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Earnings Call: Q3 2023

Nov 8, 2023

Operator

Gentlemen, welcome to the Caixa Seguridade video conference call to discuss the earnings results of Q3 of 2023. This video conference is being recorded, and the replay can be found on the company's website at ri.caixaseguridade.com.br. This presentation is also available for download. To hear the audio in English, please click on Interpretation and select English. For a better experience, click on mute original audio. The presentation in English is also available in Caixa Seguridade's IR website, www.ri.caixaseguridade.com.br/en. Please note that all participants will be on mute during the presentation. Soon after, we will begin a Q and A session, where further instructions will be provided. Before proceeding, I would like to highlight that forward-looking statements are based on belief and assumptions of Caixa Seguridade's management and current information available to the company.

These statements may involve risks and uncertainties, since they relate to future events and are therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors, analysts, and journalists should bear in mind that events related to the macroeconomic environment, the segment, and other factors, well, could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in the respective forward-looking statements. Today, with us are Mr. Felipe Montenegro Mattos , CEO of Caixa Seguridade, and Mr. Eduardo Costa Oliveira, Finance and Investor Relations Director of the company. Now, I would like to hand it over to Mr. Felipe Mattos, that will begin the presentation. You have the floor.

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for participating in our earnings results for Q3 2023 of Caixa Seguridade. I am Felipe Montenegro Mattos, CEO, and Eduardo Costa Oliveira, Finance Director and Investor Relations Director.

We will present the results of the company regarding Q3 of 2023. We will start on slide three regarding our strategic execution. The highlights are launching new bonds during the period that were focused a public of lower income. I'm talking about ME, MEI, to provide this public access to our products and leverage the opportunity of value generation in our distribution network. In June, we launched the Consórcio da Gente . It presents new mortgage and light vehicle financing. This is for individual entrepreneurs and a captive public, very close to the CAIXA public. This can be done with to individuals with a monthly income of BRL 7,000 and companies that invoice up to BRL 360,000 a year.

We've already had BRL 300 million in our credit letters, and more, over 4 million customers have access to this product. Now, we have the Rapidex, that is the assistance. This is the version of assistance service plans, which is launching in August, aimed to meet the needs of individual micro-entrepreneurs. They have 24 hours for cars, motorcycles, and residents. We have specialized services in hydraulic jack for to change tires to help you with your car. Throughout the sales development, Caixa Seguridade is training and focused on the knowledge of products, customers, and market. During the quarter, we carried out over 2,400 training with over 26,000 participants between correspondents, employees, and partners.

In September, we had over 6,000 trainees for 68,000 participants, so we train our partners and our employees that are part of our distribution network, enabling better leveraging our sales opportunity. We have 51,000 employees and 20,000 partners that are part of our sales team and to announce our products. Now, Caixa Seguridade distributed BRL 1.5 billion in dividends regarding the six first months. According to what we announced to the market, we are above 90% of profit, and this is one of the major companies in terms of dividend payouts to its shareholders. On slide four, we have the ESG point that is very important, focused on the development more than last year's.

The first highlight is two companies. Here, we work with innovation in products with social-environmental focus. Here, we define proposals of new products to make up the sustainability portfolio. Caixa Seguridade will follow up the next stages of this process together with their investees as a result of each product in terms of impact and social and environmental value. In ESG, we have defined sustainability plans of all the companies of the group, and aligned with the announcement of the reports of sustainability as of 2020. Caixa Residencial has materiality. Caixa Private Pension , premium bonds, and credit letters started its sustainability reports. Caixa Seguridade was contemplated by the Gold Seal of GHG Protocol , as which standardizes reporting of greenhouse gas emissions.

The Gold Seal is highly reliable because this means that we have been audited and compliant and contemplated in Scope 1, Scope 2, and Scope 3 in direct emission. Caixa Seguridade has its own inventory and has worked with the investees to assess its emissions. This is a priority for Caixa Seguridade. Now, finalizing ESG, the company approved the creation of the sustainability team, made up of executives from different areas of the company to debate the socio-environmental matters in addition to climate. This is an important step to hone the decision process in sustainability in Caixa Seguridade. Now, on Slide five, we have the commercial highlights of the quarter. We start with Life, with BRL 608 million of written premiums. It has an all-time high growth, a growth of 6% vis-a-vis the same quarter of 2022.

