications and not major construction projects. So as I mentioned, we're gonna continue at this pace. Alux has been doing very well.

The auto sector has a pretty good demand, not only for Alux's products, but also for ingots and aluminum. Where we still have volumes that are below what we would like are at Metalex, where specifically for this market of self-construction and do it yourself, basically. So we could expect a increment in the volumes of recycling, but we just have to be cautious about how, in the Metalex case, it really depends on a stronger return from the self-construction market. For CBA, it's different because we also sell to the civil construction market, but the billets at CBA are for big construction projects and different types of applications, so this is a market that's doing very well. It's part of our VAPs and also part of this additional volume you saw in this semester.

So for CBA, the sale of billets has been very good, but there's still an additional volume we could capture in the future. But then, of course, that will depend a lot on the sector that maybe is recovering a little slower than what we expected. Perfect. Thank you. That's super clear. Thank you, Guilherme. The next question comes from Edgard Souza from Itaú BBA. Please, Edgard, we can proceed. Hi, guys. Good morning, and thanks for taking my question. I had two, actually. The first one, Camila talked about was the price performance, and I wanted to understand a bit more about how this lag takes place with your price versus the LME.

So if we take a look at this, we already had this kind of conversation a few times, but if we consider two months in the lag, maybe we would have space for a third quarter, even with this drop? to have maybe price. So if we were to consider the actual LME, right, without considering currency variations, and we consider price performance, that is still better in the third quarter versus the second quarter. I just wanted to know if this understanding makes sense and if it makes sense to look at this analysis with a two-month lag, and if you could help us remember why, what's the reason for this lag, and give us some more information. My second question is maybe related to a follow-up in the cost question from Barcelos.

I think the dynamic we saw in this quarter with a result of energy that was positive, affecting the cost of liquid aluminum, which is something we already expected, and we had already talked to you guys about this, and you were kind of already guiding this. But if we look at the delta and the cost per ton of liquid aluminum, and we multiply this by the produced liquid aluminum, maybe we have an increase in costs close to maybe, which is similar to the results you guys mentioned. But then we have this lag of the timing for this liquid aluminum. So my question is, first of all, do you guys understand that this level of costs of energy within liquid aluminum should keep some kind of a stability for the next quarters?

If the lag or the impact of this higher cost of energy would also be in line with that lag, you guys had discussed about BRL 6 million for this to be approved in your results. So we're finally seeing an energy result that's a little better, but maybe we'll only see this impact on your COGS next year. Does this make sense? Thank you all for your questions. Thank you, Edgar, for your questions. Starting off with the lag, that's exactly it. You're right, the average is two months. It's an average. We have contracts where we can that they take place in one month or three months. We also work with different segments and different profiles of contracts.

This is a combination of the frequency and the closures, but also when we're looking at, for example, this year, we have a higher volume that's even above normal. We also have a frequency in the updates of the contracts that have already been approved, so that's why this frequency of two months is an average. But that's exactly what you can expect when you can see the LME plus currency, and the lag for aluminum for the past. Now, when it comes to costs, the lag we're discussing is six months, but of course, this is an average of costs that's very different.

So of course, you have the logistics, the arrival time between the purchase and utilization, and the stock timing as well, since we're integrated in all of the different productive phases, and also understanding the reality with this product. And that's why this average is not a clear behavior, let's say, and we're gonna mention this when we have our historic behavior between the cash costs and CPV. But generally, it works, and when we talk about energy specifically in the third quarter, we're already start seeing the effects of the first quarter this year. It's not such a high cost as it is now in the second quarter.

But we'll start seeing the effects of this cost of energy a little higher, comparing—which comparatively is worse because of the rain generation, and all of this operation is moving along very well. So when we see a third quarter, just to wrap this up, there is already a bit of the higher cost in the COGS when it comes to energy and other items. There's always, like, this transfer and then we also have the third quarter of this period, where you still had a higher level of LME in this second quarter. Perfect. Thank you so much, Camila. And if I can just follow up on this energy point a little more, how have you guys been looking at this split for 2025?