This result was driven by a commercial campaign that generated greater amount of commercialization by a single payment that grew 7% when we compare it to the same period last year. Now, Mortgage totaled BRL 813 million in written premiums. This is, this is a growth of over 10% in comparison to the same period. Like, this is the ever-growing portfolio of mortgage, and also the written premiums, independent of the mortgage line, increases premiums in a stable fashion. We would like to highlight that 22.9%. Now, Assistance, although it is not totally represented here, was a higher growth of 116% regarding the third quarter of 2022. This is an ever-growing curve since the Caixa Assistência, we've improved the Rapidex product.

Here, this is for lotteries, CAIXA Aqui , in monthly, semestral, and yearly. This is one of the products where Caixa Seguridade is proud of its adherence to the public and the targets, its controlling company. Now, also, Premium Bonds, we had over BRL 406 million. This is a growth of over 45% vis-a-vis the same period last year. The highlight is the increase of funding on a monthly basis when we compare it to the same period last year. Now it's 94%. Now, here in credit letter, we have BRL 617 million growth, a growth of 203% vis-a-vis the same period, 2022, an increase of 17.8% in credit letter. This in comparison to Q3 2022, almost BRL 4.5 billion.

These figures are totally aligned with the credit letters with. This is for the line of resources collected and administration rates after the formation of the credit letter group, and we've had a great help from our credit letter that is innovative and new product. Now, also, we had BRL 150 billion reserves in private pension. This is a growth of over 15% vis-a-vis the same period last year. This is an upticking curve. Our negative, we have BRL 1.7 billion of net funding, especially when we compare it to the past quarter. This is when we compare it to other funding products of the, of the company. On Slide six, you have the financial performance of the quarter.

The operating revenue represented a growth of 15% in comparison to the same period last year, BRL 1.2 billion. Here we have equity results that represented 57%, a growth of 35% vis-a-vis the same period of 2022. This improvement in performance is financial and operating. We would like to highlight consortium, life, and residence. This is. We had an all-time high recurring net income of BRL 970 million, a growth of 20% compared to the same period of 2022. Now, the net profit represented a growth of 28.7% from the nine monnths of last year. The ROI was 50.4%, exceeding 5 percentage points, the same thing registered in 2022. This is an additional excellence.

Here we have the ROE and the distribution of dividends, and here we can see BRL 1.5 billion paid on November 6th. ROE would grow 62%, which represent an increase of seven percentage points when we compare it to the second quarter of 2023, a new historic level for Caixa Seguridade. Eduardo Oliveira will continue with the presentation with the financial and commercial highlights of this third quarter.

Eduardo Costa Oliveira
Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Caixa Seguridade

Thank you, Felipe. Good afternoon to everyone. I will present, with more details, the commercial performance, the financial performance, and operating. Now, commercial performance and risk that represent an improvement throughout the year. A growth in premium in all areas when we compare Q3 to Q2 of 2023.

On a quarterly basis, we would like to highlight Life and Home, that presented better premiums in addition to assistance, which the growth, although this, this is less, the absolute amount is growing to the other areas. Now, in credit life, this is a reflection of the concentration of operations to PRONAMPE in 2022. As explained, the performance of credit life is directly influenced by the credit origination volume in the year. Year to date, risk as a whole was 4.6% in the period. Now, regarding premiums earned, all the insurance segments grew when we compare 2022 and 2023, and also comparison of Q3. When we compare it to Q2 of 2023, the growth was sensitized. This is for premiums not gained. Regarding the risk business, we continue to the operating risk business. Now, the risk.

Now, the loss ratio shows the improvement of the indicator when we compare it to the last quarter, to the same quarter in 2022, and we see Home and Credit Life. And we've had a slight improvement regarding indicator of the second semester. The Combined Ratio remained at levels from the past, reflecting the negotiated condition with JVs and the mix of products. With this, the operating index showed a growth of 2.2% regarding the same period of 2022, and a drop of 1.1% in comparison to the past semester. Year to date, there is a growth of 16.6%. In 2023, represent 48% of the total operating margin amongst all the business of the company.

When we see the total insurance operating factor, House has 44%, followed by 26 Credit and residential, 9%. Now, on slide 10, we have the commercial performance for accumulation business. Now, this quarter, private pension influences total funding impacted by other funding products because it represents 87% of the total contribution as a complement of credit letters. Now, premium bonds, we improved this for individuals for the high-yield fund, for the private, public, and multi-management fund, for private and high-income customers. And here, this facilitates contracting this 100% digitally. There are new navigation tools to improve the digital experience of our customers.

Now, here, Credit letter, it was over BRL 4 billion in sales, which is our new company dedicated to this segment that has only been operating two years and is providing us these type of highlight. Now, also for Credit letter, we have a good funding in August, especially when we launched the second edition of the winner of the special edition. Now, to 11, here we have in details the accumulation business per segment. Here we can see on the left, the gross private pension dropped 22.7% in comparison to the same quarter last year, still impacted by the credit letter products. As we mentioned, we would like to highlight that this has recovered throughout 2023. Net funding registered a volume of BRL 1.7 billion.

Now, the reserves, around BRL 150 billion, represented a growth of 15% during the past year. On the chart, you can see the drop of average administration rate because of lower allocation and conservative funds that have a lower administrative management fee. With the current scenario of the CDI drop, we expect a stabilization of the average management rate, as more sophisticated funds increase. Now, also, premium bonds are stable. Here we have an increase of 45.8% vis-a-vis the same quarter last year, and 30.5% when we compare it to the second quarter this year. That shows the excellent performance of the period. During this quarter, 53.8% of the funds were originated by a single monthly payment, and the rest, single payment. The reserves of premium bonds reached BRL 1.3 billion.

This is a yearly growth of 157.4%. Now, Credit letters registered a volume of BRL 11.5 billion during the first nine months of 2023. This is a growth of almost 34% vis-a-vis the same period of 2022. And the residential credit letters grew 38.4%, and vehicles, 32.1% among periods. This way, the Credit letter inventory totaled BRL 17.8 billion, and 2/3 are Credit letters of mortgage, and the rest would be to buy cars. Now, going to see the group vision, the operating revenue grew in all segments, which ended in a positive result, 25.5% above vis-a-vis 2022, and 11.8% in comparison to Q2 of 2023. Now, 36.8% of growth during the first nine months of the years.

Here, private pension. Here we can see management rates and VGR revenues to grow. The business, the operating margin of Q3 grew 33.4% when we compare it to the same quarter of 2022, and also 16.9% vis-a-vis Q2 of 2023, presenting an increase in all the segments. Year to date, the growth was 28.8%. This is 1.6 billion BRL, which is 24% of the operating margin, total operating margin. Now, on slide 13, we will talk about the distribution business. Now, regarding brokerage revenue, we would like to highlight premium bonds of growth of 48%, and also credit letter when we compare it to the same period last year.

Now, the drop of total revenue of 4.2% reflects the performance of Credit letters that was benefited on Q3 of last year by the great amount of Credit to companies that came from PRONAMPE. During this quarter, the total of commissions paid by the Bank, 72%, represent the gross margin of the broker, while 18% were designated to pay premium fees and 10% of cash services, considering in this managerial calculus, Live Credit Letters and Premium Bonds, while in the other areas, the brokerage transfers to cash, the operating margin of BRL 406.7 million grew 4.1% vis-a-vis the last semester and dropped 6.9% vis-a-vis the same quarter of 2022, highlighting insurance in the margin, which is 82%.

In year to date, the margin grew almost 12% vis-a-vis 2022, which shows the importance of 28% of the total margin in all the company's businesses. On slide 14, here we have operating factors which are relevant, that are grouped here between holding and the other JVs and the proportionality. Starting by the administrative expense ratio, that in the quarter represented the best indicator in a drop of 0.6 percentage points, now when we compare it to the same quarter of 2022, is stabilized strength, that in new partnership, the indicator was impacted in 2022 by a positive, non-recurring effect. What we see during this quarter is sustainable and reflects the recurring activities of the company. Now, combined, we can see an increase of insurance revenues in redit letters and a drop of insurance, a a loss ratio. And here we have-

Here, the broadened, the expanded combined duration presented an improvement of 6.3 percentage points when we compare it to the same quarter last year, and 1.4 percentage points vis-à-vis the second quarter this year, reflecting the good group financial result of the quarter, as you can see in all the administrative, financial, and administrative areas. We end with slide 15, where we have the operating and financial result, and here we can see the Caixa Seguridade. Here we have a nominal growth of almost 50%, 44.8%, in comparison to the same period, 2022. This is a combination of the improvement in revenue and volume invested. This way, the financial result was responsible for 33% of the net recurring profit year to date.

The financial result grew 5.9 percentage points vis-a-vis the operational between 2022. Here, reflecting better profitability from our portfolio. On the right, we have the grouped view. In addition to the portfolio, we have the portfolio of each one of the investees. Now, September grew 13.9% vis-a-vis September 2022, and 8.5% in comparison of June 2023, 12.3%. 47% were in post-fixed bonds, 36 in pre, 10 in inflation, and 10 in other type of funds. And in group, the total profitability was 11.2%, 1.5 percentage points above September 2022, which corresponds to 83.1% of the CDI. So with this, I close the presentation of the performance, financial performance of 2023. So now we will initiate the Q and A session for analysts.