There was an issue with the negotiation for contracts you guys had signed. Not sure if last year, and there should be some kind of adjustment in these contracts in 2025. What's the magnitude we should be looking at with this increase in cost of contracts for 25? When it comes to energy contracts, really, our most relevant contract that we've been showing in our balance sheet had to be reprofiled. We not only had the swap to have this account in dollars, and which is also why this cost kind of keeps up with the dollar, which is a natural hedge. But also, although we, we also had to reprofile our pricing. After we did this in the beginning of last year, it was a little lower in 2023 and 2024.

This contract expires in 2028, and then it'll get back to the levels it was in, in 2022, now indexed at dollar and not the IGP-M, from 2025 to 2028. So we can expect an average price of portfolio in this group of contracts that's similar to what it was in 2022, and not on the 2023/2024 basis, because of this current factor. Okay, perfect. Well, thanks, Ed. And now the next question is from Ricardo Monegaglia from Safra. Please, you can proceed, please. Hey, guys. Do you guys hear me all right? Yes. Okay, thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions, one here. When we talk about nickel, we're also seeing the market expanding. I wanted to know if you guys have any news you could tell us about.

My second question is about working capital. We had some pressure in certain lines, as we mentioned here, with the drop in inputs, and I wanted to understand how we can imagine this evolution in this third quarter, if we can have some relief when we look at the total amount, and if we can have maybe a bigger need for this. That would be interesting. Thanks, guys. So maybe I can talk about nickel, and you can talk about the working capital. But about nickel, basically, on our side, we had this sales process where we decided to follow along with one part until we had the signing with many parties, and then after a single party, after the signing. And then we already had this basis of interested parties.

And then I think there's nothing new, really, when it comes to the increase in the market, but there's also a big interest from the other parties that we hadn't followed along with in this transaction. And our vision is that we would keep up with the price of the transaction at some moment in the future. So we continue to work with the other parties. We continue to have the analysis in the M&A processes, but we believe that we should keep up in the same way as we had already considered with the other party, with the actual sale of the asset. And please remind me about your second question, Ricardo. Yeah, so the evolution of the working capital in the third quarter. Okay. So great, we've been really focusing on working capital. There's some divestment opportunities.

We've seen a lot of volatility and instability in these points throughout last year due to the lack of stability in the pot lines. We had this effort for recovery, and we do believe there's opportunities to continue to work on this in the second semester and end the year with a level that's a little smaller than what we had in the beginning of the year. There's a challenge that's possible in the stocks, and there's two sides. So, you have this natural effect because of the price effect in the working capital.

On the other hand, we also have, when we have the full operation with availability and capacity to have high utilization rates and a pretty good mix, and the market has really good signs of keeping up with this, which would make us need a maintenance of the stock level. So when it's not that heated, we can reduce this a bit. Maybe we'll have stock more in line with what it is now to sustain this operation that's really good and very strong. So there's some opportunities.

It's difficult to foresee how we've been working on this, but on the other lines as well, we also had some increases in the accounts for customers and suppliers, but these are not effects we're seeing in the second semester, and this could lead to a release in working capital and finally, the CapEx. So we would naturally have a EBITDA continuing pretty strong, with a lower payout and this working capital as well. Thank you, guys. Our next question comes from Guilherme Rosito at Bank of America. Please, Guilherme, you may proceed. Well, good morning, guys. I have two questions here, actually, and the first one is about the cost of liquid aluminum.

When we look at this line by line, there's an increase of 37% in the energy line, when it comes to the liquid aluminum per ton, and this really calls our attention. So we know this is... When we look at the second quarter of 2023, the increase is 8%, and we'll be looking at your release, the increase of contracts and our own generation. None of these are above this 37%. So if you could help us understand what happened, if there's something related to the energy that's going on because of cheaper energy, and also maybe because you guys had more expensive energy. The second point, which is really positive, with the level of dividends they paid this quarter.

And so if you could just help us understand if this level between BRL 50 million and BRL 60 million is a level that we could expect up ahead, so around BRL 30 to 40 million. Thank you. Okay, great. So I can answer this one. Thank you all so much. About the energy in regards to this cost, I think the issue is the comparison. When we compare with 2023, there really is this first quarter that already reflects this a bit, and there's still this lag that has been performing. And so that's a little worse than what we saw in the beginning of 2023, and that weighs in when it comes to the rain generation. So, and that kind of consumes part of these contracts.