Operator

Should you wish to pose a question, please press the button reaction, and then raise your hand. If your answer is answered, you can leave and lower your hand. Should you wish to pose a question via Zoom, please place your name and the name of your company before answering your question. Here, William Barranjard from Itaú BBA.

William Barranjard
Senior Equity Analyst, Itau BBA

Good afternoon, Felipe, Eduardo. Thank you very much for taking questions, and congratulations for your results. It's difficult to ask questions. I would like to start by private pension and credit. It will be easier to compare them year-on-year, because last year we had a complicated quarter. I would like to know: How can we see the evolution of the product?

And what are your views regarding these products, if contribution, the competition still, impacts when we think about private pension, if, if Caixa has appetite for these type of products? I would like to know how you see these products for Q4 in the second quarter. Second question regarding private pension, the index of rescue. I would like to know if this 3%, if we will—there will be a stabilization.

Eduardo Costa Oliveira
Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Caixa Seguridade

Good afternoon, William. We thank you. It always good. As you said, we had no non-recurring F, and all result is explained by the operation. It reflects the operational dynamic and shows what we're saying. We've been saying during some quarters regarding our focus here in the company, and also the effort made by the Caixa network and our JVs pursuing greater operating efficiency.

When we talk about credit lines, you are right. Yes, the comparison of credit of Q3 2022 and Q3 2023 is damaged by an atypical strong base. This, what we showed here, was extremely positive. And now credit life, of course, continues the dynamic of commercial credit and is linked with commercial credit at a weaker level. This is a result of high interest rates. Although they're dropping, the Caixa distribution networks and the agencies or branches, these are making a great effort to leverage the opportunities that exist t o sell credit life, showing the customers the advantages and the security of the products, especially commercial customers. So although the credit volume has been slightly below during this period, we've made a great effort, and the penetration of new credits have increased, and therefore, this behavior has improved.

Our expectation is positive for the credit life product. We believe that as Caixa drops, the demand for credit will recover, and as a consequence, this will provide us a positive effect to write premiums to credit life. Now, here we can see something that happened in the bank since last year. As of next quarter, this comparison will be easier to see. And the strategy of the bank of focusing in other funding products, well, it continues, but not as intense. The bank is concerned with private pension products, which makes sense for the Caixa customer. This product complements the customer's income in the future. It's like savings, right? So we do understand that the expectation is positive here.

This interest rate cycle, as Caixa drops, doesn't only help credit, but helps the competitiveness of other funding products and improves the dynamic of premium bond. We're optimistic for next year regarding these two products. You asked about the redemption rate in private pensions. As we already announced in other earnings results calls, well, we focus on our branches to retain private pension. When we identify with the bank that to raise new funds is complicated, we started retaining these reserves that were already in the company. So we do understand that this better redemption ratio reflects our effort, and we want to continue this way from here on. To improve much more, it's difficult, William, because there are a number of components that take you to redeem private pensions.

Some are exogenous. They depend on the customer needs that are not impacted by a great effort to maintain these reserves, and we believe that the level that has been reached, it is a positive level, and I believe that it will be difficult to improve it more.

William Barranjard
Senior Equity Analyst, Itau BBA

Thank you, Edu. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question from Kaio Prato, UBS.

Kaio Prato
Research Analyst, UBS

Good afternoon, Felipe, Edu. Thank you for taking my question. Mine is about the commercial area, your relationship with Caixa. I want to better understand, if you could elaborate on the representation of insurance products and the metrics of the Caixa rise, if this has changed. And also from here on, I would like your prospects, especially now with the change of the controlling company. What are the discussions here, if it can be reviewed again or not, and when can we see this? And just to complete the second part of your question, how have these discussions affected your budget discussions for 2024?

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Thank you for your interest. Well, now, regarding the commercial area, when we see about the importance of Caixa Seguridade portfolio, at least since March up till the date, this hasn't changed a lot. CAIXA continues with Caixa Seguridade as one of, one of its priorities and a result driver. This is what Caixa Seguridade is for the conglomerate, and when we talk about the importance of the products, they have been stable, the weight. We have constant discussions regarding this matter. Yes, and when it's possible, we try to increase our highlight, and we know that our products compete with other Caixa products.