They have a higher average core price because of the swap, which is the most relevant contract we have, which is in dollars, and so there is a higher cost, and that's why the combination of more contracts and the cost of energy, due to the worse rain rates, and the average price outside with the balance energy balance being higher with the second quarter of 2024, these two factors kind of influence the results in the 30-some% of the cost increases, which we see. Great, so the 37% are compared to the third quarter of this year, that's why we. That calls our attention. So in 2023, you have this increase of 8%. Okay, perfect. Thank you.

So everything I mentioned was correct, but when we compare with 2023, you have this lag. And when we compare the second quarter with the first quarter this year, we have the currency issue with the increase of energy prices, which is valid for the co- for the cost of the contract, so the second quarter is already a little drier. And then, in this drier period, you have more contracts and the actual contract because the currency is a little more expensive. So maybe, one point that we should add on to is the rain period. Last year, we had a rain period that was super strong and extended, so we had good, generation throughout the year. But of course, this dropped in the second and third quarters, as that normally happens, but it was a pretty good generation.

This year, with the rain levels, we had conditions that were even below the historical average. I don't know if we can compare to 2021, which was a very drought or dry year, but I think rain rates also have an important influence in this comparison. About Intercom with the dividends, this influence in what you see in the working capital was BRL 79 million, and specifically for the Intercom dividends, which are already declared for payments, we'll have in the third and fourth quarters. So this is a level that's gonna be about BRL 40 million, which is already declared for payments that will have this cash impact in the third and fourth quarters. So this is the levels we're talking about. Perfect. Thank you all so much, guys. Okay, no problem, Guilherme.

Now we're heading to the end of our Q&A session, but we have one more here. The next question comes from Yuri Pereira, Santander.

Yuri Pereira
Equity Research Analyst, Santander

Good morning, everyone. Thank you. Just to ask, what do you see as marginal cost in the aluminum industry, excluding Chinese manufacturers, and if you're seeing a reduction of capacity in the future?

Thank you, Yuri. Then, I don't have the number by heart, but I can send you. But the operations outside China, you have different behaviors. Some manufacturers, like U.S. and Europe, with higher costs, other in the Middle East with lower costs, with a good energy matrix, and other manufacturers with intermediate cost, and it's difficult to tell you the average. So for all of them, and that include us, there is a improvement of costs throughout the last quarters. So inputs, they are in some levels. Some is still like pitch, and you have some normal ones and some call aluminum. And the cost of aluminum increased, and for those who call aluminum, maybe the costs are a little bit pressured, and it is a relevant part of the industry.

So it's difficult to tell you an amount, but there is a cost pressure of the industry. So the level of $2,200 to $2,300 is something that is, for some manufacturers, well, that situation, that we have lower margins or a lower generation of cash, depending on what you have. So we haven't heard any information on the closure of capacity per hour. However, the market was with little surprises. You had a lot of capacity operating, even in the level of $2,200, that wouldn't close. The capacities went, came back, all of them. They are all operating, but you always have the end-of-the-year problem, and eventually, they can remove, they can reduce capacity, and we don't see a European or a U.S. company, closing capacity.

Maybe we'll have a price level, lower or very lower for a long time, for that to happen. So our expectation, I may say, I wouldn't expect any change in the offer of these Western manufacturers. As you have today, the market, it would continue, and that all depends on how prices will behave. So I believe the exchange rate helps some. We had some exchange rates in the world that impacted, more or less, some manufacturers, and we have some benefits, and there is a devaluing of Brazilian Real, detached from other currencies, but we depend on the behavior of... Just to summarize, I would expect an offer that is pretty stable, no major change, waiting for the end of the year to see what is going to happen at the Yunnan Province.

As I've mentioned, the expectation that eventually we'll have a better demand for the future. We have a demand outside China that is not really good. It's bad with lower levels, but with some interest, low interest rate cases, and even if you have prices, you have some recovery, and that tends to be favorable to prices.

Amazing. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you, Yuri. Well, we reached the end of another presentation of our results, and if you have any further questions, please talk to us. I thank you, and now I hand the floor to Luciano for- and we see each other in the next call.

Thank you, Amábile. Thank you, everyone, and once again, we invite you to take part of CBA Day, so it's going to be in person. I would like to count on your presence. There is a lot of things for us to share with you, and hope to see you soon.

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