But these products are extremely highlighted on the CAIXA counter from the social and commercial perspective. Now, changes, well, we see that the past management was valuing the conglomerate, and the current management follows this line. There have been no changes. Yes, we've had some conversations. Nonetheless, we believe that we are constantly being valued, and we believe that we will be even more valued. It is a good moment to gain more space so that we can reap better opportunities. And as I said, the change of management has impacted positively. I can't say that it's impacted a lot because we have a constant, which is excellent. Now, our budget for 2024, Edu can talk more about this, but we've had internal discussions about our budget.

Eduardo Costa Oliveira
Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Caixa Seguridade

The results, the results show us that we are on the right path. This isn't something that concerns us, and the budget of 2024 is aligned with 2022, 2023. Felipe already answered all your points raised regarding the budget for next year. What is the relevance and the synergy before the performance? Seguridade, in the day by day of the bank, is direct. All the discussions and how we work, and how we see our budget next year, it's intrinsically related to the bank's strategies, regardless of the weight in the target system of the bank. Caixa Seguridade works with the bank using a number of tools that encourage sales in addition to the target system. When I spoke about the distribution business, I talked about awards. This is managed by Caixa Seguridade together with CAIXA. So we can achieve more value from the Seguridade business.

The budget next year probably will take into account all of these aspects and our positive expectation for the Seguridade business, and all the strategies of the bank, be it relationship with the customer, be it with the increase of results regarding the commercial verticals of the country.

Operator

Here we have Antonio from Bank of America.

Speaker 8

Good afternoon. Thank you for your time, and congratulations for the results. My question, first, a follow-up to Kaio's question: You said that you could have a positive margin, and they wouldn't be disruptive for your business. If you could give us, give us a deep dive and to better elaborate on what positive or negative impact could you feel from the new vice presidencies and the strategy? Could you elaborate on 2024? What are the main trends that you see in terms of premiums, loss, loss ratios, et cetera?

Eduardo Costa Oliveira
Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Caixa Seguridade

Well, Felipe elaborated on changes. Something that we highlight when we talk about possible changes is that we can be influenced by political matters. But what we always say is that the strategy of Caixa Seguridade is stable. A strategy, it had, was created years ago. It has been extremely successful. Caixa Seguridade contributes more and more with the result of the bank, and leverages the resources for public policies, and to fulfill the bank's mission as it is a state, a state 100% bank, which is very important for Brazilian society. Regarding this point, yes, changes may take place. It wouldn't be strange if we would see changes, but the performance aiming at value creation and synergy together with the bank strategy will always remain.

There are a number of products that complement the bank's strategy. Although the bank wants, may, can follow a path for one side and the other, Caixa Seguridade can adapt and contribute the best way possible for in value generation and funding that will go to CAIXA as the main shareholder. Now, regarding 2024, we do not disclose guidances, but we do believe is the performance of this quarter is a good starting point for projections for the upcoming quarters, with this caveat of these two products, that was Credit Life and Private Pension. They are aligned with the continuous drop of the Selic rate. The Selic drop creates a positive dynamic for the insurance vertical, as well as for private pension because it increases the competitiveness of the product. These elements will be stronger next year, and this will be positive for the company's results.

Speaker 8

Thank you. Here we have a question, now the distribution of dividends. Will you change the payout period? How does the agribusiness fit inside the context of Caixa Seguridade?

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

We do not have the name of the investor. No, the question regarding dividends is recurrent. In all, practically all our earnings calls, we've talked about this, and as we've mentioned in the past, in the company, it is clear regarding how often we distribute dividends and how relevant it is for shareholders, and we see this very sternly in the company, and we're finding alternatives to increase the amount of dividends that we pay out. As I've said in other calls, we believe that this is possible, but it will depend in a number of approvals in different levels of our governance, so this can be approved. This is underway.

We still haven't finalized this process, and the expectation of enabling this for next year is still valid. Now, regarding agro, well, this is connected to Kaio and Antonio's question. Regardless of strategy of the bank and where it prioritizes its effort, here we are prepared to adapt and to leverage these opportunities the best way possible. Agribusiness, the rural segment, is a highly relevant segment in the country, and it has increasing its relevance within the credit portfolio and the customer strategy. Caixa Seguridade has been working together with the bank to leverage all the opportunities that come from this strategy, which is focused on the agribusiness. This is a key segment for us. It's a segment that that demands strong relationship with customers and provides us a great amount of opportunity, and we do want to leverage these opportunities.

Operator

The next question from Reinaldo Veríssimo , an investor.

Reinaldo Veríssimo
Investor, Caixa Seguridade

Congratulations, but can you calculate how much will be affected in profit when you have a drop of 100 basis points in the Selic?

Eduardo Costa Oliveira
Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Caixa Seguridade

This is very complex because, as I answered in my past in the past questions, the change of Selic affects us in a number of ways. On one side, the financial result in post-fixed bonds connected, pegged to the Selic, and we have a lower financial result. A drop in Selic also drives our operating result. This means drops in Selic result to drop the rates collected in credit, and this increases the opportunity of cross-selling products like credit, life, mortgage. So this is the. I can't say the effect in the Selic, only it. Here, well, this doesn't show the positive side.

Our portfolio, as we showed in our presentation, has a part that is post-fixed, so we still. The drop in the Selic rate may diminish the financial result, although slightly lower when we compare it to other investments that are prefixed investments.

Operator

Now, Vinicius Araújo, the investor, would like to know about the excess of capital in the company's structure, if it will drop, and where could this capital go?

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Well, this question at Seguridade, Caixa Seguridade at the holding level, there is no capital requirement. Yes, we do have this in the insurance companies that have to meet the capital demand established by SUSEP. And in this line, we maintain a constant contact with our partners. If there is an excess of capital, what is relevant here and what draws our attention is that our dividend strategy, that is extremely aggressive.

We distribute around 90% of our result as payout. The assumption is that the capital structure of our JVs is robust, and we will not need no more capital investments to support this growth. To discuss if there is an excess of capital or not, this will always go hand in hand with our dividend distribution. If we decide to diminish the capital of these JVs as a consequence, well, perhaps we will have to reduce in a second moment the reduction of a payout. We can't see this isolated. Perhaps a more comfortable capital situation allows us to grow in the mid and long run without having to invest.

So this subject is seen and discussed internally and constantly, and if in a given moment we understand together with our partners that there is an excess of capital and that this capital isn't necessary to support the company's growth, yes, we can reduce the amount of capital in the JVs and a potential increase of dividend payout.

Operator

The next question from Gildo Araújo .

Speaker 7

Good afternoon. What is the penetration rate of the company in Caixa Econômica customer? What percentage of Caixa Econômica customers have insurance products from Caixa Seguros?

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Good afternoon. This information is public. We disclose the penetration of our customer base in the institutional presentation of our sites, and it varies from product to prod-- The product with greatest penetration when we see individuals are credit, life, and home, where we have around 3% of Caixa products with these products.

Oh, I mean, they bought these products and the other products, life, residential and private pension, vary 1%. Penetration is low. We know that there is space to improve this penetration, and this is one of the main arguments and reasons why our strategy is focused on bancassurance. We do understand that to better leverage the Caixa customer base, offer our products to show the value proposition of each one of our products to the Caixa customers, much more effective than just working outside of the Caixa counter. Well, as I said, this varies between 1% and 3%, according to the product. And products with greater penetration, there is still room for improvement in terms of penetration.

Operator

Next question from Reinaldo Dantas:

Speaker 7

The point of sales of o Loterias Caixa could they be used to sell premium bond products from Caixa Seguridade?

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Well, I have the feeling that you work here, right? Incredible, your synergy of thought with ours. And I'm not talking about the lottery, I'm talking about the mindset of Caixa Seguridade to adapt each product to the right channel, according to the need, to income range, and product that will match more the interests of the customer. Not only lottery, but also our sales channels that we explore here in Caixa. Caixa Seguridade wants to broaden more and more and gear this according to something that matches better the customer needs. There are studies not only for the lotteries, but other channels, and thank you very much for your question.

Operator

So the Q and A session has come to an end. We would like to give the floor to Mr. Felipe Mattos for his final remarks.

Felipe Montenegro Mattos
CEO, Caixa Seguridade

Thank you very much for your interest for being here this afternoon. This is a successful case. It's an important case. It's an important arm of Caixa Econômica. It knows how to explore the Caixa channels, and I would like to thank all the team of Caixa Seguridade, of all the conglomerate companies, all partners that sell a Caixa Seguridade product. I would like to highlight the importance of Caixa. They are always aligned, and we will always try to maintain the stability of a company. Although it's a new company, it's a major player in the market, and by the end of the year, we want to present even more sounder results.

Operator

Thank you very much for everyone that participated. The Caixa Seguridade video conference call has come to an end. We thank all of you for your participation, and have a good afternoon.

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